The Pat McAfee Show - PMS 2.0 139 - Michael Franzese, Life As A Made Man In The Mafia. Matt Rhule, Glover Quin & MORE

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

On today’s show, Pat and the boys sit down with former Capo of the Colombo crime family, a man who spent a large majority of his life as a made man in the mafia, Michael Franzese. They chat about what it was like growing up in the mob and at what point did he make the decision he was going to get in the life. He chats about the different rackets he had his hands in and what he did to become a major earner for the Colombo crime family. They also cover what kind of involvement the mafia has had in sports gambling and if he recalls any of those situations. Michael also gives his thoughts on The Irishman as he was intimately involved in the situation and was close with many of the people involved in the story, and tells Pat and the guys which mafia movies, in his opinion, are most accurate to the way things really are. He also covers how he is still alive, what his time in prison was like and if he was given any special privileges, what some of his favorite nicknames of associates were, and he dives into how he turned his life around to put himself into the position he is currently in. This is one of the most fascinating and interesting conversations that you’ll ever hear and something you definitely don’t want to miss (2:27-57:23). Later, Head Coach of the Baylor Bears and potential college football coach of the year, Matt Rhule, stops by the show. Pat and Matt cover where his teams’ head is at heading into the Big 12 Championship against Oklahoma, what people should expect to be different about this upcoming game his mentality as a head coach and what he tries to instill in his players, and his relationship with his defensive coordinator, Phil Snow (1:00:55-1:16:26). Also included is a snippet of the conversation between Pat and former Pro Bowler and All-Pro for the Houston Texans and Detroit Lions, Glover Quin. They chat about Glover playing against Peyton Manning and how he had to learn how to disguise his coverage pre-snap because if he didn’t, Peyton would know exactly what he was doing and how to exploit it (1:16:28-1:19:55), and to close out the show, Pat breaks down his candidates for NFL Coach of the Year. Today is a great show, come and laugh with us. Cheers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is already December 5th. Holy hell. The holiday season is upon us. The lady and I watched the lighting of what tree is it? Rockefeller. Rockefeller thing in New York City last night. We're watching it currently right now. Idina Menzel is singing.

She's very good at singing. It's a cool performance. The only reason why I know her is because John Travolta fucked her name up during that award show. It was an award show, though, so she must be good. She won an award. Other than that, today is a good one.

Today is a great conversation. I mean, we talked to a guy who was a badass in the mafia during the golden era of the mafia. It was probably my favorite conversation I've ever had with a human. Before we get to that, though, professionally. Professionally. Because, you know, it sounded like...

No, no, no, no. You know. It was a professional conversation. Because we've had some deep combos. Yeah, yeah, not with you, Sam. No, no. I'm talking about professional conversations. Anyways, pivot away from that terribly awkward situation

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He has changed his life around completely. Now he's a coach and a good one at that. This coming December, this month, he is launching two websites that you can check him out. Ladies and gentlemen, one of the most exciting conversations I've looked forward to in a long time. I heard this man speak when I was in college at West Virginia. We went and heard him talk. We weren't told who was talking to us, and it was an hour long motivational speech. It was captivating. Ladies and gentlemen, joining us now, Michael Franzese.

How are you? Thanks a lot, Pat. I didn't realize that, did I meet you in West Virginia at that time? Oh yeah, I shook your hand. I'm from Pittsburgh where a lot of you Italians roam, so I was excited to chat with you, man. Oh, that's cool, man. Yeah, there's a lot of us down there for sure. Got a couple of them in the room right now. Okay, so let's lead off with your story. You were born and raised in Brooklyn, and you were and basically your dad was a member of the mafia,

if I have that correct. That's correct. My dad was the underboss of the Colombo family back in the 60s. Okay. So I watched The Irishman just yesterday, and I feel like I've gotten refreshed on the entire mafia thing. What was life like growing up with a dad that was an underboss in a mafia family? Well, you know, it wasn't only that he was the underboss, Pat.

For some reason, my dad was probably the highest profile figure of his time. You know, he got a lot of attention. He was constantly under investigation, always a major target of law enforcement. So I grew up around, you know, FBI and law enforcement basically shadowing my father 24-7. So, I mean, I grew up hating the police for that reason because they were always there and I got into many, you know, hassles with them and arguments and so on and so forth. So it was strange. You know, I love my dad. He was a great father. So I always looked at law enforcement at that time as the enemy. So I grew up with that kind of thinking, you know, early on in my life.

And I think if I recall right from your story, you told us at West Virginia, you weren't planning on going into the family business. And then one time you visited your dad in jail and told him basically you were going to get in there to help him get out. Am I accurate in saying that? Yeah, what happened? I mean, I was a pre-med student and I was an athlete. I played ball at Hofstra University. And my dad drew a 50-year prison sentence for allegedly masterminding a nationwide string of bank robberies. He supposedly ordered this whole string of robberies. And at the time, Joe Colombo, you know, was the boss of our family. I got very close with him, met a lot of my dad's friends. And, you know, they told me, what are you doing going to school? If you don't help your father out he's gonna die in prison because he was 50 when he went in so I

go to see him in the visiting room and we're sitting down there in Leavenworth and I said dad you know what's the deal with this bank robbery and he swore up and down he said son I was framed I'm not a bank robber and we got to work to try to get this conviction overturned and that's what just turned my whole head around and I said okay and you know I got to leave school and try to help you out. And that's when he basically proposed me for membership in the family, because he said that if you're going to be on the street, I want you on the street the right way. In his mind, the right way was to become a member of his life. So he proposed me for membership at that point. In jail, you got proposed a membership

of the mafia? Well, when I say proposed, he had to send word downtown you know to the family leadership down there and say i'm proposing my son and at that point in time i sat with uh who was the boss of our family at that time the acting boss tom de bella he's passed on now because you know joe colombo had been shot and seriously wounded at that uh big rally that we had the italian american civil rights day at columbus circle so tom ran it down for me he said know, your father's proposing you for this life. And from now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you're on call to serve the Colombo family. That means if your mother is sick and dying, we call you to service. You leave your mother, you come and serve us. From now on, we're number one in your life before anything and everything.

So at 22 years old, I was recruited at that point point in time and that's when it started for me what are some of the jobs you do as a young guy trying to earn your way into the family just getting into the mafia you know pat basically you got to do what you're told i mean you know look i'm always honest with the audience they say that you know in order to make your bones so to, you know, look, I'm always honest with the audience. They say that, you know, in order to make your bones, so to speak, you know, you've got to be involved in a murder. You've got to kill somebody. And, you know, you're basically on call to do whatever you're told to do. And I had to be in Brooklyn, you know, seven days a week almost. And I was kind of at the beck and call of my boss and my captain at the time.

And, you know, at the same time, I'm an earner, so I'm trying to earn a living, trying to impress them, show them that I can, you know, bring money into the family. So I was kind of doing everything, you know, and then just leading up to the night when I would be called in to, you know, to be formally made. And for me, that happened on Halloween night, 1975. I was made with five other guys at that

time is that like in the movies I think in Goodfellas there's like a candle that's burned and it's in your hand and the whole thing where from now on you're reborn basically you're a made man is that how it goes in real life as well yeah it's a very solemn ceremony you know the way we did it there was six of us that night and it was at Anthony Colbo. Joey's son had a catering hall in Brooklyn. And that's where we held the service because, obviously, you don't want the law around. So it's got to be very covert. And the six of us walked in individually.

The boss was seated at the head of like a horseshoe configuration. The underboss in the consular area, which is an official position, was to his left and right. And all of our capos, the captains, were alongside of them. So I walked down the aisle, stood in front of the boss, held out my hand. He took a knife and cut my finger. Some blood dropped on the floor. This is a blood oath. And then I cupped my hands. He took a picture of a saint, Catholic altar card, put it in my hands and lit it aflame. And it didn't burn a herd. It burned quickly. It was merely symbolic. And he said, tonight, Michael francis you are born again into a new life violate what you would know about this life betray your oath and you'll die and burn in

hell like the saint is running in your hands and he said do you accept and i said yes i do and that's the oath that's how it goes oh my god that what a wild scene that is i'm you gotta i'm sure you at this point can fathom the people from outside looking in in the mafia world it's so intriguing that this existed in america and after watching the irishman by the way you you mafia folks had your hands in everything in the history of america well, you know, we did. And, you know, it's what I tell people is that, you know, we survived and prospered for well over 100 years in this country. And the reason for that is because we infiltrated society, you know, from the guy on the street, the numbers business, right up to the White House and everything in between. I mean, we control the unions.

We had, you know, a lot of politicians that we had strong influence over. And, you know, you control the unions in this country. You basically control the country. And at one point in time, between the Teamsters and, you know, the waiters and bartenders and, you know, and everything at the docks, I mean, we really had it sewn up. So, you know, for a period of time in this country, I always say, Pat, the golden era of the mob in America, and especially in New York, was really from the 50s right through the mid-80s when Giuliani started to go crazy with the racketeering laws. But during that, you know, 40-year period, or 30-year period rather, we really controlled a lot of what was going on in this country. How do you control a union? Yeah, how's that happen? Because we watch Hoffa, we in the Irishman, he got Hoffa in the mob, in the mob, we're getting into it, right? That was ultimately the demise of Hoffa.

