The Pat McAfee Show - PMS 2.0 217 - BIG SHOW TUESDAY. Robert Mathis, Kordell "Slash" Stewart, Andrew Brandt, & Legend, AJ Hawk Stop By.

Episode Date: June 23, 2020

Today’s show is a great one. First, Pro Bowler, 2001 AFC Offensive Player of the Year, former 2nd round pick of the Pittsburgh Steelers out of Colorado, Kordell “Slash” Stewart joins the program. Pat and Kordell chat about if he ever thinks he was before his time as a quarterback when he see’s what the current NFL QB’s are doing, why the stigma of being an athletic quarterback always bothered him, Kordell tells some hilarious stories about his time in Pittsburgh, and chats about his son carrying on his legacy (1:01-26:47). Next is another installment of McAfee & Hawk Sports Talk as Pat and AJ are joined in studio by Super Bowl Champion, 5x Pro Bowler, All-Pro, 2013 AFC Defensive Player of the Year, member of the Indianapolis Colts Ring of Honor, and future Hall of Famer, Robert Mathis. Pat, AJ, and Robert chat about his time with the Colts, and why the changing of the culture was what killed the team, Robert breaks down the art of pass rushing and the different techniques he used to become one of the most feared pass rushers in NFL history, he chats about what Pat was like as a teammate and how he tried to buy stock in him early, his time at Alabama A&M and what being in the HBCU Hall of Fame means, and what he’s been doing now with his Gridiron Gang camps trying to teach players how to correctly pass rush in an incredible conversation (28:43-1:38:44). Lastly, former Green Bay Packers VP of Finance, Executive VP at Vayner Sports, host of the Business of Sports podcast, and friend of the show, Andrew Brandt joins the program. Pat and Andrew discuss the business of baseball and how he’s not sure if the result of the proposal is good lawyering or bad lawyering, why he and Pat both agree that the NFL will probably go off without a hitch given some sort of waiver that players will have to sign, they discuss how the salary cap will be affected by everything happening with Covid, and if that is why Dak Prescott is ultimately agreeing to the franchise tender, and why with the current climate of things, Andrew would not negotiate extensions with big name players like Patrick Mahomes because of all the variables (1:41:55-1:57:34). Don’t forget to send in your pictures of where you’re watching the show with the hashtag #ThisIsWhereImAtPat for the chance to win some free merch. Come and laugh with us, cheers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

hello it is tuesday june 23rd 2020 we got a great hey great show today if you like this show please tell a friend say hey you know what i like pat mike show 2.0 if you didn't like the show just act like whatever's about to happen never fucking happened. The MLB made a season 60 games to start on July 24th through July 26th with spring training 2.0 beginning July 1st. And the players have until today, Tuesday, June 23rd, until 5 p.m. to decide whether or not they're in or not. So there's a little bit of progress in the baseball world last night. What will the players say?

We'll talk about that on Thursday. Also, I believe Reggie Bush is coming on the show. Hi-yo! Great conversation to be had there. Let's get to it. Joining us now is a man who is an absolute legend in the McAfee household growing up. All of Pittsburgh loved him. He was a man at once in the NFL.

He played quarterback, wide receiver, tight end, offensive line, defensive line, safety, punt returner, kick returner, kicker, and punter. At college at Colorado, he's known for the Hail Mary to beat Michigan. Ladies and gentlemen, cordell stewart cordell what's going on i'm great man thank you so much for joining us no problem man i just you know i'm at the gym with my son i had to come back in his coffin corner back here uh to find a quiet spot so the noise you hear in the background i'm in the gym guys i'm in the gym well i would expect nothing less by the way one of the greatest athletes this world has ever seen um i don't want to this is kind of a weird question how old are you now cordo

i'm uh 47 years young damn damn i know thomas flobel had me how how ahead of your time do you think you were in the nfl do you ever think about that? You have to think about that. I would assume that is something that you have to think about. Man, you know, truthfully, being unselfish, it's a pleasure to see that scouts, commentators,

the fan base even, are really open and appreciative of just talented football players, right? Because sometimes we get so caught up into the tradition of what we think it should look like and should be to the point where guys who do have talent and can't play the position get left behind or even have to move and play other positions at one point in time

if they didn't have the coaches around to help these young men evolve. Because the game is about developing. You know, I'm coaching quarterbacks and receivers at the high school where my son goes. He's a cornerback. He plays receiver and kick returner. And what you learn as a coach is, you know, in little league, you're developing kids. Middle school, you're developing kids. High school, college.

When you get to the pros because of the business side of things, you sometimes automatically assume because monies and where you came from and things that you've accomplished up to that point, it should be like that throughout the duration. And sometimes guys don't have the

right trainers or can continue to train like they did during the off season when they came out of college but you sometimes hope you can get it while you're at the organizations and the only times you can get it is in those small spurts right you got otas you got the mini camps you got the big camps and the unfortunate is truthfully it's a business that's the unfortunate side of it on the National Football League level to where sometimes when it comes to developing, it kind of, you know, all the time kicks in, too.

Let's be transparent, right? All the time kicks in, too. But you just want to give these guys an opportunity, just like we saw with Steve Youngs, who was horrible when he was in Tampa. I think he went through the USFL run to then sit with Bill Walsh and sit behind Steve, behind the Joe Montanas of the world, and then became a Hall of Famer because he had a chance to sit and learn, and they were patient enough with him to give him that chance.

And now he has the yellow jacket because of the patience of the coaching staff. Let's talk about your story through this entire thing, because I assume that that is what you're referring to because when you came out of colorado do you think you weren't a good enough quarterback yet to be in the nfl jog my memory a little bit did you start out a wide receiver for the pittsburgh steelers or how did you how did it go um so to your first question when i was coming out of college i mean i had rick nuazzo as my quarterbacks coach my senior year uh i only lost i think three or four games throughout my career at university of colorado as a starter three years you know so my my work was what my

work was great i mean when you look back on it because sometimes when i watch the highlights when i watch you watch it on instagram sometimes because you know they oh yeah this legend things they do and sometimes they show some of the players that came through the institution that were great players. And I look at some of the throws I was making. I'm like, who is that guy? 75-yard bomb. That Hail Mary against Michigan was 75 in the air.

I mean, that was just next level. You know, you listen to the full-letter network, and they say 62 to 64 yards. I'm like, guys, that's 10 more yards, bro. I can't let you cut me short on where it left my hand. Even though they have the unofficial and the official distance, I say both of those distances were 74 yards in the air. Listen, as a punter, hey, as a punter, Cordell, I will let you know,

I very much understand that because we don't get any credit for the 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage that we punt the ball. It's only from the line of scrimmage. It's all BS. I'm on your side here. Yeah, I mean, you know, when you talk about your hip flexors and your hamstrings from punting the ball so much, you know, even though it was a 55-yard punt,

you know, what about when you're sitting back there extra 10 yards? You've got to give that to you because it came off the foot from that distance. They give it to the kickers, to you because it came off the foot from that distance they give it to the kickers cordell they don't give it to us they give it to the kickers the kickers from the spot they don't give it to the quarterbacks or punters that's why i've said quarterbacks and butters basically the same people yeah the same people and here's the thing they've changed so many rules i think of enough kickers and quarterbacks when it comes to making those throws complaining up i think we might get ours

changed too when it comes to the yardage. But, yeah, when I came out of college, quarterback was my thing. Lee Steinberg was my agent. There were conversations about if I would go to Canada, I could be a top pick in Canada. To him telling me he had Warren Moon as as one of his clients you know african-american quarterback uh who was a had a great arm i mean think about the yards he threw in canada it was unbelievable then came to the national football league and did another excellent job to where he ended up getting the yellow jacket because he was capable of enduring. But Lee gave me the visual of understanding that, you know,

are you committed to being a quarterback? I said, most definitely. So I go to the hula bowl, which was our senior bowl MVP. MVP and our actual team bowl game against Notre Dame. Went to the combine. I lit it up. bowl game against Notre Dame. Went to the combine. I lit it up.

And it went from me potentially being in the sixth round because they wasn't thinking about the mobile quarterback being a top draft pick like they are today to all of a sudden being a 60th pick overall going to the Steelers. Coming in behind quarterbacks like the late Steve McNair,

Kerry Collins, and Todd Collins. And then I was the fourth quarterback taken to the Steelers. And once Kerry Collins, and Todd Collins, and then I was the fourth quarterback taken to the Steelers. And once I got to the Steelers, as they asked me in my interview when I was at the Combine, if we needed you to help out somewhere else, would you? And what do you think I'm going to say, Pat? Of course I would.

Anything for the team to win? Anything for the team to win? Of course. You say the cliche thing, the diplomatic thing to to make sure you get an opportunity and honestly when i got there they didn't ask me to do the slash thing that ended up being something where neil o'donnell got injured mike tomczak had to come in we played against the detroit Barry Sanders broke Rod Woodson down tore his knee

to Charles Johnson he had an injury I mean they were tremendous and I think we were down like I think we were 2-4 at the time I'm helping out in practice on the scout team just doing whatever just to stay in shape instead of sitting back there being like a typical traditional quarterback doing nothing

I mean I'm just being transparent that sounded like some shots in your ass you know and so you know i helped and then before you know it neil o'donnell and i had a conversation i said neil you know i'm gonna start moving around as you're throwing the ball and we're warming up and as i was moving he was throwing it to me and all of a sudden he talked to ron he said corey you Corral, you think you could play receiver? And at that time, Neil was coming back. I was like, heck yeah, I could. I'm like, I'll do whatever it takes to help us win.

And before you know it, Chang Galey was my receivers coach. He became creative. Before you know it, I get a snap from the shotgun to throw the ball to Yancy Thig, pinning the flat against Cleveland Browns on Monday night, reverse the field, throw it to Ernie Mills in the back of the end zone. Myron Cope gets on the radio, said, Mm-ha, it's Slash. He comes out and he makes a great play.

Mm-ha. The guy slashed and dashed. He won. So it became a phenomenon, man. And it was arguably my best year, I would say, in football throughout my entire life because I got on the football field and played a game in the National Football League like we all did as kids, right? Growing up. I played quarterback.

I played running back. I played wide receiver and i even did your job i punted a couple times and so you know jack of all trades master at nothing but it helped us get to the next level and uh after that that's when it kind of transitioned to being a quarterback okay so let's talk about tasem hill because this seems like the closest thing because a lot of people that grew up in Pittsburgh, whenever we see Taysom Hill operate, we go, this is kind of what we were doing with Slash there for a little bit.

He's throwing the ball. He's getting big completions, wide receiver. Sean Payton has been very open. He's been, hey, we think Taysom Hill is going to be our quarterback whenever Drew Brees is done. Now they bring in Jameis Winston for a one-year, $1 million deal. Everybody's assuming Drew's going to be done after this year. What do you think about Taysom Hill whenever you watch him play,

and do you think he'll be able to follow in your footsteps to become a full-time quarterback? I mean, that remains to be seen, to be honest. You know, there will be that question mark of can he lead a team by being a full-time quarterback, as I in pittsburgh you know i thought it was they thought it was a joke you know that a guy who catches the ball this well who's one of the fastest if not the fastest on the team outrunning secondary players running across the middle better than some of our first round draft picks um then ask him to come in and play quarterback and need him to be accurate,

they didn't think it could work. Now, Taysom Hill has to prove that he can do it as far as being behind the helm, calling the plays, calling the shots, timeouts, managing the game, can he get the team to the playoffs, all of those things. We've seen it done once before. The question now, can he actually do it? And I think it remains to be seen for us being able to transition from doing all the different things

to then being just a full-time quarterback. And I'm going to tell you, depending on who's supporting Cass as far as the coaching staff and organization is concerned, I had a phone call come in. That's why I kind of blinked. Yeah, bill cowher or was that yeah it wasn't um you know it becomes one of those situations where you have to set the system up for him to gradually grow into it and and then as he finds his niche you know then i think you can then depend on it 100%. But I think he has enough ability, he's proven that,

to be able to play the game. It's just once just being a quarterback, that becomes the daunting task that's the unknown until we actually have an opportunity to see him do it. You know what's interesting to me is because whenever we got to see you play and how all the accolades you just read off about how fast you were and being able to throw a ball on a bucket, I mean, you led the Steelers to the AFC Championship game as a quarterback.

