The Opinions - Musk Said No One Has Died Since Aid Was Cut. That Isn’t True.

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

What does it look like when some of the world’s richest men withdraw assistance for the world’s poorest women and children? After Elon Musk claimed no one had died from cuts to American foreign aid spending, the Opinion writer Nicholas Kristof traveled to South Sudan to see the impact for himself. In this episode, he shares how millions of people now face death and starvation and why Americans — including those who believe in “America First” — should care.Read Kristof’s interactive essay with photos and charts at nytimes.com/opinion.Thoughts? Email us at [e-mail] episode of “The Opinions” was produced by Derek Arthur. It was edited by Alison Bruzek and Annie-Rose Strasser. Mixing by Carole Sabouraud. Original music by Pat McCusker and Carole Sabouraud. Fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. The show's production team also includes Jillian Weinberger and Vishakha Darbha. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is The Opinions, a show that brings you a mix of voices from New York Times opinion. You've heard the news. Here's what to make of it. I'm Nicholas Christoph. I'm an opinion columnist for The New York Times. I've been covering the world since the 1980s, and I spent a lot of my time reporting in poor countries. And I've seen both children dying unnecessarily and also the difference that American aid can make. One of the things that I'm proudest of as an American is what we did, on HIV-AIDS. And, you know, in the early 2000, Southern Africa was just devastated. I would come across households of orphaned kids living alone because all their parents had died and their caregivers who died.

And then President George W. Bush started PEPFAR, which was his big AIDS program. It saved 26 million lives so far. And I knew what was working when on one trip the coffin makers in Malawi told me that their business was collapsing because people were dying anymore. And I just felt so good about what we as taxpayers were able to do. But that era of American moral leadership, I fear, is now over. President Trump and Elon Musk are two of the world's richest men, and they're both boasting about cutting aid for some of the world's poorest kids. President Trump says that this is one of his achievements so far. To crush inflation by slashing spending, I imposed an immediate federal hiring freeze, a federal regulation freeze, and a foreign aid freeze. We're given to countries that hate us. We're giving billions and billions of dollars

to countries that hate us. And Musk tweeted, no one has died as a result of a brief pause to do a sanity check on foreign aid funding. No one. So I thought I would check on that. I traveled to South Sudan, which is one of the world's poorest and most fragile countries, And what I found is that what Musk said is absolutely not true. Just in my first couple of hours of reporting there, I had found the names of four people who had died because of the shutdown of American aid. What I heard over and over was that while some people are already dying from the aid shutdown, the toll will increase dramatically in the next few months as stockpiles have medicines and food run out. And as people get sicker and their immunity drops. And so while we're already seeing tragedies, those are going to multiply enormously in the coming months.

On this trip to South Sudan, I interviewed a health care outreach worker named Moses. This is Moses Okeni Labani. Moses was telling me about... Who would work with 145 children, mostly orphans and vulnerable children, so that they could get their AIDS medications and stay up. on the medications and keep alive. And Moses told me about an orphan named Peter, a 10-year-old boy who he helped look after, helped get his medications. So tell me about Peter.

Peter O'Dong started taking medication when he was four years. Peter was born with HIV, is that right? Exactly. But the program shut down. There was nobody to help him. Then his viral load increased. He got an opportunistic infection of pneumonia. Eventually, pneumonia sickle cell also entered his body, and then he died abruptly because there was no medication.

And pretty much the same thing happened to a couple of other kids. And everybody was pretty clear that if it wasn't for the aid shutdown, these kids would still be alive. Of course, if the USA would be here, people would have not die, because. because it would I be having enough medication. For me, one of the most poignant elements of this trip was when I visited a area in northwestern South Sudan that had never had health care, never had medical care. And so women were dying in childbirth, newborns were dying.