How do you control the unions? You just get in top with the president and the people on top of that? Yeah, I mean, you install your people there, you know, and Hoffa to a great degree, he owed a lot of what he had, you know, to two us and by the way let me let me just comment on the Irish man I thought it was a good movie I really did you know those performances right by those guys were always great I thought the team Pacino kind of stole the show but I will tell you this it was total fabrication no Pat! Oh! Oh! No, Pat, Shearhan did not kill Hoffa.

He's been discredited so many times, and I know that for a fact. And he absolutely did not kill Joey Gallo. I mean, that was right in my time, my family, and, you know, I obviously knew what was going on back then. We almost went to war over that. And I was recruited at the time, but I was intimately involved in what was going on there.

And the shooters for Gallo were known. I mean, this guy just made it up. I mean, he absolutely made it up. Aside from that, the movie was good. I mean, how can Scorsese and that cast make a bad film? But I will tell you this. I was really surprised with Pesci's performance because I knew

Russ Buffalino very well. He was very close with our family. I knew him well. And, you know, he did a good job because Russ was that kind of low-key kind of guy.

He wasn't as powerful as they portrayed him to be in the movie, but, you know, it was a good job. And in fact, Tony Salerno, the boss of the Genovese family,

I was pretty close with Tony. We had a couple of, you know it was a good job and fat tony salerno the boss of the genevieve family i was pretty close with tony we had a couple of you know good uh relationships i would say in business and i thought that dominic played him very well too it was good job who was again movie was the fabrication remember that that's heartbreaking i've literally been i just said this morning on my radio show that it felt like i was taking a walk through american history class it turns out it was all bullshit that taking a walk through American history class. Turns out it was all bullshit. That's a little bit upsetting to me. But who was the most powerful person at one particular time, like in the history of the mob, you think? Well, during my era, really the most powerful guy was, you probably know him, Vincent Giganti. They called him the Chin.

He was the real boss of the Genovese family. Tony Salernano was kind of, you know, because Chin would stay very low key and he put on that, you know, crazy act and all of that. Tony kind of ran things. But Chin was really the powerhouse, you know, in 70s, 80s, you know, during my era, for sure. Okay, so he was very powerful. You said earlier that you were an earner. And I remember listening to you tell your story about the gasoline racket that you ran. And I was like, oh, my God, this guy is a genius. How old were you whenever you started becoming like the number one earner for the mob, basically? And can you explain the gasoline racket that you started and how you thought of that idea?

Yeah, basically, I was in my 20s. You know, I was fortunate, Pat, that I had a head for business and I knew how to use that life to benefit me in business. And, you know, just quick thing, I had a lot of legitimate businesses going on. I had two automobile dealerships. I had a leasing company, had a lot of stuff that I had put together. But, you know, the real score, I would call it for me, was the gasoline business. And basically, there was a guy out east in Long Island that had a small gasoline operation. He had a company and two guys from another family were extorting him. They were trying to get involved in his business. So he ran to me. I was kind of the guy on Long Island for help.

And basically, he told me that, you know, he had a germ of an idea on how maybe to defraud the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline. Now, you got to understand, I hated the government at that point. Yeah, yeah. You know, my targets, I was never, my targets were always big. I mean, if I went after anybody financially, I would go after an insurance company, a bank, because they got all the money and they don't feel it. And, of course, the government, right? So this was right up my alley. So I said, all right, we'll try.

Let's see what this is all about. So I got rid of the two guys who were bothering him. I made them go away. I didn't get rid of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to be careful how I talk. Made those guys go away. And so I had this guy around me.

Pat, listen to this. The guy around me, his to this the guy around me his name was Vinnie big guy right and he had a scar across the top of his head he was really a you know a scary looking guy and he was my butcher he's a butcher so every Saturday he would bring me meat right so this particular time I put this Vinnie next to this guy Larry his name was who had the gas operation I said watch this guy let's see if he's really on to something. So about two weeks later, you know, we started a new company, opened up an office. Two weeks later, he comes to me on a Saturday and he's got this box on his shoulder.

So I opened the door and I said, hey, what are you doing with all this meat? What are we having a party? I don't know about it. He said to me, no, chief, it ain't meat. Come in the kitchen. So we go in the kitchen. He puts the box down on a table opens it up and he said this is the first week's take in the gas business was 320 000 hello yeah smelled like gasoline smelled up the whole house i didn't care right but uh you know so he really caught my attention and we grew that 320 over a seven, eight year period to, you know, between eight and ten million dollars a week that we're bringing in. You know, and I had I had over 350 gas stations I owned or operated. And then I had 18 companies that were licensed to collect tax on every gallon of gasoline. So we really had it going on for quite some time.

You know, I recruited the Russians from Brighton Beach. They were my partners. They had a number of unbranded stations at that point. So we had a pretty big operation up and down the East Coast. I assume whenever you're bringing in that much money for the family, you become quite a hot commodity for the mafia, I'd assume. Well, yeah. I mean, you know, when I realized what I had,

I went to see my boss who was called my first go at the time he passed away earlier this year and i said junior i called him junior i said junior i'm gonna show you more money than you ever saw in your life so immediately looked at me so we don't deal with drugs i said junior it's not drugs i hate drugs we didn't do anything with drugs i said it's gas i said but here's what's going to happen as soon as the rest of the families know about it everybody's going to want to get involved. You can't let that happen because we'll blow it. I said, so every time I have an argument, every time somebody tries to get involved with me, I got to win. No politics, no nothing. You got to stand behind me. And if you do that,

I said, I'm going to make you a wealthy guy. Well, at the height of my operation, I'm bringing in $2 million a week into the family. That buys a lot of loyalty, Pat. I mean, 70 years. Yeah, I never lost an argument. I never had, even with Gotti and all these guys that tried to get involved, I never lost because, you know, that's the golden goose at that point. Nobody's going to let that go away.

How did that end up getting stopped? Was that ultimately your demise or did you have to pull out of it because of sketchy situations? No, my partner, the guy that I started with, listen to this, Pat, he was six foot five, 500, almost 500 pounds when he was really heavy. But he always was between 460 and 500 pounds, right? A big guy. And he wasn't a sloppy fat. I mean, he was just a big, solid guy. Anyway, he gets himself in trouble on another case. He gets indicted. And in the middle of his trial, he comes to me. You know, we had a jet plane, a helicopter. We had a compound in Panama. We were actually paying off Noriega at the time. And he says to me, he says, hey, chief, I'm leaving. He says, I'm not going to stay. I'm not going to do time.

Look at me. I'm so big I can't even fit on a cot in prison. So he takes off to Panama. And he's helping run the operation from there. Well, what happens, there was no extradition from Panama at that time to the United States. But you know what happened? The feds went in there in the middle of the night and they kidnapped him. And they brought him back to Florida.

And as soon as they got him here, they said, you know, you're going to spend the rest of your life in prison unless you tell us everything you know about Michael. And he became an informant at that time and kind of blew the whole gas thing up. So I ended up taking a plea to a big case as a result of his cooperating. So the if I recall correctly, you came and spoke at WVU to talk about sports gambling and stuff like that. Did you ever have your hand in that or did you just know of others that were doing that in the mafia world? No, Pat, I had my hand in it because I had a number of bookmakers that were working for me. You know, any bookmaker that can carry a decent bet somehow is going to be involved with us because, you know, they had collection problems, so we helped them collect, obviously. And if they needed money, we would lend it to them.

So bookmakers operated under our control. So I had a bunch of them working for me, and we had a lot of athletes gambling with us at the time. So, you know, I was involved like that. If an athlete couldn't pay or somebody involved with the league couldn't pay, you know, they'd bring them in to me, and we'd work out a situation where they either compromise the outcome of a game or they go get the money someplace and they pay us back. So one way or the other, they had to do it. How often did that happen? And has

all the stories of that happening come out? You know, all the stories do not come out for sure. And I don't want to, I don't want people to think, you know, that every game is fixed when they see something wrong, either with a referee or somebody, you know, doesn't make a good play. But, you know, back in my day, it happened quite often, Pat. It really did. Wow. I mean, you know, you know, athletes had a tendency to gamble and they got themselves in trouble. And, you know, on the pro level today, it's less of a problem because these guys are making so much money, they can cover their bets. You know, it's more restricted to college right now is, you know, as you know, some of these young guys can get themselves in trouble and, and they have no way to pay off a debt, but it happens more than you think. I can tell people

that. As sports gambling has become legal now, and it's getting, do you think that's going to help the problem or hurt the problem more? Quarter uh arizona cardinals there he's on the irs he's not really with the team he just got caught up in a gambling situation it was legal they say uh or it was legal because he went through caesars but do you think this is going to help with that problem or hurt with that problem because guys are going to go elsewhere to gamble you know i think it's going to hurt because you know the more access you have to to gambling and you know athletes have a tendency to gamble you know and i understand that it's kind of a you know an the more access you have to gambling and, you know, athletes have a tendency to gamble. You know, and I understand that it's kind of, you know, an extension of their competitiveness.

