The Personal Finance Podcast - Index Funds VS. ETFs | Which One Is a Better Investment? (THE GREAT SHOWDOWN!)

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Starting point is 00:00:56 Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. On this episode of the personal finance podcast, we're going to talk about the differences between index funds versus ETFs. What's up, everybody, and welcome to the personal finance podcast. I'm your host and founder of Master Money. And today, we're going to be talking about index funds versus ETFs. If you have any questions about this episode, hit me up on Instagram at Master Money Co. That's Master Money, Master Money CEO and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever podcast player you love listening to this podcast too. And if you want to help out the show, leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

Starting point is 00:01:59 And also make sure you go check out our new YouTube channel, Master Money. We're putting out two videos a week right now on the YouTube channel, and we're putting out different content from the podcast. So a lot of it is new content, stuff we don't talk about on the podcast, is going up on the YouTube channel. so make sure you check that out as well. So welcome to the show. Welcome to the showdown of index funds versus ETFs.

Starting point is 00:02:24 This is a question that I get all the time. And you know your boy loves his index funds and his ETS. I think they're both fantastic investments. And it doesn't matter what you have them. And you can have them in a Roth IRA. You can have them in a 401K. You can have them a taxable brokerage. You can have them in a 529 plan.

Starting point is 00:02:42 You can have them in HSA and everything else. He loves them in everything. He loves a piece of index funds or ETFs in everything. And today what we're going to talk about is we're going to talk about the key differences and the similarities between index funds and ETFs. And we're also going to talk about mutual funds as well because mutual funds are compared to these in a lot of situations. Now, if you haven't heard the episode where we talk about index funds, it's called

Starting point is 00:03:06 Index Funds Are King. And I'll link it up in the show notes below. But if you haven't heard that episode yet, that goes through. why I love index funds and why I choose index funds over mutual funds. And there's a number of reasons why, but the major impact is going to be fees. And we'll get into that in a little bit. Because the difference between mutual funds and index funds and ETFs is that mutual funds fees are just eating into your return significantly.

Starting point is 00:03:33 And even a 1% fee can amount to over six figures. And sometimes depending on how much you're investing, it can amount to over a million dollars in your portfolio. So if you're a big saver, what you don't want to do is just give your money away to someone who's giving you less than subpar returns, which is normally the situation when it comes to mutual funds. We'll talk about that here in a second. Now, the differences between index funds and ETFs are somewhat minor, but there are some key differences that will go through today.

Starting point is 00:04:04 But for the most part, they have similar returns. So you can typically get the same outcome with either or because they're so similar in terms of how they structure their investments. See, I invest in both. I invest in index funds and ETFs for a number of different reasons. And I love to invest in both categories. The reason why is because you can build tremendous generational wealth with index funds and ETFs. This is the reason why Warren Buffett puts his entire family's money into index funds.

Starting point is 00:04:33 Because what he says is index funds are the best for people who are not professional investors. Why? Because you can buy a basket of stocks and get your returns for a long period of time. Whenever you hear me talk about historical returns of 8 to 10%, this is what I'm talking about. I'm talking about investing in index funds in ETFs, especially if you're buying an S&P 500 fund or a total stock market fund, that's the returns that you can expect. And even on our new YouTube videos, I have a number of videos talking about if you invest $300 a month,

Starting point is 00:05:01 how fast can you become a millionaire? And that's based on 8% returns. I have another one talking about why small amounts of money can turn into a million dollars. And that's the same basis. these videos are using the same basis of ETFs and index funds. That's what we're talking about when you're investing in, because you're investing in the market. If you don't know what a mutual fund is,

Starting point is 00:05:22 if you don't know what an index fund is, if you don't know what an ETF is, we'll hit those parts first, just so you have an understanding of what the differential is between all of them. So mutual funds, I'm not going to dive too deep in there because the thing about a mutual fund is I wouldn't go that route

Starting point is 00:05:36 if you're going between mutual funds and index funds. Reason being is over the long period of time, over the historically 30, 40, 50 years, index funds and ETFs always beat out mutual funds. Why? Mutual funds can have fantastic runs for short periods of time. And mutual funds are actually actively managed by an actual manager who has a team of people managing the mutual funds. So some of the best mutual funds right now, for example, are like Arc Invest.

