The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: June 18th

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

Democratic Congressman Jamaal Bowman is part of a new class of progressive lawmakers hoping to push their party left on issues like police reform, healthcare and racial justice. A proponent of reparations legislation, the former New York principal tells NPR that President Biden's position "falls short" when it comes to reparations for survivors and descendants of victims of the 1921 Tulsa race massacre.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's the Weissmans, and we are about to leave on our road trip to... The Mascot Hall of Fame! Today's show was recorded at... 1021 AM on Thursday, June 17th. Some things may have changed by the time you hear this, but hopefully we'll have met Reggie. Alright! Enjoy! Enjoy the show!

Enjoy the show. Enjoy the show. Wait, there's a mascot museum? Where is that? No clue. And who's Reggie? I have so many questions. I gotta know. It sounds like they're about to have a really fun day, though.

Have a great vacation. Hey there. It's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. I'm Susan Davis. I also cover Congress. And I'm Juana Snell. I cover Congress. I'm Susan Davis. I also cover Congress. And I'm Juana Summers. I cover politics and racial justice.

So we're recording today, Thursday, because we, as at NPR, are taking the day off tomorrow for Juneteenth. And today we're talking about one of the newest faces on Capitol Hill, Democratic Congressman Jamal Bowman. He's a young black progressive who defeated a 16-term Democrat in a primary race in New York. He easily won that very blue seat last November, and now he wants to push the rest of the party to the left on things like criminal justice reform, racial justice, and Medicare for All. So, Juana, you've spent a lot of time getting to know Bowman recently, and you were just out in his district. What can you tell us about it? Yeah, that's right, Kelsey. We actually traveled to the Bronx to sit down with him, and I talked to him about his campaign and why he would possibly want to run for Congress.

Bowman was an educator, a middle school principal when he ran for the first time. As you mentioned, he defeated Eliot Engel and now represents a district that straddles the Bronx and Westchester County. It is majority Black and Latino. And he ran on an incredibly progressive platform in a campaign that was upended by the coronavirus pandemic. He called out Elliot Engel for not being present in that district and not in touch with the needs of the community. When we talk earlier this month at the Gun Hill Houses, which is this public housing development in the Bronx, I asked him what it meant to him personally that he now represents a community like that one. You know, I used to live in public housing. You know, I grew up Black in America. I grew up in, you know, close to Spanish Harlem where,

you know, we didn't have much money, but we was like all friends and cool and playing and going to school together. And it was just dope. So I feel like I'm representing, you know, like my tribe, like my kinship, like kin, you know? So Bowman's part of this new class of progressives entering Congress. And he did also tell me in the interview that members of the squad have acted as somewhat mentors for him, especially Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who charted a similar path to Congress and represents a neighboring district in New York. And was also a freshman lawmaker who got sort of an outsized amount of attention coming into Congress. I mean, there's some similarities between Bowman and Ocasio-Cortez because they both did the hardest thing to do in politics, and that is defeat an incumbent

running for re-election. I mean, your chances of winning the lottery as a member of Congress are probably higher than that. And he's been a really fascinating person because I think not just because of his progressivism, but like Ocasio-Cortez, has been really willing to criticize within the party. I mean, he obviously has been very comfortable attacking Republicans, but is part of this sort of combative voice within the Democratic Party that is not just trying to, like, convince Democrats to move more to the left, but is verbally sort of pushing them in that direction. Yeah, and I think that's really interesting to see happen on such a national stage, because I'm wondering, you know, how is that playing back at home, Juana? What is it like seeing him back there with his constituents? Well, it was really interesting. So when we met up with him, he and I was on this trip with

Chloe Weiner, who helps produce this podcast, he was outside of the Gun Hill subway station, walking around with flyers and essentially trying to introduce himself to anybody who would stop and chat with him even for a couple of minutes. And he was telling me that, you know, this district and this part of his district in particular, had been particularly hard hit by the coronavirus pandemic. And that while things were starting to come back, people were out all over the place, some wearing masks, some not wearing masks, that he still had a lot of concern about the fact that when he goes up to people and he asks them whether they've been vaccinated or if they plan to get vaccinated, he's usually going to get a 50-50 response. So that was something

really of concern to him. And it's an issue that's also really personal to him, I should note. His mother actually passed away after battling COVID earlier this year. But he is certainly a dynamic force. One thing that I thought was kind of interesting is because he was a principal for so long and actually helped found a school in the Bronx, a number of people who walked up to him and stopped him on the street would say things like, oh, you know, you used to teach my friend or he used to be my friend's principal. So while not everybody knew who he was, it was clear that this was a community that sees a real connection with him. And he's also, just in terms of personality, he's got a pretty magnetic personality, was able to draw people of different ages, different races into conversations in a way