I mean, that is a tall task. Not a lot of people have done that. Did you expect maybe the mobile quarterback to get a little bit more rub early? Because Lamar Jackson is going to completely flip this game on his head. The Wildcat quarterback thing that Miami Dolphins tried, I think it was like seven years ago, eight years ago, that was just a fad and then it left. And now Lamar Jackson's kind of taking it to this next level

because he is the most athletic person on the field. Michael Vick there for a little bit. Obviously, he had a hell of a run. But do you think the game is evolving as you watch it? And it's like, you know what? Maybe I was just 20 years ahead of my time. I would have been the guy here. I think if you go back to college football and you watch the mobility of quarterbacks i don't care what their nationality is they're mobile nowadays yeah the speed of the defense

alignment are getting faster as we speak literally That is the future of our league, the kids that are coming up. And the way the game has changed when it comes to RPOs nowadays on the offense side of football. See, because when I played, we didn't do Wildcat. You know, it wasn't the RPOs. It was traditional one step on the one-yard line, throwing the fade route, three-step drop, five-step drop, seven-step drop, bootlegs, quarterback draws, all of that good stuff. And it was the traditional way of running a team. to bring in that RPO system in, run pass option,

to the point where the ability of the quarterbacks are putting them on the perimeter to utilize their skill set as a Lamar Jackson, even though it's not the RPO system. You have to watch that, though. You have to watch that and just be like, wait a minute. So I just have to, I got a fake run here, and I'm just reading the end. And if he crashes, I'm keeping, if not, I'm going, I mean that you have to watch it and just be like, damn it.

Why didn't we have this in whenever I was in Pittsburgh? You guys, but my thing is we didn't have to have it though. You know, in Pittsburgh, it was what we were doing. What's working. Hell yeah. Again, I'll give you, I'll give you this story. Hell yeah. And my, my career in Pittsburgh was controversial because no one was buying into it for the most part.

I mean, when it worked, everybody was happy. When it didn't work, on to the next guy. Plain and simple, right? So, Dick Hokey, the legendary coach, running backs coach that was there in Pittsburgh, Penn State guy, played for the Steelers, then coached for the Steelers. To Dan Rooney, the late Dan Rooney, who was like a father figure, so to speak. He was such a great man. To even Coach Cower. All three of these guys told me that if I would have played wide receiver, I could have gone to the Hall of Fame.

Now. Oh, boy. Right. Yeah. receiver i could have gone to the hall of fame now oh boy right so yeah when i hear this i'm saying to myself because we just talked about if i could have done all the rpo stuff i could have lasted i'm like i didn't have to do the rpo stuff we were running a traditional offense in two years out of this what the six years i was starting we went to the fc championship game the other years we were going back and forth from trying to figure out who the coordinator was going to be because you had five quarter coordinators out of five years out of

eight years and of my time being there i had mike malarkey ray sherman kevin gilbride mike malarkey again so and ronnie hart so i've had four out of some time. So when you have these conversations, you then say, okay, Coach Kyra said I was playing quarterback, but I was the best receiver on the field. I'm like, were they really bought in

to the great lengths to say, this is our guy, right? You know, this is who we're, don't say you gave me a chance and the only time it works by giving me a chance is when i'm playing great i'm talking about through the ups and the downs literally you know we're doing the you know the the the move the moving chairs of quarterbacks kent grahams and and so when you ask the question if we could have done that i could have lasted not in Pittsburgh because that's not what

they were looking for in Pittsburgh and we didn't even go that far to playing that style of offense we were doing a traditional thing and you know when I look back on it when leaving Pittsburgh before I went to Chicago you know the record was a winning record pass touch the touchdown interception ratio was was more touchdowns than interceptions and i'm like you know that style of quarterbacking could not have existed as long as it did for donovan mcdabb in philly under andy reed to what happened with michael vick to a russell wilson for the sake of conversation uh to uh deshaun watson okay um steve even steve young if you want to throw steve young in a comment Sean Watson. Okay. Steve. Even Steve Young. If you want to throw Steve Young in that comment.

Even Aaron Rodgers. I sometimes get disappointed with Aaron Rodgers because he doesn't run enough. Because he's so athletic. He is. By the way, there's a sneaky athletic dude right there, Aaron Rodgers. He'll get on the edge sometimes. He'll start high-stepping to around people. Then he'll unstrap the chin strap and just start smiling. But he needs to do it more.

But he needs to do it more. You know, he needs to do it more because he has the ability to do it. But Cordell, everybody says if you do that, you're going to get hurt. Everybody says that about Lamar. They're like, oh, Lamar's one hit away from getting hurt. Just put your chin strap on and put on your outfit and just. Oh, hell yeah. You can get hurt doing that, right?

Yeah. I mean, you can get hurt sitting at your locker trying to put your cleats on, catching a cramp in your hammy, and then trying to pull it out and you pull it. You know? It's like you – no. And I think until we get to the point where we have to understand in order – and I know Tom Brady and, if you will, the Peyton Mannings to – we could keep going to the Dan Marino's to the Jim Kelly's. You know, that was in the AFC where, you know, it's a copycat league. Right. So that style of quarterback is winning championships. What do you do?

You're going to try to find that kind of quarterback. But in the NFC, what were the guys that was actually getting it done? It was the mobile quarterback. So you random Cunningham so you had the Michael Vicks so you had the Donovan McNabs right yeah so it just kept on going Steve Young it just kept on going Jeff Garcia Aaron Rogers right it just kept on going in the NFC as far as the mobile quarterback in an AFC with the pocket passers so the game has evolved to where they're going to have no choice at some point in time to where out of 32 teams, Patrick Mahomes, he's a mobile quarterback. His football field he plays on is 60 yards. It's not 100. Because he can sling that thing wherever he wants to. Agreed.

Right? The other team's offense is at a disadvantage because there's no other quarterback that could sling it the way he does at any moment. Like, when you see him drop back and he scrambles, it's not as if the receivers that were going deep actually come back short and go deep again. They're steadily going deep. They're not coming back. I mean, when you throw it to Tariq Hill as fast as he is, the ball catches up with him, and he's a cheetah. So, I'm'm like you know the game has changed man and and i think the philosophy for me as a guy who played the game from the

pocket but had the ability to get outside of it um i'm i'm just glad the commentators the same guys who were saying it was a great throw to the mobile quarterback in the past, they're now saying today with the mobile quarterback, great pass. Right? You know what I'm saying? Back in the day, they used to say, such a great athlete. All right? To where actually, great movement of pocket and staying and making a phenomenon.

You know, it's a different dialogue. You just go back and watch some of the film. I watch it sometimes. It's hilarious. You know, because my ears are hypersensitive to it because I was the mobile quarterback. Well, and those were the things that were being said about you, I assume, in a bad way. Like, yeah, he can throw good, but is he a pocket pad? Like, that is too

that's a very interesting thing, the way to look at that. I never even would have thought of it. Right, because, you know, again, and then you'll have some that would say, you know it again and then you you'll have some that would say you know um he's disgruntled he's upset listen guys the game was played differently but we don't even talk about jeff blake anymore remember jeff blake in cincinnati yeah i do i didn't by the way until right then that moment that you just said right there, Jeff Blake.

Like, seriously, right? Like, the quarterbacks in that era, it was almost like it went from the Randall Cunninghams and the Steve McNairs to jump all the way over to the Michael Vicks. Right? There's nothing in between that's talked about when it comes to the mobile quarterbacks that played the game. And Jeff Blake was a mobile quarterback.

And he threw that moon ball to Day scott and carl pickings when we played in cincinnati to the point where it seemed like it went out of the stadium and came back in great throw touchdowns and so you know it's it's it's amazing how the game has evolved again and how you listen to the game. Because, you know, if you don't evolve as commentators, I mean, I think you lose your audience because we know what we're looking at. And I think nowadays they're doing a really good job. And the best thing about it is I'm still young. You know, I'm not old and decrepit. You know, I'm more, let's call it refined.

There you go. I'm refined. I'm working out with my son he's killing me you know and i'm trying to keep up with him he wants to beat me every time and now he's beating me and running out so um it's good to see the game evolving the way it's evolving and uh being able to cover it the way we do because it makes me excited you know to see these young players come out and play and see the Andy Reid still sticking to the guns of taking an incarcerated Michael Vick and bringing him in and making him the MVP of the league, the time in which he did, and letting him be himself. To the Sean Watsons, to the Russell Wilsons, to the Patrick Mahomes.

I mean, even the Andrew Lux, for the sake of conversation, before he retired. He was one of the most physical quarterbacks running the ball, which I think was part of his demise of not being in the game anymore because he ended up getting injured a lot. So, me, I love mobile quarterbacks. Yeah, you should. I love when the quarterback is the fastest on the field. I love it.

You know, because it makes your job easy, right? All you start doing is start pooch-putting. Hey, when we got, I had Peyton there for a while, and then we had Luck, and I was just like, all right, here we go. If it's third and less than four, let's assume Luck is going to run through somebody. Hold on one second. We've got to get to a break on radio.

We'll stay on YouTube. The radio, incredible conversation with Cordell Stewart. We'll be back in a second hour terrell davis will be joining us plus talking all other things happening in our magical world uh it's juneteenth look into it learn a little bit about it we're back on the other side this is the pat mcafee show cordell whenever we had luck that big son of a bitch, dude, when he started, hey, whenever he showed up, dude, he was as big as a defensive end. Dude, I'm telling you. And he could sling that thing.

But you're 100% right, though. The way that they talked about it was always like, this is a quarterback, this is a quarterback. And then whenever you get like a full mobile guy, it's always like great athlete playing quarterback. Great athlete. Yeah, it has been very interesting to watch it all change. I want to let you know this, Cordell.

You gave the McAfee family quite a thrill as children. I wish you were playing still to this day, and I can't thank you enough for joining us today, boss man. Yeah, no problem. This is my son. Let you see my son right here. Yeah, where's he going to school? Hey, what's up?

Hey, we're getting after some mitts right there. Mitt work. Aren't we jamming people we jamming people at the line yeah we uh we're doing a little doing a little corner we're doing a little corner work oh flip those oh come back hey he caught on a dime there cordell we got yeah he's faster than you you said he's uh he's pretty quick you know he's doing some good stuff He's pretty quick. He's doing some good stuff.

We got him going to the elite underclassmen camp next Saturday, which puts him in position to be a part of the future 50. Yeah. And also the All-American game. So Deion Sanders is going to be. He's a senior. He just turned 17 in May. Where's he going to go go? So he's young and where does he want to go? Does he want to follow your footsteps? Where do you guys live now? Are you in Colorado, California? Where you at?

Well, you know me I'm like I wanted to go at daddy If I had my choices you would be where he wouldn't go where I went so I just But you know, whatever they give him I'm ready to see him get it You know Well, hopefully there'll be another Hey, he's got a little hip flip there at Cordell. Huh? I mean, I guess he got it from his dad It's in there the coach right there almost hurting yourself Ladies and gentlemen, Cordell Stewart.

Thank you, Cordell. Appreciate you, man. Thank you so much. Yeah, guys. Anytime, man. You know how it goes, guys. It's all about, you know, sharing the love and just talking about the thing I love to do most,

which is playing football. And as we're on break just now, you saw my son out there getting a little work. And, you know, that's what it's all about for me man it's just it's seeing that young that young rascal getting in and hopefully allow that that dna to kick in at some point in time to where he can he can be his own little beast hopefully well i hope so you're a beast whenever i got a chance to watch you i hope that you stay in the game you're great at talking about it you're ladies and gentlemen, Cordell Stewart. Thank you, Cornel.

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You'll enjoy the hell out of them. Birddogs.com, promo code Pat. You get a free pair of nunchucks. Hoi! Hello, this is McPee and Hawk Sports Talk. Cannot wait to talk to our guest. First, on my far, far, far left, A.J. Hawk, the man with one of the greatest jawlines in the history of jawlines.

And in between us, a man who's in the HBCU Hall of Fame, a man who's now in the Colts Ring of Honor. He'll be in the NFL Hall of Fame momentarily. Ladies and gentlemen Robert Mathis Robert right before we went on air I asked have you and AJ ever met personally have not personally what do you think of it you think he stinks of football or what no he was he was a striker so I can I can appreciate a real striker dog on the field.

So great appreciation, respect. AJ, what was that called, the Cobra? You guys called it, what was it? You used your head? He said he never got a concussion, but he just threw his face into everything. Isn't that right? Oh, no, Kevin Green, he called it, everything started with a Cobra strike with Kevin Green.

When guys were rushing off the edge, head and hands. Oh, yeah, Eric Walden taught me that move. So it served me well. Eric Walden, he was a former Packer, came to the Colts. He used that move on a ref once, too. You remember that? That was it. Yeah.