You know, I mean, I like to I enjoy watching a game if I have a few bucks on it more. You know, it's just it's natural stuff like that. And then, of course, if you're an athlete, you think, you know, you know, the outcome a little bit better than somebody else, you know, sometimes. But, you know, I think the more access you have the the easier it is for somebody to get hooked on gambling and pat the problem is it's you know it's a silent addiction at you know it's kind of sneaks up on you every guy that i knew that ever had a gambling problem told me they can kick the problem whenever they want and they never could and every single one pat across the board they all believe that it's not a big deal i can stop whenever i want to it's it's not easy trust me i'm it's a very intriguing time in sports with

the legalization of sports gambling because for a long time it was something that was obviously done behind the shadows and illegally and things like that now that it's becoming legal but it's not right i mean it's just going to be a very interesting time for sports to handle the whole situation. How do you think the league should handle it? Well, you know, it's very difficult. I mean, I've been to, this year I've been to a lot more schools because of the Supreme Court decision.

You know, I'm talking to a lot more guys. And I got a pretty good calendar next year with schools. And I keep doing this because I feel like, you know, the guys pay attention. And if you can help one or two guys from getting themselves in trouble it's big because you know one guy can take a program down you know that yeah so um you know you know the league just says it's more education than anything else i mean education and then unfortunately enforcement if somebody does go down the wrong road. But education is important. These people have to, young people have to understand that gambling could be addictive.

And before you know it, you can be in there over your head and there's guys out on the street. Doesn't have to be a mob guy. You know, gamblers themselves. I mean, these are desperate people. Any way they can look to get an edge in any kind of sporting event, they'll do it. And they have to be mindful of that. So they've got to watch the people that they're around, and they've got to understand that through education that this could be a real problem for them. That's what I stress. You've been removed from the mafia.

You turned your life around. You've really become this outstanding citizen, which you can check out at michaelfrancis.com and also wiseguyswisdom.com, which is a new coaching site that's coming out. You've become this incredible citizen, right? Is the mafia still around? And do you ever have any fear with how you've come out and told stories about it?

I've seen enough movies where it seems like if anybody talks about it, they end up as a dead man. You have gone on and told these incredible stories about your life. Does the mafia still exist as much as it did back in the day or at all? And are you ever fearful of your life? Well, let's put it this way. It absolutely does exist. There's still five families in New York. There's still, you know, a big presence in Chicago, Kansas City, places like that. But it's not what it was at one time. It's different. You know, it's not going to go away in my lifetime. That's for sure.

But, you know, Pat, what happened with me, you know, I'm going to be honest with you. You know, number one, I never put anybody in prison. I didn't cooperate with the government in that regard. I played a game with the government where I made them think I was cooperating. But at the end of the day, I didn't cooperate. You know, it was just my way of doing things. And I got in trouble for it. I mean, they put me back in prison as a result when they realized what I was doing. But I never put

anybody in prison. How'd you do that? Well, you know, just making them think. I mean, I talked to them, make them think I was going along. But when they wanted me to testify, I refused. And, you know, it was a whole big rough time in my life, you know. So, I mean, I never hurt anybody in that regard. And, you know, the thing that happened, Pat, everybody that I ran with, everybody is either dead or in prison for the rest of their lives. You know, Fortune magazine had a big article back in 86. It was the 50 biggest and most powerful mob bosses in the country. And they featured six guys. I was one of the six they featured. It was a huge's like half the magazine but they actually had a chart with the 50 of us on there according to rank and

wealth and power they had me down as number 18 i was the youngest guy on a list i was five behind goddy at the time god he hadn't been made boss yet but that's not important it's a silly list i mean always say how did they make they didn't ask for our tax returns i don't know how they list. I mean, I always say, how did they make, they didn't ask for our tax returns. I don't know how they did it. You know, but it sold a lot of magazines. But here's the thing that's fascinating and that, you know, that keeps me aware of how fortunate and how blessed I am. Out of the list of 50, 33 years later, 49 are dead. Jeez. 49 are dead. And I'm the only one that survived. So when you look at that, you say, well, man, how did that happen? Well, obviously, I'm a person of faith, so I believe God had a different purpose for me. But aside from that, when I left that life, one of the horrors of that

life, Pat, and unfortunately, I witnessed this during my time, you can make a mistake, your best friend picks you up, walks you you into a room you don't walk out again that's it you know you're gone and and when i left the life i said okay they're gonna have to work to get me they're not walking me in a room so i moved to california 3 000 miles away i changed my whole lifestyle what do i mean by that i you know i didn't walk my dog every morning at 7 a.m i don't create patterns in my life. I didn't go to the same restaurant every Tuesday night. So somebody was scoping me out. They know where I am. I stayed out of clubs. Clubs used to be my life. I was six nights a week in a club. That's how I

live. But bad place for me because I know who hangs out in there. Somebody recognizes me. They make a call to New York. They want to be a hero. I walk out in the parking lot. Boom, recognizes me. They make a call to New York. They want to be a hero. I walk out in the parking lot, boom, I'm gone. So, I mean, I did all of that. I was very disciplined in that way. And then over a period of time, I just outlasted everybody. I mean, that's the bottom line. And, you know, they don't have an ax to grind with me right now. I mean, I can't go back to Brooklyn and say, hey, guys, I'm moving back into the neighborhood. You know, I mean, I believe in God, but God doesn't tell you to be stupid. So, you know, I mean, and I've just been very fortunate,

very, very, very fortunate. I don't know how other way to put it because honestly, Pat, I don't know of anybody that reached the level that I reached, publicly walked away from that life and lived to tell about it. I really don't.

Yeah, that's why I was, whenever you were talking to us at West Virginia, I think the first thing I said was, I reached publicly walked away from that life and live to tell about it. I really don't. Yeah. That's why I was, whenever you were talking to us at West Virginia, I think the first thing I said was, this guy's got to be full of shit. There's no way this guy's done all this. He's still alive. And here we are years later, you're still thriving,

still doing great things in the community. And Hey, I want to let you know from all of us over here. Hey, we're happy for you. Hey, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Hey, I want to let you know from all of us over here, hey, we're happy for you. Hey. I appreciate that. Thank you very much.

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Well, let me tell you this. I don't know if you know this, but my dad was released from prison. He did 40 years on that 50 year sentence. He was in and out five times on parole violations, but he was released in 2017 at the age of 100. He was the oldest inmate in the, in the country at the time of his release. My dad will be 103 in February. Holy shit. Yeah. And so, you know, he's, he's still got his ear to the wall. So, you know, I'm still in touch with my dad. And I kind of know what's going on. And, you know, so, I mean, that's how I stay in touch. But, you know, they're very low key right now.

You know, they're not doing things. I mean, they're doing the typical gambling stuff in the numbers business. And, you know, they got some union involvement again. They're kind of getting it back after Giuliani took a lot away or led that charge. So very quietly, I'll tell you what's happening. When I was in that life, we had five families. We had 750 maid guys, guys that actually took the oath that comprised all five families. You had a bunch of associates, but those 750 guys. At that time, the FBI in New York had 1,200 and some odd agents assigned to all five families. So they had a lot of agents around, a lot of law enforcement. Today, okay, same five families, there's less than 100 agents that are

monitoring all five families. Because why? Now they're into terrorism and cyber you know crime and all that kind of stuff so what's happening now i believe is that the mob is building up again slowly quietly you know they kind of went you know underground a little bit you don't hear about them as much you don't read about it as much but trust me they're still there these guys are very resourceful you italians that's awesome you Italians are always gonna find a way we have we have two massive by the way I took a 23 and me test I always thought I was an Irish fella point oh one percent Italian no big deal no big deal I feel pretty good about it I'm a better chef all of a sudden that sounds good I said

I said on your father's side or your mother's I don't know who did it somebody way back though took a little trip to the boot though because you know in order in order to be inducted in a family your father has to be italian so his mom could be of another descent but your dad must be italian okay and that's how you can only become a made man right you can be an associate but your your father has to be italian that's correct. How about that? Mr. Francis, you mentioned you spent some time in prison. Were you treated any differently? Were they influenced at all, both the prisoners and the guards, by who you were? Well, I drew a 10-year prison sentence.

