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Starting point is 00:00:49 Countertop wipes and fly traps Hey fruit flies Your baby boom ends here Save the Everyday with Amazon On this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast, we're going to talk to Dan Sheeks about how you can teach your teenager about financial independence. What's up, everybody, and welcome to the personal finance podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Founder of MasterMoney.com. And today on the Personal Finance Podcast, we have Dan Sheeks, and we're going to be talking about the first to a million.

Starting point is 00:01:41 And if you have any questions about this episode, hit me up on Instagram or TikTok at Master Money. and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever podcast player you love listening to this podcast to. And if you want to help out this show, leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. So today we have Dan on, and Dan has an incredible book called First to a Million. It also accompanies a workbook and some other things as well. And in this book, Dan is teaching people how they can become financially independent, specifically people who are between the ages of 15 to 25.

Starting point is 00:02:13 And this is something that if you know somebody between those ages, I want you to share this episode with them because this episode, we walk through the basics of financial independence, we walk through the difference between an asset and a liability, we walk through how people can actually start to retire early. If someone's young, they can start retiring in their 30s. And even in their 20s, if they find the right assets to invest in. In addition, we talk about how young people should find jobs, how they should go about investing in things like real estate or the stock market. And we go through so many different things that is so incredibly valuable for people who are younger. So this is one of those conversations where even if you are new to personal finance and you're new to financial independence, Dan's book is a fantastic read to go through because it lays out the foundation that you need to understand in order to achieve fire or financial independence. So I'm really excited to share this conversation with you guys. I think you're really going to enjoy this.

Starting point is 00:03:08 So let's welcome in Dan Sheeks. So Dan, welcome to the. personal finance podcast. Thanks, Andrew. Glad to be here. Excited. So we are so incredibly excited to have you today because I think you have some incredibly valuable information that I think young people really need to understand. And before we jump into some of these questions, I think it's really important to go through your background. So tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do. Yeah, I think that's a good place to start, right? Like, who am I and why should I be telling young people what to do with their money? That's a good question. So I've been a high

Starting point is 00:03:42 business teacher for 20 years. I'm in my 20th year right now. So I love working with teenagers and young people in general. Over the course of my career, I've taught classes like personal finance, entrepreneurship, marketing, things like that. They're all elective classes, but really fun to teach. Beyond that, my wife and I are real estate investors, and we have a fairly nice portfolio of real estate investments that are doing well. I'm a big fan and member of the fire community or early financial independence community. I've been following that for a number of years. And I just have a passion for personal finance education in general and advocating for financial literacy, especially among young people. So if you kind of add all that up together and roll into a

Starting point is 00:04:29 ball, that's my main passion and my main focus. I love it. And Dan is the author of First to a million, which is an absolutely fantastic book. I just read through it last weekend. It has some really valuable information, especially with this episode. We want this to be an episode. We want this to be an episode, Dan, where people can share it with a teenager, get them started, get them interested in the fire movement, and then from there, they can dig deeper in your book and the workbook as well. So, and lately, I've noticed a very large increase of younger people asking me questions and my DMs on social media and sending me emails and things like that. And I've seen it really increased dramatically in the last year and a half or so. So if you're a parent and you're listening to

Starting point is 00:05:06 this episode, how do you get a teenager interested in personal finance or the fire movement or financial independence. It's a great question. I'll go back to your comments that was embedded in that question first about there being a slight drop-off in young people interested in investing in personal finance. And I think that has a lot to do with the fact that, you know, things like meme stocks and Robin Hood and crypto in the last year or so have kind of taken a downward trend, let's say. And those things were really grabbing the attention of lots of young people. I had conversations in my classroom almost every day about those topics. And they really, I think, were drawn to those types of things, like the get rich, quick investments type stuff. And so

