The Pat McAfee Show - PMS 2.0 390 - Lavonte David, Lane Kiffin, Sports Psychologist Dr. Scott Goldman, & AJ Hawk

Episode Date: April 7, 2021

On today's show, Pat and the boys chat about Pat's first golf round of the year, teams with the best weapons in the NFL and why it's a weapons league right now, Tom Brady's interview with Michael Strahan on Good Morning America about realizing things can be done a different way, and everything else going on in the NFL right now. Joining the program is Super Bowl Champion, Pro Bowler, 3x All-Pro, going into his 10th year at LB in the NFL, Buccaneers LB Lavonte David to chat about being a Super Bowl champion, how Tom Brady changes a teams culture, why guys from South Florida are just built different, and how excited he is for the Buccaneers to have virtually everybody back (24:10-42:41). Next, Ole Miss Head Football Coach Lane Kiffin joins the show to chat about the state of his program, what he thinks about a couple of the prospects in the draft, and if he expects things to be fairly normal this upcoming season (44:59-1:00:05). Later, noted Sports Psychologist, and proctor of a test that we just learned about yesterday, Dr. Scott Goldman joins Pat and AJ Hawk to chat about his test after Mark Sanchez reported that Justin Fields scored the highest score on the recall portion. Dr. Goldman gives a comprehensive breakdown of what his test covers, which professional teams use them, if the data indicates something about certain positions or sports, and much more (1:02:39-1:38:17). Make sure you subscribe to youtube.com/thepatmcafeeshow and listen every day on Mad Dog Radio, Sirius XM Channel 82. We appreciate you all for listening, come and laugh with us, cheers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, it is Wednesday, April 7th. It is coming down in Indianapolis. Yeah, this might be the last show ever. I mean, it is insane. We hope everything's okay. T's and P's to everybody being affected by the weather right now. It could be us by the time tomorrow comes. Good show for you today. I think you're going to enjoy the conversation. Let's get right to it. Hey, today's a big day.

Lane Kiffin joins us in about 22 minutes or so. Lane Kiffin has been quoted in rap songs. Lane Kiffin has been a head coach in the NFL. He's been a head coach in college. He's been there, done that with football, growing up in a football family. Cannot wait to chat with him about everything going on in his life. And also, you know, hey, why is the transition so hard to the NFL? You've been there on both sides.

You've won. You've lost on both sides. What makes it so every time he comes on and any time he speaks, I think, electricity flows out of his mouth. Cannot wait to chat with him. He's a guy who does not give a fuck. No. No, he doesn't.

You know what I mean? That's part. He does not. Like, he said some stuff before the college football thing was going to go on where I assume he immediately, on this show, he got emails, I'd assume, from commissioners, from people, like, hey, you can't be saying what you're just saying. He told us before that college football thing goes on, he goes, it'll work, but, I mean, I'm talking to guys right now that don't even have enough players

that would be able to field a team. They want us to deal with this. And then also, by the way, go beat Alabama as well. He says things that you would hope things would be said. And I cannot wait to chat with Lane Kiffin, Don Erdl, Miss Levante David, linebacker for the Buccaneers, Super Bowl champion. He's been with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers since 2012. He's been there for the tough times in Tampa and now for the beautiful times.

Cannot wait to chat with him about all things happening down there for the Buccaneers and in the NFL. And then in the third hour, big, big convo. We learned of this human's existence just yesterday. We were talking to a man who played quarterback at USC, then for the Jets, then bounced around a little bit. Now he does the television. He's handsome. He lives in Southern California. The Sanchez, Mark Sanchez, was talking to us about his draft analysis.

And he talked about the quarterbacks and the position and Sam Darnold, obviously. But when he got to Justin Fields, he dropped a little tidbit on this particular show yesterday that I did not know existed. There is a recall test that 6,500 professional athletes have been given, and out of the NFL quarterbacks, allegedly, this is, all of this is allegedly, out of the NFL quarterbacks that have tested that, which have included Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, and who knows who else, just who the Sanchez mentioned yesterday in this test Justin Fields scored the highest out of all of them in recall so we're starting to think there's a chance with how high he scored the way Sanchez delivered this news he was like hey this is the

highest score they could possibly give basically in this particular test he's got it we're thinking Justin Fields potentially has a photographic memory and if he, how has that not been information that we have learned about until yesterday with Sanchez? We're going to do a little bit of follow-up on the information that Sanchez gave us. We got the creator of the test that Justin Fields took in 6500. Other professional athletes have taken. A doctor in sports psychology, Dr. Goldman, joined us. That's his Twitter profile picture. it's black and white filter i think there's some other potential lighting and highlighting going on in

the photo this dude's legit been doing this for a long time we learned about the goldman standard just yesterday whenever you're testing brains on whether or not they'll be good professional athletes cannot wait to hear his breakdown now we did get a message from dr goldman's team and i don't think dr goldman knows us that well uh that he will not be able to go through individual people's scores and dr goldman we would never expect you to dox people's scores in anything like that that is not the goldman standard way we actually were surprised that sanchez was just spouting them out. We actually wondered where Sanchez heard the information from.

Maybe he just went directly to the sources here, which could very much be the case. But we will talk to Goldman about his test. Is it a fugazi? How come nobody knows about this? Who knows about this test? Because who's potentially spreading misinformation about Justin Fields who might be interested in Justin Fields we were told yesterday about a classic story that I did not remember about Shanahan whenever dad Shanahan when he was in Denver they loved Jay Cutler so much coming out of Vanderbilt that they didn't visit with him they

didn't talk with him they didn't want anybody to know that they were potentially interested so I would assume if it was the social media world the whole entire thing is shanahan hates jay cutler then the whole question would be well why do they hate jay cutler anyways they didn't even act like they were interested in jay cutler at all then all of a sudden on jay cutler didn't even know they were interested then on draft night they drafted and they said listen we were in on this guy from the very beginning uh we didn't want to give away any signs that we loved. And we don't want anybody else to think this was blah, blah, blah. Is somebody doing that with Justin Fields?

Is somebody trying to bury Justin Fields so they can get up and get Justin Fields? What is going on? And does that really work? Like, do teams listen to what the media is reporting about what other teams are feeling or teams doing their own research? Dr. Goldman is going to inform us on who gets to find out his information. I hope he'll tell us. You don't have to tell us exact teams, but NFL teams, I think on his website it said

GMs, presidents of franchises and organizations are who he deals with on a regular basis. So, I mean, we're going to learn a lot in that third hour. AJ Hawk will be there too. Maybe we get Goldman and Tesla CTE stuff. Yes! You know what I mean? Please! Just do like a quick like, quick like,

you know, finish the pattern here with AJ Hawk who has zero documented concussions. Talked to him yesterday, FaceTimed him, by the way. Oh, yeah? How's he doing?

It was after my golf outing. He saw the slow-mo video that I posted and he goes, how'd you do? Was his text, right? I lost 11 balls in eight holes.

That's not bad. Okay? It was not a good first outing. The road to Tahoe 2022 championship circle is going to be a long one, I do believe. Yeah. I mean, there was balls flying through neighborhoods. This golf course that I've been a member of for 13 months. I played golf.

I'd never seen these nine holes. Really? I'd never seen the whole course that we played yesterday. And it's very close to my house. I had no idea the houses that were on the golf course existed. I had no idea this golf course existed. But I will let them know I donated an entire box of balls in nine holes. Wow.

Yeah, I mean, it was pretty good. Pretty good. The DeChambeau putt thing is not the answer for me, I don't think. Oh, no, really? I thought I had it figured out. Son of a bitch. So flat stick's still a big question mark. The big stick was spraying a bit mightily, but the clubs I was using, Mickey Mouse, I'm

not going to be able to use. Oh, not going to cut it. Not going to be able to. I thought we were potentially going to be investors in a golf club. Yeah. You know, that's a pretty cool thing to do. Like, hey, listen, we got golf clubs you want to play. This is like a fun.

Here we go. This is how we're going to do it. I get out there. I'm not going to be able to golf with those. They're Mickey Mouse. They appear to be a bit Mickey Mouse. The bag kind of told the story. We knew from looking at the bag, hey, those clubs are not going to be what you want.

It was a walking bag. It was a walking bag. It was a walking bag. But the club, when I was swinging the club, I think as I was down here, I could still see the head of the club. Oh, okay. You know, like in my periphery. It was almost like I was at the point like, are you coming?

You know what I mean? While I was swinging. So maybe a club issue, probably my fault. First time out, it was not fantastic on the course for those that maybe were wondering. The road to the ACC championship, the American Century Championship, Lake Tahoe Celebrity Invitational Championship Circle is going to be a long one. I'm not even invited to this tournament, but I'm trying to become a good enough player where I can potentially win it. If anything of this golf season is reminiscent of what happened yesterday on the golf course, if we don't turn this, that was the first time out. First time out. First time swinging the driver.

By the way, we've got to be a bit more successful so I can get the driver in the backyard. Okay. Because in the backyard, can't use the driver. Right. Okay, we've got to get a little bit more successful. Okay, we've got to continue to do good things. We've got to get a little bit more successful. We've got to continue to do good things. We've got to hope to maybe hit a scratch off or two.

Maybe win. Hey, why not Powerball? Maybe win Powerball. We've got to do something like that so I can work the driver in the offseason in the backyard. The driver was all over the place. The putters stunk and the clubs were terrible. Yesterday almost made me never want to play golf again But hey you'll turn it around I'll tell you there wasn't one fucking shot

There wasn't one in the region What about that one Are you kidding me That ball got slaughtered This was hole three dude There was four to five more holes on top of this thing That were just terrible terrible lost balls See you later

House in a garage I hit a ball one time across the street in a garage of somebody's house. You're being too hard on yourself. Foxy was bad. All right. First off, first time out. Second off, we didn't have access to a thousand milligrams of vitamins, which is what you need. You're right. I can't

golf in Indiana. No, can't do it. Can only golf in certain states. New York. Yep. Okay. Congrats. They're on the list. Can golf the hell out of Michigan. Oh, yeah. No. Can't do it. Can only golf in certain states. New York? Yep. Okay, congrats. They're on the list. Can golf the hell out of Michigan. Oh, yeah. Massachusetts. Massachusetts. Colorado. You're a hell of a golfer in Canada. Oh, Canada. I'm fucking probably

scratch right now. At least. California. I mean, that's why Tahoe was made for you. Yeah, but is that in California? Oh, yeah. Really? No, it's in Nevada. But Nevada is awesome. Yeah, Nevada. It in California? Oh, yeah. Really? No, it's in Nevada. Yeah. I thought it was in Nevada. But Nevada is awesome. Yeah, Nevada is the best, too.

