The NPR Politics Podcast - Why Is The National Guard Patrolling Streets In Washington, D.C.?

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

President Trump has ordered Washington, D.C.'s National Guard to patrol the capital's streets, and members from other states' Guards are joining them. We look at why the Guard is in D.C., what it is doing, and whether its presence points to future uses of the military in U.S. cities.This episode: senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith, Pentagon correspondent Tom Bowman, and national correspondent Brian Mann.This podcast was produced and edited by Casey Morell & Bria Suggs. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi.Listen to every episode of the NPR Politics Podcast sponsor-free, unlock access to bonus episodes with more from the NPR Politics team, and support public media when you sign up for The NPR Politics Podcast+ at plus.npr.org/politics.For handpicked podcast recommendations every week, subscribe to NPR's Pod Club newsletter at npr.org/podclub.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hi, this is Lillian in Portland, Oregon, where I just finished biking 207 miles from Seattle to Portland with my dad on a tandem in my first ever STP. This podcast is recorded at 132 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time on Monday the 18th of August. Things might have changed by the time you listen to this, but hopefully my legs will have recovered. Enjoy the show. Congratulations, that sounds like just a gorgeous bike ride. Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And NPR's Brian Mann is with us. Hi, Brian. Hi, guys. Thanks for having me. Glad to have you here. Today on the show, how the Trump administration is using the military in Washington, D.C. and how it could lead to more use of the military throughout the country. Brian, let's start with you. You've been out and about in Washington the last several days. How would you describe the military presence in the city? Yeah, mostly what I've been seeing, Tam, is National Guard units in sort of the tourist areas in kind of the high-end retail districts of the city, also on the mall near the big tourist destinations.

Occasionally, I've seen Humvees moving through the city in other areas. And on top of that, of course, there's this big deployment of federal agents, many of them masked from the FBI, from Homeland Security, from the Drug Enforcement Administration, on top of Metropolitan Police. So it's the presence of police throughout this city. On top of the National Guard, it's pervasive. Explain the justification here. President Trump has said that this is an emergency or has used emergency powers to bring in the National Guard. Is that supported by data? Local officials have not requested this.

That's another important step usually in our democracy that the National Guard comes when a governor or a mayor says, I need help. And here, local officials are saying we don't need help. And the crime statistics show that Washington, D.C. does have a problem with shootings and with murders. It's not a crime-free city for sure. But the number of violent incidents here has been plummeting since 2023. The statistics also for people living on the streets, living homeless or down, drug overdose deaths have been plunging. I have not been able to find a single. expert who said, you know, I perceive a crime emergency on the scale here that anyone would call

in the National Guard, let alone the President of the United States, over the views of local officials. Brian, we've talked about this on the pod before, but I think it's worth revisiting. The District of Columbia is unique. It is not like every other state or every other city in the country. And as a result of that, the President of the United States has more influence, more power, and he has now requested that National Guard troops from multiple other states be sent into the District of Columbia. Yeah, that's right. This is a very different place than most states. The president does have enormous power here and the ability to influence what local officials do. In declaring this emergency, he invoked a particular clause of the

Home Rule Act for the district that was established by Congress half a century ago. I think what most of the experts I've been talking to say is that as he often does, Trump has been pushing to the outer limits, the boundaries of his authority here. He's been extending this emergency. There's no sign of it ending, even though in theory he has only a 30-day timeline for many of these extraordinary actions. The back end of that, Tam, is Congress. You know, Congress is supposed to have a lot of authority over what happens in the district. And so far, Republicans who control what happens in the House and Senate have been essentially writing the president a blank check. They've been applauding these extraordinary actions.

And Tom, what is the National Guard in Washington, D.C. to do? Like, what are their responsibilities? Well, at this point, they're doing presence patrols. As Brian mentioned, they're walking along the mall, the monuments. I saw a few in front of one of the museums. And in some cases, they are assisting police. and detaining one or two people while the police officers make the arrest. But at this point, well, hundreds more are coming in from West Virginia, from Ohio, from South Carolina. So you're looking at probably 2,000 or so National Guard troops here. Here's the thing.

