The NPR Politics Podcast - Why New Hampshire Holds The First Primary And Why That Matters

Episode Date: January 1, 2020

In this special episode of The NPR Politics Podcast we sat down with New Hampshire Public Radio's political reporter Lauren Chooljian to talk about why New Hampshire's primary comes first in the presidential election and why that matters.Chooljian and her team explored the history and impact of the primary in NHPR's Stranglehold, and we deep dive on the key things she learned while digging into the history.This episode: White House correspondent Tamara Keith and senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro.Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And today we are continuing our up-close look at the two states that lead the nation's presidential primary caucus-y process. The first in the nation, Iowa and New Hampshire. Some might say first in the nation. Some might say lead. Others might say stranglehold. Who might say that? Maybe you might say that.

Yeah. So Lauren Chooljian of New Hampshire Public Radio, you host a podcast called Stranglehold. That's right. I do. And I'm so glad to be here with you guys. We are glad to have you with us. And let's just start with the name of that podcast. Happy to. Why did you pick Stranglehold? So a couple reasons. Well, we were kind of trying to think when we wanted to do a podcast,

we wanted to do something different. Of course, great podcasts like yours and others already kind of take people to the trail and talk about what's going on there. And we wanted to figure out what we could offer that was unique that would be helpful to people to kind of give them a sense of why New Hampshire has such a big role in picking presidents. And one of the big parts of that story that doesn't often get told is that New Hampshire has had, like Iowa, such a tight grip on this thing. And despite many attempts to get us to give it up we haven't and we've often fought back and that's the reason why we've been able to keep it so when we were kind of kicking around ideas for like i don't know like tight grip or fight like those are all kind of

lame and so um my high school my father is a high school wrestling coach believe it or not so we dialed him up and i was like dad Dad, you know, we're trying to think of something like, you know, like a grip or like a stranglehold, but like, I don't know. And he was like, stranglehold? That's a great song. And then that we just kind of were like, well, that's now our mood board. And we kind of went from there. I thought it was because murder podcasts are so popular. Okay, so your podcast is terrific. And I've really enjoyed listening to it. And there is like this central character in your podcast. He comes he is a recurring character. He better be. New Hampshire's longtime secretary of state, you and podcast host Jack Rodolico introduce us all to him. Let's listen to a clip of your podcast with co-host Jack Rodolico as you introduce us to the one, the only, the Bill Gardner. I missed it. Can we do that again?

So we have your check. Okay. It's a cashier's check. I don't think they would have taken mine. They wanted a cashier's check. So this is from a bank that's not actually as rich as we are, right? Every four years, it's voters in New Hampshire who cast the first ballots in a presidential campaign cycle. And the results of that election have altered history. No joke. If you win here, you could be on a fast track to the White House. Which is why Trump is making a big deal about handing over a check for a thousand bucks to the state of New Hampshire.

Because it's this check that gets his name on the first in the nation primary ballot. I like it. Where do you want me to sign, Bill? Bill is Secretary of State Bill Gardner. It's his job to take these thousand dollar checks from wannabe presidents, making sure they sign the correct forms, often in front of a sea of cameras. That means Bill Gardner has stood shoulder to shoulder with hundreds of powerful people, senators, governors, congressmen, even a reality TV star. They all come to Gardner's office. This is his show, and he's been doing it for decades. And these candidates, they must know that they're more powerful than Bill Gardner's office. This is his show, and he's been doing it for decades. And these candidates, they must know that they're more powerful than Bill Gardner.

But that's not how they act when they walk in here. Many are straight up reverential to Gardner. For example, when Barack Obama walked in here, he bowed to Bill Gardner. It was a joke, but everybody got it. So Bill Gardner, Secretary of State, he is the reason that New Hampshire keeps its hold. But how does he do it? Well, so part of the mythology is that he is the only reason. He is known as the guardian of the First Nation primary. Now, is that true? Mostly, yes. Bill Gardner has played a huge role in keeping us first for decades and decades. And he's been in office for more than 40 years. He started his career in the early 1970s. And that's also around the time

when the New Hampshire primary really kind of formed this mythology that we know of it to be today, where this is a place where retail politics helps you win. This is a place where you can skyrocket out of here as long as you shake enough hands to help you get there. And what Bill Gardner has been able to do is kind of play this game of chess where he has watched how all these other states have tried to move their dates. And he has worked with the legislature to make sure that it is in New Hampshire state law that we don't just stay first, but we stay first by a week. And then that gives him the legal authority to say, well, you know, Delaware says it wants to come up and go sooner, but they can't because our state law, sorry, that's just what it is. And at the core of this, you know, he's become kind of this, you know,

this image, this big character. And when Domenico was like, you better be talking about Bill Gardner, he's exactly right, because Bill Gardner has been the face of this thing for so many years. But he's also become over the last couple of years, a kind of controversial character around here. And so we dug into like the full view of Bill Gardner. And that was because we had to. He's a huge part of it. So people bow down to someone like this because they win victories. You know, they go into battle and they win. And, you know, Howard Dean, when he was Democratic National Committee chairman, he tried to reshuffle the order. He tried to knock New Hampshire down and Gardner didn't let it happen.