Starting point is 00:05:48 those have tapered off. And I think so the interest has as well. So to get to the meat of your question, how do we get young people interested in personal finance or financial independence? You know, it's not something you can do like today. It's a series of conversations and mindset within, let's say a household or for me inside my classroom where if you're a parent and you have a young person in your house or maybe they're in college or college age, it's about having discussions with them from as early as starting today about money, about finances, about budgeting, about your household expenses. And it can start as early as when your kids are four, five, six, seven, giving them little challenges, giving them chores around the house, you know, paying them 50 cents

Starting point is 00:06:35 to empty the dishwasher. If you have a couple kids, make it a contest who can make the most money in the next week or the next month. And then when they're high school age, including them in the household financial decisions, including them in paying the monthly bills, have them click the mouse, get on the websites, transfer money, pay bills so that it's not a scary subject. It's not a taboo subject. And then from there, you can take money conversations to whole other levels of things like investing in financial independence, real estate, stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:07:09 I love that. And that is one of the biggest things for me now when you talked about starting early. I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old. So my kids are really young. But I've started with the four-year-old just talking about little things like assets and what assets are and how to utilize your money and stuff like that. And he's starting to understand already, which has been fantastic. And that's the plan is to kind of teach them and walk them through all the steps as they get older. And one thing I love that you do in the book is you start to talk through at the very beginning figuring out what your why is and what the why of financial independence is. And you have people list out a bunch of things that make them happy. And that's one of the main pillars of financial

Starting point is 00:07:43 independence is figuring out what makes you happy and how you can pursue that. So why is that so important to explain to people up front, especially young people? Yeah, I think to answer that question, I want to go back just a little bit to kind of talk about what my book is and who it's fours, right? So first to a million, my book published by Bigger Pockets. I'm super glad they were on board for that. I thank them every day. The book is about early financial independence. So it does fall under the umbrella of a personal finance book for young people, but it's kind of that AP level or next level information about, you know, okay, now how can we change some strategies so that you don't have to work until you're 65, although you absolutely can.

Starting point is 00:08:23 It's about having options. And so the young people who would actually read my book, they're not your everyday teenager or young person. It's someone who's really motivated. to maximize their financial future. And so if someone is going to decide, and my book is all about presenting options, I don't tell the reader what to do. I just say, there is more than one option of the one option of working until you're 65. And here's how you would get there. If the reader decided, yes, I do want to pursue early financial independence. I want to reach that milestone before 65, maybe in my 40s or 30s, even earlier perhaps. That is not easy, right? It's not what most people do. and there are some hard decisions around money that you'll have to make in the meantime to get there.

Starting point is 00:09:07 Now, I think the reward is worth it. But in the meantime, how do you keep someone motivated? And that's where the YFI comes in. So for that person, teen or otherwise, to stay motivated through the journey to early financial independence, you really do need to know what is your Wi-Fi? Why are you walking this pathway that most people would never venture down? For me, right, my Wi-Fi has changed over the last few years. I also have, or I have a one-year-old son.

Starting point is 00:09:35 And so my Wi-Fi now is, I want to spend as much time with my son as possible. Before he came along, it was, I want to spend more time with my friends and my family and doing the things that bring me happiness. That's my Wi-Fi. And so that goes to the happiness list. There's a chapter in the book that's all about Wi-Fi. And then there's another chapter that's just about happiness. The title is happiness.

Starting point is 00:09:56 And so I literally make the reader sit down with a pen and paper and write out the 10 things to bring them the most happiness. Because until you can define that and know what that looks like, it's really hard to stay motivated on your path to early financial independence because the goal is to have more time to do the things that make you happy. Thus, you will be happier. And isn't that, you know, kind of the point of life, I think, is to just be as happy as possible. That's exactly right. And you really have to know how to stay motivated over the course, because like you said, this is not an easy path for a lot of people. It's not something that's very easy to do, especially if you're trying to do it in 10, 15 years. It's one of those things that you really have to know that

Starting point is 00:10:35 why to stay motivated. And that's what I love about how you have us list out in the book, what makes you happy, because those are some of the things that center around. And it does develop over time as life changes, you know, you get married or you have kids or whatever else happens. That why may change and what makes you happy may change. But at the same time, we're all pursuing the same goal, which is more time so we can pursue those things, which is what I love about that as well. So you have something where you call people in the book who are interested in financial independence, FI. Freaks. And I love the, in a good way, and I love the way you talk about that. So it's really truly like a mindset thing. So what is the mindset you need to be an FI freak?