Yeah. It didn't end too well for me. Eric is one of my favorite humans of all time. Yeah. Hilarious, man. All the time. Oh, he's the man. Ewald was coached, yeah.

Kevin Green coached him up. They had a great relationship. He, I mean, he, what a talented dude. Like I love playing with Ewald. He was always like, what a good teammate accountable. Like he had a lot of fun too, man.

He was awesome. Hilarious. People ask me who am I, who, who the most funny human I've ever been around in the football. Eric Walden is my answer every single time. They're like, who's somebody that people wouldn't expect to be funny.

I'm like, Eric Walden is one of the funniest motherfuckers i've ever heard in my entire life just everything he said was funny because of his country accent too and then high pitch i mean he was he was the man uh let's talk about you robert robert's here uh because he just got announced into the colts ring of honor it was big for you and i got the chance to see this both behind the scenes and whenever you're on the field you wanted to be a Colt through and through it felt like you were the depiction of what a Colt was for a long time so getting announced to go into the ring of honor has to feel pretty fucking cool yeah it

was pretty fucking cool that's a big deal though say so well grown people worries on here oh yeah yeah it was very humbling just to be able to go out on my own terms with one team for 14 seasons. So it was something that, you know, you don't sneeze at it. I'm very humbled by it, and I'm very loyal to the shoot. I don't think that's a secret. And I just can't wait to get it done. So you're going in November.

Do you know, is anyone else? How many people are in the Ring of Honor right now? Do you know? I want to say, like, I'm number 17. Hey, there's not a lot. Like, I know in Green Bay that thing is pretty well filled up because Green Bay Packers have been around forever. You've got to remember, the Colts,

there's a couple Baltimore Colts that are up there, but the Ring of Honor was not something that was used on a regular basis. It was like, okay, we'll wait until people really deserve it. And then whenever the Robert Mathis, Dwight Freeney, Peyton Manning, Dallas Clark, Reg, Marv, Bob, that whole crew became the winningest decade in NFL history, Jim Irsay was like, oh, brother, we've got to fill up that fucking ring of water. But you were coaching for the Colts last year, and Freeney won in. And I would assume, because you and Freeney became an absolute terror.

What was it, 93-98 bringing the Heat Boulevard? Absolutely, yeah. You got it right. Yeah, bingo. I wanted to make sure I didn't fuck up the branding there. But, like, whenever you saw Freeney go in, and I assume that was a hell of a feeling for you as well but then you look at all the other players did you think you were going to be the next

one that went in or were you not 100 sure oh by that by this point i was like i was sure at some point i mean i'm not going to trip on me going in now and later just as long as i get in that was my mindset but uh when dwight went in it was was special. It was surreal because, I mean, we did it together. We brought a lot of heat and, you know, killed a lot of quarterbacks together. So I was very happy for him. So it was a pleasure watching him go in. Robert, I always tell Pat about guys that, especially outside rushers, if you have guys that complement each other well,

and obviously you and Dwight Freeney, like your styles complement each other well like how do you did you think about that you guys talk about it how you would rush oh absolutely we always game plan even uh drop a lot of quarterback bait bait rushes and things like that but what is that oh well so for people that don't know because i think d-line is potentially something that not a lot of people learn about. Like Darius Butler and Antoine Bethea are launching a podcast together, two great DBs. Awesome. Awesome dudes, too. Awesome dudes, great defensive backs who were in the NFL a long time.

But you look at TV, there's not a lot of people breaking down defensive backs. Like there's not – quarterbacks, you've got a lot of that. Wide receivers, you've got a lot of that. Running backs, you've got a lot of that. Punters and kickers, there's none of that. That's why I knew there was a potential hole for that. But if you look at D-line and then in the secondary, there's not a lot of people that are breaking down the hows and whys things are happening.

And we're very much in a society now where people want to learn how and why things are happening in the ins and outs of it. What is like a bait rush or something like that? Okay. For example, we will say rock bait. That means the running back is on my side. He's going to chip me. The center is going to slide to Dwight.

So, therefore, Dwight is going to run away from everybody around the horn, and I'm going to run away from his running back. So, we're going to waste the running back and the center, so they're not blocking anybody. So, I'm going to take an early inside move so the quarterback sees me do that and he thinks he has an escape route to my outside shoulder. Now

Dwight Freeney comes around, separates him from the football. I scoop it. Everybody wins. See, that's a level of football that I had no fucking idea was happening. And you see those plays happen on Sundays, Mondays, Thursdays in America, Canada, Europe, wherever we're playing, Mexico, wherever you're playing.

You see things like that, and you're like, oh, that's athletes making plays out there. It's like, no, actually, there was an entire chess setup to this entire thing that was going on. Chess, not checkers. It's insane. Well, that's the thing.

Like that's when you watch it. I mean, Robert and Dwight are, you guys are rare. You're very unique. You guys can kind of do everything, but a lot of times you can't have a guy that's primarily like a bull rusher on both sides.

Like one of them has got to be a speed guy. One of them has got a bull, make the quarterback step, either try to escape the pocket or step up. Like I saw that with, uh, could be your bunch of be aow when he was in Green Bay my first two or three years.

Kabir and Aaron Kampman. Kampman's more of like a power bull type guy. Kabir will run the horn, and they set each other up beautifully. Like that's when I truly saw like, oh, okay, these guys are setting each other up the whole time, and they work out perfectly together. Robert, when I talk to you, I'm going to talk this way because the camera's right here.

Just know that I'm talking to you. I'm talking to your face on the screen over there, okay? So when you were drafted, okay, everybody knows, you started out in special teams. You were a kickoff stud there for a while. Then you kind of found a rhythm, and then you started taking over at pass rusher, not defensive end. Yeah, check yourself. Yeah, get right. Yeah.

You're not a defensive end. You're a pass rusher. But whenever you started finding, was there people you watched? Because I don't think there was anybody like Robert Mathis before Robert Mathis said pass rusher. Was there? Not a whole lot. I like to say Dwight and myself, we kind of ushered in the smaller,

quicker guys. Besides, I would say the only guy I could really think of was like Corey Moore. But he wasn't around for a long time. But it was John Tierling, he wanted fast guys off the edge. And so whatever we did well, he allowed us to do it. And then that just – he just let us play our brand of football. And it worked out. Yeah, I'd say.

Hey, Robert, I know you made the transition when chuck pagano came in didn't you make that transition from like a 4-3 dn to 3-4 outside backer a lot of people think that's not a big deal but there's not a whole lot of guys that can actually do that hey we were just talking about this we were literally just talking about this as soon as we came in there i'm gonna first off i love chuck So now let me get into this. So moving from defensive end, three-point stance to a two-point stance and seeing way too much. And now about half the time you're telling me to drop, go this way, versus going that way to the quarterback.

It was something I had to wrap my mind around it. I had to get used to it. So that first year was teaching, learning, and all the above. The second year, I got used to it, learned my sight lines, and learned how to make

calls. As a DN, you're not making calls. You just go. As an outside linebacker, you're giving calls. Now you can identify for when the linebacker say, I gave the call and the D-line say, I didn't hear anything. Bullshit. You heard me.

I gave you the call, you know. So now it was – the 2013 was statistically my biggest season of my career, 19 and a half sacks. And that was as an outside rush linebacker. So, hey hey i appreciate it greg and uski hey salute stakes on me so but uh just uh be able to adjust on the fly and just kind of be humble enough to learn uh to do something that you're not used to doing man you got a cigar oh he's just you're just gonna do that do you want a cigar hell yeah we got a bunch of cigars somebody here right now but uh

it was it was it was a great experience and uh it just worked out on either side that otas was awesome to watch though and that was those otas were so much fun oh no they were so much fun the amount of confusion the amount of conversation that was taking place there was a lot of these mother there was a lot of there was a lot of conversations happened by everybody but that year we had freeney was only freeney was getting 17 mil a year i think that year and everybody was talking about oh he's gonna get cut he's gonna get cut but ursa was like hey freeney's my guy robert mathis is my guy he had him freeney was on the sideline first and second down mostly you are now transitioning into an outside linebacker i mean there was a lot in to stick with it and to

have that the ability to be like hey i will learn how to do this for the betterment of everything or moving forward like that's not something that most superstars have and i think that's why every human that ever played with you was like, hey, Robert Mathis is one of the realest dudes I've ever been around in my entire life. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was, like I said, it was something we had to get used to. We both were used to hauling ass upfield towards the quarterback.

Winning Super Bowl. Yeah. Like, been to the top there, dude. Yeah, yeah. But team, team, team, you know. It was all said and done. Why do you think some guys can't make that transition?

They're not athletic enough? They're not willing? What is it? No, I think it's the latter. They're just not willing. Guys get stuck in their ways now. I was one of them. I sat and toyed with the idea of like, man, I'm looking at this guy dropping in coverage a whole lot.

And you're asking me to do the same thing, and I'm not. I don't get paid for that. And so the arrogance and the ego kind of creeps in, and so that kind of blocks. It stunts the growth of a lot of guys. Well, in a business sense of it, because there's incentives for, I assume, for me, there's average incentives and net incentives. And it's like, okay, you want me to kick the the ball shorter but you're literally telling me you're gonna pay me an extra two million dollars if i take the ball further there's a little bit of a balance i assume for defensive end outside linebackers like if you get this many sacks then we'll pay

you an extra four million dollars it's like okay well i'm gonna try to okay i mean i will but wait up yeah that's that has to be a fine balance. And why did the second year in that scheme set you up to have 19 and a half sacks? What was it about that scheme that made you like more of a weapon, baby, rushing the passer? Well, for those that understand the 3-4, the under defense, we were 4-3, but we just stood up. So I was a Sam backer 2012.

Dwight was the rush backer. So the name kind of fits the bill. The rush backer rushes the quarterback more times than the Sam. So I had to, I said, okay, another funny story. Chuck Pagano. So I'm looking at film of the Ravens. So I'm looking at Double J and Suggs. I said, okay, so who do you want me to be?

Okay, I want you to be Double J. Okay, and so Dwight is Suggs. Now, I know Suggs rushes the passer a lot. I said, okay, how do you determine who gets to play the rush and who gets to play the Sam? He's like, well, my rush is my best pass rusher so I said okay listen listen Robert so so so so so let me get this straight so I'm just trying to get clarification so you want me to play Sam linebacker Dwight is your rush linebacker and you said your reason for that is because your best rusher is going to play rush.

And so the arrogance in me, I said, oh, okay. Oh, so this motherfucker just took a shot at me, right? But no, but if anybody knows me knows that I'll put Dwight against anybody all time as far as pass rushing. I think he's one of the top ever. So, you know what? I'll take that. I'm okay. Just make sure you call a lot of blitzes

Greg Minuski and we'll be okay I just need to get at least 15 good solid rushes a game so I'll be okay but no that was a good funny story I know Chuck remembers it but those are things that you remember throughout your life so you moved to rushbacker that next year

whenever Franny went on so Dwight went on with the Chargers and they moved me to the rushbacker and they moved me to the Rushbacker, and they brought in Eric Walden. So he taught me the Cobra Strike technique, and so I started learning how to play the run a little better. My second year in the outside backer scheme, and he helped me a lot with that.

That's awesome. 19 and a half sacks is nuts. Yeah. You were a leader? Yeah, you were. Yeah, that year. And then there was Quinn. Right, didn't Quinn have like.

He had 19. Yeah, because you two were rushing, right? You two were racing. And we became the best of friends that year. You know, we kind of give each other a little shit about it. Because I had a sack added on that I had to get checked by Elias. And that threw me ahead of him going into the last game of the season. And he was pass rushing like a madman.

I'm watching him. I'm like, just block his ass. We have a lot of fun, a lot of jokes, and a lifetime friendship behind it. A lot of sex. Was that when he was on the other side of Chris Long? Yeah. They were humming.

Jeez. Hey, Rod, what was Pat like? What was it like having Pat on your team? How annoying was he at times? You know what? I always thought he was funny. It's just at the wrong time, he was still funny. So I think that's a question you really got to ask Reggie Wayne.

Oh. But I knew from the jump i'm not sure he told everybody this story but i knew he was going to be something like a damn rock star in his post-football career and i tried to buy in early he would not let he thought i was joking when i was not i said look let me how do i do this how do i get in on this i know you're going to be something outside of football because you, you did his comedy. It's just, everything about it was just too funny.

