The Paikin Podcast - (Best Of) Martin Short: Being Canadian in Trump's America

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Steve and Martin Short discuss what it’s like being a proud Canadian in America, Jimmy Kimmel being pulled off the air, if there is increasingly a cost to be paid for making jokes about the wrong people in America, and Mark Carney’s "elbows up" commercial with Mike Myers. Then, a deep dive into Short’s comedy career, his experiences on Johnny Carson and David Letterman, making fun of Conan, his love for Diane Keaton, meeting his hero Frank Sinatra, who he thinks was the greatest late show guest of all time, and why he and Steve Martin are the bestest of pals. Support us: patreon.com/thepaikinpodcast Follow The Paikin Podcast: YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/@ThePaikinPodcastSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/1OhwznCIUEA11lZGcNIM4h?si=b5d73bc7c3a041b7X: x.com/ThePaikinPodINSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thepaikinpodcastBLUESKY: bsky.app/profile/thepaikinpodcast.bsky.social Email us at: [e-mail]  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hi, everybody. Steve Paken here. Some of you may remember, because I've interviewed him several times over the years, that Martin Short is from Hamilton, Ontario, and Steve Paken is from Hamilton, Ontario. Our relationship actually goes back multiple generations. My grandfather and his father were both in the steel business in Hamilton going back, oh, I don't know, 70 years or something like that. So we have known each other, if not his whole life, certainly my whole life. several months ago we had a chance to talk to Martin Short. He actually approached me. What a guy. He said, how does a boy like me get on your show? And I said, I don't need to be asked twice.

So here we go. A lot has happened since we did this interview. There is a terrific documentary about Martin's Life on Netflix called Life is Short. I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it yet. In the meantime, from several months ago, here's our one-on-one with the great Martin Short. Do you know, I put a special clothing on for you today. I've never worn this on any show before. Nor should you.

But you, nor should I. But you may recall 30 years ago that you helped save the Hamilton Tiger Cat football team, which was our hometown team. And they gave these shirts out. And mine amazingly still fits. And there you are. And the team is saved. And God willing, will go to the Grey Cup this year. And that was organized by a little chick named Marnie Paken.

I'm aware of her work as well. Yeah. that would be my mom. Now, full description. Years ago, years ago, I had this unbelievably great lunch into dinner with Jack Parr, the great host of the Tonight Show, one of the originals, he did it from 57 to 62. Before Johnny. He left the Tonight Show, gave it over to Johnny Carson and did this great.

And I didn't really watch him. The Tonight Show was too little. But I did watch him. He had a Friday night show from 10 to 11 on NBC, just Friday nights. And he'd do an hour. And he would get people that would never do the Tonight Show. And I love that show. And when I had dinner with him, I told him that.

And he sent me all these VHSs that I still have with a labeler. You know, that old labeler, you'd turn it an A. The Duo Tang. Yeah. and he had done it himself. And one of them was an hour with Judy Garland. And his introduction was, the bigger the star, the smaller the introduction. And if that is true, then Judy Garland needs no introduction and also abacadabra Judy Garland.

And so how about that introduction? It's true. It's true. And we don't need a long introduction for you because everyone knows who you are. I want everybody to know how this came about off the top because, and in the interest of full disclosure, your dad and my grandfather were buddies 70 plus years ago, which is why our families have known each other all the years. Yes. And you send me an email out of the blue not long ago saying, I'm adoring your podcast. How would a boy like me get on it? That's what you wrote to me.

Yes. And you said, talk to my people and I sent in a tape. I'm pretty sure that did not happen. But every time I have had a new program, whether it was Studio 2 or the agenda or this thing now, you have always volunteered to come on, even though I know you are insanely busy. So my first question is, why the hell do you do it? You don't need to do this, and I would never ask. First of all, I'm trying to get an agent. And secondly, Stephen, I've known you your whole life.

I remember going up to Glenn Eagles and seeing you and your brother playing road hockey as I was going in to drink with your mother. Ryan, and your point is? My point is that your mother and I had an alcohol problem. No, you did not. No, you did not. But you were great pals. That's for sure. And your father, of course.