I spent eight years in prison, and I did actually almost three years in solitary they kept me. But I was in the federal system and uh you know i gotta be honest i had a lot of celebrity when i walked in everybody knew who i was because i had a lot of publicity so you know among the inmates you become a big guy because a couple of reasons number one guys are trying to get close to you they figure when they get out maybe you become friends you know you make some money together so they're always kind of trying to get close to you in that regard and the guards it could go either way you can get some of them you know that just say hey you know this is my prison you're not running anything and they can have that attitude with you they resent you immediately and then some that are really cool

i mean i had some guards around me that you know did me a lot i'll tell you something it's funny i had a guard around i was in terminal island, did me a lot. I'll tell you something. This is funny. I had a guard around me. I was in Terminal Island, right? It was a pretty good prison. If you've got to do prison, it was pretty good. It was in San Pedro. It was right on the water. It was really great.

Every Saturday, Pat, you'll laugh. Every Saturday, these young women used to come by in their boats, right? And we used to be in a prison yard. They used to drive by in their boats and pull their you know their their bathing suit top down and thrill all the guys and you saw a wave of guys running to the fence you would have thought almost that we're gonna try to climb over but anyway I had one guard that I was pretty close with and he was in the commissary so he comes to me you know and he used to do me a lot of favors in there and he said Mike I'm in trouble i'm gonna get fired i said why what happened he said my accounting is all off this

month and i'm in real trouble i said well were you stealing money he said nah you know i just messed up i said well i can't lose you you're a good guy in here i said you know i got to keep you around i said let me think about this so i said okay here's what you're gonna do when you but you got to do this on a on a on a night when we have no visiting because I don't want to lose my visiting. They're going to lock us down. He said, OK. So it was a Monday night because there's no visiting Tuesday, Wednesday. Right. I said Monday night when you leave, leave the door unlocked. I said, I'm going to get one of the inmates with a sledgehammer. They're going to make like they broke the door open. They're going to go in there and they're going to steal everything in the commissary. I said, this way, next day you come

in, you blame it on the inmates. You're clear. They'll lock us down for two days and then it's all over. So he said, Mike, that's the greatest idea. So the two inmates I got, I said, listen, don't bring any stuff to my cell. I said, go in there, get all your sneakers, everything you want, but don't bring anything to my cell because I don't want to get going a hole over this. And that was it. They locked us down for two days, and then it was cool. He kept his job, and that was great. Such ingenuity by you, man.

I feel like you're the type of guy, if they were to drop you in the middle of a desert or a jungle, you'd be able to figure out a way to thrive. Honestly, I do believe that. Well, thank you, Pat. That's a good compliment. I don't know about that. You know, I just, you know what I found out, Pat? It's important to have good people around you.

You know, you never do this stuff alone. And, you know, I think even one of the reasons why I survived accountability in life is very important. And I, you know, I've got people around me that hold me accountable. My wife, you know, she won't stand for any nonsense for me. She went through a lot with me. Eight years in prison, you know, death sentence, all this kind of stuff. So, you know, and I just I try to surround myself with good people because really, you know, it's what I tell a lot of the student athletes. You know, you are who you hang with in this world and if uh you know if you hang with the wrong people you get

influenced the wrong way you influence them in the wrong way so i think i've just been very fortunate you know things just break my way you know for all these years and i'm grateful for it except for that 500 fucking pounder that turned on you. Yeah, well, you know, every once in a while. Diggs, you got anything for him? No, no, no, right now. Hey, I want to let you know, I was so excited to chat with you. Todd, this guy was a, he was a 21-year state police, so big fan of yours.

Really? Actually, I am. You guys are pretty cool. You know what's amazing? I have so many friends in law enforcement now that I've, you know, all over the country. You know, I spoke a couple of weeks ago, I went back to Long Island. This was really, really a great experience. And I kind of stayed out of Long Island. That was kind of my headquarters. So I haven't gotten there that

much. But I went back there, spoke at a church. And in the church, the guys that came to hear me were two officers that had arrested me. And one court, what do you call him, court official that, you know, when I was on trial, he was there in the courtroom. So the two officers came up to me and they said, man, you know, it's great to see you turned your life around. He said, you remember me? I said, no, I don't. He said, let me remind you. He said, when I was booking you and I was fingerprinting you, you had a gold diamond ring on and you left it on the side. And when we walked out of the room, you turned to me and said, hey, you stole my ring. Go get my ring back. I didn't steal it. I said, go steal it. I said, if you want,

I'll give it to you. But don't steal it. He said, that's what you told me. So I said, let's go back in the room. And it was on the shelf over there. I said, oh, you're pretty cute. You were going to leave it over there and take it later. You thought I would forget, right? So we were laughing over there i said oh you're pretty cute you were going to leave it over there and take it later you thought i would forget right so we were laughing over it but you know to see these guys they're all retired now but to come full circle like that and see these guys and it was really it was it was just a great experience you know meeting people like that and they were happy for me you know they were glad you you ended up here and not in prison forever hey you're a success story brother people are people i i've read where you had you worked a project with joe pistone who's the real life donnie brosco

for tv or something did that really happen and if so how'd you guys get along well you mean after i left the life yeah yeah he and i have spoken at a number of security events, you know, actually for all the pro teams. And we were on a couple of panels together. And, you know, Joe's a good guy. I mean, he really is. And, you know, he actually wished me a happy Thanksgiving. I got a text from him. But we've probably been in each other's company about ten times over the past several years.

And, you know, I had met him on the street too because i was really friendly with uh you know with one of his guys and um i said to him man i'm glad i didn't do any business with you back then joey said yeah you're lucky you didn't okay the donnie brasco obviously there's documentaries and movies about that the sopranos now the Irishman, where you said it's fabricated. What is the most lifelike movie or documentary or something like that about La Cosa Nostra if we were to want to watch something? And what's the worst? What's the most fabricated thing you've ever seen about the life? Okay.

Well, I'm going to tell you my opinion, one of the best, most accurate movies. You're going to be surprised about this. But it just really factually, it was right on point. And that was the Gotti movie that was done by HBO many years ago with Armand Assante playing Gotti. If you haven't seen it, go on YouTube and watch it. It was terrifically, Armand Assante just killed the role. He was great. Everybody was good. And it was very accurate. You know, they went from court records and wiretaps and all of that and got the information. It was a great movie.

I loved it. And like I say, you can get it on YouTube, I guess. You know, I think the most accurate was Goodfellas, quite honestly. You know, and Donnie Brasco was pretty accurate. Now, there's some things that were fabricated in there also, but the general storyline on both of those movies was pretty on point. And I thought Pacino, you know, as Lefty Guns, he did a fabulous job. I thought it was one of his best acting jobs, really.

He was great in Donnie Brasco. And Goodfellas, I mean, for me, you know, Joe Pesci stole the show there. I mean, he was just, uh, and it was fairly accurate. Both of those movies. So I say,

you know, those three would be on the top. The worst movie, absolute worst was the recent Gotti movie. You know that that was the only movie I know of that got zero on Rotten Tomatoes. Zero. And I felt bad because, you know, I know the Gotti family pretty well. And I said, man, you know, this should have never been made.

It was just terrible. Terrible. We got a guy from Canada in the back. He has a question for you. Sort of along the same lines. You've done documentaries on Discovery, National Geographic, and History Channel. Which one was kind of most realistic that you were in? You know, I think the History Channel one was pretty on point.

I mean, you know, those networks, they're pretty good. I mean, they try to get it factually correct. I just did another one, and I'm just signing a deal with a big production company to do a television series. And right now the working title is Gas Wars. And what it's going to be is, like I said earlier, Pat, you know, the golden years of that life were from the 50s to the 80s. And we're going to do it under the umbrella of the gas business because so many families were touched by it at that time. I'm real excited. They put on a great writer, and I think it's going to be a great series.

You'll probably see it in about a year, but we're working on it now. But those Discovery Channel, History Channel, they do a pretty good job in getting it right. At least my experience with them has been that way. If you need an Irish guy that's got.01% Italian in it, let me know. I was going to ask, so everyone has a nickname. What is your favorite nickname that you came across of your entire time in the mafia? Oh, gosh, there's so many.

We weren't very original. There was a guy, Benny Eggs. They called him Benny Eggs because he liked eggs. He wasn't creative. There was another guy called Chicken Head. We called him Chicken Head because he used to shoot the heads off of chickens. That's how he would practice his marksmanship. So we call him Chickenhead. I mean, look, one of my favorite guys. I mean, you didn't call Fat Tony Fat Tony. But he was one of my favorite guys because he was right out of Central Casting. I don't know if you ever seen him. But he was about 5'6". He was kind of on the heavy side, smoked a cigar, and wore a fedora, right? Right out of Central Casting. He really talked really gruff, you've seen him in the movie

it was portrayed pretty well, but I'll tell you a story, he called me one day he was the boss of the Genovese family, he had a social club in Harlem so he sent for me, I was the captain with the Columbo's but when a boss sends for you, you go, right so I put it on record with my boss and I go see Tony and his club

and he's sitting out in front He says to me Mike. I gotta ask you a question. That's what Tony he said What are you doing with this gas business? I hear you doing pretty good. I said, yeah, Tony. I'm doing good He said you're making money. I said, yeah, Tony. No complaints. I'm doing good. He said I got a favor to ask you I say hey, you're the boss anything you want. What could I do for you? He said I got these five mama Luke's around me. They can't earn five cents. All deadbeats. He said, I got to support them.

