The Paikin Podcast - Everything Political: Separatism, Premiers and Pancakes

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

In the debut episode of Everything Political, Tony Clement, Martha Hall Findlay, and Steve Paikin discuss Danielle Smith and Alberta’s “Brexit Moment,” the premiers meeting in Huntsville and their continuing response to Trump’s tariff threats and Prime Minister Mark Carney’s performance nearly three months since the federal election. Follow The Paikin Podcast: TWITTERx.com/ThePaikinPodINSTAGRAMinstagram.com/thepaikinpodcastBLUESKYbsky.app/profile/thepaikinpodcast.bsky.social

Well, look at this handsome assemblage here today. Martha, where are we finding you today? On one of the 30,000 islands in Georgia Bay, even though I live in Calgary, this is where we congregate six or seven generations worth off the grid, but little known fact, also in Tony Clement's former riding. Ah, that is right. Okay, Tony Clement, are you in your former riding? I am in my former riding. I live in Port Sydney, Muscoa, Ontario, Canada. Who's guitar is that over your shoulder?

That is an Eddie Van Halen Fender guitar. Did he actually play it? No, no, he manufactured guitars. So that's one of his... And what's so exciting about it, Steve, and Martha, is that it has a drop D feature. So if you're a guitar nerd, I mean, whoa. That's totally exciting.

I'm overwhelmed with excitement about the news of that. Martha, did we get you out from the middle of a paddle? You look like you... Based on the background, you look like he had a lot going on there. I have an array. Well, I am on an island. So, you know, if all else happens, I may need to escape. And so at least I have my, you know, a couple of canoes and I have the wherewithal to get off the island. Always a good thing when you're on an island. Well, you know, if you're on Georgian Bay, which is just to the east of me, because I'm on the North Channel of Manitoulan Island, I'm just going to look out the window and wave at you, okay? You want to wave back? I will wave back. There we go. Okay. That's perfect. Guys, we could do this forever, but I think it's time we started talking.

talking about everything political. Everything Political, presented by the Canadian Bankers Association. Well, here we are. This is kind of, well, what do we say? It's kind of fabulous. This is our first ever episode. And I think as a result, we should take a little bit of time here off the top and just introduce you to a little more, to our viewers and listeners who may be tuning into the Paken podcast and the everything political version of it, as we are going to attempt to do every other week. Let's start.

Tony Clement, you were the member of parliament for Perry Sound Mascoka from 2006 to 2019, and you were very fortunate to have been in government, in Stephen Harper's cabinet, with three different jobs. You were health minister, industry minister, and president of the Treasury Board. So let's start by finding out which of those three jobs you like the most and why. And I had a fourth department, too.

Oh, what was that? I was the Minister of the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario. I can't forget that. Now, does that count or was that just an add-on to something else? Well, I mean, in some ministries, it's been a separate department. And it's part of the Ministry or the Department of Industry. But when I was Minister of Health, I still had that portfolio. Okay, since we're all in Northern Ontario right now, we can vouch for the fact.

that that's an important portfolio. I'm in the southern tip of northern Ontario. That's what I can. You sure are. You sure are. Which of your four portfolios did you like the most and why? Industry was great. You've got soup to nuts.

You've got digital strategies. You've got, I helped save the auto sector during the 2008 crash. So you've got manufacturing. You've got pharmaceutical, all of those things. are in your remit as industry minister. Health was tougher for me because I was a provincial health minister in the Paris-Eves era in Ontario. And, you know, the levers that you have federally

to actually create change are a lot less than I would say in the provincial era. Yeah, you had more impact in the provincial area for sure. Yeah, and then there's Treasury Board where my job, Tony, I didn't say he could go through all of them. I said pick one. Okay. Well, I just want to say one thing about Treasury Board because Harper gave me the responsibility to cut, cut, cut, uh, wherever I could. And so that was not a very popular position to be in. Yeah. And you being an evil Tory, you just loved cutting all the time, right?

All the time. All the time. I could tell. I could tell. Okay. Martha L. Finley, you unlike Tony, we're not lucky enough to have been on the governing side of the House of Commons. you were in opposition as the member for Willowdale. I'm trying to remember 2008 to 2011 from that Midtown Toronto riding. Even though you weren't in government and you weren't in Cabinet, I'm sure you had some highlights. What was the highlight of your time in Parliament? Well, I think the highlight might have been had I actually been in government in cabinet.

