The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: June 10

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

The hearing documenting former President Trump's role in the January 6th riot was largely told through recorded clips. But Rep. Liz Cheney — a Republican from Wyoming and an ousted member of GOP leadership — also played a starring role. Why did she break with her Republican colleagues?And in California, progressive Democrats had setbacks in two high-profile elections — the LA mayoral primary and a recall election for the District Attorney in San Francisco.This episode: demographics and culture correspondent Danielle Kurtzleben, senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, congressional correspondent Deirdre Walsh, and KQED reporter Marisa Lagos.Support the show and unlock sponsor-free listening with a subscription to The NPR Politics Podcast Plus. Learn more at plus.npr.org/politics Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

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This podcast was recorded at 108 p.m. on June 10th, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but we will still be enjoying the first days of our new marriage. Okay, here's the show. That is so lovely. Happy wedding. I'm's the show. That is so lovely. Happy wedding. I'm imagining the view. Sounds like such a calming, wonderful thing. It's sweet that people think of us in those romantic moments.

I'm deeply touched. First thing I think of when I'm away from our politics podcast is, I'm thinking of everyone at work. All right, hey there. It is the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover demographics and culture. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And last night, you may have heard, there was the first hearing from the House Committee investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol. We did a full podcast wrapping that. You should definitely go listen. It is a great one. But Domenico, for folks who

haven't gotten the chance to listen to that excellent episode, let's do the CliffsNotes version real quick. What was some of the new information that was revealed that you think folks should know about? Yeah, the quick catch up, right? Because there was some new stuff. And in particular, this video footage that we saw from police body cameras, quote, BS, and he used the full word. He revealed that in his book, but it definitely carried some more weight seeing him say it on camera. We saw Ivanka Trump, President Trump's daughter, saying that she accepted what Barr had to say. We saw aides to the former president saying that he was told that he was going to lose, that he had lost the election, and a lawyer for the Trump campaign

saying that there was no evidence of widespread fraud. Lots and lots of things like this, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Right. And like you said, there were lots of clips of interviews with Trump's close advisers. There was that footage of the attack on the Capitol that no one outside the committee had seen before. All of that was cut together. There was a lot of just production done to boil this down and make the case clear and simple. I'm wondering, Deirdre, how effective do you feel that that case was? I feel like they did make a very effective case. You know, this was their opening argument.

And I think they sort of broke format for a traditional congressional hearing where you hear like opening statements from both members and then all the other members get their five minutes. What they did was they gave the chair, Benny Thompson, and the vice chair, Liz Cheney, a lot of time to walk through the evidence and to tease what's coming. And I think it was a very methodical and understandable presentation. Liz Cheney, in particular, really kind of was the star of the show last night. You know, she was methodical, she was cogent, she was calm, right? I mean, I think tone is a big thing when it comes to a lot of these hearings. And they really were taking pains to try to pick out people in the audience at home who essentially could be persuaded by what they're seeing or hearing here and doing it in a way that they felt was unimpeachable with unimpeachable primary source evidence. Right. Well, let's zoom in on Wyoming Republican Liz Cheney, because like you said, Deirdre, she really was front and center last night. And also, Deirdre, you just finished a profile of her, which people should definitely go and listen to. Because what you got in there is not just that Cheney has gotten attention for sustained criticism of Donald Trump's attacks on democracy.

But also, you reported on her role on January 6th itself, her role in making sure the votes were counted. Tell us about that. Right. Maryland Democrat Jamie Raskin, who's a member of the panel, could not be more of an ideological opposite from Liz Cheney, but they've become close friends. And on the day of the insurrection, Raskin was getting texts on his phone once protesters had breached the Capitol. And he walked across the House floor that day and showed the text to Liz Cheney. She was actually the first person that I went to when someone texted me a photo of the insurrectionist who had entered the building brandishing a Confederate battle flag. And I crossed the aisle and I said, Liz, look, it looks like we're under new management here.

