The NPR Politics Podcast - White House Unveils 20-Point Gaza Peace Plan

Episode Date: September 30, 2025

President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced a plan that could yield an end to the war in Gaza. But Hamas was not involved in crafting the 20-point plan, and it’s not clear whether they will agree to it. We discuss what benefits the plan has for each side and how the United States’ involvement fits into Trump’s America-first vision.This episode: voting and election security correspondent Miles Parks, White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez, and national security correspondent Greg Myre.This podcast was produced by Casey Morell & Bria Suggs, and edited by Rachel Baye. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Support for NPR and the following message comes from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. RWJF is a national philanthropy, working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege but a right. Learn more at RWJF.org. Hi, this is Matt. I just got home from a seven-hour hike up Mount Chavino outside Ponderosa Springs, Colorado. You are listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. This episode was recorded at 105 p.m. on Tuesday, September 30th, 2025.

Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I will have had some protein, a shower, and a good night's sleep. Okay, here's the show. Very impressive. And a glass of water, I hope. I feel like hydration's important after a seven-hour high. There's something about our listeners. I always feel very lazy after hearing the time of stand.

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Frank Ordonez. I cover the White House. I'm Greg Myrie. I cover national security. And today on the show, a new proposal for peace in Gaza. President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced a plan yesterday that if Hamas agrees to it, which is a big if, would end the war in Gaza. And Franco, this is a pretty complicated 20-point plan. Can you just explain the key details?

Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of them. And it's a big deal if this, you know, goes through as is. The key details are the release of the remaining hostages, those that are living. as well as those that are dead. You know, within 72 hours of the deal being signed, 2,000 Palestinian prisoners and detainees would be released. Aid would get into the region faster. And then there's some of the very controversial stuff.

Hamas would relinquish power and give up their weapons and that all military infrastructure, including tunnels, would be destroyed. I mean, what about the future of government in Gaza? and specifically what happens to the displaced people are 2 million people who live there. And I know Trump had floated this idea of redeveloping it. What does that look like? Yeah, I mean, Trump is actually going to have a very big hand in the future if this were to go through. This plan calls for, you know, deploying an international security force and installing a, quote, board of peace.

This board would be led by Trump as well as former British Prime Minister Tony Blair. and they would kind of oversee Gaza's administration and reconstruction. And it would also include kind of this transitional, apolitical, Palestinian committee, again, supervised by the Board of Peace. And the future of that board is very, very uncertain. And again, it's just one of the many, many examples that is going to raise some skepticism because Hamas would not have anything to do with it. Well, that's what I was going to ask you, Greg. I mean, am I right in thinking that this plan sounds very Israel friendly. I mean, even there, I know there was a detail that Israel gets to keep troops on the ground in Gaza. Yeah, Miles, you're absolutely right. I mean, Netanyahu

has said since the beginning of the war that Hamas would be totally destroyed. And very unlike the previous conflicts, when things would heat up in Gaza on a smaller scale, Israel would deliver a blow, but Hamas would stay in power. Israel would call it mowing the grass. Now, the previous negotiations during this last two years of war have included some things for both sides. More things Israel wanted than the Palestinians, but there were some give and take there. It was a negotiation. This plan is overwhelmingly in line with Israel's goals, offers almost nothing to the Palestinians. And it raises the question, you know, what if Hamas rejects this? Is this sort of a cover for Netanyahu and Israel to continue the war. Trump did address this. We can hear what he said on Monday.

