The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: October 16th

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

Donald Trump mired himself in conspiracy last night at his NBC News town hall. Joe Biden didn't give a clear answer on court-packing, but said he'd make his position clear sometime before the election.Voters in Michigan and Ohio are feeling differently than they did four years ago. And, more than 20 million Americans have already voted. So, what does that really tell us?This episode: political reporter Danielle Kurtzleben, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, campaign correspondent Asma Khalid, and voting reporter Miles Parks.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, NPR Politics Podcast. This is Jackie and Joseph here in Portland, Maine. We just turned in our Ranked Choice absentee ballots to the City Clerk's Office. This podcast was recorded at 9.58 a.m. on October 16th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this. Okay, here's the show. I love that they called out ranked choice voting. Hey there, it is the NPR Politics Podcast. I am Danielle Kurtzleben.

I cover politics. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the presidential campaign. And I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And happy Friday, you guys. Tam, it sounds as if you might not be in your home. Yes, I am currently in a hotel lobby.

I'm traveling with the president. We are waiting for our COVID tests and then we're going to move into a van. Right, and you are traveling with the president because the president is traveling because the president had a town hall last night. And as it so happens, we had something really unique happen. It was simultaneous town halls between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. They appeared in competing town halls at the same time on ABC and NBC last night. For a quick rewind, here's how we got there. The two were supposed to appear in a debate together on Thursday night,

but President Trump balked at the decision by debate organizers to hold a virtual debate due to the coronavirus pandemic. Democratic nominee Biden then scheduled a town hall on ABC News. Then, days later, the Republican Trump's campaign set an event with NBC News. And that is how we got to this weird split screen situation we had last night. So given all of that, Tam, let's start with you. You watched Trump's town hall. What stood out to you about it? What were the big moments? Yeah, I actually got to be there at the place where it was happening in the room. Actually, it was on a large patio. So what stood out is that rather than any policy being the headline from this, there were a lot of conspiracy theories that ended up being the headline from last night's event. President Trump's unwillingness to

condemn something called QAnon, which is this wide ranging conspiracy theory that says that there is a deep state of democratic devil worshipping pedophiles. And this theory also says that President Trump is something of a savior. Anyway, the moderator, Savannah Guthrie, pressed him to say, hey, it's not real. And he wouldn't go there. I know nothing about QAnon. I just told you. I know very little. You told me. But what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. I hate to say that. I know nothing about it. I do know they are very much against pedophilia. They fight it very hard, but I know nothing about it. And the FBI has said that this conspiracy theory and others is a domestic terror threat, a potential domestic terror threat.

Just add to that list that President Trump also defended retweeting a conspiracy theory about bin Laden not really being dead and said, well, it's up to people to decide. And then when it comes to the coronavirus on masks, he went around in circles basically saying, like, I'm cool with them, but I don't know that they work and offering suggestions that they don't work at all, which is completely out of line with science and federal government recommendations. This was such a stark screen contrast to what I was seeing with Joe Biden's town hall in Philadelphia last night. It was a really different vibe. None of the combativeness that we heard from President Trump's town hall.

It was this really slow, calm, frankly, some would say kind of boring night in comparison. It was very heavy on policy. And you had these kind of long filibustery like answers from Biden, which to me, you know, was a remarkable difference from how a normal debate would have sounded like. There were no interruptions. You can kind of speak at length for however long he wanted to. And so as a result, you know, he was pushed on something that's come up in recent weeks from both Republicans and reporters. And that's this question of whether or not he would expand the number of Supreme Court justices if he were to win the presidency. And, you know, he has said in the past that he's not a fan of this idea of so-called court packing. But the moderator, George Stephanopoulos, pushed him on this issue. Don't voters have a right to know where they do have a

right to know where they stand? They'll have a right to know where I stand before they vote. So you'll come out with a clear position before Election Day? Yes, depending on how they handle this. And I guess we should clarify that what he was saying there at the end, depending on how they handle this, was a reference to, you know, depending on how the process to nominate Judge Amy Coney Barrett goes through the Senate and how that's all handled. But it was this, you know, I would say it is perhaps the sort of longest, most direct answer we've heard from Joe Biden about how he is thinking of what to do with the courts. But it was also a rather confusing and meandering, you know, answer to some degree as well. He said that he would be open to considering options, you know, but reiterated the fact that he's not a fan of court packing.