Starting point is 00:11:11 Yeah, so I actually pronounce it FI. But there is no right or wrong way, FI or FEEK. So a financial independence freak, you know, there is a different mindset. I work with lots of young people in the classroom and outside. I have an online community for young people interested in this stuff. I can tell you, it just really, it really comes down to mindset. And I would say like an entrepreneurial mindset, right? So a freak is someone who is motivated enough to read a book, listen to a podcast, make changes in their life, do things, you know, beyond the norm that their peers aren't doing so that they can attain the goal of early financial independence. And that is not your typical young person by any stretch. I would say it's a very small percentage. And so, you know, they are different. They're unique,

Starting point is 00:11:58 right, they're special. So I call them five freaks because they are different. And so they are the ones who would walk down this pathway. It is not for everybody and not every young person or adult should be pursuing early financial independence. But again, it's about educating and letting them know that that is an option, it's a very doable option, repeatable and proven that they should know about. Absolutely. And when I talk about a big motivator for people is I start talking about investing. And especially when I'm talking to young people, I talk about how much their money can compound over time. And I think it's really incredibly important for people to understand that. If you have small amounts of money with time, it can compound over time.

Starting point is 00:12:36 But one of the biggest pushbacks that I get, a lot of times when I talk about this is people say they don't want to wait 40 years. And we try to explain through it that you don't always have to wait 40 years. It depends on your savings rate. It depends on your assets you're investing in. There's a number of things that come into play. But do you see that pushback when you talk about investing to younger people? And do you see people wanting to get to that point a lot sooner than they? used to? Yeah, absolutely. And I think going back to the, you know, the comments we had about,

Starting point is 00:13:02 you know, Robin Hood and meme stocks and crypto and all that stuff is very much aligned with that. You know, we all want immediate satisfaction. We don't want delayed satisfaction. And if there was a way to get rich quick, I would be the first one on board. I mean, we all would. So talking to young people and, you know, trying to get them to realize that there is no fast track to financial independence. There is no easy way to get there. It's not a tough discussion to have, but it's sometimes tough for them to really grasp that and understand that. And they will kind of zone out. You know, my classroom in front, I'm talking about a lot of people who say, well, show a young person if they put away $50 a month or $10 a month for X period of years. And it's compounding

Starting point is 00:13:48 by being invested in the stock market. By the time you're 65, you're going to have a million dollars, which is absolutely true. And I think they should know that. But as the 17-year-old sits there and hears that, 65 is so, it's like it doesn't even, you know, register in their mind how far away that is because it's so far away. And so you kind of lose them at that point. So I'd rather show them, here's how you can become a millionaire in 10 years, right? It's not the normal pathway. It takes hard work.

Starting point is 00:14:15 It's not going to be easy. but there's a path to both, and you get to decide how hard you want to hammer these strategies. There's a spectrum of retiring, and I don't like the word retiring, but achieving financial independence very early in life versus 65 or even later, and you get to decide where on that spectrum you're going to land, where you're going to set your goal, and then you can work backwards from there and employ the appropriate strategies so that you can get to your goal, whatever that may be. And that, I think, is one of the biggest motivators, is your goal. and figuring out what that financial independence number is going to be.

Starting point is 00:14:49 That's one of my favorite things to do with people is walk them through those steps to show them, hey, here's how you get to this point. And once you save up enough money where you can get to this point, then you can be financially independent and do whatever you want with your time. So lately, I've been noticing how fast things are changing at home. The kids are growing like crazy. Clothes don't fit anymore and routines are changing. And it just hits you.