And he said, you know, hours later, when all of the House members were huddled in a secure location, trying to figure out what to do and was it safe to come back? And, you know, what should they do about resuming their duty, Liz Cheney, who was then the number three House Republican leader, stood up with the House Democratic Caucus Chairman Hakeem Jeffries and said, look, we got to go back and finish counting the votes. It's interesting because what they're agreeing on, Jamie Raskin and Liz Cheney, is essentially democracy first, right? And do you believe in this core tenets, especially of a peaceful transfer of power, counting the votes and upholding voting systems within the United States? I think then what's supposed to come of that is they can argue about policy after that.

I mean, again, these are people who don't agree on almost anything by policy, but there's a difference there. And when we talk about whether or not an audience can be swayed, I was watching in a split screen last night between all the other cable networks and Fox News, and Fox News did not carry this live. They were downplaying the findings. And I think it really contributes to one of the main problems in this country that people can't agree on a shared set of facts and are stuck to an ideology even if the facts are presented to them in as clear, cogent, and concise a way as possible. Right.

What we seem to be circling around here is this question of ideology, right? Because to make this a thousand percent clear for our listeners, Liz Cheney isn't working with Democrats on this because she's a moderate. She is not a moderate. She's a Republican from deeply red Wyoming. Like you said, Deirdre, she's the daughter of former Vice President Dick Cheney. She is a dyed-in-the-wool conservative Republican. But it seems like what you guys are saying, especially what Domenico was just saying, is that the fissure in the Republican Party between people like her and Adam Kinzinger versus Trump loyalists, it's not about moderate versus conservative. What is it then? Is it Trump versus non-Trump?

Is it institutionalists versus something else? How would you guys characterize this? What do you think, Deirdre? I mean, I think it has mostly to do with Trump. I mean, Cheney gave an interview last weekend to CBS and talked about her party being a cult, essentially a cult loyal to Donald Trump. She over and over again stresses her conservative credentials. I mean, her voting record, she voted 93% of the time with Trump's agenda. So she, and you know, the Democrats on the panel openly say, we don't really have anything in common with her. I mean, she's super conservative, and we're not. But we respect her skills as a lawyer. I talked to Zoe Lofgren about that, a Democrat on the panel who's also an attorney. But, you know, Cheney has been making

the case for months that her party needs to break away from former President Trump. And she had a real direct message to her Republican colleagues last night. Tonight, I say this to my Republican colleagues who are defending the indefensible. There will come a day when Donald Trump is gone, but your dishonor will remain. All right, final question here. I know that Liz Cheney has lost her leadership in the Republican Party for all of this, but how much danger is she in of losing her seat? She's in big danger of losing her seat. She's facing a primary challenge in August from Harriet Hageman in Wyoming. Trump endorsed Hageman traveled to Wyoming for a rally. As we've noted, you know, the state is deeply red

and has a very strong reservoir of support for Trump. Cheney's working hard to attract support. The rules in the primary mean that she can get support from Democrats to try to offset some of the Trump supporters who don't like her at all. But I just don't know about the math there. I think it's going to be a huge uphill burden for her. All right, we're going to leave it there. It is time for a quick break. We will be coming back in a second. Deirdre, don't go far because you will be coming back for Can't Let It Go. for the country's second biggest city, Los Angeles, and a recall election for a progressive district attorney in San Francisco. Watching all of these is Marisa Lagos of member station KQED, who is in San Francisco. Hey, Marisa. Hey, thanks for having me.

Yeah, so let's start with Los Angeles. There was a very expensive primary to succeed outgoing mayor Eric Garcetti, and it was largely seen as a race between moderate and more left-leaning platforms. We have heard this before in the Democratic Party. Tell us about the two candidates who made it to November's election. Yeah, well, topping this very large field of candidates was Rick Caruso. He is a billionaire developer. He developed the shopping mall The Grove, if you've ever been in Los Angeles. He spent $40 million to boost his name ID after re-registering from no party preference to become a Democrat right before