So guys, just just so you know why the sound is changing, we are now headed to the vans, but we can keep talking. All right, well, let's change gears a little bit here then. A few weeks ago, you all went out to talk to voters in respectively Ohio, Tam and Michigan, Asma, about how those voters are feeling heading into this election. Ohio and Michigan for our listeners who have been living under an electoral rock, Ohio and Michigan are of course very very very key states. So Tam let's start with you. You went to Lordstown, Ohio. Good morning. Good morning.

Is there any chance I could get you to turn down the volume or the air just a little bit because I'm taping a... I'm recording a podcast. All right, I'm in. Do you want to... Sure, let me throw to you one more time. Okay, so Tam, let's start with you. You went to Lordstown, Ohio. Now, why there? Why is that place significant? President Trump had aggressively tweeted about the closing and sort of mean tweeted at GM and also at the union. But in the end, it still closed. And he quickly turned to trying to make it a rebirth story. And in fact, the day before the first presidential debate,

President Trump held an event at the White House to promote this electric all-wheel drive truck that's going to be made in Lordstown. The idea being, he said, like, Lordstown is back. Yeah, it had this loss, but now it's booming. And so I went to the Lordstown Motors factory. The parking lot was empty. The employee parking lot that went for her as far as the eye could see had maybe a few dozen cars in it. And I talked to somebody named Bill Janik, who worked at GM Lordstown for 17 years. He voted for President Trump in 2016. I interviewed him in his garage and he, way up high on a shelf, he had a 2016 Trump-Pence yard sign, but he didn't have a 2021 in his yard. And he's deeply ambivalent. He doesn't know what to do.

You know, how do I vote for him now after, you know, we're out of a job, basically, because of things. And he did say, we're going to attack Mexico. We're going to do. He didn't do that. He did some things, but he did not help us one bit. What is your read on how the economy and specifically manufacturing are weighing on the Ohio vote this time around? This is a region in the state that has been deep blue Democratic for generations because it's a big union town. But in 2016, it swung towards President Trump. And the question is, will it stay that way? And Joe Biden's making a major play for this region. Every little thing around the edges, add in, you know, people in the suburbs,

add in various other elements of the electorate. And what shouldn't be a close race for the president is in toss-up territory. You know, Tam, I'm struck by this area, the Mahoning Valley. When I was out there after the 2016 election talking to voters, you know, in some ways it's an economic story. But what I remember hearing so much from people, even folks who, you know, align as Democrats, was this idea that they felt like the National Democratic Party had moved too far to the left on some social issues, whether that was immigration or transgender issues. And I remember hearing about this. And one of the things that I am struck by when you look at, you know, polling now about Joe Biden is that, you know,

he seems to be doing very well with white voters as a whole, as a block. And to me that, you know, perhaps explains some of the strength he has in places like Ohio or Iowa, some places that Hillary Clinton did not do as well in. Yeah, I mean, it's a major difference. And I think there is on some level a greater comfort with Joe Biden and his style and maybe the fact that he's a guy. Sorry, that kind of punched me in the face. OK. Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, people, it seems like had very visceral reactions to Hillary Clinton. And I heard that a lot in some of my reporting in Michigan as well. OK, well, let's talk about that, Asma. You were reporting in Michigan a few weeks ago. Michigan, of course, was obviously important to Trump's win in 2016. He eked out

