The NPR Politics Podcast - Who Will Joe Biden Pick As His Running Mate?

Episode Date: July 29, 2020

NPR has profiled a series of women thought to be under consideration to serve as Joe Biden's running mate. They include Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth, Karen Bass, and Susan Rice.You can find all of our profiles here.This episode: congressional correspondent Susan Davis, campaign correspondent Asma Khalid, and campaign correspondent Scott Detrow.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Sydney and I'm here with my parents, Scott and Sandy, and right now we're driving home to Durham, North Carolina from Keystone, Colorado. This podcast was recorded at 1.44 p.m. on Wednesday, July 29th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but we'll probably still be driving through the very, very wide state of Kansas. Enjoy the show. Sounds like a beautiful drive. I've done those Midwest drives before. It's amazing. It's like you really don't know when you enter one state and exit the other till Google tells you.

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the presidential campaign. And I'm Scott Detrow. I also cover the campaign. So Joe Biden is closing in on his running mate. Speaking to reporters in Delaware yesterday, he said he'll announce his pick next week. I'm going to have a choice in the first week in August. And I promise I'll let you know when I do. So we're going to talk all about the contenders, at least as we know them. But before we get into it, Scott, what do we know about what factors Biden is putting into this decision? There's two big factors. And I think in this race, there's a third one as well. And

the interesting thing is they don't necessarily overlap at all. The first is the political factor, somebody to help you win the White House. Often that's more about shoring up your own party than winning over other independent voters. It's about, you know, if you're a moderate, somebody who's more progressive. If you're somebody like President Donald Trump was four years ago, it's about reassuring the Republican Party and picking someone who's a pretty standard issue Republican like Mike Pence. So that's number one. Number two is somebody who helps you, assuming you win, to help you govern. That's the type of pick that Joe Biden was to Barack Obama, although he certainly had a lot of value on the electoral front as well. Obama was thinking, I'm pretty new in Washington and I have a ton of foreign policy experience.

A veteran like Joe Biden will help me govern. So those are the main ones. And then this year, as we've talked about before, there's this dynamic that Joe Biden is 77 years old. He often talks about himself as a transition figure. He has not said so out loud, but there's a lot of thinking that if he wins, he'd probably only serve one term. So whoever he picks as vice president, I think there's going to be a lot of outsized focus on her as the possible future leader of the Democratic Party.

Asma, we know that Biden had essentially locked up the nomination in the springtime, March, April, he was on track to win it. But the whole world has changed since then, or at least the whole political universe. Do you think that that is playing into who he's going to pick? Well, I know we can say that he has definitely received a lot of pressure to choose a black woman, in part because of the protests we've seen around racial justice issues. And I would say that pressure has certainly stepped up and become more intense in the last couple of months. You know, he is noncommittal whenever he's asked about ensuring that he'll choose a black woman or choose a candidate of color as his running mate. But that pressure is there. And, you know, we see some

polling indicate that, you know, some 45 percent of Democrats also agree with that idea. I think the other thing, though, that to me has become more urgent as a result of COVID is making sure that he has somebody who is able to govern on day one if necessary. And this is something that I've heard from people who have helped in VP selections in the past. They say that that's often one of the most important criteria. I think it has become even more salient as a result of COVID. So if we want to talk about contenders, I think the one name that is in the top of everyone's speculative list is California Senator Kamala Harris. Yeah, I mean, Kamala Harris has been thought of as Joe Biden's likely running mate for so long

that this was actually an issue when she was running to be president herself to the point where at one point in 2019, she had to address it in the press conference said, Yeah, you know what, Joe Biden would be a great running mate. He could be my vice president. Of course, that's not how things worked out for Kamala Harris. But there's been that thinking all along, because if you look at the Balancing Act, that's a big part of being vice president. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden certainly have that. She is a woman who's younger than him. He is certainly an older white man. I mean, that's the first thing. But it's also a generational difference. It's the fact that she is just one of a handful, one of only two women, African-American women, to become a U.S. senator.