I adore your father more than life. Who is 92 and thankfully still with us, which is amazing. Miracle. Wonderful. Now, Martin, I would love to talk to you about a range of stuff here. We're going to do some funny stuff, of course. I want to do a little serious stuff with you as well because you have been known to opine on some of the issues of the day.

So seeing you wearing your order of Canada now makes me ask, what is it like for a proud Canadian to be living in the United States these days? Well, I mean, it is precarious. It really depends where you live in the United States. You know, I mean, I live in California. You know, the governor is Gavin Newsom. So you don't really feel like, yes, there are civil liberal liberal, everybody's taken away, and there are raids, and there are empty home depots.

But I can't honestly say it personally affects me other than what I read and what you read. Do you have, and this is a subject of some discussion in Canada right now, about whether or not Canadians ought to travel in the United States. Do you have a view on whether people should take vacations down there right now or not because of everything? Personal, personal, you know. I don't think it's, I think the idea that it's dangerous or precarious is an overrated concept. But I think people are not coming to the United States out of a personal stance against what's, you know, the government's doing it. I do note you wear that order of Canada every time you're on television or every time you're doing a gig.

I know you do. And I know. But there's also no question. that probably nobody in America knows what that thing is and you wear it anyway. So how come? Oh, I'm doing it for Canadians. I'm not doing it for Americans. I'm doing it for Canadians. And I think that I was once in a restaurant years ago in Toronto, and I didn't have my pin on. And Norman Jewison came over the table and said, you got to wear the pen. And that's part of the rules, he said. And so I said, okay, yeah, I'll remember that, Norman Jewison.

I knew it bored, by the way. Did you work with him, Jerry? You didn't do a movie with him, did you? I knew him. I met him through the Budmans, my friends, Michael and Diane Bubman. Oh, the roots guys. And they were close friends with Eugene and Deb Levy. Got it.

Now, when Jimmy Kimmel was taken off the air for a little while, you pinch it for him, right? What did you think about his being taken off the air? over all of that business. Oh, that was preposterous. That was preposterous. That was such a horrible backfire for the intentions of the people taking them off. They fell flat on their face. And I think that Bob Agarra made the right decision and knew that you cannot, you cannot

respond this way in the United States of America to someone who had done absolutely nothing. Well, okay, let me follow up on that because obviously there's a view right now that there are real costs to telling jokes in the United States right now. Because if you do something that is in the view of some that's over the line, you're going to pay for it with your career. Do you feel at all more precarious these days? I don't think that's true. You're going to pay for it with your career? I don't think so. Well, I think everything in any situation that gets heightened,

They're also, the result of it is exaggerated perceptions. And that's not true. I mean, certainly, this was a very unique case. Case, there had never been an example of someone doing a joke and then getting removed from the air for three days. But I always knew that this would backfire for them, and it did. I have never personally felt, but I've never been, you know, political comedian. I've never, I'm, I, Steve and I, see Martin, I do shows all over the United States in every state. And we do not do a political show deliberately because people need a respite.

They need to go and feel safe. And you don't want to go, if you're, you know, on either party, you don't want to go and see someone and suddenly feel, oh, I thought I was going to see a comedian. and laugh and have entertainment now being lectured or made fun of because of my personal stances on political views. So, oh, I guess I'm an idiot. No, you don't want to do that. No, I've seen your show four times, I think, and you're a very ecumenical comedian. Both of the two of you are. Yeah. You know, yeah, you don't have to be in anybody's club to enjoy that show. Having said that, I do know you do get involved in politics in the United States. Do you think you will endorse a presidential candidate in time for the next election?

Yes, absolutely I would endorse. I mean, I think I personally, there are two parties, and you can have issues with your own party or your own nominee as an election approaches. I think the preposterous moronic stance that people will make is, I'm not voting for either one. That's like a moron. You have to make a decision. and if it's the lesser of two evils from your perception, make the decision.

Do you have a candidate yet? No. So you're open to persuasion still? Yeah. Okay. Do you know our new prime minister at all, Mark Carney? No, I don't. I don't know.

I only remember his name because of the honeymooners. No, no, no. Sorry, Martin. I think that was Art Carney. No, but I literally, that's how I could always remember his name. I see. Because he works in the sewers now just like his character did.