a win there. And one of the challenges for Democrats there was low enthusiasm for Clinton, especially among voters of color. That's right. And I was really curious to hear from what I would describe as kind of like disillusioned Democrats from 2016. A lot of these folks are black and brown voters, you know, Arab voters from Dearborn, Michigan, African American voters from in and around Detroit. And I wanted to get a sense from them of, you know, if you voted third party, or if you sat out the 2016 election, if you did not care for Hillary Clinton, where are you now? And, you know, one of the things I heard consistently from people was this sense that the stakes now, the stakes in the 2020 election feel greater in large part because people have now seen President Trump

in office for a few years, and also because of COVID. And in and around Detroit, COVID had a very personal effect for a number of voters. And this is something I heard, you know, this sort of difference of what's at stake from Ken Whitaker. He's with the Michigan People's Campaign. It's this progressive group that endorsed Bernie Sanders in the primaries, but it's now backing Joe Biden. A lot of people didn't like Hillary Clinton. Let's be honest, did not like Hillary Clinton. And I'm not going to say everybody likes Joe Biden. But there is a much better understanding that progress doesn't always mean running 10 blocks forward. Sometimes progress is stopping your slide going 20 blocks back. So Asma, one thing I was struck by both in this

story and a story you did on suburban women was just the changes in attitudes or intensifying attitudes that people had from 2016 to now, people who didn't vote then and are voting this year, people who felt one way and who felt ambivalent in 2016, but now really like Trump more. Tell me more about that. That seems like it was pretty widespread. There is this intensity of feeling. And I will say, you know, I heard this from a lot of older African Americans in particular who are really opposed to the way that Donald Trump has governed these last couple of years. I stood outside of a ballot drop box in Detroit, and this is a place where people could drop off their mail-in ballots.

And, you know, here I was, let's say about a month before actual election day, and I met a guy, Michael Coleman, who told me he did not vote in the 2016 presidential election. He's 69 years old, but he was coming here to hand deliver his ballot, you know, weeks and weeks before it was actually going to be counted. And he said he didn't want to, you know, take the risk of it getting lost in the mail. You know, Danielle, and what I was struck by was he told me he also did not love his choices in 2016, just like he doesn't really love them this year. But he's adamant that President Trump needs to go. And so if that means voting for Joe Biden, he is willing to do it. Sort of like 2016, there are a lot of votes against rather than votes for candidates, it sounds like.

All right, well, we're going to leave it there. Tam, thank you so much. We'll let you get back to your traveling. It sounds like you have a lot of it. Indeed. Well, when we get back, we're going to talk about how voting is going so far across the country. classes through Grow with Google. Offerings include free digital skills workshops, live and on-demand events, and short, helpful videos on key topics for small businesses. Explore Google's free tools for small businesses at google.com slash grow.

Support for NPR and the following message come from Simon & Schuster, publishers of The Upswing, How America Came Together a Century Ago and How We Can Do It Again, by sociologist and political scientist Robert D. Putnam. The Upswing, wherever books are sold. Voting is crucial, and I don't give a damn how you look at it. Is this a man? It was we, the people. The land of the free and the home of the brave.

Not we, the white male citizens. Misrepresentative Democracy. A new series about voting in America from NPR's ThruLine. Episodes drop October 15th. And we are back and we have lost a Tam, but we have gained a Miles Parks. Miles, hello. Not a great trade, but I'm happy to be here. Oh, stop. Don't be modest.

All right. Well, Miles, we're really happy to have you here because we have a lot to talk about, specifically, of course, voting. It's been ongoing in much of the country for a few weeks now. And I've been seeing a lot of social media posts, people posting their ballots. I know people are doing it. So give us a sense. How many people have voted? Yeah, a lot of people are doing it. We're up to 21.3 million people have already cast their ballots midway through October, which that's according to Michael McDonald, who's a political scientist at University of Florida. He's put together this amazing tracking system for us to kind of just watch. And you can literally refresh the page every couple hours, and it's like another million people have cast their ballots at

