The Personal Finance Podcast - Is NOW THE RIGHT TIME to Buy a House?! - Money Q&A

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Starting point is 00:00:52 Learn more at tellus.com slash online security. No one can prevent all cybercrime or identity theft. Conditions apply. On this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast is now the right time to buy a house on this money Q&A. What's popping, everybody, and welcome to the personal finance podcast. I'm your host, Andrew founder of MasterMoney.com. And today on the Personal Finance Podcast, we're going to be going through three of your

Starting point is 00:01:37 questions on this money Q&A. If you guys have a question, make sure you join the Master Money Newsletter by going to mastermoney.com slash newsletter. and when you join there, you can respond to any of those newsletters, and those will come straight to my inbox, and I will see those, and you may get your question answered on the show. And if you want to help out the show and you're getting value out of the show, consider leaving a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player.

Starting point is 00:02:05 In addition, make sure you're following this podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. That truly does help the show grow and helps this message spread that we believe anybody in this world can build wealth. Now today, I'm going to be diving into three very different questions. And I'm really excited about this episode because there are three really good questions in this episode. The first question is going to be, is now a good time to buy a house? And we're going to look at specific situations like interest rate and agent fees. And should you buy a house in cash if you have the cash available as well? Question number two is how to get around personal guarantees when

Starting point is 00:02:40 you are buying a business and or if you're looking to start a business, is how do you get around some of these personal guarantees that come up with SBA loans or various loan types? And I'm going to talk a ton about that. So if you're interested in buying businesses or you have a business of your own, this is a great section that we're going to be talking through here. It's something you definitely need to know. And then the third question is, can you withdraw your contributions in a Roth 401K? So this is going to be another big thing where we have a bunch of questions about the Roth 401k. And one of them is can you withdraw your contributions, but we're going to go through a bunch of different ones about the raw 401k as well

Starting point is 00:03:16 in the third question. So this is an action-packed episode really excited to dive in. So without further ado, let's get into it. All right. So the first question is, with the upcoming changes in real estate transactions respective to seller and buyer agent fees, do you think it's wise to purchase a home now even though interest rates are high to avoid paying those extra fees? And if I'm able to, should I pay in cash. So this is a fantastic question and one that I've been thinking about a lot as well for a lot of people because if you're not aware, right now, there are a lot of different changes going on in the real estate market and it's developing more and more as time is going on here. But the way that agent fees are structured may change dramatically here very soon. And so this is something where a lot

Starting point is 00:04:04 of people need to keep their eye on this situation, especially if you're looking to buy a house in the next couple of years. And the way that it works right now, if you've never bought a house before, is that the seller actually pays all of the agent fees when they go out and sell a house. The change that may happen here is that the buyers will now pay the buyer agent fees for that transaction. And I always thought, you know, it's kind of weird how it was situated in the first place where the seller was paying the fees for both sides. And I loved it when I bought my first house, but when I sold my first house, I actually did the transaction myself. But I thought through and said, hey, I save myself, you know, $20,000 here just by doing this transaction on my own.

Starting point is 00:04:46 And it would be very weird to pay for that transaction, specifically for an agent I did not choose. And so there's a lot of different factors that you can always think through there. But for buyers, this is not a great scenario because you may have to pay those agent fees. Now, there's a lot of things that would have to happen here and that would have to come and play. First of all, do you have to have an agent to buy a house? Because that'd be a huge barrier to entry if you have to pay those agent fees because you'd have to save way more for a down payment. And so if you have to think through this scenario, am I going to have to come up with an extra $20,000 just to buy a house? Or can I go

Starting point is 00:05:21 through this process on my own and buy a house without an agent? I'm not sure how that's going to shake out or what laws are going to be passed around that. But in this scenario, you know, now you can go buy a house without an agent if you wanted to, but you would be utilizing the seller's agent technically if you went and bought a house, you know, directly from that seller's agent. And so there's a lot of different scenarios that are kind of into play here, but it could get more expensive for buyers. And so this is why it is something that a lot of buyers need to be thinking through. In addition, though, the problem is right now we also have higher interest rates. And so for a lot of people, it is very difficult to afford a home. This is why the millennial