I'm tired of seeing them. He said, you do me a favor. You give them a job? I said, yeah, Tony, I'll help you out. He said, what will they do? I said, well, look, I got a bunch of gas stations. How about I put them in charge of a gas station? They'll operate it for me.

And I said, but Tony, don't let them rob me. You know how these guys are. I said, rob you? I'll cut off their hands, their arms, just like that, right? I said, well, you don't have to do that. Just make sure they don't rob me, right? So he says to me, that sounds good. He said, how much will they make?

How much are you going to pay them? So now I'm thinking about it, right, Pat? I don't want to insult the boss, you know. I said, let me think about it. I said, Tony, how about I give about i give him 1500 a week in cash each week i said will that work he looks at me and he says 1500 give them 500 give me the thousand i said hey tony you're the boss whatever you want and that's how we did you know i tell you pal you make a lot of friends when you're making that kind of money man it was it

was amazing you know that's it helped me out a lot. You know, then I had a jet plane. Guys need to go someplace. I would fly them around. I had a helicopter. I drove the feds crazy when I was on trial with Giuliani. Right. I used to live out Long Island. So I would get my helicopter in Garden City. It would take me 18 minutes to get in. Right? So I'm in trial in Manhattan. And when we were ready to leave, the FBI agents are coming from Long Island. I said, hey guys, you got a three and a half hour drive. Why don't you jump in a helicopter? I said, come on.

I said, come on. It's not that expensive. I won't charge you. You know, they used to get mad at me. No, we can't do that. What was your name? Money Mike? No.

You know what? I hated my first first of all nobody gave me a nickname on the street but the media started calling me the yuppie don and i hate it i hate that yuppie kind of thing right it was like california style you know whatever but it stuck so guys started calling me yuppie i said you don't say that you know you're gonna be in trouble now but anyway yeah that was the only nickname i had you got anything hey uh i can't thank you enough for joining us michaelfranzese.com what's on there your appearances and how people can book you yeah i got all of that and you know i just uh i did a uh i do a lot of podcasts and all i did one with mike tyson the other day that was classic i gotta tell you and it just dropped yesterday and it's been getting a lot of attention but i you know i'm on instagram and uh and um what do you call facebook and twitter all that

stuff you know you gotta be on that when you do what i do but uh yeah people can tune in and uh mike i had a great interview with mike and i gotta tell you he's he's turned you know he's so brutally honest it's unbelievable and he's really he's turned his life around in a big way you know and i i really enjoyed the interview i had was wild. Don't get me wrong But you know Mike but we had a good time. Did you did you guys ever get involved in boxing? I feel like the judges Always have a chance to be persuaded Big time into boxing Mike. That was the store sport that we were really involved in we owned fighters, you know

I don't want to mention names now, but we had a lot of influence in that sport and yes fights were fixed guys do take a dive at times you know it was it was a sport especially in the 40s and 50s that was heavily manipulated by us that much i can tell you do you kind of all right so with all the things that you know like it's almost like learning that Santa Claus is real. Is that kind of like your life now? If you see something happen, you start thinking to yourself, maybe the 103-year-old dad is cooking up some shit here. You know what I mean?

Do you have that thought? Yeah, I'm always growing up the way I did and being involved. I'm always cynical. I have a cynical eye on everything. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but then that old mob stuff mentality starts to creep in i said nah this ain't right everybody's got to make a living pat you know they got to do it one way or the other um man you were awesome i can't thank you enough i i just i as soon as i heard you speak in west

virginia i was you had me you had everybody captivated for the entire thing. Just because the mafia is this thing that very much existed in our world, but people that aren't involved in it are just so mind-blown by the fact that it did. It's like, oh, these humans are living in the same world as us with the same laws as us. Just getting around it and making a living, not just a living, a big-time living. And then all the dangers of it. I mean, it's amazing. Not only what you accomplished in the mafia, by the way, you probably don't get congratulated for that much, but I just want to let you know you should be happy with what you accomplished

in there. And then turning your life around is an incredible story. I hope a lot of people listening learn of the man that is Mike Francis, because you're a legend, sir. Well, listen, I appreciate that, Pat. And, you know, again, to me, I've just been very, very fortunate because it certainly could have went the other way for me. And, you know, I'm thankful on a daily basis. And I will tell you this, you know, I'm amazed when

you're part of that life, you don't think that there's so much intrigue from people outside of it. But when I got outside and started talking about it, I mean, I'm amazed at the fascination of this life all over the world. I mean, do you know that the biggest movie ever in China was The Godfather? Number one movie in China. I didn't know that. And I went to Singapore. I spoke at a big event in Singapore. It was a ticketed event. And when we opened it up, we had 1,800 people there. When we opened it up for questions, I was amazed that i was there for two and a half hours answering questions about the the life about gadi about all the movies the paul castellano murder and you know they asked me in singapore if i knew where jimmy hoffer was buried in singapore

do you do you uh well you know i mean I look I you know I I can tell you this that movie was fabricated I don't I don't know if the truth will ever come out but you know look he got he disappeared in 75 that was right through my time I I can tell you that the order came down from New York and there was talk about it way back when. I think I know better than most what really

went down there. I'll leave it at that. I'm not joining the Hoffa train where every other week somebody comes out. I know where the body is and all this kind of stuff. I doubt they're ever going to find his body. I can tell you that. Ladies and gentlemen, MichaelFrancis.com, WiseGuysWisdom.com. Turned his entire life around.

Great coach, inspirational man. Hire him to talk at your whatever it is. You're captivating, and I can't thank you enough. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Francis. Well, same here, Pat. Thanks a lot for having me on. I heard, you know, so many great things about the show and i can see it you know so i'm glad you've uh you've gone down this road and things look great for you too so it's all good i'm gonna book you to come talk in here man just i mean i i absolutely i'm so

intrigued by the entire thing because of i grew up around all italian literally all italians digilio maraldo impavito peronio uh master giacomo dallas salad these are all my friends like where i grew up so i'm literally all italian so the entire thought of the mob has been literally something that i've been intrigued by since i was a child so it's like really cool well where's your studio indianapolis oh indianapolis okay you know You know, I go to Chicago quite a bit, and I actually have a close relationship in Chesterton, Indiana, which is not too far from me. I think it's about a two-hour drive from Indianapolis.

So I go there quite a bit. Maybe we'll connect. I would love to. That would be awesome. I would be very honored. I'm very thankful you came on, man. Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Hey, and thanks for holding the iPhone, by the way, here for 47 minutes. Your fore be very honored. I'm very thankful you came on, man. Appreciate it. Hey, and thanks for holding the iPhone by the way here for 47 minutes. Your forearms must be, I mean, burning. Well, they're not like yours, I can tell you that. But anyway, my wife just gave me this gadget to put on the back of the phone so it's easy to hold.

Oh, the little button thing. Hey, now your wife is a famous lady as well, right? My wife's great, man. You know, listen, if it button thing. Hey, now, your wife is a famous lady as well, right? My wife's great, man. You know, listen, if it wasn't for her, I'd either be dead or in prison for the rest of my life. No doubt about it. So she, you know, she deserves any credit for getting me on the straight and narrow. That's for sure.

And she keeps me that way, too. But, yeah, I mean, she's terrific, you know, and she's kind of low key. You know, I'm the guy out there doing this stuff. And she kind of just keeps me straight in the background. Whenever you said you were going to go straight or whatever, I wonder she had to be so scared for you, I'd assume. Well, she was, you know, because the feds told her. I mean, when I was out on parole, the feds told her that, you know, it's only a matter

of time I was going to get killed. I mean, every time I walked out the door, Pat, literally, we didn't have cell phones back then. We had beepers. She used to beep me like five, six times. I had to run to a pay phone, tell her I was all right. I mean, they really scared her. They really did. So for, you know, in my house now, I'm telling you this, I have five daughters. I got two boys. I got, you know, the whole bit in my house now, house now, if the doorbell rings early in the morning, nobody will answer it. Because they figure I'm going to get arrested or something's going to go wrong.

This is 20-some-odd years later. They get afraid when the doorbell rings. I mean, that's how much of an impression that stuff made on them. In The Irishman, I know it's fabricated, but when Joe was about to turn on the car, when all those car bombings were happening, there was a moment there where I was like, oh, I didn't even think about every single time you turn your car on,

you have to think like, oh, shit, this thing could blow up right in my face right now. I mean, you guys were savages back in the day, absolute savages. Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, look, you had to be, to survive in that life, you had to be on the alert pretty much all the time. Did you wear suits every day? What's that? Did you wear suits every day?

I did, yeah. It was terrible. I mean, look, and my weekends, Pat, my weekends were weddings and funerals. And half the time, I didn't know who was getting married or who died, but we had to go because, you know, respect. You got 750 made guys, and somebody's always dying and getting married, and so you had to have respect. You know, we went with our guys. We got a table.

