The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: July 8th

Episode Date: July 8, 2022

President Biden has exchanged letters with the WNBA all-star, who is behind bars in Russia. It's the latest example of the thorny politics surrounding Americans jailed abroad.And the president will take his first trip to the Middle East next week, visiting Israel and Saudi Arabia. His administration has embraced the success of the Abraham Accords, an agreement brokered during the Trump administration to better integrate Israel with its neighbors in the region.This episode: political correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben, Moscow correspondent Charles Maynes, White House correspondent Asma Khalid, and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Kabret, and I just got to Sydney, Australia from DC after two cancelled flights and a total of 96 hours traveling. This podcast was recorded at 1.10pm Eastern Daylight Time on Friday, July 8th, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll be doing the time difference math to figure out how many NPR Politics episodes I'm behind. Okay, here's the show. Well, in 96 hours, you could listen to a lot of NPR politics podcasts, so I assume he's not too far behind anymore. So much time to catch up. Hey there, it is the NPR politics podcast. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover politics. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent.

And today on the podcast, we are talking about Brittany Griner's detention. Bring Brittany home! Bring Brittany home! Bring her home! Bring her home! She's a WNBA all-star and Olympic gold medalist. And like many in the WNBA, where she doesn't make as much as a man in the NBA would, she plays abroad in the offseason to make where she doesn't make as much as a man in the NBA would, she plays abroad in the offseason to make money in places like Russia. Brittany Greiner should be with her teammates this week, preparing for the start of the new season. Instead, the seven-time All-Star Center for the Phoenix Mercury has been in Russian custody. Greiner was detained in a Russian

airport on February 17th, with authorities alleging she had cannabis oil in her luggage. The U.S. says she is being wrongfully detained, and if found guilty, she could be sentenced to 10 years in prison. As the diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Russia crumble, a WNBA star is caught in the middle. Her supporters and coach say there's a double standard in how her case is being handled. If it was a Ronnie, it'd be home, right? And her wife, Sherelle Greiner, has pleaded with President Biden and the State Department to do more. I will not be quiet anymore because being quiet, they are not moving. They are not doing anything. Last week, Greiner wrote a letter to Biden from jail asking him not to forget about her. As I sit here in a Russian prison alone with my thoughts and without the protection of my

wife, my family, friends, Olympic jersey, or any accomplishments, I'm terrified I might be here forever. And Thursday, Greiner pled guilty to the charges in a Russian courtroom. The Kremlin is reportedly interested in swapping her for a Russian arms dealer held in the U.S. NPR's own Charles Maines is here to talk about it from Moscow. Hey, Charles. Hey there. So let's start with Brittany Greiner's guilty plea. How did she explain it?

And also, now that she's pled guilty, what happens next with the trial? Yeah, you know, this came at day two, actually at the end of day two of her trial. You know, I was actually there in a small courtroom, a very hot courtroom, in fact, in the summertime without air conditioning. Greiner was in this cage in the corner, and the day was really focused on the prosecution. They presented witnesses and evidence, all pointing to this idea that Greiner had been indeed found with these vape cartridges that contained cannabis oil. Now, as the prosecution was finishing up, Greiner said she had a statement to make. She had to make it to the judge.

She said, in fact, she was pleading guilty to possessing these vape pens with hash oil, but she said she didn't intend to break the Russian law. She said it was an accident. She was in a rush to pack her bags, and the rest just kind of happened. Now, she promised to go into this in more detail later. She has a next hearing on the 14th of July, so next week.

But still, it was quite a surprise end to the day's hearing. And this plea, this guilty plea, came against the backdrop of her writing this letter to President Biden, a really heartfelt letter begging for help. And I understand that the U.S. had a representative present at the trial. So what was that representative there to do? Actually, they had a whole team there. There were three U.S. embassy officials representative present at the trial. So what was that representative there to do? Actually, they had a whole team there. There were three U.S. embassy officials in the courtroom with me. There was also some other embassy officials out in the hallway, which is saying a lot,

