The Pat McAfee Show - PMS 2.0 577 - Barry Sanders, NFL Films Senior Coordinating Producer Keith Cossrow, & AJ Hawk

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

On today's show, Pat, AJ, and the boys chat about this weekend's Same Game Parlay Holiday exclusively on FanDuel for Wildcard Weekend, and all the different NFL news stories going around as we prepare for the playoffs and teams continue to figure out what they're going to do in their coaching searches. Joining the program is a Hall of Famer, and NFL MVP, a Heisman Trophy Winner, 10x Pro Bowler, 10x All-Pro, one of the greatest football players ever, Barry Sanders to chat about how the game has changed a little bit, who he likes in the playoffs, if Derrick Henry coming back is going to propel the Titans in the playoffs, if his game would've translated to today, and the Super Bowl Squares Sweepstakes presented by Rocket Mortgage (44:52-1:06:24). Later, Senior Coordinating Producer with NFL Films, Keith Cossrow joins Pat and AJ to chat about the 33rd owner in the league, NFL Films, his experiences putting together this season's in-season Hard Knocks, what the experience was like as a whole, if they're going to continue doing in-season Hard Knocks, how it landed on HBO, and much more (1:10:35-1:37:35). Make sure you subscribe to youtube.com/thepatmcafeeshow and listen every day on Mad Dog Radio, Sirius XM Channel 82. We appreciate you all for listening, come and laugh with us, cheers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, it is Wednesday, January 12th, 2022. Big show today, Barry Sanders is here. What a legend, great conversation. He is always so incredibly cool with us and we can't thank him enough. Keith Cosrow. Yeah, he's the guy who's responsible for putting hard knocks on the air.

He's worked at NFL Films for 25 years. Great conversation about following the Indianapolis Colts this season. Behind the scenes of NFL Films and the NFL as a whole. AJ Hawk's here. The boys are here. Let's go. Let's have a Wednesday. If you enjoy the show by the end of it, please be a friend and tell a friend.

If not, just act like it never happened. Let's go. Today is a day that will be remembered because today is the day that we debut something that we created in this here office that's right and we think it's going to go on to have great success oh yes because i started rolling it out to a couple people and there was only one thing they say how do we play in the same game, parlay holiday. And they say, show us the way to the same game, parlay holiday. It's for the wild card games in the same game Game Parlay Holiday. That's this weekend.

Hell yeah. Okay. So this is how it's going to work. You spend or bet $50 in same-game parlays. There's tiers. You spend $50 in same-game parlays this weekend. We will have four of them promoted this weekend, one from the Pat McAfee Show, one from the pod,

one from Hammered Down, and one from That's Hockey Talk. And you can create your own. If you spend $50 and bet $50 in same-game parlays, you'll get $20 back no matter if you win or lose. Okay. You spend $100 on same game parlays, you put $25 on each of our same game parlays that we'll be promoting, you'll get $50 back whether you win or you lose. And when you spend $200 on same game parlays, you'll get $100 back win or lose.

Those are the three tiers. If you go any higher, you will not get more than $100 back. But with these same-game parlays, we'll be able to bet, get some money back, and probably hit for millions and millions against FanDuel. against Vandal and that's how you play in the same game parlay holiday we just showed you the way of the

same game parlay holiday let's dominate the wild card games with the same game parlay. Holiday. Should be a pretty cool weekend. Yeah, looking forward to it. Not sure it will be. Yeah! He told me, maybe check out the weather report for that one. Oh, okay. Well, hey, listen. We will have different same-game parlays that will all be posted on FanDuel.

You can create your own, do your own. The same-game parlay is a feature on the FanDuel Sportsbook that is glorious. Yeah, top tier. I mean, it is awesome. It was a game-changer, an innovator. Everybody else was trying to catch up, but the tech really can't because FanDuel kind of created it. So if you created it, I mean, you're probably going to know the ins and outs a little bit

better. This weekend, same game, parlay holiday. We'll have four going on. Okay, we'll have four promoted. Can't wait to see what you stooges at the pod. We got a tasty one. And then they got a big goon crew over there at the hockey talk. They got Rubber and Nick putting their own together.

The Hammered Down one should be one that we all keep our eyes on because Hammered Down is a gambling show that's been on a heater for literally 12 months at this point. But don't sleep on me, AJ, and Foxy. No, let's go. Don't sleep on me, AJ, and Foxy putting ours together. And you can build your own. Once again, remember, you spend $50 on these same game parlays, you're going to get $20 back. You get to $100 in bets on same game parlays, you'll get $20 back. You get to $100 in bets on same-game parlays, you'll get $50 back.

You go up to $200, which, hey, only if you can afford to do so, you'll get $100 back on your same-game parlay bets. It's a same-game parlay holiday, and I want to let you know, I hope you all win. I hope you win. I hope you win, too. Now, you guys are the first game. Oh, I know.

You guys set the time for this. Table setter. Table setter. Don't worry. For the same-game parlay holiday, it's right here set by you guys. We'll start us off hot. We already got a pretty good feel on where we're leaning to. So, you know, we feel pretty confident, Pat.

Hey, these are the things, by the way, that, you know, not being owned by Fandle is good. Because they have a concept and an idea. We say, well, how about giving money back? Like, hey, you want people to do stuff. If they know that something's potentially coming back, let's go do it. They're like, all right, we can do this. We can do this. We can do this.

We're like, so it's 50%. You're going to give 50% of the money back? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not exactly. Okay, they're betting 50. We'll give 20. They bet 100. We'll give 50.

Bet 200. We'll give 100. I'm like, why can't you just give everybody 25 bucks? We're like, well, we'll get fucking broken in half. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Bankrupt. I'm like, all right. Okay. everybody 25 bucks we're like well we'll get fucking broken in half yeah yeah yeah bankrupt I'm like alright alright so what's going to go on they're like well 20 is 20 good 20 is good

can we call it a holiday sure is this going to happen again we don't know well if we make it a holiday we can drop it in whenever we want this holiday can happen whenever this is just like the spread the love thing that was created you know the spread the love thing was like I think we should have team betting you know I think we should have team betting don't you think like the more people that bet in the bigger the spread gets love thing that was created there. The spread the love thing was like, I think we should have team betting. I think we should have team betting.

Don't you think? The more people that bet in, the bigger the spread gets in. That should be good. So what happens if it gets up to plus 120 or something like that? Yeah, yeah. We win. The team wins. Hey, morale is good.

That's the purpose of it. We were beating you. They're like, okay, let's give it a go. We did it once. Got up to plus 80-something. And then it got to plus 120-something. Now it's rolling. We're hoping the same game

parlay holiday is another thing that we can pretend. Same game parlay holiday. What game are you doing? Me?

Bucks-Eagles. Okay. What's your fucking problem? And this guy, I don't know. What is this guy's deal? What is this all about? Hey, Foxy, he's coming after me, you, and AJ.

What's that about, Tony? Yeah, what's that all about, Tom? Do you want the information or do you not? Okay. 75% chance of rain, 20 to 30 mile an hour winds, near a quarter to half inch of rain, gusts much higher. Okay, interesting you say that. Jalen went to Alabama and Oklahoma.

Tom Brady was born in the dark. That's right. Okay, up there in New England and Foxborough. With that being said, I don't know about the rest of the team. That's slippery weather. Basically a hurricane. Well, and Jalen, they I like to run the football. So we might have to take our team. I just want

everyone to win, so I wanted to give you that information. Yeah, because, you know, FanDuel has tried to prod a little bit and be like, oh, it feels like the hockey talks are probably going to hit and everybody else is. And we're like, hey, we don't need you driving a wedge. That would be awesome. No, it wouldn't. No, it wouldn't.

We all want to win. We all need to win. You know what would be awesome is you win. We all win. Don't let them do this to you. If only one had to win, it would be sweet if the Hammer Time Boys won. See, this is what I'm talking about. You two, how's your families?

How about all of our families? Us. You guys are turning on me now that you know that I'm Italian as well? This is unbelievable, you two. How dare you? Don't let FanDuel take us into a spot that we never wanted to go. Everybody wants to win. We all want to win.

All the Italian you had, you spit into that cup. Whoa. Turns out it's all you need. That's all you need for the rest of your life. Put a pinky ring on, you're good to go. But this weekend should be a blast. There's a lot of NFL stuff to chat about. Let's dive into it. I think we nailed the jingle.

I think so too. Sounded good. Yeah. If there was a shot of me in my bathroom this morning, I'd get ready to instrumentals playing, either rap instrumentals or some EDM stuff, some techno music, folk. There's some folk instrumentals too, depending upon what mood I'm in.

This morning, I couldn't figure out how to get Same Game Parlay Holiday. There was a lot of words obviously and then this one particular beat came on i was like in the shower i mean i was like screaming in my bathroom wife My wife comes in like, is there a concert? I'm like, you just heard the creation. We got a jingle. I'm pumped for it.

We got a hit though so we can continue to promote. Don't worry, we'll start us off hot. I hope you guys do. Thank you. Appreciate it. From me to you guys, I hope you guys do. I don't know what these scumbag Italians are thinking. I forgot about them.

Yeah, you mostly. You, assholes I forgot about them. Yeah, you mostly. You, asshole. Forget about them. Yeah. Forget about them is right. Well, that's not what we're talking about. What I'm talking about is I appreciate you wanting me to win. What I'm talking about is you doubling down, retweeting what Nick said.

Well, if only one's going to win, it'd be cool if it was me. No, we don't. We want all of them. We all want to win. Yeah, yeah. We want all of them to win, but if only one wins, then it should be. Tony. The gambling show?

That'd be a shame if we won three, huh? Oh, no. No, no. That would be a shame. Oh, no. Because right now everybody knows I'm ice cold. Roll motherfucking tide. Cold.

Foxy's very hot, though. No, no, no. I'm all about basketball. In football, I'm ice cold as well. So that is the thing. I don't think it's, this is not for all, they have not opened this up to all sports. Just for wildcard weekend.

This is like a rollout for wildcard games. This is for super wildcard. By the way, very proud of this. Very excited for this. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, the risk-free same game parlay, I was very excited about too. Like, okay, people were able to do something.

This is a win for you guys. Okay, we're introducing same game parlay, but also everybody's getting their money back. And then once we failed for 11 straight weeks. We can't do this anymore. We can't do this anymore. Gone. you guys okay we're introducing same game parlay but also everybody's getting their money back so and then once we failed for 11 straight weeks and then we can't do this we can't do this i thought we were doing this all season fan i ain't doing it okay i can't get out here every single friday and be like god damn it tom brady and then we go to the it was the one we went to the colts jets game yes and pitman got tackled. Shoestring tackle. Six yards short. And the Colts had just won

a Thursday night football game on primetime. First Thursday night game in Indianapolis in a long time. Just beat the dog shit out of the Jets. That was back when we were thinking they were going to win the Super Bowl.

