The Paikin Podcast - Everything Political: Can Avi Lewis Save the NDP?

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Kathleen Monk joins the Everything Political panel with former MPs Martha Hall Findlay and Tony Clement to discuss the NDP convention, Avi Lewis’s first ballot victory, whether he is the right choice to rebuild the NDP, and the passing of his father Stephen Lewis. They also discuss how the NDP can be relevant again, the equity card moment at the convention, whether the NDP will be about “the factory floor or the faculty lounge,” if they have learned lessons from Mamdani’s rise in New York City, where Lewis will find a seat, and where exactly the NDP go from here. Restaurant Canada's manyhandswork.ca    Support us: patreon.com/thepaikinpodcast Follow The Paikin Podcast: YOUTUBE: http://www.youtube.com/@ThePaikinPodcastSPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/1OhwznCIUEA11lZGcNIM4h?si=b5d73bc7c3a041b7X: x.com/ThePaikinPodINSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thepaikinpodcastBLUESKY: bsky.app/profile/thepaikinpodcast.bsky.social Email us at: [e-mail] 

Well, we want to start with the sublime and then go to the ridiculous. The ridiculous being Tony's jersey, which we'll get to later. Tony, I don't know what you're thinking, but you're mocking me, my friend. You're just mocking me. For those who don't know, every time the Habs win, which has been six in a row at the time of taping, I send a little message to Steve, along with a mutual friend of ours, to mock him. It's not, I'm not proud of this, but it's now part of the routine. to continue the winning ways of

they can add the end of Malia. Yeah, you can stop any time, but I'm sure you're getting a great deal of pleasure out of it. I am. Anyway, that is the ridiculous, but I do want to talk about the sublime as well, and the sublime I'm referring to on this day is a guy that I think we all knew to a greater or lesser extent,

and that's the great Stephen Lewis. And as long as I've got Kathleen Monk here to start things off, Kathleen, how well did you know him, and what are you thinking about him today? Well, like any new Democrat, I've been following Stephen Lewis for years. Even before, frankly, I was a card-carrying New Democrat. I followed his career and listened to him speak at conventions and schools around Canada and obviously on the international stage.

I mean, he was quite simply a legend, a political legend. And what really is amazing about Stephen Lewis is despite him going on to a very lauded career internationally, he was always truly a solidly. Democrat at heart and never abandoned those new democratic principles. You know, someone who fought as Ontario New Democratic leader for working people and then fought, you know, on the global stage, you know, against injustice and unfairness and around the HIV-AIDS crisis specifically. I think I'm sure you would agree with me, Steve, and others that, you know, really Stephen Lewis was probably Canada's best political orator. His ability to commit.

a room and move them to action was just incredible. I was speaking about this last night on one of the network televisions when we learned of his passing that he had an ability to almost pierced your heart with his words, with his passion, with his urgency, with his moral clarity. And it really moved people to action and move people like me to action, that you could actually get involved in politics and make a difference. And really contribute and fight social injustices. at home and abroad. Yeah, so it's a huge loss. We've lost our lion, as they say. I repeat what I've

said elsewhere, that I feel like God broke the mold after they made Stephen Lewis. I think he was really a truly remarkable man, and we can all aspire to kind of follow in his footsteps. Kathleen, I'll take issue with one word you said there. You said probably the best orator in politics. not probably. Number one, for sure, the greatest I've ever seen. I don't take that back. I've seen some good ones. I've seen some great ones. But I put him at the absolute top of the pyramid, just a preternatural ability to take an audience in the palm of his hand and just take them on a journey, which was spectacular. Tony, how well did you know him? So I knew him through my late stepfather, who was a member of the Ontario legislature and a Davis cabinet minister.

And they knew one another. And it was through that connection that I knew him. So this goes back to the mid-1970s, I'm talking. So he was part of the broader kind of household in that sense. He had that connection to John T. Clement. And yeah, so I followed his career very avidly as a result of that sort of family connection and would agree with everything that you said about his passion and his ability to turn a crowd. And, you know, I confess I did not agree with him on many, many issues, but I did agree.

