The NPR Politics Podcast - Why Does Donald Trump Want Greenland?

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

First floated in President Trump's first term, talks of the United States annexing or otherwise acquiring Greenland have escalated in recent weeks. With the vice president and other government officials heading to the world's largest island this week, what's behind Trump's fascination with the Danish territory? This episode: political correspondent Susan Davis, White House correspondent Deepa Shivaram, and national security correspondent Greg Myre.The podcast is produced by Bria Suggs & Kelli Wessinger and edited by Casey Morell. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself at mintmobile.com slash switch. This is Christina from Glen Ellyn, Illinois. We are in the middle of false spring here in the Midwest. Yesterday, I was in a t-shirt, and today it's snowing. This podcast was recorded at 1220 p.m. on Wednesday, March 27th. Things may have changed by the time you hear this, but I am really hoping we get back to warmer weather by the end of this podcast.

My heart goes out to you. Me too. I hate that false spring that you get all the promise and the sunshine and then you got to get out the winter jacket again. The spring of deception. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover politics. I'm Deepa Sivaram.

I cover the White House. And I'm Greg Myrie. I cover national security. And today on the show, a look at why President Trump is so interested in annexing Greenland. This is not a new idea. Trump floated it during his first term, but what's different this time is just how seriously the Trump administration is talking about such a move. The vice president, second lady, and other administration officials are headed to Greenland to visit a U.S. military base in the northern part of the country.

Greg, let's start with the big picture here. Why is the U.S. so interested in acquiring Greenland? Well, I think we could point to three reasons. One is minerals. Greenland has a lot of them. It's the biggest island in the world. It's got a lot of stuff that has not been mined. Things like cobalt, nickel, lithium. Now these are things we use in batteries, cell phones, electric vehicles, so civilian and military uses. This is the thing that seems to animate Trump the most. He does bring this up when he talks about Greenland. A second thing would be Arctic seaways. Climate change means there's less ice in the Arctic. Some of the previously unnavigable

sea lanes are now opening up. Russia is considered the real leader in this, so the US is somewhat concerned for security reasons. Number three is the military presence. Really interesting history here. The US has had a military base in Greenland since World War II. After the Nazis seized Denmark, Greenland, which was a colony of Denmark at that time, was defenseless, all on its own. The US set up a base there during World War II. That base is now in the far northwest in the Arctic Circle. It is largely a radar system that would detect the launch of nuclear weapons from Russia or China, which would travel over the Arctic. And perhaps the US would be interested

in expanding it. Danielle Pletka Greg, I have a specific question about the minerals. Is there also potentially a China nexus there as the US seeks to be less reliant on China for those kinds of resources? Greg Foss Oh, absolutely. China has been very aggressive in getting access to rare earth minerals, both inside China and in other parts of the globe, making deals and mining deals in particular around the world. The U.S. seems to have lagged behind in a number of places. So this is a place that's really untapped. Again, Greenland is absolutely massive and a lot of that has not been mined at this point.

It has a lot of these key minerals. So catching up with China or not being as vulnerable and dependent on China would be a big part of the equation. Deepa, just yesterday President Trump was talking about acquiring Greenland in the Oval Office. This is what he said. We need Greenland for national security and international security. So we'll, I think we'll go as far as we have to go. We need Greenland and the world needs us to have Greenland, including Denmark. Denmark has to have us have Greenland. Important note here, Deepa, neither Denmark nor Greenland want the US to take control of the island. How does this attitude from Trump align with other attitudes towards foreign policy and

sort of the relationship with other countries in the world? Yeah, I would say like just off the bat, I mean, foreign policy in a Joe Biden administration, for example, or a different administration, you know, a lot of it happens behind the scenes. So much of the negotiations and the handshakes and the deal breaking all happens like in a very not public sphere, right? And in a Trump administration, it's like all of it happens right out loud. And so you're seeing this sort of like back and forth, if you want to call it that, in a very public setting.

And it's just interesting because Trump, like you said, has been talking about taking Greenland for a while now. And it's something that he's, like you said, has been talking about taking Greenland for a while now. And it's something that he's just made so, so public. Even in his first address, the Joint Adjust to Congress that happened earlier this month, he said something along the lines of, we're going to have it one way or another when he was talking about Greenland. And it just has been this shift of, okay, we're not really sure if he means this. And then he never stopped talking about it.