I think Nevada. The back nine, you're good. Not that I need it. Not that I need it. No. Or I would take it. But what I'm saying is I think Nevada is pretty loose with the marijuana rules. Oh, yeah.

Anyways, golf season opened terribly for me. It was an expensive one. They told me they'll just charge me later for everything I did yesterday. Bought a hat. Bought a box of balls. Had Foxy and Brown with me. And they're like, we'll just charge you later or whatever.

Add it to your monthly tab. What do you have, $1,000 more to go? I would assume I have to. Yeah. And I didn't even know this course existed this is i've been a member for 13 months and foxy and brown are looking at me like what's this whole doing like bro you're fucking and they don't they don't have like a uh they don't have they don't have the carts with the fuck we need i almost want to make this i almost want to make like a

donation like hey we need the carts with the goddamn, what have you been using my membership for? We need the carts with the goddamn GPS on it. Need that. Did you get some fillets on the course, at least? No, there was no. There was no. No cart service. No service out there either.

I mean, it was a beautiful course. Gorgeous. But we can make some upgrades. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen, that was not me. That was the opinions of Foxy. Because I do think a couple people potentially in the clubhouse listened to the show.

Totally, no. Great, great course. But the fact that there isn't a GPS on that golf cart was, because I finally found out how much I paid for this, right? Whenever the email that was linked to that account was not one that's on my phone, so it might as well not be in my life. CFO Phil said, hey, have you seen what you're doing at this thing? I'm like, no.

He's like, well, we've got to pay it, first of all. $8,500 a week. I'm like, what are we? So now I need to get back out there. I need to start using this, I think. We need the golf court with the GPS. I have a question for you over here, too. Go ahead, Zito.

What's up, pal? Is it because you're wearing shoes? No. By the way, I've made a decision. I think I'm going to start wearing shoes when I golf. Every time I've seen you golf under a 40, it's always been without shoes. Yeah, I understand that. But the thing about it is I've been doing a little.

Dirty feet. No. Well, dirty feet happen. Swollen feet happen, too. The one time in Arkansas, whenever we golfed on John Daly's private golf, his public golf course in Arkansas, which is his backyard. They had stickers. And stickers will get you.

They have stickers that will get you. And I did not know that until we were about eight or nine on the side of a mountain, maybe 2,000 feet altitude or whatever, and I had no shoes anywhere near me. And I'm just walking on this mountain, and I'm just getting stabbed. I couldn't put my shoes on afterwards. My feet were so swollen. My feet couldn't get into my shoes,

so I had to wear flippy floppies, but that did not deter me. I still continue to play barefoot because I felt like you should at least feel Mother Earth while you're hacking the shit out of her, but what I found out is from watching the golf fix and such, there is grip things.

If I really want to get good at golf, I'm going to have to start digging in. And everybody on the internet always comes after my hip rotation or whatever. Jesus. Like, hey, listen. I want to let you know, I'm moving from here to here still.

Know that that's enough for me. I don't need that thing. I'm not built for a long, spinning turn. I'm built for a quick, burst, boom. That's how I do it. See ya. That's literally how I do it. I feel like the hips are in.

I just need the feet to get in there, need new clubs, and then golf season's going to be around. Foxy's playing pretty good golf right now. Oh, yeah. You look like you hit a pin seeker on that par three you guys were on. Yeah, he almost literally holed one out. Yeah, but he plays like an 85-year-old, correct?

Yeah, but this course, by the way, kind of set up for those. Yeah, very short and narrow. That's my bread and butter every time. There was a fucking hole there that maybe had a 20-yard, maybe 15-yard hole. It was kind of like a funnel to get to maybe 15-yard hole. It was kind of like a funnel to get to the fairway or whatever.

Line of trees on both sides. So it's like, okay, do I take out a 7-iron here and just kind of hit the field goal, or do I bring out the driver? Obviously bring out the driver. I lost three balls, I think, on that one. On that one. Yeah, I think I lost. Boom, left because there was one that was going to fade back. Probably would have made it in there. Bang into that side. Then a draw happened. Like, I think I lost. Boom. Left because there's one that was going to fade back. Probably would have made it in there.

Bang into that side. Then a draw happened. Like, oh, this is awesome. Bang off of that side. I mean, it was just a fucking nightmare yesterday out there. That's golf. Does Hoka make a golf shoe? Yeah, you know what I mean?

These Hokas right now. Let them know. Hoking to the earth. All right, let's get some sports stuff here. We have a graphic designer that joined our team. At Bubba Gumpino's here at boston connor's here ty schmidt is here viva lazito is here the boys behind the glass we appreciate that tone digs is launching the daily hammer down live show today at 4 p.m on the hammer don youtube it'll be a gambling show daily that tone digs will host gumpy will be in there, I think, daily. We are also

trying to bring in more people to be a part of that show. Diggs is going to try to make that thing great. He could potentially be exhausted from that show. He could be. We'll see how this thing, we'll kind of feel it as we go here, but it'll be live 4 o'clock today, every day starting going forward. Congrats to Diggs on that.

And baby Diggs! Excited to see how you do on that, Diggs. I think it'll be great. We have tried to make a couple acquisitions for that. Oh, yeah? For that show. It's going to be tough, I think. Everybody right now seems to be... Long-term deals. Everybody's locked in.

Yeah. Doesn't matter. We don't need them. Nope. I mean, it would be better. Alright, let's move along. Good luck, Diggs. We're proud of you. Hammer don't need them. Nope. I mean, it would be better. All right, let's move on. Good luck, Diggs. We're proud of you. Hammerdown should be great. We have a new employee, and we announced this last week. Drawn to the game is one of his popular Instagram pages.

His name is Mike Gertie. He is now in the office for the first time because he was in Virginia. Obviously had to go through the COVID stuff. Travels out here. We just see him now in person. Hey, Dirty Gertie, handsome-ass dude. Dirty Gertie's a handsome-ass guy. He came in the office this morning.

We got a chance to watch him work for the first time. He made a graphic that beautifully illustrates a point that we have been making for a long time. Whenever we talk about the Green Bay Packers not drafting a weapon for Aaron Rodgers or bringing in a weapon for Aaron Rodgers, there's some people that go like, oh, you don't believe in Devontae Adams, you don't believe in Big Bob Tunyon,

Aaron Jones, A.J. Dillon. It's like, no, no, no. We do in MVS. Like, we do. And then some people get a little bit upset whenever you assume that you have to load up on weapons to be a good team, and they're like, that's not how you have to do it. I hate to break it to people. Saban said this last week in an interview.

He said, I used to think you have good defense, run the ball well, and you control field position on special teams, you can win games. He then said, if you believe that now, you're an idiot, basically. That is not what football is anymore. Football is you've got to move, you've got to be fast, you've got to be able to score and everything like that. In this graphic that Gertie put together for us today, weapons of mass devastation in the AFC and NFC Kings,

when you look at the offensive weapons for the Buccaneers and the Kansas City Chiefs, and these are, by the way, this is not just us saying like, oh, hey, here's the best weapons in the NFL. What we're telling you is here's the AFC champion, here's the NFC champion. Here are the two best teams in their respected conferences, and these are the teams that everybody else is trying to get. And these are the teams, by the way, that have been able to keep all these motherfucking talented people in their building.

Now, I know there's old school people that think you don't need all those. I think we are in a league right now where you need to have your weapons. You look at the Buccaneers, and Tom Brady gave an interview with Michael Strahan this morning. That was awesome. It was on Good Morning America. Tom Brady's getting into the NFT game, as are the Manning brothers. These two,

Tom Brady and the Manning brothers, getting into the NFT game comes a couple months after we got into the NFT game. That's right. Obviously. Obviously, we released one. We had a commentator on there and everything. But Tom Brady's interview with Michael Strahan, anytime you get a chance to hear somebody who's the greatest of all time, especially if he's the greatest of all time in a league that is the biggest league on earth, you should listen.

Okay? You should just, I just feel like that's something, and maybe sports have taught me that, where if you see somebody that's successful, it's like, okay, let me go, let me see what the fuck this guy's doing. Let me see why he's successful, and then I'm gonna do my thing. And in the NFL, they say, hey,

if you see a vet in your position, go and be in his back pocket, because something he did has gotten him to this place. So if you take that same concept and you apply it to just life in general, when you hear Tom Brady speak, you should listen and just be like, okay, what am I potentially going to get out of this? When he talked to Howard Stern and he did that hour and a half conversation or whatever with Howard Stern, and this was immediately following him leaving New England there were some things he said in there where I felt like I was like I got better as a

person in there because whenever the 28-3 game was mentioned he was like I had to figure out a way to reframe it in my mind as if so he was like so everything in his is like how do I reframe this situation in my head so it doesn't beat me but I make the best of it because Tom Brady is the most competitive human walking anybody that's ever been around him says he's great teammate most head so it doesn't beat me but i make the best of it because tom brady is the most competitive human walking anybody that's ever been around him says he's great teammate most competitive guy ever so whenever he drops little tidbits of that you're like okay so that's how the fucking goat that's how that person does it today whenever he talked to strahan there were some things he said that were very interesting oh yeah he talked about the chips on his shoulder and how when he went

down to tampa and people said he wasn't good at work it's uh something that motivated him and you know now the debate is across the sports debate shows is is it good that he's still motivated by chips on his shoulder or whatever he said i was always kind of motivated by people that say you can't do it you're not good enough you're not fast enough not big enough and that's an exclusive with michael strahan on good morning america tom br Brady said that exact quote. And now the conversation is, is it good that he stays motivated with this? It's like, hey, everybody at the top of most of their fields, whenever they lay their head down at night or whatever,

quietly, they hear what everybody says. They see what everybody says and there is something inside of them that is like oh can't wait for when that motherfucker has to eat that like I cannot wait now there would never be a moment where Tom Brady will see some random Twitter person or some random show host in person he goes hey you remember when you said I couldn't do it and I did it it's not that it's just the satisfaction of knowing when it happens like okay that guy's a stooge uh that person's a fucking stooge you can eat it okay you said i couldn't i did and there's always going to be that i think drew breeze told us that last year on radio road down there at the super bowl he was like i was like do you hear what people say some people have said on this table like you hear that he hear that? He's like, oh, yeah, I'll take all of that.