You're Ralph. You're Ralphie boy. You're Ralphie boy. Did you, I don't know how close you are with Mike Myers, but you know he did a commercial for Carnegie. Commercial, I think, was fairly influential, and it was certainly very funny. Has anybody ever approached you to do a commercial for a Canadian political party? No, they go to Mike first, and if he says yes,

they lose my number. Would you do it if approached? Absolutely. If I believed in that person, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I want to talk about fame for a second because I will confess as a guy who has been on television for 40 years most days of the week.

I do have people come up to me on the streets or on the subway or whatever every now and then. And they're very generous and they want to just, you know, pitch a story idea or talk about a show. But I have been in New York. city with you. Yes. And seeing your inability to walk two steps in any direction because you are mobbed. People literally mob you. They want selfies. They want to, they want to, I mean, it's just incredible to the point where it's really hard for you to get away. And I guess my question is, do you ever find that too much? Um, you know, it, It is a weird, it's like anything. You just get used to it all. I mean, I, I, I've been in

that kind of situation for many decades now. And, and it just becomes, you, you know what you expect it. You, you move quickly. You have certain, um, personal rules of what, when that can't be done. And when you say, you know, I'm having dinner with my kids. I'm sorry. No, I won't. And, but no, it doesn't restrict me in any way. I don't say, oh, I mustn't, you know, go to the theater because I'll, you know, I don't do that. I don't do that. No, but the day you and I were there together, like you could have stood there for two hours and people would have continued to come up to you and ask you for selfies and stuff.

Well, that's right. Yes, but that's why you don't stand there for two hours. I should keep moving. Got it. Got it. Well, let me ask you about some other people whom I think you. you and I have idolized over the years and just get your take on some of these folks. How many times did you do The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson?

Well, you know, it was very interesting. I was asked to do The Tonight Show as early as 1982. I was on SCTV. And I had a kind of pre-interview. Now, I was already at that point doing Dave Letterman's show. And Dave was my friend. And I thought he was the greatest and is the, greatest of them all.

But, and then I was going to, and then I, I want to say it's Jim McCauley, but I could be wrong. Maybe who's too important. Anyway, I had a pre-interview, and they kind of went through and, oh, Johnny might be, you know, no, if he seems to glaze over, don't take it personally. And I thought, oh, I don't need to do this. I'm too hip. I'll just do Letterman. And then, in late, 1986.

Now I'm in the movies, and I heard a rumor that Johnny might be retiring. And I thought, oh, my God, because I adored Johnny Carson. So I thought, oh, my God, if he leaves and I never did it, I will be so filled with regret. And then I realize, oh, I know why I'm not doing it. I'm too scared to do it because I idolized him. So then I did it. And my first time was in January of 1988. And I was, you know, because I was in the movies, I was supposed to be the first guest out.

And then they said, oh, we have a situation. Can you do it on the Thursday, not the Friday, because Betty Davis is supposed to do on Thursday, but now she can't. And she has to do it Friday. And it would mean if you did it Friday, you'd be the second guest out. And I said, I would be honored to be the second guest out and follow Betty Davis. And I did. And Johnny was just fabulous with me. And I did it, I think, nine times in the next four years.

Wow. And you imitated Betty Davis in front of her. Well, that was a bet. Rob Reiner. I had lunch with him. And he said, I'll give you $100 if you do Betty Davis to Betty Davis. And you did. Do you have any second thoughts about that?

She had no idea who I was. So I walked out and said, and what a pleasure to meet you. And she said, thank you. Because she, again, who was it? She thought that was my voice. Did she know? She didn't know you were doing her?

I don't think so. Okay. No, I don't think so. Nine times on the Carson Show. That's incredible. What stays with you all these years? The last week, the last week where people were lining around, sleeping around the studio in Burbank, trying to get tickets, you know.

Do you ever feel you actually kind of bonded with Johnny on a personal level? You know, one night I had done the show and he said, would you like to have dinner with me and Alex, you and your wife? And I said, sure, thinking, oh, please don't let that happen. I'd be too nervous. And it never happened. But Johnny liked me. I think Johnny was always, what was great about Johnny is that you,

just believed him. Like, he didn't laugh unless he was really amused. And he'd throw and rub under his eye. And he was so, because I think that the brilliance of that job is to be authentic. Make the audience believe that if they ran into you in a restaurant, you'd be like that. And I always felt from a kid on, oh, that's Johnny Carson, whether I was right or not, you know. You know, my dad's sister, Myra, was a booker on that show, right? Absolutely. Wouldn't it have been amazing if she'd got to book you? And that would have really been Hamilton represented.