Jonathan Taylor scores two touchdowns. I mean, he does his entire thing. And all the way out from the Robert Mathis' suite, which was very, very nice, all the way to the car. Colts fans were not happy for us. They were not smiling. They literally, about 100 people on our way out, head down, walking.

Sorry about the parlay, man. Six more yards. Nobody was happy. We were miserable every Thursday night. That was the saddest 40-point win of all time. It's crazy. We were supposed to be happy from this thing. This risk-free same-game parlay was supposed to be joyful.

Thursday night football kicking off the weekend, and what it quickly became was a nightmare. I'd wake up Friday morning just miserable. It's like, oh, feel-good Friday. Is it? Why did Tom Brady take two fucking knees backwards, and then he took one forward? How come that guy

couldn't have done that all three of them we'd all be dancing we had 44 000 people riding on that one if that one hits we're probably still doing we're in the game we're still doing that thing forever but we didn't even get one good shot like golf we had zero we had rims out every single never fell never went around and fell. This same game parlay holiday, we have to hit so we continue to do it. And we will. Very confident. We will.

I mean, Jamar Chase with the Jags. Not to bring up the Jags, but that same game parlay, Jamar Chase. He got a touchdown in every other fucking game. Exactly. I'm not doing it. You saw Pittman's path to the end zone. He's wide open. He's right there. Jets, dude.

He had Jets against the Jets with a runway in front of him, literally right in front of me. And it's like, this motherfucker. And then we had to wait around all the way until the end of that game because Carson was still going out because the Jets had success. They were still sending Carson out, still sending Pittman out. It's like, hold on.

Hold on. We can still get it here. All we need is one catch. Then he overthrows Pittman. Maybe that should have been the timing. That should have been when you knew. That was probably it. You should have knew it was Wentz's fault.

Yep. Wow. Wow. Things aren't good for the Wentzes right now. Do you see that sweet stat about the Colts today? What's that? That they led for more time throughout the season Things aren't good for the Wentzes right now. Did you see that sweet stat about the Colts today? What's that? That they led for more time throughout the season than the Titans and Packers did.

And they're the one seats in the conference. Yeah, I saw that. It's pretty cool. Shut the fuck up. It is. It's a lot of minutes. We're not talking about the Colts anymore. We're moving on.

Well, we've got to talk to Keith Costro. Yeah, we're talking to Keith Costro. It's only about the Colts. We Keith Costro. Only about the Colts. We're going to be talking about the Colts a little bit more. Connor, you did not deserve that. Venom would just be. Well, I don't know. I brought up the Jags. I mean, I kind of did.

Yeah, you've been kind of dancing on this whole thing. Yeah. And I saw PFT, okay, pardon my take, say, listen, we're not doing a whole debate on whether or not Georgia could beat the worst team in the NFL. And then he follows up, the Colts would beat Georgia by 20 or whatever. So we got Clowntown dunking on us. We missed the playoffs. PFD, one of the world's best brains dunking on us.

And once the Colts become that in his brain, I can't wait to see what he comes up with. This is not a good time to be a Colts fan, okay? So I don't need the enemy within the – Hembo of ESPN. Good stats. Good stats lately. Great, great stats. This dude...

Hey, the stats community looked... And for Aaron. So it seems to be quite a give-and-take relationship I have with him. The stats community looks up to Brandon Staley as if they are the stats god. I think they all realize... Hembo's at the end of your prayers. Yeah, that's... Yeah, stat that.

Hembo is stat that. Yeah, stat that. Hembo is stat that. Yeah, he is stat that. Strange but true. The Colts who missed the playoffs played more minutes with a lead this season, 562 minutes. Then the Packers, 521, or the Titans, 490, the number one seeds. That's crazy, Hembo. We don't need your fucking punditry.

Okay, Hembo? Yeah. That is crazy, though. That is crazy. That is crazy. When they played the Titans and went to overtime, the Titans, I believe, didn't have a lead until the field goal. Yeah, let's go.

All right, let's go to – that is tough. And we had MVP candidate, Defense Player of the Year candidate, Coach of the Year candidate. What? Hottest team in football. What? Imagine what that stat would have been if they didn't trail the entire game against the Jaguars.

So many more minutes. We didn't even come out and think about taking a lead. No. First drop. We were down 20. We were down 20 to climb time. Yeah. And it only got worse.

And they – I mean, Jacksonville might win the Super Bowl next year. Might. We don't know. Yeah, you're right. With that team, with that D-line, we don't know. We don't know. They don't have a coach or a GM. Well, Trevor's gone urban out of his blood, so he's now well trevor might be a guy by the way i mean there was

some plays where he was making like who the fuck is this dude has he been playing football all year they're not been playing him what's been going on i see him in a subway commercial i've not seen any of this all year he's just saving it for week 18 way to go trevor take it into the off season where was this 10 weeks ago in that entire team? Probably what Urban was thinking while he was dancing on that team. That's right. We got the skill, shit. Right there. We're living on the edge.

All right, let's go to some more stats. Stat that. Stat that. Actual ones. The NFL is dunking on everybody. And when we say that, we mean that. Ari Mirov, Pro Football Focus, at MySportsUpdate. Per the NFL, so this is coming directly from the NFL,

and numbers don't mean shit in the modern world that we're in i actually just uh did an interview with bloomberg whoa so i did not know that bloomberg was anything other than a human there was a human named bloomberg i guess there's an entire network business thing oh yeah so somebody at bloomberg had been reaching out to the Colts and WWE and some other people to get some quotes about me. And the people from the Colts and the WWE, who I know very tightly, they reached out to me like,

hey, you know Bloomberg's snooping around on you right now? I'm like, what is this dude? Yeah, what is this dude? Has this dude got a problem? What is the thing? No, Bloomberg is a magazine website network basically i did not know that so i did learn something shout out to bloomberg i've done some research they they do very well oh yeah bloomberg's doing just fine so i actually

i looked into it i'm like what are these people snooping around for? And who knows? I mean, we'll see what it is. But I talked to the person writing the article. Name was Jerry with a G. Okay, nice. So I talked to him today. He had sent some requests, I think, in earlier to talk to me because when the Colts and the WWE and some other people, have you heard about this Bloomberg article?

I'm like, no, I do not know anything about it as we're talking about it. So both sides were like, well, that's kind of fucked up that they're actually doing this without you even knowing about it or whatever. Apparently this guy did send like four or five emails, but I saw Bloomberg and I was like, I don't want to talk to this dude. I don't know this dude. I had no idea who it was. So I finally got a chance to chat with this guy.

Good guy. Super smart. Bloomberg, by the way, massive network. Big. I guess this is a big deal. Oh yeah. Very big. I talked to him for like an hour and it's a big deal. Oh, yeah. Very big. I talked to him for like an hour and 15 minutes earlier,

and we got to one particular portion of it. And I found it very comical because business revolves around numbers a lot. And I said, I don't know how to say this, but everybody's full of fucking shit with their numbers. Everybody. We live in the Internet business where I have seen some companies report their numbers for who's seeing, watching, and everything like that. And it's like, well, that's, that's a quarter of planet earth. So whenever you just start throwing these numbers out here in an attempt to garner new ad deals or

a new number or an evaluation or whatever, like if somebody who has any idea what they're doing would look at them and be like, that's impossible. The numbers that you're putting out there, or how are you doing 7 billion people every single month? That is some of the numbers that are being reported by some companies. And it's not, I guess you can't blame them because once you see another company do it, you got to do it as well. There's little ways you can game your numbers with your, your content and how you release it, when you release content and how you release it when you release it how you release it how many pieces of content do you release that are the same thing i mean there is just ways to game numbers so numbers are all bullshit and um you know jerry followed up with

like well how how do you i was like i think influence i on and that sounds like such a a bullshit answer but i think you know somebody's real or something is real or not with the influence they have on everyday conversation. And I didn't even know Bloomberg had a fucking thing, so when I say I live in a silo, I live in a silo. But on the internet, I think it's very clear to see, like, hey, who's doing shit? Who isn't? Now, real world, I know they got Nielsen. How the fuck does that keep track of DVR streaming clips, anything like that? I guess it does and the people that are in positions of power that are either making the advertising

deals or they're proclaiming their numbers they love that the Nielsen's real I guess but you have to think you take a step back and go this is all bullshit you have to because I look at my Twitter thing I'll look at my Twitter I'll look them up right now with this thing. It'll be up over a billion impressions or something in the last 28 days. It's like, what the fuck does that mean? Is an impression mean it was on my screen or on somebody's screen at some time?

And does that matter? No, you were just happened to be on a screen for half a scroll. So I think the numbers department in the world in which we live is going to continue to evolve to get more accurate because advertisers are probably getting fucked and not getting the ROI that they think they're getting at all. But whenever the NFL comes out and says, hey,

this is what we're doing, I believe it because the only thing anybody talks about whenever the NFL is on is the NFL. And that's just the way it goes. So what I'm saying is, it is hard to believe all of these numbers ever. But when the NFL is putting out this particular number, I feel like it's probably much more accurate than some people that you've never heard of that are also projecting numbers that are absurd. For instance, the NFL. The 2021 NFL regular season averaged 17.1 million viewers.

That's TV and digital. Okay, what does that mean? Nobody knows what that means, but that is a lot of motherfucking people and i think the influence the nfl has is vast and huge it's a it garners every conversation so we can say yeah that feels right the highest regular season average since 2015 nfl games accounted for 91 out of the top 100 most watched telecasts on television throughout the season there was 370 billion total minutes consumed that's another stat that is awesome that is like how do they know that how how do they know oh i'm sure some really smart person's

going to come tell me how they know that and it might be even from a company that has a building downtown here that runs all the stat that's in the back end that we know people that work at but honestly if they would have said they were doing 20 million viewers a game out there that sounds right oh yeah 15 yeah that sounds right but the fact that they're 91 out of the top 100 telecasts on television in the year 2021 they're all living by the same numbers so they all might be bullshit or they all might be 100% accurate but 91 out of 100 is an absolute yeah hey you TV exactly yeah big time from the NFL that is why the 110 billion dollar deal they just signed is only the tip of the iceberg because as more streaming platforms are going to

get into the NFL and into the ratings game, those numbers are banana land. And the money that is on these platforms, also banana land. So this is, I'm lucky and thankful I was a part of the NFL, that we cover the NFL. And this is absurd to think about. Every other league is looking at this tweet going, what the fuck are we going to do to try to keep up? Well, we kind of talked about it earlier. Like cable exists basically because of sports and for a large amount of people that's by way

of the nfl like i'll never get cape any other like tv show or anything like that most people are watching that on some sort of streaming service like if you have cable you have cable so that you can watch the nfl on sundays or you know basketball throughout the week or whatever like there really isn't anything anymore that people are saying like, oh, I need to get cable because of that. They're just going to the streaming services and cable exists because of sports and largely because of the NFL. Who's going to come in and just make a big play?

