The NPR Politics Podcast - Weekly Roundup: Trump's Televised Trial, Ramaswamy's Rap Riposte

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Donald Trump has pled not guilty to state charges in Georgia, as have many of his alleged co-conspirators.And, on the campaign trail, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis was forced to return home to deal with a storm. Vivek Ramaswamy agreed to stop performing an Eminem song, but said that he hopes the rapper will "rediscover the renegade that made him great."Also, the 2008 campaign celebrity "Joe the Plumber" died this week.This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, national political correspondent Sarah McCammon, WABE reporter Sam Gringlas, and national political correspondent Don Gonyea.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hello, this is Debra, and I'm here with Isla and Aviva, who are turning one year old today. Oh, twins. The time is... 12.07 p.m. on Friday, September 1st. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, like we'll be eating chocolate cake that their older brother helped us make. Okay, enjoy the show. Twins. Happy birthday times two. Yes, they the show. Twins. Happy birthday times two.

Yes, they're mobile. Yay. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. And our good friend Sam Gringlis is here from Georgia. Sam, you work at member station WABE, and we are grateful that you're here with us. Hi, Tam. Hey. So today on the show, a true roundup. We will start with the latest in former President Donald Trump's legal woes. Then we will catch up on what's been happening this week on the presidential campaign trail and end it with can't let it go, as we always do. So, Sam, let us start with this. We had been

expecting a Trump arraignment in Georgia, but he took a different route to entering his not guilty plea. Yep. Trump pled not guilty on paper. He waived his right to a formal arraignment. So that means he will not be in a courtroom in Atlanta next week. That part is all done. And actually, we're starting to see these pleas coming in from a whole range of defendants on this list. They've been trickling in over the last day or so and will keep coming in up until Wednesday, which is the deadline for people to make their plea. And a not guilty plea is not really a surprise here. One question that had been leading into that is whether there would be cameras in the courtroom. And I guess

that's a bigger question for the trial in general. Yeah, and we got an answer to that this week. Judge Scott McAfee in Fulton County Superior Court has said all the proceedings related to this case will be live streamed on the court's YouTube channel, in addition to pool cameras and reporters being in the room. So we will all have quite an eye into what this case looks like as it unfolds. And, you know, that's really different from these cases in federal court, which often don't even allow journalists to come in with laptops or phones into the courtroom. One thing I should mention, though, is there's a chance that this case gets moved out of Fulton County Court and into federal

court. And so that would be a whole different ballgame when it comes to cameras. And what's the difference between this state and federal strategy, Sam? I mean, I've heard speculation that some of the defendants think if they can get into federal court, maybe eventually Trump, if he's president again, would pardon them. But is that what this is about? What does your reporting suggest? Well, first, if this case does move into federal court, it would still be focused on state charges. And so any convictions would not be subject to a presidential pardon. It would be up to an independent review board in the state of Georgia. And that could only be considered five years after the completion of a sentence. So that's not really part of this equation. What is, is one, potentially having a more friendly jury pool. If it moves into federal

court, it would be heard from a 10-county division of the federal court system, not just Fulton County. These are some areas that are potentially a little more friendly to Republicans. But really, the bigger thing going on here has to do with making a case for immunity from prosecution. Part of the thinking goes is that if you can get a court to rule that the conduct was under the color of office, that it was part of your role as a federal official, then there might be some questions related to the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution that says, you know, the state can't find people responsible for committing crimes if the federal government explicitly allows these activities. So this could all have some really

big implications for the whole case, not just exactly the setting where it's tried. And Sam, that leads us to something pretty remarkable that happened this week, which was there's already been testimony. Mark Meadows, who was President Trump's last chief of staff, testified as part of a hearing to try to get this move to federal court. What was that like? Yeah, Tam, it was a really striking moment. You know, going into the courtroom on Monday, we weren't even sure that we would see Mark Meadows in the room. But he was the first witness to take the stand. And he was up there answering questions for almost four hours. And a lot of the questions had to do with one, whether

the conduct mentioned in this indictment fell under his official responsibilities as White House Chief of Staff. But some of the other questions you could imagine might give prosecutors fodder for later on in the case. You know, this is the first time we've really seen one of the defendants in this sweeping case having to answer questions under oath related to their conduct in the weeks after the 2020 election. And Sarah, in a classic case of the split screen that we are going to be living through Election Day and maybe well past it. There was also a court date set in the federal January 6th case. The trial would start one day before Super Tuesday, the day when all these states vote in the primary. Right. Judge Tanya Chetkin in D.C. in that election interference case set the trial for

