The Opinions - A Jewish Comedian Walks Into a Theater in Minnesota

Episode Date: March 29, 2025

In his HBO special, “Just for Us,” the comedian Alex Edelman explores his Jewish identity and whiteness in an unusual way: attending a neo-Nazi meeting in Queens. Before the 2024 presidential election, he traveled to Minnesota to watch a stranger perform his comedy special in a theater performance. In this episode, Edelman joins the Opinion editor Susannah Meadows to reflect on that experience, what “Just for Us” means after Donald Trump’s return to office and why hard conversations — even with extremists — matter now more than ever.Thoughts? Email us at [e-mail] episode of “The Opinions” was produced by Kristina Samulewski. It was edited by Alison Bruzek, Kaari Pitkin and Annie-Rose Strasser. The rest of the show's production team includes Derek Arthur, Vishakha Darbha and Jillian Weinberger. Mixing by Carole Sabouraud. Original music by Sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Isaac Jones and Carole Sabouraud. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Kristina Samulewski. The director of Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is The Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times Opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it. I'm Susanna Meadows, and I'm an editor for Times Opinion. So last year I got this unusual call from the comedian and actor Alex Edelman. I've actually known Alex since he was in college. You might know Alex from his solo show Just For Us, which he performed on Broadway. And then it went to... HBO as a special. He also won an Emmy and a Tony for it. Just for us, for those of you who don't know,

is a very personal story about Alex's life, about growing up in an observant Jewish family in Boston. I grew up in Boston. I grew up in this really racist part of Boston, called Boston. And he tells the story of going to a meeting of white nationalists in Queens. And the tweet says, if you live in NYC and you have questions about your whiteness, come to 441-27th Avenue, and I thought to myself, I live in NYC. And as an Ashkenazi Jew, I have some questions about my whiteness. And in the course of going to this meeting, someone outs him as a Jew.

So it's very much a story of his experience and his thoughts about Judaism. and how we should be talking to each other. When Alex performed his show, it was before the presidential election last year. And so it was a different time. But Alex told me that he had just heard that there was a theater in Minnesota that was going to be putting on his show just for us.

They were going to be using his stand-up script, and the actor was going to be essentially impersonating him. And immediately, he said he had to go see it, and he had to go see it in disguise. I mean, I wanted to talk to Alex about the experience. On the surface, of course, there's just the kind of gag of it all. And I was dying to hear what that experience was like for him. Alex.

Hi, Susanna. I remember where I was when you called me and you said, this show is happening. Someone's putting on my show. It's like when Kennedy was shot, but I wasn't alive then. But you said, I think I'm going to go. Tell me why you decided to go and what it was like. Well, there are a bunch of reasons.

First of all, it's funny. Right. Like, more than anything else, it is funny and weird to think, like, oh, there is a person who is a lovely artistic director who I met briefly and a director. And they decided they're like, we're going to stage a show. Were you nervous? Yes. Uh-huh. I was really nervous.

don't want, like, I didn't know how it was going to feel. Right. What was the experience like sitting in the audience watching your show performed by somebody else? I mean, it was, first of all, it's literally an out-of-body experience, right? Like, I'm literally watching somebody come on stage and say, My name is Alex Edelman. I'm a comedian, and I'm going to tell you a story about something that happened.

And just be like, ah! This is a dream. Like, it's literally, it's a solipsism. seven layer cake. I'm watching a guy pretend to be me talking about his childhood sometimes, which is really my childhood. And he's doing an impression of me as a child. So it's just like, it's like inception of like self-loathing and narcissisms. Can I just ask one question about that? You had to watch the person or persona that you created and I'm curious how it felt to be confronted with that person you made and did you like him?

Um, yes. Oh, that's nice. But I kind of like that there are things about it that feel really, really true and vulnerable to me. But there are also some things that I sort of hide the ball on. I think it's like a sketchy abstract picture of myself as opposed to like a photo. Uh-huh. And watching somebody else inhabit that made it seem that way too. You obviously feel a lot of ownership over it.

And the show is out of your control. How did you deal with that? You know, in principle, completely fine. You know, why take this so seriously? Who gives it shit? Like, sorry, can I curse at the New York Times? Like, who cares? Yeah.

Because ultimately, I'm not going to be doing it, and it exists on HBO, and I'm very proud of the HBO version. But ultimately, I had such a wonderful time performing it. And just getting advice from people. So I thought if someone else can have that experience, how tender, like, how wonderful. And then you go and see it and it feels down it. And then you're like, oh, okay.

Well, that's not the decision I would have made. Right. You know, that's not that's not what I would have done. But ultimately, even after seeing it, I did feel like, oh, yeah, I like that someone else can do it. I like that people can go see it and experience it live. Also, the show is not about anti-Semitism. The show is about assimilation. The show is about someone who feels a certain way

and is at odds with the world that they exist in. And so I'd be really interested in seeing a non-Jewish, non-white, non-male performer do a version of that. And is that because I'm curious why? Because Norman Lear, who I completely, worshipped, like to say that I'm just another version of you. And Norman created all these shows, like, All in the Family, but he also did, like, Sanford and Sons and Maud and Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.