this point, which like, I know it's kind of hard to take a number like that and put it into context, but we're at like five or six times the amount of people who had voted at this point in 2016. Maz, can I ask, you know, how much does that signify just the reality that people are going to be voting more by mail this year because of the pandemic, because of the virus versus like genuine, you know, indications that turnout might be at record levels. Yeah, I mean, I think it's really hard to tell even when you talk to turnout experts. I think to be able to parse those two things is kind of difficult, though you can always tell voter enthusiasm by how many people show up on in early voting on those first couple

days. And in Texas and Georgia, we saw early voting start this week, and we saw those huge lines form. Many millions of people are voting on the first couple days of early voting, which is usually a good indicator of voter enthusiasm because those early voting periods go a couple weeks. So if people are that jazzed up to get out there immediately, it's a good sign for voter enthusiasm.

Well, let's talk about those long lines, Miles, because we've seen them in Georgia. We've seen them in Virginia. We've been seeing news stories and social media posts about people waiting in lines for, what, 8, 9, 10, 11 hours. So what does that tell us? Are there problems with our voting infrastructure right now? And what doesn't it tell us? up against the reality of voting in the middle of a global pandemic. You know, we, a lot of election officials, I've been talking about this, I feel like for months, a lot of election officials have had to, you know, consolidate polling places, have struggled to get poll workers in a lot of places. And so you mix that with the amount of excitement and the amount of people who do want to vote right now.

It makes sense that there are lines, not to say that anyone should have to wait in line for eight or nine, 10 hours, like we saw. But the other thing to remember is that early voting, when you talk to election experts, it's really, really crowded at the very beginning, those first two days, and it's really, really crowded on like the last two or three days. And then there's this huge lull right in the middle where, you know, virtually no one goes and does it. And, you know, it's really hard to kind of break that pattern. Sort of a view into voter psychology. They just want to get it done as quick as they can.

Well, and it's hard, too, because there's been all this messaging, vote early, vote early. But it's like, oh, not too early. You have to vote early, but like right in the middle there, you know? Right. Well, let's get one more really fascinating statistic about voting, which is that there are between 8,000 and 10,000 individual voting jurisdictions in America, because, of course, our elections are administered for the most part with local and state-level rules, ballots, all of that stuff. And you, Miles, have reported that some places are really getting after processing their early ballots some places are really getting after

processing their early ballots. They're really getting on that this year, right? Yeah, there's been a lot of, you know, more than two-thirds of the states can basically do a lot of that processing work long before Election Day. But what my reporting this week showed is that there are a couple swing states, battleground states, that are struggling with it, not because the local election officials or the state election officials are having problems, but because the laws have not adjusted in those states to adjust for how much mail voting is happening this year. Specifically, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, election officials in those states at this point cannot even start this really arduous process of opening the mail ballots, sorting them, separating them from secrecy sleeves, which takes a lot longer than in-person votes.

They can't start that in some cases until on election day. Michigan just passed a law that gave their election officials one extra day. They can start the process on Monday instead of Tuesday, but that's really going to make it tough for these election officials who are getting a lot of mail. You know, Miles, I was struck when I was in Michigan, though, by how much like Democratic voter enthusiasm there is around this issue. And I was interviewing these women in the suburbs. And one woman told me that she volunteered. I didn't know you could do this, but she's volunteered, she said,

to go help out in Detroit with counting absentee ballots because they're expecting so many to come in. And so there's this kind of like ad hoc force, it seems, of some suburban women who are trying to chip in and help so there's this kind of like ad hoc force, it seems, of some suburban women who are trying to chip in and help on this. That's fascinating. And you know, Detroit's a good example, because the mayor actually announced a couple weeks ago that they're even closing some of their city government stuff for two days around the election to basically get the city workers who are working in other spaces to come help election officials process. But it's important

