The Personal Finance Podcast - The Hidden Emotions Sabotaging Your Finances with Jade Warshaw

Episode Date: December 24, 2025

In this episode of The Personal Finance Podcast, Andrew sits down with Jade Warshaw to discuss her new book "What No One Tells You About Money," revealing how she paid off $460,000 in debt, why money is emotional not mathematical, and the hidden emotions like frustration, shame, fear, and envy that sabotage financial progress, plus the critical shift someone needs to make right now if they feel stuck or overwhelmed. Join the community built to help you master your money, stay accountable, and reach financial freedom. 👉 Join Master Money Academy today! Listen to The Business Show here. Join The Master Money Newsletter where you will become smarter with your money in 5 minutes or less per week Here! Partner Deals Indeed: Start hiring NOW with a SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLAR SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to upgrade your job post at Indeed.com/personalfinance Get 50% Off Monarch, the all-in-one financial tool at www.monarch.com/PFP Chime: Start your credit journey with Chime. Sign-up takes only two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/  DELL: Get a new Dell AI PC starting at $749.99, at Dell.com/ai-pc. Policy Genius:  Go to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quote. Shopify: Shopify makes it so easy to sell. Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/pfp Wayfair: Shop outdoor furniture, grills, lawn games, and WAY more for WAY less Plaud AI https://www.plaud.ai/ — an AI wearable gadget that takes notes of meetings and calls. With Plaud, you don’t have to take notes and make summaries anymore. DeleteMe: Go to https://joindeleteme.com/PFP20/ and Use Promo Code PFP for 20% off!   Connect with Jade Warshaw: Instagram Books: What No One Tells You About Money Money’s Not a Math Problem  Connect With Andrew on Social Media: Instagram TikTok Twitter Master Money Website Master Money Youtube Channel Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Local news is in decline across Canada, and this is bad news for all of us. With less local news, noise, rumors, and misinformation fill the void, and it gets harder to separate truth from fiction. That's why CBC News is putting more journalists in more places across Canada, reporting on the ground from where you live, telling the stories that matter to all of us, because local news is big news. Choose news, not noise.

CBC News. Okay, when I sell my business, I want the best tax and investment advice. I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my head of office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center.

Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. So you and I both know anything worth having is worth the sacrifice to get it, right? I can't think of a time in life where you just get something and you don't have to give anything in return, right? What they wanted to do was set up some sort of bill payment, some sort of scheduled pay, and I knew I didn't have the money. And so I'm just putting it off, putting it off. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. And it was like, all right, that's it. That's it. Something needs to change here.

Wait a second. Why can't I breathe? Why am I drowning in debt? Why does it feel so difficult just to handle my groceries and pay for my gas? So even though you didn't cause it, it's your responsibility a lot of times to deal with it. And that is tough. That is emotional. So Jade, welcome to the personal finance podcast.

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be on. I'm excited to go through your book here and kind of talk about some of the topics that you're talking through because this is something that we talk about a ton on this show is kind of the emotional side of investing. but in addition, just making sure that you can kind of control your emotions and understand why you're feeling the way that you do about money. I think this is 80 to 90 percent of your finances, just understanding your emotions surrounding money and why you kind of do what you do. So what was the moment when you started to write this book that you realized that this book needed to exist?

Well, it was before I started writing it honestly that I knew it needed to exist because it was so heavily based on my husband and I's story of paying off debt in that long journey. I think anybody who's ever locked into something that requires kind of endurance and perseverance, you know how tough that battle is. It's not just the practical things that you have to do day to day, but it's the emotional side of it that you have to endure when everything inside you is telling you to stop or everything inside of you is telling you, this is too much, this is uncomfortable. I think we've all felt that. And when it comes to money, you know, it's par for the course. And so knowing that and seeing how people get so hung up on the numbers financially, I knew it was important to write this book because there is an emotional side to money that we often forget about.