Starting point is 00:06:03 Kathy Wood, who is one of the best investors right now, she has one of the best mutual funds out there. It's called Arc Invest is her company. She has a number of different actively managed ETFs as well. But actively managed funds have a fund manager who's usually high profile, like Kathy Wood is very high profile, who takes a large fee to manage your money. So those fees, specifically between like 1% to 2% can absolutely kill you. Because even if you're looking at a 1% fee, you're still spending 10 grand a year if you have

Starting point is 00:06:35 a million bucks invested. And the higher that fee goes, over time, you think about how much that is compounded over time. Say for 30 years, $800 a month, you know what that compounds to. It's over a million dollars. So that is why these fees will kill you because you're going to be spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars on fees. And we talk about that in the index fund episode as well. So actively manage mutual funds typically have 40 to 100 stocks somewhere in that range. They buy up companies individually.

Starting point is 00:07:02 They're actively buying and selling and doing all of these things. so you're paying people to do that. That's what a mutual fund is. Now, you can get great returns for a couple of years. Absolutely, especially with a hot stock picker. You can have great returns for 10 years if you need to. But over the long term, historically over 30, 40, 50 years, index funds and ETFs always wins.

Starting point is 00:07:22 There have been study after study after study done. Now let's look at what index funds are. So index funds are actually a type of mutual fund, but it's a portfolio constructed to mirror an index. Typically it'd be different financial markets. You can look at things like the S&P 500 is my favorite one to use because that's my favorite one to actually invest in. And an S&P 500 fund is just 500 of the largest companies out there. So you can think of things like Tesla.

Starting point is 00:07:47 You can think of Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Johnson & Johnson, Google. All of these companies are within the S&P 500. So you're buying a basket of stocks within the S&P 500. So the difference is you could go out and pick stocks yourself, absolutely. But here's an example of that. Let's say, for example, that you have a jar of M&Ms, and each M&M represents a different stock. So you could try to go out there and pick the right M&M that's going to make money for you,

Starting point is 00:08:19 or you could just buy the whole jar. And when you're buying an index fund, you're just buying the whole jar of M&Ms. You're just buying a basket of stocks. You're buying all the stocks that you would want that you can think of. It's all popular companies. things even beyond the tech companies there's Disney there's 3M it's every single thing that you would be interested in Walmart Target all of these different companies that you utilize every single day and that's the amazing thing about buying something like an index fund or an ETF because you're

Starting point is 00:08:45 buying that basket of stocks like that so an index fund gives you broad market exposure so you're exposed to all these companies you're diversified across all of these companies so say if one company has a problem like for example back in the day when Target had that credit card scheme where a bunch of credit card numbers were stolen, Target stock tanked for a short period of time. Now, it's gone way up since then. That would have been a great time to buy. But at that time, target stock started to tank. So when you have your investments spread out like this, one company can struggle, but the others bring it up. So you're looking at a situation where you're well diversified. At the same time, index funds have a low operating expense. Some of my favorite

Starting point is 00:09:25 index funds have 0.03%. That is significantly lower than 1 to 2% of actively managed mutual funds. And when you're in an SEP 500 index fund or you're in a total stock market index fund, it's just mirroring an index. So there's very, very low portfolio turnover. So there doesn't have to be people actively managing it. It's just mirroring what the index does. It's just mirroring what the stock market does. You don't have to buy stocks and stealth stocks back and forth all day long. They don't have to do that because they're just following the market. That's all they're doing. And when you look at the market and you think about the market, we talk about this all the time. Take your phone out. Look at a stock market chart. Look at it for as long as you possibly can.

Starting point is 00:10:05 The longest time horizon you possibly can. And what direction is that market going? It goes up. Now ebbs and flows day in and day out. It's going to ebb and flow. It's going to go up and down. If you're new to investing and the market goes down one day and you're losing some money, do not panic because you have to think about this long term. We're in this game for the long haul. Wealth building is a long-term game. You don't get rich quick in this game. If you want to build real wealth, wealth building is a long game. So if you're trying to come in here and make a quick buck, it's not going to happen, my friends, not here. But if you want to do something where you're going to build generational wealth and you can build a portfolio of millions of dollars over the course of

Starting point is 00:10:46 30, 40, 50 years, if you're just investing small amounts of money every single month, then we got the gravy for you. So that's how this works. And the key takeaways, to understand an index fund. Is this just a portfolio of stocks or bonds designed to mimic a financial index? They have lower expense ratios. It's a passive investment strategy. So lazy investors can just automatically transfer money in there and not have to worry. You don't have to watch your stocks or anything like that.

