The Personal Finance Podcast - The Guide To Scaling in Real Estate Quickly!

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Starting point is 00:00:29 On this episode of the personal finance podcast, we're going to talk about the blueprint to scale quickly in real estate. Everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Andrew, founder of mastermoney.com. And today on the personal finance podcast, we're going to be talking about the blueprint to scale quickly in real estate. If you have any questions, hit me up on Instagram or TikTok at Master Money Co. and follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever podcast player you love listening to this podcast. If you want to help out the show,

Starting point is 00:01:25 leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Can't thank you guys enough for leaving those five-star reviews. They help the show out so incredibly much. And don't forget to check us out on YouTube as well at Master Money on YouTube. So today, we're going to be getting and laying out a blueprint on how to scale in real estate quickly. typically on this podcast, we talk about how to get rich slowly. We want you to hit your minimum investment goals and utilize that to get rich slowly.

Starting point is 00:01:56 But today I'm going to lay out a path of how you can scale a real estate portfolio fairly quickly in a much faster way. And if you want to build wealth, a lot of people think you need to take massive risks. But you can do this in a very controlled way. And we're going to lay out the exact example of one way that you could do this to scale in real estate and that you could utilize this blueprint and look to the very controlled way. and look at the real estate options that you're interested in. Maybe you're interested in single family houses.

Starting point is 00:02:21 Maybe you're interested in apartment buildings. Maybe you're interested in short-term rentals. Maybe you're interested in mobile home parks. You can look at this blueprint and use this blueprint across any real estate situation that you're interested in. But you want to specialize in one, especially when you're starting out, so that you can actually master real estate in that specialization. Now, what I'm going to do today is when I lay out this blueprint, I'm going to do it with multifamily housing because it's a very real way to understand how you can scale very quickly.

Starting point is 00:02:51 And multifamily housing is one great investing asset to cash flow. So you can really increase your cash flow over time by investing in real estate. Now before I jump into this, why would you want to invest your money into real estate? Why would you want to invest your money into the market, all these different things? Why do you want to invest your dollars? Because cash should not be sitting still. If you get cash coming in, if it's not for your emergency fund or, short-term savings goals, things like if you're saving up for a house down payment or you're saving up

Starting point is 00:03:17 for a car payment or something of that nature, then cash sitting is okay. But if you have cash just sitting there in a savings account for no reason, that cash needs to get moving. You need to move that cash into assets that are going to create more cash for you over time. You want your cash to have babies, as Grant Cardone says. Meaning, you want your cash to be invested and create more cash for you. So the reason why you do this, the reason why you invest in real estate is to create cash flow so that you can scale. Because as you start to scale in real estate, you can really accelerate your cash flow every single month. And if you look at this, you look at the way that I'm going to be talking about this, you can really start to see how the cash flow is going to allow you to exit your day job if you want to. Now, if you like to have the cash flow and have your salary, more power to you because there are things where you can get better loans and you can do much more things when you have a salary.

Starting point is 00:04:10 So looking at this situation, that is the reason why you would be interested in investing in real estate. And this is the reason why we are interested in scaling in real estate, because we can get from point A to point B much faster in real estate or business or something along those lines instead of waiting that 30 to 40 years. So I'm going to go into this blueprint. Now, the thing I want you to understand is you don't have to be overly aggressive with this blueprint because you want to build wealth in a safe, controlled way. You want to make sure you're preserving that capital. Warren Buffett said the rule to investing, rule number one is don't lose money. And rule number two is don't forget rule number one. And you've got to remember that when you're investing your dollars.

Starting point is 00:04:49 Because over time, if you just continually keep investing your dollars into cash producing assets, whether it's stocks, index funds, real estate, any of these things, you're going to do well over time as long as you stay invested over time. And you run the numbers correctly, you know what you're doing. So here on this podcast, we're trying to teach you everything that you need to know so that you can invest your dollars and create that freedom in your life. That's what you want to invest your dollars for. You want to do this in a safe controlled way because if you make a mistake, you don't want to lose money.