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Starting point is 00:17:51 I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. You have one of the best definitions, I think, of financial independence, because a lot of people forget about baking real estate into that number when they talk about traditional financial independence. And one of my favorite things that you talk about is your definition

Starting point is 00:18:21 of financial dependence is passive income plus sustainable asset withdrawal equals financial independence. So can you talk a little bit about this equation and how it works? Yeah, I love talking about this because I agree with you. I like my equation. It's not one that I found anywhere else. And it does, so it kind of combines two different worlds, right? The Choose FI community, which is an amazing community. and I love what they're doing over there. I've been on their podcast, I've talked to those guys. That community is very much about setting a FI number, saving and investing enough to get

Starting point is 00:18:52 to FI and then you're done. And many people in that community have successfully done that. But it really is about just stocking away as much money as you can into an index fund, usually, and then just waiting for it to grow. So it's big enough that you can stop working or have the option to stop working. But the other community that I'm also a very big fan of is the bigger podcast. pockets community, which is very much into real estate investing in passive income streams. And if you have enough passive income to cover your expenses, you can also say that you are now financially

Starting point is 00:19:22 independent. What the truth is is that most people are doing a combination of those two in some way. My wife and I are definitely two of those people. The equation that I developed in the book and that I talk about and go through at length is a combination. So it is passive income, which would be from things like real estate. It doesn't have to be real estate. Plus, your sustainable asset withdrawal, which means you're taking money out of an asset, such as a brokerage accounts, a 401k, IRA, whatever. And it's sustainable meaning it's going to last until you no longer need it, which is likely when you pass away. You know, those two together equal or are greater than your living expenses. And your living expenses absolutely should include surprise expenses that they're going to come up later in life.

Starting point is 00:20:08 And so that combines both worlds, I think, into a nice, easy to understand, I hope, equation where people can say, now I can decide, do I want to do 50-50? Do I want to do 80-20? Again, there's no right or wrong answer. The option is for each person to decide for themselves. And that's what I loved about it because I'm the same way. I'm a person who we invest in real estate and we invest in index funds, ETFs, a traditional route as well. And combining those two together, I think, is one of the most powerful things that you can do because you can draw from both. And a lot of people don't realize is once you add that real estate component in there, you can really get there faster. I mean, a lot of times, as long as you're buying the right assets and you get those cash flow going, that is one of the coolest things that you can do. What are some other assets that you can invest in outside of real estate? Yeah. And so quickly just to define, and I'm sure.

Starting point is 00:20:56 sure your listeners know this, but passive income isn't always, rarely is it 100% passive. I think an index fund is pretty much 100% passive or as close as you can get. Real estate is not passive, but it's not so time intensive that you compare it to a full-time W-2 job. I mean, it does require work. So there are different levels of passive, but the idea is that money's coming in without you trading your time for that money. So real estate is, I love real estate, and that's the best example I have. But I could also say, you know, especially for young people like owning a vending machine or potentially trying to own a car wash or a laundromat, writing an e-book and putting it out there or an online course where people are buying those things and going through them.

Starting point is 00:21:42 But you've done all the work up front. And now, you know, so you know my book, first two a million and the workbook that goes with it, those are passive income streams for me now. I don't have to write it every time someone buys one. And I do get a little bit of money whenever one is sold. stocks, especially dividend stocks are great passive income. Reets, real estate investment trusts that you can buy just very much like a stock are very passive. Simple as, you know, there are companies that will pay you to put a magnet on your car that advertises their business.