to take that into context, because it's like, yes, that's great that these people are doing all these creative solutions. But in reality, you know, if the election officials just had a little bit more time to do it, they probably wouldn't need all of this, you know, ad hoc effort to help them. Well, let's get one more question here, Miles, which is, you know, looking at all of the early voting signals we have so far, is there any way at all to read the tea leaves in terms of what this means electorally, what it means in terms of who might win? I think it's hard to obviously take too many conclusions, but I think there's no way that any Democratic candidate who is looking at these numbers and is worried because we've seen just an overwhelmingly, the early voting population at this point has just been overwhelmingly Democratic. Target Smart, this data firm that works with Democrats, has modeled it out and they say, you know, more than half of the early votes at this point have been Democrats compared

to 36% for Republicans, which, you know, what that means is, and Asma can speak a little bit more to this, campaigns in those states where this is happening, can then target their resources at the people who haven't already voted. And so they can, you know, they can basically be adjusting for the people that they have in the bag at this point. And then they can just basically be focusing on turning out the people that aren't already out there and voting. You know, Miles, two things that I think give me a bit of caution to though in over interpreting some of that is what you said is, you know, part of it is that Democrats have been specifically messaging for a while now to their voters around

voting by mail, voting early, right? And that's not as much the messaging we've heard, certainly from the President of the United States, right? And so he's been discouraging, you could argue, some of his voters from actually participating in this idea of mail-in ballots. The other thing, though, that I wonder, and I just don't have a clear sense of this, is, I mean, I feel like I'm remembering a moment where the Hillary Clinton campaign was talking up, like touting how well their early vote numbers looked in Florida. And as it turned out, Hillary Clinton lost the state of Florida in 2016.

All right. Well, we still have, what, more than two weeks more of voting. So we'll be checking in more on this. But for now, we're going to take a quick break. And when we get back, it is time for Can't Let It Go. following message come from Rothy's. Rothy's makes stylish, sustainable shoes and bags for life on the go. As summer turns to fall, Rothy's has the styles and colors perfect for any occasion or adventure. The newest Rothy's edition is their first adjustable sneaker, the Lace Up. Seamlessly knit for no break-in period, Rothy's come with free shipping, free returns, and free exchanges. Check out all the shoes and bags available now at rothys.com slash weekly. A lot has changed since Senator Kamala Harris was Attorney General of California.

If you don't go to school, Kamala's going to put you and me in jail. We're going to get into her controversial record and what it might mean if she is elected vice president. Listen to the Code Switch podcast from NPR. And we are back and it is time to end the show the same way we do every week with Can't Let It Go. The part of the show where we talk about the things from the week we cannot stop thinking about politics or otherwise. Miles Parks, let's start with you. What can't you let go? Okay, so I cannot let go of this little contest that I thought of earlier this week that I'm hoping you guys will participate in too. It's like the, you know, at the fair when you were

young and you could go and like guess how many jelly beans were in this giant pot and then you could win a prize if you're correct. I'm doing that, but like the nerd version, the election nerd version, where basically I tweeted this out. And on this database I mentioned earlier, which is Michael McDonald's election turnout database, he's basically tracking how much of states' 2016 turnout they're up to at this point

and with how much early voting there's been, some states are already up to like a third of their total 2016 turnout by mid-October. Vermont is up to almost 40%. And so my challenge for you and for all of the listeners out there is to guess which state will be first to hit their 2016 turnout during the early voting period, and on what date they will hit that turnout. Oh, I love this. No, I have a state in mind, but I don't want to give it away to our listeners. So I'll just tweet it out.