No kidding. No, no, that was, we talked, your aunt and I talked endlessly about that in the days. Let me, since we're still talking about Johnny here, come back to the 30 years ago when you helped save the Hamilton Tiger Cats, which were going to go under. And you went to a lot of your friends in California and said, I need some signed this. I need some signed that.

We're going to auction it off. We're going to sign the team. How did you go or maybe did you go to Johnny Carson and say, can you autograph a mug for me so I can save my hometown football team? How did that happen? Oh, I think I didn't go to him personally. I reached out to, you know, you reached out to his office. He's too big to go personally, too.

You know, but, you know, Diane Keaton signed a hat. Spilberg signed posters and everyone signed everything. Yeah. Well, it was also a great to save your hometown football team. What greater thing can you do? It was a beautiful thing. Yeah. And now they did you know the Great Cup. Well, God willing, they're going to go to the Grey Cup. We'll see. They're in a bit of a slump right now, which I'm not happy about, but anyway. Martin, Diane Keaton, how well did you know her? Oh, my God. I was in a new her. for, I met Diane in 1991 and I was, everyone was in love with her. You could not be in the same room without Diane and not fall in love with her. It was because she was kind of Annie Hollish and she was so funny and so hip and so cool. One time, but I saw, so I was very close friends with her. Let's put it this way. At her AFI, I was seated beside her. Oh, wow.

Okay. Okay. It's funny. I've known you for a long time, but I don't really know your showbiz life very much. I didn't know if the two of you were close. Oh, very close. Well, you know, we made two movies together. And we actually made, and then in 2000, during COVID, we did Father of the Bride three-ish for a charity on the Internet. I mean, for, I guess it was, was it YouTube? I can't remember who it was for, but it was just, you know, for the Internet. And I adore Diane. We had dinner. She was at my house a million times for dinners. And one time she was, it was during the OJ trial in 95, when we were drinking Father the Bride 2.

And we're in the makeup trailer and I'm doing jokes and making noise. And she's trying to listen to the TV, got her hair and curder and her head's against the television, trying to listen. And I'm doing jokes. And Steve's laughing and Steve's doing jokes. And finally she turning me and said, Marty, if you don't shut up, I'll blow you.

She got mixed up, you know. And Steve said, Diane, I think you have to work on your insta. I won't ask how that turned out. And we'll be back right after this. Okay, let's talk about Letterman. I kept making noise, okay. You said earlier that you thought Letterman was the best of all time at a talk show host job. And, you know, I would have thought you said Johnny.

But tell me why you think it was Dave. Well, I mean, I'm not being literal. I think they're all spectacular. I love Jimmy Kimmel. I love Fal. I love them all. They're all my buddies, you know. But Johnny was so influential because when you're 12, that's when you're the most open to it all.

You know, but Letterman was the kind of guy. And Steve Martin will say this, and Jerry Seinfeld will say this, and Tom Hanks will say this. If you did well on Letterman, you felt great about yourself for two weeks afterwards. Because he was so good at it and so funny and so smart and so hip that you just kind of, to win Dave over, to make him laugh was an awfully great sense of self-accomplishment. And you worked hard at that, right? You put a lot of effort into coming up with a bit every time you went on that show. I've always done that.

I've always done that because I think that my agenda in general, whether it's making movies or doing anything, is to be unbelievably prepared. And because you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if the audience might not be very good. good, the host might be off that night. But you want to be able to go home and say, okay, you wanted it to be a 10 out of 10. It was a 7 out of 10, but you know what? I'm toasting myself with a glass of champagne because there's nothing else I could have done. So I would always send in reams of pages and jokes and things and prep. And then you can walk out gunning for

bear. And in Dave's case, you would hit about 30% of what I'm. I'd prepared. One time I was on and he said, oh, tell the Tony Randall story. I said, Dave, I was on five weeks ago and told the Tony Randall story. He said, I know, but no one's listening. How many times do you think you did Letterman? Oh, I think I did that about 50 times. Because I would do also cameos if I was on Broadway doing a show. I'd do the top 10. But I I did it a lot from 82 until he went off in 2015. I better did it 50. In fact, there's actually a thing on YouTube of he and Paul introducing a montage of all my appearances.