Everybody was cracking up and, and all of that type of stuff. So I like, I want to get in. I'm looking at opportunity, man. He's a businessman now, but at that time,

like it was, uh, so in a wrestling business, a guy named Rusev, right? There's a guy named Rusev who was brought into Vince McMahon's, uh, office.

And he told the story the other day. And Vince McMahon said, hey, Rusev, you're going to be wrestling against Undertaker, which is like the biggest star of all time. And Rusev basically told Vince McMahon, like, oh, yeah, okay, go fuck yourself. Like he thought he was joking, right? Like he didn't think he was serious. He didn't take it. He was like, there's no way.

That's kind of how I was whenever you said you wanted to. I'm like, hey, Robert, get the fuck out of here, okay? I don't need your shit right now, Robert, all right? I was serious. Well, there's still room, by the by the way there's still time but you are a businessman now you're running these aj this is one of the coolest things i've seen in a long time actually he set up this uh it's called gridiron gang and you started out as just pass rushers and d-line but now you're evolving into all these things it's like specialty training for these guys who are college high high school, and pro. And I love watching the business grow over there

because you're a guy who had every single tool. Your hand work was great. You were able to power. You were able to spin. And now you're kind of giving back to the game. I think this is a really good move by you. Yeah, it's something I enjoy. If you know me, you know I just like to stick to what I know.

I tried the coaching thing. it didn't fit me. It didn't. AJ, you didn't enjoy the coaching schedule. Yeah, what part didn't fit you? The coaching hours. It was brutal. But just being out there with the fellows, I was able to wean off the game by doing what I love. And that's teaching pass rush.

And so now I just enjoy being out there so much that it's not it's not even a job to me and uh you got high school grade school guys and you'll be amazed a lot of a lot of them they just don't know what's going on they don't know how they don't know what to do so and I was a little angry because a lot of coaches just weren't teaching it right and you know when it comes to pass rush I'm I'm I'm a little angry because a lot of coaches just weren't teaching it right. And, you know, when it comes to pass rush, I'm a little anal about it. If you're not doing it right, I'm going to let you know it. And so this is my passion. And my partner, Dan Muir.

And now we have Nick Hartwick. You know Dan? Yeah, I played with Danny Greenback. Dan Muir. And we got Nick Hartwick, former Chargers standout, Pro Bowl, All-Pro guy. He's leading the O-line charge. And we got a good thing brewing over here, man, over in Westfield, Indiana. And so we just got it going.

And so anybody, grade school on all the way up to the pros, they want to get some O-line, D-line, pass rusher, and pass protector. I mean, that's unbelievable. You're disrespecting the pass rusher. Yeah, I i mean that's unbelievable disrespecting the pass yeah so yeah i was about to jump across the table but uh yeah just come on out and i'll reach out to us and uh we get it we get it get it going the right direction hey robert you ever see those videos online every once in a while they'll show like a clip i think i mentioned to pat before of like a high school camp and they'll be like oh no they'll act like this this outside rusher

killed a kid in a pass rush when all he did be like, oh, they'll act like this outside rusher killed a kid in a pass rush when all he did was bull rush them when they're not wearing helmets or pads. For me, I'm like, all right, who's coaching these dudes and who's telling him this is a good job when you're bull rushing a guy with zero, with no pads on and it's one-on-ones too? Yeah.

There's that underwritten rule that you don't bull rush when you don't have pads on. But long arm is not a bull rush. I know that you don't bull rush when you don't have pads on and uh but long arm is not a bull rush i know i know that you know that we can long on but no bull rushing no putting your helmet under or whatever but uh yeah i hate saying that because if when you're not in shoulder pads and you know in pads period now you you got to let the skills kind of set the tone it's about working on your skills your timing your hand-to-hand combat, things like that. It's not about trying to bull rush a guy that you know is not prepared for that.

Hey, skill not scheme. Yeah, we are the skill not scheme team. Hashtag. Hashtag. Skill not scheme. There you go. Because in every craft, by the way, that counts. scheme there you go i see because in every craft by the way that counts because even if you get dropped into a uh pass rush uh linebacker a rush linebacker or you're a full-time pass rush as long

as your skills are there it doesn't matter where you're playing what school what strategy anything like that you're good to go yeah and we came up with that because we always say whether it's a 4-3 or 3-4 a 3-33 stack, a 3-2 defense, if you have the skills, you can thrive in any scheme. I kind of well, just going from a 4-3 with the Colts for the first nine years

to my last five years in a 3-4, I've learned enough pass rush to be able to thrive. That's something that I want to teach the younger guys. Don't just curl up and die because you moved to a different scheme. Still get your

tools sharpened. Get your skills up because third down is universal. We want four down guys. Seven guys, you get out the way. This four, we got it. Let us go get it. And a lot of money. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Because the most important position in football it out the way. This four, we got it. Let us go get it. And a lot of money. Yeah. A lot of money.

I'm glad you said that. Because the most important position in football, outside quarterback, is pass rusher. You follow the money trail. Franchise tags, follow the contracts. It is pass rusher. I challenge anybody to debate me on that. Hey, I won't. I'll wait with my good mountain

water. You guys trained with knives like Aaron Donald did? No, I ain't doing all that. We put boxing gloves on, and we do a lot of reps, boxing MMA-style type training. I did that a few years back early in my career, so it really helped me. I just tried to incorporate it in all my training along with what John Tilling taught me. Your hand, JT, by the way, rest in peace.

What a legend of a human. The greatest D-line coach of all time. Hey, also might be the most legendary human to ever coach in football in the history. The things that that guy was able to do with beer off the field was one of the most impressive. That's where he and I shared stories, which was very nice of him. The things that that guy was able to do with beer off the field was one of the most impressive. That's where he and I shared stories, which was very nice of him. But that crew, that whole defensive line crew underneath JT was like a brotherhood, a fraternity. It was.

Rest in peace to JT, a guy who has done a lot for the Colts that people probably didn't even know about that. But whenever you get in there, you do a lot of hand stuff. It's a lot of hand work. When did you really start honing in? You said you did some of the MMA's, boxing stuff. But the hand work, I feel like, is almost the most important part of this whole thing. It is. And I will say, of my generation, DeMarcus, he kind of shed a lot of light because he was real good doing the hand-to-hand during his pass rushes.

But, man, I'm six feet. I played at six feet, 235 pounds. Sometimes you just can't, you're not going to be able to run around guys all the time. You just can't spin on guys all the time. They sitting there waiting on that. So now you got to use their weight against them. If I got a 320-pound offensive lineman going a particular direction i'm gonna keep him going that direction i'm not gonna try to power him and do something that i'm not i'm gonna hit him with precision

strikes not not it's not about how hard you hit anybody it's about where you hit him and i think anybody in the uh mma world knows this boxing world is you catch somebody right on the chin he's gonna go to sleep you can punch him right in the jaw. He may eat that. But you catch him right on the chin, he's going to sleep. And as far as pass rush play, strikes to the sternum, consistent strikes to the sternum, inside tit, outside tit, running the door open, and controlling the wrist. When did you learn that, though?

Like, DeMarcus Ware brought that in. But then did you just have to, have to try these all in game? No, I watched them a lot. Oh, wait a fucking minute, though. Hold on. This just reminded me of you at practice. AJ, AJ, I want to tell you and show you a move that Robert Mathis did on poor fucking Anthony Costanzo

in training camp, okay, in training camp. You were coming back from, this is after the Achilles, wasn't it, I believe? No, it was 2013, the year before. Okay. So training camp happens. One-on-ones. First day of one-on-ones with pads. Offensive line, defensive line.

Poor fucking Costanzo's out there, okay? He's out there on an island all by himself. Robert hit him with, I think, a triple spin move in fact cassandra does like the whiff into the sky thing and robert just walks it i think you hit him with a boom like a fake thing then another one and then all the way back inside and just walk to basically the flag that was the quarterback like this and castanzo is over there motherfucking everything that you could ever see in the history so i think the precision strikes do work. I would assume that they do work.

But there also has to be an incredible fear of the fact that you could get embarrassed out here on an island as well. How did you know that? What's that? About that move. How did you remember that? Because he didn't have anything to do at practice. He was watching one-on-ones.

It was fun to watch. Whoa, whoa. Hey, Jay. I'm down over here. I didn't miss that. do at practice. He was watching one-on-ones. It was fun to watch. Whoa, whoa. Hey, Jay. I'm down over here. I didn't miss that. I did have nothing going on that day. I got my six minutes of work, and I'm going to hang on. Let's preserve the leg.

And any time they say there's one-on-ones happening, I did kind of mosey my way over there. Yeah, that's impressive because most – the kickers and punters and the long snappers, they're golfing by that time. See? Not me. Look at that.

You were committed, man. My golf game was terrible. You and the OG, the greatest ofing by that time. See? Not me. Look at that. You were committed, man. My golf game was terrible. You and the OG, the greatest of all time, AV. Vinny was not about that, by the way. Stover came in there. You know when Stover came in, whenever Vinny was hurt, that was my rookie year. He was a little bit different. He had a very different style.

He was very nice to me, but he had a different style about everything. The way he went about his every single day life, very successful. Vin but he had a different style about everything like the way he went about his every single day life very successful vinny was just very different vinny was a football player that kicked the ball right so getting a chance to kind of be with him i think was a very lucky situation for me like very awesome i love that dude yeah me too that's big bro right there he struggled last year because he was fucking banged up i'll be excited to see what he does yeah yeah i'm rooting for him that's my that's big brother right there one of the most competitive humans on earth i don't know if he'll ever stop probably won't i don't think he will i don't anticipate

him stopping me neither like everybody's questioning whether or not he's going to come back and kick this upcoming year i if i have not talked to him because i don't want to know because i don't have a filter and i speak into a microphone every day so i don't want him to give me an information i think he's back next year without a doubt i think it's it's a little bit of he he has an alpha male that top dog mentality i'm not going out like that yeah i'm i'm going to exhaust every opportunity i have to come back and and and just redeem myself so i i think that's where he is right now it just he doesn't have to because he's the greatest of all time. Hall of Famer.

I understand. I understand. I won't be mad if he did or didn't. Hey Pat, why don't you show Robert you told me a couple days ago on the show you have five pass rush moves. Why don't you stand up and give him a shot and see what Robert thinks. I learned them mostly from

you. He said he has a full compliment. up and give him a give him a shot and see what robert thinks i learned him mostly from you see it my go-to is obviously i'll do a little different way okay okay okay okay got it oh you see that okay see the hand precision strike more grip okay you're not really turning your body at all though there's not enough room on the stage you know i'm a bit... You've seen these quads on the internet yesterday. I don't know if you saw them. There's a lot. You see that? You don't have to get skinny when you stay skinny.

No, I don't. The Air Force Ones is not doing any justice for you right now. What do you mean? Yeah, you're slipping. You know, you've got to have some good footwork and stability and gravity. I would not take that Air Force One. He's one of my go-tos in the middle of everything.

I also obviously have the bulrush here. Oh, see that? See that? You obviously have the bulrush hair. Oh. See that? See what I just did there? You're about to mess up your hair. Don't do that. No, I can't do that. Yeah.

And then I also have the swim. Woo. See that? That's the right move. You lift your arm up as high as you possibly can. See, stay right there. That is a violation because you're exposing your whole rib cage. No. Here. Oh whole rib cage. No.

Here. Oh, right here. Here. Excuse me. You just want to clear the shoulder. That's what I did back in my day when I was Russian. Reduce blocking surface, man. Well, when I was Russian pastors in the NFL,

we were able to do this because the offensive line was still smoking. That whole thing. And then, obviously, I have to spin. Oh, my God. Cyclone. That was actually the best one yet. Thank you. I'll to spin. Oh, my God. Cyclone. That was actually the best one yet. Thank you. I'll take that.

Thank you. And let's not forget about the ice pick. I will bury an ice pick right in the chest of an officer. There you go. Do you know what that is, AJ? Ever heard of it? Yeah, I've heard it called other things, but yeah. So what have you heard?

Do it again, Pat. Let let me see let's chop spin oh oh yeah there wow finish that nice you finish that like in the neck like you ice picked him in the neck not not in the rib cage well precision shot bro right Pat I think you should add the fake spin. Oh. What are you saying? Add the fake spin. Fake spin. No, that was a real spin. No, you should add the fake spin. No, add that to the repertoire.

Yeah, add it. The fake spin, come back around. I don't know if I'm athletic enough to do that. Do you remember when Freeney was on Sports Science? Yeah. Oh, I do. He said that his spin move was as fast as a figure skater. Yeah, that was funny.