given that the U.S. embassy has been really hollowed out from these tit-for-tat expulsions with Russia over the past few years. But they've been saying that, you know, essentially freeing detained Americans is one of their real primary objectives these days with what their avenues of work. But we heard afterwards from Elizabeth Rood, she's the deputy chief of mission at the embassy, who said not only, she said, in fact, she delivered a letter from Biden to Greiner ahead of this hearing and that Greiner had a chance to read it. Now, we don't know the contents of it, but was that a factor in her decision to plead guilty? Possibly. Her lawyer said she'd already made up her mind,

but the fact that she gets a letter from the President of the United States, you know, it speaks to the political overtones of this trial and possibly her decision to speed this trial along by pleading guilty. So clearly the hope here in the U.S. is that Brittany Greiner is released. What are the possible avenues for that? What do you know about this, Domenico? Well, you know, there's a long history of the United States trying to get, you know, citizens out of countries with authoritarian leaders to varying degrees of success. I mean, we've seen Bill Clinton have to be an envoy to go to North Korea to try to get people out. Bill Richardson, the former governor of New Mexico, has kind of made a cottage industry of this.

And there's always usually two things that other countries want or three things, notoriety to be able to be seen and be on the same level as the United States, money or a prisoner swap. And in this case, we know that there's a prisoner swap that Russia is potentially interested in. But you're also talking about a climate that's really difficult for the State Department and negotiators to negotiate in, because of Russia's involvement in Ukraine right now. Yeah, you know, I mean, I just to build on this point, I mean, I think that, you know, we essentially, we don't know if she'll be released. She faces up to 10 years in jail for this. On the legal front, you know, her lawyers say, look, we think the judge should take her honesty into account come sentencing time. It's not unheard of to get time served, but very unlikely, as has been pointed out, you know, on the political front, Russia has made no secret that there might be something to talk about here, a prisoner swap, a trade. But for that, the trial has to be completed. That's what they've been saying. So, you know, arguably, this was Greiner betting on both, maybe smartly so. In April, Trevor Reed, a former U.S. Marine, who was also, that the U.S. also

said was wrongfully detained and sentenced in a Russian prison. You know, he got out in a prisoner swap with Russia that the White House engineered. So no surprise here, Griner's supporters and family want the same. And it's understandable that Griner's family, Coach, are frustrated, but this is a difficult situation. And I don't think, you know, it's entirely fair to say that, you know, the White House would be working harder if it was LeBron James. You know, I think that they have a lot of people throughout the world who the White House and the State Department are trying to get out of prisons. You know, you could argue that, I think, as you mentioned earlier, that, you know, if Greiner was LeBron James, LeBron James would have never been in Russia in the first place because he makes enough money where he wouldn't have to try to play in the offseason in another country to get the kind of money that the Russian professional teams were willing to pay Greiner.

Let's end on a couple of political questions, this being the politics podcast. Let's talk about global politics first. This is all obviously more complicated, as Domenico mentioned earlier, given the political situation with Russia and its military campaign in Ukraine the Kremlin's decision to attack its neighbor. Greiner's detention came just days before Vladimir Putin gave the order to send Russian troops in. So was Greiner a victim of bad judgment, bad luck and bad timing? Possibly. Was this a setup? You know, we just don't know for sure. But Greiner seems to have made a calculated decision that, you know, her chances of getting out of this mess are stronger by betting on some kind of political deal. Domenico, I want to ask you about the political situation that this puts Biden in, because this is covered in all kinds of media.

It's followed even by people who don't really follow politics. And Biden is already deeply unpopular. So politically, is this a big deal for him or is it just overshadowed by inflation and the fight over abortion rights? You know, look, it's a tricky situation for President Biden. He's already facing tons of pressure on all kinds of other issues, whether it's high gas prices, high inflation. But I think that the pressure now, the public pressure that's being put on the White House to do more or to talk about the steps that they're taking certainly raises the stakes for Biden. And, you know, Biden's in a tough spot here because the options for getting an American out in a place like this, they're not very palatable politically either.

I mean, think about the potential, as some have reported on the U.S. swapping Greiner for a dangerous arms dealer, for example, that the U.S. is holding. All right. Charles Maines, thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Time for a quick break. And when we come back, previewing the president's Saudi trip. And we are back with NPR White House correspondent Asma Khalid. Hey, Asma. Hey there, Danielle. And President Biden will be traveling to Israel and Saudi Arabia next week, and you will be going with him. It is his first trip to the Middle East since entering the White House.