And I remember early on in my financial journey, I would go through the numbers. I was looking at the spreadsheets and I was going across the board and I was kind of thinking through, okay, well, I feel like I'm doing everything right. I feel like I'm doing the right things to move the dial forward, but it seems like I'm still stuck. I don't really know what I need to be doing next. Why do you think so many people feel that way? They feel like, you know, they're doing the right things, but they still feel stuck with their finances. It's likely because they're not hitting a level of sacrifice or possibly they are and when they felt that they retreated back into a place of comfort. So you and I both know anything worth having is worth the sacrifice to get it, right? I can't think of a time in life where you just

get something and you don't have to give anything in return, right? Even if you're pregnant, you have to carry the baby for nine months. You have to go through, you know, terrible delivery pains and then you get the thing that you wanted so bad, a little bitty baby, right? So that's the way life is. You have to sacrifice something to get that really amazing thing that you want. And I think oftentimes people don't want to go through that because change requires change and sacrifice is tough and endurance is not fun. And so when we feel that, we start to retreat. Money is no different, right? If I say to somebody today, hey, you're interested in investing, you're going to have to find the margin in order to do that. Likely, you're going to have to cut something in your budget. Maybe this year

your family doesn't go on vacation. Maybe this year instead of, you know, spending your money, in a way that you like, you're going to spend your money in a way that feels less gratuitous in the moment. Excuse me. And so that's not fun. And a lot of times our emotions act up and go, wait a minute, but I work so hard. I should be able to do exactly what I want. And that's where we face a problem. And I remember, you know, that is exactly right. And I think overall, you know, there's a lot of folks out there who kind of hit this moment or they hit this breaking point. And this is unfortunate for a lot of us with our money. But I remember this point in time, you know, when I was early on, I was living paycheck to paycheck when I got my first.

job and I went to go fill up my tank of gas in my car and I didn't have enough money to fill up my tank of gas. And that was the moment for me where I said to myself, I was frustrated and I was angry at myself. I was like, I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to figure out what I need to do next. And you talk about in the book that you had this breaking point where you were in $460,000 worth of debt and you know, you had this emotional breaking point that you kind of led to this. And I think a lot of people go through this. So can you kind of talk about what that was and what that felt like. Yeah, sure. So at that point, my husband and I had decided that we knew that we were in debt. We knew we needed a plan to get out of it. And we had started walking a plan that's pretty popular.

A lot of you have probably heard of the baby steps. So seven steps, Dave Ramsey made it popular. And we said, okay, we're going to do that. In about a year and a half in, we're closer to two years in. It just, we hit this wall of feeling like we were taking two steps forward, one step back. And you know that feeling. It's just so frustrating. It feels like you're doing all this effort, but your results aren't matching your effort. And when that happens, you want to throw your hands up. And I remember specifically waking up that morning. And the first thing I woke up to was a debt collector calling my phone. I call it 1-800 pay me. So 1-800 pay me is blowing up my line. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it just felt like every five minutes, every 10 minutes, you hear that and I'd hit it,

you know, to ignore it, save it for another day because I knew what they wanted to do was set up some sort of bill payment, some sort of scheduled pay. And I knew I didn't have the money. And so I'm just putting it off, putting it off. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore. And it was like, all right, that's it. That's it. Something needs to change here. And I remember telling my husband, you know, we were driving down the road. And I remember telling him to pull the car over because I just had enough. And after he pulled the car over, you know, I'm yelling expletives and, you know, telling him how everything we're doing sucks and nothing's working and all this. And after the emotions calmed down, we were able to kind of see clearly and go, well, what do we really think's going on here? Because something's happening.

the laws of nature tell you that if you make, you know, if you do the right things, you should be making a certain level of progress. So if that's not happening, something must be the matter. And so I remember as kind of going through with a fine tooth comb and saying, what is it that this plan that we're working is telling us to do? And then what is it that we're actually doing? Because how many times do we become incongruent with the things that we're doing versus the things we say we want to do, right? And so when we did that, we realized, okay, there are some, There are some holes in our efforts. And this is just practically speaking.

Number one, the plan told us that we were supposed to make minimum payments on all the debt and then take whatever extra and throw it on the smallest debt. Simple enough. But somewhere along the line, we decided we were smarter than that, in quotes. And we decided, hey, we don't need to pay minimum payments. Let's just take all our money and throw it on the smallest debt. We'll go faster like that, right? And so you kind of talk yourself out of something that millions of people have done,

a time-tested plan thinking you're smart. harder than it. And that usually doesn't work, right? And so it didn't work for us. That's why we were frustrated. Another reason we were frustrated is we didn't have enough money saved off to the side. So whenever something came up, it was like the house was burning down, right? Because there was just no money saved. So all those things, sometimes you have to stop and go, what am I doing wrong? My life shouldn't feel this chaotic. My life shouldn't feel this crazy. My emotion shouldn't be going like this. Something must be the matter. And when we did that, we were able to close those gaps. And then our frustration, I mean, it minimized greatly because we actually started doing things the right way instead of the wrong way.