he threw his hat in the ring. Nobody really knew him until he spent all that money, but they do now. He emerged with about 42% of the vote. And then second is Karen Bass. She is a congresswoman. She was on the shortlist for vice president when Joe Biden was making his pick. She's a former speaker of the state assembly here. Progressive black woman who has really kind of got into politics during all that civil unrest in the 90s in L.A. and is kind of seen as the establishment candidate. But of course, it's California. So establishments means progressive Democrat. Right. And we should note here that this is a top two primary and Caruso and Bass will both advance to the general election in November. Now, Marisa, Los Angeles is seen by those of us who are not from L.A. or California. It's often seen as a pretty progressive place. So having a former Republican, even for the office of mayor, which is a nonpartisan office, at the top of the ticket, it seems pretty interesting. Was this a surprise? And also, I'm just curious, what were the big issues that helped

him do so well? Well, again, I mean, he spent $40 million. So I think you can get votes and your name out there if you spend that kind of money. But that's not the only reason he was getting attention. Homelessness, crime, public safety, really topping the list in Los Angeles. And yes, it is a deep blue Democratic city, but it's also a huge place. And there's a lot of variance among income levels, ethnic and racial diversity. And I think that Caruso did hit a nerve with a lot of folks really getting in front of some of these issues around the visibility, especially of things like homelessness. On the other hand, you know, I feel like Karen Bass didn't really get

the kind of coalescing of support by unions and other typical Democratic backers until pretty close to this vote. You know, she is sort of the favored establishment candidate, as I said, and I do think that this will be an all out kind of nail biter race heading into the fall because she got, you know, she's five points down from him at current count. But if you add up what the other candidates got in the race, it's definitely not, you know, a shoo-in for Caruso by any means. And I also think we have to note that maybe these will be the issues that are on top of mind for voters in a few months and maybe they won't be right. And I think that like,

it's hard to know right now with inflation, with guns, with Roe all on the potential docket, so to speak, moving forward. Um, if this Caruso message will continue having that potency in the months ahead. All right, well, let's move on to this other race we're talking about in Northern California with another referendum of sorts on progressive politics. San Francisco's district attorney, Chesa Boudin, faced a recall effort after critics of his tenure said he was too soft on crime. Nearly 60 percent of voters, again, at latest count, said yes to the recall and removed him from office.

Marisa, why was Boudin targeted here? Well, I think we have to talk about first who Boudin is. He is a former public defender, really made his name pushing things like bail reform as a public defender in San Francisco. But even more importantly, perhaps, is where he came from. His parents were part of the Radical Weather Underground group. They both spent decades in prison for essentially driving the getaway car in a robbery in which three people died, including two police officers. And so when you add that biography with the work he did, he was really, really disliked by law enforcement before he even took this office. And it was a bit of a surprise that he won. We have ranked choice voting here. And so he only got a little more than a third of the vote,

first place votes in that. And then the pandemic hit and crime trends really changed here. So I think that, you know, Boudin was a victim of both the sort of narrative that grew up over the past few years, you know, when he came into office, pre George Floyd, he was sort of talking about a lot of those things around police accountability and reform. But what we saw during the course of the pandemic in a place like San Francisco was some real big shifts in who was being targeted a lot more property crimes hitting residents, for example, and neighborhoods that hadn't seen them in the past, because all the tourists went home. And then I think some missteps on his part and a real kind of like an inability to catch up with the narrative. I just remember at the end

of last year watching all those viral videos of shoplifting and those huge retail theft rings and just thinking, wow, like the narrative in California feels like it's shifting in a way that I don't think folks on his side caught up with soon enough to really get ahead of, again, a pretty big money recall. We saw $8 million spent against him, a lot of it coming from out of town donors, including some big Republican donors. And when you have that combined with I think just the fatigue of voters, you know, and during this pandemic, it was this kind of perfect storm to oust him. You know, Domenico, I want to ask you for some perspective here, because to the outside observer, like I said earlier, California is seen as a deep blue, pretty progressive place. And yet,

at least in these two high profile races, moderate voices and views did pretty well. Is one takeaway here simply that very democratic doesn't necessarily mean very progressive? What do you think of all of this? Well, I think it doesn't necessarily translate to ideology. I mean, I think that when you live in a place, you want to first and foremost feel safe when you go outside. You want to feel like the places that you go are places you want to walk around, that you're seeing things that you like, that you don't feel like you're going to get mugged. You don't feel like your car is going to get broken into. It's sort of like the baseline of what it means to be a mayor or a district attorney. Do I feel safe? Is crime something that is not a major concern? If it is, it doesn't matter what party you are.