So, Asma, tell us before you go, what is Biden hoping to accomplish on this trip? You know, Danielle, I would say the experts I speak with outline kind of fairly modest goals for the president in terms of his Middle East policy. They just basically say that there's a lot of pragmatism here, that the president wants a secure, stable Middle East that is not going to erupt in violence. And, you know, he doesn't have these sort of grand ambitions of brokering a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This is really just about trying to ensure that conflict does not erupt from the region. And, you know, Danielle, one of the things I've been struck by is that this president has tried very diligently to create a departure from his predecessor, from the former President Donald Trump.

But when we look at his Middle East policy, there's at least one pillar, something called the Abraham Accords that President Biden and his team are embracing. And, you know, I'm sure we can talk a lot more about this, but I've just been struck by the fact that it's a real continuation from what we saw under the former president. Right. And there's not a lot that Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump agree on. So remind us, what are the Abraham Accords? So you may recall back in late 2020, this was kind of in the midst of the 2020 presidential election campaign, President Trump invited the leaders of Israel, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates to the White House. And he had this celebration where he said it was going to be the dawn of a new Middle East. And essentially, he helped broker

a deal between Israel and some Arab nations. And I should point out the reason that this was rather monumental is that no Arab countries had formed a deal with Israel in, I believe, 26 years. And really, the consensus at that time was that Arab countries said that they would not come to the table, they would not negotiate with Israel until an independent Palestinian state was created. And so you basically had these two issues, Arab-Israeli conflict and then Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that were always tied together. And what we saw with the Abraham Accords was that there was a rupture in these two. And, you know, I think that what we're seeing from the Biden administration now is a realization that like, hey, we can't solve one of these problems, but maybe we could continue to make inroads in creating a more sort of stable Middle East, helping Israel form might at this point actually be the furthest away

from talking about or focusing on the Middle East or the peace process, you know, than we have been for the better part of half a century, really. And I think that's really notable considering 9-11, you know, and where we've gone in the last 20 years or so. Biden, somebody who's been around a long time, he was chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. You know, he went around the world as vice president. I wonder, as President Asma, are you getting any sense from him or from the White House or people around him on what his Mideast doctrine kind of is or shaping up to be? You know, the sense I get, Domenico, is that there are fairly modest expectations of this trip.

I do get the sense that we'll have a clearer articulation of what exactly his Middle East vision is on this trip. But, you know, thus far, we haven't seen any big departures from how President Trump viewed the region. You know, there was talk at the outset from President Biden of trying to make Saudi Arabia into a pariah, you know, because the Saudi government essentially orchestrated the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, this journalist who was, you know, writing opinion pieces for The Washington

Post. And really, there was a big outcry here in the United States, I would say, about why exactly the United States has been so chummy with Saudi Arabia for all these years. And I don't know, maybe there was an expectation at the outset of Biden's presidency that things would be different. But, you know, by all accounts, things are not going to be different. The president intends to go to Saudi Arabia. He will have a bilateral meeting with the king of Saudi Arabia. And on the king's leadership team is MBS, Mohammed bin Salman, the guy who U.S. intelligence agencies say was behind that killing of Jamal Khashoggi. And, you know, I am so curious how that's going to play

out. You know, are we going to see President Biden, say, shake hands with MBS? And I don't know how it's all going to play out. But really, we don't see that much of a change thus far from what we're going to anticipate on this Biden trip to Saudi Arabia. You know, Asma, we talked earlier about the Abraham Accords, one policy that Trump put in place and that Biden has held on to. But we should say that their foreign policy isn't a total overlapping Venn diagram. There is a big area of departure from Trump, for example, which is Biden's attitude towards the Palestinians. What does that look like?