And now he's really sort of shifted his tone to make it really about international security talking about Russia and China Talking about how it is a need to you know, keep troops safe and and keep the region safe And that has been the expanded rhetoric that he's been using This is a topic that has come up again and again and again. You could say he can't let it go that has come up again and again and again. You could say he can't let it go. Greg, there's something to me very contradictory here in that the concept of this is sort of American expansion and that seems to run very counter to the sort of America first isolation argument that the Trump administration ran and won on and also at the same time an administration that's taking a much more

hostile position towards European allies. Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, it is hard to sort this out. As soon as Trump came into office, he again continued his criticisms of Europe and NATO, saying Europe and NATO are not contributing enough. They need to provide for their own security. And what got a lot of attention was when Vice President Vance went to the Munich Security Conference last month and gave a very harsh

speech directed toward Europe. And it wasn't just about security cooperation between the US and Europe. He talked about their immigration policies and was very critical of their democracies, of their security. And yet at the same time, Trump and Vance are talking about this expansionist approach to Greenland, that they want Greenland, which again is a semi-autonomous part of a European country. So it's kind of, which is it? Do you want to distance yourself from Europe and leave Europe and its own security to its own devices? Or does the U.S. want to become more involved by annexing Greenland, as Trump keeps talking about? So it's somewhat

a mixed message, and JD Vance has kind of been at the center of this message as well as Trump. All right. Let's take a quick break, and we'll talk more about this when we get back. This message comes from Wwise, the app for doing things in other currencies. Sending or spending money abroad, hidden fees may be taking a cut. With Wyse, you can convert between up to 40 currencies at the mid-market exchange rate. Visit Wyse.com. TNCs apply. This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less, and all plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself at mintmobile.com slash switch.

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They offer premium wireless plans for less, and all plans include high-speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself at mintmobile.com slash switch. And we're back. And Deepa, let's talk a little bit more about the details of this trip. Can you say what we know about the itinerary and what the intent of it is? Yeah. So basically this all unfolded in the past five days, I would say. On Sunday, the White House announced that Second Lady Usha Vance was going to travel to Greenland with one of her young sons, and they were going to go on a cultural trip, essentially, like

look at Greenlandic heritage and go to cultural sites. They were going to attend the national dogs led race in Greenland, which is a really big deal. It involves like 400 dogs. And that sort of came across as like a, okay, we're just kind of going to see the sites trip. At the same time, Mike Waltz, who's the president's national security advisor, was going to go to visit a US military base

as a separate thing. There was going to be a US delegation coming. All of this was happening without really an invite from political leaders in Greenland or Denmark. And the Greenlandic prime minister reacted and said it was very aggressive of US officials to come visit. They did not take it well.

There was a lot of negative reaction to all of it and the vice president JD Vance posted a video on social media and that sort of upended things and he said that he was going to visit with his wife. They were no longer going to the dog race. They're going to visit a space for space in Greenland and meet with service members there on Friday. And so that's the current itinerary. It's sort of shifted from this cultural visit to simply going to the US base there. I mean, protocol is a side issue here, but Deepa, I do think it's worth noting that it is very unusual for the US to announce a visit to a country to which they have not been invited to. Normally, there's a ton of protocol and pomp and circumstance around

these types of international trips. No, this is like, I think safe to say very upside down. This is not how it's typically done if you visit if you know when we as reporters travel with the president or vice president to a different country, just in terms of you know, what's going to happen when they're on the ground, there's all these logistics down to who is greeting, you know, the president or vice president and their team on the tarmac when Air Force One or Air Force Two arrives. There's a lot of detail and planning that goes into it,

including an invitation from the host country. In this case, there wasn't, it's not exactly clear what the invites were, I will say. The president said earlier this week that, people in Greenland were asking the U.S. to come and asking U.S. officials to come. He was saying they're, you know, asking us, we're not telling them or anything. It's not really clear who those invites were coming from, but I did confirm from the vice

president's office that Second Lady Usha Vance received, quote, multiple invitations to attend the dog sled race. The head of the dog sledding association had asked her to wave the flag to open the race. And so that was an invite. Whether there were more invites than that is a little bit unclear. But in the context of all of this, you know, this is happening and people in Greenland are not happy that the vice president and second lady are coming. Greg, one of the things I'm stuck on here is that it's kind of funny in a way that annexation is the focus because it's not like the US doesn't have a very long history of creating

military treaties with allies to basically get the result that Trump is seeking from the idea of buying Greenland. Like, aren't there other ways? Absolutely. You know, there's been that base there for decades. U.S. has military bases all over Europe. And officials in both Denmark and Greenland, journalists, others say that Greenland is open to an expanded U.S. presence.