Tony will be the first to tell you it's a lot more fun than being in the shadow cabinet. We've both done that, but he's been lucky enough. He was lucky enough to certainly be in government. And I have to say it's really sad because every once in a while I'll get introduced as a former minister. And then I have to tell the assembled crowd, oh, no, you have to be a government to be one of those and, you know, never, never thus. But I actually loved it. And I will say for anybody listening, you hear so many people say, oh, politics must be awful. You know, I would never go into politics.

I don't know but you, Tony, but I have never met anybody who has said, gee, I wished I'd never run for office, right? Like it, it's not perfect. No job is perfect. It has certain challenges, but I love being there. I love being, I think less the shadow portfolios that I was responsible for so international trade was really great, because that was the fit more with my background. Certainly, Tony mentioned the auto sector. I served on the subcommittee of industry dealing specifically with the auto sector bailout. That was fascinating. And it was fascinating because we really couldn't do anything in Canada on our own without waiting to see what the Americans did. And when Obama ultimately did the bailout, we had no choice.

Really, really interesting. But I think what I really like, Steve, was working on committees. I don't know that there is productive now as even they were then. But the committee work, my sense was that we really tried to get things done. And so regardless of what specific portfolio you were in, if I was on the final, Finance Committee, which I was on for my whole time there, International Trade, there were some really interesting challenges. And I really love being a part of it. And I love getting to know colleagues.

Same, Tony. You know, I know we both ended up with friends from the different parties. So it was really great. Okay. Now that we know you two so much better, let's dive into the subject of the week. The first of which is Danielle Smith, the Premier of Alberta. You both saw the interview that I did with her earlier this week in Calgary. Tony, she's your fellow conservative, so let's go to you first.

You saw it. What did you think? I was totally impressed, Steve. I thought that she handled herself with poise and just the ability to communicate. You mentioned Conrad Black saying she's the best communicator amongst premiers or politicians in the country. And certainly she made her mark, in my view, on the program, where she took very potentially incendiary issues, Alberta separation, Donald Trump and how to handle Donald Trump and the tariff situation. And very commonsensically, very almost melodically answered those questions. And I felt greater at ease knowing those were the answers that she was pursuing.

So, yeah, I thought it was an impressive performance. So generally, that's what I took away from it. Apart from some of the substance, certainly the way she was communicating, I think, was quite impressive as well. Martha, your fellow, Albertan, what say you? Well, I've had the benefit of getting to know her reasonably well over the years. I mean, I appeared on a radio show a few times. I've, in turn, and we've laughed about it in more recent years, I've hosted or interviewed her with the so-called fireside chats in front of audiences. I have to say one of the things I love is that she comes across as a person, a great laugh, right?

Very personable, which is really helpful when you're wanting to be a communicator. And Tony and Conrad Black both completely agree with you. She's a fantastic communicator. What I've come to know about her, too, over the years, she really knows her files, right? she really knows her files, not to be disparaging of anybody in her current cabinet or anyone else. I'll just say that over the years of being in politics, I have come across ministers who didn't know their own files nearly as well as she knows all of the files. And that shows. I think, Tony, when you're saying the way she answers, she inspires some confidence in her answers simply because she clearly knows what she's talking about, whether you ultimately agree with.

some of her positions or not, I don't agree with all that she has done. She certainly interviews very, very well, and it's hard not to be impressed. People repeatedly spend time with her and come away going, wow, she's better than the headlines made me think she was going to be. Okay. Having said that, though, let's talk about perhaps the most controversial thing her government's involved with right now, and that is she is about to cross her province, travel all over the place, chairing this task force that is going to look into issue. surrounding Alberta's sovereignty. And, you know, I put this question to her, Tony, about the notion that David Cameron, when he was the U.K. Prime Minister, thought that he was dealing with those forces in his caucus that wanted Britain out of Europe. And he thought, well, I'll just do

this little referendum, and I'm sure it'll go my way and we won't have to worry about it after that. And he totally lost control of it. How concerned are you that she has, in some respects, you know, loosed the forces of separatism in her own province by creating this commission? Well, I mean, she's, she made the point on your show that those forces were already there. Now, it's a question of how marginalized or how mainstream they are, but I would put it to you that after the results of the last federal election, there was going to be some reaction by Albertans to the fact that they were shut out, effectively shut out of the government of Canada yet again. So I think that that was kind of natural and was going to happen. And so what she's trying to do, I understand, is provide an outlet for that. I think she was pretty clear on your program.