If Hamas rejects the deal, which is always possible, they're the only one left. Everyone else has accepted it. But I have a feeling that we're going to have a positive answer. But if not, as you know, baby, you'd have our full backing to do what you would have to do. So there's Trump, standing up in front of the world, basically giving Netanyahu a free hand. and this comes at a time when an Israeli military operation in Gaza City, the main city in the territory, is already underway, and Netanyahu responded as well. But if Hamas rejects your plan, Mr. President, or if they supposedly accept it and then basically do everything to counter it, then Israel will finish the job by itself. this can be done the easy way or it can be done the hard way

but it will be done well then I feel like there is this natural question of why would Hamas agree to such a deal if there is so little in this plan that advantages them yeah Miles this would effectively be a surrender or a capitulation by Hamas as Franco noted Hamas would have to give up its one card that it can play

which is giving up the hostages both those that are alive and those that are dead, give up its weapons, allow Israeli troops to remain in Gaza. Hamas was formed almost 40 years ago. They've ruled Gaza since 2007. They're a calling card. They have always portrayed themselves as the leader of the Palestinian resistance to Israel. And they would be publicly giving up on this role. And it would be a huge admission of failure that the attack they launched two years ago has come to this point. And no clear indication if the group does accept that, again, a big if, but not clear what they would do next or how they would be seen or treated by Palestinians. Do we have any sense of the timeline at this point on when we expect Hamas to have an answer on this? Trump was asked about that earlier today when he was on his way to speak to some military generals.

And he said that they were going to give Hamas three or four days. Now, could there be more time than that? You know, let's see. Greg has talked about before that we can anticipate Hamas. will, you know, respond and maybe have their own input to add. But it does seem clear that Trump is expecting an answer pretty soon. Hamas seems to be indicating that they're going to give an answer on Wednesday. They said they just got the plan. They were not direct participants in it. Hamas says they received the plan. They're studying it. And they're expecting to provide an answer

on Wednesday. Now, in the past, there has been back and forth. But this is being presented as a plan, not a negotiation, take it or leave it. Is there any sense of what the rest of the world feels about this plan, you know, other countries in the region and countries in Europe, for instance? I mean, it's gotten a lot of support internationally. I mean, it's definitely from Europe, including from, you know, countries that had called for recognition of a Palestinian state. And yes, also across the Middle East, you know, a number of countries, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Indonesia, Pakistan, all welcome the policy. plan, and actually in a statement called it sincere, you know, they pointed to the point that

Palestinians would not be displaced. And that's a significant deal because we'll remember in earlier comments by Trump, you know, he talked about relocating Palestinians, creating a Gaza Riviera. Well, this plan actually encourages Palestinians to stay and says they want to make a better future. I think the question with kind of some of that support, from the region, as well as from the European leaders who are calling for a Palestinian state, there is question about whether it's kind of like there's no real other option at this point. We may have just reached that point, which you do hit in wars, where one side feels it just can't go on. And these may be things that Hamas has rejected through this war and for many years in the past,

but have reached a point where they feel they have no choice and may have to accept things that they have always rejected in the past. All right, well, let's take a quick break, but I want to get more into America's involvement in the future of Gaza right after this. Support for NPR, and the following message comes from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. RWJF is a national philanthropy, working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege but a right. Learn more at RWJF.org. And we're back, and we've been talking about the Gaza peace deal that President Trump announced yesterday. And Franco, I want to dig a little bit more into the politics. here for Trump, because he is already celebrating this as a win, even though, as we know, with

everything in this part of the world, I feel like this is just the beginning of a very long process. Yeah, I mean, for sure. I mean, Trump likes big announcements. He likes to claim victory, declare victory. And I think this is one of those cases where, you know, he's declaring victory and, you know, the results, the outcome is still very uncertain. And there are countless cases like this where President Trump has announced, you know, big agreements, you know, most recently on tariffs and particularly some of the other conflicts that President Trump claims to have solved and resolved. And there's a lot of uncertainty about where those are going to go. You know, and again, without Hamas playing a role, I mean, there's just so much skepticism about this role.