That was pretty good. That was a rough morning. We were all so pumped for freeney to be on sports science here we go he did the whole shoot and then we watched it and that scientist was like he's spinning as fast as a figure skater spins in the olympics and they got freeney spinning and a lady in a tutu spinning right next to him this is tough for old freeney yeah that was that was that was an experience. How do you feel? We're going to change the topic here.

This is a serious topic. You just went into the HBCU Hall of Fame. Right. A lot of conversation right now about players potentially entertaining the thought of going to an HBCU school as opposed to a PWI, which is a predominantly white institution. Just learned that yesterday from Darius Butler and Antoine Bethea. How do you feel about that? And what was your experience at Alabama A&M? It was the only college experience I had.

So it was – my college experience was second to none. Just the atmosphere and – but I will say as far as being – people are just making assumptions that because of the level, it's not even just HBCU. Ball is just D2, D1, AA, what we used to call it, that we didn't have the talent. We didn't have A, B, and C to be able to compete with guys from the PWIs, the Georgias, the Alabamas, these type schools. And so, I mean, there's always a chip on your shoulder. It just lets everybody know that. I mean, we played a chip on your shoulder it just lets everybody know that I mean

we played a good brand of football where we are too and as far as the the current climate I think it's more that's more of a form of silent protest and we just we're just trying to figure out okay when is it a good time to to be? Because it ultimately boils down to you're not listening. So we need to figure out a way to get your attention. And that's another way. And the main way to do that is to hit people in the pockets. And so that's ultimately how I see it. That'd be so interesting.

Because you prove your worth right there, right? It's not proving your worth, but you're showcasing your worth. If some big-name basketball players, high school basketball players, instead of going to Duke, North Carolina, or go to an HBCU school, that team is automatically probably going to get into March Madness. That team is going to have cameras on. It's going to have business. If you have five, six top players in the country doing that,

I mean, there can be a real shift in power. And I don't think a lot of people fully understand that that are outside of the sports world. They're like, no, it only takes a few guys in basketball. In football, it's going to take a lot more, but basketball for sure. Make it – I'm a fan of it. I'd root for it, but I want it to be done with the right intention. It's not doing it just.

I don't know. It's just you just have to do the do things the right way. You don't want to go out there just if a kid doesn't he doesn't really want to go to this school. He's just doing it because he's made to. It's not going to work. It has to bring it has to be a sense of pride and understanding that if you don't respect us enough to hear our concerns and pleas, then you don't deserve to have us around here making money for your institutions and things of that nature.

And it's just being heard. Grambling didn't watch my film. I sent them two films. They never watched it. Because I think it was Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving, Grambling always played... Southern. Yeah, Southern. It was always on national TV.

I saw it. I watched it. I thought Grambling had an incredible logo. And the only Caucasian person on the entire team was always the kicker. So I was like, I'll send a tape out of Grambling for sure. Let's check it out. Never watched my film, AJ. Never watched my film, not once Never watched my film not once.

I'm shocked. I'm shocked to hear that. But, Rob, what is Tony Dungy like as a coach? I see him on TV. He's like one of the most respected guys on the planet. And I have so much respect for him. I wonder what he was like when he was in front of the team. With Coach Dungy, what you see is what you get.

He wasn't any different off the camera. Matter of fact, he's a leader of men. He didn't just coach. He taught you life lessons and stuff, how to incorporate it to your career, your life, your family, and your friends. And yeah, he was very religious with the aspect, but he didn't force religion on you. So I consider him like he's the top head coach. He's number one to me. And so I'm always in a lot of the lessons he taught, no excuses, no explanations.

I'd use that now to date. So almost every day, actually. And he's just teaching you the value of not using excuses and uh just get the job done aj tony dungy i got there after tony dungy i was at jim caldwell his first year but the the effects of tony dungy ran through that entire building for years and years i've never seen anything like that. I mean, that guy was, everybody talked about him. Yeah. As advertised.

Yeah, legit. He came on our show whenever the, it was a couple weeks ago. It was after Drew Brees. It was after Drew Brees' comment. So he was scheduled to come on our show the day after Drew Brees made his comments. But he was already scheduled, so he didn't, I assume, because he works at NBC now, right? So, and Drew Breesuce supposed to work at nbc it was just so tony dungy came on and the conversation we had was just like one that just everybody could it was he's a powerful man i'd never met him before that though that was my

first time absolutely uh and that was a classic tony dungy rebuke he's not gonna yell at you he's not gonna curse at you he's not gonna do any at you. He's not going to curse at you. He's not going to do any of the above. He's just going to come right down the line, right down the middle with it, right or wrong or indifferent. I mean, he deserves the opportunity to right a wrong if you feel like he made a wrong and let it be done. You don't right anybody off. You don't burn bridges. So that's classic Tony Dungy.

You don't write anybody off. You don't burn bridges. So that's classic Tony Dungy. Who's a teammate of yours that you thought, this guy is just a different specimen of a human? For me, Peyton Manning. That dude was a robot. He was a complete different animal.

I have never seen any human like him. I never will see another human. Just his, the way he, I mean, he ran shit. And everybody in that building knew that that's what Peyton was doing. I mean, it's just, he was somebody I never understood as a human. Yeah. I would say just – I'd say Marvin Harrison because he never took practice off. And that's what we kind of learned. You practice how you play.

It went from Marv to Reggie to myself. And so I just kind of learned how to be a pro in that manner. But Marvin Harrison would eat honey buns, donuts, ribs, buffalo wings, and all this bad stuff. Would not gain an ounce. He probably looks the exact same right now. But he would eat the worst out of everybody and go out and burn DBs to crisp. And so I never understood that. He would would come in he won't say much but yet he was approachable he was just like it was he was just hard to figure out but he was he was a very cool og and it was like man

how are you able to eat buffalo wings right before the game we've talked about this a couple times. That food the night before games with the first regime. And then when the nutritionist got in. I mean, it was a whole different world. I felt like I didn't appreciate the first couple years of my career enough whenever I was in it. Wait, did they take away ice cream and stuff?

Yes. They snatched all of it. We was about to protest that shit. What are we doing? There was a lot of conversations, AJ. I mean, there was – because I was the youngest of the people that came from both regimes. So I never really had – like, for instance, my rookie year,

whenever we decided to lose the last two games, OGs were not happy about that decision but i was too young i was not able to make it i was not allowed to have an opinion at that point but that was something i remember a lot of the ogs being like we have a chance to potentially be a part of history yeah yeah yeah yeah no granted we lost to the saints anyway which would have ultimately ended that but that was a decision that was not well received in the locker room. Hey, Pat, but was that decision, was it made with the coaches and players talk about it, or did it come from the top?

No, that's from the top. It was from the top. Caldwell took a whole lot of heat over that one, but that was over his head. I remember, AJ, I was so confused on what the fuck was going on because that last game I had like a $1.5 million bonus on the line, and everybody was having the time of their life on the sideline at that point because the first week against the Jets when they subbed everybody out and put everybody back in like Mighty Ducks line change basically,

and everybody was like upset about it. The fans weren't happy obviously the player we were 14 and 0 we got booed booed the fans were booed yeah it was and i was still trying to figure out how to punt at that point and i had a lot on the line so then in the locker room during the week the conversations are always like man why are we doing this but then it got to sunday we're in buffalo a blizzard comes you remember that fucking blizzard game it was a foot and a half snow right it was wild i had the more money on the line on that game than i'd ever had in my entire life and everybody that i was like friends with and hanging out with we're all having like a pre-season fucking

session on the sideline peyton was throwing out he had he threw out i think 15 um armbands that game a die was just chilling i mean everybody that I talked to was just on the sideline chilling. They're like, man, it's colder. I'm like, not as cold as it's going to be if I don't get this fucking million and a half bucks. Can you guys please stay away from me? But that was a decision that was, I think, still to this day, probably one that you guys look back on and go,

16-0 would have been cool to be a part of. Yeah, and you know, and I'll just keep it 100. It was always trying to get that one up on the Patriots. We wanted to go forward and kind of run the tables of the playoffs and win the Super Bowl.

Obviously, we lost to the Saints, but to have an undefeated season when they fell short in the Super Bowl, it was, you wanted, you just wanted that extra, you know, F you, you know?

Yeah, absolutely. Is that why Tom Brady didn't become a Colt, you think? think man i don't want to talk about that hey you had a tweet that said some whenever the there was a conversation about him potentially coming right it was like i think you said that that would be a tough one that would be a tough one to get over and it's not and it's not just the old rival aspect. It's just, I couldn't wrap my mind around that, you know. But I think Phil Rivers is, I personally think he's the better option because I feel like he wants our Super Bowl. He wants his first Super Bowl, and he's hungry.

And you can feel the energy that he brought to the city. So, trust me, I love Tom Brady. You know, I got to meet him at the Pro Bowl or whatever. You hate to love him, just like at the time I hated to love Phillip Rivers. Because, you know, you get in the game, these guys are highly competitive, and they're quarterbacks, so I hate quarterbacks. But now Phillip is my quarterback, so hey, rock on. But I just feel like

Phillip, he brings the energy to the city and I think sky's the limit for this team. What about the Patriots? There's a big Patriots fan in the office. I don't know if he's still... Is Connor here today? He's right crop top, isn't he, Robert? What do you think the Patriots are going to be like

now that Big Tom left town? I don't care. They can actually go die. I don't care. No, Robert. That's how I feel. Do something. Do something, crop top.

I'm okay. I'll see you guys later. I had this. I forget where we were. I forget where we were. I forget where we were. We were somewhere. Somebody was saying something to you, the crowd,

like in the first or second row, was saying something about like, I think the one guy was so drunk, you did something. He said, hey, I'm going to kick 98's ass or something like that. And I like stopped.

I was on the sideline. I obviously didn't have much to do. And I turned around and I was like, is that right? Like, is that really what is this gonna happen like I am pumped up about this and then I started listening to this entire thing you were potentially the most intimidating human I'd ever seen in my entire life the first time I saw you and I've told this story before you were jumping rope in the gym you had these the old school headphones the big joints yeah

you had old school headphones and you just went and i think you jump rope for it might it felt like it was 75 minutes straight like you just didn't even skip a beat it was just like boom boom boom boom boom and you didn't say much you didn't talk to us the rookie like because it was the entire rookie class we were kind of getting shown around or whatever and i was like well goddamn who is that guy you know like that's robert mathis and i was like all right let me google oh my fucking god so then that was the moment where i was like me and that guy are on the same team at this moment i probably need to become much tougher here but you were like the consummate teammate like in the locker room guy that would lift everybody up come talk to everybody rookie year i had a couple bad games you even were

one of the people that came and talked to me like it was i think you don't get enough credit for being because you're normally a quiet guy in the locker room you and dwight freeney kind of set the tone on how superstars should act amongst your your teammates how like why was is that how you always were or when you were young did you see somebody do that like what was that all about well i'd never like bullies per se so that i always kind of i don't like guys that mistreat other guys just because they can or they have the status to do that so i'm gonna treat a man like a man uh until you don't don't have my respect anymore so but i never just went went out just trying to shit on anybody else.

We're the same team, and I want to win. So we have a rookie kicker. He's supposed to help us win. So, hey, man, get your shit together. Then we'll go grab a beer later. That old group, the hazing thing, I heard about other teams, what they did. You guys were not like the Colts. Were you guys like that at the Packers? Did you guys do any hazing or anything?

Not at all. Yeah, nothing happened, really. Yeah, Dungy didn't play that. He was like, no, these guys are here to help us win, and we don't need any foolishness to kind of get derailed off our mission. And Caldwell took that same approach. I think Adai told me. He was like, at some point,

we're going to need one of you guys to make a play for us to win. And if we win, I'm happier. Everybody else is happier. So I don't know why we would want you to hate us by hazing you going into the season. Yeah, that's good. It was a real conversation. I was like, yeah, why are – because there was photos coming out of people getting these terrible hair. I think Tebow's eyebrow got shaved and everything.

The fryer cut. Yeah, and I was like, man, I am so happy you guys don't do that to us. I am so happy. No, the extent of it was bringing food on the plane and rookie dinner. We're going to get you then. Yeah, true. Those planes were awesome. That first regime, that first group.

Oh, yeah. It was awesome. Wait, what changed from the first regime to the second? How do I describe everything? Ryan Griggs. I am not. I'm not going to say that, okay? Listen, I'm not.