And I think the moment you talked about there is really, really important for a lot of listeners just to understand is that when you are living in this paycheck to paycheck cycle or you have a negative net worth and you're going backwards, a lot of times, you get so, I just remember that feeling. You're so frustrated. You're so angry. And all of a sudden, you said the dust kind of needed to settle. And when the dust settled and you got past those emotions and realized, I need to figure out. out what actions I need to take in order to conquer this, to fix this, to make this better. And I think overall, most people, once they realize how emotional money is, they can start to really think in that way. And so what emotion do you see is holding most people back? Because a lot of

people think money is mathematics. It is just, you know, the analytics. It's optimization. But instead, truthfully, in your book talks about this, it is emotional. So what emotion do you think is holding most people back? You know, I go through a plethora of them in the book. The first one we just talked about, obviously, frustration. I think probably fear is one of the ones that we come up against the most simply because there's so many different types of fear. I know with me, there was a fear of change, and then there's this fear of the unknown, and there's this fear of judgment, and there's this fear of failure. There are so many layers of fear that we face with money. I can tell you from my end, as a person who helps and coaches people with their money,

the thing I find the most is just a fear of the unknown. So I'm always telling people about this promised land that they can make it to if they just do these few things with their money, right? And it sounds simple enough, but then when that person goes home later and maybe they talk to their spouse or they're just in their car driving home thinking about what I just said, they realize, wait a second, the thing she's talking about I've never actually seen before. I've never actually accomplished this. Do I know anybody who's done what she's talking about? And very quickly, there's a fear of, is this true? Is this right? Is this possible? I, this is an unknown territory for me. So putting it in real context, I tell people all the time,

hey, your car note is the biggest thing that's keeping you broke, paying $700, 800 bucks a month, and then you're wondering why you can't invest. You're wondering why you don't have money for your kids' college. You're wondering why you're living paycheck to paycheck, right? And so I'm always telling folks, hey, you need to pay off your car or, you know, trade it in and get a less expensive cash car. And when I say that, it's like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And then they, leave and go, wait a minute, does that make sense? Do I know anybody who drives a paid off car? Do I know anybody who pays cash for cars? Have I seen anybody driving a clunker lately? You know what I mean? All those unknown things start to sink in. Do I know anybody who's ever told me that they became a

millionaire because they invested their car note? Right. They're running all these scenarios through their head and they're going, wait, this is an unknown territory. I want to back up because I don't know about this. Meanwhile, the person who's telling you it does know, it's coming from experience, they're telling you, hey, if you just do these few things, here's what's on the other side. And so I understand the fear, but there's part of it where we have to learn to trust the process, and we have to learn to say there's going to be people in life who have done things that we haven't done yet. And there's going to be people who are trying to grab our hand and say, hey, come, it's this way. Like, if you want to get to financial success, you got to go this

way. And we're going to have to cross through some terrain that's unfamiliar for us. You know, we're going to have to go in places that are uncomfortable for us, but the hard part is the body loves comfort, right? The body seeks it. And so the minute we get into those areas that are like, wait a minute, I've never invested this much of my paycheck before this feels crazy. Or wait a minute, Jade, I'm used to having this lump of savings. You're telling me to take that and pay off my debt. Are you crazy? Yeah, you're going to feel fear. You're going to feel like that's unknown. And that's okay. It's just about recognizing it for what it is instead of just operating moment to moment and not really understanding what's causing you to make the choices that you're making.

It's so true. And so many conversations with people that I have, they have that fear. They have that fear of a lot of times I see it just with like you're saying, you know, doing some of the things that most people don't do. The Jones next door, they have the Mercedes or whatever other car they have. And so driving the clunker and kind of paying cash for cars and making sure that you're taking the right steps towards that kind of feels unknown. Another big one is investing where a lot of folks out there, you know, they've never tried investing. They're not sure really what the market is. And I found kind of two things to help people overcome this is one, experience, just trying, even on a small scale, taking a small bet and kind of getting started investing in whatever way, shape, or form