In fact, they've even raised other issues where they would welcome more U.S. involvement, mining, as we mentioned, but tourism, fishing. So there's absolutely no opposition to a U.S. presence or expanded presence in Greenland, but the Denmark and Greenland say it should be done in a way that's mutual and that shouldn't be done through pressure or this talk of annexation. So that's the real head-scratcher here, And it kind of mirrors what we're also

seeing with Trump talking about Canada becoming the 51st state or reclaiming the Panama Canal, this sort of sense of taking over places that are absolutely friendly and cooperative and have a longstanding good relationship with the United States. I mean, historically speaking, the U. the US has expanded its territory over the years. So the concept of it isn't entirely new. But the idea of this to me, I just think about in the modern context, it raises just so many issues of acquiring an island and having to represent its people. Like from my vantage point, you're like, does that mean that Greenland would get representatives

in Congress, right? Do they have to be, you know, offered social security benefits? Do they have to be, you know, offered social security benefits? Do they have to provide them healthcare? Like the logistics of a modern-day land acquisition and the people that inhabit it are not as simple as I think maybe Trump is making it out to seem like, oh, we'll just annex Greenland and everything will be great. Yeah, that all just sort of ended really with World War II as European powers gave up their colonies and those became independent nations. And in fact, that's what happened here. Greenland was long a colony of Denmark.

And then I believe in the 1950s, again, shortly after World War II, it became this semi-autonomous place. It runs its own affairs domestically. Denmark is still responsible for foreign policy and defense in Greenland, but Trump seems to be really talking about something that's from a bygone era. S1C1 Deepa, I wish you were going to get to go as pool on this trip because it would be... Deepa I wish that too. I was really gunning for the dog sledding portion as well. Like, send me to Greenland. That's a great story.

S1C2 I don't know what to watch for next in this saga. And I think saga is the right word to describe this. But I imagine that one thing to be watching is how the US continues to sort of deal with Denmark in a diplomatic sense. Like, will they be invited here for a White House state dinner, for instance? Yeah, I was going to say, honestly, hard to say. And especially as you know, we've been talking about in this podcast, the way the Trump administration facilitates their foreign policy is not often something that you can pinpoint or predict

because the way Trump interacts is just so different than how foreign policy is typically done, like we mentioned earlier. So I don't know, to be honest with you, and I could see this going both ways where it somehow gets a little bit more receptive and friendly. We've seen leaders in Denmark respond to the updated itinerary if you will from

JD Vance and Uscha Vance and they're okay with the fact that they're visiting the US military base rather than going to the dog sledding you know competition but it could also you know really go the other direction and and I feel it could get maybe you know more contentious and more aggressive so we'll just have to wait and see. And I'll just make a related point. Today, France is hosting 30 European countries and Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky to talk about supporting Ukraine, the future of Ukraine. Now, in the past, under the Biden administration, this would have probably been the monthly meeting led by the US to talk

about Ukraine. But Europe is already responding to Trump's calls for it to take care of its own defense. So this is a meeting with all of the major European nations and the Ukrainian leadership, but the US is not part of it. So we're already seeing real world consequences based on Trump's statements about how he plans to deal with Europe. Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. All right, we'll leave it there for today. I'm Susan Davis.

I cover politics. I'm Deepa Sivaram. I cover the White House. And I'm Greg Myrie. I cover national security. And thanks for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from $15 a month.

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Hidden fees may be taking a cut. With Wyse, you can convert between up to 40 currencies at the mid-market exchange rate. Visit Wyze.com. TNCs apply. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans today at MintMobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for a 3-month 5GB plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available.

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