That was a bait by Robert, too, for me to go right there. That was 100% that. Yeah, I threw the oop. You didn't catch it. Yeah, yeah the culture did change though the culture completely changed and i think that is something that gets talked about is how a winning culture is established and that's not just the players or the coaches by the way that's the equipment managers that's the athletic trainers that's the front office

that's everybody being on and there was just such a vast difference of the culture and i think i don't know i grigson it was his first time getting put in power, right? So I think he wanted to put his stamp on everything. And in doing so, it was just like he changed a lot of what was great about Indianapolis. And that team feeling and environment, like those planes trip home, AJ. No, they didn't do tour at all either. They did no tour at all.

Hold on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never had one. Never had a shot. home, AJ. No, they didn't do Toradol either. They did no Toradol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never had one. Never had a shot. Are you serious? Yeah. I got to Cincinnati my 10th year, and they all looked at me the same way. Like when they were lining up first game, like, no, man, never had.

I don't know. It's not my... They didn't do it in Green Bay. Think about how good he would have been. You probably could have played 20 years I think my knee would have felt much better Having no cartilage That tour dog could have helped Ain't no coulda

Just keep in mind Tuesday morning It's coming But those plane rides home He said he didn't party that hard On the plane rides home either But that Man

Those were some of the best times I've ever been a part of. Because you've got a lot of people that probably don't have that good of a time anymore, right? They all got families. They're all dedicated to their craft. But those trips home, you're kind of stuck. And it's just like everybody had a blast. Yeah. We had a nice adult beverage.

Especially after a win, man. It's just no better feeling. And those are the things that you miss when you retire from the game, that locker room dynamic and those playing rides back. Man, you miss those. And you're just having fun and just talking about everything across the board. You're just having a good old time, man. That stuff never gets talked about, AJ.

The culture never gets talked about. How does Grigson change that so he want to see he does he wants to see no i'm curious i mean you this is everybody first of all everybody you still had football left so let's get to la and let's get everybody out of here i got a text joseph died text me he said don't answer your phone they're cutting everybody i was like okay that is hilarious thing it was real though though. They got rid of everybody. And then it was almost how they painted over the walls. They painted over all of our history.

I was very salty at that. I was very salty at that. So it was a mural of basically Colts' heritage. Just the Super Bowl wins. Baltimore. Just Johnny Unitas, Peyton Manning, Edrin James. And he painted over that. Because why, I don't know.

I don't know still to this day. But that rubbed me the wrong way. But at the same time, I'm trying to be a team guy. But I kind of asked, like, okay, what was the purpose of that? And the answer I got, I wasn't satisfied with it, but I just left it alone. And there was a couple of speeches that were like, we're trying to change the culture here because we just went 2-14. It was like, yeah, but if you just look one year before that, you see.

The Super Bowl. Yeah, you look just one year before that. It was the winningest decade in NFL history. So it was like, I don't know if the 2-14 year kind of, a lot of people just acted as if that 2-14 year was a normal thing for the Indianapolis Colts. And then the people that stuck around – it was just – and then he brought in a lot of free agents who didn't really – I don't know. It just – whenever you just bring in a lot of people

that don't love the team that you're on yet. I'm not saying that they won't at some point. But it was just like a turnover of the entire roster, the building. Everything just gets turned over and you kind of just – If I'm not mistaken, the guy that he said was too old is still playing antoine bethea that he chose lauron landry over yeah now ab by the way and if you know me i don't bite my tongue i'm gonna say i'll say what needs to be said but that was a a terrible decision that was a very bad decision both for the field and the locker room by the way right because ab. Because A.B. was one of the leaders of the locker room.

Right. So whenever those decisions get made, you can see how some people get a little. And then whenever you get a bunch of people that come in there that don't know any better about what the Colts are, and then they start looking at people that haven't been around. It's just everything got flipped. And I guess that's going to happen with transition always. But that's that thing, that special ingredient that Firsty made. You can't replicate it, but you can get rid of it is what I learned.

I learned that you can get rid of it. Right, and I'm happy that I feel like we landed on our feet now. We've got Frank Wright and Chris Ballard. Ballard is a baby. He's a baby polian. That's what I call him. He goes about it the same way, building the teams through the draft, and you add in key pieces because you've done your homework on them.

So our scouting department, they do a very extensive job of knowing guys before they sign anybody outside of the guys being homegrown. So I'm very encouraged about the future for the Colts now. Have you worked or met with DeForest at all? I have not. I'm itching to work with him. He's like 6'15". Yeah. He's a dog, man.

I watched him. I watched his work, what he did in San Francisco, so I'm anxious to work with him. Hey, well, you guys went 2-14. Wasn't that the year Peyton got hurt? Oh, yeah. It was the day of the cuts. I forgot that it was announced that Peyton was going to be out the day of the cut to the 53-man roster. Bill Pullian just told me that story.

The only thing I really remember of that whole thing was I was summoned to the training room. I was summoned to the training room by Peyton. And I go down there, and I walk in this back room, and it's him and Aaron Burrill. And he's got all these wires coming out of him. And I was like, well't this obviously isn't great and it was at that moment I realized that I did not work hard enough in the offseason for how much I was going to be punting it appeared but we all kind of found out late about that that that was a very late late thing to find out about the lesson I learned from that is that anybody can get it i never in my wildest dreams thought you peyton would be released

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so i never it's just like wow anybody can be replaced and so that was a very valuable lesson that i pass on to these young young guys you can come in the second you walk in this building it's the very second they're trying to replace you by younger and cheaper. And I've said this to their face in the locker room, with the front office, and I'm just being real. That's the business, the nature of the business. Wow. But why do they feel like you have to blow the team up going 2-14

just a year removed from the Super Bowl because your starting Hall of Fame quarterback got hurt? Shit, ask them. That's a great question. There was a lot of that because now we talked to Bill Polian the other day, and he said that him and Peyton going into that had an

agreement they're going to do four more years together, then retire together. Bill Polian told Peyton, I'm going to have to draft your successor. Successor or successor? Either. Yeah. The successor, though. He said, I'm going to have to draft your successor at some point.

So if that 2-14 year happens, and then Jim Irsay asked him the day before the final game, which quarterback would you take? Bill Pullian says, I would take Andrew Luck. But if we end up at 2 and we get RG3, both good options. I don't know how that would have went with. Andrew Luck or Andrew Luck. Come on, man. I think we all knew that.

Yeah, but I think Bill Pullian's plan was to potentially do an Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre with Peyton and Andrew. And I think for Andrew, that would have helped out so much. Because on the field, Andrew was unbelievable. His rookie year, unbelievable. He was a good quarterback. But if he could have saw how Peyton operated off the field, I think that would have helped Andrew immensely through this entire thing.

Yeah. So you're not going to finish the story? What's that? Of why it didn't happen. Well, then they fired Bill Pauly and then they cut everybody. Oh, yeah. What were you going to say? That.

No, you were trying to alley you a break back. Yeah, yeah. Okay, the ball got tossed back up but that the andrew luck era was an interesting one because man he was so good and we all knew it we all knew we had a guy as soon as he got in there and there there goes the anger again like the end the importance of o-line protection. We have it now. You see them, Dallas Cowboys, all these units that have solid, I mean, just dominant O-line play.

If Andrew Luck had Quentin Nelson, you know, because he had Costanzo, but if he'd had Quentin Nelson, Kelly, all these guys. Quentin changed Costanzo, but if he'd had Quentin Nelson, Kelly, all these guys. Quentin changed Costanzo, by the way. Yeah. Costanzo became a different player once Quentin Nelson got there. Hey, man, Quentin Nelson, that's my favorite player on that team.

He's a dog. Yeah, not scary. I like him. He's a dog. When you have to face off against a Quentin Nelson, AJ, what is the mental preparation? They're like, okay, I got this guy that they call Earl Gray because he teabags people.

Is there a thought in that entire thing? I mean, stay away from him. Try not to be around that dude. Because he's the type of guy, too, you try to come downhill and shock him. Like, yeah, good luck. That's what he wants. You do that,

you're going to pay the piper for that one. Who's an offensive lineman that gave you problems? The toughest, however, it was Walter Jones, Seattle Seahawks. He was a man. Did you hear he knocked Hasselbeck out? No. There's a story that just circled the internet like last year.

So I guess there was something where Walter Jones said that I have to smack Matt Hasselbeck in the face for something happened at training camp in his dorm room. Smacked him in the face night-night. He slapped him? Starting quarterback. Starting quarterback. Yeah. See, there's a situation I wish I was at. There's something I think

I would have really thrived. I'm going to text Matt after this. Oh yeah, his story went out there. But that guy, he was athletic, right? Is it because for you, what gave you the most problems? Like the guys that were super athletic or taller? It was more what was Walter Jones and Joe Thomas. They were just fundamentally sound. So when you have O-linemen that make you have to go through them

to get to the quarterback, those are the guys that give you problems. They're not going to take a lot of fakes, a lot of setup moves and all this. No, you have to go through me to get to the quarterback, those are the guys that give you problems. They're not going to take a lot of fakes, a lot of setup moves and all this. No. You have to go through me to get to him. A lot of times, the ball is gone by the time you get by these guys. They gave me the most problems. Are those big tackles that are

that good? Are they just super patient, too? And not they're going to jump out there and try to... They don't freak out. In their kick slide. They seem very, very comfortable just letting you do your thing. That was Joe Thomas all day. He just – he's going to take his kick step, kick step, and just wait on you. Every single snap.

He's not going to take any baits, any fakes, any like head fakes, none of that stuff. So you really – if you're going to beat him, you've got to earn it. So you really have to fool him to make him think you're about to do a power move and then you give him a quick swipe or something like that. But the O-linemen that are solid in their fundamentals, those are the toughest ones to beat. When you go into that game against Joe Thomas, I assume there's a game plan of some sort, like early I'm going to hit with this,

then I'm going to do this, then potentially get this. Is that how that works, or what is the thought going into it? When you got old tackles of his caliber, I would hit him with a game early just to instill that. Game, I mean, go ahead. Like a two-man twist game. So I would run like a quick ET, which is a defensive end, end, first, tackle, wrap.

And then now the next time I will go kind of sit him down, run right at him so he thinks it's another game, and then do a quick outside move to shorten the corner for myself. But it's all about just rock, paper, scissoring, out thinking him. Shoot. Yeah, exactly. See, I didn't know that until watching you guys work, like the amount of game planning that goes into this one-on-one matchup.

Well, you got to know what's his weakness, what's his strength. And just like you have to know yours as well. If O-Lime shut me out the last week, guess what? I'm going to get the same thing this week that the guy just did last. So I have to know my own weaknesses as well. Wow. What about any backs? You got any backs that just annoyed you that always seemed to chip me harder

than others? Anybody that played for Jacksonville Jaguars. We got Fred Taylor and Maurice Jones-Drew. I think it was personal with them, man. They just didn't like the coach, man. Fred Taylor, he de-cleated me something awful on a chip block. I had to get a surgery in that offseason. Like, he – I had a – shit, I don't know what the hell.

But that was my first time ever getting chipped. And I'm a young player. I think I'm winning around the edge. For those that don't know what a chip is, for those – When a running back's – Tight end. Yeah. Running back.

Tight end. I call it bitch block. It's a hit and run They gonna hit you Boom They gonna sit you down And then they gonna go Off on their routes

And so he did that I had no clue I'm just running around The corner like a young Dumbass He sat me down He de-cleated me And I got up

I was like man Who the hell hit me You know And so I had to get A shoulder surgery after that And so from that point on Every time a running back is aligned to my side dwight learned early i'm looking and it kind of makes you look timid to get in your rush but like i said that's that's another mental that's another chess move so you have to learn how to adjust to it because we got a lot of that and

that's when you would go back to the beginning of this conversation where if that guy's coming for me i'm just going to go ahead and run. I'm going to take an inside move because I know the center is going to Dwight. Oh, because the running back came to your side so that means they can send the extra guy to that side. So it's running back, offensive tackle, guard, center,

guard, tackle. That's three on two. Both sides. Ha! Ha! You see that, AJ? I love watching you learn football, Pat. It's awesome. I like to see it.

Hey, man, I got the moves already. We already saw that I had the moves. You got a kick slide, too. Why don't you do that? Actually, you always are showcasing your kick slide. Say you'll do it to anybody. Why don't you show them? I'm busy, man.

I think today the kick pass is busy. You walked 142 floors yesterday. Yeah. The legs. I've been doing 284 floors on a stair match the last two days, Robert. How about that? That's impressive.