Starting point is 00:05:54 generation can't afford a home because costs are so significantly high. The cost of living is high and interest rates are high, causing a lot of mortgages, for example, if you bought a house in 2020 and then you bought the same exact house in 2024 for the same price your mortgage is going to be you know 25% more in a lot of scenarios and significantly more expensive because those interest rates are higher i built my house in 2020 and my interest rate is super low it's like 2 and a half percent so when i built my house that's not an interest rate i'm ever interested in paying off whereas somebody now who would buy the same exact house for the same exact price is going to pay a thousand two thousand dollars more every single month just because that interest rate is significantly higher right

Starting point is 00:06:37 around 7%. And so because interest rates are high, it makes the cost, the total cost of ownership of that home significantly higher. And this is what I really want you to factor in here when you think through this, is total cost of ownership. So anytime anybody listening to this podcast, if you want to go out and you want to buy a house, you need to make sure that you were factoring in total cost of ownership of that house. Now, we have a, spreadsheet that will actually help you calculate this. It's the total cost of ownership spreadsheet. If you go to mastermoney.com slash resources, right there we have a total cost of ownership spreadsheet. I think at the time I'm recording this, it's the first one that pops up when

Starting point is 00:07:16 you go to mastermoney.com slash resources. And what that spreadsheet is going to do is help you factor in the total cost of ownership based on your specific scenario. So say you're looking at houses at a specific price, you want to make sure you understand what the total cost of ownership of that is going to be. So this is going to factor in financing costs, which are going to be significantly higher with these higher interest rates. And so when you're trying to weigh out interest rates and or paying buyers, agents fees, one big thing to note is that we have no idea what interest rates are going to be doing in the future. People are going to say they know they're going to go up and they say they know they are going to go down. But really, we have no idea what the future holds and nobody really has a crystal ball of where this is going to go. Now, you can make more accurate predictions of interest rates than you could have like a recession happen.

Starting point is 00:08:00 or a housing crisis. That is something that you could make a more accurate prediction. But at the same time, we have no idea where they're going to land. And so it's really difficult to figure out what do I need to do? When is the right time? Instead, you have to run these total cost of ownership numbers. And so when you go to the total cost of ownership, it'll take into consideration those financial numbers. It'll take into consideration how much it's going to cost to maintain the house. It's going to take into consideration, hey, what are actually average rents in my area? And is it actually a better scenario to rent right now than it is to go out and buy. In most markets right now, at the time I'm recording this, most markets, it is a better scenario to rent a house than it is

Starting point is 00:08:42 to buy. And people think, oh, I'm going to build wealth. And when I build wealth, I'm going to buy a house. That is the way to wealth. That is the old school way of thinking. And if you look at the numbers and run the numbers, typically a house is not a great asset whatsoever. You can actually make more money in a high yield savings account if you were at 5% then you would be at a house. Historically, homes have returned about 2.5% when you factor in total cost of ownership. Now, people are going to get mad. Every time I say this, people get mad. But you have to run the numbers and do the math. If you've never done the math before and you just have this preconceived notion that houses are amazing assets, go and run the numbers and actually learn about this stuff.

Starting point is 00:09:20 Because you have to know your numbers before you buy a house. And this is the weird thing about buying a house is most people will go in and buy a house without running the numbers on probably their biggest purchase they've ever made. Just think about that for a second. You're going to go into probably the biggest purchase you've ever made and never run the numbers on a house. And so it's really, really important to make sure that you are doing that before you actually do this. Now, trying to predict home prices, trying to predict what the agent fees are going to be, it's really, really difficult to do that. And so instead, what I would do is look at your personal scenario, run those numbers. And then from there, then you can factor some of this stuff in if you want to. And really, it's going to be something

Starting point is 00:09:56 that is a personal decision. Now, the agent fees long term will be less expensive than what the interest rate impact will be. Because if you have a 30-year mortgage, for example, the interest rate impact is going to be a significant difference, especially if you keep it at that interest rate. Now, you can refinance interest rates once rates drop, if they drop low enough. And so that is another option that you have available to you. As you start, to progress through that mortgage. And so you have a few things that you can do there once you start that process. And so first, I want you to run that total cost of ownership analysis. And then once you do that, you know, the pros and cons here, if you buy now, you lock in the current agent fee structure.