You know, that is very true, Danielle. And a couple people I spoke to said that at least rhetorically, you hear that from this administration. You hear from, you know, for example, Biden's Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who will say that, yes, they want to expand the Abraham Accords. They'd like to deepen these relationships. You know, but often in sort of the next breath, you'll hear him say that they have to be clear that these regional peace agreements are not a substitute for progress between Palestinians and Israelis. So there is this recognition that one is not a substitute for the other. I do think in the days of Donald Trump, there was this belief, you know, Donald Trump really believed in maximum pressure. He believed

in sort of squeezing the Iranians. I think he thought similarly that he could kind of marginalize the Palestinians and take away any sort of leverage they have and force them to the negotiating table by working on all these deals around them. You get the sense from the Biden White House that there is a clear vision that that's not going to be possible. And so on this trip to Israel, President Biden does intend to visit with Palestinians and with the leadership of the Palestinian Authority. Well, this is going to be politically sensitive, right? This is going to be the first trip since an Al Jazeera journalist with American citizenship was shot and killed. And U.S. authorities found that it was likely an Israeli soldier who shot her, but they found no reason to believe that it was intentional, we should say.

And both Israelis and the Palestinians dispute that. Asma, how does all of that factor into this? Oh, gosh. I mean, I think it'll just make for a really kind Palestinian journalist is something that we've seen a number of U.S. media outlets investigate and do their own analysis on. And it does come back pretty conclusively in sort of the media analysis that we've seen to point fingers at Israeli forces. We didn't see that sort of conclusive evidence from what the United States government is saying. But I will say, Danielle, I think broadly, there is this sense when I talk to experts that Biden's Middle East policy, one guy actually told me he described it as being inertia, that it's not necessarily that they agree with everything that Trump put in place. But there's this sense of just a continuation with

what President Trump put in place, because they're more eager to focus on China or Russia, even, you know, aspects of rebuilding the NATO alliance, that the Middle East is just a region that could be a problem, but they'd like to ensure it's not a problem. So there hasn't been a big departure broadly from Donald Trump's Middle East policy. And I mean, we could talk in more detail about that, but there's just sort of small nuggets of things that you notice, well, they haven't done this. You know, one expert brought up to me this idea of reopening a consulate for Palestinians in Jerusalem.

They haven't, you know, done anything like that. There's just sort of small details that Donald Trump took all throughout his tenure in office. And the Biden folks have not really fundamentally reshifted that, I should say, beyond the very important details you mentioned, which is reopening a diplomatic relationship with Palestinians. All right, final question. And I know this might be a bit of a non sequitur, but I want to ask about oil, because I think it's possible that here in the U.S. that Biden's trip to an oil rich place like Saudi Arabia at a time when gas prices are very high here, it's possible that plenty of Americans will perceive that that's what this trip is about.

So does this trip have anything to do with that? Well, President Biden himself has been asked that before, and he insists that it is not about oil. He insists it's about national security, about the Israeli-Saudi relationship. It's about peace in the region. You know, what I do hear from experts, Danielle, is that there's very little that President Biden would ultimately get from trying to pressure Saudi Arabia on this. And so I don't think there's a huge expectation that President Biden will go to Saudi Arabia and suddenly next week everybody's going to go to the pump and see their gas prices, you know, dip by 20 cents. So don't expect that. Yeah, I think that a lot of Americans, when they see the United States and Saudi Arabia,

which culturally are, you know, in a lot of ways polar opposites, that they see American president after American president talking to leaders who, frankly, run societies that are more closed off, that are more repressive, and they don't understand the link between the countries and why they would need to have such strong relationship, except for the fact that Saudi Arabia is such a big oil-producing state. But this trip is really not about that, despite the fact that the United States is dealing with, and the world by the way, dealing with high gas prices. It's much more complicated than that. All right, Asma, safe travels, but don't go yet, because

it's time for a quick break. And then we will come back for Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it's time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. This is the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop talking about, politics or otherwise. Asma, you're up first. What can't you let go of? All right. Well, I'm assuming most of the longtime listeners, I'm hoping you all know that here at NPR, we have this awesome place called the Tiny Desk Concert. Tiny Desk is back, and one of their first guests, I believe recently once they reopened, was Usher.

I hope you all know who Usher is. Domenico, I heard that your son doesn't really know who Usher was, and that was very horrifying to me. No, Jack knows who Usher is. He's just 12 and doesn't think he's that big a deal. He goes, you mean the guy from the 2010s who can dance? Like, I guess. Also, he's from earlier than that.