Everybody does that. The thing he said this morning, though, that's captivating everybody is, after 20 years of doing something and having a lot of success doing it, you kind of get locked in. He said the fascinating thing about going down to Tampa is, hey, there's another way of doing things. And that other way of doing things, by the way, is the Bruce Arians way of doing things. And what Tom way of doing things, by the way, is the Bruce Arians way of doing things.

And what Tom Brady said about Bruce Arians was he's a great motivator. He's got a great feel for the team, a great pulse for what's going on in the locker room, great intuition, great evaluation of talent. And when you're in one place for 20 years, you think that's the only way. And I think when you go to a different place, you realize, wow, there's another way that people do things. So automatically that goes, wow, there's another way that people do things. So automatically that goes, wow, he just buried New England. I don't think that's the case at all. I think this

is the classic, hey, there's two different ways to do things. I think if you've had a chance to be in a team that was led by a, you know, like a hard nose, no bullshit, we're here strictly for business coach. And then you're also on a player coach team. You can very see how there are different ways to be successful. But for a long time, the narrative was you can't be on a player friendly coach team and have success. Pete Carroll flipped that around a little bit. But now, I mean. Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. No, but Pete Carroll Flipped that around Obviously the Tampa Bay Buccaneers Now Andy Reid Over at the Chiefs I mean now it's a Whole new era

But I think also Tom Brady Realizing that a Different way to do Things not just Personally and how You act and everything Like that

But also like the Way this team was Constructed It's like hey We put together An absolute arsenal Of people on this team Kansas City Chiefs Are doing it I think if you're Looking at your team And you're wondering If they're going to Be good or not it's like hey we were we put together an absolute arsenal of people on this team kansas chiefs are

doing it i think if you're looking at your team and you're wondering if they're going to be good or not just look directly at their weapons now you have to have a quarterback you have to have a defense it's worth a fuck but look directly at their weapons and if it's deep they're probably going to have a chance because injuries are going to come uh at some of those positions and if you can just fill in place and still move the ball and still score points You're in a beautiful fucking spot Obviously we don't think he buried the Patriots But him saying great evaluator of talent

And then when you look back at you know The New England wide receivers drafted from 2010 to 2019 You could think hey maybe he is talking about Bill isn't the greatest You know offensive mind when it comes to Seeing draft picks, wide receivers, especially Nikhil Harry.

We can go down the line, Aaron Dobson, Cambril Tompkins, who is in a sticky situation right now. But you could see how people are directing, hey, he's just burying New England. Yeah, and everything he said in that Howard Stern interview, they said, oh, he's burying Bill, he's burying Bill. And I assume that's how it's going to be forever. But maybe Tom's just like, no, this is how I'm viewing. I don't have to bury somebody else to lift somebody up.

And we kind of have that problem in society. Whenever you compliment one person, that means you're shitting on everybody else. Charles Davis alluded to that yesterday. He was like, Daniel Jeremiah, who, in my opinion, is the best draft evaluator that there is. And he was like, now I have to say, I do work directly next to him. So my opinion is the best draft evaluator that there is and he was like now i have to say i do work directly next to him so my opinion is biased but that is kind of how everybody oh you you think you think uh mel kuyper stinks is that right oh you think todd mcshay's like no no no no no no i'm just letting you know what i think about this but this person is unbelievable what they do i

think tom is talking directly about Bruce Arians. But I don't think he's trying to bury Bill. But everybody's going to take it that way. Let's talk about a world champion. Let's talk about a man from Miami who's now a Tampa Bay Buccaneer, ladies and gentlemen. Levante David. What's up, dude? What up, what up, what up?

How y'all doing? Hey, we're great. How are you, man? Great, man. I can't complain at all. Hey, good for you. World champion. How's it feel?

You were down in Tampa a long time. Now, all of a sudden, you're a world champion. It looks like you guys might, you know, go for two, go for three down there. How's it feel to be a Tampa Bay Buccaneer, Levante David? Glory to God, man. Glory to God. You know, for eight years of my career, man, I've been real skeptical, you know,

but now we was able to turn things around, man, get to where I always thought we would get to and finally become myself a Super Bowl champion after all those, you know, hard seasons or whatever. I feel really good, man. Well, it's not just those hard seasons, by the way. You go back to high school, those early morning workouts, college, whenever you're, you know, mvp in every game you play and juco it's just like all those things you're hoping to one day be a world champion plus the eight

years in tampa now you are i hope you've enjoyed it it looked like your entire team did on those boats huh you guys had a good time out on those boats levante yeah great time one of the first times i ever been part of something like that you know uh they got the idea from the town bay lightning and uh we follow suit man we see why they did it man it was real fun everybody was just being themselves everybody was out there having fun man and the city city of town definitely enjoyed it and it was very fun to see everybody come out and support us. See, normally those Super Bowl celebrations are so big and so important because that's the last time that team is going to be together because in the NFL, teams turn over.

I mean, what the Chiefs were able to do after winning the Super Bowl last year with keeping a large majority of their players in the house, including the bottom half of their roster. That's not normal. You guys followed suit, were able to basically keep everybody in Tampa. Whenever you think about the thoughts of, this could be a dynasty-like run here, Levante, that has to be pretty exciting. Did Bruce tell the team, like, hey, we're going to keep this band together? He said that in the celebration, but has that been something you think that was a priority down there even as the playoff run was going,

or did you expect potentially people to leave after you guys won? I felt like that was the plan all along. I felt like those guys got together and said, you know, they saw how everybody bonded with each other, how everybody got along with each other, and I felt like that was something they wanted to do. And for them to keep everybody intact, man, it was really huge because definitely some guys

who, you know, definitely was deserving of the bag, you may say, you know. So we was able to, you know, they was able to get everything worked out, man, and get everybody back. Like I said, it was real rare, man. But everybody wanted to be back. That was the main thing.

That's where it all starts. Everybody got to want to be back here. I mean, obviously, we were in the Super Bowl. That's going to happen. Everybody's going to want to be back. That was the main thing. That's where it all starts. Everybody got to want to be back. I mean, you obviously, we were in the Super Bowl. That's going to happen. Everybody going to want to come back. So it was able to work out the numbers and get guys back,

man. And hats off to those guys in the organization, man. Hats off to BA for wanting everybody back and hats off to Jason and Mike Greenberg for getting the job done. Mike Greenberg, by the way, this meant we've just learned of him. Mike Greenberg,

by the way, for a long time in everybody's life was Mike and Mike. Then get up. But now the Mike Greenberg that is potentially going to be studied for years to come is the salary cap guru basically down there in Tampa who is figuring out how to keep everybody in there. There's voidable years. There's salaries being moved.

There's this happening, this less money. It is really intriguing what's going on. It's this happening. There's less money. It is really intriguing what's going on. It's going to set the tone going forward. Enough contract talk. Let's talk about Bruce Arians. As soon as he gets in the building, what immediate changes? Now, it's not just him. There's a lot of other old-ass coaches that have been floating around with BA for a long time that get down in there. What was your first, like, you know, when you noticed that crew got in there? It was like, okay, this is going to be different maybe than what it was in the past. What has Bruce kind of done to that Tampa Bay Buccaneer squad, do you think?

I mean, yeah, man. When I first talked to Bruce, he called me on the phone after he got the job. You know, he already viewed me as a leader. He already watched me, you know, throughout the league. He said, you know, I was a great football player. So he reached out to me, you know, and told me, you know, things are going to change and it's got to change with leadership and it's got to be a culture change and we're going to get the right guys in,

the right people in the organization to make that happen. And he definitely did that, man. He made us a tough football team. You know, he put a lot of playmakers out there and he built through the draft and kind of built through, you know, free agency, getting guys in and kind of working with where he already at and then adding more pieces because he already knew he was a talented football team. You know, he wouldn't have took the job if he didn't know we have no talent.

So for him to come in and, you know, just change the program around and change the culture of the program in two years is really, you know, impressive to see. I mean, B.A. is a respectful guy, man. Everybody respects him. All the simple fact that he's real. You know, he's a real coach. He's genuine.

And he's straightforward with you. And with him, man, you know, a lot of people always say this, but some really don't mean it, but he has a real open-door policy. If you want to come in and talk to him, whatever. If you want to hit him up on the phone, he'll answer. You know, tell you how it is. you know, tell him what he's thinking, tell you what he's thinking and how to kind of get your mindset of how, you know, to help get the team on the same page and stuff like that.

So it's real cool, man, to be around a guy like that. And, man, he got the great staff around to kind of, like, help him out. And, you know really it's very different from what i've experienced in the past yeah me too whenever he took over the year whenever chuck pagano was diagnosed with leukemia and he had to go to the hospital just four weeks into a new stint ba become like the became like the interim head coach or whatever in his transparency in his genuineness like in his authenticity it was like the way he would talk he would talk shit he would respond he would be emotional he would be like it was like

he was one of us almost you know he felt like he was like one of us it was the first time i felt as if like okay he's like a player almost he wants to talk shit and win just as bad as we do and it was like okay i immediate respect. That's why I thought when he went on TV, it wasn't going to be great because his first week, he goes, oh, that guy wide-ass open while he was running over here. And it was a good clip. And CBS was like, hey, you can't do that. And I'm like, well,

you literally just got rid of why Bruce is Bruce. You know what I mean? And then when Bruce brings in Todd Bowles as defensive coordinator, I mean, the defense early, whenever he gets there, not great. End of season, gets very good that first year. Then last year, that defense, a couple injuries happened. But whenever you guys got back, it felt like the defense was a team that could go on a run.