Starting point is 00:05:19 You don't want to violate rule number one, which is do not lose money. So we're going to do this in a safe controlled way where you can add properties as you feel comfortable and you can add and scale up as you feel comfortable because you want to limit these mistakes. You don't want to make mistakes, especially early on because if you make a mistake early on, you're going to get discouraged, and that's what we do not want you to do in real estate. So you could think about this strategy in a specific way, because the way I want you to think about this

Starting point is 00:05:48 is the way we're building this out, the way we're building this blueprint out, is you could think of three circles. There are two outside circles and one middle circle. And the middle circle is your comfort zone. And inside of your comfort zone, that's not where you want to stay over time. And then there's two outside circles.

Starting point is 00:06:04 One circle is something you understand, but it's just outside your comfort zone. and the other circle is something you don't understand in his outside your comfort zone. You want to stay away from things that you don't understand in his outside your comfort zone. You want to stay within things

Starting point is 00:06:17 that are outside your comfort zone but that you understand because that is where growth is going to happen and that is where this blueprint is going to be laid out. Now the original idea for this blueprint was from a guy named Brandon Turner and I absolutely love this.

Starting point is 00:06:30 He was the host of the bigger pockets back in the day and he laid out a similar blueprint to this and he called it the stack. It's a similar principle to this and so I'm going to lay. it out. I'm going to go in more detail than they do in the stack. And I'm going to show you exactly how you can do this. And this is exactly what I'm going to utilize for the new venture I am doing in real estate, where I'm going to look at doing this same exact blueprint as I go

Starting point is 00:06:52 into a new real estate venture. So let me talk through some of this right here. So if that's something you're into, then let's get into it. So phase zero is the education phase. Now we always talk about this early on. This needs to be six months to a year. If you have no idea what you're doing in real estate, you need to get educated. All the best real estate investors that I know are readers or they listen to podcasts or they try to learn as much as they possibly can. But most millionaires, most people who are wealthy, read. So here's what you need to understand. You need to get educated, but you do not need to get stuck here too long. I don't want you to have analysis paralysis. It took me three years to buy my first property. And that was way too long. If you do this within

Starting point is 00:07:31 six months to a year, because you want to start getting the ball rolling because the key here is you're to learn way more once you get that first property, but you have to know what you're doing, then you get the property, then you put it into action and say, some of this works, some of this doesn't work, because not everything is practical for every single situation. So, you want to understand these core things, at least at the beginning, so that you can start to buy properties. You want to understand how to find a good deal utilizing books or mentors or podcasts or real estate meetups. You want to understand those things. Now, we just had a podcast episode called 26 ways to find real estate deals.

Starting point is 00:08:06 If you haven't checked out that episode, make sure you check that out because we're talking about a bunch of different ways, and I'm sure some of those you have not heard of. So make sure you check out that episode. The next thing you want to know, and we have an episode on this as well, is how to run the numbers in real estate. I'll link both of them down below in the show notes so you can check those out, but you have to know how to run the numbers.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Your money is made when you buy a property. It's not when you sell a property. You have to understand how to run the numbers and how to buy the property right. Because if you buy the property wrong, entire situation is going to go awry. The third thing you want to understand is systems for finding good deals. So we expand on that, again, in that episode, on how to build out systems so you can find good deals.

Starting point is 00:08:44 And then you want to build on a network of other investors or if you want property managers, all those different things. You want to find a network of people who are going to be within your circle so that you can build wealth in real estate. So that's phase zero is the education phase. Now we're going into phase one. So phase one in this example is we want to invest in multifamily. property, for example. So the first thing you do is in year one, you go ahead, you run the numbers,

Starting point is 00:09:08 you know what you're doing now, you go learn as much as you possibly can, and you go out and you buy your first duplex. Okay? So you have a duplex in place for your first year. And that's all you're going to do for the first year. You're going to buy one duplex. This is your learning phase. This is where the true learning kicks in because you have the head knowledge, you have the understanding, and now you're putting it into practice with this duplex. You're managing two tenants, not just one, because a lot of times if you just buy a single family house, it's pretty easy to manage that. So if you have two tenants in place,

Starting point is 00:09:36 you're going to have to deal with a different situation when you buy this duplex. Now, you're going to learn so much in terms of how the closing process works. If you never bought a property before, you're going to learn how the closing process works. You're going to have to get an inspection. You're going to have to go through closing. There's going to be closing costs involved.