She doesn't want Alberta to separate. She wants a better deal for Alberta. But these things can, you can lose control of these things. Absolutely. But you can lose control at the front of the parade or you can lose control at the end of the parade. So I think she's banking on that. And the other thing I think that she's banking on is that. her position about Alberta's sovereignty is a perfectly reasonable and tenable position.

It's basically the position of the province of Quebec since 1867. So that in itself should not be alarming to people that an Alberta Premier wants the levers of sovereignty that go along with being a province in Canada's confederation. So I took some comfort from that. Martha? Your example of David Cameron is very, is very concerning, for sure. But I do, I think she made it clear that's not her preferred direction. She does have a constituency that she knows she has to listen to

and she knows she has to be seen to be paying attention to. It gets worth recognizing that, and it has, this isn't brand new. There has been an element of that for a long time. but it comes and goes, partly because of what happens in Ottawa. And I can say, you know, there are a small, a relatively small number of people who would actually sign a referendum to separate. The concern that is out there now is that there's a very large number of Albertans who understand why they want to separate.

They may not want to separate themselves, but they understand. People are really angry. And she said it herself, people are much more angry at what, has happened from Ottawa in the last 10 years, then anger at Canada. People aren't angry at Canada or Canadian. So there's not a what we don't want to be Canadian. There's very much an element of we, we want to have a government in Ottawa that that really stops preventing Alberta

from achieving the prosperity that it can. And she mentioned respect. I think people have said Quebec is different because it's cultural and Alberta's more economic. you know, Blanchet made some crack about, you know, it's oil and gas doesn't make a culture. I'm sorry, but respect is actually a very common theme for both Quebec in Alberta. And I think the opportunity, and I prefer to be the optimist, and she made the point as well, the opportunity is with Mark Carney right now.

And people are cautiously optimistic. And she made it very clear, but we need to see things happen. And again, as she's a good communicator, she did it calmly. She didn't do it with anger. She did it with, but these are the things that are of real concern to Albertans. Yeah, I would just add, I thought that she handled that sequence very well with Steve, Martha, that she, when asked about the Carney government, she didn't draw out her dagger and start the stabbing motions. She said, no, we're going to have to wait and see.

Yeah, he's saying some interesting. and good things, but we have to see the results of that. And I think that's a perfectly, again, reasonable position to take. Yeah. And I think if I can jump in, Steve, too, she didn't mention that in your interview, but she has mentioned it a couple of times publicly. This whole, you know, we're Canada, and she did say that. I'm Canadian.

I want us to be on Team Canada. She has gone out of her way to say very positive things about Doug Ford. You included the visuals with Doug Ford, but she's also. He also praised Wob Canoe of Manitoba by saying in particular a great line that he came out with a little while ago that it's the economic horse that pulls the social cart. And she repeated that, not necessarily quoting Premier Canoe, but the concept of the whole country actually needs to start better understanding the importance of economics so that we can actually have the societal prosperity that we want as well. And reminding everybody, Wob Canoe, of course, is a new Democrat. So when you hear a conservative praising a new Democrat like that, you pay attention a bit. I must say one of the things that I guess threw me a little bit was when I asked her,

who's your favorite prime minister of all time? And her answer was Margaret Thatcher. I love that. Now, Martha, how does that play in Alberta? I'm sure you do, Tony. I know. But Martha, how does that play either in Alberta or the rest of Canada? Oh, I think she, I think, as she does, she did it with a bit of a smile.

And then what I really appreciated was she talked about some of the important prime ministers, plural, that we've had in Canada and some of the important things that have been done. You know, I often say, I think for me, the two most effective best prime ministers we've had in Canada in the recent age have been Brian Mulroney and Jean-Cretien. And I love the fact that they are both from different parties. I think that's something that's really important. So she did it with a little bit of a smile. she did acknowledge she was a Margaret Thatcher fan, but I think she then followed through on her answers very nicely. Tony?

Yeah, no, that one was very interesting too, and I almost cursed myself that I wish I'd thought of that first, you know, as a great answer, being a big Thatcher fan myself. But, no, I thought that answer and the subsequent answer about Canadian leaders and Prime Minister, was very authentic. That's the thing that came across to me was she wasn't answering from a rote script that some staffer had provided her.