And obviously, you guys did. But talk about Todd. Talk about the defense. You got everybody back somehow on that defensive side of the ball feels like you're only going to get better devin white's riding his horse on the fucking stadium fearless i mean there's a lot going on down there you have to feel really juiced about what's going on defensive side as well yeah i love it i love it i mean when i first talked to todd bowman he reached out to me you know i said you know uh i know you're playing a pro three your

whole life man but you know we're going to change some things. We're going to switch it up, but you're going to feel comfortable with it. Me, obviously playing in a 4-3 defense my whole entire career, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how things were going to change and things like that. After playing it that first year,

I'm like, man, I don't want to go back to a 4-3. I want to stay in a 4-4 style defense. The way he does things, man, he sets guys up to make plays, man. He gives guys freedom to do what they need to do to make plays. And he's definitely one of those coaches, too, who's very transparent, man. If you got a problem with something, he'll come in. He's open to you talking to him how you could change it or whatever to make it help everybody else because he understands it. He gets it. You know, he played defense to you talking to him how you could change it or whatever to make it help everybody else because he understands it.

He gets it. You know, he played defense, so he gets it. He knows that, you know, this might be a hard thing for you to do, so let me switch it up and make it easy for not just you but for everybody around that's on the field. And that's something that, you know, he takes pride in. And I feel like that's why a lot of guys play hard for him, man, because he's real.

He's fun to play with, man. You know, he's always on the sideline. He's like y'all got that serious face on him. But he's always joking around. He likes to play around, too. He's real competitive. You know, when we go against the offense, you know, he give us that competitive nature, man. Like he want to dominate our offense just like how we want to dominate other offenses on the field.

So he's real competitive, competitive man throughout the whole year. He's definitely somebody that is fun to play with. Levante, let's talk about, let's say you said real competitive and everything like that. Let's talk about when Tom Brady comes into the building. Okay. And I was, you know, I say stupid things in a microphone on a daily basis, try to cover the daily happenings in the sports world. When Tom Brady was a free agent, I was like you know, I say stupid things in a microphone on a daily basis, try to cover the daily happenings in the sports world. When Tom Brady was a free agent, I was like, okay,

so every team should be calling Tom Brady to get him in there, strictly because I was very lucky to be on a team where Peyton Manning was. I was very lucky to be on a team where Andrew Luck was. It was like when you have a guy, like a guy got, like it is, the trainers are better, the equipment managers are better, the chefs are better, everybody's better are better. The chefs are better. Everybody's better because it's like, okay, we got a dude. When Tom gets in there, what is it like immediately?

Do you see a raise or a heightened accountability by people? What was it like as soon as he got in that building? It's exactly what you said, man. Everything has changed. Everything has changed. Everything is basically based on the players, man that everything is based and fit on the players you know with tom's and you feel like man this gotta be done perfect some food gotta be perfect strength style gotta be perfect the nutrition style gotta be perfect the uh man whatever it is the sports science guys gotta

be perfect man like everybody was just on point man it just it was a different field different definitely different field man but tom is just a real genuine guy man he's a great guy to be around too as well he's always smiling he loves he loves the game of football he loved just being around the guy and um one thing i did respect about tom man i do respect about tom was like first thing he said man like i'm coming to you guys locker room i mean don't look at me no different you know i'm coming to you guys locker locker room. I mean, don't look at me no different. You know, I'm coming to you guys' locker room. I'm coming to earn you guys' respect. And he just said, man, don't treat him no different.

And just, you know, treat him just like one of the guys. You know, crack jokes with me. You know, talk BS with me. You know, talk trash to me when you're on the field. You know, it was just going to be like, just treat me like one of the fellas, man. That's all I ask from you guys. I'm going to go out there and put my best foot forward.

We can see why he's one of the greatest of all time. How about him? At this point, Tom, I assume everywhere he goes, people are like, oh, Tom Brady, Tom Brady. He comes to a team and he's like, listen, I need you to talk shit to me. This is what I'm going to need. This is what I have to have.

Let's just get this out there. You might feel a certain way. I understand. I need you to be a human towards me because if not, it won't work. Connor, what do you have? Yeah, Levante, we had Vita Vey on, and he gave us a little tidbit about the team or him at least calling in Don Con Su. What's his name?

Big Girl. What was his name? What was his actual name, though? I was just going to say Sue, but I figured I'd try and, you know, sneak it in there. Yeah, okay. Did you ever partake in calling Sue Big Girl? I never called Sue Big Girl, but I did used to call. It's a crazy guy because I used to call Vito Big Girl.

So he just – It was like it was a teammate of mine named Daniel Lansana a couple years ago. He used to call Donovan Smith big girl. And then I started calling him, called Donovan big girl. And I called Vita big girl. And now Vita called Sue big girl. So it's a transpiring thing that's happening, you know. So, but they got it.

They took it and ran with it though. They, it's kind of like they thing now, I guess. Listen, your words and other people's words, not mine. The two big girls you got on defensive line, the adding in there was Shaq and you. I mean, it is – the defense is scary. It is a scary sight. And then Dominick and Sue came out and said,

which Vita Veya calls him big girl. We do not. No. We would never in a million do. He came out and said, hey, whatever the team needs, basically. He's at the point of his career, I think, where he was the highest paid player in the NFL at one point whenever he went to Miami, I think, out of Detroit.

He's made a lot of money. Now he's a Super Bowl champion. I assume more Super Bowl championship rings for him, the better. But what is he like? Because there for a long time, I think he kind of disappeared off the radar when he went to Miami. I think people stopped talking about him. But there was a time there where, like,

this is the most dominant force in football within Dominican Sioux. Last year, especially towards the end during the playoffs, we saw some Sioux moments that were stupid alongside when Vida Veda got back. That D-line in there, the big guys, your guys called big girls, they eat in there. It's a real thing. Yeah, for real.

I mean, like you said, man, at the beginning when you said, you know, Sue said whatever he needs, whatever the team needs, you know, that's the type of team that we have now, man. Everybody just sacrifice and do what they have to do for the better part of the team. And then it all starts with B.A. I feel like he set that culture up and it was just trickling down to guys. You got a guy like Sue who had all the success he had in the league come out and say that

means a lot. And then, like you said, man, I've been fortunate enough to play behind two of the great three techniques in the game. Jerry McCoy and then Jonathan Sue. So, it's definitely fun playing around behind him and beat a man.

You got to account for those guys. There's no way that you could just pass those guys up. You got to be two guys, man, to take on both of them to help guys like me and Devin fly around and run free. And then you got Will Ghost and you got Shaq and J.P. who's dominant in their own rights.

So it's definitely one of the most scary front sevens I've been a part of. Yeah, I'd say. Your front seven, I think it was ranked the best in the league. I mean, it's only going to get better as you guys continue to grow together. We talked to Clyde Christensen. Do you know who Clyde Christensen is?

Yeah. My coach. He's a cool dude, man. I don't know if you know him well enough. You should get to know him. He is a great dude. He came on, though, and I think it's just because he doesn't like going home ever, you know. But he was like, I really wish, right, like I wish we had, right, like eight more weeks.

I know the Super Bowl is this week, but it feels like our team, if we had eight more weeks, we would be even better. Right, right, right. Like we're starting to gel. Right, like we're starting to come together. But do you all feel that way? Like you guys feel as if, like that Super Bowl game, you looked, I mean, everything, it was just dominant. You guys feel like that is what is,

you guys feel like you're just not even close to your max right now, huh? It still wasn't even our best game. You know, that's the bad part about it, it wasn't our best game. And, you know, like Clyde said, man, we felt like it was everything was just going, rising. Everybody just getting better and better. People understanding better. I mean, I don't know

about, it could have been eight movies. I don't know about that. I was ready to be down. I was ready for the season. Hey, 17 games next year. 17 games next year. Is that changing anything for you? Going on, what, year nine, year 10 at this point? Year 10, man.

Hopefully, man, the coaching staff does a great job just taking care of guys that need to be taken care of, man, and make sure everybody's ready, you know, week in and week out. I mean, for me personally, man, I love the game of football. I mean, it adds another game to go out there and play the game that I love. But at the same time, you got to think about how draining it can be, you know, mentally and obviously physically. So at the same time, you got to think about how draining it can be mentally and obviously physically. So hopefully

people have things in place where they can take care of the guys to help them last that long. Yeah, I hope so too. As a fan and as a media member now, we love it. Hey, make those guys. Let's spread this thing out over 12 months. Let's give them 14 bye weeks. Let's go ahead and have

75 games. Let's go. Let's do this thing. But it's just not realistic, especially because towards the end of the season, there's a lot of guys crawling to the finish line because of nagging injuries. Mentally as well, you brought that up. That never gets talked about. It's always like the physical aspect. It's like mentally too. There's a lot going on there. Last question for you here

before we let you go. Can't thank you enough for your time, by the way. We really appreciate this. What is it about South Florida, boys, dude? Like, what is it? Why is Miami and South Florida just this haven of NFL guys? It feels like it used to be, okay, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Texas was big, California was big. There's been a couple states.

But it feels like South Florida, in particular, is really trying to change the game completely. Is it just like everybody loves football down there? Do you start as soon as you're – Clint Session, who is one of my teammates, he said whenever he was like, I forget, maybe 12 or 13 or something, he was in between buildings in the neighborhood, full pads on with the entire neighborhood, and they were doing – he was doing full Oklahoma drills. He was like a 12-year-old in front of the the neighborhood, full pads on with the entire neighborhood,

and they were doing, he was doing full Oklahoma drills. He was like a 12-year-old in front of the entire hood, basically. Is that just how it is? Like, hey, we play football down here? Is that why? It's definitely how it is, man. A lot of guys start football when they're about five or six years old, and then you got guys from different neighborhoods, man,

that you grew up around, that you compete with, you know, not with organized football, but just street football, you compete with them. When you finally play organized football, you get your pass, and then they get their pass, and you battle, you battle it out. You know, you just go out there, like you said, you do, you call it hamburger drills. You know, I had a friend who stayed down the street from me who played for

one part, and I played for the other part, and it was like, man, when you get your pass, we're going to do hamburger drills. So that's just how it was, man, at a young age, man. Everything is just real competitive, man. Like people say, man, we just built different. I would say, man, everybody down here, man, once you get in the game of football down here, man, you just compete.