I've seen it, yeah. Again, a strange kind of question, but you two seemed on television like you were really great friends who would hang out together, go for dinner together, all that kind of stuff. Did that happen? Yes. Yeah. I have dinners with Dave and Paul, the three of us who have great dinners. So, I mean, he certainly pretends to be very antisocial.

Is he really in real life? You know, I don't, I don't know him well enough to know if he's antisocial or not, but he's, he's selective. Selective. Okay. Yeah. You and Conan O'Brien seem to have a thing whereby you come on, insult the hell out of him, and he laughs and takes it. I mean, I sound repetitive and creepy, but I am close friends with a lot of these people. And Conan is, you know, my longtime buddy.

And he looks forward to the insults. And, you know, when I say he looks like a freeze-dry, prince Harry, he just loves. that more than anyone, you know. Now, again, it seems all very spontaneous when you're doing it, but how much of what we see on the screen is, you know, planned ahead of time and how much is in the moment? You know, certainly the opening is planned. You know, I'm not going out there and just going to wing it. But then what happens is people get in a role and he says something and I say something, and we say something and we say, you know. One time I was on his show and I'd moved down the couch. the old show. And an actress came on and she said, you know, she was like a model who now was

doing her first TV movie and he asked her the question, this won't work on podcasts because it's visual. But he asked her, so you mainly model, but now you're having to learn lines. Is that, is that a great experience? Something like that. And I nodded like that. And I nodded like. like, hmm, how profound. And he looked at me, he saw me do it. And he started to laugh as she was answering. And then at commercial break, he stood up and walked around the couch and he said to me, I'm just trying to make a living asshole. Very good. Very good. I've heard it said numerous times that you are literally the best talk show guest of all time, in part because you plan so much, in part because you are you.

If I asked you that question, who do you think the best talk show guest of all time is? Who would you say? Oh, well, I mean, you know, Robin Williams is fabulous. Steve Martin is fabulous. Anyone who kind of takes over and, but, but it's, it's a fine balance because you, I have done appearances on talk shows. through in my life that when I see it back I think nope too much you it was you you you had funny jokes but you it didn't become a conversation and so it is a

balancing act of making sure that there is a give and take because you're dealing with very talented people you know you're talking about all these and Seth and everyone is so bright and talented so if you just come out and don't let anyone speak, that's an imbalance. Well, I remember you had a daytime talk show yourself, and so you know what that job requires. Right. The greats make it look effortless, but I guess you can tell us, how hard is it really to come out there for an hour every day and be brilliant and funny and, et cetera? Well, you know, I particularly did an insane approach to it where I was, you know, doing sketches and makeup and glick and, and, and prosthetics. And I do my,

segment opening morning meetings in the makeup chair as they're putting, you know, latex in my face. I mean, it was, and I think by the end when Carson was doing, he'd show up around one, you know. And so I think that there is an ease to it that you get used to, you know. I remember I did a series of James L. Brooks, and he said to me that, you know, he had done the Mary Tonner Moore show, all the classes. classics, Phyllis, and all these shows.

But he said, season three, second episode of Mary Tyler Moore, he turned to Ed Weinberger's partner. I said, I think we figured it out. You know, so it takes time to know exactly the right rhythm. But it's daunting. It's endless. I guess I filled in for Jimmy Kimmel last year. And at the end of that week, I thought, I'm glad it's just a week.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a lot. I want to ask you about this guy over my left shoulder, Frank Sinatra, greatest singer of all time. Yes. You met him. I did. I did.

On that go. I was at a party. It was at a party at the producer George Schlautters house. And the president you met there. And then a bunch of celebrities gone on a bus. We went to the Greek theater. We were in the front rows. We saw Sinatra.

