The NPR Politics Podcast - Will 2024 Republicans Support A National Ban On Abortion?

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

It has been a year since the Supreme Court sent the power to legislate abortion access back to the states — upsetting a majority of the American public and creating a political minefield for GOP presidential hopefuls. Meanwhile, the Biden administration is talking about it as often as it can.This episode: White House correspondent Asma Khalid, White House correspondent Tamara Keith, and national political correspondent Sarah McCammon.The podcast is produced by Elena Moore and Casey Morell. Our editor is Eric McDaniel. Our executive producer is Muthoni Muturi. Unlock access to this and other bonus content by supporting The NPR Politics Podcast+. Sign up via Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org. Connect:Email the show at [e-mail] the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey, folks, this is Asma. And before we kick off today's show, we just wanted to ask for a timestamp. Those are those little blurbs you hear at the beginning of the podcast. Tell us what you're doing this summer. Send it to us at nprpolitics at npr.org. And you might end up on a podcast soon. Hi, this is Cindy from Warren, Pennsylvania. Today, I'm walking the last 27 kilometers of my 790-kilometer walk from Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port, France, to Santiago de Compostela, Spain. This podcast was recorded at 12.29 p.m. on Monday, June 26th of 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it, but I'll still have blisters. Buen Camino and enjoy the show.

That is a lot of walking. A lot of walking. Well, hey there, it's the NPR Politics Podcast. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. And I'm Sarah McCammon, national political correspondent. And today on the show, we're going to dive into the dueling messages from Republicans and Democrats one year after the Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. It has been a year of chaos, confusion, and a lot of political consequences. And Sarah, let's start with you. Can you just describe what the landscape looks like now in the country around abortion and

bans on abortion? Well, you know, even before the Dobbs, Feedbacks, and Women's Health Organization decision a what the landscape looks like now in the country around abortion and bans on abortion. Well, you know, even before the Dobbs, Feejax, and Women's Health Organization decision a year ago, Asma, abortion access was really limited in much of the country. I mean, there were states that only had one clinic, and many people had to travel quite far to get to an abortion clinic. That said, the sort of patchwork that we talk about, the difference between red and blue states when it comes to abortion access, that has just dramatically intensified in the last year. There are now about a dozen, a little more than a dozen states that have virtually no legal abortion with some very narrow exceptions usually. About a dozen other states have passed protections for

abortion providers and patients who travel there. And then you have states kind of in the middle, some of which have restricted abortion at, say, 12 or 15 weeks. But the overall reality is that people in some states have no access unless they travel out of state. And even in places where abortion is legal, there's a lot more pressure on sort of the infrastructure and the providers that exist. You know, one thing we've heard from this White House over the course of the last year is how much abortion access has become a health care crisis. They really frame this around freedom and health care coverage, health care access. Tammy, you were covering both the president and the vice president who made a number of

remarks just Friday into Saturday around this Dobbs anniversary. What stood out to you? The first lady is the one who really made this health care argument, talking about women who she met with who wanted to keep their pregnancies, but there was a health crisis. And then they went to a provider and they were told they weren't sick enough to actually be able to get the procedure they needed. They tell their stories again and again, not for themselves, but for all of the women who can't. If they can raise their voices, how can we do any less? And that is more and more what we're hearing

coming from the White House is framing this around health care, as you say. But also there is a political argument that they're making, that this is, I mean, they're almost outright saying at this rally that this is good politics for them, that what the Supreme Court did was bad for Republicans and bad for women, and that women need to stand up and make their voices heard. I heard the vice president in Charlotte, North Carolina, over the weekend, where she said rather explicitly, elections matter, organizing matters. And if you want to codify Roe and restore the protections that were in Roe versus Wade,

ultimately, this is up to Congress. And the only way this can happen is by electing more Democratic members of Congress. But we know this fight will not truly be won until we secure this right for every American, which means ultimately, the United States Congress must put back in place what the Supreme Court took away. You know, and Democrats, of course, are pointing to some success they had in the midterm elections. Anytime abortion was on the ballot put directly to voters, voters, you know, generally voted to support abortion rights. So they're feeling, I think, empowered and galvanized by the issue. I think the question is, sort of, you know, Republicans would like to try to get back on offense on this issue. And so that's the sort

of struggle we're seeing politically right now, especially as the primary shapes up. And sir, can I ask you a follow up there, though? You were at the Faith and Freedom Coalition conference over the weekend. A number of Republican 2024 presidential candidates were speaking, including the former President Donald Trump. And it seems like he was taking a bit of a victory lap. But I got it done and nobody thought it was even a possibility. They've been fighting. Good people, strong people, smart people have been fighting for 50 years and it never even came close to getting done. Yeah, he absolutely was taking a victory lap. I mean, he and of course his vice presidential running mate at the time, Mike Pence, both ran on this

issue. They promised religious conservatives that they would put Supreme Court justices on the court who would overturn Roe v. Wade. And that has happened. And so, you know, Trump was speaking on the one year anniversary of the Dobbs decision to his base and reminding them that he was the one who did that. All right, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, we'll talk more about the rest of the Republican presidential field. And we're back. And Sarah, to return to the Faith and Freedom Coalition conference that you were watching over the weekend, Donald Trump's former vice president, Mike Pence, was also there. And he called for a national ban on abortion.