Starting point is 00:22:15 It's not going to be a ton of money, but it's very passive. You put the magnet on your car and you drive around and they give you a little bit of money. Or renting your car out on a site like Turo when you're not using it. to bring in some extra money. You have the car anyway. If you're not using it, let someone else pay you to use it. So there's a lot of different ways. Passive income is, I think, one of the best kept secrets is not the right term because it should not be a secret, but it's most people have no idea what passive income is. And most people will go through their life never earning a penny of passive income, which I think is really sad. I love all of those examples. And some of which, like we had an episode with Cody Sanchez on here where she was talking about

Starting point is 00:22:52 boring businesses. And that's where she's bought about 37 boring businesses. is since she started. So she's buying, you know, car washes, laundromats, vending machines is one of the things as well. So I love those examples as well because they really do cash flow really well. And you can add, you know, real estate and have a whole combination of some of these passive income sources as well. So that's what I absolutely love about that. So one thing you talk about in the book, and I think this is incredibly important to understand because, you know, I'm a huge rich dad, poor dad fan. And that was one of the first books that really got me into finance and real estate investing and all that stuff, is you talk about real assets versus false assets. And this is so

Starting point is 00:23:27 important to understand it in an early age, because a lot of people don't understand that there's certain things that really are not truly assets, even though they have somewhat of value. If they're depreciating, you know, there's an issue there. So can you talk a little bit about the difference between the two? Sure. And, you know, my definition comes directly from rich dad, poor dad, which is a great book. And I recommend it's all the young people I work with. Yeah. So a false asset is one to put it simply. A false asset is one that takes money out of your pocket and a real asset is one that puts money in your pocket. And obviously you want more real assets than false assets. False assets. I own some false assets. There's nothing wrong with it. You just need to understand why is it false. How does it affect your

Starting point is 00:24:07 bottom line? And are you okay with the money that is taking from your pocket? I agree. It's fine to own those false assets. Just one of those things that over time, you just want to have more real assets than you do those false assets. So are there any things out there that people think maybe are real assets, but they're actually false assets? Yeah. People who've never had this, you know, the real versus false assets explained to them or they've never thought about it. Oftentimes we consider their car as a real asset because you can sell your car. And right now you can sell a used car for a pretty good price. My wife and I were thinking about actually selling one of our cars.

Starting point is 00:24:42 We just had that discussion today. You can get a pretty good price for it. And the reason we are considering selling one of our cars is because we know a car is a false asset. And so every day that you own it, it takes money from you. It does not put money into your pocket because you are paying not just for gas. You're paying for upkeep and maintenance and repairs and registration and insurance and depreciation. Once you do sell that, you know, the car has lost value over time. Although in a weird economy like we have right now, you know, in the last couple of years,

Starting point is 00:25:15 maybe used cars have actually appreciated, but that's very much not the norm. And so it costs a lot of money just to have a car, even if you never drive it, just to have a parking your garage. It's very expensive. So that's a false asset that most people. You know, I just had a conversation with a coworker yesterday about a primary residence. And is that, because you were talking about paying a mortgage off on a primary residence. And I said, well, you know, there's no right answer here.

Starting point is 00:25:39 But I never want to have my primary residence paid off because it is a false asset. is taking money from me. So I want to have it leveraged. I want to have it financed so that the money that that money I can invest, and I'm hoping that money makes me, you know, a return that helps to offset the fact that my primary residence is a false asset. This is a true story. Today, we had a guy in our house. We had a big storm here the other day, rained like crazy and the wind was blowing the rain sideways. And a lot of our windows were leaking. It was crazy. And our house isn't that old. So we had a guy come in and give us an estimate on how much would it cost to replace the windows in our house. And I think because of supply chain and staffing issues, the quote came out to $99,000 to replace the windows in our house.

Starting point is 00:26:29 I mean, if that isn't an example of the fact that a house is a false asset, I don't know what is. I mean, you could buy a house for $100,000. And, you know, he threw on some discounts and eventually it came down to $75. grant, but that's still a ton of money. And I don't think we're going to do it. We're going to shop around for some better, hopefully better quotes. But yeah, owning a house costs a lot of money, paying some money for the yard or the tools to manage the yard yourself, snow removal, and just things that go wrong with the house. It does cost money. Replacing the roof every 10 years, 15 years, etc., etc. There's so many things. I completely agree. And we had an episode about buying versus renting. And we went through these