Yeah, but you know what? That doesn't stop. No, no. That never stopped Stephen Lewis from, you know, getting along just fine with Tories like Bill. Davis and Brian Marrooney. That's right. And, you know, Stephen, you and I have talked about this. Like, there's actually a lot of issues where socialists and conservatives align these days. And so, you know, I just think he was a force of nature in Canadian politics. He deserves to be lauded. I lauded him on Twitter and got the usual suspects who have no context to, you

immediately think that I've turned socialist or something because I'm louding a dead man who was a socialist. But aside from those idiots on Twitter, and I use that term not advisedly, you know, I stand by my comments. He was an important part of our Canadian history and deserves all the accolades he gets. Martha, let's get you to weigh in. Well, we, you know, I had the good fortune of meeting him a few times, but I wouldn't say, I knew him, which my loss, right? But, man, I was an admirer from afar. So I agree completely.

Best orator ever, Kathleen, love the passion with which you talk about his passion. I think that's wonderful. He for sure was one of the key people who inspired me at some point to get involved, not just in politics, but in helping, doing what we can to make a difference. right? I did not become a new Democrat. It didn't matter. What he inspired in us was that passion to do something. And we could absolutely disagree on how to get there, but no one ever could doubt Stephen Lewis's passion for people, for our communities, for our country, and for people disadvantaged around the world. I mean, I just, yeah, a huge loss.

but an inspiration that will never stop, right? Like, he'll continue to inspire just his legacy. So fantastically interesting. I think the next conversation then goes to, okay, next generation. And I know Steve, that's where you want to go. You handed me a beautiful segue there because you want to talk Stephen Lewis's legacy.

Part of it is his life and part of it is the guy we're about to talk about, his son Avi. And let's do that on this edition of Everything Political. Everything Political, presented by Bruce Power. Delighted to welcome back to the Paken podcast on Everything Political. Tony Clement, the former conservative federal cabinet minister and Ontario cabinet minister as well. Martha Hall-Finley, the former Liberal MP, now director of the school of public policy at the University of Calgary. And this week, our special guest, Kathleen Monk, president, monk and associates, the communications consulting firm.

and of course she was director of communications for the NDP when Jack Layton was the leader. And Kathleen, I'll put you to work right away on this one as we welcome you. We've had a few days now to think about the new leader of the federal NDP, Avi Lewis, a very impressive first ballot victory last weekend in Winnipeg. Once he finishes taking some family time, obviously, to grieve the loss of his father, what do you say is job one for him as the new leader of the party? Yeah. What a busy first few days for a new leader, right? Both on a professional and a personal level. I'd be remiss if I didn't remark on how Avi and his winning speech did cite his father and how he demanded up until his dying days, you know, all the political data on the campaign and how close his son was to winning. So, you know, political animal, Stephen Lewis, to his, his life. last breaths.

For Avi, certainly... It's a beautiful thing that he got to be alive long enough to see his son win that thing. Isn't it amazing? Yeah, as a parent, wow. That's, it's really, really special. First job, job number one, has got to be relevancy, Steve. We know the NEP has been in the political wilderness for almost a year. It was, you know, at the end of April, April 29th, when Jagmete Singh was delivered a crushing

blow, historic losses in the last 2025 election, and he resigned his seat. And so essentially, New Democrats have been leaderless, you know, since that time. Although, kudos to Don Davies for the incredible job he did in the interim, big fan of Mr. Davies. But we have to get back to not just rebuilding the party, but actually being relevant to Canadians.

We were excluded from the conversation, largely in the last election, because New Democrats didn't have an answer. to the economic threats that were being posed by Donald Trump and the crisis that Canadians were facing, not only the crisis of possible annexation, but the economic threats that they felt in their core. And they didn't turn to new Democrats. And so how does Avi Lewis and his new version of this party answer that question, you

know, that working people have is, how are you going to help me out when we're facing such a tough affordability crisis? We're being threatened. Our jobs are being threatened. Our very livelihoods. So I think that's number one, is breaking through the political narrative with a message that resonates to Canadians. I think on that score, you know, Avi Lewis will probably do a great job.

He's an effective communicator, a longtime journalist. You know, he knows. He comes to obviously, as we just spoke about, comes from a family of compelling speakers. So I think he'll find a way to actually. get back into the political narrative. But there's just so much work that Mr. Lewis has to do in terms of digging the party out of debt, rebuilding electoral district associations across the country, and then arguably also, you know, finding a seat in the House of Commons, right?

Oh, yeah. Hold off on that because I want to come back to that later. That's a big one. And he may have an opportunity to do that sooner than we think. So we're going to hold off on that. And we'll be back right after this. You've probably noticed something changing at your favorite restaurant. Maybe it's shorter hours, a smaller menu, or longer waits.