Shirley MacLean opened, then Sinatra, and then we went back to George Slaughter's House for a party. And at the party, Dina Schor was there and said, Hey, do you want to meet Frank? I said, yeah. So I went up to him and I said, Mr. Sinatra, I'm Martin Short, and you have no idea.

You have no concept of how big a fan I am of your. And he said, I think I do. I bet he did. I think he'd heard it before. Yeah. Did he know you? He said, now Paul Schaefer maintains that I'm making this up. Because he said he didn't speak like he spoke in guys and dolls.

I said, he said to me, I know well of you and you're marvelous. Oh. Yeah. Hell, take that. Yes, absolutely. Did you guys ever perform again? been around for a bit. Right. Did you ever perform with him? No, no, no, no, no. Do you ever try to? No, no. There was no opportunity to. No, I was saying, hey, do you want to open for Frank? No,

I never got that call. I mean, that would have been, right? That would have been the greatest moment of one's life, wouldn't it? Yeah, it'd be pretty cool, pretty cool. But you know, it is interesting. I mean, Frank was lovely that night. We didn't have a long hang, but it is that old. It is that old. adage that do you really want to meet your idols? What if they disappoint you? Then you can't listen to the albums anymore. And did he disappoint you? No, he was absolutely charming and lovely and fun. I said to him, I did get mixed. I was so nervous. He said, what are you drinking, kid? And I said, whatever you're drinking, Frank? And the bartender, he turned the bar, he said, give him a Jack Daniels. And the bartender said, straight up on the rocks.

I thought he said straight up or relaxed. I said, I'll have it relaxed. He said, straight up or on the rocks. I thought I'll have, Jesus, I've had my pissed off, Frank. But no, it wasn't. And then I remember Diamond Shore came up and said, I'm leaving Frank. Are you driving the Trankus? Yeah.

You want to borrow my pistol? She said, I don't need pistol, Frank. And it was kind of sexual. I thought it was listening and excited. That's very cool. Yeah. Well, Marty, take a swig of juice or whatever you've got there for a second because to keep podcasts on the air, we actually have sponsors. And I have to do an ad read here.

And then I come out of this ad read with a question for you. This is an ad read about the ongoing affordability crisis in Canada that no doubt affects everybody who's watching or listening to this. And Canadians have the right to know whether their governments are making life more or less affordable. The organization representing Canada's brewers wonders if you knew that in Canada, 46% of the, the price of beer is government taxation. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, now, now you do. Canada imposes higher taxes on beer than any of the other great beer nation, so that's higher than Germany, Belgium, Mexico, the U.S., the UK, Brazil, Denmark, or Ireland. At 46% it's higher than any country in the G7. And Canada's already high beer taxes go up annually and automatically. Beer Canada says the powers

that be hope you won't notice. They call it sneaky. They think it's automatic and therefore not democratic. And now that you know you can do something about it, Beer Canada would like you to help stop this practice of automatic beer tax heights. So go to the website, Hereforbeer.ca, that's hereforbeer.ca. And ask yourself, why does the best beer nation have the worst beer taxation? That is a message in the interest of fairness and transparency from our friends at Beer Canada. And it prompts me to ask you, Mr. Short, if you had the opportunity to sit down and have a beer with anybody ever at any point in history, who would it be? Oh, my God. Well, God would be a good choice. God would be a good hang. I would say I'd be intrigued to have a beer with Marlon Brando.

I would have intrigued to have beer with John F. Kennedy. What would you ask Brando? I don't know. I just ask him. So like when you do that scene, I'd be like Chris Farley, you know, the Chris Farley should. So like when you do this scene and on the waterfront and the glove dropped and then you put even Marie Saint's glove on. I mean, it was like, did you know how great that was when you were doing? I'd be a more. Got it. Okay.

I want to ask you about some of the stuff you're currently doing. For example, the match game, which is the reboot of the show that we watched with Gene Rayburn when we were kids. Yes. Why'd you want to do that? Oh, I think it's always. intriguing to do something that you have no idea if you can pull it off at this stage. You know, I mean, if someone says, hey, do you want to do a live show summer? You know, you can do.

I've done that endlessly. How about you do a show with Steve Martin? Well, I do that. How about you act in a movie or a play? But doing something that required a lot of improvisation, we deliberately went with film long so that the funny people and the celebrities would feel loose and could improvise and we'd edit, you know, the stuff that didn't work. And so that was, that was the challenge of that.