March 4th. March 5th is Super Tuesday, big, possibly the most important day of the primary season, short of maybe the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primaries that set the tone. And originally, Sam, wasn't March 4th also a date that the state of Georgia had been eyeing for for that trial? Exactly. That's when D.A. Fonny Willis had hoped to take her case to trial. So it kind of underscores this kind of cluster that we're in right now where all these different cases are butting up against each other. And there's only so many days. Trials take a long time and you've got a presidential election unfolding. All of this is getting quite chaotic as we move into the next couple of months. All right. It is time for a quick break. Sam Greenglass of WABE in Georgia,

we will be talking to you again very soon. Thanks, Tam and Sarah. Thanks. And we will have more in a second. And we're back and joining us now is our political correspondent, Don Gagne. Hey, Don. Hey, glad to be here. And we're going to take a few minutes now just to get caught up on the presidential campaign, because there has been a lot happening

out there. And we should start with one of the leading Republican candidates having to spend a week governing because something very serious was happening in his state. Hurricane Idalia slammed into Florida this week and took Florida Governor Ron DeSantis off the campaign trail. It absolutely did. And a hurricane is one of those things that just demands a governor's full attention. And that's a difficult thing, perhaps, for a governor to do when the Iowa caucuses are just four and a half months away. But duty does call. And Governor DeSantis was off the campaign trail. He was back in Florida dealing with the preparations for the hurricane. He was issuing warnings for people to take this seriously, evacuate, seek cover, get to a safe place. And then, you know, luckily for everyone, this hurricane was not like Katrina.

It was not like Hurricane Andrew or any one of a number of truly, truly, you know, just horrific scenes that can be created for these things. And it has moved through, but now he's dealing with the aftermath and even, worth noting here, having communication with the guy he's criticizing every single day on the campaign trail, President Biden, who has offered emergency assistance, and the two are going to meet. We'll get this side-by-side view of

the president and the governor who seeks to kick him out of office. The White House has insisted that this will actually be the third disaster visit that these two have done together since President Biden took office, and that they get along just fine when it comes to helping the American people and helping the people of Florida. And that's the thing with these crises, right, is there's always pressure on politicians to, I mean, you would like to think that these things don't get politicized, but they certainly do. And, you know, President Biden was criticized by Republicans for, in many of their view, not going to Hawaii soon enough after the wildfires. So how they respond is something that's watched closely, and it can create an opportunity for the other side to say, you know, they're not very good at this job. And so it is interesting to sort of observe the

dynamic. It will be interesting to observe the dynamic between the two of them. And let's just say that the hurricane response led by Governor DeSantis a year ago became an important part of his quite successful reelection campaign for governor. Let's move to someone who has not had success. The Republican presidential field this cycle is huge. Lots of people think they have a chance, though obviously former President Trump has a huge chunk of the market share at this point. This week, the first candidate dropped out. Miami Mayor Francis Suarez, we hardly knew you, and now you've officially dropped out of the presidential campaign.

Yes, somehow we're still talking about Florida, aren't we? But yeah, you know, he thought he made the debate stage initially. I was just in Milwaukee for the debate last week. And as we know, he did not meet the threshold. And he'd said, you know, anybody who doesn't make that cut shouldn't be in the race, right? And so I guess he was kind of forced to keep his word here and drop out of the race. But it is hard to sustain a campaign when you can't even get on the stage? He did have the number of individual donations one needed to get onto that debate stage. And as Sarah said, he thought he had made the stage based on polling. But the RNC, when they released the final list, said, sorry, you don't make the cut. So he did keep his promise. He immediately suspended his campaign. And now here we are with this announcement. Well, and one of the ways that he was able to meet that donor threshold to get the number of individual donations he needed was early on in his campaign. He created this sweepstakes where if you just donated a dollar, you could possibly win tickets to see the soccer great Lionel Messi play in Miami. Anyone who wants to see him play his first game, I think it's July 21st.

We have, what's that? Just give a dollar. Venmo. One last story from the campaign trail this week. Vivek Ramaswamy made waves at the Iowa State Fair recently performing Eminem's Lose Yourself, a great song. And it was apparently like an old party trick from his college days. Wow, that is intense. He was really intense. Yes, that was not. He was really intense. Does that take you guys back? Yes, that was not the real Slim Shady. But the inevitable has occurred.

Marshall Mathers, the real Slim Shady, has asked Vivek Ramaswamy to cut it out. Actually, the licensing company BMI withdrew its permission for the Ramaswamy campaign to use the song. And Don, this is a story as old as time. It absolutely is. And BMI did it in the most legalistic terms. Can I read it? I just love to say these words. Yes, please. BMI will consider any performance of the Eminem Works by the Vivek 2024 campaign from this date forward to be a material breach of the agreement for which BMI reserves all rights, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then it ends with the word there too. So here's what's unusual, right? Ramaswamy actually said, oh, you don't want me to sing