Starting point is 00:11:11 And they seek to match the risk of the market. So if you look at the market long term, you can see what the risk is. It goes in one direction. It ebbs and flows, but it goes up over time. Now, let's look at what an ETF is. an ETF stands for exchange traded fund and it does the same thing it tracks an index or a sector or a commodity or any other assets and the cool thing about ETFs is there a lot of them and there's a lot of different markets that you can track from dividend stocks to gold to precious metals there's ETFs for everything out there now and an ETF can be structured to track just about literally anything and it even can be used to track specific investment strategies so if you like to be a growth investor there's growth. If you like international exposure, there's international ETFs. If you like exposure into emerging markets, there's emerging market ETFs.

Starting point is 00:12:00 And the same thing goes for index funds, but ETFs have even more options out there nowadays. But the key takeaway for an ETF is the way that it trades is a little bit different than an index fund. And we'll get deeper into this as we go through, but it trades just like a stock does. And ETF share prices can fluctuate all day up and down ebbs and flows, whereas index funds just have one price per day. And as the day closes, then the price changes. And then ETFs contain all types of investments, and they have low expense ratios as well. So index funds and ETFs are very similar in the way that they are structured. They're very similar in the way that they are put together.

Starting point is 00:12:38 That is why you're going to get very similar returns because they're investing and almost mirroring the same company, especially if they're mirroring an index. Now, if you get into commodity ETFs or you get into ETFs with specific investment strategies, that's a different story. They may have different companies within those strategies because different companies who create these ETFs select different stocks. But if you're just mirroring the index,

Starting point is 00:12:59 which is what we talk about all the time on this podcast is mirroring indexes, that is the one where it's going to be very similar to index funds. ETFs and index funds are going to be very similar. So without further ado, let's go through the similarities of index funds and ETFs. I remember when I needed to hire someone fast, but finding the right person quickly felt impossible.

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Starting point is 00:16:23 So index funds and ETFs have a lot of similarities. They're very similar in the way that they structure their investment. And both are classified as actually indexing. They're both classified as just mirroring in a market. So you're buying a market typically when you're buying an index funds or an ETF. So here's the main similarities. And these are really the keys when it comes to investing. The first one is, like we just talked about, diversification. So when you're buying these companies, you're buying the basket of stocks. So being well diversified is important in a lot of situations. Unless you're willing to look into companies and understand what you're buying and really understand the company, then diversification is not needed as much as somebody who's not willing to

Starting point is 00:17:06 dig into companies and look at companies all day long. So if you're someone like Manesh Prabai, who's one of the best investors out there right now, he owns three. He owns three. four companies, and that's it. And what he does is he really digs deep into financial statements, into balance sheets, into all of these different aspects. They call him the next Warren Buffett. But he does this because that's all he's looking at all day long, where someone like us who has to go to work every day, you have a job, you have to look through, you're working on your side hustles, you're working on increasing your income, then diversification is more important for you because you don't have the time to just dig in all day long and look at different financial

Starting point is 00:17:42 reports because typically when you're doing that, you need to be reading all day long. So instead, just buying an index, just buying the market. If you're not professionally doing this, is a much better strategy. You're going to get to a 7, 8, 9, 10% return over time. In addition, you're going to beat out professional fund managers. 90% of professional fund managers per year get beat out by the index. And that group of the 10% that beat out the index is not the same every single year. So you can see the power of just investing in index funds.

Starting point is 00:18:11 you're going to win. You're going to come out on top, specifically if you're investing in the stock market. Now, we can talk about other assets like real estate or we can talk about other assets like buying businesses and those are just totally different situations. But when you're investing in the stock market, looking at a diversified portfolio of index funds or ETFs is a fantastic option and I would do more research in it if you haven't looked into it before. The second similarity that they have between index funds and ETFs is they both have low costs. And like I've talked about a million times, costs will absolutely kill you. Just think about it this way for a second. Every million dollars, you're going to spend $10,000 a year with a 1% fee. That $10,000 a year compounded over 30 years is $300,000.

Starting point is 00:18:54 But imagine you got that $300,000 with an 8% return. That money is going to be well over a million dollars. This is why a 1% fee can cost you over a million dollars. And this is why even if you have $100,000 starting off, you build your portfolio up, you work hard, you have $100,000, well, that's $1,000. dollars a year over the course of time 30 years let's say you didn't put any more money into that that's say 30 grand even 30 grand growth over time is going to be very significant when you're getting an 8 to 10% return so losing out on that money is extremely extremely impactful so you want

Starting point is 00:19:29 to make sure you keep investment fees low this is so important for your long term growth so keeping those investment fees low is extremely important if you want to become a successful investor and then And the third one is that they have strong long-term returns. ETFs and index funds both have that average rate that we keep talking about, 7 to 10%. Because they're mirroring a market, they're mirroring an index, specifically the ones that are within an index. Now, you can't go out and buy some random ETF that nobody's heard of. What we're talking about specifically here is the ones that mirror things like the S&P 500,

Starting point is 00:20:02 the NASDAQ, the total stock market. All of those types of index funds typically have great returns, strong returns long term. Now, if you want to look up a specific ETF or index fund, a great website to utilize is morningstar.com. And you can type in the ticker symbol for that index fund or that ETF, and it'll give a rating on there for you. You can see the historical performance and stuff like that. I use Morningstar all the time. You can also do it on Yahoo Finance as well. But both of these are great places to look.