Starting point is 00:10:36 Okay, so you don't have to pay those agent fees. But even if those agent fees are, you know, one, two, three percent, I can't imagine buyers agents are going to be making three percent. I just don't think buyers are going to pay that. And that's just my, you know, assumption. So I think buyer agent fees are going to be significantly lower than probably seller agent fees are going to be. But you can lock in those current agent fee structures. I just don't think it's going to be much, but if it's not much, it's not going to be a big impact. But you could be facing higher interest rates if you buy now, but the market right now is cooling down so you might be able to negotiate better terms for houses that have been sitting longer. If you wait, you could risk potential

Starting point is 00:11:12 increase in home prices and possibly face a new agent fee structure, but you have the opportunity to possibly benefit from lower interest rates if they drop. So as you can see, there's a bunch of what ifs there. And so what I want you to really do is focus on the things that you can control, which is your total cost of ownership right now. Does it actually make sense in your scenario? And should I actually go out and make that decision based on the total cost of ownership? Does it make sense for my financial situation? You know, am I spending less than 30% on housing costs? All these different factors that come into play are really, really important. that stuff we talk about all the time on this podcast. Now, the second part of this question,

Starting point is 00:11:52 though, is if you have the cash on hand, should you pay cash? And paying cash for a home is a very interesting discussion because people who are mortgage-free absolutely love that they are mortgage-free, and I get it. If you are a person who does not like debt and you don't want to have debt in your life, being mortgage-free is an amazing thing. If you're going to buy a house anyway, you have the cash on hand. Being mortgage-free is amazing. Me personally, I would rather invest to those dollars because I know long term a house is not an asset that appreciates in value as much as historically the S&P 500 or some other index fund would or buying a business or something else along those lines. And so for me, I am always looking for business buying opportunities or

Starting point is 00:12:34 opportunities to be able to invest my dollars. And so buying a house cash is not something I'm super interested in. Now, if that's not something that you're looking for, if you don't need a ton of cash on hand and you already have cash available, you're hitting all your financial goals and you're I just don't want any debt in my life. I'd rather have a paid off home. It would reduce my stress. It would reduce my anxiety around money. Then I think that would be a great scenario to utilize cash on hand to go forward because obviously the pros of paying cash is you have no mortgage payments. You have increased cash flow in your life because now you don't have mortgage payments coming in. You have no interest costs, which you're going to save six figures most likely over the course of a

Starting point is 00:13:13 30-year note if you have no interest costs. You have an easier approval process because you're just going to that, you're just flying through the approval process when you buy a home. And in addition, you can leverage this in negotiations and you have no risks of foreclosures. There's a lot of pros to paying for a house and cash. Now, the cons of paying for a house in cash is you reduce liquidity if you don't have a lot of liquidity, meaning if you don't have a ton of cash on hand and you just deplete it all by buying a house, then you reduce that liquidity. You don't have as much leverage that you can utilize or not actually using the pros of leverage.

Starting point is 00:13:44 Your tax benefits go down. and then obviously diversification is another thing to think through as you go through this. And so really, it comes down to your own personal financial situation. But in addition, what I would think through if you're going to pay for a house in cash is if it reduces your stress and anxiety, you know, that is a real reason to use money for a specific purpose. Is money is there to reduce your stress and anxiety. It is not there to just buy you fancy things, but it's there to bring you value. And if you value being debt free, there is nothing wrong.

Starting point is 00:14:15 with paying for a house in cash. You know, doing the most optimized thing is not always the best decision for every single person. This is why I like to call it personal finance because your personal situation is going to dictate what the best decision is for your life. And in this scenario, there are a lot of pros to paying cash and there are some cons to paying cash. Like you just can't grow that money in an investment account or something else along those lines.