You've seen me at some fat levels. I'm getting down in shape now at this point. Hey, I love it, man. There was one day I came back from a good off-season. I had a good off-season. It was an enjoyable one. And I'm sitting down at the locker you know and my gut i think is just hanging over potentially both of my towel sides there and uh i'm sitting there about either to go to the shower i just got done with the shower and all i hear is slall and i look back i look back and it was

robert he goes and he just walks away. I was like, yeah, we got to start running. We got to maybe put three towels on whenever we get out of here. Slow. Slow. It was awesome. You have anything else for Robert, AJ? I don't know.

Not really, man. I appreciate your time, man. Say what now? When was the last time you saw your Super Bowl ring, AJ now? When was the last time you saw your Super Bowl ring, AJ? And when was the last time you saw your Super Bowl ring? I have it in a little case at home. So, I mean. Do you see it or is it just like.

No, it's not on display. I just have it. I don't actively look at it, you know. I got it. It says it's at home. Shit, it's at home. Haven't seen it though in years. How about you, AJ? You wear yours a home. I haven't seen it, though, in years. How about you, AJ?

You wear yours a lot. I think AJ wears... All the time. Yeah, I'm shocked I'm not wearing it right now. Mine's in a wall safe in my closet. Oh, good. Can't wear them. We got that AFC championship ring.

Bailey's got the coat. After that Super Bowl, we had that AFC championship ring. Blah, blah, blah. We're not even, you're like, we're not even allowed to talk about having that. It's a big ass fucking ring too. It's a second place ring.

Can't wear it. We can never wear it, but it was a, an entire ring ceremony. You got the banner too. Oh, by the way, that banner cost us a lot of shit. We did not hang any of those banners.

I mean, please get off of our ass. I'll still get tweets about it. I didn't do it. I know. I didn't shit. Robert, I appreciate you for stopping by. Man, we got to do this again.

This was fun, man. You guys made my day with this. No, you made our day. Literally, this is a great conversation. Thanks for stopping by. Congrats on the Colts Ring of Honor. That is well, well, well deserved. Yeah, Robert.

Yeah. Zito did a standing out for you. Nobody else did. You should remember that. No, the New England guy did not stand up. He actually didn't clap. He's soft. No, I clap.

And by the way, slow. Slow. AJ, what do you got this weekend, man? Anything? I'm heading out of town in a couple days, man. So next week I'll be remote for the show. Is Tahoe next week? No.

Tahoe's not until July something. We're going on a family vacation. Oh, nice. That's nice. We're going to the Jays. Nice. I don't know where I'll be, Pat. I might be holed up in a closet again for the show next week.

I got to see what the internet situation's like once I get there. Robert, do you know that AJ HawkJ. Hawk signed for $250 million when he was drafted fifth overall to the Packers? I believe it. He deserved it. Hey, if you get it, you earned it. Hey, you are worth exactly what somebody's willing to pay you. I was going to say, they overpaid, they underpaid.

No. Nope. No. They paid exactly what they were willing to pay. Give it. Do you guys have anything for Robert? Oh, yeah, I do. Soap this water.

Do you like the water? I like the water. I mean, I don't want people to think I'm drinking beer on the air. This is water. Yeah, I know. I had to do the same thing, and I own the water. Will you also show the people that we did give you a cigar? Yeah, we did.

Yeah, they don't believe that. Yeah, I'm'm gonna take this uh no i was gonna ask is there a a player that you most read like a pass rusher in today's game that you most respect their game von miller oh von miller he's the smooth yeah he's the best edge rusher in the game to me aaron donald inside this it's a lot of guys you know chandler jones let's see see i can't just name one guy yeah jones khalil max von miller tj watt yeah tj watt uh joey bosa uh man it's a lot of guys it's a lot of jj watt it's a lot of dogs tj what tj watt and just what's the other bosa the baby dick joey nick yeah nick this is it man this you can't name one guy but von miller i'm TJ Watt and just, what's the other bolster? The baby bolster. Nick Joey. Nick, yeah, Nick. This is it, man.

You can't name one guy. But Von Miller, I'm a huge fan of his game. How about Lamar Jackson? What do you do to Lamar Jackson? This is Justin Houston, my guy. Oh, yeah. Justin Houston's your guy? Yeah, man, yeah.

But go ahead. Is he leading the D-line for the Colts? Yeah, I'm talking about quarterback. No, because listen. Look what you just did right there. You just listed off probably 15 to 20 great pass rushers. Right. Right?

And that's because the game changed so much with the rules. It became a passing game. Right. Now, if you look at the Ravens, they're going old school now. We got three tight ends. We got Lamar on the ground. Yeah. He's still throwing it.

How, like, if you're a pass rusher that game, what is the mindset? Like, I just got to keep the edge here? No edge, no. Like, no, don't say that. No edge, no no edge no like no don't say that no there's no chance do not don't say that shit yeah so what now what dude so what now what keep your thought bro so with quarterbacks like that him and deshaun watson you gotta run a lot of trap games you have to bait him into a certain place you can rush four guys and then have a field guy that's a spy linebacker and you flood one area and

funnel him to this particular area and have your spy guy go get him. So the next time, now your down four guys can go rushing all of that and he's not so hesitant to leave that pocket because he's expecting a spy guy. You think defense coordinator is going to figure him out?

Yeah, I do. I mean, they figured out Mike Vick. Now Lamar is doing the same exact thing the professional athletes that Michael Vick was doing, though. Yeah. I mean, that's – We ran trap games, quarterback trap games, and Michael Vick was left-handed. So it was me coming off the left side,

and Dwight was going to do the up and under. So Lamar Jackson, he's right-handed. So, I would go up and under and they would run around the horn. So, it's a lot. It can be done. You can be neutralized. Trust me on that. Yeah, I can.

I got a whole book of it. John Treelink taught us right. You hate quarterbacks. I do. Nothing personal. Robert, isn't the hardest thing, though, when you're trying to run those trap games is finding four guys that are going to be that disciplined all game? True.

But there's always usually – like if one guy peaks or goes inside when he's supposed to wrap or something, it happens, and it usually happens at the worst time for the defense. Yeah, very true because we lost to the Eagles when Vic was playing, when a guy took – he peaked, and then Vic got out. Game over. Is that when McCoy was there too? guy took – he peaked. And then Vic got out. Game over. Is that when McCoy was there too? Oh, Shady, I think so.

That first – he had a – We had the – Yeah. Two helmets? Yeah, that was my first game back after suspension, by the way. Crud. Big crud. But it's – when guys do that, they play – they just –

they don't stick to the script and play me ball. You got to get in their face. How important is that? Everybody being on a string. They play, they just, they don't stick to the script and play me ball. You got to get in their face. How important is that, everybody being on a string? They always talk about that. Tied to a string. It's very important because one guy that gets out of his gap, now it opens up like the Red Sea.

That middle of the field will open up, and the quarterback that's like Lamar Jackson, it's gone. It's six points. So everybody has to rush in sync. It's almost like dancing together. And the 49ers did that to perfection last year. So I'm happy to have one, to pluck one of their guys and just instill just the importance of team rush, rushing as a team, as a unit.

One guy just don't do it. One guy may get all the sacks or whatever, but the other three guys are just as important because they help set it up. Hey, cheers to you, man. Yeah, I don't have any. I need another one. It's water. I know. Don't get too drunk

on water over there, Robert. Ice cold water. Hey, New England Patriot has a fan. Yeah, Robert, just don't smack me, but is there any other sports you played growing up aside from football? Because I know AJ, I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything else. Oh. All right, Connor. That doesn't even deserve a response, Connor.

It was shot put in discus in high school, but it was just so I can go on the track and field trips. What's going on there? I see what you're doing there. I see. Yeah, that was about it. That was the extent of it. Man.

Where do you come from? Zone 6, East Atlanta, Georgia. McNair High School, Boulder, Chris. I went to high school with Gucci Mane. Oh, that's awesome. Gucci? Bitch, I might pick. No, it's funny yeah it's it's a funny story i always tell everybody yeah yeah he and i went to high school together really he's yoked up

right now yeah he came out of jail man yeah he's a totally different person so describe because i knew you're from zone six and then i think Pac-Man is... He's Westside. That's Zone 1, Zone 3. So what is the... It's police zone precincts. Gotcha. So sides of towns, stuff like that. Yeah, that's about it.

Atlanta right now. Interesting place. Yeah, it's something else down there. The whole country, I guess, is kind of in an interesting spot, atlanta has been showcased here so killer mike that speech he gave it was incredible yeah it's just a real funky time we in right now so come on america let's get it together shit respect one another and this just just keep it moving keep it breezy hey we can all dance together yeah we, we can dance together. Pop Locker or something. Ladies

and gentlemen, HBCU Hall of Famer, Colts Ring of Honor member, future NFL Hall of Famer, the strip sack king. Ladies, it should be a stat. Quarterback strip sacks are still not an official stat.

Roger Goodell. Roger Goodell. Hey, Roger Goodell, you're on a big, like, hey, let's make things right tour. Roger Goodell. Make it a stat. Ladies and gentlemen, strip sack king, Robert Mathis. Thank you. And that's the show.

The greatest sports talk show on the internet. From one to two, it's in standard time. So come on now. And that's the show. AJ, great show, man, by you, bud. Go on, yeah. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no. AJ used to tackle quarterbacks And he's a rust belt kind of guy That's the butter of the dickhead for the 2010s Kicking Pierce Missiles to the sky

It's McAfee and Hawk It's McAfee and Hawk Sports Talk It's McAfee and Hawk Sports Talk Sorry for interrupting this fabulous conversation. I mean, we were really talking good. Huh? Oh, yeah. Hey, I was proud of what we were talking.

Yeah, great stuff. I mean, you're not going to hear that anywhere else. I was like, you know what? Those guys right there, the way they're talking, good. You know? I hear you. Really good. With the ever-increasing number of makes of cars you know

yeah fiat sure kia yeah hyundai yep honda jeep yeah gm yeah yuka no i miss it chevrolet chevy ford yeah cadillac list goes on and on genesis eagle lincoln saturn Genesis. Eagle. Lincoln. Saturn. Ferrari. Tesla. Lamborghini. Audi. Volvo.

Beamer. Mercedes. Did you already use that? No, but I was just in Germany, though. That's like, in my head, I couldn't. Maserati. Good, Italy. That's like in my head. I couldn't. Maserati. Good. Italy.

Ferrari. Lambo. Anyways, there is a never ending number of car mix these days and models. Now let's go. Pacifica. Civic. Wrangler. Camry.

Yukon. Escalade. Sport. I'm done sport i'm done i'm done it is now impossible to stock all the parts you could potentially need for a car in a traditional chain storefront why endure the often pointless or seemingly intimidating questioning excuse me is your car the odyssey lx px dx ox or ex it's like i don't know i fucking bought it two years ago they're like well what type of thing is this it's kind of an intimidating thing because you feel like an idiot because you don't know every single thing about your car which is what the people at the chain storefront need and all they're going to do is type it into their little computer and they're only going to be able

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for professionals as do-it-yourselfers. Why spend up to twice as much for the same damn parts? Go to rockauto.com right now and see all the parts available for your car or truck. Write McAfee in there, hey, how'd you hear about us, box, so they know that we sent you. That's right, McAfee in there, hey, how'd you find out about us, box, so that they know that we sent you that's right mcafee in there hey how'd you find out about us box so that they know that we sent you amazing selection reliably low prices all the parts your car could ever need right now at rockauto.com there's a lot of things still cooking between the mlb and the mlbpa and i'll tell you what none of it seems good they seem to have taken a step forward because at Rob Manfred's request, at the commissioner of the league's request,

he and Tony Clark spoke in Phoenix last week for the first time and however long in the middle of this public drama. They had a conversation. Rob Manfred said that he reiterated the outline to Tony Clark, which, by the way, any good negotiation is not going to say that one person's telling the other person how it goes, how it is, do this. It's just getting uglier and uglier. And to discuss with us the MLB, the NHL, the NBA, the MLB, and everything that's happening right now. And if you follow his Twitter, he says, hey, the business of sports always wins in the end.

Science can tell you whatever. The league can tell you whatever. The players can tell you whatever. you whatever. The league can tell you whatever. The players can tell you whatever. But at the end of the day, the business of sports is always the focal point that is going to get something done. Ladies and gentlemen, the host of the Business of Sports podcast, Andrew Brandt. Yeah. Atta boy. Atta boy, Andrew.