Starting point is 00:27:11 calculations on owning a house. And I've always owned a house. I'm a homeowner as well. And it's one of those things that when you actually go through the process, owning a house, if you look at the actual returns, obviously as of late, home prices have skyrocketed. But if you look at the actual returns over the course of a long period of time, it's about the same returns as just keeping cash in a regular old savings account. I mean, there are measly returns in terms of owning that. So if your primary residence is your only asset, you want to start making moves so that you can start buying actual real assets to grow your wealth over time. And one of the big things that you talk about in your book, and I love the way you lay this out for young people. This is one of my favorite parts of your book

Starting point is 00:27:47 is earning an income is obviously one of the biggest parts of the equation when it comes to financial independence. We talk about it all the time here is if you can increase your income over time and grow your income, you can really, really accelerate your path to financial independence. And you talk about getting a job as a young person, maybe in high school or starting off in college. And the way you recommend getting a job is something I absolutely love. And I wish I did this same thing when I was in high school and college. So can you talk a little bit about how high schoolers or college students should look at getting their first job? Yeah, I think you're referring to, you know, like a part-time job to kind of get into the business rather than a job after

Starting point is 00:28:22 college is what you're going for. Yeah. So a lot of the young people I work with, you know, they are interested in real estate investing or other forms of passive income, which is amazing because they're so young. And so they'll often ask me, you know, what should I do? How do I get into real estate? how do I get my foot in the door? And, you know, I highly recommend that they do have a part-time job or at least a job in the summer when they're not in school full-time to help accelerate their journey towards early five like you mentioned because one of the levers is to earn more money. And so I recommend, you know, if you are interested in real estate investing, go out and get a job that's related to real estate that's in the industry. So you could, I've told many, I've told so

Starting point is 00:29:00 many, you know, just go to Google Maps and find the nearest property management company or the nearest real estate agent brokerage office close to your house, put some nice clothes on, dress up, you know, walk in the door and tell them about yourself, tell them why you want to work there. And it might take two or three visits. And if it comes down to it, even volunteer. See, I just want to work here for a while. I don't want to get paid. I just want to, you know, do the things you don't want to do. I'll answer phone calls, make calls, file papers. I'll take out the trash, but I just want to be involved. And then once you're in the door and they see that you're motivated,

Starting point is 00:29:36 you're dependable and you're hardworking, they probably will find a way to pay you. But now you have connections. Now you have people you can ask questions to that are going to respond with some thought behind a question because they have a relationship with you. And they want, you know, when people see young people who are super motivated, they can't help but want to see them succeed. The young people in my community find that all the time.

Starting point is 00:29:58 They just have to put themselves out there. and when people find out how young they are and motivated to do this kind of stuff, people are tripping over themselves to help that young person succeed. And so, yeah, it could be working for a contractor. It could be working for a mortgage lender. It could be working for an appraiser. So many different ways to just kind of get your foot in the door as far as real estate goes. And I love that idea.

Starting point is 00:30:22 It's one of those things. Even specifically to continue on the real estate example, if you went and worked at a brokerage, you could see how deals come together. You could see how people think about properties when they buy properties. You can see how the financing works, all those things that happen where a lot of people aren't exposed to that until they become an adult and buy their first house. So there's a lot of things happening there where you can really set yourself up to be 10 steps ahead of a lot of people that are within the same age range as you, which I absolutely love.

Starting point is 00:30:47 One thing that you touch on your book, and it's also amazing the way that you kind of think through this because a lot of people don't talk about this enough. And it's your approach to how young people should consider college. If somebody was thinking about going to college and they came to you and were asking, you know, what should I do? Should I go to college or should I not go to college? What kind of questions would you ask them? And then, you know, who are the types of people that maybe should go to college and who maybe

Starting point is 00:31:09 should not go to college? Yeah, this is a big, a big question, right? And I get those questions very, very often from the young people I work with. And my students, honestly, that I have in the classroom. In the book, there's two chapters about college. And they were by far the hardest ones to write because there is no, perfect answer. And everyone's situation is different. And honestly, college or getting that degree is a very personal and sometimes emotional decision for that student or that family. You know, I give them information.