Starting point is 00:14:40 So those are the things that I would think through. So if you're thinking about buying a house right now, run total cost. of ownership first. That's the number one thing. And if you're thinking about paying cash, just do a pros and cons list. For me personally, I probably would not pay cash for a house. But if your interest rates are coming in really, really high, 7, 8%, you could pay cash refinance later or something like that as well. So a couple of options there for you to think through. But I hope that answer helps you. And check out that total cost of ownership calculator. It's going to help you a ton. That's why we developed it. And we give it away for free.

Starting point is 00:15:09 It's one of my favorite things that we give away for free because I think it is just so cool what you can learn just by running the numbers on the biggest purchase you ever make. So run the numbers on that first and then let me know if you have any other questions. All right, this second question I love, and it's something I don't get to talk about a ton, but it is what I spend most of my time actually doing and thinking about is business buying. And it is one that, you know, is something I do a lot now, is just kind of thinking through business problems and business situations. And so I'm really excited to kind of answer this one. So the question is, I listen to the book, buy, then build, and was excited to hear about acquisition entrepreneurship.

Starting point is 00:15:46 But it was mentioned that SBA loans need to be personally guaranteed. And so, yes, that's true. First of all, Biden Build is a fantastic book. It is the book that got me interested in acquisition entrepreneurship. And Walker Dibble, the author of that book, was actually on this podcast. So you can search Personal Finance Podcast Walker Dible, and we actually have a conversation about that book if you have not heard that one. I would love to give acquisition entrepreneurship a shot,

Starting point is 00:16:09 but a 90% loan that puts myself and my family and financial Jeopardy makes me a bit apprehensive. Are there ways to reduce slash shelter the risk of an SBA loan to purchase a business without the personal guarantee? Thanks for the help and love the podcast. So this is a really, really good question and one that I struggled with a ton when I started to buy businesses. And specifically with the SBA loan, I'm going to give you a bunch of options here and I'm to talk through this. But specifically with the SBA loan, this is a government loan. There is not much you can change with this whatsoever. So when it comes to SBA loan, I'm going to ask, SBA loans, it is very stringent on how they handle this situation. If you've ever been to the

Starting point is 00:16:47 process of like an FHA loan, when you buy a house or something like that, it is similar to that where you only can follow their process. There's not a lot of flexibility when it comes to these loans. And so you can't really customize these loans. And yes, the big deal here is the personal guarantee. So for people who don't know, a personal guarantee in the most simple form is something where when you take out a loan, you are actually personally guaranteeing on your personal financial side that you're going to guarantee that you will pay back that loan. If you do not, they can come after your house, they can come after all your brokerage accounts, they can come after everything you own. And if you don't have anything left, you either have to pay them back. You have to come up to

Starting point is 00:17:25 a settlement and or there's a lot of different things that can happen. You can file for bankruptcy, which is what a lot of people do. And so it can really put you in a really bad financial situation if something does not work out. And so personal guarantees are not something to mess with. And when you're thinking through a lot of this stuff, my goal, is always protect the house first. Protect your personal situation first because risk is so high. I've seen so many families be just absolutely decimated by personal guarantees because they're running businesses. That being said, it is not to say that a personal guarantee is not worth the risk of owning a business if you know what you're doing. Now, if this is your first business and you're taking on a

Starting point is 00:18:06 million dollar personal guarantee, that might be somewhat of a risk. But if you've started your own businesses, you understand how business works, and I mean started real businesses and understand how real businesses work, this may be something that you'd be willing to take on. Now, as of late, personal guarantees have been everywhere in my life. For example, the most recent business that we bought, I'm actually having to put personal guarantees on some of the leases that we are putting out for some of these different locations. And when we have some of these different locations, even when you go into a lease, you're personally guaranteeing that you're going to be able to pay the rent for X amount of years when you sign a lease at a specific location.