Obviously, Amazon has already done it. Yeah. And I got a chance. What was that? IBM, Foxy? Who was it? IBM? Yeah, that sounds right. Was that who it was? I was in a IBM, Foxy? Who was it, IBM? Yeah, that sounds right.

Was that who it was? I was in a horse. In Cincinnati? Yeah. IBM, yeah. I was in a horse shed or horse trailer outside of the Cincinnati Bengals stadium for a Thursday night football game against the Houston Texans. Yeah.

It was in Cincinnati. The only reason why I remember it was the Texans is because the only thing I did the entire game was sit in a trailer that was the size of, it might've been a donkey trailer, not even a horse trailer. It was this tiny little thing with all these cameras. It was for virtual reality. So they were trying out and sampling virtual reality and IBM wanted to pitch that they could be the NFL's virtual reality option. I think, I'm not 100% sure, but I think that was the case. I'm a rather observant human being, even though people don't expect that.

I try to at least see why are we here and how are we here. So the only reason why I remember it was against the Texans, because as I was walking onto the field at the end, Leckler was jogging off and JJ was jogging off. And they're like, what are you doing? Are you on TV right now? I'm like, no, no, no. I was just in the trailer.

I was just in the trailer for the entire game. So there's nothing for us to do until afterwards where we gave a two-minute recap of the shots that were seen throughout the game to pitch to the NFL, basically. I thought we were calling the game. I thought it was going to be much different. That's why I signed up for it. I was the color commentator in this thing, so I didn't even host the recap. So I literally spoke for 27 seconds. Foxy was drunk as fuck at the game with his friends i didn't remember that yeah foxy wasn't able to come into the trailer or the area because it was so small so foxy was like i got some friends

are going again do you care if i just go to the game i'm like do what you gotta do dude i i'm in a miserable spot yeah so we see fox i see foxy like four hours later he is hammer drunk passes out in the truck on the way I'm driving Foxy back from Cincinnati to Indianapolis complete waste of time the the technology was amazing but the only cool thing I got out of that is I got a chance to sit with the guy from NFL Films who was the original producer for Steve Sable so this guy is the part of the 33rd ownership of the NFL, which is NFL Films. And he and I, because the food that was there was terrible. We actually went to the tailgate across the street, got some beers, got some food, had a full conversation. Dude, this

guy is a dude. He is one of the biggest brains in the NFL. I assume we have to thank him for a lot of the things, but he was only there because the NFL films was trying to see whether or not IBM would be the right partner or not. And it's a, it's almost like a trial. Like can the NFL films in the NFL trust you with the product, with the game. And that's kind of how that whole thing is.

I don't know if IBM became the official virtual reality partner. I know there was zero chance they were ever getting me back into a fucking donker trailer ever again, especially to speak for 27 seconds. And, but I thought it was zero chance they were ever getting me back into a fucking donkey trailer ever again, especially to speak for 27 seconds. But I thought it was a cool technology. But learning that from the NFL films, he's like, yeah, we got to see whether or not this is something we want to continue. So like for Amazon, Amazon's been in with the NFL now for like three years. They had Thursday night option simulcast and they had their own show.

Now they kind of bought into it so it's one of those things where we'll be able to see who is testing the waters and who the nfl is allowing to kind of test the waters the nfl and nfl films take a lot of pride in how the game is presented how the game is broadcasted that's why they get so mad at some people that rip clips and put them out and do it in a different way i've been very thankful that they've kind of allowed me to do that for special teams because i think everybody in NFL films is like, if he wants to cover punts, I mean, do we fucking care? Nobody else does that. So I think they take a lot of pride, as they should,

because 91 of the top 100 telecasts are that. But I'm excited to see who gets it. What if Netflix? Why wouldn't Netflix get in? Apple? Apple. Why wouldn't Apple get involved? You would assume HBO is going to try to. I mean, they already kind of have the end with hard knocks so like that kind of makes sense

and they're kind of a staple with real sports has been around a long time so all these platforms getting in there and i think this um negotiation they had for the 110 billion dollars i think a lot of them are like potential with like outs and stuff yeah like if we find hey if we find another 10 billion somewhere right if we just so happen to and bezos comes in shirtless off his boat and says you know what here's 15 billion i want to do this like the nfl has the ability to go do that and when as these stats continue to come out all their other sponsors are like how do we get in how do we get in anything at all so what a wild time to be an nfl owner and the broncos look like that's about to be an open spot broncos who knows what's going on with an open spot. Yeah, Broncos, who knows

what's going on with the Chargers because you know the Spanos family is going through a lot of things. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. My reports, I'm just reading, but you wonder if places like ESPN who have to pay like the premium price for Monday night football, like how long they'll be

able to keep that up, especially if Bezos does come in and they're like, you know what, we'll double what ESPN's giving you, and you're just going to put Monday Night Football on Amazon. So is ESPN getting a larger package of NFL games? I think they're investing more in the NFL than they were in college. From the last rights that I remember hearing. Not 100% sure. Should have asked Paisani the other night.

Now they're in Jim and Paisani right on 50. That was awesome. Yeah. Thatakedale, we're in Jimmy Pothar's suite right on 50. That was awesome. Yeah. That was outrageous that we were in there and it doesn't feel like I owe anybody anything. It almost feels like

Jimmy was like, hey, sorry for all the miscommunication. All right, this is us meeting each other, having a conversation, come by the suite, hit me up,

we appreciate what you do. Even though everybody below me in the middle management position who has done everything the exact same way for decades and has made a lot of money off and has really zero thought of their own might not like you. I would like to let you know I appreciate you, which is very nice. Me, AJ, and Tony Diggs were not supposed to be in that suite that we were in.

But I think they're getting into the NFL more. In the NFL, in their negotiations, right, everything is valued exactly how somebody who's willing to pay values it. So everybody's overpaid, underpaid. No, you are exactly paid how you are supposed to be paid because that is all negotiation. That is all figured out. That is something I learned a long time ago, especially when I saw some of my teammates

either get in public eyes overpaid, but in the locker room, what you're not seeing behind closed doors, actually, I think he's getting underpaid. And then there's some people that get fucked. And I think to myself, like, well, you should have stood a little firmer. You should have stood a little firmer in your grounds to do whatever you are. So I think in the negotiations, the NFL actually told ESPN,

this is us just watching from the outside and reading the press clippings as it all happened. Like, without us, your entire network would be fucked. Yeah. So you're going to pay a little bit more like nbc their entire programming nbc sports doesn't revolve around nfl football exactly so they didn't have to pay as much as espn did who also uses all the clips throughout the entire week and then there's a set amount of clips that are allowed on social this video is allowed to air on social this one isn't so i think all those

negotiations the nfl has all of their lawyers sitting at a table go you know what actually I mean does get up exist without us first how about our league NFL that's that's what the NFL did the ESPN, and there's nothing ESPN can do about it. Disney can do about it. You just wonder what if Amazon comes in and says, hey, we want to kind of – we would like to take the place. Well, they're doing that for Thursday, right? Yeah, because they had it for a little bit, and then they got it outright.

And I think they got it for what, 10, 11 years? Yeah, I think it is 10 years. Is that public knowledge? Yeah, I just saw right here, 11 years? Yeah, I think it is 10 years. Is that public knowledge? I don't... Yeah, I just saw right here, 11 years. Okay, good. All right. We have chatted with Amazon.

I have chatted with Amazon. A billion per year. I have chatted with ESPN. You know, now that people saw the FanDuel deal, which isn't our only deal, that's just our exclusive sportsbook partner i think a lot of people who potentially had no idea what we did how we did or why we did it uh had to get kind of open like oh what the fuck is going on here because if this is what this company is saying

they're worth to them what are all the other companies saying to them and once again all numbers are bullshit so there's people in this space that are pitching numbers that are completely foo gays. And it's not our game or my game to come out and say, this is a lie, this is a lie, this is a lie. I hope everybody gets a billion dollars. But it's tough not to sometimes when I am the person literally representing this company in conversations and there's other numbers being presented as if it's real. And it's like that. That's not real. Impossible.

And I don't want to sound like a bad person. I want everybody to get their money like that that's not real impossible and i don't want to sound like a bad person i want everybody to get their money but that is not real that is a marketing agency that is a salesperson accumulating numbers to try to throw a fastball past you because you don't know anything about this current platform that we are in right now so that is something that's hard to do but the nfl knows that they are just going to go like this, and that's why that franchise in Denver. Oh, yeah. Interesting.

I saw Marshawn Lynch is in conversations with Amazon as well. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah, for sure. That would be awesome. You know, the Amazon thing is very interesting because they have Twitch, which is a daily streaming platform. That's right.

They have the NFL rights. So would that mean that if we're on Twitch, because I've seen other shows, do you get NFL rights on there? Feels like it. And then, obviously, we're getting a plane. So Thursday night football, throw an entire thing, is very doable. I mean, there's a lot of synergy between what we do and what Amazon does. But I ain't a fucking idiot.

You know what I mean? That's right. I know that as well. So there's a lot of... It's fascinating. Yeah. Me walking into these meetings. Hey, what do we got?

Oh, yeah, you don't have a fucking clue. Okay, cool. Hey, I'm not even going to waste any more time. And I think there's always a feel out. The Amazon folks seem to be a good group of people. I mean, Marshawn, that's a good start. Yeah, they're looking at it. And I think they got Aqib in there too.

Aqib Tlaib's in there as well. There's a lot of people that I have respect for that have been announced as a part of the Amazon roster. And I'm like, okay, making good decisions, making good decisions over there. I like that a lot. But once again, we just talked to Jimmy Patara the other night. I have a lot of respect for that guy all of a sudden. When I probably, to that entire network, a lot of friends over there, a lot of very talented people over there. I mean, we just put over Hembo a second ago.

That's behind the scenes. I mean, I love a lot of people over there. But a lot of the decisions that are being made over there, you go, okay, we'd probably do it different. And also, those people will never understand our type of operation. But as it grows, it feels like there's only going to be more platforms to have to chat with and see if it's a right fitter. Look at Amazon, too. I think we'll see after this football season ends, they're going to be very aggressive trying to acquire talent because money doesn't really exist to them. I mean, they can pay anybody whatever they want to.