A loose form. Are you enjoying it? Well, no, it's only, it's a one-off. It was a summer show. Oh, okay. Okay. I mean, I've sent you emails about this. I don't know three quarters of the people because I'm just not in touch with popular culture enough.

that you have on the show but you your stick with them is hysterical and and it's mostly you sort of putting them down or putting them in their place you know kevin neelin and and adam palli and all the they're really hilarious people selina was on and and and andrew martin you know pretty great people yeah when you decide what you want to do or perhaps more pointedly, what you don't want to do, what you want to pass on. What are the most important criteria for you at this stage of the game? Well, I think if it's, you know, it becomes pragmatic in a way. If it's a movie script and it's not very good, you don't do it. If it's a movie script and it's pretty good and the director, you know, YouTube, the director at YouTube, you, you, you, Wikipedia,

that director and you realize his last seven films have all been bad, you pass. So it's really about who you're going to hang with. If I heard that someone was difficult or could be mean, I would pass in a second. You know, my epitaph, the thing is that I know about myself, my epitaph has been written. There's nothing, you know, that's going to change that. So it's not like you're, this could be the break I'm looking for it. So what you're looking for is ease fun. When we do only murders in the building, one of the criteria, one of the big attractions that show beyond the enormous creative elements of it from writing and directing is that everyone, it's considered the happiest, loosest, most fun set of any show in New York.

And so that's a big part of it. You know, the first day we shot, I was driving to work, and I had never met Selena Gomez, because it was COVID. So we would do read-throughs on Zoom. And I'm driving to work and thinking, what is Selena Gomez? What if she's mean? What if she's late? If she's late, Steve will do one season, that's it, because that would, I mean, Steve. Steve has never shown up anywhere for anywhere, I mean, any appointment without being five minutes early.

And so that would like drive him through. And then I went into the makeup room and she was already there. And I looked at her and we talked for two minutes. I went, I'm in love. She was this ooze, this sweetness. And of course, she'd been in show business since she was 15 or 14. So she was an old pro, you know. Well, the rapport shows on the screen, and I'm going to push back a little bit on your claim that your epitaph has already been written because my hunch is when you were younger, you probably didn't think, at the age of 75, I will have the biggest hit show of my life.

So you kind of never know, right? I don't assume that. I mean, it is kind of amazing that given all the stuff that you've done, you've got the biggest hit show of your life at this stage of your life. Yes, it's absolutely unusual. I mean, it is. But that's actually the draw of show business. That's why, you know, young actors who struggle, and now they look in the mirror and say, oh, I'm 35, what do I do?

They're still drawn to stay in because it is a bit of a lottery. You don't know. Years ago, I was watching back to Johnny Carson. I was watching Tony Randall. It's like mid-70s. I'm 15. and he was in the odd couple. And Odd Couple was about fourth year of being a big hit.

And Johnny Carson said, so, Tony, how long do you think you'll stay with the odd couple? And Tony just stared at him and said, John, that's the dumbest question I've ever heard you ask anyone. I will stay with the odd couple as long as it's a hit because hits are flukes. and I think one of the you know mistake that any young actor makes who is in a hit early on is the assumption that it's going to happen again and again and again it may only have ports

you know you can be very good in something you can have the greatest role in something but if no one sees that thing it's not a hit so a hit is a home run as we just saw at the Blue Jays game the other night Hmm. Do you know, or I guess I should say how far into doing it, do you know whether it's a hit or not? You don't. You don't. You go to Daileys, but and you look and you, and mainly you go to Daily's initially just to see, is the director any good?

Like, I'm talking about a movie now. Is the director any good when he said, we're moving on? Should he have moved on? you know because the actor's job is to give a fast take slow take big small different levels of of performance and if you're playing a character even like fronk and fathered bride you can't you can't look like you're trying to be funny you just have to be the eccentric character and let the audience decide if it's funny um but in only murders in the building again you didn't know it was going to be a hit but i'm an executive producer so you'd look at a rough cut and go this works. I hope people like it, but at least creatively it works. I know you were in that two-part documentary about Steve Martin, but did you actually see it as well?