And no black woman has ever become a governor. So especially in an environment where you're thinking about elevating a woman of color and there's a ton of pressure to do so, Kamala Harris is really one of just a few people who really checks all of the traditional boxes. Also, Biden was photographed this week, and photographers zoomed in on the piece of paper in his hand, and it had sort of like crib notes on Kamala Harris, which I think is fueling this idea that she's at the top of the list. And I like that one of the notes that Biden had to himself was, was it do not hold grudges? I mean, certainly the awkward thing here is that probably the high point of her presidential campaign, the point when she really started to pull well that didn't last, was after that first debate when she made headlines by really going after Joe Biden in a really hard way, saying that early in his Senate career, he had opposed federal busing mandates that created some problems for Joe Biden at the time. You know, we have heard some rumblings from some of his allies that that was a personal blow. But I've also heard a lot of people say, Joe Biden's been in politics his whole his whole adult life, he understands how debates and

campaigns are one thing and governing is another thing and that he might not necessarily view that as a strike against her. All these candidates have certain strengths and weaknesses. But to me, Harris's weakness is she isn't exactly the progressive that many people in the party would want to see on the ticket. I mean, the name you hear among progressives so often is Elizabeth Warren. They still just love her. What would she bring to a ticket, Asma? You know, part of what she brings to the ticket is certainly progressive credibility amongst a certain part of the Democratic electorate. But the other thing that I think is really interesting is that she brings a certain level of like executive government competency. And this is something I heard when I profiled her from Barney Frank, right? Longtime Massachusetts politician.

But he spoke about her role in creating the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and talked about the relationship she has in her worldview with Joe Biden. But they also don't know that that's certainly going to be relevant, in part because you got to deal with the Senate and the Senate may or may not let you go as far left as Elizabeth Warren wants to go. And so I think what I hear from people a lot about Warren is when you're looking for someone who understands how to get things done, who is sort of competent, who is a policy wonk, she has a lot of credibility amongst a whole bunch of Democratic circles. The last time we had this conversation, the list was a lot longer, at least of potential senators. But some of those senators have taken themselves out of contention. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada. There's at least one other senator still in the conversation, Tammy Duckworth. She's a Democrat from Illinois. I don't know where she sort of ranks in the likely listing, but she has sort of that compelling kind of background that people often look for. She's a decorated combat veteran. She lost her legs in combat. She's a woman and she was the first senator to give birth

in office. I mean, she's a natural running mate for Joe Biden in the fact that she is an Illinois senator who partially grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii. And Joe Biden shared a ticket with another person who checked all those boxes as well. But I mean, I think the draw for her is obviously that armed services background. And I think she's somebody who can make a very forceful case for herself. And I think that's impressed a lot of Democrats, especially in this era of really thinking about, is there a woman of color that can be on the ticket? All right, let's take a quick break. And when we come back, more on Biden's possible running mates. Support for this podcast and the following message come from the Annie E. Casey Foundation, developing solutions to support strong families and communities to help ensure a brighter future

for America's children. More information is available at AECF.org. How do you maintain a friendship in the middle of a pandemic? More information is available at a Minute from NPR. And we're back and we had a little bit of technical difficulties. So, Scott, I think you have a change of scenery going on right now. I am. I'm living the working from home life. I am sitting on my front stoop because my cell reception was fritzing in the basement and my son is napping upstairs. So you might hear a lawnmower. Neighbors mowing the lawn, you know. Anything for the pod. So we were talking about the senators that are in contention for possibly being Joe Biden's running mate.

But I think it's worth noting that there are also a couple of congresswomen in the House who have also been talked about in this space. One we've talked about before, Val Deming. She's a Democrat from Florida. I think not as well known, but many people got to know her because she was an impeachment manager, former police chief. And another one that I think has gotten more buzz of late is Karen Bass. She's a Democrat from California. And right now she's the chair of the Congressional Black Caucus. Now, Sue, you actually have covered her more than Asma or me, given the fact that you've covered the Hill for so long. What should we know about her? You know, I think she's one of the people that is benefiting from the moment in that obviously she's a woman which checks the box that Biden said very clearly he's looking for. She's African American, which a lot of people in the Democratic Party are looking for.