Sunday tickets up. Sunday tickets up. There's a good chance they're going to get that as well. You know, just thinking out loud. And also out loud. Merch business they have. Yeah, exactly. Merch business.

Shipping service. Marketing. Amazon Music. But once again, this ain't a guarantee. No. There's a lot of places. No. There's other places that have all that stuff.

Not really, but there's other places that have. To a degree, I mean. All right, let's talk football. Apple's going to step up somehow, and they're going that have all that stuff. Not really, but there's other places that have. Yeah, but you're great, Amy. All right, let's talk football. Apple's going to step up somehow, and they're going to get in the game. Well, I think what Amazon's going to do is they're going to bring in Joe Judge. Oh, okay. So that's a good transition. That's a professional transition.

And then that's the type of stuff that people really don't understand whenever they do a daily show is a good transition. Boom. And this is one to get out of a conversation that we are, or conversations we are potentially on behind the scenes. Sure. Out of the actual show

because I don't want to give up any leverage or any thought to anybody live into the microphone. Makes sense. Sun Tzu. Art of War. Sun Tzu. There it is.

R.I.P. Sun Tzu. R.I.P. Sun Tzu. R.I.P. Sun Tzu. He had a hell of an impact, though, in that life he lived. Yes, he did. 2,000 years ago. Anyways, Joe Judge, dead

as a New York Giant. It's unfortunate. It is over. Dan Dugan, at DDugan21. Dugas. What up, Dugas? So you think about Dugas, he dug to the bottom of this thing. At one point he was digging, then he was dugging, now he's all the way done

and he's Dugan. Old Dan Dugan's reporting, Joe Judge has been fired as Giants coach. John Mara, I said before the season started that I wanted to feel good about the direction we were headed when we played

our last game of the season. Unfortunately, I cannot make that statement, which is why we have made this decision. Now, I don't know if he felt this way immediately after the game ended,

if it was immediately upon a third and nine goal line formation and backed up where you send your quarterback in for a death sentence. I don't know if it was all the fodder that happened afterwards maybe by aaron rogers saying go ahead and call that one in maddox smack you in the mouth basically i don't know if it was a joke that was made of the giants organization which has been something

that's been happening for years and before the season started mara mara mara mar. Mara. Mara. Either or. P-L-A-Z-A. P-L-A-Z-A. Okay, so it's a plaza for sure. I mean, I don't even know what you're speaking. Plaza. Yeah. I would have said plaza. Plaza. Depends on if it's the hotel or a place where a bunch of stores are.

So if the title is something, the plaza, because they want to sound yup, yup. Yeah, plaza. Okay, you call it the plaza. But a strip of stores is a plaza. Say my last name, please. Moraldo. Moraldo., please. Moraldo. Moraldo. Moraldo.

Mara. Wow. Mara. Like a Plaza. Is Mara... How you doing? How you doing? Hi, Coach Richie.

Enzo Navarro. Could be. Mara. Well, this particular Italian was sick of fucking talking to all the other billionaires about why his team is terrible. Yeah. And going into the season, he said he thought he had it in his Bill Belichick and Joe Judge throughout the season.

He said that. Now he's entering another offseason in which his franchise is a laughingstock amongst the billionaires. And that is garnering change in New York and New Jersey. Joe Judge, ah, get him enforced into retirement. Whole blank slate. Goodbye, Danny Dimes. Maybe Saquon sticks around, and maybe the Giants, for the first time in five years,

will have a winning record at some point during an NFL season. It's not crazy to think that Rodgers was the one that spurred this, right? I mean, we got a lot of tweets. I got a lot of tweets yesterday saying, and Max Kellerman this morning said Aaron and his friends are the reason why this all— the fuck up max but they they said that's the reason you can say the show's name yeah okay max come on come on come on i don't know if he was doing this i've never met the guy i'm sure he's great human whatever the kid well i'm sure he's a good guy i'm not a hermian well i don't know him at all but him saying it i I think, kind of spurred the conversation fodder.

And then others started talking about it. The internet was on top of it last night. I mean, maybe Aaron, the MVP speaking right into the camera going, this is Bush League bullshit. Maybe that is exactly what Mara was thinking about the conversations he's got to have with other billionaires. That's the first thing I thought. What's that?

When I saw that. Oh, yeah, you did send it in the group text immediately after. Yeah, first thing I thought. I think it was more so what you said. I think the GM went in there and was like, first of all, you've got to fire that fucking guy. Whoever they were interviewing probably said, have you listened to his press conferences? I think if he just shut his mouth and did the more so,

we didn't coach well, we didn't play well, all that shit, instead of being like, hey, we had to get our punterter warmed up so we wanted to start with a bunch of three and out ain't nothing wrong with getting a punter in the flow absolutely they're not i mean we shouldn't be trying to yeah you're trying to start the game with a three and out so your punter can get his legs warm no no no he was just getting him in the flow of the game was whether or not you should go for it on fourth down yes one is the fourth and short it wasn't he was trying to get three and out so let's not paint that narrative hashtag Hashtag stat that. Hashtag stat that. I mean, hey, this is a Belichick guy.

I would like to see him succeed, but unfortunately he made himself look like a clown throughout the season. That was a couple days ago where they said it was reported that Joe Judge will have input in the general manager search, which made all the Giants fans and the national media go, these people are a bunch of clowns.

And then Maziano hit the news, hit the get up and said, they're listening to Joe Judge on whether or not he thinks he'd get along with the person. He's not making the actual decision on who the GM is. And I think that actually makes sense, right? Yeah. And they also, Maz also reported, the GM is also going to be able to say whether or not he thinks he'd get along with Joe Judge. They're just trying to get all information.

Then, just what, a day later, Aaron does do his thing, the ridicule continues, and he's gone. It seems to be quite an about-face when publicly it didn't feel that way. I think Giants fans are ultimately happy because change brings this reinvigorated feeling of hope and optimism that the next GM and the next head coach will be able to come in and bring us back to the promised land of when Strahan and Eli and the boys were making miraculous plays. So that is where the Giants fans are now until about week four or five. Same old bullshit, our team stinks and always goes.

That stinks for them. I don't like that at all. Well, I just assume, like, if they really did want to fire him, why wouldn't you just do it on Monday when all those other guys get fired and Flores does too? So it's kind of like monday when all those other guys get fired and flores does too so it's kind of like if you would have seen joe judge get fired on monday would be like oh okay well you know he fucking stunk but they wait and they do it on tuesday when no one else gets fired he's the only guy that does and then now we're all talking about it like it does seem that

merrill was sitting around and saw roger said he's like uh we just you know what fuck this guy get him out of here hey we're laughing stock that immunized tovid dr joe rogan friend is right this guy sucks how many people told mara that this guy stinks you think and this goes and i don't i know this is going to be quite a shot at maybe the patriots joe judge b flow man genie bill o'brien you go Joe Judge, B-Flow, Mangini, Bill O'Brien. You go down the long... Patricia.

Matt Patricia. Bill O'Brien. I don't know. Okay. You don't know where I'm headed. Long list of former Patriots coaches that go and be a head coach elsewhere, and everybody thinks they're fucking assholes.

And you can be a fucking asshole if you win. When you don't win, it's hard to keep everybody rowing in the same particular fashion if their life is absolutely miserable. I feel like it's because they come from the New England Patriots, the Belichick tree, where life is not fun. Hey, you know what's fun? Winning football games.

We're working hard. We're not laughing. We're not fucking around. It's the Patriot way. Everybody works in different fashions. There's obviously different ways to win, but the Patriot's way is pretty well known by everybody. Hey, this might not be the most lit time.

So whenever these coaches get head coaching jobs elsewhere, they feel like, okay, I've seen it win. This is how we win. This is how we're going to build our program. They probably tell the ownership that. Just like we did in New England, I'm going to build this thing around hard work, the foundation around some principles, and this is what we're going to do. We're going to coach them hard. We're going to win games. And you can do that if you're Bill Belichick because your resume says, hey, if you listen to all my bullshit and you do pushups

and pads and you run laps And I tell you at halftime that you fucking stink I could do all this stuff because the resume says we gonna be in the Super Bowl every other year for the next 20 years That is gonna be a step But if you go in there and you stink and you're trying to do all these things You're gonna lose a bunch of adults grown men quickly. That's just how it goes You have to kind of evolve into the asshole I think I don't think you can just immediately

drop in. And I think every single person that has come from the Bill Belichick umbrella has been treated the exact same way. This guy fucking stinks by everybody. You're not Bill, dude. You're not Bill. It's how everybody starts to react. And that's a tough thing to overcome as well. And that's why I

mentioned Bill O'Brien, because we know from the man in the arena, he's been a prick since he started coaching football and you know with everything that has gone on in houston the past year and plus really you know he took a couple he took the the sean watson led team to the playoffs they were up 24 nothing against the chiefs at one point you know they had some success but yeah yeah success i mean beeflo won eight of his last nine games but but now it's just coming out, yeah, the guy's a fucking asshole. Can't communicate with anybody.

That's the reports that are happening. I mean, now granted, they didn't make the playoffs. They won for the first time in a long time, so you would think, hey, let's keep this coach around. I'm not commenting on that or not. Should the players deal with an asshole if you're winning? Yes, I think naturally that is the case. But he couldn't communicate.

Judge is this asshole. Man, Genie had them doing Oklahoma drills at like 6 a.m. or something like that on Wednesdays, full pads. I mean, there was just this. J.J. Watt got into, allegedly. Allegedly. Got into a fight. It seems to be a common. Matt Patricia did not get along with him.

By the way, we get along with Matt Patricia. Good guy. I probably get along with all these dudes as humans. We probably would enjoy how much they love football, how intense they are, how passionate they are. But whenever you're talking to a group of men, if they don't see success and you're a fucking asshole, it's going to be hard to keep them all on the same page. Yeah, absolutely. So sorry to interrupt, but I want to let you know that if you're not gambling with fandle you're wrong okay fandle sportsbook is available in uh

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time again uh we love the hell out of fandle sports book and you will too if you haven't used it yet use it nah also there's fantasy on there daily fantasy and free to play games where you can win money shout out to vandal shout to you let's get back to the show ladies and gentlemen joining us a goat hall of famer an icon a man who retired at the age that he felt he was ready to retire that left the entire world wanting more of his physical football greatness. Here presenting and pitching the Rocket Mortgage Super Bowl Square Sweepstakes, which is something everybody needs to get involved in. You got to do it.