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Practical workforce solutions can help fill critical gaps and keep restaurants open and thriving. Take a minute to visit this website. It's called manyhandswork.ca where you can learn more. That's manyhandswork.ca and see the full story. Let's note that the person who came second at the convention was Heather McPherson, who's an Alberta new Democrat member of parliament. And if the job is relevance, do you think the convention picked the right person? For people in Alberta, absolutely not. I would say Alberta, Saskatchewan, an awful lot of BCers.

I mean, let's understand British Columbia is an interesting jurisdiction in the sense that there's an awful lot of folks in the lower mainland that are, you know, to be of Kathleen's persuasion often. But an awful lot of people in the rest of the province are much more, I would say, sorry, but pragmatic and recognizing the importance of our natural resources to our national economic prosperity. And I would say, I say national very, very consciously. This is not an Alberta thing. It's not a Saskatchewan thing. You know, when you have somebody who comes out and says, no more energy infrastructure at a time when our country is desperately in need of whatever opportunities for increasing our economic prosperity and recognizing the importance of our resources to, and now in the geopolitical world, increasingly our allies

around the world who need what we have seems to me rather naive, frankly. And you can already hear the challenges, you know, Naid Manchi, who's the leader of the NDP in Alberta, I think, you know, Wab Canoe, who I think has done a super job as Premier looked a little uncomfortable. With the convention there, Tony, I can see you smiling. This will be, I think, the bigger challenge. Whether the federal NDP becomes relevant and without really having a real sense of how to find that economic prosperity, the sound bites are great. But, okay, how, right?

You need to actually have some really clear ideas on how to generate the prosperity that you you can't have jobs without prosperity, right? So that'll be very interesting, but I think what will be really even more interesting is how did the provincial NDP, how did the provincial new Democratic parties find a connection with the federal one if they can't?

Because I see a really big division now. Okay, Tony, how about you weighing in on this? If relevance, if becoming a player again on the Canadian political scene? Is job one, as Kathleen has identified it? Did New Democrats pick the right guy? Well, I think they picked a guy. We'll all find out together whether it was the right choice or not.

He's got some good communication skills. He's savvy. However, I think there's a big hill to climb. And even some of the images coming out of the NDP convention, which are being mocked in the, at least in the conservative commentariat sphere, you know, about all these different colored cards, which meant that you could, you had a right to speak or didn't have a right to speak depending upon your gender or orientation or something. That's being, it was basically being mocked as ridiculous. And, you know, I put it this way to everyone, you know, is, Avi Lewis going to be able to represent the factory floor or is he still representing the faculty

lounge? And, you know, for conservatives, that's a very important question too, because we made huge inroads amongst blue-collar workers in parts of Ontario and British Columbia, elsewhere. And, you know, we want to hold on to those votes and still continue to represent blue-collar blue collar workers, which traditionally has been the habitat of the new Democratic Party. But, you know, so that's a big job that Avi Lewis has got to do. Can he claw back those votes and that support? You know, what I saw at that convention outside of the leader was a lot of the woke stuff that has, in my view, plagued the NDP for years now, including once the leader was announced, everybody got on stage, and the only flag being waived was the Palestine flag.

There was no Canadian flag. So these are all issues that have to be addressed if they're going to be relevant in Canadian politics, in my view. Kathleen, I should get you actually just to sort of explain because I suspect most of the people watching or listening to this have not been to New Democratic Party conventions and therefore may not understand the reference Tony just made there. But there was a lot of traffic on social media commenting on the fact that new Democrats, I guess in an attempt to make sure, because I see this all the time when we do town halls as well.

When I do a town hall show, the people who rush to the microphones to ask questions and comment, it's just a reality, tend to be white men. And I guess this is an effort by New Democrats to make sure that a broader base of people get a chance to have at the microphone. Why don't you explain how that works at those conventions? Yeah, I just said, I want to keep your audience, so I'm not going to, I think it's so in the weeds that nobody cares.

And I worry about Tony if he's spending that much time down the Twitter, you know, algorithm. I worry about me too. Because I think the broad base of Canadians really, they don't attend political conventions. They're not that engaged. And it's the issues that really matter around income inequality, around fairness, around how the price at the grocery store is outrageous. or the pumps right now, what we're paying at the gas pumps. And it's that message.

It's not the insider political convention. Listen, New Democrats have around only 100,000 members, you know, about 2,000, less than 2,000, excuse me, attended the convention. This is like a drop in the bucket in terms of the voter pool that's out there.