People are looking for technocrats, essentially, to make sure that your communities are safe. And both of these elections are warning signs in two major American cities facing high crime and homelessness about the limits of progressive governance, really. You know, you can't govern based on ideology. We've seen that in Kansas, for example, with Sam Brownback when he was governor there and governed based on ideology. And he was essentially run out of office because people didn't like the policies and how they were affecting them in real life. And I will say as a New Yorker, somebody who actually grew up in New York, I've seen, you know, two Republicans who've become mayor in a city that Democrats outnumber Republicans. So what matters most, and again, one of those mayors, Rudy Giuliani, that was because of crime in the 90s, why he was able to rise there and be able to become mayor. Mike Bloomberg to sort of, you know, continue that policy. So I don't necessarily think people are going to vote ideologically if they feel like they're not safe. Similar to New York, remember Bill Bratton, the former police chief in LA, who made, you know, Dick Reardon brought him and he was a Republican there. And I think that one

thing I noticed here in California, and we've seen in New York as well, is local politicians seem to be the one on the hot seat here, right? We're not seeing the same kind of anger around at least this issue of public safety or homelessness necessarily being taken out statewide in California. Gavin Newsom very strongly came out of that recall effort last year and just cleaned up in this primary. So did his handpicked Attorney General Rob Bonta, who's really been the face of a lot of reforms here, including bail, which actually voters rejected the bill he had written. But ultimately, it doesn't seem like they're taking it out there. And I think that maybe speaks to what Domenico is saying, which is like, what do you see when you walk outside? And who are you holding responsible? And I think in the case of Boudin,

we see him being held responsible for things that truly have nothing to do with being a prosecutor, right, like homelessness. And yet, if you can kind of scapegoat somebody like that, it's pretty effective. And I think we see the mayor here kind of titrating her message, putting more money back into police, and yet still saying, no, we're not giving up on reform. I think the challenge for her is going to be, does this voter anger reach her next? Because now she has appointed, you know, handpicked the DA and actually half of our school board after that last recall a couple months ago. All right. Well, we'll be watching. I know you will be, too. That is Marisa Lagos of KQED.

Thank you so much. My pleasure. Let's take another quick break. And when we return, as always, can't let it go. And we're back and it is time to end the show like we do every week with Can't Let It Go. This is the part of the show where we talk about the things from the week that we just can't stop talking about, politics or otherwise. Domenico, let's start with you. What can't you let go of? Well, it's back. One of my favorite guilty pleasures that I'm not even sure why I like so much or why I continue to watch, but it's The Floor is Lava. Yes. Oh, I like that show. It's back? Yeah. The kids essentially game, right? Where you used to jump from couch cushion to couch cushion

is teams of three essentially jumping across all these obstacles and the floor literally is or looks like lava. Clearly, it's not lava. We'd all die. Everything in the room wouldn't be able to stand up. Thanks for the fact, Chuck. I just thought I'd throw it out there in case anybody thought people were actually dying in lava, but you never know these days. People actually have been asking what happens to the contestants because when they fall in the lava you don't see them come back up oh do you know what happens to them i've been actually like going down a little bit of a rabbit hole on this and they the consensus seems to be that um it uh is just crafty editing ah we used to play that game too with my two brothers and the floor was sharks. So I'm afraid of sharks.

But it's a great show. I used to do alligators, I think. Yeah, we did too. I think it's just one of those things I feel like after a week like this where you have to do so much thinking about big things like democracy. I don't know. Sometimes it's just to recharge your brain, put it on the back burner and, you know, watch something like that. I don't know. Yes.