Similarly, in 2016, 2015, when Reince Priebus was chairman of the Republican National Committee. He floated a similar idea. Gardner swatted that down, saying that state law would trump anything else. He is 71 years old. He's the longest serving secretary of state in the nation. And he was installed just before the first in the nation law passed. And he has just stuck to this line. Can I just say that I love how you keep saying like the first in the nation to cast ballots like it's this like well we know there's this caucus

but like we have to have the superiority thing so we say first in the nation. They're not really first. There is this this culture of we are first and this is media this is politicians this is you know this is like it's it's in the water around here in the political class that like this is our thing. It keeps us relevant. We believe we separate from, you know, the journalists around here. We believe that we're giving everyone a gift. We're doing the country a service because we are providing something that no one else except for Iowa can provide, which is retail politics, because we're small enough. We have voters who care enough to go to these events at four o'clock on a Tuesday and they ask tough questions. I mean, that is like the core of the New Hampshire primary. And yes, we're not really first.

So I want to talk to you about 1976 and Jimmy Carter. Yesterday on the podcast, we were talking to Iowa Public Radio's Clay Masters, and Iowa has this mythology around Jimmy Carter in a way. It's like him coming out of Iowa is part of the mythology of why the Iowa caucuses matter. And it seems like he is also important to New Hampshire. You have an episode of your podcast where you talk to one of the key figures who convinced Jimmy Carter to run, Gerald Rafshun. He, along with a guy named Hamilton Jordan, had a plan to get Carter elected. And New Hampshire was a key part of that plan. But Rafshun is keeping the love for Carter and the smart-ass humor very much alive. For example, a thunderstorm rolled in while we were on the phone.

I'm so magnetic, I start thunderstorms. You know, it's just, let there be light! Oh my God! Don't be throwing Jimmy's name around in vain. So it was 1972 when the idea first struck these guys that Carter should run for president. Carter had been governor for over a year at that point, and he, Raphshun, and Jordan went to the Democratic National Convention in Miami. They looked around this big convention center and they saw a lot of wannabe presidents, Birch Bayh, George Wallace, guys who were already angling to run four years from then. Jordan turned to Rafshun and said,

man, if these guys can run for president, Jimmy could do that. Jordan and Rafshun decided, all right, when we get back to Georgia, we're going to tell Jimmy he should run for president. So they get home, and Jordan was apparently pretty nervous.

They went over to the governor's mansion, and they sit in front of Carter. And we said, we want to talk to you about your future. He said, yes. And we said, well, you can't run for re-election. He said, I know that. It was term limited. It could be one term at that time. And Hamilton said, we think you should run it. And he went, couldn't get it out. President. And Jimmy looked at him and says, oh, really? Oh, really? Yeah. And that is actually a great moment, too, because that was when Jerry Rapshaw also told me that it was obvious to them that this is something that had been on Carter's mind. And I want to say you brought up Iowa, which is very correct, which is that, you know, Jimmy Carter doesn't like the most for the Iowa caucus.

That is totally real. And they were in the back of my mind as I wrote this episode, for sure. But Jimmy Carter's 1976 campaign did some different stuff for us that, you know, maybe, you know, of course, it didn't start the New Hampshire primary because it had been going on long before that. But it built this mythology that has been forever and since baked into what people believe the New Hampshire primary can do for a candidate. You know, Jimmy Carter, he, yes, came in second ish kind of one in Iowa, and that definitely helped the momentum. But the idea that you could come from, you know, relative obscurity, he had, of course, been the governor of Georgia, but wasn't really well known nationally. And to come into a place like New Hampshire early with no money and spend tons of time, you know, sending your sons, your mother, your extended family and friends out to canvas for you because you couldn't afford to hire a