And you're just going to fall. Hey, is this narrative absolute bullshit? I'm assuming the answer is yes, and science has proven this. But you know what they say, South Florida boys can't play in the cold. Can't play in the cold. Too warm down there. Can't play in the cold. I mean, nah, I mean, we don't like

cold, but if football being played, we're going to ball out. We're going to find a way to stay warm and ball. You got to do what you got to do. Congrats on the Super Bowl. Congrats on a hell of a career thus far. Can't wait to see what you do. We appreciate your time immensely, Levante. Appreciate you, Pat, as always, man.

Thank you. Hey, listen, hamburger drills. Get them going, you know what I mean? Week 17, week 18, let's get some hamburger drills. Ladies and gentlemen, Levante David. Thank you. People go through many changes as we get older, isn't that right? Oh, yeah.

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Thank you, Roman. Thank you, Roman. Thank you, Roman. Join us now, ladies and gentlemen, head coach of the Ole Miss Rebels football squad, ladies and gentlemen, Lane Kiffin. Yeah! How you doing, Lane?

Great, Pat. Good to be back. Hey, it's great to have you. You know, the last time we talked and then I watched the season, I'm like, you know, I cannot wait to talk to that guy. What a moment you had running down the field, throwing the fucking play card. Did you enjoy the year? How was the year as a whole? Because going into the season, throwing the fucking play card. Did you enjoy the year? How was the year as a whole? Because going into the season, I remember you thought there was, you know,

some question marks on how everything was going to go. Did you enjoy it? How do you feel here one year after the COVID season? I did. You know, it was very strange, obviously, not having spring practice as a first-year staff. And I had no idea what to expect. And you're playing an all-SEC schedule on top of that.

So there were some exciting times. We screwed up some games, you know, that really should have won, you know, at the end of the game. And so those kind of haunt you through the offseason because, you know, people are excited to hear that we won the Outback Bowl and, you know, won some SEC games and played a lot of really close games. But really, we had a great opportunity to really knock some people off and screw it up.

So that's why we've got to get better in a year or two. How was it getting back in the SEC? I heard you say that, like an all-SEC schedule. It was made that way because COVID, but you are back in the SEC now full-time. How is it back in there? And did you miss, I guess you can't really tell because the fans weren't really there, but did you miss SEC football? Well, it kind of

felt like Conference USA, actually. So, I had practice at that. So, you know, but the players were different, obviously. So, you know, coming back to the SEC, you know, no matter who you're playing, I've always said, especially, you know, coming back to the SEC, they're just, you know,

no matter who you're playing, I've always said, especially, you know, it used to be defensively, now it's both sides. There's always just dominant players that you've got to game plan for on all teams in the SEC. So coming back to that, you know, is exciting. And you've got great coaches. And especially, you know, right now as you look at coaches around the conference, you've got legendary coaches in And especially, you know, right now, as you look at coaches around the conference, you got legendary coaches in this conference, you know,

number of guys that have won national championships. I think last year there were four of them that had won national championships. So, you know, that's why it's the highest level. And SEC has been that way for a long time. But I think now it's really, you know, it's really pulled away. And I'm sure you'll see it again in this draft, just like a number of the last drafts.

There's just such a difference, especially last year. Just felt like any time you'd watch some other football, it was just like a different division almost. Yeah, different speed almost is kind of what you see out there. And we're talking to legendary coach Lane Kiffin back at Ole Miss, head coach down there after leaving the SEC for a bit. Now, I want to talk to you at some point eventually about the transition from going from college quarterback to NFL quarterback because you've coached both levels very highly

and why some guys just won't pan out. But before I get to that, I have to ask you about Saban last week, I think. He talked about how he used to believe, hey, we need to run the ball, we need defense, we need special teams. He said if you feel that way now, though, basically you're an idiot. Like the game has changed completely. You've always been an offensive-minded guy. How do you feel about the way the game is going, where the game is going,

and do you think this is going to continue, or do you think that old-school smash-mouth football is going to return at some point well I think in order to succeed you got to get out of you know liking or disliking where it's going and realizing that's where it is you know and so better get with the times we've said that for a long time we've seen coaches that have been stubborn and tried to stay in their ways especially offensivelyly, and, you know, costing their jobs. So it's totally changed. And now defenses, I think defenses are catching up, even though you don't see it maybe with the scores, but just the way they play players

and people aren't running all over trying to get lined up. They've kind of figured out, I think some teams have, all right, you know, just to line up, play field and boundary players, and not try to have all the rules you used to have because, you know, you just see teams go fast and people really struggle with that. Guys just wide open all over the field. talk this year, a lot of the safeties and corners, they said that the younger guys were actually the hardest to cover. The young wide receivers, for whatever reason, this last draft class, I'd assume it's going to happen going forward. Do you think that the wide receivers, because of the way the offenses are in college right now, are much more NFL ready,

especially because you've been in the NFL now? And do you think that's just a trend that's going to continue? I've not thought of it that way. do you think that's just a trend that's going to continue? I've not thought of it that way. I just think, you know, there happen to be some really, really good young ones last year and now again in this class coming up that are able to make the transition. And so I don't know that it's necessarily the offenses, you know, because there used to be a lot more pro-style offenses, you know, that were in college just like we used to be and getting guys, you know, more, you know, prepared to

do exactly what they're going to do at the next level. Now we've moved a little bit from that, still have elements, but I'm not really sure of that. How do you feel about the pro-style quarterback? You know, the guys that are pocket passers, that's a highly sought after conversation right now because obviously the Mack Jones convovo with justin fields the trey lance out there and trevor can run everybody seems to be able how do you feel about the future of like a pocket passer you think that's dead well i don't think it's dead i would i would put mac jones in that category and they just

won national championship basically blew out everybody that played. So I think it works, obviously. They set a lot of records there. You've got to have the right, no matter who your quarterback is, I think you need to have the right pieces around them. And so if you have a pocket passer, you know, you're going to need people to stretch the field more because you're not going to run the guy as much,

and that's what they had at Alabama with, you know, the great receivers. So I think it's putting the pieces around it always. And the quarterback's always hard to evaluate. And we see it all the time. The NFL guy's not very good at one spot. He gets drafted somewhere and he goes to another place. You know, coaches get, you know, too much blame and too much credit for winning and losing because a lot of it's about the players that we have. The same thing with the quarterbacks.

Quarterbacks go into a different culture and different players around them and all of a sudden perform much better than the team they were at before. So the same basketball where you can just do it yourself and take over a game. You've got to have a lot of things around you to be a really good quarterback quarterback you got a chance to see a lot of these quarterbacks i'd assume that are coming out this year and with your experience of growing up basically in nfl families and everything like that you think that these guys because last year joey burrow by all accounts great uh gonna be a great pro if he can keep his head though because there was a game last year where it looked like he actually lost his head because he got hit so hard and so often. So hopefully

they'll be able to protect him. Justin Herbert, he's balling. He's going to be on his way. Tua, I guess the jury's still out on that, but it's not easy for young quarterbacks to make the trade. There's only 32 jobs, you know, and I think that is something that kind of gets lost in this entire thing how do you feel about these young guys that are potentially going to the nfl and have you got a chance to even watch them or do you care about that at all now that you're full-time old miss yeah i don't get to watch them you know like like the nfl teams do or draft experts and things but um just, again, it's what guys are drafted into, what's around them has so much to do with it. We see it all the time.

And like you said, there's only 32 jobs, and you don't get to, you know, be a receiver, a corner, a linebacker. Oh, we're going to rotate in and play half the game and, you know, develop the guy, you know, as the season goes on. If you're not the guy, for the most part, you don't play and

so um in such a almost impossible position to truly be accurate in evaluations because in college we we get very little time to evaluate them very little in person nfl you're unlimited with your meetings with them how much you see, all the film study from college and the workouts and everything, pro days. And they still bust half the time with all of that. So it's just a really hard thing to evaluate. And just because you were good in college, as you see, doesn't translate to the NFL. And, again, a lot of that is where were you at in college

and what was your system, what was the culture, and what were the players around you? You're saying it sounds like this is real. And I assume this is your entire motto with building up that Ole Miss team. It's like a lot of pressure gets put on the quarterback to be, it's a win-loss stat basically is for the quarterback. What you're saying is there is zero real way to evaluate how one person's doing over another person. Because, for instance, we had a graphic we put up earlier. Patrick Mahomes, the weapons that he has is fucking awesome. Now, he's a quarterback that can make every single play, every single throw.

Andy Reid also draws things up. Tom Brady down at Tampa Bay, the amount of weapons that they have is just unbelievable. If we were to judge Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes, who are going to go down Mount Rushmore quarterbacks in the history of the NFL, probably Patrick Mahomes is going to win nearly as much as Tom Brady wins Super Bowl-wise. But whenever you look at their offensive weapons compared to other people, you're saying it's impossible to evaluate how quarterbacks are going to do unless you know the situation they're going into? Yeah, and not just the weapons. That's probably the most important, but what is the culture that's around them, you know, and what's the coaching that they're going to get?

Because again, we see that all the time, you know, a coordinator comes in or goes and all of a sudden the quarterback gets better or worse when he loses them. So there's so many variables to that spot. Again, no disrespect to things, but if you're a great cover corner, coaching probably ain't that important, terrible. And the rest of your team's not that important. You can cover the guy or you can't. Quarterback's a whole other animal. Oh, man, that's awesome.

Ty, what do you have? Coach, based on what you've seen so far in the spring, do you feel like you and your staff have kind of made up for that lost time last year? Like, are things kind of opened up and you guys are all back in the building, or there's still restrictions? Do you know what to expect for the upcoming season? Well, I think defensively it's helped us a lot. I think that in general, if you looked at first-year staffs, some did well offensively, but most of them struggled defensively because you had no spring ball with your guys to learn scheme and to tackle. So I think that showed up a lot.

So hopefully having spring is going to help us a lot in that area. But as far as the COVID part, for the most part, we're back to normal now. Oh, nice. Does everybody have to get – we talked to Mack Brown. I think he said as long as everybody there got vaccinated, they're allowed to do whatever the hell they want. Is that kind of the SEC thing too? Do you know? We're still one test a week.