that felt almost effortless at times. You know, it kind of sounds like something that's fairly common for really dynamic new members of Congress, which is like, they have to get to know their constituents, they have to, you know, develop this relationship where their constituents know who they are. But they're also not really a senator or a governor where they have this singular power to follow through on the things that they want to promise to people. They're one person out of 435. So we see this a lot. I mean, how do people navigate this? How is Bowman navigating this? I mean, it's tricky because frankly, no freshman member of Congress, there's certainly no freshman member of the House, even if they have a fair amount of media interest or attention, is going to be that legislatively effective. It's just not how

the building works. You certainly need to build up some seniority, some alliances to actually be someone who's leading on actual legislation getting passed. However, I do think that the progressive caucus, especially in the House, has really shifted the conversation within the Democratic Party of what it stands for and what it should be fighting for. And I don't think there's any doubt that sort of the rising energy in the Democratic Party is the progressive left. They don't have the numbers they would like to have in Congress to move on the agenda as they would like to see it. They have a sort of hot and cold ally in the White House. Joe Biden on many issues is aligned with progressives,

but on many issues he is not. And I think Bowman has a sort of an opportunity here. It depends on how well he uses it. He's only been in office six months. This is a long game. How does he want to be effective? Does he want to be sort of the messenger, the person on cable news,

the person being the quote, or does he want to be sort of the behind the scenes player who's actually like getting the stuff in the bills and getting things through committees and legislating? And most members of Congress aren't good at doing both. They often excel at one or the other. I think he seems to be a pretty effective communicator. I mean, he obviously has a really good grassroots style of campaigning that helped him win this election, very similar again to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. And he comes in with sort of a natural interest because he's like the guy in the squad now, right? I think one thing that is interesting about him is that I think there's oftentimes

a misperception about the Congressional Black Caucus and Black lawmakers where people presume that they're much more progressive than they are. The CBC has often been a pretty moderating force inside the House Democratic Caucus. And Bowman is sort of breaking the mold in that way, too. He is much more aggressively progressive than the average freshman male Black lawmaker coming into Congress has been in certainly the modern times. And this is something that I also actually asked him about the kind of generational tensions between himself and older Black lawmakers. And it was funny in our conversation, he referred to them as the OG reps, as in the original gangster representatives. And he actually made the point, you know, that he believes that those lawmakers paved the way

for members like him, Congresswoman Cori Bush of Missouri and others, to come in and be more radical, as he put it. He said if they hadn't been in Congress for as long as they had and kind of tilled the soil for him, that members like him wouldn't have had the chance to come in and kind of shake the table and make the kind of noise, as he put it, that they're trying to make. And I did also talk to a member of leadership about Congressman Bowman. And that was Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, who of course is chairman of the House Democratic Caucus. And he was actually pretty approving of Bowman's style. He pointed out kind of the realities that it takes 218 votes in the chamber to get anything done, which means you have to find more than 200 other people who agree with you on any given issue.

And Jeffries told me that he believes that Bowman is someone who has intentionality, who is willing to build relationships and to advocate strategically to get things done, which is a pretty big stamp of approval coming from someone who is widely seen as part of the future of House Democrats. Also someone who might want to run for speaker one day and would probably very much like to have Jamal Bowman's vote if and when he does. No question. All right, we're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we're going to talk about how Bowman is shaping the discussion around reparations for Black Americans. And we're back. So one of the things Bowman has been pushing for in the House is reparations for Black Americans. Yeah, that's right. He is a vocal backer of a bill known as H.R. 40 that actually started being discussed decades ago, but is now getting a closer look in Congress and has never seen the kind of

movement that it's seen right now. This is a bill that is sponsored by Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. The bill would create a commission to study reparations for Black Americans who are the descendants of slaves and also consider a national apology for the lingering effects of slavery. Take a listen to how Bowman talked about that in our interview. So we as a nation just have to take responsibility for what we've done, for who we are, and ask ourselves why in 2021, when you look at life expectancy, when you look at wealth inequality,

when you look at education outcomes, when you look at who's more likely to die of COVID, who's more likely to be killed by the police or incarcerated, the answer is African Americans. And the answer is African Americans, not because of some genetic inferiority. It's because of policy total of what he sees here. And one thing that struck me about how he frames this issue, and I think it's partially due to his background as an educator, is that he sees the process of truth and reconciliation and the study that this commission would do if it's created that would take a part in kind of educating the country