Hey, Pat. Great to be with you. I can't thank you enough for joining us. Let's get right into it. Rob Manfred has handled this like an absolute buffoon. Do you agree? Yeah, I mean, it's always the blame is going to go with the owners and these kind of things because it's their game. They're taking the risk. They look at it as the players need to share our pain. We have a lot of pain coming up because of no fans in the seats. Let's start back at the agreement in March, Pat, because that's I'm a lawyer. I've read this agreement. You could argue both ways, which means either bad lawyering or good lawyering.

You can read it as the players get pro reta pay, or you can read it as the owners only agree to this if they're fans in the seats. And this is where it all stems from. So they've had the back and forth. It's been contentious and now it looks like the owners are kind of running the clock so the most they can play just physically to get it done by the end of october is 60 games so that's where we are right now but listen the players understand they have a little leverage here. If he was going to impose the season, he would have

done that already. The only way he imposes the season is he doesn't get the waiver on the lawsuit, the grievance that they did negotiate in good faith, and the playoff system they want. So the players have a little bit of leverage here. But listen, the question to me, me pat is whether we're going to come out with a 60 game or 62 or 65 or 58 right now we're there basically it's just standing and pointing not talking to each other and pointing fingers but andrew isn't the job of the commissioner to kind of be the guy who goes the owners and goes hey let's try to get this done and isn't he supposed to go to the players and say hey let's get this done and hasn't he done the complete of that? Doesn't it feel like every time he opens his mouth, he almost makes it go a step backwards? It feels like Rob Manfred is the least polished commissioner

in the history of commissionering ship. It really does feel like that's the case. You know, here's the problem. I think half of what you said is true. And unfortunately, the other half isn't really the commissioner works for the owners. He's reporting to them. That's his constituency. It's fun to say he cares about the game and the players and all that, but really, he works for the owners. And I teach commissioner power in law school. I understand it. Everything is about the owners.

They hire. They fire. They set his pay. They set his report card, if you will. buyer. They set his pay. They set his report card, if you will. This is clearly true with Goodell, who's sort of lived on this, taking the bullets so they don't have to. And I think that's a lot what's going on here. I think the owners are pushing Manfred to make a really tough deal. And he is the messenger. Now, he's a smart guy. He's doing his own negotiating, but they're pushing it. So this sort of euphemism that the

commissioners are for the good of the game, I don't know. I will. One exception is Adam Silver, who we can talk about. I think he's much more player oriented, but other commissioners pretty much, you know, it's owners, man. Okay. So let's talk about, we'll talk about Adam Silver in a few, but let's talk about the NFL. I have a very firm belief that no matter what happens no matter what tony fachi says no matter what anything else says the nfl will figure out a way to go about having their season without any interruptions now maybe there'll be no fans in stands maybe they'll have to adjust that way but when it comes to sundays in the fall there will be nfl games because that's how the NFL owners operate.

Am I wrong in thinking that? You're not wrong. But for the first time in the last couple of days, Pat, I've had questions. Now, before I say that, you're right. Full speed ahead. Draft. They signed a CBA before the pandemic even hit. Draft.

Free agency. Schedule release with no contingencies. They made a schedule with no contingencies. How about that? So they're full speed ahead. They're going back to work today in the office I just saw. But, you know, listen, we can't dismiss Fauci. He's talking about, okay, they're not going to be in the bubble like NHL, NBA. That's a problem. Think about it. If they're not in the bubble, they're not only interacting with their locker room, which is already jam-packed, but they're going out to family and other interactions.

And we have all these positive tests coming in. We know about Zeke Elliott and Vaughn Miller, but we don't even know about these other ones. And they're not even practicing. So the problem to me is you know this better than I do. You can have 100 pages of protocols, but none of them are going to say, this is how you play football because football is contact. It's the opposite of social distancing. And I just wonder if they're put, you know, here's where,

I just wrote about this for Sports Illustrated. We hear the number one priority or highest priority of the NFL, back from concussions, is player health and safety. If that was true, they wouldn't play. Okay? If that was really true, they would not play. This is a high-revalent, transmissible disease. They would not play. It is not true. It's not true.

We know. It hasn't been true, though, for years. They play on Thursdays, got to play on Sunday. They only came out with the health and safety thing whenever Dr. Will Smith came out, and then that kind of disappeared. As I said, as you noted, the business of sports always wins. Listen, my point is we're adults. We get it. You don't have to lie to us. You can say we're mitigating the risk of health and safety with this virulent disease as best we can, but we are not going to disrupt a $15 billion business. We get it. We get it. I get it more than anyone. So listen, I just think we have to be honest about health and safety being a number one priority because it's not. If that was the case, they wouldn't play.

That's true for all leagues, all leagues. If that was the case, they would not play football this year or basketball, baseball, hockey. Let's talk about the NFLPA's doctor that I didn't even know existed. He come out now and said that Dr. Thaum, he said, do not work out in groups no more. We are recommending that our players do not work out in groups anymore because of the increase in COVID-19 cases, in more words than what I just said. Do you think that's potentially a play for the NFLPA to put their feet in the ground right now saying, hey, we've been telling them not to work out together. And then whenever this July 28th date comes for the training camp, are we potentially going to see the same type of thing that's going on with the nba and the nbpa right now whenever it comes to player safety and

conversation and is that why the nflpa doctors come out now and said this is where we stand on it because this is inevitably going to become a much larger conversation as we get closer to the training camp absolutely and you know my saying on Twitter, there will be lawyers. There are going to be a lot of lawyers involved here. I have team executives from the NFL telling me they're wondering about waivers. They're wondering about waivers because of liability, and not so much liability of the player. As I said, the player's going to go home. They're going to be at-risk people. And what about, God forbid, a player infects an older relative, something drastic happens, and the team has liability. So I'm looking at the issue of waivers. I'm looking at the issue of opt-outs. I think

there are going to be players, NBA, NHL, soccer, football, that want to opt out. And some have reached out to me through DM on Twitter. And my first question is, are you okay not getting paid? And they say, why can't I get paid? Because I'm fearful, because my wife, because my grandmother, my wife's mother lives with us. All these kind of things are going on right now. And I'm really wondering how this is all going to be handled because people aren't thinking through, you know, all these tests. And the other thing Dr. Tom Mayer, who you referenced, said on a conference call was, you know, people think

NFL players, big, strong, healthy, are armored up against this thing. We have a lot of African Americans. We have a lot of high BMI measurements. and we have a lot of sleep apnea. Those are three disproportionate impacts we've seen with the virus. That's a problem. And what also concerned me, Pat, is that I read Von Miller, just it was kind of a throwaway article somewhere, where yeah, like 25 days after I recovered, somewhere where yeah like 25 days after i've recovered i'm still feeling you know and i and i've got wind capacity issues and i'm like really von miller like this is a this is a problem am i saying don't play football no what i'm saying is we've got a lot to accept here if we're going to go forward and i think that's what's going to happen with the nba right the nba is going to do this down in Orlando on July 31st. They are going to have the tournament. It's just whether or not who will join them. That's going to be because Brian Windhorst was

on ESPN this morning. And I think he talks to a lot of players. He said that there's going to be guys that say no because of COVID-19. There's going to be guys that are saying no because of the convenience part. There's going to be people that are going to say no because the social justice movement they want to be a part of. There's going to be people that are going to say no because the social justice movement they want to be a part of there's going to be guys that say no and the nba is like we're still going to do this with or without them do you think the nfl potentially does that same type of mindset well the nfl has the luxury of watching and observing all these other leagues especially the nba what i'm really interested in is adam silver's on espn on that commissioner thing last week with mike greenberg, and they asked him about opt-outs

like you're talking about. And to me, again, a lawyer, he seemed receptive. He seemed to be in the camp that if they want out for social unrest, if they want out for physical health, it sounded like he was receptive to that. Now, I don't know if that means they necessarily get paid or they have a doctor's note or whatever it is. But if that's a precedent, I don't see how Roger Goodell can then say, well, that's basketball. So we may get into that whole thing about what are the opt-outs? What is the procedure? What's the process? What's the policy?

Andrew, what's the real money? Bottom line, let's say there's no fans for nfl for the first eight weeks okay eight weeks of the 17 game season financially the numbers that were getting thrown out there by schefter how that was that a couple months ago like the amount of money that they said they could potentially go out on is massive but the tv rights negotiations are still coming up at the same time so So with the TV rights negotiations, which goes into a large part of the player's cap and the player's money, but without the fans' money, what does the salary cap look like next year in 2021 if there's no fans for half the season but the TV rights deal is still negotiated?

Does that have a fall drop-off or do you think it kind of maintains? Let's look at this. So first on baseball what they've been fighting about all along is they say 40 of their revenues is based on game day 40 so they're not gonna have fans they're not gonna have game day revenues they're losing 40 of their game of their total revenue a lot of beers watching baseball a lot of beers those are long games football because of the immense size of national TV, the fact that teams get $270 million before they turn the lights on.

Football, revenues for game day, the best I can come up with is about 20%. So where Schefter was coming up, I think, too high with a number like $5 billion, I was saying more like $3 billion. Because if you have $15 billion total, you take away 20%, that's $300 million. Now, if it's half the season, half that, $150 million. It's going to be reflected in the team cap for next year because the way the cap is allocated and calculated, it's for the next season. So where I'm suggesting is what's going on in baseball is going to happen in football. Not to the contentiousness, not to the

degree, but I see it happening. I see Roger Goodell coming to Dee Smith and JC Tretter and saying, do you really want a cap in 2021 lower than 2020? That doesn't look good for the players. Now you can explain it away with COVID, but I see them getting into 2020 cap to smooth it, i.e. lower it so that you actually have a stair step in 2021. No one knows what the revenue loss is going to be, but in projecting it out, you know, we see people like Schefter and Ian Rappaport talk about a loss of 40 million in capper and per team. I don't think it'll be that, but they want to get ahead of this. I think they should. Do you think that's why Dak Prescott signed his $31.4 million guaranteed? Cause he has no idea what the money's going to look like going forward after this year. I think that's part of it. You

know, if I'm rep, if I'm working for the Cowboys, the Chiefs, the Texans, there's no way, I did this for 10 years, there's no way I can say, let's go commit to Mahomes or Deshaun or Dak right now. You can't. You can't. So I'm looking at it from the other side, from the team hat. You can't the only negotiation we've had this offseason really is McCaffrey and everybody is like I don't know you know we're not going there we don't know what 2021 is going to look like we don't know what 2020 is going to look like you know and and I think Dak and I think Deshaun and Pat Mahomes actually gain leverage by waiting so it's good for them too if they play well and not get hurt obviously andrew you just talked you just talked about potentially lowering the 2020 cap how does that work for teams like the chiefs who had 500 worth of cap space recently how does that do they are they do they place a rule where teams are allowed to be over the cap since they're lowering

it this late into the process well they're obviously not going to say it's lowered and then tomorrow you got to get under they're obviously not going to say it's lowered and then tomorrow you've got to get under. They're going to give you time, but I just think like every year, COVID or not, high-paid veterans are at risk. Son of a bitch! You know that.

They're getting younger and younger. Rookie contracts are taking up now 50 to 65 percent of NFL rosters. Jeez. So that's going to be played out. You know, we see it every year, veterans getting cut. There may be more coming up this offseason.

Andrew Brandt, every time I talk to you, I feel like I get smarter. You can check out his podcast, Business of Sports Podcast. You can read his stuff at MMQB. He's executive vice president of VaynerSports. This man's got more jobs than me somehow. It's because he's got a big, big, big old brain. Ladies and gentlemen, Andrew Brandt.

Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, man. Always enjoy it. Cheers, man. Can't thank you enough for listening. Hope you enjoyed the conversations. I thoroughly enjoy good conversations. And I'm thankful that you

chose to listen to some that we had today. What a life this is. Crazy time to be alive. Crazy time to be alive. What will the players of the MLB say? What will the other leagues do? TBD. We'll see you on Thursday. Remember, if you like this show, please tell a friend.

Hashtag this where I'm at. Pat, Pat take a picture where you're listening to the show be a part of a video we're creating about spending time together this quarantine we did this as a team we're not out yet but we're damn damn close see you Thursday Ty Schmidt please play some independent music 🎵 I don't know I don't know, I don't know Under the moonlight And we feel like I don't know, I don't know Under this moonlight

And we feel the fire We are lost In this ocean of night That's a time And we feel fine ស្លាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប្រាប្រាប Under this moonlight And we feel the fire We are lost In this ocean of night Lost and unknown

I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Bye.