That's him. In case you all don't know, Usher is the guy from the 2010s who can dance. So he performed at the Tiny Desk concert. And there was this moment where he says the ad lib, watch this, from one of his songs. And he's kind of bouncing back and forth. And he moves his fingers in a peace sign over his eyes. You really need to actually see this. I don't feel like I'm doing justice to describing this. And it was this beautiful, hilarious moment that apparently social media also loved. And it has now been made into a meme. And I keep seeing it everywhere. In

fact, just today, I saw a Biden White House official tweet it out in relation to the latest jobs numbers. And I was like, wow, my life has gone full circle. I mean, I wish you all could see this. But if you do want to see it, I recommend you check it out for yourself. It is available, the Tiny Desk concert in full at NPR.org. That's a pretty good tease. And by the way, the videos are great. And, you know, this is like when I heard about that, I was like, this is the full like we are coming back kind great and you know this is like when i heard about that i was like this is

the full like we are coming back kind of you know covid storyline for me i was like wow you can get usher to tiny desk and they're back that means the world is back i happened to be in the building that day i did not get a spot at the tiny desk but i heard it from across the building. The cheers were so loud. It made me so happy. Like, all right, we're vaguely almost not quite, not nearly back to normal, but we're getting there. It reminds me of the 2010s when I used to be able to dance to Usher. The 2010s.

Also, I'm just saying, Usher is from earlier than that. Usher was around when I was in high school. All right, we're not talking about this. Domenico, what can't you let go of? Oh, I can't let go of Larry the Cat. Not that he would let you hold him or anything because he's apparently a great mouser. But Larry the Cat is a cat that is at 10 Downing Street. This week we had the news that Boris Johnson was resigning as prime minister after several cabinet members

resigned. And this cat has a fake or a parody Twitter account where he was basically clawing at Boris Johnson all week, if you will. And there was one MP who actually – a member of parliament who actually said that Larry the Cat would make a better prime minister than Boris Johnson. I mean at least he gets something done, right? I mean he's like the official mouser of 10 Downing Street. So I guess that's a positive thing. We just don't know what his – we don't know what his party is though. No, and he is – he's a positive thing. We just don't know what his party is, though. No, and, you know, he is, you know, he's a cat. Danielle, what can you not let go of?

Martha Stewart, icon. I already had Martha on the brain this week because I had listened to the latest episode of the You're Wrong About podcast, which is all about her and her going to prison for insider trading. You should listen to it. It's really good. But then there was a story that popped up on Mediaite. It was a clip of Martha on Chelsea Handler's podcast. And it is Martha talking about her dating life at her age.

I looked it up. Martha Stewart is 80. Is she single, by the way? Yes. She's telling Chelsea Handler about her dating life and how it's hard to find men, and all the men she finds are husbands of friends. And she refuses to be a homewrecker, but she, which, good for her, but she caps it off with this. That's where I meet men. They're all married to friends of mine or something like that. Well, it's very difficult because I think there are certain ages we go through where it's very tempting because you want to believe that, oh, maybe this relationship that they're in is temporary.

Or maybe they'll die. I always think, oh, gosh, why didn't that person just die? The wife. Not painfully, just die. Just slowly pass away. But it hasn't worked out. I wonder if one of those men she's talking about is Snoop Dogg. Because I don't know. One of the things that has been like a really trendy, just crazy thing that has made my mind sort of explode.

It's like just watching her and Snoop Dogg like talk about planting. Like they're both gardeners and like have this huge love for it. Watching her show him how to move a smaller plant to a bigger pot was really interesting, especially for someone with a brown thumb who does not know how to garden and doesn't like it. Yeah. No, they apparently have a really good rapport and they get along really well. Okay, but to be fair, isn't she like 80 years old? So I do feel like her saying that her friends die is like less morbid than if she was like 55. Still not appropriate socially, but you know. I'm just tickled by the woman who calmly

and politely tells you how to plant your tulip bulbs. Also saying, can't they just die? It just delighted me. All right. That is a wrap for today and a wrap on a very long week. Our executive producer is Mithoni Mathuri. Our editors are Eric McDaniel and Krishnadev Kalamar. Our producers are Lexi Schapittle, Casey Morrell, and Elena Moore. Our intern is Maya Rosenberg. And thanks to Brandon Carter. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover politics. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenica Montaner, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.