Starting point is 00:31:41 And again, it's up to them to make their own choice. I won't tell them they should or shouldn't go. But a lot of the young people I work with who are interested in real estate are starting to do some fantastic things. And many of them have opted out of the college route or were in college and stopped going. Now, I'm not saying that's the right choice, but for them, and I would say for all of them, it's actually working out okay right now. And here's the bottom line, you can always go back to college. You can always do college in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s or later. And so it's not like it's now or never. But, you know, if I have a young person who has always wanted to be, you know, fill in the blank, teacher, doctor, nurse, an accountant, whatever it might be. And that is what they really

Starting point is 00:32:25 want to do for the foreseeable future, then by all means, yes, go to college. Just do it in a smart way. So you're not racking up a lot of student loan debt. You're not wasting years of your life and then decide after you leave college that you don't like it or you now want to do something completely different so your degree isn't valuable. So you have to give it a lot of thought, which is a big ask for young people, but it's the right ask. We need to have them think about those decisions. And I love that. So is there any type of person that you've ever talked to where you think? I know you just give them information, but is there a type of person maybe if someone wants to go in a different type of field where maybe they shouldn't go to college? Is there situations where you've seen that

Starting point is 00:33:02 probably somebody shouldn't? Because the real big issue here, the thing that we talk about a lot is, you know, student debt is rising like crazy. And, you know, as you see that, that can really put you back in your life. And I think I've heard you talk about that you had student loan debt that that you were working through and stuff as well when you were younger. And I think that's one of the things that is one of the most daunting tasks for people as they graduate. So if you can avoid that or find lower cost ways to go to college. Is there any lower cost ways that you can think of that people should consider when they consider college? Yeah, there's so many. And I talk about many of them in my book, right? I mean, the go-to is community college for a year or two before a bigger four-year school.

Starting point is 00:33:40 But beyond that, you know, online school is something that's growing really fast. The pandemic, you know, turbocharged, the movement for people learning remotely or online or at home. So you can get a degree without ever stepping. into a classroom, doing things like going part-time while you're working full-time for a year or two or for the whole thing, you know, making the decision to go to a school where you can commute and still live at home with parents. So you're saving on room and board. That's a huge chunk of the overall pie that is college expenses. Being, you know, obsessed with applying for as many scholarships and grants as possible when you're, you know, applying to college and not stopping.

Starting point is 00:34:19 You know, I think a lot of students, they apply for a ton of scholarships for their friends. year and then they stop, but you still have three more years left or more. And so continue to apply for scholarships and seek those out sophomore, junior, senior year because there are plenty out there that will pay for, you know, more than just the first year of school. I agree. And that's one thing I wish I did before I went to college was I just continually applied for scholarships. Because I think you can make that almost like a part-time job because you're saving so much money over that time frame that if you continue to do that, you're saving thousands and thousands of dollars, the ROI or the, you know, being paid by the hour, if you break that down, it's going

Starting point is 00:34:55 to be significant if you continue to do that. I know it takes time and it's frustrating sometimes when you don't get them, but at the same time, it's definitely worth it overall. So, Dan, I want to shift gears because I want to talk about some questions that we ask a lot of our guests. And so I want to ask a couple of them here. So what is, besides your book, what is some of the best books that you have read recently? And this could be about real estate. It can be about investing. It can be about personal finance, anything along those lines. Well, I'd like to start by recommending a couple books that I almost always recommend. And that is Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and My Personal Favorite, The Richest Man in Babylon.

Starting point is 00:35:27 Those are ones that I think young people can read and get a lot out of. They're not too high level. But as far as recent reads, I read Vivid Vision. Recently, it's a short read, and it's more about building an organization. And I do have an online community that I'm really passionate about that I'm trying to build. And that is growing. So that was one of the more recent reads. And we'll link all of those up down below and check this.