Ladies and gentlemen, Barry Sanders. Yeah! Barry, what's going on, dude? Pat, man, it's great to be here, man. Great to be here. I'm sorry I had you guys i had you guys waiting man having to talk about cockroaches sorry about that hey hold on barry i want to let you know we got down bad we were talking reincarnation we were talking cockroach i mean

we were down bad waiting for you barry we're excited you're here there's nothing more resilient than a cockroach though man those things i tell you hard to get rid of hell yeah okay so i mean you you clearly have some thoughts on this there's no way if your soul is reincarnated in new things after you die that the cockroach is one of the the better soul landing spots do you think that or do you believe their resiliency would be a good place to be reincarnated at yeah i think i think it's all relative, man. I think it depends on what perspective you're coming from, how good you had it on this side of things. You know, so.

Barry, I know that you've been presenting and talking about the Rocket Mortgage Super Bowl Square sweepstakes all morning. I assume we're the first one to ask you about reincarnation, and that is 100% on us. Let's talk about the Super Bowl Square sweepstakes presented by Rocket Mortgage. What is it, how is it, and how do we win? Absolutely, man. It's just Rocket Mortgage giving away tons of cash to fans once again.

It's the biggest game of squares ever. It's the Rocket Mortgage Super Bowl Square sweepstakes. Every score change, fans have a chance of winning $50,000. So extra points, field goals, touchdowns, two-point conversions. And then there's two grand prizes where fans will have a chance of winning half a million dollars. So at halftime and at the end of the game, Rocket Mortgage is going to give away half a million dollars. For fans who recommend friends, you have an opportunity of winning additional squares. So please go to Rocket Mortgage Squares dot com.

Sign up. You know, the entry window closes February 11th, I believe, the Friday before Super Bowl. So, yeah, it's Rocket Mortgage just really, really allowing fans to win a lot of cash for Super Bowl. Barry, I'm sorry. Did you say $50,000 or $15,000 for every score change? $50,000. $50,000 for every score change. Rocket Mortgage is doing fucking good. And half a million for the two grand prizes.

Hey, that's a lot of money going out, Barry. Have you ever participated in this and have you ever won? We just assume you're good at everything. I haven't participated. Hey, I've won just being able to team up with Rocket Mortgage. Oh, hey! Word out to fans. Let's talk about Rocket Mortgage.

It's from Michigan, I believe, right? Michigan State. Michigan State. So, obviously, deep ties to the Lions and to Michigan State, I believe is now presented by Rocket Mortgage, the Spartans here. And Dan's giving back to the Michigan community in a huge way. You will always be remembered as a Detroit Lion. I think the same thing for you.

With what MCDC did this year and that team, a lot of fight all the way to the end. There's a lot of franchises that didn't win a lot of games, and there's a lot of franchises that look in a lot worse situation than the Detroit Lions currently are. What are your thoughts on what MCDC is doing with them and the future of the entire program? Well, yeah, I think, you know, it was a tough year, obviously, Pat,

but I think you look at the last month and a half of the season. You know, we won three games. We were in a lot of other games. We beat a division rival who's going to the playoffs, the last game of the season. And you know this, Pat, from being in the league. Sometimes there's a very slim margin between top teams, middle teams, and bottom teams.

We know that, and I know Coach Campbell understood. We had our work cut out for us coming into this season. We are, you know, somewhat rebuilding, but we saw a lot of fight. We saw guys out there playing their hearts out to the very end. That's what you like to see. And so now we're just trying to figure out, okay, who's going to be with us, you know, going forward and who's not a part of that picture, you know. But but I think there's some some certainly some things we can take from from the year and some positive things we can take, you know, beating beating the Cardinals at home was another big one as well.

as well you know so so yeah i mean um but we understand you know hey look you look you look around our division you look at packers you realize that they're the class of division um you know they're one of the best teams in the league and and uh and even not just the packers but you're always going to have a fight in this division with with um the vikings and the bears and and so you know we we really have to do our homework this offseason and get ready for next year. Barry, the way that you ran was so unique in your body control and everything you could do. I'm just curious, like growing up, did you play other sports? Do you think that helped you if you did? And like, did you do any kind of different or unique training? Or you just always been this guy that's been so elusive and able to cut and stop on a dime and all that? I think it was a combination of things.

I think, you know, I love being a running back. I love watching running backs as a kid. You know, whether you were high school or college or pro running back, the guys who were a big influence on me were guys like Terry Metcalf and guys like Tony Dorsett and Marcus Allen, OJ Simpson, you know, and guys like that, you know, and so absolutely, absolutely. I'm just saying, you know, but and so and so but to answer your question, I think, you know, and eventually I realized that, yes, I'm a I'm a runner.

And so I think I did a lot of just running, running drills to prepare. I was gifted with good natural ability to run. As a young player, it took me a while to learn that my main gift was being a runner. To get comfortable in my workouts, really, really pushing it and really focusing on that, that part of my game. But I've always loved the running back position, you know, and but to answer your question, yeah, I think I'm that kid from that generation. I was always outside playing. The other sports that I played was basketball. I loved playing basketball.

And I ran track a little bit and have always been just a diehard football fan. Whenever you, because you are the standard at this point for a lot of people, whenever you hear comparisons like, this guy's got a little Barry Sanderson. He looked like Barry when he did it. Oh, it looked like he's got a little Barry in the second and third quarter. Do you appreciate that? Do you hate that? Do you think some people deserve it and warrant it?

For instance, I'm a standard version of a white body, so I get a lot of people that tweet me like, hey, people say we look alike, and it's like a smack in the mouth sometimes. I'm like, is that right? Is this actually happening? this is a problem for you whenever the you know they say oh this guy looks like barry this guy looks like barry do you enjoy that do you appreciate that and there's some runners that you watch in the league today that you're like okay i like the way this guy plays no to me it's always it's always a compliment and i know that uh i know that for me, you know, um, like I said before,

there were a lot of great players that had an influence on me and the way I run. Um, and I probably get, get a lot of credit for, um, for, you know, looking at guys like Billy Sims, you know, and try to try and imitate him. And, um, and, but, you know, people give me credit for, for a lot of those things that i didn't necessarily initiate like a gail sayers or something like that um but it's always a compliment and i think i think the nfl has a lot of great young running back talent in the league um you'd look at what jonathan taylor did this year hey you like him hey he led the league why didn't they just give him the ball the entire time barry i can't I can't imagine how he would not get 35 carries

against the Jaguars. I have no idea how that happened. Does Barry know football or no? But you look at I'm sure Derrick Henry will be back next year bigger and stronger than ever. Obviously I think he's maybe playing in the playoffs, but

you look at Derrick Henry, like I mentioned, Jonathan Taylor, you look at the Nick Chubb kid or the Jacobs kid. I mean, there's a lot of good young running back talent out there, you know, but at the top of that list, you look at, you know, I think you put Jonathan Taylor and Derrick Henry. Don't forget about Zeke Elliott. You know, Zeke Elliott had another solid year this year.

And so, yeah, I think there are a lot of good young running backs. Do you think the position doesn't matter for the style of play, you guys, the skill set still remains? If you were dropped into this game today, you think, and I don't want you to ever be put in a position where you would have to compliment yourself. Other people have done that a lot. But do you think your skill set would be able to match up well with the

current NFL? And do you think you'd be able to still shed game to running backs of the current generation, even though the game has changed so much? I think that's a good question. I think I would love the opportunity to find out, Pat, honestly. You still got it? This guy still got it. Well, the reason I say it is because I know the game has evolved. I know defenses are better, things like that.

But I also feel like offenses have evolved, you know, with run pass options where you don't even know, you know, what whether you're going to run or pass, you know, when you break the huddle, you know. And so I think I think there are a lot of things that keep defenses on their heels, you know. And so I think there are a lot of really intriguing things that these offenses do to be able to create room for running backs. So, yeah, no, I think about that question all the time, Pat. I think Motor City, Dan Campbell would sign you up. Oh, yeah. And maybe they'd pay you back that money they stole from you, too,

you and Calvin Johnson. Maybe that'll break the curse and get them some wins. Go ahead, Foxy. Yeah, Barry. I unfortunately am too young to remember watching you play football, which really is a damn shame. But whatever it always says about you is that you'd score a touchdown, hand the ball to the ref, score a touchdown, hand the ball to the ref.

And I just want to know, why did you start doing that? I think mostly that came from my dad just telling me to play the game a certain way. And it's something, you know, that for me always as a running back, there was nothing greater than scoring a touchdown, you know, other than winning the game. And so I always felt like, hey, that was the icing on the cake. You know, what else is there left to do? You know, so really it just came from playing the game a certain way.

And that was just my perspective. Do you hate the fact that whenever somebody has a motion or celebrates, they immediately say Barry just handed the ball to the official? Are you against people that are, you know, very excitable and much different than you? And do you also appreciate the fact that that is how you are referenced in basically every single celebration conversation? No, yeah.

For me, it's a very emotional game. It really is. It's an exciting game. And so I don't, you know, I don't hold it against anyone for getting excited and just being their authentic self out there. You know? So, yeah, I think, but for me, yeah, so as a spectator, yeah,

I mean, whatever they want to do to have fun within reason, that's fine with me. Yeah, within reason. And, by the way, that shouldn't be NFL enforced. That should be coaches and teams and player enforced, I think, Barry. You probably have a much different relationship with the NFL than I do and probably feel a different way. Whenever they initiated the no celebration thing

and refs were deciding what was too much and what wasn't, I just thought that was a bad decision, Barry, bad, bad decision. No, I agree with you. I think they've gone too far. I think they've gone too far. If a guy makes a great play, I think you have to be careful how you punish him. Right. But how you punish him and punish his team. You know, so I'm with you on that. I think they've gone too far with punishing these guys.

You know, not not just with that, but we don't even want to talk about, you know, roughing the passer and defenseless players and things like that. That's a whole other conversation. Oh, the game's soft, Barry. Oh, the game is soft, Barry. Your name is used in that taunting panel all the time. Like Barry Sanders, you are used in that entire thing.

So to hear you say that, and I think it's because you're a former player and you've been in the locker room and you meet guys from all different backgrounds with different personalities it's like hey some guys that's how they get up they lose their mind whenever good things happen why are you punishing the entire team and if it's too much the game will punish them the other teams will punish them coaches will punish them the game well i don't think it has to be nfl enforced that's just our opinions. But what does Barry fucking Sanders know? He said give the ball to Jonathan Taylor 35 times. I'm asking the same questions. Go ahead, Ty.