And the larger voter pool is not spending their time on Twitter or in conservative dark rooms talking about, you know, cards at the mic. What they're talking about is the challenges of paying for their kids soccer fees this spring, right? They're trying to figure out how they're going to pay for that and still summer camps. That's what Canadians are worried about. And when Avi Lewis or any new Democratic leader gets out there and actually starts talking

about how we're going to address the affordability crisis, something that Carney really, with the exception of the GST rebate, really hasn't talked about on a pocketbook level with Canadians, you know, how he's going to help them, you know, make their grocery dollars, you know, lasts a little bit longer. Avi is proposing solutions. Now, whether those solutions will work out, like a public grocery store or a public option on telecoms or some of these things,

you know, that remains to be seen how that policy can get executed and actually operationalized. But I do think the idea that people are looking at their cell phone bills and they're looking at their grocery bills and saying, this is outrageous and we want someone to answer that. And if I could just say one more thing, Steve, on the premiers and the very real regional issue, that Martha so eloquently raised, there is a problem with some of the Western provinces.

But it is important to note that Wab Canoe, who is the most popular premier in the country right now, who is soaring, who I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure is as high, if not higher than Carney, in terms of personal popularity, lend considerable brand equity, political equity to Mr. Lewis this weekend and came out a number of times swinging and did not look uncomfortable. I just want to challenge that one point. But in fact, embrace Mr. Lewis several times and said on air, I love the guy. I hope he does well. It's okay if we disagree on some things.

As new Democrats, we agree on a lot more than we disagree on. And I certainly respect the fact that at this moment in time, the resource issue is a huge challenge for Mr. Lewis. But I do think that if he can be smart enough to thread the needle, to talk about the issues, the affordability crisis, just the living crisis that we're all going through, that he can actually inspire some hope and move people off, even though some of his items, policy items, issue sets are quite challenging in this current environment. If I can, because, you know, the two main issues you raised,

like grocery prices, right? Yet the NDP historically continue to support, blindly support, supply management and dairy, poultry and eggs in Canada, which happens to be the fundamental, group of food that are critically important for our health, right? And supply management in Canada supports an increasingly small number of very, very wealthy producers in dairy, poultry and eggs at the expense of grocery prices. So I cannot understand if that is one of his two biggest items that he wants to deal with,

but by gosh, we're still going to support supply management. it is absolutely nonsensical. So I'll be very interested to see what happens over the next level. Can I just say, would it be a panel with Martha if supply management wasn't raised? I just want to say, tears. I think, Kelly. I do a lot that I don't raise it, but I couldn't resist raising it because it was one of the two key points that you just raised for Mr. Lewis's challenges.

So there you go. Well, as long as we're pushing back here, I'm going to push. back a little bit on Tony's characterization that Wob Cano looked uncomfortable at the convention. I didn't say that. You said that. No, that was me. Steve. That was Martha. Oh, sorry. It wasn't me. I take it back. Forgive me. That that Montreal Canadian's jersey has just got me so flummox here. I'm sorry. I just, I completely blew that one. It's making you uncomfortable. I'll push back on that as well as Kathleen. I thought as soon as he was finished his speech, Wob Canoe walked right up to him, grabbed his arm, thrust it in the air. They look.

like they were getting on just fine. I really do think the ability for somebody like Premier Canoe to say, we might not agree on everything, is an indication of why he's such a good politician, I think, because that's very authentic, and I do appreciate that. All right, having said that, Tony, government-run grocery stores. Let me just put to you what Andrew Coyne said in his column in the Globe Mail the other day, which was, no, he wasn't about to endorse any of those ideas that Avi Lewis has advanced. But having said that, he believes that Lewis believes those in his gut are the right way to go

and that there's a lot of marks in politics today for authenticity, even if you're wrong in the issues. What do you think about that possibility? Well, it's amazing that Andrew will say that about the NEP, but he never says that about conservative. But anyway, I leave that as it may. I look, I think that as we've seen, and we've talked about this on the show about Mamdani and the impact in New York City and the knockdown impact in American progressive politics. Yeah, I mean, you can have a whole series of policies which in their individual cases do not stand. They're not sensible. But if they show an inclination or a direction of, of,

as we mentioned earlier, passion or defending the little guy or whatever you want to call it, then it does lend itself to authenticity. I'm not a big fan of government-run grocery stores because I'm not a big fan of government-run anything. But, you know, it does, it's consistent with socialist principles. And Avi has talked about the public ownership and public direction. and control will solve our ills. I disagree with that, but it's, it's, it's an internally consistent and legitimate point of