Starting point is 00:18:44 So personal guarantees are everywhere in small business, and it's not the easiest thing to get around, but I'm going to give you a bunch of creative options and some things that I'm doing. When it comes to, you know, signing a lease and or taking out a loan, a couple of things that you can do is one. You can start with seller financing. Anytime you buy a business, the best way to buy a business is with a seller financing. When we had Cody Sanchez on this podcast, we were talking through. What are the best ways to finance, you know, acquisition, entrepreneurship and all those different things when you're buying boring businesses? And her favorite way was seller financing. My personal favorite way is seller financing as well, because you can become really flexible

Starting point is 00:19:20 in the way that you structure seller financing. So one thing that you can do, for example, is you can go out and if they really want a personal guarantee, then what you can do is structure it in a bunch of different ways. One way I like to do it is a rolling personal guarantee, meaning that I will personally guarantee all of these payments for one year out. And so, for example, if it's July, I will personally guarantee from July this year to July next year that I will make these payments. If it's August, I will personally guarantee from August this year to August next year that I will make these payments. And so this rolling personal guarantee renews every single year, reduces the total liability on you and your personal finances, and it will

Starting point is 00:20:00 allow you to have a really good outlook to say to yourself, hey, I don't know if this is going to work out in the next three to four months. And it will give you a good indication that you may need to either have another conversation to restructure the deal or a bunch of other things. And so this makes you liable for one year at a time instead of the entire 10 years. You can also do this over the course of things like two years. So a lot of leases, when I'm in negotiations with a lot of these leases, they want me to personal guarantee, you know, if we do a five-year lease, for example, they want me to personally guarantee the entire lease for five years. And so we go back and forth in negotiations and a lot of times we'll land on

Starting point is 00:20:34 two years that I will personally guarantee. So you can reduce the amount of years that you are also personally guaranteeing when you have either seller financing or some investor funding or equity financing. These are different ways that you can reduce those personal guarantees. And so thinking through creative ways to guarantee this is really, really important. Now, one difficult thing is I think a lot of people think when they go into business, especially if you're new with this stuff, is they think the LLC or the company is going to be guaranteeing it. And then, you know, they could just go after the company. No, they're going to come after you too on the personal side because every single lease is going

Starting point is 00:21:06 to want some additional backing. So you just got to make sure that you structure these in the proper way. There are also things like bonds that you can get. So you can get insurance bonds. They are much more difficult to go out and get. And they're also very expensive. So I actually explored this option with a couple different insurance brokers. And really most of them told me that these bonds were, you know, more headache

Starting point is 00:21:26 than it would be worth it to have these bonds on hand. But you can go out and get insurance for personal guarantees as well. They just are expensive on how much you are going to have to pay. So I like things like partial guarantees and you can negotiate that partial guarantee, but also things like collateral as well. So you can put collateral up instead of personally guaranteeing your entire financial situation. And so for example, I have a friend who does this where he has one rental property that he really doesn't care a ton about. And so with that specific rental, property, he will put that up for collateral when he does specific deals with personal guarantees. And this can actually reduce the need for a full guarantee if you have things like collateral

Starting point is 00:22:05 that you want to utilize as well. And you can talk to your lender, see if they would actually, you know, if you're going through a traditional bank, maybe your lender will utilize collateral. And sometimes you can actually get creative with some of that stuff. And so really it's, A, seeing if you can get some seller financing or if you can get some private money from someone specifically to help you fund this deal, and maybe they have a small equity stake for funding the deal. That is the better way to go with a lot of these scenarios. And then if you can't find that, going the SBA route is going to mean that you have to personally guarantee the entire amount. So you just got to be careful about that and make sure if it's your first business, maybe you

Starting point is 00:22:39 take out a smaller SBA loan than you would traditionally in the past. Another option, though, is just reducing your overall risk when you buy businesses. So you can become more and more confident, for example, if a business has been successful over the course of, say, the last five years, and then the previous owner stays on and you pay them a salary and that salary factors into your numbers and it makes a ton of sense. Well, now that business risk has gone down significantly because the operator is still on hand and the manager is still on hand and maybe they just don't want to do all the extra stuff surrounding the business and they want to have that big cash payout. Well, that might be a great scenario for you. If you can keep the operator on hand, they can teach you how they do everything. And in addition, it reduces your overall risk.