If they asked this, then you've got to say this. No, this is what she was thinking and feeling. And that's what people relate to nowadays and is part of her charm, I'd have to say. Well, there was that crack from I. Francois Blanchet, the Black Quebecois leader, about the fact that, you know, oil and gas do not a culture make. But I notice, and she answered about Stampede, I noticed that a couple of people I know went to Stampede. I don't know if you can see that.

There we go. There we are. A couple of people I know went to Stampede. And for some reason, that's a two shot instead of a three shot. Why didn't I get invited, guys? What happened there? You got to go, man. You got to be there.

I got to tell you, Steve, it is the greatest festival in Canada every year, bar none. and it's good for it's good for entertainment it's good for business and it's good for politics it has it all and i talked to you tony after it was over and you could barely speak you had laryngitis so bad he was it larynxed for 10 straight days was laryngitis well i can assure you but no no it's talking for 10 straight days i mean martha and i kept bumping into one another like three or four times i think but so there's a little bit of that but it really is um it it's just a very great and atmosphere. But I got business done. I got politics done. And I got a little bit of entertainment as well. So for me, that's what the stampede is. I didn't actually, this time,

this year was the first year. This was my 10th year going. But I think this was the first year. I actually didn't go to an actual stampede rodeo event. Didn't have to definitely if it's your first or third or fifth time go. But for me, it was all the other stuff going on. And these pancake breakfast every morning, you know, riding associations, political parties, but also community associations, the local Gurdwara, Sikh Temple has its own pancake breakfast and everybody. Everybody, the thing about it, Steve, is you put on a cowboy hat, you're in. You're part of that community. Well, I don't know about that. Martha, the prime minister tried to flip a bunch of pancakes with a cowboy hat and a suit on, and I'm not sure he made the sale. What do you think?

I think I would like to give Albertans, Calgarians, a little more credit that that's not going to make or break, you know, their view of a prime minister. I think a certain other prime minister showed up with the hat on the wrong way and that made for some laughs, but there's still an awful lot of respect for that particular prime minister. One thing that did resonate for me with her comment about culture, and it's a lot more than oil and gas and stampede, right? There's a tremendous agricultural community in Alberta, ranching and agricultural crops. But I've lived there for 12 years, I think, now. And I, having grown up in Ontario, when I moved out there, people often said, well, why did you move there? Why, what do you like about it? Do you like that frontier mentality and, you know, get it done attitude?

And I said, well, I do. But frankly, those are a little bit cliche. I, you know, let's not, let's not overwork them. But the one thing I did realize, and she alluded to this in a slightly different way, when I started coming out to Calgary more often, it took me, it took me a bit to realize what was happening. But then I realized no one had asked me who my parents were. No one asked me where I went to school.

It was all welcome. What can we do? And that's the best way I have to describe what she, I think, was alluding to. in terms of the culture in Alberta as well. Fascinating. Guys, I have to do something now that I have never in my career done before. And that is, you know, this is very different from public television where I've spent the last 40 years. This is free enterprise podcasting, right?

And one of the things that we do in free enterprise podcasting is trying to find people who are prepared to support what we are doing. And we are delighted to say that the Canadian Bankers Association, even before we launched our very first show, we're prepared to sign on the dotted line and say, we kind of like what you're about to undertake. So we're happy to support. And to that end, I'm going to tell you a little bit about the bankers right now. Because there's lots of talk of nation building these days, infrastructure and clean energy and innovation. And it looks like Canada is ready to take some big swings out there. Of course, to do that, you've got to have capital, a ton of capital.

and a banking system that can handle that kind of mission. Canada is fortunate to have a banking system that doesn't just keep up, it leads. And that's why on this episode of Everything Political on the Paken podcast, we are happy to partner with the Canadian Bankers Association. Canada's banks are not just watching from the sidelines. They are helping move the country forward. That means backing entrepreneurs, supporting major projects, and working with Canadians to build a stronger financial future.

They help grow small businesses into larger ones, They support families buying their first homes and invest in the infrastructure Canada needs to compete and prosper. Whether it's a neighborhood cafe or a multi-billion dollar project, Canada's banks are there to help turn big ideas into real results. And if you want more information about what Canada's banks are up to, visit this website. CBA.ca.ca forward slash prosperity. That's cba.c.a.orgia forward slash prosperity. Okay, that's my first ad. Well done.

Well done. I love it. And isn't it awesome that the CBA is keen to support? Yeah, they're a great group. I think it's wonderful. Great, great folks. Okay, I want to talk to you two about where you two are right now. And that is Muscoca, because you're going to be at the center of the political universe as far as Canada is concerned.