And then in December, this U.S.-funded maternity clinic opened in this area with a trained midwife. And it was an incredible success since then. Not one woman had died in childbirth, and not one newborn had died. And I got there and, you know, people saw this American showing up and asking about the clinic. And they mistakenly assumed that I had something to do with bringing the clinic to them. And they were so grateful.

There was a mom who was in labor and she wanted to name her baby after me. And the village elders assembled and they gave speeches thanking me and thanking America for its generosity. But what those villagers didn't know was that very powerful people, Washington had already decided to cut that program. And so that clinic was going to end that month. And so those pregnant women in that village were going to be once more bleeding to death there. These programs are being cut,

and these people are dying because of decisions in Washington by people like Elon Musk. So I asked people, you know, have you heard of Elon Musk? Does that name mean anything? No, I've never heard about it. So he is the richest man in the world. He helped dismantle USA. I explained that Musk said no one was dying.

So what would you tell him? What would you tell Elon Musk? And Moses said, well, that's a wrong message. Because if you wanted to learn something, you come in the grassroots. Like example, you come on the grassroot. I can take you to the facility.

You see the file for Chile. those children, some of there, I will call them to see them. This is what I can tell you. So on this trip and on other trips, when I'm in a village and I see children starving to death unnecessarily or dying of HIV and AIDS or moms dying in childbirth, then I think that, you know, this doesn't have to be this way, that we have the toolbox, we have the resources to make a huge difference,

I know that some folks hear about people being hungry in other parts of the world and they think, well, you know, that's not our business. We have to worry about our own problems. And I guess I'd make two arguments for why we should care. And one is simply the moral argument that when we are the wealthiest country in the world and for, you know, 12 cents a day per person, we can help them overcome AIDS and live good lives for tiny, sums, we can avert starvation, then that's just the right thing to do. We are linked by a common web of humanity, and we should respect that. But, you know, for those who maybe anti-freeze runs in their veins, if they don't have that empathy, then I think there's also an argument of a national interest. You know, we started these programs because they were a way to project American soft power

to win friends and influence around the world. We are in competition, particularly in Africa, with China. And as soon as we began cutting aid, China wanted to rush into the vacuum. In Cambodia, for example, it immediately aligned itself with UNICEF to become a more visible supporter of humanitarian aid there. So when we cut aid, China is a big beneficiary. And the other thing that foreign aid has done has been, vigilant about surveillance for diseases like Ebola, because it is an awful lot safer and cheaper to stop outbreaks where they happen abroad. And the upshot is that, you know, some Americans are

going to die of these diseases. Some Americans will get polio when we paralyzed. Some Americans will get drug-resistant TB, which can cost half a million dollars per case to address. So even If you don't care about the moral arguments, there is a actual argument in self-interest about how we benefit, how we protect ourselves by trying to help others. I hear an argument periodically that USAID is wasting resources. And, you know, I'm sure there is something to that. There are plenty of programs that can be improved and not all the money is invested in the best possible way. But then again, right now, there are tons of American food. aid that are rotting around the world because food isn't being shipped out. It's not being sent.

Money is being wasted right now because of the reckless way in which aid is being shut down. And I guess more broadly, I'd say that I completely agree with Trump and Musk that USAID should be reformed, but then let's reform it. Let's not just demolish it and blow it all up. Because when you do that, you eliminate not only the waste, but you result in a lot of people dying and necessarily around the world. If you like this show, follow it on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show is produced by Derek Arthur, Sophia Alvarez Boyd, Vichaka, Fibilett, Christina Samuoski, and Jillian Weinberger.

It's edited by Kari Pitkin, Alison Brusek, and Annie Rose Strasser. Engineering, Mixing, and Original Music by Issa. Music Jones, Sonia Herrero, Pat McCusker, Carol Sabarro, and Afim Shapiro. Additional music by Amin Sojota. The fact check team is Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, and Michelle Harris. Audience Strategy by Shannon Busta, Christina Samuelski, and Adrian Rivera. The executive producer of Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Dresser.