Starting point is 00:23:19 So a big part of personal guarantees is also just reducing overall risk when you buy the. that business. And so that's another thing I just want you to think through as you go through this process. But really, getting creative with personal guarantees is the route that I would take. And it is one that I struggle with all the time because I have to give them all the time. But I get really creative with them and I try to reduce the amount of time that I personally guarantee. That is the number one thing you definitely want to do. If you can do six months, if you can do 12 months. And then just have it roll. If they really don't feel comfortable with you doing six or 12 months, just tell them, hey, this is going to renew every single year.

Starting point is 00:23:49 But this is just something that makes sure we are both on the same page. Because really, what a personal guarantee is, is you're just guaranteeing, hey, I'm going to pay you back. My intent is to pay you back. And you want to make sure that they're just comfortable with what your intent is, and your intent is to pay them back. And if they need monthly P&Ls or anything like that, they may want that kind of stuff if you are trying to reduce that personal guarantee. But this is the number one thing that I have conversations with my business partners is, hey, how do we reduce these personal guarantees? And how do we get to the point in time where the guarantees actually fall in the business instead of on the personal level? That's still something we're working through every single

Starting point is 00:24:23 So great question. Love that question. And I'm glad that you're thinking about that because most people don't think about that before they buy a business and then they get themselves in a sticky situation. So congrats on thinking through this. Congrats on reading, buy them, build, and actually looking through this process. I'm excited to see what you do on your journey going forward. I remember when I needed to hire someone fast, but finding the right person quickly

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Starting point is 00:27:32 An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. All right, the next question is, I have recently done extensive research on Roth forms of retirement accounts and find differing information in my research. Some sources say that the rules for both Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks for withdraws are the same, but the contribution and eligibility rules are different. However, I see other sources that say you can withdraw your contributions before you are 59.5, penalty and tax free from a Roth IRA after the five-year rule, but not the Roth 401K. We are also having our first baby at the end of the year, and my wife's leave is unpaid. So first of all, congratulations on having your first baby. That is absolutely amazing and really excited for you all. That is one fun journey, especially the beginning here. So again, congratulations. That is amazing.

Starting point is 00:28:32 And so you have a couple of questions here that you want to ask through. So the first question is, is it true that you can not withdraw Roth 401K contributions in the same way before you are 59.5 as you can from a Roth IRA? I'd like to withdraw contributions from my Roth 401K early for retirement. Secondly, Does the five-year rule mean that you can only withdraw funds up to the amount that you contributed five plus years ago? Or can you withdraw all of your contributions if the account is five years or older? And then the third question is, I know with Roth IRAs you can withdraw up to $5,000 tax and penalty free for the birth of a child. Is it also true for the Roth 401K as well? I'd like to pull for my wife's Roth 401k to make up for the loss and pay while she is on leave.

Starting point is 00:29:19 All right. So first, let's look at the first question. And the first question, And the first question is, is it true that you can not withdraw Roth 401K contributions in the same way before you are 59.5 as you can from the Roth IRA? And so this is going to be the first question that we dive into. So for a lot of people who have never heard this before, with a Roth IRA, there is something called the five-year rule. And what the five-year rule means is that your contributions that you contribute to a Roth IRA, you can actually withdraw those penalty-free. So contributions going into the Roth IRA, you can take those back out. And this is one pro to the Roth IRAs. It could be like an emergency emergency fund if you've gotten a really bad financial situation.

Starting point is 00:29:57 You can actually withdraw your contributions from that Roth IRA, tax and penalty free if you needed it for any scenario. But the thing is, you cannot withdraw on the earnings. So the amount of money that your money has made, you cannot withdraw on those at all without facing a penalty of at least 10%. And so this is why we like the Roth conversion ladder for people who retire early because those are massive contributions that you can put into your Roth IRA and be able to withdraw those in early retirement, which is a really, really great thing. The problem, though, is that the Roth 401k, because it is a 401k, has way more stringent rules. So withdrawals from a Roth 401k before

Starting point is 00:30:35 age 59.5 may be subject to taxes and penalties on the earnings, even if the account has been open for five years. In the Roth IRA, you have to wait five years before you can actually withdraw those contributions without having to pay a penalty. But unlike Roth IRAs, you generally cannot withdraw the contribution tax and penalty free before age 59 and a half with a Roth 401K. And that's just the general rule. There are some very specific nuances and situations where you could, but they are very, very specific. And in this scenario, you would not be able to. So for most people, generally, you cannot withdraw contributions in the Roth 401k because it's a 401K. It's not the IRA. And so that is one more flexible option with the Roth IRA is that you have that option available to you.