Starting point is 00:09:50 You're going to have to work with your agent if you don't have a real estate license. All of these different things. The next thing you're going to learn is how to market and price rents for your property. So putting them up on Zillowrents or Realtor.com or all these different places, or if you get an agent, you can put it on the MLS. To get this property listed is a system that you have to put into place.

Starting point is 00:10:11 Now, let me give you some advice when it comes to your real estate systems because in this first phase, that's what you're starting to build is the baseline for your real estate systems. And these are going to evolve over time. Your systems will definitely evolve over time. Because as you scale and as you grow, you're going to have to make tweaks. The same systems you have with your duplex are not going to work. for a 50 unit apartment building.

Starting point is 00:10:32 So you have to make sure that you understand how to scale this as you go through the process. But let me give you some advice. As you start off, you want to make sure that while you're doing something, while you're going through the process, that you're writing down the steps in either a checklist form

Starting point is 00:10:46 or you're writing them in a form where somebody else can do this for you. Because as you scale your business and if you really want to do this thing, you really want to build up a real estate business but you don't want to be working in your business, then you need to be able to hire people and they need to be able to step in

Starting point is 00:10:59 and know your systems. So you have to have, we're called standard operating procedures. Now this is laid out in the book The E-Mith, and it's also laid out in a book called Traction in a similar way. And standard operating procedures are going to tell you exactly how things work within your business. We have this in every single business that I build. I build out standard operating procedures. Master Money has standard operating procedures.

Starting point is 00:11:22 Real estate businesses have standard operating procedures. My other online businesses have standard operating procedures. Everything is in place. We want it written down. We want a checklist so that anybody can step in and be able to do that. You need to do this from day one. If you have one house, if you have one duplex, build this out. Because if you're serious about this business,

Starting point is 00:11:40 everyone is going to crush you if you don't have systems in place and you're just going to do everything that much slower. The next thing you're going to learn is how to manage your property. Now, the best book on managing your property that I think is out there is the book by Brandon Turner called How to Manage Your Rental Properties, I think is what it's called. And him and his wife wrote this, book, and they literally lay out their systems on how to manage a property. So if you're doing

Starting point is 00:12:01 property management up front, then you want to make sure that you get that book because it literally lays out, it's a step-by-step book on exactly how to do that. And he gives his forms, he gives his leases, all that kind of stuff within that book. Then you are going to figure out what your surrounding team is with this duplex, meaning who's going to repair the sink when it gets leaky, who's going to fix the toilet, who's your handyman, who's your contractor if you have to remodel the property and make it look nicer? If you're looking at something like an Airbnb, you're going to have to really remodel the property. Who is going to be the folks who are going to help you out with your property? You want to build out that surrounding team, which is a very important team.

Starting point is 00:12:35 They have to be reliable and they have to be people that you could utilize at any point in time. Now, if you're new to an area, you just bought a property and you're new to an area, look at something like Home Advisor where you can find folks in the area who have to be vetted. Now, a lot of times they're pricing maybe a little bit higher, but it's a good starting point to find people that you need within that area. And then you're also going to be setting up and learning how to set up your financing. Now, getting your financing is part of phase zero, but in addition, you're going to be setting up your financing so that you can start to learn how the financing works with properties. Because after you get your first deal, there's a lot of things that you can do

Starting point is 00:13:10 there. Say, for example, you put extra value into the property. You remodel the property. You inject value into that property. Well, you can refinance that property, pull the cash back out and guess what? You can buy another one the next year. So there was a lot of things that you can do with financing that you need to learn about as you get your first property. So there is so much learning going on with this very first property. This is what I'm saying, don't wait too long like I did to buy your first property. I started to think about it and I started to overanalyze. I'm like, well, which situation do I want to get into?

Starting point is 00:13:39 Do I want to buy single family? Do I want to buy multifamily? Do I want to buy mobile home parks? And I was going all over the place, just learning as much as I possibly can. Instead of just taking action. So I finally took action when I was about 25 and bought the first property. So this is where you have to understand. understand what is going on.

Starting point is 00:13:58 What's going on in this first phase is that you're learning. Now, phase two, what you're going to see is there's going to be a theme here. We're going to double it up here. So in phase two, the next year, you're going to buy a fourplex in year two. So what this does is in this phase, now all of a sudden, you've got six units. You bought a fourplex. Maybe you refinance the first property and bought the fourplex. And you're going to learn all new sorts of lessons because each property brings new lessons.