Because next week, the premiers, in a name that only Starfleet command can appreciate, the Council of the Federation, are coming to Muscoca for one of their big meetings. This is Tony, your old writing, and Martha, it's very close to where you are right now. Here's the thing I suspect everybody's thinking about these Council of the Federation meetings, live long and prosper everybody. Tony, I don't know if you've been to these things before. Does anything really get done? What do these things accomplish? You know, I think that before it was the one I went to, I went to a couple of them.

One was in Victoria, B.C. I remember accompanying with Mike Harris because I was health minister, and they were talking about health. And a lot of these used to be about, okay, how can we gang up on the federal government and demand more money for health care or community services or whatever, right? And so it took on the role of a strategy session on how to squeeze the rock a little bit more. I think we're in different times now, however. I think right now, these are genuinely important meetings of our provincial and territorial leaders and now our prime minister on the Tuesday to continue to work together to deal with the tariff threat, the sovereignty threat, and, you know, everything else that's going on not only in vis-à-vis the United States, but our relationship with Europe are the threats, from Russia. There's all these other opportunities to discuss those things. By the way, of course, the venue for this is Deerhurst Resort, which is about 25 minutes away from me,

and where I was the local host for the G8 summit in 2010. At that time, Russia was a member of the G8 until 2014 when they invaded Crimea. And so I got to see summitry firsthand in my backyard at Deer's. So I think it's going to be an important session very clearly having the Prime Minister of Canada there. Steve, you tell me, has a Council of the Federation done that before? I don't, I know there's been federal prevention. Not to my knowledge. It's a Premier's meeting. It's a Premier's meeting. And then to invite the Prime Minister, not usually or ever done. And so I think that that illustrates the importance of the issues that are affecting this country right now and how everybody has to work together.

Martha, what do you hope emerges from this? Well, to completely agree with Tony, that the world has changed. And I think, you know, I hesitate to say thanks to Donald Trump in the same sentence. But there's an awful lot of work for us to do in Canada to really improve our economic situation, not just because of Donald Trump. To be clear, we have tariff concerns. He's completely volatile. But what has happened is that there's been a great recognition among Canadians and Canadian politicians that, you know, we've been talking about productivity for decades.

It's actually really bad now. We've been talking about inter-provincial trade barriers for decades. The cost to this economy is very high. What we're finally doing, I think, in this country is we're having these conversations. about what we need to do for our own economic prosperity, which, of course, is required for social prosperity, not just because of Donald Trump, but because we our own economies not doing well.

And so we, yes, we can diversify some of our trade. We can increase trade with other countries. We're always going to be dependent on the United States. You can't change geography. But we also have things we can do internally. And if I use internal trade as internal trade barriers as one example, You hear every once in a while premiers getting up and saying, sure, we'll just mutually recognize everything from somebody else.

And credit to Jason Kenney, Premier Smith's predecessor, who actually did undertake some unilateral. We're just going to get rid of some of these barriers. The problem is, is data, like for those of us have worked a lot on this file. You can't just mutually recognize everyone else's regulations because, and if I use a theoretical, some of the theoretical, you're not in the mountains.

If you're the Premier of Alberta, British Columbia, you might not necessarily be willing to accept the truck, transport truck braking standards that are in use in Saskatchewan. Nothing against Saskatchewan, except it's just really, really flat.

And so to me, that's a great example. They don't know what regulations the other provinces have. And so they can't just unilateral. do this. So they can make pronouncements, but behind it becomes some really significant political realities. This is an opportunity for the premiers to acknowledge we need to know a whole lot more about each other and what our own rules and regulations are. And because they don't usually have the resources to learn what all the other nine provinces and, of course, three territories, but what the other nine provinces are doing, it is an opportunity for the federal government.