And a bunch of shows where it wasn't just about Norman Lee, or these shows were they were fully inhabited with this humanity. And one of my professors at college, Nathan Englander, likes to say that when people are told, write what you know, sometimes they go, oh, if I'm a farmer, I should write about being a farmer. If I'm from a poor background, I should write about being from that specific poor background. But what he means is if you know shame, right, shame. If you know ambition, right ambition.

If you know what it feels like to be informed by a world that you come from, but also a longing to completely fit in with the greater world at large, write about that. And so I'm curious to see someone who's coming at that specific angle of wanting to belong, but coming from a place where that may not be the easiest thing. I'm wondering if the story still works for them, if the filter of it is through something other than their Judaism. So you mentioned in another interview that the show is the best, truest expression of yourself. So what did you find out watching yourself? I'm so annoying.

I'm so annoying and so Jewish. Can someone tone down the Jewish for this time period that we live in? Gosh. I mean, in 2025, to be this Jewish seems almost irresponsible. I mean, a little bit is, but no, no, I think watching it, I do think certain things come through. The things that I love come through. The love of my family and my identity.

and weirdly there's something like patriotic about it, which is the idea, not to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen the show, the idea that not that these people can be reached the white nationalists in the room, but the idea that you'd want to. Right. Is very, I think, like weirdly patriotic. Right. And the idea, also the neediness of someone who wants to connect with everyone.

That's you. Yeah, that's me. Thank you, Susanna. You're welcome. But seeing that. But that idea of being not necessarily. I'm not saying the neediness necessarily. It's just the interest in hearing other people.

Sure. Right? Isn't that the core of the show? Oh, a thousand percent. And also, I do think, not to be earnest here, I do think that wanting that right now feels more, feels interesting in a different way, like the aspects of the show that appeal to people.

Do you think that that has changed? Are you saying post-Trump? Yeah. talk about the show before Trump and then how the show is received after Trump. Well, while I was in Minnesota, I did some door-to-door work for this candidate in Minnesota, who's running in like a pretty competitive seat that I really like. And the mood was I sort of knew which way the election was going to shake out. And so I guess I was sort of curious how the show would play that close to the election,

and how a sort of like love letter to civility or something. Right. The show is ultimately, there's a little bit of wish fulfillment in the show, which is that we can all speak civilly to each other and offer each other both empathy and accountability, even in the most extreme environment, right? Right.

Like even in a room full of white nationalist with some neo-Nazi views. Right. So when you were performing it on Broadway in 2023, I feel like you were kind of against the tide when you were first doing it. I feel like there was a moment for that opinion, and I wonder how that opinion holds up now in terms of, like, loving civility and the rule of discourse

and favoring conversation that is productive over conversation where you are the party that is right. Uh-huh. I wonder if that still holds the same currency that it did when I was doing it on Broadway or during a Biden administration. Is it harder to make the argument that you do with your show that we really need to be talking to each other? No.

Or is it more relevant? I don't know that it's more relevant. The truth is, I think in principle, people quite like the idea that they can have productive civil conversations of people who have fundamental differences from them. But as soon as you introduce, like, Democrat and Republican, those things start to break down, right? People start to say, well, yes,

but in this case, they're not civil, or in this case, they wouldn't actually listen to me, or in this case there isn't actually civility. I did the show on Broadway in August of 2023, but then its tour was post-October 7th, while there was this major conflict in Gaza and the atmosphere around discourse and Jewish identity changed drastically. Right. And so that was different. Tell me how it changed and how you felt. that as you were performing it.

It became more charged. Yeah. And I always said something at the beginning of the show, which isn't in the play and isn't in the special, because the special was filmed beforehand. But I said, you know, when I was in high school, I went to see John Uptake, a famous novelist, give a talk.

And John Obedeke said, if you are lucky, at some point in your life, the work that you create might find itself in conversation with the times in which you live. And then I would pause, and go, well, call me Mr. Lucky. I believe that a show should be conversing with the moment it's in and not beholden to it. And I think that holds true with the time that we're in now.

Right. I truly believe that I think this is a bipartisan thing to say, ignoring a conversation that you could be having by going, no, I'm sorry, it's not up for conversation. It doesn't make those things go away. And so I think being clear-eyed about what other people feel and what they're saying and what they believe is really crucial. I'm not saying that everyone has the energy to do that or the time. Some of people need to make sure that ShakeShack is open, right?

Like you can't, not everyone can be online fighting all the time in pursuit of a more, you know, like a more bipartisan truth. Right. But like, yeah, I do think it's important to have those conversations. Alex, thanks so much for being on the show to talk about a show that performed your show. Thank you on all three of those friends. If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This show is produced by Derek Arthur, Sophia Alvarez Boyd, Bishaka, Fiby Lett, Christina Samuelski, and Jillian Weinberger. It's edited by Kari Pitkin, Alison Bruzek, and Annie Rose Strasser. Engineering, mixing, and original music

by Isaac Jones, Sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Carol Saburo, and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Amin Sahota. The fact check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, and Michelle Harris. Audience Strategy by Shannon Busta, Christina Samuelski, and Adrian Rivera. The executive producer of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Dresser.