Starting point is 00:14:23 And you're going to learn that very quickly. My first property I ever bought was super easy to manage. And it was super, I was like, oh, this thing is so easy. My second property I bought was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my entire life. I had evictions all over the place. I had stuff that I had to do. And we'll talk about that property one day because that's a very long story. But the hardest property I ever had to manage was my second property.

Starting point is 00:14:42 I wanted to quit. And this is one of the things that you're going to learn is every property is very different. So your second property, say, for example, is a fourplex. So we're doubling it up here. You had a twoplex. Now you have a fourplex. you have six doors. And for some people, that's a great supplemental income for them.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Because if you have six doors, say, for example, they're cash flowing $200 a door. Now you're making an extra $1,200 a month just on those properties. And here's what you're doing at this time. Now you're solidifying your team because you're going to need your team more often with six doors. You're adjusting your system slightly as you go about learning how to do this. You're learning how to manage multiple properties, meaning you have multiple addresses. Now you have multiple things you have to do. Your tax situation changes a little bit.

Starting point is 00:15:22 a lot of things are happening here, and you're learning how to scale this business and you're learning how to make these adjustments because you're doing it safely, you're doing it in a way that you still understand, but it's outside of your comfort zone. You're scaling it in an area where you understand, but it's outside of your comfort zone.

Starting point is 00:15:37 You're pushing more and more each and every year. So now you're two years under your belt. You got these six properties. Now what you want to do, and here is how we're going to stack this thing up, is we're going to go to phase three, which is in year three. And you're going to buy an eight-unit building.

Starting point is 00:15:52 So we went from two units to four units to eight units. So that means you have now 14 units under your belt. But the coolest thing about this is now you're getting into commercial properties. So anything above four units is now a commercial property. So you're getting a different type of loan when you do that, or if you're paying cash, it's a different story. But commercial properties are anything above four units. So if you go into a bank and say, I want to get a loan for a five-unit property, then you have to go get a commercial loan. You can't get a residential loan anymore.

Starting point is 00:16:20 So that's why house hacking works for them. most part, four units and under when you're starting off if you are interested in house hacking. So you're learning about commercial properties and you're learning about commercial financing. And you're scaling up most likely now. If you have 16 units, you may want to have a property manager. Now, you absolutely don't have to. I know people who have been working full time who had 80 units that they were self-managing. I would not want to do that. That's not something I would ever be interested in because I like my time. One guy I knew had 80 units and he was managing full-time as a police officer.

Starting point is 00:16:50 So he was working 60, 70 hours a week and doing that on the side. So it's definitely doable, but do you really want to spend all of your time working? So that's the question you have to ask yourself. Now, property managers will take 8 to 10 percent in some areas that's way more. And if you're in a short-term rental or something like that, short-term rental property managers will take anywhere from 20 to 40 percent. Some I've even heard take 50 percent. So you've got to be careful on where you are.

Starting point is 00:17:14 Now, 8 to 12 percent is a fair range. So if you're looking for a property manager, you're running the numbers. make sure you run those numbers that way. We talk about that in how to run the numbers on a rental property as well. So in this eight unit building, you're learning about commercial stuff and you're learning about small commercial buildings. So now you have 16 units. You're learning how to manage 16 people's dwellings at the same time in year three.

Starting point is 00:17:35 Now, you're starting to get the hang of it. You're starting to get comfortable. You got the property manager in place to kind of take over some of those responsibilities. And now you're thinking through some people can retire with 16 units. If you could retire, if you run the cash flow numbers and you could I want financial independence as fast as I possibly can. You could do this stack and try to get to 16 units in three years. And guess what?