Yes, I did. You did. Okay. I'm going to offer an opinion, and then I'd like your review on this. Because watching you two together in that documentary, I think I gained some insight into why you two are so great on stage together and why you have such a great friendship. And that is, you just genuinely make him laugh. And he must know a lot of people in his world whom he tolerates, but he adores you. I mean, it seems to me, as I look at the two of you together, because you genuinely can make him laugh. Am I on to something here? Well, I mean, I think it's not complex, really. I mean, Steve and I are just very close friends. and I think you have friends that are not in show business who make you laugh.

So you like them for that reason. Maybe that's the initial attraction. But then other qualities take over, and that becomes an important thing. You can have a friend that makes you laugh who cheats in his wife every third week, and you're not going to be close with that person or can make you laugh, but is not forthright in his judgment. on human behavior, you're not going to be close with that friend. So I think, Steve and I have been close, close friends for 40 years now.

We've made five movies. We've done five years of a television series. We've done a thousand appearances on stage. And we vacationed together. And, you know, our families are close with each other. And, no, there's a long, long history. No, I guess I should have specified. It might start with the laughter.

And it certainly gone on beyond that. But it felt to me watching the two of you together and watching the spontaneity with which he laughs at stuff that you do. I just thought, okay, of course the friendship is deeper and more and beyond humor. Well, I think it's like anything. It's like if you go out with someone and initially you say, boy, she's, she's, she's, She's pretty. But you don't marry her for that reason. Okay.

Got it. Who makes you laugh? Steve makes me laugh. Eugene makes me laugh. Conan makes me laugh. I have a lot of, a lot, Christopher Guest, Billy Crystal. I have a lot of funny, funny, funny friends. You do?

Yeah, I do. I do. And I sometimes will sit in a restaurant, you know, Deb Dev Devine, who is hilarious, Eugene's wife, Levy's wife, said that on her gravestone, she wanted to just say, I was at 100,000 funny dinners. And I'll sometimes sit in a restaurant and I'll hear a bunch of people talking about, you know, and that merger, I found that we knew that the transaction. was going to be from that corporate.

And I think, oh my God, what if I was at that table? I remember Jamie Lee Curris once told me years ago that she, you know, she'd be sitting at a table with her mom, Janet Lee, and her stepfather, and they'd just be quietly eating dinner the three of them. And she'd look over and see a table of people laughing hysterically. And she'd think, how do I get to that table? It's a very Christopher guest. Cool.

Martin, I have one last question for you, and admittedly it's a bit touchy-feely, so here we go. You've done movies, you've done TV, you've done Broadway, you sing, you've traveled all over the world, you have kids, you have grandkids, you have loved and been loved by some wonderful women in this world, and maybe the greatest gift of all, especially in this day and age, you can make people laugh. What else could possibly be on your bucket list? I have no bucket list. I have no bucket list. I mean, at 75, if you haven't done it, there's a reason. You know, I mean, I've never directed a stage show or a movie. But that's because I don't want to.

It's not like, geez, someday. It's just simply not that. It's, you know, to me, like directing, years ago, Stephen Spielberg asked me to, direct something for DreamWorks. And I thought about it. And I thought, no, no, no. Stephen was the nine-year-old with a camera and, you know, wanting to be, I was up my attic wanting to be Sinatra, you know, doing my imaginary television shows. So that makes sense that I'm in front of the camera. So I don't, I've never been to certain countries because I don't really want to go to those countries. It's not like, and someday. So I don't know. I don't honestly have a bucket of it.

I think I've done, I've had such a fortunate life from a show business standpoint that I think that there's very little that I could say I haven't done. I just love doing it. I love, I enjoy performing. I enjoy acting. I love the different disciplines that it requires. The goal, the, you know, because every time you start something new, no matter. who you are if you're you know leo decaprio or you're anyone it's a it's it's a empty canvas it's a new mountain to climb and you wonder if you can pull it off and when you do there's a great deal of

satisfaction keep climbing marty love you stephen love you back and i love the fact that you still want to have these conversations with me from time to time oh i will do so much anytime Good. Someone should, you know, spend some time with him these days. It's not a very, not a very interesting person. Believe me, I've been there. Peace and love, Marty. See you.