And on the issues of the moment that matter so much, especially to Democratic voters, but increasingly to swing voters and other voters, racial justice, social justice. She's kind of been there all along. She has a long record on that. And I think, especially on the issue of police reform, she's been really prominent in this country. So she's kind of benefiting from checking a lot of the boxes at the right time at the right moment. And I think one of the things giving her a little bit of buzz this week is Joe Biden came up to Capitol Hill to pay his respects to John Lewis. And he was seen speaking directly with Karen Bass. They were walking together through the rotunda. And so whenever Biden makes a point to talk to anyone right now on Capitol Hill, I think it's going to help fuel that speculation that, hey, you know, maybe this is someone that people should be watching. And that feels like the perfect moment to make

the very important point that the things that drive the narrative and drive the conversation ahead of a VP selection are often the most arbitrary things. Like Joe Biden was walking down the hall at the Capitol because the fact is the people who are most important here, and that's really just Joe and Joe Biden and a handful of aides, are not saying anything to anybody. So the nuggets we've all been able to glean might not necessarily matter. Yeah. And I think it's like we put, we're trying to piece this together because we know the things that people look for in vice presidents. And the thing that I think that Bass has is she checks the do no harm box. She is, I would say, someone who's seen as really poised, really unflappable. She's not someone known. She speaks very carefully. If you were looking for a

candidate, you know, Joe Biden can make his own guess. If you're looking for someone to balance out who's never going to say the inappropriate thing, Bass seems like the kind of sort of steady hand that would not cause a news cycle because of something that she said. Though I think one of the reasons why Kamala Harris still does remain the favorite is that I think it's a pretty tough jump to go from a congressional seat to vice president. Yeah. And though at the same time, that's why I think in this conversation, it's interesting that we haven't really talked about governors because you think that governors usually are at the very top of a VP search list because they, again, check that ready on day one box. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's

interesting, Sue, because there are two governors in particular whose names have come up, and that's Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Michelle Lujan Grisham of New Mexico. And both of them on paper have these resumes that you would think would be very appealing to Joe Biden in terms of picking a VP. I think what's, you know, interesting to me in this moment is that there is somewhat of a risk in choosing a governor in this moment because, yes, they are the ones who have the executive experience governing in the midst of this pandemic. But, you know, say Joe Biden selects Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, and then Michigan has a resurgence of COVID cases. That becomes something that Joe Biden and his campaign then also have to answer for. And I just think it's really hard to campaign and govern your state in the midst of a pandemic at the same time. Especially in a state like Michigan that's had a pretty bad case of the pandemic.

So you would just look like you were not doing your day job. And that seems like a really hard thing to sell to the country right now, if what they're looking for is like competency in addressing the pandemic, ultimately. That being said, I do think that Joe Biden has, at times, seemed to struggle more with the Latino community than even Hillary Clinton did at this point. And Michelle Lujan Grisham is a Latina. I think some people feel like having a Latina on the ticket might help him with a demographic group that he needs to do better with, it seems. Though, Asma, I think we should point out that one thing you and I have heard a lot from a lot of different groups is that, you know, when it comes to Black voters, when it comes to Latina voters, policy is really important too. And just having a person of that demographic on the ticket doesn't necessarily solve all those problems. Sure. The only other name that I think is worth mentioning, because you hear it come up a lot, is Susan Rice, the former National Security

Advisor during the Obama administration. She's definitely the person on the list who Biden knows the most. You know, they both dealt with a ton of national security issues, were in the Oval Office a lot together. But again, coming back to this, the same theme. She is someone who not only has not held statewide office, she's never held any office. She is somebody who's worked the bulk of her career in the State Department, at the United Nations, in the executive branch. All right. I think we have to leave it there. Although I just want to say that I am really looking forward to us having to do the podcast when Biden picks none of these people.

And we will collectively eat crow for our listeners. I'm Susan Davis. I cover Congress. I'm Asma Khalid. I'm covering the presidential campaign. I'm Scott Detrow. I also cover the campaign and I'm having a real 2020 day. I am now back on the back porch because the lawnmower came around to the front. So can't wait till we're all in a studio again someday down the line. Miss your faces. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.