Starting point is 00:17:55 You may be retired, especially if you live a frugal lifestyle or if you can get really high cash flow. In these markets, it's tough to get really high cash flow. But if you're in an area like I've heard certain areas in Ohio right now, still have some pretty high cash flow. Toledo, Ohio is one example that I've been watching people invest in some of those areas and they still have high cash flow. So there's things like that that you can kind of think through and say, hey, what is

Starting point is 00:18:17 my fire number. How much do I need for financial independence? Now, when we come back, we're going to jump into phase four. So lately, I've been noticing how fast things are changing at home. The kids are growing like crazy, clothes don't fit anymore, and routines are changing. And it just hits you. Life is expanding. And when your life grows, your responsibility grows with it. That's something I've been thinking about more this spring, making sure the safety net we have in place actually matches the life that we're building. And that's where PolicyGen comes in. Policy Genius is an insurance company. They're an online marketplace that helps you compare life insurance quotes from some of the top insurers in America, all in one place for free. And their

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Starting point is 00:21:28 Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. All right, so phase four is now you're in year four, and you bought an 8 unit, a 4 unit, and a duplex. So you have those 14 units. And now you're going to outperform. those first three years all in one buy. You're going to buy yourself a 16 unit building. You see the theme here. We're doubling up every single time. Now, with a 16 unit building, this is where you're starting to scale up a little more. And this is a very nice spot to be

Starting point is 00:21:56 because the cool thing about this range is if you're in the range of 10 to 50 units, it's too large for the small investors and it's too small for the big investors. So there's a certain type of clientele that's within this range when you're buying units in this range. So at a 16 unit building, it's a nice spot to be in because maybe it's a little less competitive, but the prices are going to come in where you're still going to have some really wealthy people in play who are getting into real estate or who specialize within this range. So you want to make sure that you know what you're doing. And you're learning how to really scale your systems at this point because you're doubling it up now going from 14 units to now you're going up to 30 units. Now, at 30 units, most people can retire at 30 units. That's the area where most people are going to be able to completely retire.

Starting point is 00:22:40 And you could do this in four years if you can scale up and find these properties. Now, maybe it's more difficult to find these properties in a hot market, but you can also scale this out where, hey, maybe you can't find a 16-unit building, but maybe you can find a couple four-plexes and an eight-plex or something along those lines where you can find a mixture of these. So getting into this is a higher-level commercial building. So that means you're using funding. You're reinvesting cash flow some of your underbuildings so that you can start to scale

Starting point is 00:23:06 up your portfolio. And if you reinvest the cash flow to scale up your portfolio, you have a lot of options here. You can use equity. You can use the cash flow. There's a lot of things that you can do to start to scale up with some of this cash. But you're doing the right thing here because what you're doing is you're taking cash that is sitting and you're putting it into things that are going to produce more cash for you. So you're increasing the amount of cash flow that you have every single month.

Starting point is 00:23:29 And whenever you do that, you have a lot more things that you can do when you have more cash flow. Now, you're going to have a lot of questions here. Are your systems scaling enough? do you need to make major tweaks? If they're not scaling enough, if they're not doing the right thing, you need to make major tweaks so that you can scale those systems. Do they hold up with more units? Does your property manager hold up with this many units?

Starting point is 00:23:48 Are they actually taking care of these properties? Or do you need to get a better property manager who can handle this many units in terms of with one investor? Now, most property management companies, they're not profitable until they have 300 units. So any property management company can handle 30 units, but can they handle it with one investor is the question? Are they actually taking care of your property?

Starting point is 00:24:07 Because if you want this business to thrive and you really want to go up to the next level, then what you need to do is you need to make sure that your entire team is solidified and that they're doing the right thing for your business. Because nobody's going to care about your business as much as you do. And then your job is to manage the property manager. And now at this point, your cash flow should be accelerating. So you can start to figure out how large you want to grow up. You're happy at this phase.

Starting point is 00:24:31 Like I said, most people can retire at the 30-unit phase. But if you want to be fat fire or you want to pursue a large net worth, you want to get to 10, 20, 30 million dollar net worth, or you want to go even higher than that, then you're going to want to scale even more. So looking at this, you can be well worth $10 million with this many buildings just at your net worth rate. But if you want to scale even higher and you want that cash flow to go higher, then you're going to have to go to phase five. So phase five is buying a 32 unit building. Now this is when you're really starting to scale up. in every single year you're scaling more and more. Now, some of the things you're going to have to come into play here is as you start to scale to these levels,

Starting point is 00:25:09 you're going to have to figure out, A, where to get loans. You're going to probably have to start getting private loans because the banks are going to want to lend you forever doing this year over year. B, you want to figure out, are your system still scaling? You're going to have to ask yourself that on every single level. Are they doing okay? Because now you have a lot of units that you're going to have to be dealing with. You're going to have 62 units that you're dealing with at this point in time. And then at this level, mistakes cost more.