view, which happens to not to be my point of view. But I think that that will, I think that they've studied Mom Dani, I would say, and, uh, and are learning some lessons. And, uh, I think we're going to see more of that. And to, uh, the point of a Kathleen, um, I would, and, and expect that Lewis as a leader will lean into these cost of living issues and these issues of affordability. It'd be crazy if he didn't. He's he's not bananas. He's smart. So, so in that sense, we'll see more of that. And then the only question is whether he gets tripped up by some of the internal inconsistencies within the, the tent that is progressivism or

progressive socialism in Canada, where he can't get that message out because of all the other ridiculous things that are being said within that tent. So that's the challenge he has to keep his eye on the ball, not be distracted by all these other tangential issues, which NDPers tend to focus on. And then he could make some progress. I really, I really can foresee that. Kathleen, how do you like his chances of doing what Tony just laid out as the big challenge ahead for him? Listen, I think that Avi Lewis does have an abundance of authenticity. Authenticity. Like, I think that he will relate to people.

He's brought in more members into the party. His fundraising numbers eclipsed leadership fundraising numbers for people like Christiane Freeland in the last liberal race and Karina Gould. So he has both political power and some prowess there, but he also has the ability to relate to people. I take Tony's point on that maybe he's been spending a bit too much time in the ivory tower. I think he borrowed a line on the faculty room stuff versus the factory floor that I've heard circulating before. But I do think that his approach, which is one that Canadians want to address the issues, the big issues of our time, cost of living, and then steer off some of the more controversial issues, like maybe the resource issue for now, would be smart advice. I also think that there's a huge open pathway for Mr. Lewis on things like the environment.

I do note that Mr. Carney, Prime Minister Carney, basically day one after Mr. Lewis's election, finally rolled out his plan on nature yesterday, dropping something like $3.8 billion that has been widely asked for since, you know, for over a year now. and he finally kind of rolled it out. Maybe that was a defensive move by Mr. Carney. I also think, Steve, that there's lots of room for New Democrats to criticize the liberal position and generally criticize, obviously, the war on Iran and the tumult it's taking around the world. New Democrats in the past, my colleagues here would remember, got a lot of traction around anti-ballistic missile defense on obviously the war in Iraq and, you know, Canada's

eventual decision not to join that. And then critically, as I was a part of Jack Layton's team at the time, the decision really to, you know, withdraw from Afghanistan and no longer partake in that war. You know, Jack Layton was ridiculed at the time in 2006 when he took that position, badly ridiculed. And, you know, with a long lens of history and not that long, even just 20 years, we see that that was really probably the right decision that Mr. Layton made at the time, although it was a very difficult one and he paid at massive political price. But I do think that, you know, that whole cohort of New Democrats that want us to seek peace is an avenue that Mr. Aluus has as well.

And we'll be back right after this. Let me pursue with Martha here, though, this notion that Tony raised a moment ago, which is that when the victory announcement came, there was a flag on the stage in Winnipeg, but it was the Palestinian flag, not a Canadian flag. And issues of the war in the Middle East and issues of Israel-Palest, have really roiled New Democrats over the last many years to the point where I think it's fair to say Bob Ray, a former Ontario New Democratic Party Premier, left the NDP because he couldn't take what he was

seeing as so much anti-Israeli bordering on anti-Semitic behavior within the New Democratic Party. Martha, I guess I want you to comment on whether Avi Lewis, a Jewish Canadian, who is absolutely against the Netanyahu government, as many Jewish Canadians are, but also seems to be very anti-Israel and many other aspects of his positions as well, has a shot in hell of getting any Jewish votes in the next election or fundraising in the Jewish community or any of that stuff, which both other parties are, you know, those are communities that the other parties are quite interested in approaching. One of the things that makes me proud to be Canadian, although I think it's going in a direction that is not a good one in my view over the last little while, is a really strong insistence on it's not your religion, it's not what you look like, it's not your gender, it's who are you as an individual? and that's how I was brought up that I felt very strongly about that. And I have seen over the last 10, 20 years,

an increased focus on, you know, who are you? And do you have the background or the ethnicity to be able to speak to this issue or that issue? Or are you, you know, I struggle with that. And I really struggle with, and I know so many of our mutual Jewish. friends who are extremely frustrated with Netanya who extremely frustrated with the government of Israel but it is not the same thing as being Jewish and that's very challenging when people cross that line of they're very upset at what Israel is doing and translate that into being anti-Jewish I can be very anti-Israeli government right now but that does not mean for a minute

that I'm anti-Semitic. And I think that's a difference. There's lots of Israelis who are against the Netanyahu government. 100%. 100%. Which is exactly my point, Steve. And so I just think we really need to remember that. For sure, it's going to put Mr. Lewis in a tough spot because there are an awful lot of people

who do conflate the two. And I just think it's going to be his job to keep reminding people your views about a particular government are not necessarily indicative of your views about somebody's religion, even your own. Look, I, how many Americans do I know who have expressed serious concern about their government? It doesn't translate into, but are you Christian or are you Jewish? It's just like, I'm really sorry about my government. It doesn't mean that their American is, they're being American is challenged. So I just hope that we can make sure that we continue to insist on that difference.