I believe vaccine does get you out of that for a while though, yes. Connor, what do you have? Yeah, Coach, how often will NFL teams call you about your players or even players that you coached against? And then how many times do you read something about a player that you know is a stud that is burying them and is just absolute bullshit? There you go. Well, we get some calls, probably not as much as you think.

I think that, again, no disrespect, I think a lot of people in the NFL that think, okay, well, we've got to figure it out. We don't need, you know, opinions from college guys. And that may sound crazy to you, but that does happen. And I was there, I remember going to the Raiders and saying, all right, on every draft prospect, the position coach called the college position coach, you know, asked the intangibles, asked what they think of them, and they all looked at me like, we're going to do what?

We don't need their opinions. So I think that that probably happens a lot. But I know there's guys like Bilicek that personally, I remember a guy getting like the third round night before the draft, him calling me to ask my opinion on him, you know, not even a first round pick. So, you know, some people do it. And I think a lot of people don't.

But as far as different reports and stuff, I mean, that's why they have so much ability to research things and not go off, you know, what some media guy says about how a guy prepares or doesn't. That was directly on Orlovsky right there. Yeah. I think that was directly on Orlovsky, and I do love what yousky right there. I think that was directly at Orlovsky. And I do love what you

just did there. When Belichick calls you, does he ask about like, uh, how he fits it? What, what are the questions? If like, it's like, that's the type of stuff, right? The film stuff. Cause I can see them being like, Hey, we don't need college football minds telling us. I could see the arrogance of an NFL person saying that, but to ask a head coach about how he fits in with the team and everything that just seems like a natural question I mean that that makes that seems to make a lot of sense is that what they're asking about and why doesn't that um really good ones um like him you know he's so smart he'll call and say I remember it was a tight end when you're and he's like okay I remember you had Zach Miller you know 10 years ago at the

Raiders or whatever it was. How do you compare him to him? You know, just that's how smart he is to be able to remember who you had and players you were around and compare them to. You know, that's why he's so great at that. Oh, man, that would be awesome. Why is everybody not doing that? That seems like a very natural move.

Hey, listen, I need to find out what this human's like. I'm about to invest a couple million dollars potentially, and I should call the people that were with him every day for the last at least three and a half years. Makes no sense. What's next on the docket for the Ole Miss Rebels? Spring ball happening right now? We're about to wrap it up.

Do we have a spring game? What's going on? We do in a couple weeks. We're halfway through. And then we have the Grove Bowl to wrap things up. So again, it's been good defensively to get guys out there. We had some transfers that had to sit out last year and a lot of mid-year players in here to help us defensively.

So our quarterback, Matt Crowell, comes back from a really good season at times and so for him to improve offensively. How's your relationship with your quarterbacks? I'd like to think pretty good. I think that Matt and I have gotten along real well. You know, really easy kid to get along with. Wants to be great.

Kind of laid back California personality. So he says we get along because of that, I guess. But, you know, he's really special. All right. Well, good luck to you. Good luck to Matt. We appreciate your time. I love the trophies behind you. Can't wait to see you win some more down there with Ole Miss. I assume your name is going to be one that's highly sought after

for a lot of gigs. Excited to see you do whatever the hell you do in this wild football life that you've had. Ladies and gentlemen, Lane Kiffin. Thank you. Can't apologize enough for interrupting the conversation, but I want to let you know, sometimes Mother Nature doesn't always play nice. Like right now.

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Going to need four or five of these just to get out of the office today. Back to the show. This is going to get very fascinating. I'm pumped for it. Shots of twine for that beat drop. Joining me right now, A.J. Hawk. A.J., you and I will talk about my golf outing yesterday at a later time. Joining us here in a couple minutes, I don't know if he's on right now or in a minute or two,

we've got a sports psychologist joining us that has the Goldman standard, and I don't think I knew it existed before yesterday. Did you? I had no idea. Sanchez is the one who pretty much let me know about it. So is Sanchez potentially the mascot for this thing? He could be. The proctor is in the lab.

That's what we will ask Dr. Goldman. We will say, excuse me, Doc, is Sanchez a part of the company? How did this whole thing happen? And how do we not know about it? I want to know. This feels like this is a very important test. It's been tested, it's been tried, it's been trued. Ladies and gentlemen, joining us now, one of the most established sports psychologists

walking this earth, a man who has a test that is given out to over 6,500 professional athletes that tests their personality, their brain, everything like that. Dr. Scott Gold. Doc, how's it going? It's going well. I hope I can live up to that introduction. Well, Doc, listen, I'm going to be honest. Had no clue you existed before yesterday, but then we started doing some research on you. And Mark Sanchez, do you know Mark Sanchez? And did you know he was going to potentially let the world know

about the Goldman standard just yesterday on the show when talking about Justin Fields? So I do know Mark Sanchez, but not very well. We're just new acquaintances, but I really respect and value his intellect and his insight. The fact that you didn't know me is actually purposeful and strategic. I tend to not really put myself in front of cameras. One of my mentors once had this great line where he said, it's very easy to see which way the cameras are pointed. You can stand in front of them or behind

them. And the way that I've chosen to do my work for the last 20 years has always been to be of service of humility and to be behind the cameras and let the coaches and the athletes really shine so i'm actually kind of this is a little bit of an uncomfortable spot for me but um when you all called and asked and i have such respect for your work and your show i was like okay let's give this a shot and see what it's like okay thank you oh i think we're echoing. You might have to move the, uh, the thing. No. Am I still echoing? No. Okay. We're good. Um, thank you for coming on the show. Then if this is not a normal thing at all, we appreciate the hell out of your time. Uh, if you respect this show though, I do believe that potentially knocks your credibility early, but we're going to talk

about this as we go. Doc, the test that was talked about yesterday, I believe Mark Sanchez was referring to the recall portion of the test. And then there's two portions of the test. What is the test trying to do? And who are paying you to get the results of these tests? And is that how that works? Are you like an independent contractor for teams and organizations and what do the tests tell us can you just tell us more basically about what you've created here sure so um the test is called the athletic intelligence

quotient or aiq thank you and and as far as like the service or how it's set up so i actually have um two roles. So one is as a sports psychologist and I've been contracted by several professional teams, as well as several NCAA teams to be an embedded sports psychologist where I worked with their players or coaches and their front office. And I've been doing that for about 20 years. So that's just me. The test itself, we brought it to market in 2012.

My partner, Jim Bowman, and I, we started creating it in 1998. And we actually before, so it was about 15 years before we even brought it to market, because we really wanted to be rigorous in our scientific discovery. I mean, we really spent a lot of time making sure, because you can't see one's intelligence, right? Like you can see one's height, but you can't see one's intelligence. So we put a lot of time and effort into making sure that the test had the integrity that it does. The way I would describe it, the way I describe it to GMs and head coaches, The way I would describe it, the way I describe it to GMs and head coaches, for example, and this is such an oversimplification, but there's basically four buckets to a comprehensive athletic profile, right? There's the physical, there's the experience. So, for example, grabbing a defensive lineman from Clemson or a linebacker from Alabama, you know, what kind of system of offense or defense they run, what they've been exposed to. what kind of system of offense or defense they run, what they've been exposed to.

Then there's intelligence, which is simply defined as the ability to acquire, process, and apply information. And then the fourth bucket is personality. You know, what's their work ethic like? Are they going to be a locker room poison, et cetera? So the AIQ is strictly focused on that third bucket of intelligence, which is, again, how do they solve? So my partner and I, what we did was, as we said, sports is defined as an unsolvable puzzle in a chaotic situation. What are the cognitive abilities that a person needs to be successful in that kind of environment? to be successful in that kind of environment. So how is your test different from the Wunderlich?

And do you see your test eventually taking over the Wunderlich and being more important, or do they kind of work hand in hand? And do you hate the Wunderlich? I don't hate anyone, I'll be honest with you. Okay, all right, good. That's very nice of you. I hate them. You know, and I have a tendency to talk more about who we are versus who we're not but because you asked some of the differences are the wonderlick was created in in 1934 um and i think it's a test that's more based on say like logic reasoning uh by contrast uh so

again just to put some perspective i have two phds one's in clinical psychology one's in school psychology hey that's a lot of work a lot of work we are proud of you for that that's so so and that wasn't meant to be a flex it's just not a two phd one phd i i had nowhere near one b I couldn't even imagine two of those things. Well, it's two for the price of two when it came to time and effort. But my partner has a PhD in school psychology. And so what we did was, is we took, it's called the Cattell-Horne-Carroll Theory of Intelligence, CHC theory. And that's the predominant theory of intelligence that's being used. So if you have children or you yourself were ever tested for a learning disability or giftedness, you were given an intelligence we looked at what was the most sport relevant. The other thing that we did that I think is fairly unique was I tapped the coaches that I worked with in Arizona and Michigan

and with the NFL teams that I've worked for, and I asked them to help make some really good analysis and recommendations that aren't just sports specific, but also position specific. So going back to say, talking about a quarterback, the idea here is, here's a cognitive ability like learning efficiency, the ability to download and recall the play. Now that's really valuable for a quarterback who might have to understand the entire playbook as well as assign on the field teammates to their roles or to identify the mic and then put everybody in position according to it similarly it can also be used where let's say

the defense disguises the coverage in the first quarter and it fools the quarterback he can then recognize that same coverage in the fourth quarter and say, okay, you got me in the first quarter, but I can now remember that in the fourth. So he won't be fooled again. Now, that is something that is tough to find, and if you find somebody who can do that, I assume that would be a pretty vital piece of information.

My question for you is not, hey, can you tell us everybody's scores? And I would never expect a doctor to do that. The fact that Mark Sanchez told us a couple of people's scores, we were actually pretty mind-blown about to begin with. But once we heard that Justin Fields did well on this test, and you don't have to confirm nor deny that, but why wouldn't Justin Fields potentially want people to know that? Was, you know, like, is that him or would that be the team?