But Trump is about the headlines. You know, he's got the foreign leader, Bibi Netanyahu, in the White House, you know, giving him such praise, such flowery language. So this is definitely a victory lap for Trump. In Trump's perspective, he may be seeing another victory lap later on if this thing is resolved. And if it isn't resolved, he still gets the victory lap and he says, hey, I gave it my best effort. One of the things that I don't fully understand, Greg, here is this plan involves a pretty, in the weeds involvement from the U.S. government in the future of Gaza, specifically from President Trump being a part of this potential future governing body. Yet on the campaign trail

last year, I feel like he was pretty adamant that his view of America was a more isolationist view, that he didn't want to get America involved in the sort of nation building that the country has been involved in in the past. How do you square those things? Right. Well, this is just a contradiction. I don't know that you can square it. We've seen Trump get involved in a number of foreign conflicts, whether it was bombing Iran, whether it was a brief war against the Houthis in Yemen, bombing boats from Venezuela. The difference, though, is those events were kind of things that were very self-contained. Trump could do them, start them, stop them. It didn't require any long-term commitment. This is different. If you get involved in the Middle East and get sucked in,

it is a long-term effort. And no U.S. president has been successful. You can literally go back to Harry Truman, who recognized the state of Israel and the first war between Israelis and Palestinian. Every single president since the late 1940s has been involved in this in some way. Trump's approach, I would say, is somewhat different in the past couple decades or even 30 years we've been talking about a two-state solution, a state for the Palestinians, and that would lead to security and the elimination of a threat to Israel. Trump has taken a very different approach. He's been very much supportive of Israel and what it wants in numerous occasions. And he also likes to talk about doing deals with the wealthy Arab countries in the region. It says very little about the

Palestinians or talks about statehood or other things that they want or need. And just to pull that together, this plan of his says very, very little. There's one very, very, very. vague reference here about a possibility of a Palestinian state. And it just says if this progress goes well, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood. But it seems that that was almost thrown in as boilerplate. And there's just nothing that really sounds substantive, certainly to Palestinian ears. You know, I'll say that this, you know, this approach that Trump has had in the Middle East overseas has created. somewhat of a rift within the Republican Party, particularly when it comes to, you know, the

conflict in Gaza with Marjorie Taylor Green, who has raised a lot of concerns. She's not the only one who have made cases that this is kind of against the America first ethos of focusing on domestic issues first. And now you have a plan, a 20-point plan that puts Trump as the chair of the Board of peace leading the, you know, administration reconstruction of a new Gaza. I mean, Trump promised to end the conflict in Gaza as well as in Ukraine. So this is not entirely out of his purview. I think what the administration would tell you is that his approach to foreign policy, though, is very different than other presidents in that these issues are more focused on U.S. interests or Trump's perspective at what U.S. interests are and less focused on what is in the best interests of, say, Europe.

This is more interested on U.S. interests. And Israel, you know, as Greg was just pointing out, Trump and Israel and the Republican Party in Israel have been kind of going in lockstep for quite a while. Well, I do think it's interesting to zero in specifically on Israel's stance here as we come up on two years of the Hamas attack in Israel. I guess how has Israel's posture changed in those two years, Greg? Yeah, we've seen this dramatic reversal from what happened on October 7th when Hamas attacked. Israel's vaunted military looked very vulnerable, unprepared. Israel suffered its biggest blow in decades, perhaps even in its history, you could argue. Since that day, Israel has had a remarkable string of military and national security successes, decimating Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the Iranian leadership, and its nuclear. program. And although not, they weren't directly involved, the dictator Bashar al-Assad was was kicked out of Syria. So all of these threats that were there two years ago have either been eliminated or greatly reduced. If you're just looking at through the lens of national security, tremendous success for Israel. Then, of course, you look at its international standing, which has been badly tarnished. It's isolation, which has increased dramatically. Its support, which now is essentially the United States in terms of big powers. It still has relations with other countries, but they're in very, a very tenuous, difficult position. So there's been this real split in terms of

military victories and reputational damage. And these are both things that Israel is going to have to carry with it as we go forward. All right. Well, we can leave it there for today. We are going to keep watching what happens with this deal in the coming days. I'm Miles Parks. I cover voting. I'm Frank Oudanians. I cover the White House. I'm Greg Myrie. I cover national security. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. Support for NPR, and the following message comes from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. RWJF is a national philanthropy working toward a future where health is no longer a privilege but a right.

Learn more at RWJF.org.