Tony, want to come in on that? Yeah, I mean, I think that the NDP and its new leader have to ensure that the extra-parliamentary party, if I can use that term, is more than just a collection of activists. with particular causes. It's got to be, it's got to be again a political party. I mean, if they want to be a bunch of activists, fill your boat, wave the flag, you know, denounce Netanyahu, denounce the war in Iran. You can do all those things, I guess. But that doesn't make you a political party. A political party is a group of individuals at the individual riding level that want to win elections. That's the purpose of a political party. And you do that through platforms and policies, but you also do that through channeling your activism to the common goal of winning more seats.

And if that isn't what you're into and you're in the NDP, why are you in the NDP? I'm sorry, you can pursue your activism a million other ways. But if you're in the NDP, you have to start winning writings. And I'm not, I guess, if I were Avi Lewis, I'd be concerned that the most NEP peers don't want to do that because they certainly haven't acted that way, at least in what I've seen. So, yeah, he's got to turn that ship around. I think Kathleen mentioned that at the outset, that, you know, he's got a job to do internally, build up the riding associations,

fundraise, do the things that political parties do. And it may not be as exciting as waving a flag in front of the U.S. consulate. But I think if you want to, to win elections and actually have an impact on policy and the future of the country, that you've got to exercise some discipline. And I would say that of my conservative friends as well. You don't have to say that to liberals because they don't really have any policies except for what the leader says. And then they twist around one minute there for the carbon tax, another minute there again. Anyway, that's for another discussion. But you know what I'm talking about, Kathleen.

We actually belong to parties of principle. This is something that new Democrats in conservatives tend to agree on. I have to admit. Yes, they're disaffection for the liberals. But Kathleen, let me get you to speak to this tightrope that Avi Lewis has to walk. On the one hand, you know, presumably he would like to get some votes out of the Jewish community in this country. There are a bunch of writings in this country where the Jewish vote can make a difference and in fundraising as well. But on the other hand, you know, he hasn't been shy in saying that in his view, there's genocide going on in Gaza, which will not endear him to many in the Jewish community, although I hasten to add, some in the Jewish community would agree with that.

Correct. Correct. But it is a, I mean, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's a mixed bag he's got to figure out his way out of here. How does he do that? Yeah, I mean, I think that Mr. Lewis is keen to make life better for Canadians. And that will require for him to get into power and into parliament to do so. So I think he's going to try to not get distracted. by some of these issues. You know, I mean, I don't want this conversation to devolve into a question about what has been happening in the Middle East. But, you know, it is important to note that Stephen Lewis himself in his final year of living, you know, showed up with his Walker at a protest. Yes, he did. To ensure that, you know, people knew and he wanted parliamentarians to acknowledge the genocide that was happening, you know, in Gaza.

And so I don't think that that's going to be a front burner issue though for Mr. Lewis. The work that he has in front of him is so enormous, internally and externally. So, you know, all the things that we've already talked about, including getting some internal discipline, just in terms of

looking at from a political perspective of who he fires and who he hires, who he's going to surround himself with, you know, leadership campaigns, and you know this Steve so well that they're very divisive things for a party, right? And when we look at the votes,

and while certainly Mr. Lewis won commanding first ballot victory, there were substantial parts of the party that voted for other visions. And the West is particularly one. And so I think he's got to unify that. I want to see who he appoints as parliamentary leader. That is going to be critical. Will he stay with Don Davies?

Will he choose someone else? Leighazan was the only MP that actually endorsed him. Will he choose Ms. Gazan to be that leader? What does he do first? Is it just traveling around the country? Is it dealing with the books? The books are a big issue. Well, I got one for you here.