government, Mark Carney is going to be there, an opportunity for the federal government, not to say thou shalt do this. We know that's a problem, but to assist in whatever is required to have the provinces learn, get that, accumulate that data and get that information. We have an opportunity for the provinces to work so much more collaboratively together and to exchange best practices and to really work. And I think there's a political, there's motivation now, which we have not seen in a very long time. Well, that's the key, right, Tony? I mean, there clearly appears to be the will to do it right now. Thanks, yes, in part to Donald Trump. So if the will is there, is there also a way? You got to have both. Yeah. And again, I remain hopeful. I want it to work. I just know how

dang hard it is. You know, as federal minister of health, I worked for two and a half years on what were called tripartite agreements on health care between the federal government, the province, and indigenous groups. And that was a lot of energy, very specific file, and lots of bumps along the way. These things do not happen just because there's goodwill. As Martha indicated, the devil is in the details. The other thing I worry about is state capacity. And this was a problem that was highlighted in the months and years before the last federal election, particularly by Pierre Paulyette, we haven't mentioned him yet, but I'm sure we will in future broadcasts as well, but, you know, about the ability of the government to actually get stuff done when we had

the passport crisis, for instance, my word, you know, we're a G7 nation and people were waiting months for their passports. So this, this is going to be, is going to be a real test for governments to actually get beyond the signing ceremony to the finish line. And I hope it happens. If it doesn't happen, you've heard it here first on the Paken Pound podcast that we're going to, we're going to have some problems here. Well, you've both referenced the fact that there will be one non-premier at this meeting, and that, of course, will be the prime minister. And so I want to get your take on how you feel he's doing so far.

And just by way of setting this up, you know, we do have to remember that it was only about six months ago, that the Liberal Party of Canada was 25 points behind the Conservative Party of Canada. And then, when was it? I guess it was in March that Mark Cardi won the liberal leadership. And then in April, he won a federal election that, of course, nobody a few months earlier,

thought he had any business winning. He went to the Oval Office. He did not get Zelenskyed, which was the big concern while he was meeting with Donald Trump. In fact, they had what seemed like a pretty cordial rapport going between the two of them. But these trade talks with the United States are very, very tough sledding. With all of that background in place, Martha, how's he doing so far? Well, you mentioned a couple of, I think, successes. There's no question he has, over his career, Zolnski,

multiple careers, engendered that kind of national but also international respect that I think an awful lot of Canadians recognized we needed. This was a time to have somebody at the head of the country who had that international respect. People know him and he's a much more known quantity than, for instance, Pierre Poliov, I think internationally at least. And my sense is that that's very much why the election went the way it was. It was Donald Trump really was key in the election result that we ended up having. I think you saw in your interview with Premier Smith some concern about needing to see action. One, let's not put too much hope on whether, you know, what the prime minister can do with Donald Trump because I think every

world leader around the entire world is wondering what the hell to do with Donald Trump. I mean, he's, he's all over the place and he can't be, he can't be trusted. I do like to remind people when they talk about a negotiate a trade agreement. We already have one. It's called, you know, in Canada, Coosma, the American USMCA that includes Canada, United States, and Mexico. It is actually the law of the land. So, you know, I wouldn't, I think it's unfair to expect too much of Mark Carney in terms of the discussions with Donald Trump. That really is a much more broad country to country provinces and states and working with

Americans who were hurt more by tariffs than we are. It's a much broader engagement. I would, I would say that there is very much a concern in Alberta and Saskatchewan. in various parts of the country, we know we need to do significant things from an economic prosperity perspective, as well as the respect piece that has been challenging for the last 10 years. And although we're hearing the right things, as the Premier pointed out, we haven't seen action. The good news is that I know that there are people in the government who are asking, how do we fix the Impact Assessment Act, the infamous C-69?

How do we get interprovincial trade barriers down? How do we? So people are asking the right questions in this government, which says to me they're actively looking at the next steps. But I'll just go back. It's cautious optimism, but it's still a bit cautious. Tony, how's the PM doing? It's early days. So you can't have a definitive conclusion right now.

I'm a bit concerned. He's continually building up expectations. And a lot of it just doesn't, it doesn't connect exactly. So what do I mean by that? So we're going to be a one Canada economy. We're going to reduce and eliminate internal barriers. We're going to get the big projects. done. We passed a bill, Bill C5, to get the big projects done. But don't worry, we still care

about the environment. And I'm going to have a one-day meeting with indigenous leaders because we still care about indigenous groups. Okay. So how does that get a pipe? Tell me again how a pipeline is going to be built when the province of British Columbia doesn't want it or whether there's indigenous leaders who are concerned about it or so on. So there's that. Then there's, we're spending more money than Justin Trudeau for crying out loud. How is that possible? We're spending more money in the federal budget than Justin Trudeau, but don't worry, we've got a spending review that's, I've just started as prime minister. Well, I did the last spending review, the big one for Stephen Harper. I had to review 650 programs with a cabinet committee over a six to eight