Like, how come we did not know that justin fields potentially has photographic memory is that what the test is proving and whether or not how come we're not really learning that you think is it because your information is sought after by people that would not want the masses to know that information or do you think it's like what do you think it potentially is you're asking a really good question and all i can say is, I don't know, I would ask those people, you know, again, one of the things is, we've just never exploited the relationships that we've had with the teams that we work for. And we've never exploited, we certainly don't exploit the relationships that we have with the players that are kind enough to engage in this

process with us. So we don't really, we just don't publicly disclose that stuff. I mean, I remember there was a Super Bowl where both teams were using the AIQ and people were coming at me being like, oh, you should be tweeting about how this is an all AIQ Super Bowl and AIQ is. And I just said, look, you know what? I think if you do that,

you're disrespecting the strength coach who worked his butt off to get them strong okay you're like and on and on down the line like it's not just strength coach it's the athletic trainer and the nutritionist and the position coach and the heck like i was just like this is their moment like the fact that the two teams use the aiq value the aiq continue to use the aiq that I'm just grateful for. Do you, I guess, check scores that may have happened a couple years ago and then follow some of these players, whatever the sport may be, and do you see any correlation between

high scores and levels of success that you can say this is a tangible result? And have you had to tweak the test because of that? Yeah, great questions. And have you had to tweak the test because of that? Yeah, great questions. We have not had to tweak the test because, well, let me go back. We tweaked the test based off of the science, but that was before we brought it to market, you know, because we follow the American Psychological Association's ethical guidelines for test construction. I know that might sound kind of boring, but what it is, is it's saying, you know, we just made sure that we were painting

with a really fine brush. Now, going back to the question, and this is something that I'm real proud of and proud for the AIQ is, we collected five years worth of data and we did perform some research that has been published in academic journals where we have found statistically significant correlation with on-field performance. Interceptions and defensive backs, rushing yards and running backs, regardless of when they were drafted. And so I think what's kind of cool, and other stuff too, like false starts and offensive linemen, defensive tackles for losses and sacks, career approximate value, which kind of talks

about their impact to their team. And to my knowledge, we're the only test that really has that kind of connection, but the kind of data that we have, I think that's pretty cool. I'm so impressed by this shit, man. I will let you know that because I'm a big, I think we all are on this particular show. Like it's all what's going on here in between, you know, like your think tank is where everything is going on. There's a lot of, you know, incredibly athletic dudes, okay, there's like, for instance, in my position, there's a lot of dudes that can kick balls very far. There's only a certain amount of people that can really do it for a living, especially do it at a high level. And that's all because of what's going on in the

brain. And it feels uh here as of late we've learned more and more about it but for a long time it was absolutely nothing i i am very pumped to hear that there is potentially a goldman standard for judging now we got to figure out how we got to pay you enough money to release these results so we all know it but this is this is really cool thing you're doing for sports i want to let you you know that, especially because of the success it has had. So congratulations on that. Connor, what do you have? Yeah, on your website, Doctor, it says that you've worked with players from five of the major sports.

Have you tried to get into different sports like Australian football? Oh, yeah. Or, like, does it even affect those type of sports similar to, like, golf? Like, does that test even tell you anything about golfers or no? Yeah, no, it's a great question and actually we have been used so we've been we are under contract with all five major we're under contract with teams from all five major leagues in the u.s but we have also been contacted by international teams as well so um european football um australian rules football rugby they've all tapped into it. Because, again, our original concept was sports is an unsolvable puzzle in a chaotic situation. So even when we

were originally creating the test, we looked at firefighters, police officers, first responders, military, like it was, you know, again, imagine just to use a non-sport related example, you kick a door down and you quickly got to examine the room. Where are the threats? Where are the dangers? Where are the key landmarks? So I don't get lost. Who needs help? All those kinds of things. similar to you know whether it's a an outside midfielder for a european football team or a center fielder in baseball or or a quarterback in football they still all have to kind of scan the field and know where key points of information are what is one of the tests so what are the two tests it's recall and then it's another one for the recall one is it like we've all done baseline tests and we've all done that whole thing and they give you like a series of of numbers then they disappear then they ask you some fake

questions then they ask what those numbers are again the words the whole thing the patterns the what's potentially next is that what the test is or is it something vastly different what is one of the recall like questions look like and how do you score it is it right wrong is it out of 10 how does that whole thing work yeah so god great question so um it's actually this is what you do for a living yeah and you had respect for it which early i was like well i mean kind of turned me off but since then i feel like i i am very very intrigued by everything you've created here so i appreciate you yeah no problem so um we have four broad abilities and 10 narrow abilities. So there's actually 14 points of data that we talk about when going through a report. So even though I talked about

those statistically significant correlations to on-field performance, really the intention of the test was to be a descriptor, not a predictor. And what I mean by that was we're trying to help teams and players and coaches answer the question, how do they do it? Not can they do it or why they do it. Why is more personality? Can is more of a front office decision. We're just saying, all right, we know this guy is good. How does he do it? And so going underneath that umbrella of cognitive

ability, we look at things like visual spatial processing, the ability to scan the field and look for important details. We look at things like reaction time and also the ways to inhibit a response. So for example, a baseball coach once gave me this. He said, the secret to hitting isn't swinging at a 95 mile per hour fastball. The secret to hitting is not swinging at an 85 mile per hour curve. So inhibiting a reaction is pretty valuable too. So we measure stuff like that. Decision-making is about making quick and accurate decisions. And then the learning efficiency, one which you've kind of dialed into is the ability to download and recall information later okay so when i'm sitting at a bar when they back open and there's that game the touch screen game where it's like find the little things hidden in the picture that's getting the whole

field you know what i mean it's seeing the little details there you know what i mean is that like an umbrella is back there in the side you know what i mean okay i can't wait to take the goldman one time you will and and just just what a great capture. That's what a lot of the tests look like. Like a lot of the items and stuff. It's a lot more of playing games like Tetris, not to date myself, and the one that you talked about at the bar. And what we have found is the players really evaluate and appreciate that.

They're like, oh, thank God this isn't Aspen, Night Dogs, or Cat. And the other part that I think is worth noting is when my partner, Jim and I, when we created it, we were real mindful to make sure that it was robust to socioeconomic status, race, religion, country of origin. Like we eliminated a lot of those biases. Like for example, the top 10 scores in this year's draft are all minorities or no, sorry, let me be more clear. Eight example the top 10 scores in this year's draft are all minorities or no sorry let me be more clear eight of the top 10 scores are minorities this year and that's been consistent fits with our entire database like it's just one of those things where so i grew up in albuquerque new mexico and on some forms of intelligence tests they'll ask a question like what is a schooner

well i don't know i I'm from New Mexico. It's a desert. Schooners are both. So we eliminated stuff like that. It looks a lot more like you were talking about the bar games where it's looking for information in a crowded field, or it might be navigating something through space with obstacles in it and stuff like that. Hey, Doc, I might be wrong here.

And I love that what i was imagining your test being was your actual test because when i've taken tests like this in the past i've thought to myself oh this is a more boring version of this game basically this is a more boring version of this because whenever it's those types of things you get to compete so there's like an actual you know especially if you're talking about competitors there's like okay here we go this game is not going to beat me. So now we got like that whole thought of this whole thing. Quick question, though.

Do you see a correlation? And this has just been my personal thing. As somebody who has had to have some pressure-packed moments, I've succeeded in some, failed in others. I believe that a person can only handle the amount of like pressure moments that they're given. For instance, a kid who's potentially at a house party. All right. And there's one cup left in beer pong. All right. He's got the thing in the entire house is staring in the middle of a party at this dude. Okay. I feel or lady, whoever, by the way, I i've been i've been wiped off the table by some assassin ladies on the goddamn beer pong thing but i feel like the the ability to handle the pressure in

that moment i don't know how much bigger it could potentially get for you like i understand the results are potentially magnified if it is in a beer pong game verse like a super bowl or something like that but is there a way to find out, aside from like the quick reaction, how somebody will handle a big moment or how somebody will handle their life potentially being on the line for decisions? Is there a way to figure that out other than a potential beer pong game with a lot of people in the house? I like the fact that we're talking about a range of performance from beer pong to Super Bowl. I feel like maybe those gaps aren't as big as we all think, right? So here's how I go back to that. And something that I just believe to be true as a sports psychologist, I think human behavior is incredibly complicated. I think human interaction,

relationships is even more complicated, and performance is based off of all of that. So going back to that four buckets that we described earlier. So, and let's just use your specific example of beer pong. You've got the physical ability, right? Like, do I have the muscles and the strength to hurl a ping pong across the table into the cup? That's the physical abilities. Do I have the visual acuity? Like, do I need corrective lenses? Does my eyes have the ability to see the cup clearly? How hampered are my physical coordinations from whatever round of pong this is? So that's the first bucket. The second bucket is experience, right? How long have you been playing beer pong for? And how many games in your life have you done

that are even similar to beer pong then you've got the third bucket the aiq bucket right intelligence which is you know how well can i calculate the time distance and um other factors that are involved in shooting your shot bass bass music, okay, outside. There's probably some potential feelings. That's what you're referring to. Maybe there's also some other element of distraction, like a person of interest in the corner of your eye.

Maybe a camera crazy's too. I mean, all that stuff. Yeah, the curtain of death. I mean, I don't know how competitive the ping pong, beer pong game is. But then you've got the final bucket, that personality bucket, where you're talking about the pressure of the moment. Now, the AIQ does not test personality. And there's a purposeful reason for that.

Personality is really hard to test. And if you think you can capture that, I think that's misleading. And I'll tell you why. If we could identify personality, we could get rid of terrorisms, we could get rid of murders, like think about way more impactful things if we could figure, I mean, that's like almost like minority report stuff. So here's what we know about personality. It's not a genetically stable trait like intelligence it fluctuates who you are when you're 18 is different than who you are when you're 25. similarly personality can be influenced by life-changing events like having your child be

born or becoming a millionaire from being selected in the first three rounds of the draft so from being selected in the first three rounds of the draft. So situations. And then the other part about personality tests in general is they're based off really a self-report. How much am I willing to be honest with you about how I describe my own sense of psyche? And then there's this other element, which is even if I think I'm being honest with you, I might not be truthful. I might think of myself as a very courageous person. But if there's a fire in the building, I might be knocking old ladies out of the way and pushing kids down the stairs like George Costanza style. Right. Because you want to be accepted by the person that you're talking to. Yeah. So so when it comes to the personality bucket for the last seven years, I've been working with professional teams to do those interviews.