Starting point is 00:20:29 But Morningstar really focuses on mutual funds, index funds, things like that. So it's a great place to look these up so you can do your own research and make sure it's something you're interested in. That's the major similarities between the two. But one of the bigger questions is, what the heck are the differences between an index fund and an ETF? Well, let's talk about it right now. So let's talk about the differences between index funds and ETFs. Now, there's probably, there's a number of differences.

Starting point is 00:20:56 There's like 20 differences between index funds and ETFs. I'm just going to talk about the important ones because I don't want to bore you guys at death with minor differences between the two because the returns come out the same. And all we really care about is the outcome of our investment. So here's the key differences. The first one and the biggest one is the way that index funds and ETFs are bought and sold. So the biggest difference is that an ETF trades intraday all day long like a stock would. So you can think of companies like Apple.

Starting point is 00:21:23 Let's say you bought a share of Apple. You could buy and sell Apple all day long. The same thing is with an ETF. They trade just like a stock does. Whereas an index fund trades like a mutual fund. So what that means is at the end of each day is when your index. fund is bought or sold. So you can be selling an index fund, say, in the middle of the day, but it's not going to sell right away. It's going to sell at the end of a trading day. And that's how

Starting point is 00:21:46 the price is set as well. The price of an index fund is set at the end of each trading day. So if you're a long-term investor, this is almost of no concern to you. Because if you're in this thing for the long haul, you're in this thing forever, for example, then buying and selling at noon or buying and selling at 4 p.m. doesn't really matter to you. Because the time of day that you can trade, it just doesn't matter. If you're someone like a day trader, which I don't see why somebody would day trade an ETF, but if you're a day trader and you're looking at this and saying, I want to get in and out, then an ETF is probably the best option for you. But if you're someone who's in this thing for the long haul and you just want to buy and sell and Ebenflow and you want to retire on this money,

Starting point is 00:22:24 then either one is a great option. Because index funds and ETFs are here for the long term investors. That's what they're really there for. Because holding on to these for a long period of time is how you get your return and how you allow compounding just start working for you so that once it's large enough and your snowball grows large enough, you don't have to work anymore. That's how you do this, is buying this long term. Number two, and this is a major difference for most of us. This is the one that may be the indicator on which one you're going to buy is the minimum

Starting point is 00:22:55 investment requirement. So if you're new to investing, maybe you want to just test out the waters and say, hey, I want to see how my emotions react to investing. I also want to just see how this does because I'm not comfortable putting in thousands of dollars into an index fund when I really don't know what happens with this yet. I've never invested before.

Starting point is 00:23:12 So the key to this is that ETFs typically have a lower minimum investment required. So a lot of times you can buy an ETF for $200, whereas an index fund a lot of times we'll have a minimum requirement of say $1,000 to $3,000. Now, nowadays there's new index funds coming out that really don't have a minimum requirement. so that's starting to go away, and I think in the future it will go away.

Starting point is 00:23:35 But like a lot of the big Vanguard index funds, for example, which are some that I love, the Vanguard index funds have minimum requirements. But Vanguard also has ETFs like VTI and VO or two of my favorites that I buy all the time. And those have lower prices to get in, 200 bucks, 300 bucks, somewhere in that range. Sometimes they're 150, depending on which one you're looking at. So if you only have a small amount that you want to invest, then an ETF is probably the better option for you. you're going to get similar returns.

Starting point is 00:24:04 And if you have a small amount to invest, that's a great way to test the waters as well. Now, if you have a large amount to invest, you can go either route. I like index funds because that's what I'm comfortable with. That's what I started with. So for me, just going into index funds, putting in a large lump sum into those is going to be something that's very, very beneficial for you if you have a large lump sum to start investing with. The third difference is the capital gains taxes you'll pay.