Starting point is 00:25:32 So you need to make sure when you're running the numbers, it's solidified. You know exactly what you're doing with this many units. Your cash on cash return is going up over time. Because otherwise, if you're not making the return that you want to, if you're not making a return higher than 8 to 10%, you might as well just be investing in the S&P 500 and not taking on these headaches. You want to make sure that you're cash flowing enough and making enough cash and getting the tax breaks that you need to make this worthwhile.

Starting point is 00:25:55 Because at 62 units, you're starting to get to yourself where you're either going to have to hire out an internal team or that property management team has to be pretty good in place. So thinking through some of those options makes it to where you want to make sure that you have all these things solidified. And then phase six, buying a 64 unit building. Your systems now have to evolve. When you have this many units, when you have over 100 units, you have to make sure that your systems are evolving over time. You can't have the same systems as your duplex and your fourplex. You're going to have to evolve these systems over time so that the whole entire business is thriving.

Starting point is 00:26:30 And now you're in the realm where the bigger players are looking. So once you get over that 50 unit mark, the bigger players start to look within that range. Now, some of them won't go anything less than 300 units. But a lot of them start to look in this range, especially if there's not a lot of deals out there.

Starting point is 00:26:45 So now you're going to start playing with some different players. There are going to be different folks involved, hedge funds. Hedge funds are always involved with these multifamily properties, especially with single family houses as well. But you're going to have a lot more different things happening at this level. And you're going to know what you're doing at this point if you are still in business and still profitable as you go through this process.

Starting point is 00:27:04 And then your deals are going to become more complex because there's a lot more money at stake here. Millions and millions and millions of dollars are being spent buying these properties. There's a lot of different things at stake that you're going to have to find more complex deals. Maybe you do seller financing. Maybe you have more complex financing deals to get the property. Maybe you do syndicates. There's a lot of things going on here where you can think through, hey, where am I going to get this cash? Do I want to raise money with investors?

Starting point is 00:27:28 Do I want to do this on my own? Can I get a bank loan? What are all the things that you qualify for and figuring out the financials is a harder part at this level? And then phase seven, you can take this as far as you want to go. You can keep doing this over and over and over again. Or you can stay at the same level you're at, enjoy your life, put the systems into place

Starting point is 00:27:45 and enjoy that cash flow for the rest of your life. So this is a way that I'm showing you, in six years right here, you have well over 100 units. And you could scale this as much as you want. Now, if you don't do this in six years and you aspire to do that, hey, just trying to aspire to do it and getting you halfway there is absolutely amazing. So this is something that if you don't want to wait 30 years to retire, we talk about our minimum investment goals of at least getting to that minimum investment goals, so you can have

Starting point is 00:28:11 a multi-million dollar portfolio. If that's something you're not interested in doing, this is a wealth accelerator. This is a way to accelerate your wealth within real estate by following this blueprint. Because if you want to scale quickly in real estate, you want to retire really fast. this is one way to do it and you can do it in a safe, controlled manner as long as you understand what you're doing and get that education portion right now. You're going to learn a lot as you get your first property. So it doesn't mean that that first duplex is going to make or break you.

Starting point is 00:28:40 But understanding what you're doing early on is going to change everything for you because as you get to experience here, you're going to see each experience is going to be more and more challenges that are going to come involved. So listen, I hope you guys enjoyed this episode on the Blueprint. I'm laying out for you here on how to scale up in real estate. If you have any questions, hit me up on Instagram or TikTok at Master MoneyCone. If you enjoy some of these real estate episodes, let me know as well. Shoot me a DM and let me know.

Starting point is 00:29:08 And don't forget, please leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify or whatever podcast player you listen to. Please leave us a review because it is absolutely amazing that we can spread this message that people can build wealth. Anybody can build wealth. That's what we truly believe. and that's what's helping spread this message. So thank you guys so much for doing that.

Starting point is 00:29:28 I truly appreciate each and every one of you. You guys mean the world to me. You guys don't understand how much you mean to me and I want to change lives together as we go through this process. And then don't forget to check us out on YouTube as well at Master Money on YouTube. Thank you guys so much

Starting point is 00:29:44 and we'll see you on the next episode.

The Personal Finance Podcast - The Guide To Scaling in Real Estate Quickly!

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