We gave an envelope, and if it was a funeral, we went there, paid our respects. There was times when I went to two, three weddings, two funerals in a weekend. It was like part of our life. Geez. Did you dance on that dance floor? No. two three weddings two funerals in a weekend it was it was like part of our life jeez did you dance on a dance floor no i didn't do that just get the envelope that was it hey we're here thank you so much good luck have a good one appreciate it pat thank you thanks guys thank you so much

you're amazing man thank you cheers dude hey stay alive he was awesome yeah that was incredible he was awesome dude so good good talk for hours i've been looking to book him for a long time literally as soon as i heard him speak at west virginia i was like i want to talk to that guy again i mean now that i'm older too and i've seen more documentaries and more movies it's just just like, that's fucking awesome. My face hurts. I just smiled the entire time. I saw the Italians light up over there saying, this is one of our heroes, this guy. Hey, we're making a comeback too. You heard it.

By the way, him saying, my dad, he's 103. That's how I kind of keep in touch. I would love to see his dad over there, just like Russ and the Irishman, just like, don't do that. How about that line? Yeah, I don't think they're ever going to find that body.

He knows where it's at. Yeah, for sure. He said, I'm not going to come out on the Hoffa train. Or has a good idea. Yeah. That was right during my time, he said. I mean, that was insane. The call came down from New York, which is where I was. I was one of the biggest earners they had, so I'm pretty high up in the family.

Yeah, they're not going to find the body. I mean, that is a hilarious thought. A lot of people say it's under MetLife or whatever. It's under the stadium in Meadowlands. Yeah, at least it was buried in the end zone of Meadowlands. One of 50. Just so every single time that any of the mob people watch a football game they can just get a little bit of

a little chuckle that motherfucker you Italians oh us Italians I guess there you go part of the family you gotta figure out

if it's your dad's side or your mom's side I know because if this all comes crashing down I might be the second Irishman who got a ring

you know what I mean I don't like the fact that he said it was all fabricated though not all down, I might be the second Irishman who got a ring. You know what I mean? I don't like the fact that he said it was all fabricated, though. Not all. Yeah, I mean, based on the book, too. Yeah, but the book is by the guy. Yeah, the book was based on like seven interviews with that guy, and it was kind of

rumored he was always in that job. That was awesome. I'm very thankful for Michael Fentese. Follow him on Instagram and the Facebook and Twitter and everywhere he's at. He's a legend, man. I'm going to have him come by the office. Please do. We're all wearing suits.

We have to wear suits. The day he walks in, we're all wearing suits. For him, when a movie like that comes out, though, he must just be waiting to see. If he's portrayed in it. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Or how true or not it is. Yeah, because every single time he's watching it, probably with the wife, like, there's no way that's true.

Think about what that guy did to that guy. There's no way that that would happen. That guy wasn't even that guy. The way he probably dissects it is probably just like, ah. Anytime like a- It's like you watching a punt. Exactly. And listen to the commentators.

This guy. That is not. That's the way it goes. Anytime a movie comes out, we should have him on. Just be our specialist forators. This guy. That is not. That's the way it goes. Anytime a movie comes out, we should have him on. Just like be our specialist for that. All right. One to ten.

How accurate? Just hang up after. He's like a three, Pat. All right. Thank you, Mike. Big thanks to him. Insert breaking news sound here. Justin Timberlake just apologized for his actions, said he was too damn drunk, causing a bad example for his child, and I

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Go to OmahaSteaks.com, type AMERICA in the search bar, to order the gift package that everyone will love. The favorite gift package today joining us now is a man that I believe should win the college football coach of the year the head coach of the Baylor Bears he once played football at Penn State turned around Temple and has done the same damn thing in Waco. Ladies and gentlemen, head coach Matt Rule. Hey, what's up, man? How are you? I'm excellent. How are you feeling going into the big weekend, boss man? Well, I'm excited.

You know, most of I had on the calendar that we were supposed to be out recruiting this week, so to have a chance to be in the office and work with the guys and have a chance to go play a great Oklahoma team on a national stage, man, I can't ask for any more than this. I've got a chance to be in your office and working with the guys and have a chance to go play a great oklahoma team on on a national stage man i can't ask for any more than this i've got a chance to be in your building and around your team the environment the culture is a beautiful one all you do is see signs of one

and oh one and oh let's look forward to the next week what did you learn though looking back on that last oklahoma game that you'll carry into this weekend? Yeah, I think we learned a lot, but mainly two things. Number one, we learned, I think our guys figured out, because this is our first time. Oklahoma's been at this level for a long time, and this is our first time with this group of guys playing big games in November. National Game Day was there, National TV.

And I think for the first half, I think our guys realized, man, we're one of the top few teams in the country. I mean, we played and looked like a big time, big time national power. And then in the second half, I think we learned also what Oklahoma is about. You know, they came back and they, you know, they had a championship mindset and they fought back. And I think our guys learned that, you know what, we can't look at the clock. We can't look at the scoreboard. We can't hope to win.

That's not how we're built, man. We're a team that has to go out and just compete and fly around and not worry about what happens. And I think in the second half, from me on down, we were just trying to hope that the clock ran out and we had more points and it didn't work out. So I told the guys this week, man, this week is not about the Big 12 championship. It's not about a rematch. It's not about the CFP. It's not about the CFP.

It's about going 1-0 this week, and that's what's got us here. It's hard to do. It's easy to say, but hopefully we can have that same mindset. Yeah, how do you keep, because you have a young team. You said it. The team has not been in this situation before. There's a lot of conversation right now about if you guys win this, you're talking about some big dreams, big aspirations coming to fruition.

How do you know that that's reality and not have your boys focus on that well i mean so i try to address the reality like hey we're in this position man and it's pretty cool you know like like you know i got i got people texting me like angry that we're number seven and i'm like you know okay i'll take it you know i mean um but so i don't think you can run away from it. But I think you have to always remind yourself, man, how did I get here? You know, how did I get to this spot? And we got to the spot by being really humble and just playing one snap at a time, one game at a time. And so I think we realize, like, if we go out and we win the football game, then we continue to stay in the conversation.

If we go out, we lose the football game. We're not in the conversation anymore. So the only thing we can control is trying to go win the football game and i think the fact that we played oklahoma three games ago is is is really good for our guys i think it's you know fresh on their minds there's a lot to learn from i know oklahoma will be ready they're a great team and i think our guys recognize man you know what we better just we better focus on playing really good football and hopefully put a full game together. Super blue-collar team you have. The coaching staff, the players, everything on through is a blue-collar squad.

I think that is all of Waco, Texas, by the way. That's why they're beloved by their fan base. And you don't like to ever talk about yourself, but I want to ask you a question to dive a little deeper about you. Whenever you were asked to turn around the Baylor Bears program, right? And that's what you were tasked with whenever you took that job. the Baylor Bears program, right? And that's what you were tasked with whenever you took that job. There was PR nightmare after PR nightmare,

bad decision after bad decision happened in that program before you got there. And then you were asked to turn it around. Was there any thought in your mind that this could happen A, so quickly, or B, so grandly as it has? Well, you know, I didn't realize it was going to be quite as bad the first year as it was.

You know, I thought, hey, you know, we can have a pretty good team. And even kind of going into that season, I did. And we just weren't ready for it, and we had a bunch of injuries. But, you know, I expected us to follow a very similar path that we did at Temple. And, you know, Temple, we went 2-10, we went 6-6, and we didn't get to even go to a bowl game. And then we finished the regular season the next year, 10-2, went to the championship game, and then won the championship game the next year. And so I believe in our staff.

I believe in our process and the way of doing things. And I said, you know what, even as we were going through that first year here at 1-11, I kept reminding the staff, you know what, we always said at Temple our best coaching job was the first year. It wasn't the 10-win year. It wasn't the championship year. It was the first year when we taught the guys, hey, this is how we do what we do, and we kept them in it. And so when we were going 1 and 11 that first year, I kept saying, let's do our best coaching job. Let's keep the guys engaged. Let's teach them. And those guys that were out there that went 1 and 11, they're the same guys that are out here now. There's no grad transfer that came in.

There's no big transfer that came in and helped us get where we are. I mean, this is the same guys. And so I felt confident just because we had done it once before. But I really felt confident when I saw the character of the guys on our team and the way they grinded for each other. I've gotten a chance to meet a lot of college coaches with this Thursday Night Football thing. And I'm going to be honest, some of them are absolute bums.