as perhaps just as important as what kind of remedies this commission could actually recommend. You know, just to give people some context, H.R. 40 has 190 co-sponsors, all Democrats in the House, and that's out of 220 Democrats. So it is not, it's something that has a lot of support, but it doesn't have unanimous support among Democrats, and it doesn't have the 218 votes that would be necessary for it to be approved in the House. Yeah, I mean, I think Wanda makes a great point in that it has more support than it ever has in the past, but it still doesn't have the support it would need to get through Congress. I don't think you even have enough Democratic support in the House or Senate to do it on their own if they could. And I'm not sure if there's much,

if any, Republican support for it. And when he's been asked in the past, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell says he does not support reparations. So if he doesn't back it, it's hard to squint and see how there could ever be close to 10 Republicans for it, certainly in this Congress. But that's still a big shift and a movement towards reparations is still an ongoing thing. So I don't think we can say conclusively that this will or will not ever happen. We're sort of in the middle of it. Right. You know, and it is a moment when Democrats want to be the party that helps repair racial divides in this country. You know, another example is the vote this week to make Juneteenth a federal

holiday. True. Although I would say in the counter to that, that was a huge bipartisan vote in both the House and Senate. I mean, that was a pretty easy thing to do. I think what we have seen is when it comes to the tougher stuff, reparations, police reform, you know, anything that really gets into actual legislative policy, it's still pretty tough to do and still really hard to find the kind of bipartisan buy-in you need to get it done. And I think that's the point that a lot of activists have made since we have seen this legislation move through. I mean, the push to make Juneteenth a federal holiday got more momentum last year after the killing of George Floyd and the racial reckoning that everyone seeing that video of his death sparked. But people have pointed out to me that the legislation to make Juneteenth the federal holiday is being passed at a moment where a slew of substantive policies, many of which Sue just mentioned, that Black leaders want to see that would meaningfully and substantially

improve the lives of Black folks in this country, those pieces of legislation are not moving. And I think the first thing people point to when I talk to them is legislation that includes federal protections for the rights of people to vote. This is also happening, as we have talked about in this podcast recently, as we are in the middle of this big culture war debate over the issue of critical race theory. And as our colleagues at the Code Switch podcast just reported, polls show that white support for Black Lives Matter is actually lower now than it was before it surged in the wake of George Floyd's killing. So I think there are people in this country, and I think Jamal Bowman is one of them, who see the response of making Juneteenth a federal holiday as not enough for the scope

of the problems and the deep-seated issues that people of color, and just to put a finer point on it, Black people face. We are taping this on Thursday, and President Biden is expected to sign the Juneteenth bill sometime later today. So by the time you're listening to this, that bill may now already be law. Wynna, where does Biden come down on the issue of reparations? So the White House has said repeatedly that President Biden does support a study on the issue of reparations, which we should point out is essentially what the HR 40 legislation calls for. But a number of advocates say they want to hear more from the president on this issue and frankly, see more action. The president gave a sweeping speech

in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to mark the 100th anniversary of the Tulsa Race Massacre, which was frankly, one of the worst episodes of racial violence in this country's history. And in that speech, one thing that did not come up was whether he supports survivors who have been pushing for reparations for themselves and descendants of other victims. Some of them have even sued the city of Tulsa and other parties trying to make the case that they need to be made whole. Take a listen to what Bowman told me about the president's position on reparations for those survivors. Like, you're the leader of the free world. Be the leader of the free world. Which means be the leader of freedom for all of us, not just some of us. And if moderates of the Republican Party don't get on board, so be it.

You have to lead. You have to provide the vision for what needs to happen and what's possible. And this is where he, as a white man in America, falls short, as many white men and white people in America fall short. And as many white men and white people in America fall short, you know? And I think that is just another example of what we were talking about earlier, that this is someone who says he wants to work with the party, but also on this issue and so many others is very willing to publicly critique when he sees people in his party, even the President of the United States, go down a path that he does not agree with.

You know, we will be watching him pretty closely as the House and Senate attempt to get some sort of police reform bill through. You know, they say they're going to try to do that this month, but the time is really running out. Juana, thank you so much for bringing all of this really great reporting. If you want to hear more from Bowman or read the full story, you can check it out at npr.org. We're going to leave it there. And when we get full story, you can check it out at NPR.org. We're going to leave it there. And when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it is time for Can't Let It Go. Sue, I'm going to start with you.