Generally, when the Guard is called into a state or a city, they're there for a particular incident. When you're talking about an amorphous issue like crime, it's uncertain whether they'll be effect of just walking around the mall or even going into the neighborhoods, just doing patrols and then they go by. How do you prevent a carjacking unless you're on top of it? How do you prevent a drug deal unless you see it? So a lot of this is frankly performative. The National Guard troops are there because President Trump says crime needs to be addressed. But my understanding is that the National Guard isn't supposed to be involved in civilian law enforcement. So is that line being crossed

here, or are they being careful? Well, it's kind of unclear when the Guard operates under state duty, because essentially a National Guard is the Governor's Army, but in this case, it's a federal city, it's Washington, D.C. There is no governor. So in this instance, the Governor here is the Army Secretary, Dan Driscoll. He's the one that's organizing this thing. So in cases where it's a state issue, where the governor calls up the Guard for a state issue. They can get involved in law enforcement. So again, in this instance, it is unclear,

but again, from what all we've been hearing is the guard will assist the police, maybe detain people here and there while the police make the arrest. But again, with hundreds more coming in, presumably they'll be heading into the neighborhoods. What will they be doing? You could see an instance where they could sort of cordon off an area while police make raids while they make arrest, but we just don't know at this point. Right. Well, we're going to take a quick break and we will have more in a moment. And we're back. And Tom, this is not the only place where the National Guard has been brought in by President Trump, including in another case where there also wasn't an invitation. So can you talk a little bit about the uniqueness of how the

military and National Guard are being employed in this second Trump term? Well, no, there's no question that he's calling up more troops than any president in memory. A lot of troops, of course, heading to the Mexican border, both guard and active duty. He sent California Guard troops against the wishes of the California governor to L.A. and also active duty troops there to protect federal buildings. The Guard troops were doing cordons to help ICE on some of their raids around L.A. And Trump has threatened to use Guard troops also in Democratic, let's say, cities, Chicago, and also New York City. I got a hold of a memo back in May where the Department

of Homeland Security wanted to use 20,000 guard to work in ICE detention facilities, but also interestingly to go on, quote, night raids around the country and also rural interdiction, clearly going into the farms and some of the other areas where you have large numbers of undocumented migrants. So this is really just the beginning. And I will add, I got some numbers from the White House today about the arrests that have been made. And it's interesting, there have been 380 total arrests since this started back on August 7th, 59 firearm sees. But to me, what stands out is that more than 160 immigrants have been arrested, illegal aliens using the White House term. And so that means that a very large share of the

arrests have actually been immigration enforcement. I think one of the things, people in D.C. are talking about, Tam, is that the president made it very clear last Monday when he initiated this with his executive order that he wants to see something like what's happening now in Washington, D.C., happen in other cities that are led by Democrats around the country. And people here are taking them seriously. A lot of people I've been talking to on the street, protesters say they think what we're seeing here with the National Guard is a preview of a much wider use of the military in places that Donald Trump perceives or describes as as being crime-ridden and dangerous places.

And there's no question you're going to see more legal challenges. So let's say you try to send the West Virginia National Guard to Illinois to go into Chicago. The governor could say, I don't want these troops here. They're not my troops. Now, Trump could federalize the Illinois Guard and send those troops into Chicago. But there are going to be a lot of legal challenges, Tam, in the coming weeks on this whole issue. As you say, then D.C. may just be the beginning here, though obviously the law is a little different elsewhere. Correct. But there's no question. President Trump has already said he plans on sending guard troops to Chicago to New York City.

I wouldn't be surprised if he see it in the Pacific Northwest in Seattle and maybe Portland. And remember, during his first term, he talked about sending active duty troops to America's streets, then Defense Secretary. Secretary Mark Esper said, no, they have no role in American streets, active duty troops. The police should be able to handle that. If they can't, you call in the National Guard. Tom, do you have a sense of what people who are in military command now think of what's happening? Well, they're saluting and carrying out orders, but I did talk with two retired National Guard generals. Even before the troops went out in the street, one told me it was a PR stunt. Again, he called it performative. He didn't see what good this would do. And also the other general said he's worried that the guard troops, as they come in greater numbers, could be a target of protesters.

We saw one of the federal agents, some guy threw a sandwich at him. It could get even worse. So instead of calming the situation, reducing crime, it could go the other way. And they're really, really concerned about that. And one of the generals, one of the two I spoke was said, this only works if local law enforcement invites the garden and works with them. We're not seeing that in this situation. Brian, with this increasing federal presence in Washington, D.C., where many residents have decidedly mixed feelings about that presence, is there a risk that this could escalate? That's a concern, Tam, that I've been hearing here among civic leaders, leaders in the black community.

They're also working very hard on the streets right now to avoid a flashpoint, some kind of conflict between residents of D.C. and these troops, these troops who are not trained for this kind of civilian law enforcement, I think there is real fear that what is mostly performative right now, that something could trigger an escalation of this and it could spiral out of control. We're in the middle of a hot summer. There are more and more soldiers on the streets. We also have the school year about to get underway, the public school year, and that could mean more kids, more children out on streets.

People are really worried that there's a chemistry here that could be really volatile. All right. Well, we are going to leave it there for now. Brian, man, thank you so much for joining us again. Thanks, Tam. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I'm Tom Bowman. I cover the Pentagon. And thank you for listening to the NPR Politics Podcast.