Starting point is 00:35:51 Those are all great books. And I've read all those as well. They're fantastic. So we'll link all those up down below as well. And then, Dan, what part of your work makes you come alive? Pretty much everything, right? I mean, I love teaching high school classes. I've made a transition now where I'm teaching hybrid instead of in classroom every day,

Starting point is 00:36:11 but still amazing. I'm still teaching the elective business classes. And then my community that I'm building called Sheik Streaks that's specifically for young people, Gen Z, like to say 15 to 25, that are highly interested and motivated in early financial independence and everything that falls under that umbrella. That gets me out of bed in the morning. You know, continuing to build that. We have an app now and I'm always working on upgrades and updates to the app, trying to make it better and more engaging, great resources in there. So, and it's, you know, it's my way of giving back. I love obviously helping young people hopefully achieve their best.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And I think managing money in an intelligent way is one of the most important pieces to getting there. I love that. And you have probably one of the most rewarding jobs out there where you get to teach and have personal finance mixed together, which I think is absolutely amazing. So we're going to go a little deeper here, Dan. So what do you want people to remember about you? Yeah. Like when I'm gone, I think, you know, I want them to remember that someone who is passionate about helping others. I'm dedicated my career to doing just that, but also someone who really loved his family and was, you know, just focused on doing everything he could to help his family achieve. And part of my journey to financial independence now allows me to work part-time. My wife retired two years ago. She does manage a lot of our real estate. So she's still working, but we're at home a lot now. And we're not working 60 hours a week now. And, you know, what a blessing that is since,

Starting point is 00:37:43 we have a son now and maybe another kid in the near future, you know, if that's the plan for us. So well worth all the effort. I absolutely love that. And obviously, you know, kids can change your life and your outlook on a lot of things. So that is absolutely amazing. And this is my favorite question to ask people because every single person has, you know, different answers when we ask this question. And it's really interesting. A lot of people love when we ask this question.

Starting point is 00:38:06 So what does wealth mean to you? That is a good question. For me, it means I would, I think comes down to two things. time and happiness. You know, having the time to do the things that make you happy, which is kind of where our conversation started. I now have more time because of working part-time and working from home, you know, mostly to do more things that make me happy. Go for a walk with my son, take him to the park, spend time with my wife, read a book, help grow the Sheiks Frick's Community, help people online that are posting questions and forums and social media. Those things bring me joy and they're very,

Starting point is 00:38:41 it makes you feel good. And so, yeah, for me, that I feel like I'm very, very wealthy. And I would say it has some to do with money, but that's just a small piece of it. Exactly. It truly is. And really, your book teaches people how to figure out that same thing of how they get more time and how they figure out what makes them happy so that they can spend time doing what makes them happy, which is really incredible. So, Dan, where can people find out more about you and your book and the workbook as well? Yeah, so the book, you can find it. First, a million on the Bigger Pockets website. They're the publisher, but it's available everywhere else that you want to find a book,

Starting point is 00:39:17 audio, digital, and hard copy. The workbook is an amazing tool also. If you have a teenager in your life, get them both and you will change their life. Otherwise, if people want to email me, Dan at Sheeksfreaks.com. My community website is Sheiksfreaks.com, which you can link in your notes. On that website, people can find a link to learn more about the community and to join the community if they so wish. But again, the community is just for young people 15 to 25.

Starting point is 00:39:45 It's very niche, but it's just for them to connect with other people who are like them. Fantastic. We will link all of those links down below in the show notes as well. Dan, thank you so much. This was an incredible conversation. I'm so glad we got to have you on. Thanks for having me. I love being here and keep doing what you're doing, man.

Starting point is 00:40:00 Keep crushing it. This is awesome. Absolutely. Thank you.

The Personal Finance Podcast - How To Teach Your Teenager About Financial Independence With Dan Sheeks

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