The thing I can't let go this week is Hunter Biden's art. Oh, yeah. Tell me more. Hunter Biden, the son of the president, if you don't know, is a new emerging artist. He's only started painting and drawing in the past couple of years. But there was a report this week in Artnet who interviewed Hunter Biden that he's going to have his first solo exhibition of his art at a Soho gallery this fall. But the reason why I can't let it go is Biden's art dealer said he was going to start prices for Biden's art at $75,000 and they could go up to as high as $500,000 for some of his larger paintings. You better really want one of those. I can't let it go because there is just

no way a Hunter Biden painting is worth half a million dollars. I'm sorry. He's not a trained artist. It is something he has started doing in recent years. I just think it's way too much money to pay for some art in a Soho gallery. It's crazy to me. Some of it is kind of interesting looking. We were looking at it earlier in the week. I mean, it's not bad art. It's just not like half a million dollar art. You know, I don't know how to judge half a million dollar art, but I feel like that's not it. You know, I could buy several houses for $500,000. I'm not sure I'm buying a painting from the president's son for that.

Right. And like, if you've got half a million dollars to spend on art, I'd feel like that's not the kind of artist you're investing in. Like you probably want, I don't know, maybe he's going to be the next big thing in the art scene and I'll have to eat crow on this. But I think it's good for him to do the art, sell your art, support art. But those prices just seem so overinflated that I just have to roll my eyes at it a little bit. And I just find it hard to

believe that people are going to be spending that much money for Hunter Biden art, but I will be tracking this gallery sale in the fall to see how many pieces actually sell. All right, Juana, what about you? What's on your mind? I feel like we've got to unpack what's going on with the Girl Scout cookies. I have been told, and the New York Times has told me this, that there are 15 million boxes of extra cookies right now, which seems crazy to me because we have largely been inside our houses for a year, and I could think of nothing better to have inside my house with me than an extra couple boxes of Girl Scout cookies. But apparently the pandemic has made it difficult for Girl

Scouts to sell their cookies because you can't have Girl Scouts really knocking on your door or setting up outside the grocery store in most places during a pandemic. Oh, I didn't even think about that. Yeah. And you don't have people in the office. Right. Your mom is now or dad is not walking around being like, here's the sign-up sheet. But apparently, they also don't have a lot of online sales options right now. That seems like a failure in the modern era.

It does. They did have like a partnership with Grubhub, but I could never, I just tried to look. I figured, you know, there are 15 million boxes. Perhaps I'd take a couple of them off their hands and I couldn't figure out how to get any of these boxes. So now I have no cookies. So I looked into this as well. And apparently you cannot, as a standard consumer, go and try to buy them, but you can donate cookies to people like first responders. So they're not selling them on the open market, but they're letting people, you know, donate them. Could you donate them to like your neighbor and then go pick them up at your neighbor's house? If I can, I'd donate you cookies. I'll take some Samoas.

This is as good a reason as any to get back into the office, because I know there's some parents of Girl Scouts around us. Oh, yeah. Yeah, hit me up next year, guys. All right, I guess that makes it my turn. And the thing that I cannot let go of is the man in Massachusetts who claims he was swallowed by a whale. Now, he says he was swallowed and then spit back out. And it is a kind of a wild story. I don't know if people have seen this. It was reported in a Cape Cod newspaper about this man who's a lobster fisherman who says that he was

sucked up into the whale and then somehow spit back out. But like, I have a lot of questions here. Can whales really swallow people? Is that possible? Are they really going to be spitting people back out? Also, there's like this weird twist in his original story that he has survived a plane crash. There's just a lot going on in this story that makes me not so sure that lobster diver Michael Packard, 56, of Wellfeetfield was really swallowed by a whale. I would think that you could probably be swallowed by a humpback whale because they're like so big that that doesn't surprise me that they could like suck you in. I feel like it's the getting spit back out part that I'm like, there's some questions being raised in this story here.

Real Pixar-y right there. They should turn it into a movie. I feel like everybody's kids would watch that, right? Oh, sure. I definitely think so. I also feel like that's the kind of thing that happens to you that maybe you start reevaluating your whole life. That's like, who survives? Who gets swallowed by a whale and then spit back out? You have to be like, I'm here for a purpose. I mean, I would have thought that the surviving the plane crash might have spurred that on. Maybe he's a superhero like in that Bruce Willis movie where it's like he doesn't know it yet, but he's like invincible.

Or maybe he's just trying out for an opportunity to have Bruce Willis play him on the big screen. Or maybe he's a fraud. Well, there's also that option. Bleak turn. Bleak turn. All right. That is a wrap for today. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mithoni Mitteri and Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Barton Girdwood and Chloe Weiner. Thanks to Lexi Schipittel and Brandon Carter. And our intern is Maya Sel Spotted Elk.

I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover Congress. I'm Susan Davis. I also cover Congress. And I'm Juana Summers. I cover politics and racial justice. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.