Starting point is 00:31:20 Now, the second question you ask is, does the five-year rule mean you can only withdraw funds up to the amount that you contributed five plus years ago? Or can you withdraw all of your contributions if the account is five years or older? So again, let's look at the Roth IRA and the Roth 401k. With the Roth IRA, you can always withdraw your contributions, the amount that you put in, at any time tax and penalty-free, regardless of your age. And I think there's a misconception there with a lot of people, but you can always withdraw those contributions, tax and penalty free. And then the earnings can be withdrawn tax and penalty free if you're over the age of 59. And the account has been open for at least five years. So that's the key is the five year

Starting point is 00:31:56 rule applies to earnings, not contributions. And you can withdraw all your contributions at any time tax and penalty free. But with the five year rule to withdraw earnings tax and penalty free, the account must have been open for at least five years and you must be at least 59. and a half. Now, with the Roth 401k, the five-year rule also applies to earnings. However, unlike Roth IRAs, the Roth 401k doesn't allow you to withdraw the contributions tax and penalty-free before 59.5. So, the five-year rule kind of helps you determine if earnings can be withdrawn tax and penalty-free if you meet the age requirement. Now, your third question is, I know with Roth IRAs you can withdraw up to $5,000 tax and penalty-free for the birth of a child. Is it true

Starting point is 00:32:36 for the Roth 401K as well? I'd like to pull from my wife's Roth 401. to make up for loss and pay while she's on leave. And this is a great question. So with the Roth IRA, you can withdraw up $5,000 tax and penalty free for the birth or adoption of a child. With the Roth 401K, there was the Secure Act of 2019 that extended this provision to 401Ks, including Roth 401K, so you can withdraw up to $5,000 per parent per child tax and penalty free for the birth or adoption of a child.

Starting point is 00:33:07 So yes, you can do that as well. So to summarize these three questions is the Roth IRAs allow you to withdraw contributions tax and penalty free at any time while Roth 401ks do not. Okay. Number two, the five-year rule applies to earnings for both Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks. For Roth IRAs, you can withdraw all contributions anytime. For Roth 401K's, contributions are not easily accessible before age 59. So really with the Roth 401k, you're thinking more so age 59.5 is when you can start to pull stuff out of there. And then number three, with the birth of a child, both Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks are going to allow for a penalty-free withdrawal

Starting point is 00:33:44 of up to $5,000 for the birth or adoption of a child. So you can definitely do that. If that is something you want to do, that is an option that is available to you. So I hope that helps and answers your questions. I know a lot of these Roth IRAs and Roth 401K things can get into the weeds sometimes. And there's something where we continuously have to keep doing episodes because they keep updating rules. And so it's really important to stay up to date on a lot of rule. So I'm glad you're thinking through this before you just take action. A lot of people will go out and take action and then they just make a mistake and they have to go back and correct it, which it takes a lot more work. So I'm glad you're taking through this now. And again, congratulations on

Starting point is 00:34:20 having your first child. That is amazing and really excited for you guys. And thank you everyone for listening to this podcast episode. Cannot thank you guys enough. We are trying to bring you as much value as we possibly can on this podcast. That is our entire goal is to bring you value. And we hope we did that today. If you guys got value out of this episode, share this episode with a family member or a friend who can get value out of this as well. Thank you so much again for listening and we will see you on the next episode. Rosen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play. Feel the fun with Play Ojo. The online casino with all the latest slot and live casino games. What you win is yours to keep with no wagering requirements, instant payouts and no minimum withdraws. Hey, I just won. Woohoo. Hey, oh Joe. Honey, forget about the lasagna. Let's celebrate.

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