Barry, for people around my age who maybe only got to see you play, you know, maybe the last year or so of your career, YouTube, I'll go on there and watch compilation highlights that are like two hours long. You just making guys look stupid on the football field i'm just curious do you ever go back and watch some of that stuff and just kind of think like oh yeah i i was really fucking good like do you ever do that or not really no you know you know what i i i see the replays uh whenever someone shows it to me um i don't uh i don't

often go onto youtube and and and look at those things. I do have a lot of, obviously, a lot of great memories of it. And, you know, the game that I played in the 90s, as you know, you know, it was a tough, physical, dangerous game. And so for a small guy like me to survive, you know, I had to be creative and, you know, try to use a little magic and, you know, things like that. So I knew I was never going to be an Earl Campbell type runner, you know, so I had to try to use some smoke and mirrors. Hey, is that instinct? Is that instinct film study natural, you think, from all your years of just being a good runner and playing outside and just being able to detect where and setting people up leverage wise so that you can get

them off balance is that just is that film is that work is it just something that you think i think i think it's natural i think a lot of it was natural i think a lot of it was you know going back to just me daydreaming as a kid um about playing, you know, but also just the natural abilities that I have and just that burning passion at every level, man, whether you're talking about little league or middle school or high school, you know, I was just infatuated with football and with being a running back. And oftentimes coaches thought I was too small. But sometimes I played a lot on my teams and sometimes I barely touched the field. But I love being on a football team.

I love and I always loved the position of running back. And when I got to high school and realized that I had a chance to, you know, maybe had a chance to earn a scholarship to college, you know, I was working harder than any other kid that I saw, you know, in my immediate sphere. harder than any other kid that I saw, you know, in my immediate sphere. You know, and I was always running or lifting or fantasizing about football. So I think to answer your question, I think it's a combination of a lot of those things. But certainly, you know, having a good natural abilities to go with just the kind of work ethic,

you know, to be able to make me allow me to achieve those things. Hey, best trait you can have, by the way, work ethic. I think that is honestly one of the best traits of all time. It is the silent X factor in basically every human that is successful. Not as much as Boomer Sison, obviously, but it is a big one. Go ahead, AJ. Barry, when Dan Campbell was hired by the Detroit Lions, I don't know if they talked to you beforehand, if you're part of anything of their search for a new coach.

What was your thoughts when they hired him? I know they're trying to get back on track. He seems to be the guy. Do you agree that he can definitely get him going in the right direction? Well, I'm certainly hopeful for that. I was aware that they were looking at several candidates, and I knew that Coach Campbell was high on Chris Spillman's list. You know, and so that's that's really as far as far as you go.

I mean, you know, I didn't make any decisions or anything like that, but I did talk to Chris during the process and understood that he had, you know, he was going to interview certain candidates. and understood that he had, you know, he was going to interview certain candidates. And so that was really how I first learned about Coach Campbell, you know. And so, but yeah, hey, look, we know that he's coming from a winning culture. He knows what it looks like, you know. And hopefully we'll give him everything he needs to be able to turn things around here. Barry, there's a lot of coaching vacancies right now, a lot of people getting hired. Why do you think some coaches stink, dude?

Why do you think some are really good, and why do you think some just stink? I think, you know what, to be able to connect with people and with young men, you know, I think it's a gift. You know, I think everyone's not cut out for it. Maybe it's something you can learn over time um you know but uh but yeah it's not it's not easy really to be able to take all those personalities and and uh you know different positions and skill levels and all these things um and uh and really bring it together to create a unit. You know, and some guys have that. Some guys understand the science of bringing in.

You look at how successful someone like Pete Carroll or Bill Belichick has been. It's not necessarily they've had greater resources. You know, they just mastered the art of coaching, you know, and some guys just really connect with people, you know, and are willing to get a lot out of certain people, you know. They're able to pull that thing out of you that maybe you didn't even know you had, you know, and so I think a lot of great coaches are able to do that. So the interesting thing there is you said Pete Carroll and Bill Belichick

who are from the outside two polar opposite coaches. There's different ways to get success. It is not easy because the guys, although they're in Madden, every day your 99 guy might show up with 60 as a personality or in a mood or whatever the case is, and that's at any position. You have to make sure that nothing gets off the railroad track. You've got to keep everybody together. It's psychology.

It's motivation. It's also knowing the game. I mean, it is a very tough gig, and a lot of people stink at it, and we get a chance every single offseason to see who's the next people trying. Go ahead, Connor. Yeah, Barry, you mentioned Derrick Henry coming back for the Titans. Since he's been out so long as a running back, do you think it'll take him some time to get into the flow of the game?

Or, you know, next week in the divisional round, he'll just hit the ground running and run for 250 yards? Which is what we're expecting. Yes. You know, it's interesting because obviously it depends on what he's been doing, you know, and how much he's been able to really get back into somewhat of football condition. But I've always felt like, you know, you give the right player a certain amount of rest and you're going to be in trouble because he's going to have fresh legs.

He hasn't been getting beat up every week. Whoever plays the Titans could be in for a real surprise. You know, I'm not that Derrick Henry's going to surprise anyone, but you know what I'm saying. I mean, sometimes that can really work to your advantage, I believe. You know, if they, you know, so, yeah, I wouldn't be too concerned about his injury. And I would think that he would come back better than ever and fresh.

He's had a he's had a what a month vacation or whatever you want to call it. You know, so so, yeah, I would I would tend to think he would be ready, really, really ready to go. Can't wait to watch it. Can't wait to participate in the Rocket Mortgage Super Bowl Squares sweepstakes. We appreciate you stopping by every single year to talk about this and everything else. You're awesome, man. I know people tell you all the time that you retired too early, you had a lot of game left in you, but people should also be telling you, you're great media, man.

I wish we'd get to see you talk a little bit more. You're awesome. No, hey, Pat. Hey, thanks for having me. I hope you guys will consider signing up for the Rocket Mortgage Squares sweepstakes. It's always good to talk to you, man, and continue

success to you. Hopefully, we can do it again soon. Hey, man. I'm going to win, though. That sucks for everybody. I'm going to win. Ladies and gentlemen, Barry Sanders. Thank you, Barry. Thank you, Barry. Joining us now, Barry Sanders. Thank you, Barry. Thank you, Barry. Joining us now, A.J. Hawk. Howdy, A.J.

What's up, dude? What's happening, guys? Just living out here, man. I'm excited for our – did you hear what Tun Diggs said earlier about the game that we are doing our seven-game parlay on? 20 to 30 mile an hour winds, rain, cold, in Philadelphia. Not cold. It's in Tampa. Oh, it's in Philadelphia. Not cold. It's in Tampa. Oh, it's in Tampa.

Mm-hmm. Oh, fuck. We're good. Hurricane weather. Hurricane weather. We're good. Is it really hurricane weather? No, it's quarter inch to half inch of rain and 20 to 30 mile an hour winds with gusts of higher.

Why do I think it was in Philly? I looked up Brady and rain games. He's never a QBR rating under 50, so you're good. Lenny Fournette's back. QBR of a QBR rating under 50, so you're good. Lenny for an aspect. QBR of 4.3. I mean, are you guys God? Do we know for sure this is what the weather's going to be? Joe Norio isn't here, but everybody on the internet, we're trying.

Because Joe knows. Anyways, are you still locked in on the game that we're picking there, or do you want to move to another game? No, I'm still locked in on this one. No one's on Cards Rams, I don't think. Well, that's what I'm saying. We could one's on Cards Rams, I don't think. Well, that's what I'm saying. We could just move to Cards Rams, but it's Monday.

You don't want that. You're moving? Let's group that one. Let's all do that one together. Gumpy, you look awesome right now. Thank you. You look fucking awesome. Thank you. No problem.

Can we get a zoom in on Gump real quick, please? Doesn't zoom. Look at how cool he looks. Damn. My reading glasses. All right, so we will put a same game parlay together for the Monday night game. After we go four for four on the weekend, start off with the pod boys doing this

whole thing. AJ, let's talk about some NFL news that is happening. The Chicago Bears coaching search is up to about 400 people. The general manager won as well. Bill Polian has been brought in to help. What does that mean? What does that mean? I was drafted by Bill Polian's crew.

Bill Pullian was the GM when I was at Indianapolis. I understood he built up the Colts, the Panthers, and the Bills. Absolute Hall of Fame legend of a man. He's been on this show and has been great. Does he know the modern football world, though, you think? Is it just getting somebody else in the

room that has had success? I guess that's a good thing, but it's fascinating to see who's going to hire who, AJ. And Chicago is heated up. They've got a lot of names on their board. Zito's graphic, please. Where the hell's my graphic? Yeah, Zito made a graphic. God damn it.

Only for the Bears, you mean? Only. Yes. Only for the Bears, yeah. This is the Bears' head coaching search. Zito spent four hours this morning putting this thing together because he is so worried about the future. AJ, how would you go about picking

and finding and how do you know who's telling you the truth and who isn't full of shit? I mean, I guess you've got to check the references. That's the biggest thing. I would talk to people and get, like, I want people on both sides that agree with this guy, that disagree with him, that have had issues with him, guys that maybe have been around him their whole life. You've got

to talk to everybody, I think. Who do you do you like amazon i look at reviews to see what's good yeah reviews are always something you should check out depending upon where you're shopping or viewing things that this list is probably going to be a pretty similar list everywhere though yeah yes this so this is the group of people this year that are up for the current seven head coaching jobs are open i believe six in the raiders I think they're including the Raiders in that seven because it's only six head coaches. And then three GM spots, right? Yes.

Minnesota, New York, Chicago. Chicago, yeah. So there's three GM spots, seven coaching spots. If you don't count Richie Bisaccia, they might go on a run. Who knows? It is a wild time. It's exciting to see which names are on what list, though, because now you're getting to see who thinks who should finally get a job

at the top of this whole thing. Yeah, all those names are probably going to be similar between all the teams except for the Bears will probably have Vince Lombardi on it and stuff like that since Pollians. What? Well, that is what I was referring to earlier. Bill Pollian has done a lot for the game. He's great.

He's a Hall of Famer. I'm lucky. He's a great brain. But the modern NFL, I mean, does he know any of these where's jim call i saw uh that's what i'm saying jim caldwell bill polly is from that try i bet you saw it ty do you see that the bears uh i guess they they want to interview elliot wolf for the gm job he was in green bay for a while i wanted to be the gm then was out of there now he's in new england i think he's young elliot might be a year or two older than me like he don't take the he knows. Well, and also, if you look at, like, Cleveland, Andrew Barry,

who's, like, our age, is higher than GM. We are getting to the age where our friends and our peers are going to be in positions of power in the biggest league on earth. Speaking of positions of power in the biggest league on earth, I just learned that this was a title at the beginning of the show when I read it aloud. Senior coordinating producer of NFL films, the man who is responsible, I read it aloud. Senior coordinating producer of NFL films,

the man who is responsible, I believe, for this year's Hard Knocks in season, which premiere, the final episode is tonight, 10 p.m. Eastern on HBO Max. Ladies and gentlemen, Keith Coswell. Yeah! Everybody, Keith! Thanks for having me, guys.