Yeah, this requires some thinking. Think on it and then tweet it out. And then definitely listeners should get in touch. My guess was florida but that has nothing to do with any of my reporting it just has to do with florida bias i guess florida did you give a date what's your date my date was october 28th oh which i actually think with how quickly some of these states are now i did this a couple days ago and they're really chugging through it so it might be earlier than that now Now, it's hard to tell. Again,

like everything's unprecedented. So yeah, 28th was my guess. I love this. It's like guess the pig's weight, but the politics edition. That's wonderful. That's the Iowa version. I've never done the guess the pig's weight, but yeah. All right. Asma, what can't you let go? So, you know, we were talking earlier about Joe Biden and Donald Trump's town halls and how different they were in style. And so yesterday night, there's a senior Trump campaign advisor who tweeted out that watching Joe Biden's town hall feels like I'm watching an episode of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, which made Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood

quite the sort of viral target on Twitter then. And long story short, I think it led some people down this rabbit hole about Mr. Rogers. I mean, I don't know how you all feel if you ever saw Mr. Rogers. But you know, it's not like a bad comparison, I would say, to compare Mr. Rogers to Joe Biden. Like if that's what he's going for, which is like no drama Biden, it's kind of on brand for him. But it led me down sort of a rabbit hole of different things. And so there's this video I saw on Twitter that someone had sent around where apparently in this Mr. Rogers episode from 1969, which by the way, I'm just sort of floored because I did not realize Mr. Rogers was on apparently in the 60s.

But anyhow, he invites Officer Clemens, an African-American man, to join him in this little kiddie pool alongside him. And, you know, long story short, basically, Officer Clemens, you know, talks about some point later where this was a really powerful moment because this was a point in time in which some black people were still being segregated from swimming pools. And this was a, you know, a controversial to some, I guess you could say, idea. And Mr. Rogers was making this kind of, you know, political statement for this very simple act. Around the country, they didn't want black people to come and swim in their swimming pools. And Fred said that is absolutely ridiculous. You know, when you see a Trump campaign advisor critiquing his town hall, comparing it to Mr. Rogers, it just struck me as like, that's not really that controversial of an attack. In fact, I feel like Joe Biden would

embrace that attack. Also, I got to say, as far as Internet rabbit holes go, the Mr. Rogers rabbit hole is maybe one of the warmest and fuzziest you could go down. So, I mean, you had a good Thursday night and I'm happy for you. OK, Danielle, what can't you let go of? What I can't let go of is much less important than either of the things you guys brought up. It is from Hormel Foods, purveyors of fine pork products, and they have made a bacon-scented face mask. Now, what they're calling it is breathable bacon. Now, look, look, look, look. The obnoxious obsession with bacon has been going on for a very long time, like bacon and everything and cupcakes, blah, blah, blah. It's a little played out. If

you're thinking that, I'm totally with you. And I first looked at this and rolled my eyes. But here's the thing about this that made me think twice. I was poking around their websites for these bacon-scented face masks, and they have a bunch of silly diagrams about the importance of wearing your mask correctly. Like, don't wear it over your eyes. Don't try to eat your face mask, blah, blah, blah. But one of the diagrams they have is showing that you should wear the face mask over your nose because nose exposure allows essential bacon scent to escape, which is funny. But also, listen, if scented face masks are going to get people to wear their flipping masks correctly because so many people don't, I am so all for it. And so maybe maybe I'm fine with bacon scented face masks. Maybe this isn't as dumb of an idea as I thought.

So Hormel Foods, God bless you. I hope people take this up if only so they wear their masks right. So that's what I can't let go. I totally get where you're coming from, Danielle. And I agree that it's like a good effort and like a good idea. But like, why can't we just do lavender or vanilla? Like I just, I'm nauseous. The concept of like smelling bacon

for like hours in a row. And I just wish I would like the concept to be a little bit more approachable, I guess. All right. Well, that's a wrap for today. You can find all of the ways to stay connected with us in the description of this episode. Our executive producer is Shirley Henry. Our editors are Mithoni Maturi and Eric McDaniel.

Our producers are Barton Girdwood and Chloe Weiner. Thanks to Lexi Schapittle, Elena Moore, Dana Farrington, and Brandon Carter. Our intern is Kalyani Saxena. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover politics. I'm Asma Khalid. I'm covering the presidential campaign. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. And a special thanks to our funder, The Little Market, for helping to support this podcast.