They have no idea. They have no reason being a head coach in college football. Just chatting with them, it's like, well, how does this guy get the job that he has? Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. It's a whole different thing. But then whenever we talk to your staff, I mean, it was just such a professional operation

from top to bottom. What is it about turning programs around that really gets you guys ticking? I mean, that seems like that is really what it is. Is that something that you get full fulfillment out of, is making guys meet their full potential when they haven't in the past? Yeah, I think so. I mean, people are going to have different legacies, and I think no one job is harder

than the other but when i when i sit there and say hey how do i want to be remembered as a coach not as a man not as a father but just as a coach i wanted to be remembered as someone who who built things who always left places better than they found them and that's true for my staff you know i came here and seven of the guys came with me from temple another 20 off the field came here and i think it's just you, at the end of the day, you have to make your ultimate purpose in some way. You can want to do a lot of different things. But if I have a choice between winning and or making sure that our players

have better lives for having been here, I'm going to always choose our players. And that's true for our staff. And so when you come to a place where guys are going through a hard time or guys aren't fulfilling their potential, and you start waking up each and every day saying, how do I make not the team, not myself, not my pension, how do I make the players better? How do I help them maximize?

Then all of a sudden, you know, the walk-on that's in the corner locker that has, like, number 123, you know, it doesn't feel a part of anything. All of a sudden now he's got coaches asking him about his tests. He's got coaches pushing him in the weight room. He's got coaches coaching him like he's a Heisman Trophy candidate. And he starts to say, you know what, I can do this. And then it just permeates through the whole locker room where everybody feels engaged. Everybody's being pushed. No one feels like they're favorites. And then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you have a good team. And so I just think that's our approach. I mean, you know, every coach says, well, you know,

I love the players like my own kids. Well, that takes time and that takes effort, and I think our staff does a great job of that. Your kids are around the program on a pretty regular basis. You told a story to us in our coaches meeting that your son was in the, correct me if I'm wrong, in the tunnel after a game behind a player who maybe was hanging his head. You were about to chew him out, but you saw your son standing right behind him. You're like, well, if I was his father, I wouldn't want to do that.

It kind of shaped the way that you coach. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah. We were 0-3 at Temple. This is my first year. We went out to play Idaho. We lost by a touchdown at the end of the game. And I knew we were eventually going to get it turned around.

And we're walking out of the field into a tunnel to go into the locker room. And I see guys kind of hanging their head. And I see Sharif Finch, who's a freshman linebacker, who's a dynamic player for the Tennessee Titans right now. And a great story, too. But I see Sharif Finch, he's this freshman linebacker, and he's hanging his head and i'm about to get after him like get your head up you know we don't do that and you know just be a typical coach right and and i see bryant right behind him and bryant has

the same exact look and i could see in my son you know he had so much hope he had worked you know he had he had bryant hadn't really worked but but the players had worked, but Brian had dreamt that this would be our first win. And he was so sad, not for himself, but for the team and for me as his dad. And I, just the feeling of empathy overwhelmed me and it made me stop and not yell at Sharif. And it made me go in the locker room and say, guys, I know how much this hurts, but if you stay with it, I promise you someday we'll be champions. And that's what young people don't need to be coddled, but they do need to be talked to truthfully.

And I told them, we're going to win if you'll just hang in there. And Sharif left Temple a champion and went there as a pro football player. But I think until you truly, truly, truly love and push your players like they're your own kids, it's all just words. And that was a real learning moment for me. was surprised that was really cool to hear in that coach's thing because a lot of coaches get caught up in you know if we win i get paid and that can kind of take away the human side of it and the fact that your family is so involved and that your kids are literally on the sidelines as hype machines for the team every week is a beautiful thing yeah i think uh I think a lot of our players come to us from all different backgrounds,

and we want them all to be great men. We also want them to be great fathers someday and great husbands, and people say that, but what better way to do that than to model it? So my kids, my son, Bryant, the coach's sons, my two daughters, they're here with me every Sunday. They're six and they're four, and they're maniacs, but they're here with me every sunday they're six and they're four and they're maniacs but they're in the office and you know what if if i don't put my kids first then i can never tell my players that it's important to be a father and if my players hear me like you know make jokes about my wife and then they don't really know what a loving relationship looks

like when they see me my wife walk in the building they see the way i treat her when they see the way i love her when they come to our house and my wife cooks for them and and and they then then we're truly modeling um what it means to have a family what a blessing that is and so we do that and at the same time i tell the players if my son's out of line like he doesn't get to cut ahead in fortnight like he he's also got now 114 older brothers that are teaching him the ropes and and making sure he stays in line so it's a it's a good win in every single sense of the word. Okay, you mentioned that your friends were texting you saying they're upset that you were at number seven. Let's talk about the top seven real quick.

Ohio State has three Heisman candidates. LSU has a revamped offense where everybody's talking about Joe Burrow, who I think is the most NFL-ready quarterback right now out of everybody in this class. Clemson obviously has Trevor Lawrence and a bunch of superstars. Georgia has what people are saying the best offensive line, Jake Fromm. They have a bunch of studs. They've been there, done that with national championship. Utah, I don't know anybody about them.

Oklahoma, Jalen Hurts, Lincoln Riley. Everybody says this is the most innovative coach in the history of college football. They've had Heisman winner after Heisman winner. Now Jalen Hurts is in the same conversation. Your Baylor team is a bunch of unknowns nationally. I mean, Charlie Brewer is a quarterback. Denzel Mims is a superstar. You have leading in sacks on the defensive side of the ball.

But your team, I think they really rely on being a family and being tight. What is it about this team that makes them so good when there isn't, like, the national superstar on the team carrying it? Because we're just a complete team. And we're just a bunch of hungry, gritty, tough dudes that love to play the game. And, you know, we've sometimes taken heat for winning close games. And, like, I'm not really a participation trophy kind of a guy. Like, either you won or you lost, right?

Like, sometimes it's like, well, they lost to them, and these guys beat them. But since they lost to a really good team, like, there's no participation trophy for me for losing. Like, we've gone out 11 times, and we've won the game 11 times. And we lost to Oklahoma, and you don't hear me make any excuses about it. They beat us. But we're three points away from being undefeated, you know, or four points away from being undefeated.

And our one loss is to the number six team in the country. So I'm proud of our guys. But, you know what, you mentioned a lot of guys there. And, you know, it's interesting. I mean, it's in the greatest of respect. Of those six teams above us, three of those teams are playing with quarterbacks they didn't recruit, like that transferred in there because of the brand and the opportunity to go there and play.

We're just a bunch of homegrown, you know, guys. Like we're a team that, you know, there's not a ton of, you know, a ton of big-name players in terms of recruiting, in terms of nationally, but we've got a bunch of future pros, and we've got a bunch of future NFL players, and they like to play together. We like to to play defense we like to play special teams and they complement each other well and so I hope that we go out and play a really good game on Saturday not even for the rank I want people to see uh just how complete of a team you know we have at Baylor okay and before I let you go I know you're very busy and I appreciate your time uh Phil Snow defensive coordinator was just nominated as a finalist for the Art Broyles Award

Tell me about him And your relationship with him And how he's going to be able to stop this incredibly creative Lincoln Riley offense Well, I think Phil's one of the best of the best And he's been my defensive coordinator Ever since I became a head coach He did it at Temple, he came to Baylor

And to me, to be up for the Broyles Award To be one of the five finalists As a defensive coach. He did it at Temple. He came to Baylor. To me, to be up for the Broyles Award, to be one of the five finalists as a defensive coach in the Big 12 is an accomplishment unlike any other. Coach Snow's GA at UCLA in 2001 when he was the defensive coordinator there. By the way, we led the Pac-12 or Pac-10 at the time in all the different defensive categories. And, you know, he used to scream at me like, hey, rules, that coffee pot broke. And I had to go make a fresh pot of coffee and bring it to him. And I told him I took the job. I said, I'm not bringing you coffee anymore now. I mean, you know, I'm in charge now.

But he's a great coach. And he's a guy to me that's reinvented himself. You know, he was a defensive coordinator at Arizona State when they played Ohio State for the national championship. reinvented themselves. You know, he was a defensive coordinator at Arizona State when they played Ohio State for the national championship. He was a defensive coordinator at UCLA, led the Pac-12 conference in all those categories, went to Eastern Michigan, went to the NFL, came to Temple.

We had a top 25 defense. And now, coming to the Big 12 and two years of us kind of struggling, has put together one of the best defenses in the country. And so I don't think you can stop Lincoln Riley. I don't think you can stop Jalen Hurts and CeeDee Lamb. But we can certainly go out there and try to limit what they do. And I think even in the first game, you know, we limited the big plays. We got some turnovers.

And in the end, if our offense plays better in the second half and just gets a couple first downs, we win the game. And so our defense, you know, they played 96 plays. They got a little tired at the end. But it's a great matchup. I have so much respect for Coach Riley, and I have so much respect for Coach Snow. I think it'll be a great battle and an interesting subplot in the game. I can't wait to see it.