Maybe the three of us could get on the show. Oh, my God. I would be embarrassed, though, if I fell in. I would, too, but also. It's part of the comedy goal. I'll be the butt of a joke in order to help America. Exactly. Same.

All right. All right, Deirdre, what can't you let go of? The thing I can't let go of this week is this sort of viral video that I saw on a morning show this week where this couple goes to Disney in Paris. The boyfriend is down on one knee with a ring proposing to his girlfriend on this stage overlooking the magic castle very picturesque really pick this spot to do this big have this big moment um you know something you'll remember forever and this disney cast member runs out of nowhere swoops in grabs the ring box and runs down and is just like get off the stage get off the stage and i was the stage. And I was like, oh, my God, he completely ruined this, like, very important personal moment for this couple. And the guy starts just like walking down and guiding his girlfriend. And you're like, I didn't know this was going to happen. We're going to make it up to this couple. And it turned out they have spent a lot of time at Disney. It's a big part of their relationship.

And this was really important for them to get engaged there. And I'm just sort of wondering what they're going to get to make up for this. Hopefully it's like a free wedding at Disney or something. Yeah. You know, I saw the video of this of the guy you know coming in and sort of snatching the snatching the joy out of out of this moment and i thought it was fake i was like this can't be real like somebody actually went up and did this but i don't know maybe the guy's just like trying to follow the rules it's like no one's supposed to be on the stage get off the stage guys i know but just like trying to follow the rules. He's like, no one's supposed to be on the stage. Get off the stage, guys. I know, but just like take a beat and be like, okay, let's just like start, you know, 30 seconds late.

This is a big deal. I'm clearly speechless. That's so bad. It's just mean. Yes. What a buzzkill. I got engaged recently, and I cannot imagine that having happened after the months of planning that went into it. So I feel for the poor guy.

Well, congratulations and I'm glad you did not have this happen to you. Way to go, Domenico. I did not. Way to not have your ring snatched. I'm serious. Yay. So, Danielle, what can't you let go of this week? Mine is also wedding related.

It is also importantly related to the queen herself, Ms. Britney Spears. I mean, who can let go of her? Yes. Oh, the queen. I don't know. There might be some Beyonce fans out there. One queen is the OG. One queen of several. Let's put it that way. No, because Britney Spears got married this week and that's fantastic. It's wonderful. I just I've been reading as much news as I could on this because there's I her ex-husband showed up at the wedding trying to crash it. Oh, my God. Nightmare. I'm outraged. As an elder millennial, I think I have a very – I may be overly invested in her life, but I just, I want her to have nice things. And it's just

so upsetting to see that her wedding was, had that sort of drama at it. But no, I mean, I've been reading all of the celebrity news this morning about it. Can't help it. Her fiance, Sam Ashgari, there are these beautiful photos of them. Her dress is gorgeous. And furthermore, it appears that the wedding was pretty tightly managed, wasn't full of paparazzi or anything like that. It wasn't that big. You know what? I am happy. That's kind of nice. Yes. After her long and winding, like the conservatorship, all of that stuff, I'm just, I have a very simple click. I'm pleased that Brittany is having had a nice wedding day. I hope all the good things for her. Good for you, Brittany.

That's it. I'm going to think good thoughts. And I think it's really nice that it wasn't leaked to the paparazzi and she was able to have her day, except for the ex-crash. Right? Right. Absolutely. Alright, we are going to leave it there for today. Our survey, go take

it, please. It is at npr.org slash podcast survey. Our executive producer is Mathoni Mat please. It is at npr.org slash podcast survey. Our executive producer is Mithoni Mathuri. Our editors are Eric McDaniel and Krishna Dev Kalimer. Our producers are Elena Moore, Casey Morrell, and Lexi Schapittle. And our intern is Maya Rosenberg. Thank you to Brandon Carter. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben.

I cover demographics and culture. I'm Deirdre Walsh. I cover Congress. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.