The first thing I would say is that I would not say I'm responsible for this show. To make Hard Knocks as a cast of dozens, sometimes hundreds, to get that show on the air, turned around every week, is something we're really proud of. Great leadership qualities out of you, Keith. I appreciate that. Deflecting

any responsibility to everybody else and acknowledging everybody else's skill. And this show would not happen with all you boys out here. Thank you, Pat. All you boys out here and AJ over there. I appreciate what you just did there, Keith. Can we dive into your role in this whole thing? So I had never heard the title Senior Coordinating Producer.

Is that because of what you just said with 15 and hundreds of people? It's just kind of your job to oversee and make sure everything kind of gets put into place. What is that title? I've never heard it before i even realized i just made it up we uh so we got layers and layers of people here and then adult films like everywhere else um so i'm i guess what you would equate me to on this show on hard knocks on the showrunners so i i do coordinate everything. I kind of set the creative direction with our team of producers and directors in the field.

Uh, I share these duties with, uh, with the guy who's, has been the czar of hard knocks for forever. Ken Rogers jumped in halfway through here and helped out, but we've got, you know,

not to bore you with the details, but it really is to get hard knocks on the air. It's a a herculean task every week we shoot we shoot dozens of hours hundreds of hours of footage every week with the colts uh make one hour of television and as you guys know it's uh it's uh it's a lot hey how is it filming like when you guys are doing hard knocks and you are embedding yourself with these teams, like the people that are running the cameras, the producers, everyone on site, how unique of an experience

is it for them compared to stuff they're used to shooting? Like football coaches, especially in season or during training camp, they can be a bit surly if you're trying to ask them to come in and, hey, we just need five minutes, coach. Like I know a lot of guys that didn't even want to say hello to me, so I can't imagine what they're what they're dealing with there well with with hard knocks it it's almost a an entity unto itself you know like

we have to everybody in the organization knows before it starts that this is happening and that it's going to be something that's part of their lives for this this stretch it's always in training camp it was always one thing to do it in season is a completely different animal we learned a lot doing all or nothing with amazon for five seasons and i don't think we could have done this with the colts had we not learned what we learned over those several years starting with the pan, starting with the Cardinals, the year they went to the championship game under B.A. And we did that for five years. And then what got us off to a great start this year in regard to what you're talking about is that we were there the whole season.

You know, we had a small crew. Our directors were there on the ground from week one, just one or two days a week. And we had the cameras, the robotic unmanned cameras in their meeting rooms the whole season, just kind of getting them used to it. And we were capturing some background material, doing off field shoots with the players and coaches getting to know them so that by the time we hit the ground running on November 17th in that first episode the team was already used to us and they and they understood you know there's going to be three or four guys at every practice who are wearing a mic there's going to be multiple people at every game that are mic'd up the cameras are going to be in every meeting room rolling all the time all day

and and I think they that's part of what i think made this so natural and seamless from the from the word go um with the colts yeah i mean they started one in five so all right took a little bit to get used to sounds like keith worry about that when we talked to hbo this summer and we were trying to you know sell this to them like all right hey let's let's make our own marvel cinematic universe here let's make our own Marvel Cinematic Universe here. Let's do the Hard Knocks Cinematic Universe. It's time to expand the brand. And they were excited about it, and they said,

so are the Colts going to be any good? And we said, well, here's the deal. They've got the hardest first five games of anybody in the NFL, and we're going to be really, really happy if they're 2-3. But likely they're 1-4 four and hopefully not oh and five but we think by the time we hit the air if we start they have these two games they have a thursday nighter against the jets and then they got against the jags and if we come into this hot they could be five when we start and uh worked out that way so i know you're probably making a lot of money over there at NFL Films,

but if you're projecting how seasons are going to go for people, you should get into gambling. We would like your thoughts, Keith, before seasons on everybody for over-unders and totals and stuff. That was my only correct prognostication. So how come HBO gets it and not Amazon? Is that just a matter of preference? Is that HBO said yes, Amazon didn't want to do it anymore?

Because now with all the team social departments trying to do their own behind-the-scenes clips. I remember Hard Knocks look at training camp was the first time for everybody to kind of see what training camp in the NFL was like if you hadn't been able to go as a fan, let alone behind the scenes. You hadn't been able to go as a fan, let alone behind the scenes. Now with social media, now with everybody having a content creation team, it feels like that content is available more often. Now, NFL films take shit to a completely different level. You just said you pitched it to HBO for an in-season Hard Knocks, and you said you couldn't have done it without the Amazon ones.

How come at Transition Bear, are you guys just trying to be good partners with hbo and what does the future look like for in-season hard knocks you think well we talked to everybody and um great partner we love doing with them and uh it could come back in the future they've expanded it to other sports um but doing it in season and doing it in real time is something that we all believed was, was sort of the next step after those five seasons of all or nothing that aired after the season.

And HBO is, you know, hard knocks is known not only for its access, but, but for being in real time. So we all felt that HBO was, was really a natural fit. And also that the hard knocks, you know, And also that the Hard Knocks, you know, Hard Knocks is special.

You know, we've been doing it for 20 years. And the opportunity to kind of grow it and take it in this new direction was something that we were really excited about. And HBO, man, they're the best to work with. They're just, they're an amazing partner. We do shows for everybody. We love everybody. Yeah. But partnership with HBO for 40 years now,

going back to the start of Inside the NFL and through all these years of Hard Knocks and several, I just finished a special on Terry Bradshaw that's going to be on HBO in February. And it's just really special to work with HBO. Okay, so you've been around the nfl a long time obviously at nfl films and congrats on getting in the real time idea executed that the execution is everything everybody has ideas everybody thinks things are good ideas the execution of it is

something that the nfl films have been able to do since the beginning of the league basically 33rd owner very talented group of people over there nothing Nothing but respect. But you've been there for 25 years, if our research is right. Is that accurate? That's right. Just finished up my 25th season. Got here right out of college, 1997. Okay. Keith, we appreciate your service to the NFL, first of all.

Legit, actual. That's not bullshit. As somebody who enjoys NFL content. But you guys have to be seeing the same numbers that everybody else is seeing. The NFL, 91 out of the top 100 telecasts in the year 2021. The average viewers, allegedly, all these numbers are bullshit these days, but 17.1 million viewers on TV and digital. How much of that resonates with you guys in the NFL film saying, hey, everybody loves the NFL, it seems like. There's one common theme.

We crush ratings. We crush everything. How do you not overexpose it? How do you do it in the right way? How do you continue to build the game as one of the partners basically of the NFL at NFL Films? Well, we've noticed ever since they elevated my title to Senior Coordinating Producer, it's just gone

up and up. That's good leverage, by the way. Tell them to give you a raise over there. Roger Goodell. This guy's the money mover here. It's an amazing machine to be part of, the NFL. It really is. I know we all like to

critique the NFL. It's an easy target. Being on the inside of it, working with NFL films. We're down here in an outpost in south jersey mount laurel new jersey outside of basically a suburb of philly and um we've got the league office and on park avenue we've got nfl media um out in la by the new stadium but to be to work with all these people and to see how many brilliant, talented people make up those offices and put these events together, I don't think it's an accident that the NFL sees the success it succeeds. The product continues to evolve every year.

When you compare it to baseball, which fights every rule change, the NFL changing its rules every single year, right? Constantly, and sometimes we like it, sometimes we don't. Sometimes they try something like replay on pass interference, right? Didn't work, scrap it. It would have worked, Keith. I need you in there battling for that, by the way.

It was the execution. The idea was a good one. The execution was poor, Keith. Those are 45-yard penalties. But I think it could have worked, too, personally. Thank you, Keith. But

the reality is that I think an evolving game, and you've seen it the last 10 years, the way the game has changed since the emphasis on health and I think an evolving game, and you've seen in the last 10 years the way the game has changed since the emphasis on health and safety really took form. The game's only gotten more exciting. I mean, as much as we missed the big hits over the middle, the game's been great.

What we saw Sunday with those three overtime games, it was unbelievable. My heart was breaking for the Colts but it set up a one o'clock overtime game a four o'clock overtime game eight o'clock overtime game each of which had a team clinch a playoff berth which is pretty pretty unbelievable hard knocks is in a building one time they don't make the playoffs i'm not fucking saying you actually feel bad or not but go ahead aj i'm sorry he's got a question keith so don't worry about it what's the plan moving forward for you guys? Could you see a possibility of multiple teams a year having a Hard Knocks crew follow them around?

AJ, how much money do you have? Because we're going to need a lot to do that. Oh, no, no, no. Put that stat back up. You guys got all the money. You guys got it. Look at this. 370 billion total minutes consumed.

Sports books getting involved. Hey, Keith, you don't need arm. I mean, AJ's got a lot of arm. Most owners, though, I feel like most owners want the publicity. They want those cameras there. Well, so what did you guys – I'm curious to hear your point of view because I've heard you talk about the show a couple times, and I think it was kind of a – it flew under the radar here,

the Colts show, as it started. You know, people weren't quite sure people didn't know about it at first gathered a little steam the colts got hot but our our view and i think the colts view is that it was really neat to see under the hood during a season and get to know these guys the players like kenny moore the second and darius leonard and deforest buckner who are not only great players players, but they're really great people. I mean, we saw it. And when I get asked about the NFL and the players,

I always tell the people in my life, like, man, you know, we see the headlines about the occasional knucklehead, but this league is made up of brilliant, hardworking people. You don't get to this place unless you're pretty special. And so I think putting this Hard Knocks on the air in season gave people a look at these players and coaches working as hard as they do in a way that we've never seen before. And I mean, our hope is and our plan is to do this show

for the next 20 years, just like we have the training camp Hard Knocks. And the training camp Hard Knocks will certainly continue. And it's going to be great. But we think we've found a companion piece here that hopefully is something that everybody in the league is going to be excited to be part of. And we know there are doubters and teams that don't want to be part of it, but our goal is for every team to participate in a show like this. Yeah, I think it obviously helped out Indianapolis too. I don't want to say small market, but there's not a lot of ESPN coverage

or Fox coverage or CBS or NBC coverage of the Indianapolis Colts as opposed to the other larger market teams. So if you're the Indianapolis Colts, this is a home run. And the fact that Frank Reich bought in, it sounded like, and Chris Ballard bought in, although it seemed like he edited himself out of a lot of videos. I mean, I don't know if that's the case or not. I'll let the creative stuff remain behind the scenes.