Has anybody done any Brazos belly flops over there since I went into that river? No, but that is going to be part of our off-season conditioning. We do a team commitment week where you have to kind of do all these different things you know as it's a competition and to show so uh first of all we'd love to have you back for that but number two that that is going to be part of the uh get bonus points if you do it uh get a little deeper into the river that thing was only four feet where i was you have a couple deep tackles they might die hey coach i can't thank you enough for your time and your hospitality good luck this. I'm pulling hard for the I think college football coach of the year in my eyes Baylor Bears head coach Matt rule. Good luck boss, man

I came in in Houston Playing against Peyton Manning and all those years even though we won a couple times But I used to like playing against Peyton Manning and all those years, even though we won a couple times. But I used to like playing against Peyton in a good, bad way. I was young, so I was learning. But it was difficult, but it was fun. It was all types of stuff. There's a chess match with him, right? Because he's literally looking at you in the mic.

That is who he is reading everything off of. So it's like a chess match with him, right? Because he's literally looking at you in the mic. That is who he is reading everything off of. So it's like a chess match. And see, when I was young playing against Peyton, I was playing corner and nickel, right? So when I moved into the nickel, I kid you not, Peyton Manning used to look at me every single play. Like, he was looking at me to figure out what we were in. single play like he was looking at me to figure out what we were in like i literally got better playing against peyton manning because he used to stare at me the entire time and i used to always try to figure out like why does he keep looking at me continually looking at me and then i learned that you know i was the young guy so i was the guy that he could probably like tell okay he's in

quarters this time you know he's in cover tell okay he's in quarters this time you know he's in cover two now he's in man okay now he's blitzing like he used to look at me all the time and he would put joseph adai right there in my face and he would play action me and try to throw it like i got so much better playing against pay man and so he was probably one of my favorites to play i love joseph adai by the way i don't know if you've ever met him one of the coolest dudes in the history i have no youtube probably had to square off a little bit but that guy is yeah so man peyton used to have you i don't know if you know this and i'll tell you this now why they were looking at you is a back the backup quarterback for peyton manning offense

had homework assignments all week that they had a notebook that they had to return to peyton that would tell them like okay if this guy does this then they're in this and you being a rookie or a young guy, you were the tell, I would assume, that that happens. That happened every single – if you ever watch Peyton, I used to enjoy this because I learned about this because Curtis Painter was my roommate in training camp my rookie year. So I got a chance to overhear conversations that I probably shouldn't have heard, but I was in there listening to it.

And then every single game, you watch him in the first series, whenever you see him scour the field and he looks at somebody, it's like, oh, that's the guy they're reading today. That is the guy that it's to read today. And it's incredible how much that you could pick up just from one little tell. And for you, I'd assume that you had to be like, okay, I got to get a little bit better at disguising. I got to get a bit tighter.

And it probably helped you out immensely, I assume. Oh, yeah. It definitely helped me out from that aspect. But I took the same approach. So, like, what I started doing when i would watch film is i'm not gonna try to pick up on this whole entire scheme i'm gonna find one person that could tell me run a pass and i'm gonna find one thing that i can figure out okay this is how he like to run this right this is his favorite route and this is how he runs it so when i see it i know it's coming and so i will find one old lineman that would tell me run or pass

and i would just watch him and i would know okay boom this is this is run this is past and then i will find that one person that i was going against and i would try to find just that one that one play that one route that i knew was his favorite and i knew how he liked to run it and when i was when i saw it i would go and some a lot of times it worked out sometimes it didn't but it was just like that was that was my film study isn't it insane to think that there's billions and billions of dollars spent in the nfl and it all comes down to a guy maybe offsetting his foot by three inches, and you're like, all right, well, it's a run.

We know it's a run. The NFL Coach of the Year candidates for this year, I think there's five noted names that should be talked about, five to six, and I think, honestly, this is a tough, tough decision to be made. Obviously, my favorite for the entire thing is hardball strictly because he committed completely to a brand new style of offense a brand new quarterback he's revamped that entire team to become this dynamic team that nobody has been able to stop once they got going speaking of assistant coach of the year greg roman i think should be the guy for what he's been able to do

with that offense both adjusting and bobbing and weaving with that offense. It all starts with Harbaugh. Good for him changing the team. And it seems like he's connected with Lamar Jackson. There was a moment there where Lamar told Harbaugh he loved him and Harbaugh told him back, I love you too. That is a big moment for a player that can go a long way. My second coach, Kyle Shanahan.

Last year, there was a lot of hype behind the 49ers. A lot of hype for them. Fell flat whenever Jimmy G decided to zig instead of zag. Went on a date with a porn star. Did a lot of hype behind the 49ers. A lot of hype for them. Fell flat whenever Jimmy G decided to zig instead of zag. Went on a date with a porn star. Did a lot of things. The hype was real. They ended up stinking last year. This year, come in with no hype, no glamour,

and instead have become this defensive dominant team that has won a lot, a lot of games. Also, Salah, the defensive coordinator. There's another guy that should be up for assistant coach of the year. Him and Roman, I think, are in a two-man race for that particular thing. In third, I have Sean Payton because they were able to go 4-0 with Teddy Bridgewater, the backup quarterback, which put them in a position to still have home field advantage in the playoffs in the NFC, to be able to win with a backup and be able to win in certain different ways.

Now, granted, they lost to the Falcons there at home big. That that's going to happen sometimes you just run into a buzzsaw or you're not prepared for a game i think this year may be sean payton's best work yet will they be able to go on to run the playoffs possibly mike tomlin another guy i'm a big fan of him i like what he's done it's going to be tough to get any votes because the afc north is being run by the ravens right now and harbaugh is probably the outright winner. But he's been able to win with a lot of quarterbacks, a lot of different players, a recipe for disaster. Mike Tomlin has been able to turn into a recipe for success.

Now, granted, you find Doc Hodges lying in the weeds, an all-time, all-pro, Hall of Fame quarterback. That's going to help, but I think Mike Tomlin's done a hell of a job this year. Love Coach T. We'll take a bullet for him. Can't be in this conversation. You start managing Mason Rudolph for eight games, you're automatically out of the Coach of the Year conversation. Okay, there it is. I also think Pete Carroll is a guy that should be talked about. Pete Carroll

is a guy that should be chatted about in the Coach of the Year candidate. He's the oldest coach in the NFL and somehow has this ability to relate to these young guys. I like Pete Carroll. I like Russell Wilson I like that Seahawks team and it feels like they're coming together at the right time now I don't know if I said five or four yet but if it's a fifth one I'm gonna go with Sean McDermott of the Buffalo Bills Gumpy thought there was a chance it was gonna be

beeflo but for me it's coach Sean McDermott in the AFC East because, now granted, Bill Belichick can also get this honor if you want. I mean, every year you can give it to Bill Belichick. But for me, McDermott, he cut Tyrod Taylor a couple years ago after making the playoffs. He was getting everybody out of town. Everybody's like, how, outside of Buffalo, how is this guy still in charge of things?

It seems like he's taking the team the opposite direction. And instead, Josh Allen has progressed incredibly in the last last year he's become good the defense has become dominant bills mafia has actual hope again for the first time in a long time i like what he's doing there those are my candidates obviously you can throw belichick in there anytime greatest coach of all times the coach of the year coach of the century whatever you want to call him but for me i think it's harbaugh's award to win i think shanahan's in there i think b carroll's in there i think tomlin's in there and i think mcdermott's in there in my eyes personally i could be completely wrong who gives a damn harbaugh's gonna win it doesn't matter about the

other four i've had an absolute blast today i hope you have as well big thanks to michael francis that you can follow on social media at Michael Franzese. Z-E-S-E there at the end of Fran. What a fucking majestic conversation with a guy. Just telling us about everything. How about his dad being 100 and some years old? Insanity. Very thankful for him.

Shout out to the coach of the year candidates that we talked about. Little chit chat there about Peyton Manning from Glover Quinn. Matt Rule mean this has been a hell of a day hell of a show and we can't thank you enough for listening and watching wherever you may be the gifting season is finally here and as you start to think about the perfect holiday gift for him or her Tommy John should be the first thing that comes to mind. Tommy John is a revolutionary underwear, loungewear, and clothing brand that guarantees a perfect fit. Tommy John is here to save your holiday season with gifts to eliminate awkward adjustments for men and women. They create innovative products like breathable, wedgie-proof underwear and ridiculously soft loungewear and pajamas that are guaranteed to fit perfectly. Tommy John uses lightweight, breathable fabrics with multi-directional stretch

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Big thanks for listening. Use hashtag EndGangEndGame to win a card to our store and send me something that makes me go ha ha ha ha. Sam is traveling to a concert, so I will be home all alone, and I would like to laugh. We'll probably do a little Q&A on the Twitter this afternoon, later this evening. I'm going to be heartbroken that she won't be at the house, so we will keep things, keep me entertained on the internet. Ain't that right, babe? Yeah. How will I survive i honestly

have no clue this is the first week where i've been able to sleep at home here for four nights in a row and uh i don't know how i'm gonna live uh with sam not home but we will survive i will survive hey hey uh big thanks to everybody that joined the show today you're the absolute greatest ty schmidt play some independent music Thank you. The so so Bye. so I'm out. Thank you. Outro Music Thanks for watching!