Starting point is 00:24:28 So ETFs are actually more tax efficient than index funds by, nature based on the way that they're structured. So if you sell an ETF, you're typically selling it to another investor who's buying it and the cash is coming directly to them. So the capital gains, taxes on a sale of an ETF are yours and yours alone to pay. But to get the cash out of an index fund, you technically have to redeem it from a fund manager who will then sell the securities to generate the cash to pay to you. So when this sale is for a gain, the net gains are typically passed down to every investors with share in this fund. That's a big difference as well. because an ETF is more tax efficient in the long run,

Starting point is 00:25:06 because it's the same tax efficiency as a stock. They trade like a stock. You can just think of a mirroring like a stock, whereas the tax efficiency of an index fund is a little bit different. And what we're going to do is we're going to do a YouTube video on tax differentials between ETFs and index funds, so we can do a deeper dive into that

Starting point is 00:25:22 to get a better understanding and utilize some examples as well. And we'll see who would come out on top if you invested in both, and they had the same rate of return based on the tax different because I think, that would be a very interesting thing to look at. And then the last one, the fourth difference is the cost of owning them. So both ETFs and index funds can be very cheap from an expense ratio perspective.

Starting point is 00:25:44 For example, Schwab's broad market ETF and Vanguard's S&P 500 ETF, both have expense ratios of 0.03%. So that means you'll just pay 30 cents every thousand dollars you have invested. But one thing you want to look into is trading commissions. If you're buying stocks in and out, you're buying a lot of ETS and things like that, make sure that you don't have trading commissions because there's so many brokerages out there now that don't charge you for buying into their funds. And specifically, a lot of them now like Vanguard, for example, if you're buying their funds,

Starting point is 00:26:16 they don't charge you. Fidelity doesn't have any trading commissions anymore. And Robin Hood kind of pioneered this where a lot of people are competing together now. So there should not be any transaction fees with your brokerages on this because you want to make sure you remove those because that's just unnecessary expenses that you don't have to be paying. But in the end, between index funds and ETFs, they're both amazing low-cost options compared,

Starting point is 00:26:37 and they're way better, in my opinion, than actively managed funds. I mean, you can do your research to look at that, but to me, they are way better than actively managed funds. So let's summarize this. The difference between mutual funds, index funds, and ETFs.

Starting point is 00:26:52 Mutual funds are grouped together of like 40 to 100 stocks, and they're managed by a professional fund manager. And this professional fund manager typically has a 1 to 2% fee charge based on investment fees. And those things will slowly eat away at your investment rate. A 1 to 2% fee does not sound like a lot, but it truly is. And if you haven't heard the episode where we talk about why fees matter, I'll leave a link to it in the show notes as well.

Starting point is 00:27:18 Whereas an index fund has no professional fund manager, and it's simply constructed to match an index. And they have extremely low expense ratios, but they generally have minimum investment fees. and they can only be traded once per day. Whereas an ETF, you can buy and sell an ETF just like a stock, and they also have extremely low expense ratios, and generally no minimum investment fee.

Starting point is 00:27:41 So if you don't have a lot of money to invest, start with ETFs. If you do have a lot of money to invest, I would look into index funds. Research which one you like more, but between the two, that's the way I would look at it is how much money do you have to invest? So in my opinion, index funds and ETFs trump mutual funds. So that's the major differences. That's the major differences that truly matter to you guys. The difference between an index fund and ETF truly bakes down to how much money do you have

Starting point is 00:28:08 and what's your preference in term of trading. That's the biggest two differences. Now there's a bunch of different minor differences as well and we're going to dive into the tax differential so that you guys can get a better idea of what the tax implications are. Now if you're wondering which ETF and index fund to invest in, you can listen to our index funds episode where I go through some of my favorite index funds. We also released a new video on YouTube of our five favorite ETFs, and you can also look on the Instagram page as well,

Starting point is 00:28:35 because we always have posts about our favorite index funds in ETFs. And if you have any questions about this episode, hit us up on Instagram as well, at Master Money Co. And follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or whatever podcast player you love listening to this podcast. And if you want to help out the show, leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast. Thank you, so much for all of you guys who have been leaving five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts. What that does is it helps the show get more exposure, and it helps more people learn how to build generational wealth for their family because anybody in this world can build generational wealth.

Starting point is 00:29:10 And we're trying to help as many people as possible build generational wealth. Because small amounts of money over time invested will amount to large amounts of money. And we talk about this all the time. So if you're interested in that, make sure you're following this podcast. check out the YouTube channel as well, and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you guys so much for listening. And if this is your first time listening, consider subscribing so you never miss an episode. And share this episode with a friend.

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The Personal Finance Podcast - Index Funds VS. ETFs | Which One Is a Better Investment? (THE GREAT SHOWDOWN!)

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