But what I always talk to the teams about is this is just a people-sized snapshot of the individual. This is not a pervasive personality pattern. This is not anything else. And really, I focus more on the goodness of fit. It's really about trying to understand, would this person be like our kind of guy? Would we really like having around? What do we like? So it's not even about trying to figure out if this guy was a bedwetter when he was seven years old or anything.

It's really more about what can we do to help him give us his best self? Yeah. And then do we like that? Like, is that a good fit for what we're looking for here? Doc, I appreciate what you've said here, by the way, this is shit that I am very, very interested in. So I thank you for all this. And I have to go back here. You saw a little reaction. I assume as a psychologist, you saw the reaction as soon as you said something. What you said there, basically, is situations are situational? Yes.

Yes. There it is. Zero PhDs. How about that? I just want to let everybody know. That's been my go-to for everything, Doc. Doc doesn't realize how much damage he just did. No, no, no.

There's no damage. I just, I want to let you know, two PhDs told me fucking amen, brother. I just heard it from him. I appreciate you, Doc. You've done a lot here today thus far. I'm not saying that that's going to be the one that carries on the longest, I think, in my life. But the information has been amazing. You should do more of this.

You're very good at this. Connor, what do you have? Yeah, Doc, you just mentioned uh like a personality change based on a significant event like becoming a millionaire getting drafted in the first three rounds is that why you think people might uh become busts like for instance there was a guy from the titans who was drafted in the first round who played offensive line and he didn't really play at all and actually got released is that because you think think he might have changed due to the money that he made so quickly?

Yeah, so again, my honest answer there is I don't know. Because I don't know the guy. Because? Say it. Because situationals are situational? No! We got another question, Doc. You'll get a chance to run it back.

If I can, let me go back to answer that question. What I would say is I don't know because I don't know him. And if I did know him, I wouldn't comment on it. But what I would say is sometimes life-changing moments can exacerbate who we are. Sometimes they can change who we are sometimes they can even solve problems like again becoming a millionaire doesn't make your life more chaotic or less chaotic it just changes it changes the way you make decisions in your life so i again it goes back to complexities and if human behavior was this simple um i think we could go and

do the stock market like the stock market would be a lot easier to figure out if we understood well the stock market's very easy all you gotta do is gotta hold doc until you guys sell what's that hey doc you're just a fucking wealth of information in there huh i don't know about that i just try to be a service to the people that i'm having a conversation see you've said some things like that here today where early in the conversation i was like okay this guy but i honestly genuinely believe that you believe that you feel it feels like you've committed your life here to like trying to at least figure out how the brain operates

and how we can kind of predict greatness in a sense that is different than personality. Has it always been this way? What made you so intrigued to go into sports psychology and psychology in general? Yeah, no, great. I appreciate the personal question. That's awesome. I think by inherent nature, I'm I appreciate the personal question. That's awesome. I think by inherent nature, I'm just a very curious person. And I like to be, I like to think of myself as somewhat

of an explorer. So I think all human behavior is fascinating. Like the shirt that you're wearing right now, is it laundry day? Is it your lucky shirt? Is it purposeful from a marketing perspective? Like all behavior has meaning. It's my uniform, by the way, just as a quick answer. Come on, dog. This is a quick answer, but I do, I agree with you, by the way. Well, and so I like the idea of being like, I think Walt Whitman had this great quote where he said, like, be curious, not judgmental. So I just have this real natural curiosity for why people do what they do, especially at the elite space. Like, I think it's really hard to win one football game,

much less a series of them to get to a Super Bowl. And so I've been very fortunate to have been along for the ride with some really unbelievable individuals. And it's just been really um it's been an absolute honor to watch them perform and to help them kind of solve these sort of puzzles it's really cool stuff so i guess i'm just lucky to have found a job that i really enjoy you have a super bowl ring i do not oh hey i think that's what we're gonna work in the next contract ty what we've got to work in the next contract. Ty, what do you got? Doc, based on the data, have you found clear-cut signs that, like, certain position groups score better on the test? Because I think in the research it said that, like, a couple pitchers scored very high on it.

Is it typically, like, quarterbacks, point guards, or, like, have you – I mean, is there a discrepancy there? Yeah, good question. Yes, there are patterns there. You know, it also becomes kind of an interesting chicken and the egg kind of question, right? Because the task demand of a tight end is a lot more complicated than the task demand of a wide receiver. So one of the questions to really ask is, are people with higher cognitive abilities being drawn towards the challenging positions or the challenging positions weeding out people with lesser cognitive abilities? But yes, we do see some patterns where some position groups score higher. Chicken egg, by the way way that was evolution i think

so yeah i think so too i think it was another bird that did give the eggs and then those eggs created the chicken so i don't think it is chicken or the egg i think it's a whole nother fucking existence so that's uh you know what i mean but it is a great metaphor i've thought about that one pretty in-depthly that one's out of my area of expertise i'll punt to the group on that one oh i heard you say punter that's actually right here that's right here on the shirt that you were just talking about there's a punt right there a little bit of a sag not as flexible as i once was but that ball is bombed oh yeah connor what do you have yeah doc uh if you had to like estimate what the top tier guys would get like what would Michael Jordan get what would Tom Brady get?

What would a guy like John Jones get who's in a UFC fight? It's just him like what would those type of scores would you estimate and what are the scores out of because we heard yesterday? Potential scores not from you. You don't have to confirm it That would be very fucked up with you And I don't even know if that's hip or not because it's a brain but we get it But we are like over a hundred is a good score And then we we looked online and some people scored like a 138 or something like that. How are the scores created and how did you get the points and what is a good score?

Okay, so there's a lot to unpack there. Let me kind of fold back. First of all, let's start with punters. And I'm going to give you some love, Pat. Thank you. Like, I think one thing that's really unique about punters is you have to fully extend in a very vulnerable position without flinching. I think there is something really incredible about the skill set and the psychological makeup of a punter

because I don't think people realize how hard that is. Like, most people just think, oh, this is just an automated rep activity, which going back to like your beer pong example, you can do a lot of things with 10,000 hours of mastery, but it's hard to do those things where you put yourself in an at-risk injury type scenario without flinching. Gymnasts, same thing. Like our brains are not wired to be upside down and when you see a gymnast do those kinds of things on a regular basis like that's incredible so i'm just going to give you some love by the way i never thought of that i want to let you know i never thought of that really like what you're bringing to me today really like what you're you know what

i mean basically i should squirrel suit yeah yeah i'm a squirrel suit guy i do believe but i appreciate what you're doing. Now, I apologize. The other question about the scores and everything like that. Yeah. So what's interesting about intelligence is there's kind of like no ceiling because you can kind of like outperform a test. You can actually, so for example, let's say there's 10 items and you get all 10 items correct. What that tells us is the test didn't capture your true ability because maybe you would have gotten 14 out of 14 right or 20 out of 20 right.

So there is a ceiling to a test, but there's not necessarily a ceiling to intelligence. Now, going back to the scores themselves, we did follow the same code that the Stanford Binet, Woodcock Johnson, the Wexler scales, like they all kind of follow a similar kind of scoring system, which is 100 is average. And then there's a standard deviation of 15 points in either direction. So if you score a 115 or higher, that's statistically significant. If you score a 130 or higher, that's like by definition giftedness or genius level kind of stuff. Similarly, on the other side of it, 85 or lower is statistically significantly weak, and 70 is statistically significantly really weak. Okay. Billy Tubbs. Doc, with so many people from so many different walks of life taking this test,

is it the same test every single time, or do NFL players take a different test than any of the other sports or athletes? Another really good question. At a baby, Bill! Let's not do this, by the way. That's maybe the first question I've ever heard from Tubbs in this show. He was very excited. You had the boys buzzing this morning when you were coming on the show, by the way. That's maybe the first question I've ever heard from Toops in this show. He was very excited. You had the boys buzzing this morning when you were coming on the show, by the way.

I appreciate that. I would have him ask more questions because that was a good one. So green light him. Listen, you can't tell that guy to do anything. Oh, yeah, you don't know him, Doc. His personality is way different from the intelligence. Well, you can't judge a personality, which we did learn in this entire thing. You can only kind of see a thing.

But listen, Bill does whatever the hell he wants back there. There ain't nothing I can do. So to answer the question, the test is uniform. It's a one test thing. So it's not something where it changes per player, per person, per year, anything like that. It really is meant to be a standardized test and that's that's what we that's what we created doc have you taken the test or is that some kind of weird ethics thing you don't get half your own supply wow um i yeah i have taken the test myself

and uh but mostly to make sure that you, like testing it and the development of it and the creating of it is. But it wasn't about just seeing what my own performance would be on it. And just for, again, going back to the, this is not meant, the test is not meant to be the answer. It's just meant to contribute so that teams make a more well-informed decision. So, like, for example, I would never draft me to play defensive back in the NFL, even if I scored really high on this thing. Like, those other three buckets are significantly missing. Hey, Doc, no shit, Doc. Did you do well on that or no?

Did you do well on it? I assume you did. Yeah, I did fine. I mean, you know, I was okay. 130 plus? 70 below? 130 plus? Like I said, we don't really publicly talk about it.

Oh, that was awesome. Doc, thank you so much, man. I feel like I've learned so much. I hope this information starts becoming a little bit more readily available because I think the narrative changed vastly yesterday about Justin Fields by a lot of people. Whenever we found out he scored 130 plus, allegedly, we don't know, obviously don't want you to do that, but we appreciate you so much for what you're doing for sports, man. I really enjoyed the time and the conversation. Y'all have asked some great questions. And if there's any, an opportunity that you'd like me to further the conversation

on this subject matter or anything else, I'd be comfortable doing it again. You got it. Ladies and gentlemen, Dr. Scott Gould. Can't thank you enough for choosing to listen to the show. The fact that you do, we are internally grateful for. Ty, we've got a big show tomorrow. Yeah, huge show tomorrow. Please be a friend. Tell a friend.

We can't thank you enough. We're back manana. Ty, please play some independent music and propel these people into a beautiful Wednesday night. Cheers. សូវាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបាូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីបនប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប�ាប់បានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបានបា Thank you. សូវាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប� Outro Music