your song? I'll stop if those are your wishes. This is what is practically unheard of, right? I mean, those of us who've been covering Donald Trump, but it also goes back to previous campaigns. It goes back to the Ronald Reagan campaign when Bruce Springsteen said, please don't play Born in the USA. First, you're misunderstanding the lyrics. Second, I don't want my song associated with your campaign. Trump got letters or complaints from the Rolling Stones, from Neil Young, from Adele, because he has that kind of a baby boomer playlist that he plays before his rallies. Please stop, you don't have permission to use our song. And he pretty much just ignored it. There is a legal loophole that Trump was able to exploit. When he's at an arena and he's blasting Elton John's Funeral for a Friend

or the Rolling Stones' You Can't Always Get What You Want, while it is a playlist built by the campaign that travels with them from arena to arena to arena, from minor league hockey stadium to minor league hockey stadium, the campaign can do this under the rights that each of these arenas pay to the publishing companies to allow them to play songs during the game, to play a pop song during the seventh inning stretch, whatever it is. So any music that is played at the arena is covered under that deal. So in this case, an M&M or a Rolling Stones can complain all they want, but they're already getting paid. And technically, it's the arena that has the permission to use it. And thus,

the campaign can tap into that. It's one of those odd little loopholes. But the musician gets to be on the record saying, I do not endorse this message. That is key. And then it's up to the candidate whether or not they want to continue to play a song by someone who will use every moment they can to say they don't have permission to use my song. In fact, I don't support them. I support their opponent. All right.

Well, it is time for a quick break. And when we get back, it'll be time for Can't Let It Go. And we're back and it is time for Can't Let It Go, the part of the pod where we talk about the things from the week that we cannot stop thinking about, politics or otherwise. Don Gagne, what can you not let go of? One Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher. Okay. I'll give you a moment. He is better known as Joe the Plumber, and he became famous very briefly during the 2008 presidential campaign. He worked for a plumbing company in Toledo, Ohio. President-to-be Barack Obama, a candidate at the time, was just kind of randomly working

Wurzelbacher's neighborhood. And he walked up to Obama and started complaining to him about Obama's proposed tax plans. Well, the reason why I ask you about the American dream, I mean, I've worked hard. I'm a plumber. You know, I work, you know, 10, 12 hours a day. And he said he wanted to buy his business and that Obama's policies would hurt him. He became an instant folk hero because the exchange was all captured on video. Before you know it, Joe the plumber, as he became known, was appearing at John McCain rallies.

He was invoked repeatedly at a presidential debate and became one of those little kind of oddball, out of nowhere celebrities of the campaign. The reason I'm thinking about him this week is, sadly, he has passed away. He was young, 49 years old. The cause was pancreatic cancer, his family announced this week. The last time people will recall probably hearing from Joe the Plumber was when he ran for Congress in 2012 in his hometown of Toledo. He won the primary, but ultimately lost in a landslide to the incumbent Democrat, Marcy Kaptur. Well, I have a semi-related can't let it go. Not that related. Well, it relates to the former president, Barack Obama. This is the nine year anniversary of that time he decided to wear a tan suit.

So this was one of these micro scandals, not even a scandal. Don't know why this became such a very big deal. But you ended up with Republican Congressman Peter King doing multiple cable hits, including on CNN, where he criticized the president's choice of suit for a press conference he held at the White House. You know, the image makers in the White House, here's a president coming out of such a serious moment where he should be addressing the country on such a serious matter. And he looked like he was on his way to a party at the Hamptons. Presidents usually wear dark suits, though they have been known to wear tan suits. Imagine if it had been seersucker. Sarah, what can't you let go of? Well, mine actually is not politics. At least it's not domestic politics. It might be a little bit of

international diplomacy. I don't know. But Dahlia Parton, the queen, said no to Kate Middleton, the princess. So apparently, she told the BBC in an interview this week that she was asked if she was going to be seeing more of London while she was over there. She has a new rock album coming out. And she was over in the UK, and she was asked if she was going to get to see more of London. And she just kind of casually mentioned that Kate Middleton had invited her to tea. And she didn't have time to go to tea with the princess, which I feel like is just such a power move. But like an unintentional, low-key, Dolly Parton kind of power move. And she did joke that she couldn't do it because the princess wasn't going to promote her album, which I love. I just think it's so

cheeky and so Dolly. Dolly, Dawn, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Dolly actually turned down a Presidential Medal of Freedom or Honor or one of these. She turned down induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, though now she's made a rock album. So she initially said that she didn't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it's an honor that she did ultimately accept. She's just the queen. You're right, Sarah. She doesn't need it, you know? Yeah.

She's Dolly. And maybe she doesn't like tea. Who knows? All right, that is it for today. Our executive producer is Mathani Mathuri. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our producers are Elena Moore and Casey Morrell. Thanks to Krishnadev Kalamer and Lexi Schipittel. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House.

I'm Sarah McCammon. I cover the campaign. And I'm Don Gagne. I cover national politics. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.