I got one for you. I mean, it won't be long before he'll have to make a decision. Around beaches. Assuming is a lot, exactly. And now a message from Bruce Power. Ontario stands at a pivotal moment in its energy and industrial evolution. Billions are being invested in nuclear refurbishment and new electrical builds. creating a once-in-a-generation opportunity to transform our energy and manufacturing base into a global powerhouse.

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if member of parliament, Nader's and Smith, wins the liberal nomination to run provincially in Scarborough Southwest, which ironically enough is part of Stephen Lewis's old seat, that opens up a federal seat in Beaches, East York. Should Avi Lewis contest that seat? I would think that he's got to consider it deeply. He has said clearly that getting into parliament is not a top priority for him. He wants to tour the country, rebuild the EDAs,

and arguably you could say, because it looks like Mr. Carney Wilkins get his majority by stealth. He might have some more time to do that to be outside of parliament. But I agree with you, Steve Beaches. That is a winnable, technically a winnable NDPC did switch back and forth.

The Toronto elite would rather rally behind him. He could get the funding needed. We certainly won it in the past, both on a provincial and on a federal level. So it's doable. Mr. Lewis lived in Toronto, albeit in Parkdale High Park area, for many years of his life.

So it seems doable. And so if he chooses not to contest it, you'd want to ask why. But he also doesn't have a lot of options not to win. If he runs, he's already run twice, as you know, on the West Coast and lost both on the island and in Vancouver. And so if he runs a third time, you know, in politics we like to say,

ooh, you know, I mean, you can try for a force. fourth and a fifth, but it's not a great look, you know, especially if you're the leader of a party. So I do think the Nate Erskine Smith choice is going to be a tough one. And it will obviously happen quite soon. Yep. Tony, if you were advising him, would you tell him to go for the beach if it opens up? No, I think it's too soon. I think that would be a mistake. He's got to get a lot more ducks lined up. And I don't see the urgency of him trying to enter parliament at the first opportunity. Steve, I'm a bit of a romantic, as you know.

And so I, you know, I kind of like the historical aspect. Like his grandfather represented York Southwestern. Okay? Yes. I don't know what that's the other side of the city. Yeah. I don't know what that's called. Now, is it still called York Southwest?

No, I don't know. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So I'd run there. You know, I just like the. That's a hard seat. I know.

It's been. It's a liberal for new Democrats to win. Oh, come on. But I think, for an NDP or to win. I canvassed in that writing in the last election. I would say that a lot of those liberal votes are just liberal historically because I haven't really had a much of another choice.

So anyway, that's just me. You know, don't listen to me, Avi, for sure. But that'd be kind of neat. Did I ever tell you the story about how I almost became a new Democrat? Matt? Because I, I live...

What? Yeah, when I was 12 years old, I was 12 to 14. I was living in New York, Southwestern. And my mom just got divorced. We moved out of Hamilton. We moved into an apartment building on Marley Avenue. And my best friend, whose first name was Vern. Vern Freelander, I know him. Yeah. So Vern said to me, hey, there's this thing going on. There's a barbecue with David Lewis. He's the MP. Would you like to come out to the with me. And I, I kind of thought about it. And I thought, nah, not my thing. Vern, you go ahead. And he did. But I always wonder, Steve. And I always wonder, Kathleen. You know, if I had gone to that barbecue, if you had gone to that barbecue, would I be a fire brand new, new Democrat for the rest of my life?

You can still see the light, Tony. Come on over. Come on over to light. Do good for me. too late, Tony. Oh boy. Okay. Talk about the road not taken. The Insurance Brokers Association of Canada is all about protection. This spring, they will be in Ottawa to advocate for a consumer-first approach to federal initiatives around natural disasters, cybersecurity, and other risks that Canadians face every day. Insurance protects families, homes, and businesses when the unexpected happens.

brokers are your trusted advisors, helping you choose the right insurance to safeguard what you value most. Canada's insurance brokers. Their slogan is, we know what's worth protecting. All right, Martha, let me get you in on this. What's your advice, Avi Lewis? If the beach opens up, should he run there? Well, I should not be anyone to be giving Avi Lewis advice, but I agree with Tony. I think it would be too soon.

And Kathleen, yeah, three times, that would not be a good good. look. I don't know. Devenbaker lost four or five before he won the party leadership. This is true. I was actually going to vote the Devenbaker example. But I would also take exception,

Kathleen, you did a pretty blanket statement saying the Toronto elite will be behind him. I don't think so. Especially not with Mark Carney now. So I don't think Beaches would be a slam dunk at all. And so I think

he has a really big rebuild building job to do. And I think it probably would make sense for him to do that. And wait. I don't know about where he should run. I'm not as romantic as Tony is on that. I think being pragmatic is probably more important for Mr. Lewis right now. But I think it might be too early to run at this point. Gotcha. Okay, folks, you know we like to do this little tradition here when we get all get ourselves all together here. And that is a little segment we call Good On You, where we take a look at something that happened over the last couple of weeks in public life. And despite all the death and destruction, we say, hey, that was neat. Good on you. Tony, get us started.