bunch of staff, to sleep over at people's houses because you couldn't afford hotels. I mean, these are the things that people remember as ways you really are hustling for the New Hampshire voters. You know, what New Hampshire really is, is the reset state. You know, the whole thing about these two early states is they don't get a lot of delegates. It's not about delegates. This is about media narrative and momentum. So when someone goes into Iowa and they win Iowa and then they go to New Hampshire, sometimes that's a match that lights their fire. And sometimes it's a roadblock. I'm thinking, for example, of President Trump. For example, Ted Cruz won Iowa. President Trump came back and was able to win in New Hampshire. And that set him on a path. Think about somebody like Barack Obama. He wins Iowa. The media narrative is,

wow, here goes this guy. He's going to take off and he could be the nominee. He's up by eight points. Then what happened? Surprise. Hillary Clinton won. It paused that race. It made that primary go on for much longer than people thought it would have. Forever. All right. We are going to take a quick break. And when we get back, we will talk about the consequences of having New Hampshire be the nation's first primary. The possibilities are endless. Join companies like Salesforce, Nike, and Dell that trust UStudio to manage, host, and distribute their secure, private podcasts. Learn more about UStudio at theletterustudio.com. We're wrapping up 2019 on Pop Culture Happy Hour by looking at everything we saw and heard this year and choosing just 15 favorite things. Could be a song, a moment, a movie,

anything we think is the best of the best of the year. Here are picks on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. And we're back. And each state has its own demographics, its own priorities. I know that in 2015 and 2016, covering the campaign in New Hampshire, the issue of opioid abuse was very present on the campaign trail. And in some ways, it caused politicians to elevate this issue that's very important in New Hampshire to more national prominence because they were all there and they were all hearing about it. But there are also concerns with, you know, as we've talked about in at other times and having a state that is as white as New Hampshire sort of setting the table for the rest of the Democratic electorate. I mean, that's right. New Hampshire is 94 percent white. So that's one reason why, especially with a growing, diverse Democratic Party, a lot of people look at it and say, why are these two states, Iowa and New Hampshire, which are overwhelmingly white, both first? One of the things about New

Hampshire, though, that some people in the Democratic establishment like is the fact that it is a semi-open primary. And what that means is that independents can choose whichever primary they want to vote in, which means that it generally helps a moderate candidate more. And New Hampshire is a swing state. So if you're looking at whether it's a bellwether or this person is a good nominee, New Hampshire is usually the kind of place where establishment party politicians like to say that's the kind of person who could win in a general election. Which is funny because in 2016... I was just going to say that's the kind of person who could win in a general election. Which is funny because in 2016. I was just going to say that.

It was Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders. But, you know. But we're not the establishment candidate. And sometimes there's an asterisk with that because Bernie Sanders was from Vermont, which is next door. Right. Howard Dean about a time when he was the Democratic National Committee chairman and he was trying to shake up the primary calendar. Iowa and New Hampshire are two of the least diverse states in the country and our party is very diverse. The Republicans aren't, but we are. And if we're going to represent diverse people, diverse people would have an early vote in who the

nominee is going to be. So that is a problem. So they start holding meetings, discussing new ways to organize the calendar. Maybe we should rotate, give other states a chance, or maybe we should add more states to the early lineup. Because the thing is, the facts are the facts. New Hampshire has long been one of the whitest states in the nation. The population here is older, wealthier, more educated, and less religious than most of the country. So it was a complicated discussion between national Democratic power brokers. They gathered in hotel ballrooms with ugly carpeting. They sat at long tables arranged in the shape of a U, and they went at it for months. There were a lot of competing interests, and New Hampshire and Iowa, they took a lot of heat.

And what ends up happening is New Hampshire really digs in. And Democrats in New Hampshire will say then and now that they are committed to diversity, full stop. But the argument that they always present as the counterargument is, listen, you guys have to consider the unintended consequence of shaking this all up. I mean, if you add more early states, they argued that could front load the calendar. And then that means a national primary and that weakens retail politics. And then, you know, people like Gene Shaheen, Terry Shoemaker, big people in the Democratic Party around here start arguing, well, look how well it went for Bill Clinton. Look how well it went for Jimmy Carter. Don't we want to see candidates like that? And so that argument kind of devolved into a

compromise. You know, before in 2008, this used to be like political insiders hashing this out. Now we're hearing from candidates who think that this is potentially not fair. And so I'm curious to see where this argument takes us in the next election and if the DNC takes this up again and tries to make some changes in an actual, you know, that really would kick Iowa and New Hampshire out. All right, we are going to leave it there. But everyone should go listen to the Stranglehold podcast. And Lauren Chulgin, thank you for telling us all about it. Thank you for having me. I'm Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior political editor and correspondent. And thank you for listening

to the NPR Politics Podcast.