month period. And it's not easy, folks, to do it in a way that finds the right things to reduce the federal footprint without doing something that harms people or society or or provinces or what have you. So, yeah, I mean, I'll give him some marks for saying the right things. You know, when he's forlorning Pierre Paulyas policy planks, it's hard for me to disagree. I agree. But I want to see the activity. And moreover, we need it. We need him to be successful. That's the other side of it, which, you know, gets my liver going a little bit. We actually need him to be successful because if he is not, this country is in big, big, big trouble. Economically, the social fabric, politically with separatism, all of these things. And plus the sovereignty issues with the United States and elsewhere, like, Almost we have to have them succeed. So I'm a little bit, as you can tell, a little bit conflicted, but those are the concerns that I have. Gotcha. No, fair comments from both of you. Okay. One of the things that I think the three of us share is a belief in the possibility of politics

and that we are not cynical observers of the political scene in this country. We try not to be anyway. And so I think starting today and going forward, we want to end our discussion by having each of you pick one politician anywhere in Canada that over the past week or two, you thought that was good. Martha, who do you want to pick and why? I ran into an old colleague at Stampede because that's what happens, who is still a member of parliament. We hadn't seen each other in a long time, one of Tony Clements party members, but a great example of friendships that get developed across party lines. And we hadn't seen each other. Hey, how's it going? And then he told me that he has embarked on a thing. And I had, I can't believe I hadn't heard about it. But over the last

few years, it's Zoom Happy Hour. Oh, yeah. So Mike Lake had started Zoom Happy Hour years ago. I think Steve, you might have actually commented on it at one point or another or been a part of it. Martha, I think I've been on 15 of them, maybe more than that. There you go. How did I? Okay, you complaining about how come you didn't get invited to Stampede? It's like, how is it this long that I had not been invited to it? For more of these happy hours.

Yeah. Anyway, for the listeners, the watchers, the per one of the purposes of Zoom happy hour is to, get people with different backgrounds, to get people from different parties, to actually talk about issues, to engage, to have fun in a way that is so completely different from how people see the Canadian public sees Canadian politics being conducted. And frankly, I think the more Canadians know that there are people like Mike Lake out doing these kinds of things and bringing people together as opposed to the other way around. From Good on Mike Lake. Mike Lakes at Edmonton MP. And yeah, he started this during COVID because we were

unable to connect with each other. And so he'd get eight, nine, 10, 11 people together on a Zoom feed. And they were the most wonderful, collegial, fascinating, nonpartisan conversations among people with different backgrounds. And good for Mike. I think they started doing sort of one a week. And now I think he's up to about three a week because they're so popular. How does he have time? Yeah. And people, well, he makes the time because these are important conversations to have. So that's a great choice. Okay, Tony, that's a high bar. What do you got to match that?

Well, I regret to inform you that I didn't read the email properly. And I went outside of Canada for my example. I hope that's not. You're Danielle Smith. That's right. We'll let you get away with it this time. Okay, just this one time. So the one I thought of was involves the British Prime Minister Kier Starmer,

who is, of course, a labor politician, recently concluded. a conference or a summit with the Chancellor of Germany, Mertz, Mertz, I guess. And they have come up with kind of a military strategic entente between the U.K. and Germany. This is all in the wake of Putin and the threat that he poses to the continent of Europe. And I thought to myself, you know, my mother's generation would never have lived to see that day that Germany and the UK are having a military and strategic, you know, outside of NATO. This is just purely bilateral meeting of the minds. It shows you how different we are from 80 years ago, I would say particularly the Germans,

but also the need for that to occur because of the threats and the challenges that are facing the world right now. So I wanted to give kudos to a labor leader, which I don't usually do, Kier Starrmer, and to Chancellor Emerits for pulling that off. I think that's very significant and important for Europe and indeed for the rest of the alliance, including Canada. Let me give you two kudos for the fact that Martha, the Liberal, picked a conservative MP and Tony the conservative picked a labor MP as two people you wanted to put some attention to. So good on you, and they've done some good this past week. Hey, that's our first episode. We're all still speaking to each other, so I think it went okay. And we want to say that every couple of weeks, we're going to be back in your inboxes or on YouTube or wherever people go to find these things so that you can watch everything political with Tony Clement and Martha Hall Finley, presented by the Canadian Bankers Association.

I'm Steve Paken. Until next time. Thanks so much. This would be great. Thank you. Thank you.