Who gets your good on you this week? I'm completely flummox because I was going to talk about Stephen Lewis. And we've already done that. So I think I'm going to pass for this week. You've already talked about my good on you. All right. Fair enough. Martha Hall-Finley. How about you? My Good On You is, in fact for somebody who isn't necessarily in public life, but who has stepped up in the public for the sake of the country. And that's Nancy Southern, the CEO of

VATCO. There was a long piece in the report on business in the Globe of Mail this past week highlighting her very public engagement for the country or the unity of the country. We don't see nearly enough corporate leaders getting up and engaging

in public and we need them. to be engaged in whether you call it public life or public engagement, public discourse. Look, it's not easy. Another person I give a shout out to on a regular basis is Dave McKay, who's the CEO of Royal Bank of Canada, RBC. He gets out and speaks about issues on a regular basis, and sometimes it's been very difficult for him. People don't respond necessarily very kindly to some of the positions, but it shows a

tremendous amount of passion for the country. And in fact, extra because you are taking a bit of a risk in the corporate world coming out and taking positions. And I think Nancy Southern is doing a fantastic job. And it was a wonderful piece. If any of the listeners haven't read it, it is in the report of business in the globe. It's a great profile of somebody I think is a great Canadian.

Great. Thanks for that, Martha. Kathleen, who gets your good on you? Okay. was first time podcast joiner. I'm going to take the liberties of stealing Tonys to take two good on you. And so

my first one is quasi-political. You know, good on you to Prime Minister Carney, who finally actually committed yesterday and dropping $3.8 billion on nature. I think that was a good move. The idea that we can have 30% of Canada's lands protected

by 2030. There's only 14% now. So that's a pretty jump. 16% more of Canada's lands will be protected, you know, land, water. It's exciting for those of us who love the birds, who love the trees and want clean, fresh water to swim, you know, fish and drink. But my second and probably more postpartisan good on you has got to go to Jeremy Hanson, right? You know, our Canada's astronaut who's going to go up in Artemis, maybe today,

maybe the next few days, we'll see when the weather allows, or I'm not sure exactly when it's scheduled. But, you know, I wouldn't put it past us a year ago with all the threats from Trump that it's not out of the realm of craziness that Trump might have just said, yank the Canadian. So for the one Canadian that is embedded and is in fact leading this amazing trip to space, good on you, Jeremy Hansen.

I'll be watching probably even more than the soccer stuff. I'll be watching more of the space stuff. And I'm really excited to see that launch. I'm a real space nut too. I got to say, I'm totally psyched by this. I am excited to go back to the moon as humanity, as a way station to get to Mars so we can start terraforming it. Anyway, that was a bit of a joke.

But certainly I think humanity does have to reach for the stars. And so I'm really excited about this mission for sure. Nicely put. And Kathleen, for a Pacon podcast rookie, those were two really good, good on you. So well done. Thanks. Now, we got to do a little housekeeping here before we leave. Namely, we love to thank the people who join us on Patreon to offer their support to our little venture here.

So thanks to Michael Calder and Robert Baum. Bob Baum has been a pal of my dad's for probably 70 years and he decided to help us out. So that's great. Teresa Castongay, Lori Tucker, Rick Monroe, who lives on Howe Island, Howe Island, off the coast of Kingston and Ontario. Rick, thanks to you. And how about this? Mari Isigai, she contributed at the highest level possible. And she approached me at a recent showing of a TVO show that I host called TVO Today Live. And she introduced herself and she said, you know what, I'm an immigrant to this country. I watched you and I watched TVO growing up.

I learned English thanks to you. She works in the Ontario Public Service right now, I think in the Ministry of Colleges and Universities, and she's just been a great success and a wonderful addition to Canada. So, Mari, thanks so much for your contribution to our efforts here as well. We remind folks that we've got web-exclusive content at patreon.com forward slash the Paken podcast. You can pitch show ideas, guest ideas, and we will respond to all of them. All of our shows are archived at the website,

Stevepakin.com. We thank you for joining us. Peace and love, everybody. Until next time. Peace and love.