How come we didn't get more Jim Irsay? Keith? I thought we got a nice dose of Ursae Don't you The bi-week episode gave We had Mr. Ursae singing Knock it on Heaven's Door You can't beat that

That should have been the open every week Yeah Open of the first episode was We Will Rock You In the locker room And you'll see him a little bit tonight. We got in his suite the last couple games and got a sense of him. And actually, tonight's episode starts, he kind of sets the table for what's at stake for the Colts

as they entered that week against Jacksonville. And he really laid out what the measure of success is in Indianapolis. And we all know how that week turned out for them. But I think it'll be very interesting for the world to hear the way he set the table. How much after the game are you covering? Are you covering Frank Wright's press conference where he said that he's not going to dive into Carson Wentz and everybody else and then the fallout from that? Or is it just immediately after the game? No, we covered

all day Monday. We shot, we continued to shoot the robotic cameras. We shot his final meeting with the team and speech. So I think you'll see there's after the game there's another 10 minutes that is I think extraordinarily powerful and representative of the love that we saw in that building throughout the whole season, even when it just went horribly wrong at the end for them. Lost the clown town.

Was there any reference to that? There was clowns in the stands, an actual clown town flying overhead. Was that reference at all in Hard Knocks? No clown show in Jacksonville on Hard Knocks. Hard to draw attention to that when they were kicking the crap out of the Colts. That's what made it even. Keith. A little aggressive.

I mean, he's right. Hey, hey, I don't mean to say that pejoratively about the Colts. They were great. I'm not trying to knock the Colts at all. What's your word you used there? I'm going to add that one to my uh words for you pat prejordially i'm not trying to say anything negative about the cults they were phenomenal but boy when you watch this what pa jurative what a word dude that's 25 years in the tv biz pejorative. What a word, dude. That's 25 years in the fucking TV biz, dude. Pejorative.

Five syllables. You didn't get any other five-syllable words in the show today, I bet. No, we have a song. Yeah, we have a song. A jingle has a lot of syllables in it. But when you watch this game in this episode, it's like the Red Wed in uh game of thrones oh hey when that dragon comes in

it was real red and orange yeah it was crazy go ahead ty keith we know with the pre-season hard knocks during training camp that there's like the limitations on can't have a new head coach can't be a team that went to the playoffs last year how How did you guys end up landing on the Colts? Were there any things the NFL said, hey, can't be a team that has done either this, this, or this? And how are you guys going to choose that going forward, do you think? That's a great question. This happened because the Colts, we have a director. His name's Cortland Bragg.

He was one of the four directors out on the show. And he did a piece with Frank Reich last year about his foundation, Not Today. And he met Frank and Linda and befriended them. And they developed a relationship, and Frank really trusts Cort. And that's sort of where it started. And then our senior executive at nfl films ross kett over um started a conversation with carly arce and it and it evolved over the course of 12 18 months and we knew we wanted to go this direction that the next time we embedded with

a team for an entire season we wanted it to to unfold in real time on whatever platform it landed. And the Colts, to their credit, they took this leap with us, a leap that nobody had been willing to make in 20 years, no matter how many people asked for it. And they were forward-thinking and progressive, and they opened the doors. And what you saw in this show, I know everybody likes to think that the team edits everything out and they've got total control of it.

You saw the real thing here. I mean, this was not – they didn't go in every week and take out 10 minutes. I have a couple questions. I don't want to be pejorative here, but how about when it was obvious they should have gave the ball to Jonathan Taylor against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And you guys have the voiceover artist go, you don't need the running back whenever they have the greatest run defense in the NFL and Carson has a hot hand. That seemed to be narrative building.

Was it not? You don't think that was the case? Did we not show Quentin Nelson walk up to Frank and say, let's run the ball right now? We got to run the ball if we're going to win this thing? Oh, so you said ah keith okay that's on me that's senior coordinator producer right there that's senior level stuff you gotta let the players and coaches you know and they what you saw from this team

is a hundred percent authentic to who they are and to the relationships inside that building. In all the years doing this, we've never been more blown away and sort of emotionally invested ourselves in watching a team succeed. And to see the way they got hot, and when they won that Christmas night game in Arizona, my goodness, we were high-fiving. We were so happy for them knowing how hard they'd fought to dig out of that one-and-four hole.

So to see these last two weeks unfold the way they did, the thing is, and you'll hear Leah Schreiber in the voiceover tonight say, at the end of the Jags game, it's impossible to understand what happened to them Sunday. There's nothing we saw last week that would indicate they were about to get ambushed in Jacksonville. Nothing. And that's the thing. Anytime you talk to a coach that used to coach in the NFL or a player in the NFL,

it's like, how come teams show up some weeks and they don't? Chuck Pagano has told us, there's been like the greatest week of practice, greatest warm-up, and then for whatever reason, the game is just a nightmare. Then there's been some terrible weeks, terrible warm-up, bad first quarter, and somehow the team comes back and wins. That's why the NFL is beautiful.

And I can't thank you enough for giving everybody an inside look on what the ebbs and flows of a season look like. It sounds like you're a little bummed. You bummed the season's over for the, and would you have gone into the playoffs with them if they would have made? We were going all the way as far as they went. The show HBO was on. Oh, son of a bitch.

That's, that's exactly what I said. When Taylor got stuffed on fourth down. Oh, me too. No, we were the most pejorative person I've ever heard. Okay, I just want to let you know, backhanded pejoratives all over this conversation about this Indianapolis Colts

squad. I did it correctly, right? I put that definition back up there. I think I'm right, fellas. Yeah, he was. Yeah, and I used it properly too. How about that? I just learned of it. It's a big time word. I'm going to use it a lot now, and I will give you credit. This is from the Cosgrove.

The Cosgrove. The Cosgrove. Go ahead, Tom. Speaking of Liev Schreiber, how did you know that he was going to be the greatest voiceover artist of all time when you guys started Arnox? How great. Oh my goodness he he

so by that point when he took over for hard knocks in 2007 i think he had become hbo's voiceover guy they had started the show 24 7 with boxing and then with hockey and then we rebooted hard knocks in 2007 with the Chiefs. That's the first year I really got involved with it. And we knew, you know, Liev is, you know, look, this is where John Facenda came from. And so we know what the standard for narrators are in sports television. And we are constantly looking for the next great narrator and they come in all

in all different voices and one of the cool things nowadays is is you know it's it's not always you know the deep baritone voice you know middle-aged white guy anymore that that i think it was for decades but liev is so good He's a classically trained actor. He's one of the best actors of our generation. And he hits every note and he hits like on every read. He gets it right on the very first read of every line. He's incredible. And the funny thing is he views his voiceover as a character that he plays.

So sometimes he'll call him the guy. So sometimes we'll write a line and he'll say, the guy would never say this. He's opinionated. He's a brilliant guy. So he's a really interesting guy to work with. And he's sort of got a character that he gets into to do this voiceover work. And,

and there's nobody like him. And it's really fun to be in that writer's room every week. That's what we like to say that the few of us that are in that writer's room, writing those scripts, we have a writer named Jerry Rimal who writes all these lines and he's unbelievable. But when we go through what he writes and get it ready for Liev, that's the most fun hour of the week.

Well, I think you do an incredible job. I can't wait to watch tonight's season finale. Great work all season by you and all the people you coordinate, you know, senior coordinator. And that ain't no purgative. That is actual real. We thank you so much for your service to the league.

And if you can slide in one of those conversations. Okay, yeah, here's a question I have for you that is not really good air, but I would like to get the answer to it. I forget this guy's name. I was sitting in a donkey trailer outside of the Cincinnati Bengals game with IBM who was trying to be the virtual reality pitch for the NFL. I was there with a producer who had been around since the OG Sable. Bigger gentleman, played football. I forget his name. I was there with a producer who had been around since the OG Sable, bigger gentleman played football.

I forget his, he was very nice. He and I went and got beers out in the tailgate, had some food, talked about football. And I learned a lot about NFL films that day. He is. The Tuckett.

Could have been Phil Tuckett. If it was, if it was 10, 15 years ago, he's been gone, but we know this is three years ago. He's been around a long time. This guy was 10, 15 years ago, he's been gone. No, this is three years ago. He's been around a long time. This guy's like one of the oldest guys there, I think.

Maybe Todd Schmidt. I don't know. Look, films... Now he'd remember. Oh, fuck off. NFL Films is such a cool place. We have this big building in Mount Laurel, and we've got over 200 people here 80 80 some produced during football season to produce

shows so like you know we've got like 15 shows that we put out a week right now so you have to and they're all basically two three days after the games and then we're doing 30 for 30s and and and and you know HBO documentaries and everything else we do so it takes like dozens of producers and we have us the other thing is that we have a cinematography department so we have staff cinematographers at NFL films which is something that nobody no production company has like a staff of cinematographers you mostly hire your cinematographer cinematographers freelance so i think that's something institutionally that gives

us a real advantage it was todd it was todd yeah well i got here the same year i did and uh we both got here in 1997 he's a great dude he is great guy as are you we can't. He's a great dude. He is. Great guy, as are you. We can't thank him. He's a big guy. Oh, yeah? Big guy. Cool guy. Loves the game, which I think is what NFL Films has. Like, there's an actual genuine passion, it feels like, for the NFL, right?

Yeah, everybody here loves two things. Football and movies. It's in a tight one. Hell, yeah. We love football, and we love making movies. It's in the title. Hell yeah. We love football and we love making movies. And the chance to wake up every day and come make football movies. And, Pat, you starred in many of them. You're one of the favorite guys we ever worked with, Pat.

We loved interviewing you. When we would have a car wash at the Super Bowl, can we make sure we get McAfee? You're always top of the list. And, AJ, we've made shows the year the Packers won the Super Bowl. You've been in so many of our films. So we've enjoyed working with you guys as much as anybody. Well, it's been an honor to be a part of it.

I appreciate it. Hey, let's get the kicking doofus in here to give some answers. That is a great way to produce, and that's why NFL Films is the best. Can't wait to watch tonight. Please come back on whenever. We really appreciate your time here. Anytime, guys. Really, thanks for having me.

Ladies and gentlemen, Keith Costner. Yeah, Keith! Can't thank you enough for allowing us to penetrate your ear holes on this glorious January 12th. If you enjoyed the show, please tell somebody about it. If you didn't, just act like this never happened, and I apologize for the time wasted. Hashtag end of pod squad.

Let us know where you're at. Maybe win some merch. Ty, please play some independent music and propel these people into a glorious Wednesday evening. We'll see you tomorrow for a There's No Thursday Night Football Thursday, but we're days away from the same game parlay holiday, January 13th. Cheers. Thank you. ស្រូវតែលារបស់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ពីប្រាប់ Outro Music Thank you. Bye. Outro Music Thank you. Outro Music