We must not rest and must not relent until we restore the sanctity of life to the center of American law in every state in this country. What do you make of that? And are we hearing that from other Republicans? You know, this is a really interesting, I guess, question that's sort of shaping up for Republicans who are hoping to take down Trump, who, of course, has been at the top of the polls. You know, Mike Pence has a long history of opposing abortion rights, and that's really a big thing that he's running on. At the Faith and Freedom Coalition, he explicitly called on everybody who's running for the GOP presidential nomination to come out in support of a 15-week federal ban. This is something that South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham has proposed. proposed, it's got the backing of some major national groups like SBA, Pro-Life America, who's working with Kellyanne Conway, of course, the former Trump advisor and pollster. And this seems to be kind of the number that a lot of anti-abortion activists are coalescing around.

Of course, Republicans don't have the votes in Congress now to make that happen. But what I'm hearing is a real desire for the presidential candidates to push, you know, toward this as the next goal, the next rallying cry. Here's what Kellyanne Conway said about it last week. So if you are a presidential candidate on the Republican side, in fact, if you are running for the Senate, or if you're running for Congress, and you say, gee, the Dobbs decision now has turned this back to the states. Therefore, I wash my hands clean. I don't have to say anything. That is just false. And there are quite a few candidates who are in fact saying that, that it should be left to the

states or that a consensus will be found in the states, which is kind of a funny idea. That is what Chris Christie, who's another candidate, has said, because there's no consensus being found in the states right now. Red states and blue states are moving in completely different directions. Completely different directions. Former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, who is also running for president, said something similar. She said that she would work toward consensus, but said she doesn't think a national ban is realistic. That's not going to be enough for some on the right. At the same time, you know, for Trump, I'm not sure it really matters where he lands on this exactly. He said at the Faith and Freedom Coalition, essentially, look,

I'm the guy that overturned Roe v. Wade. And I think from voters I was talking to there, that seems to be enough. He suggested he will support federal legislation, but he's not getting too specific. It sounds like from what you're describing that Republicans are having difficulty in dialing in a clear message that they all stand behind. And I find that very interesting because if you look at polling, in fact, you can look at our own and most recent NPR PBS NewsHour Mayor's poll, it showed that a majority of Americans do not support the overturning of Roe versus Wade, did not support the Dobbs decision. And yet you have all these Republican candidates, it feels like trying to articulate where exactly

they stand, but also kind of slightly aware that maybe the American public isn't totally in sync with where the GOP base is. But what they say when you point that out, what anti-abortion activists point to, and there's some, this is true to some extent, is that while most Americans opposed overturning Roe v. Wade, a majority also oppose abortion after the first trimester and certainly in the third. And so that's where Republicans are hoping that they can sort of find an opportunity in this post Roe post Dobbs environment to zero in on exactly where the line is that, you know, they can sell to at least a majority of Americans or enough Americans to elect their candidate. Sarah, will Republican-based voters, though, support this idea? Because I am thinking of states such as Florida, which is enacting a six-week bang. And you have the governor of Florida, Ron DeSantis, who's also running for president.

So I guess I'm left confused as to wondering why Republican-based voters would support this if they have called for stricter measures in some of their own states. Many Republicans, many conservatives would like to see something more than 15 weeks, a ban before 15 weeks. That said, you know, what people like Marjorie Dannenfelser with SBA Pro-Life America and others have said is that, I mean, they're being pragmatic. This is what they think they can sell to the American public. This is what they think that candidates can run on. They want candidates to, as they say, get off the defensive on the abortion issue, you know, after the midterms and be on offense. And they want Republican primary candidates and the ultimate nominee to push

the Democratic nominee in the other direction and say, what kind of restrictions do you support? Where do you draw the line? And so, you know, we're really just, I think, in real time seeing this debate be reshuffled by the aftermath of Dobbs. I think that what happened with Dobbs is when Roe versus Wade was in place, Republican voters were extremely motivated by getting rid of Roe versus Wade. And Republican politicians could spend their time sort of poking at Democrats saying, what limits would you support? Here's a bill taking up legislation, trying to sort of push Democrats on what limits they would accept. Now, with Roe gone, now Republicans are being asked, what exceptions would you accept? How big a ban should there be? How early in a pregnancy should a ban be in place? And it is sort of pushing them to publicly in polls that they support. So Republicans are,

as Sarah says, really trying to push in a direction where they can again be asking Democrats, well, what limits would you support instead of having to answer questions about a six-week ban or a 15-week ban or, well, what about the health of the mother? And exceptions like that. I mean, to that point, Tam, you know this as well as I do. The countless number of times this White House has been asked about any restrictions it supports, and they don't have to articulate. They don't feel that this is an answer that they need to give to voters at this point in time, because that's not where the conversation is. Well, they say they support Roe versus Wade. Full stop. All right. That is a wrap for today.

We're going to leave it there. I'm Asma Khalid. I cover the White House. I'm Tamara Keith. I also cover the White House. And I'm Sarah McCammon, national political correspondent. And thank you all, as always, for listening to the NPR Apologetics Podcast.