you want to. But two, is that financial education. Just trying to educate yourself more, get you more comfortable kind of with what's going on. To listen to podcasts, YouTube channels, you're reading books like Jade's book here is just so incredibly powerful to help you get more comfortable to overcome some of those fears. And it takes a little bit of time, but if you put that time in, it really does help you overcome some of that stuff. A lot of people, when they feel stuck, what is the number one feeling they feel? I remember feeling this myself was frustration. And frustration can turn into anger. And I think this is one thing a lot of people feel when they really get started with their finances and or if they've just never

been good with money whatsoever. So why do you think that happens and why can anger kind of sabotage people's finances? I mean, I can speak to it from the perspective that, you know, that I faced it. and the folks I talk to and coach on a daily basis. And a lot of times what I think it boils down to, Andrew, is we're kind of sold this dream that, hey, go to college. If you can't afford the college, there's a loan for that, right? And then get your degree and, you know, you've worked hard. You deserve that new car. And I know you can't pay cash, but there's a loan for that too.

And then get married and, you know, you and your spouse, you've all worked hard. You deserve that house. It doesn't matter if the payments, 50% of your take home. you deserve it. And there's a loan for that, right? And you take the loans and you do the things that it seems culture is telling you to do. And then you look up and you're like, wait a second, why can't I breathe? Why am I drowning in debt? Why does it feel so difficult just to handle my groceries and pay for my gas? And like you said, invest a little for the future. I feel like there's nothing left. There's nothing left over. And so there's just kind of like that feeling of disenchantedness that you look around and say, I feel like I did everything right. Why am I still so strapped? And I think a lot of us feel that, especially now we have an affordability crisis. You know, inflation is crazy. The real estate market is crazy. Just in general, the economic situation for many of us is crazy. Wages aren't keeping up. And so people feel like this is unfair. These are a lot of external circumstances, things that are happening out there. I didn't cause it.

I didn't do it. And yet here it is in my lap affecting my day to day. It's affecting everything and it's unfair. And that quickly goes from an unfair situation to us feeling angry about it. And the thing with anger is that anger wants justice, right? That's really what it is. When you're angry about something, it simply means something's been done wrong and it needs to be made right. That's what you want. And so a lot of times, because a lot of it feels external and many, much of it is, I'm not saying that's not. But then we look out there and go, well, they need to fix it. If it's a governmental problem, then the government needs to make my money right. If it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, it's the student loans did, the student loans need to make it right. If my parents ruined my credit,

my parents need to make it right. But the hard part about that is we can't control them, right? And so it is unfair. I will never tell you it's not. It is unfair. That's very frustrating. That's very angering. But the problem is when we wait around and we're just shaking our fists at the air, hoping something will happen, much of the time nothing does happen. And we spend a lot of wasted time waiting for somebody else to clean up a mess that maybe they did make. But ultimately, it's. It's our life, and we're the only one that gets to, you know, make change in our life. So even though you didn't cause it, it's your responsibility a lot of times to deal with it. And that is tough.

That is emotional. But again, getting to that point where we can kind of accept the hand we've been dealt, accept the situation we're in and say, well, there's always something that I can do to better my situation. Instead of wasting all my time thinking about them and what they did or didn't do, let me think about me and what I can do next. And so that's really what I talk about in the book is making that transition and putting some motivation behind your anger, not just letting it be, I'm going to call the bank and cuss them out, right? Like, we've all been there.

It doesn't really do anything. So can we put some motivation behind it? Can we target it at something specific so that we can go and ourselves get the justice that it is that we're looking for? And you really have to train your brain to do this. Like sometimes a lot of external factors will happen to you. And it is really frustrating. it causes a lot of anger, but really focusing on the things that you can control is the ultimate goal, especially when it comes to your money, because there's nothing else you can do. You have to

focus on only the things that you can control. And I remember just kind of remembering and saying this to myself over and over and over again, okay, let's focus on the things that I can control. What can I control in this situation and in this scenario? And I'm going to attack those things. And it really did change my entire life just by focusing on those things that I can control. So a lot of people, when they get frustrated and angry, you know, they are going through all these different financial situations. And all of a sudden, you know, maybe they're budgeting every single month and they don't have a perfect month. And I've seen so many people, like I say this all the time, I've never had a perfect month budgeting in my entire life. And so what you got to do is just got to

move on to the next month and move on. There's probably 12 Amazon boxes at my door right now. But all, all in all, it's one of those things where you just got to move on and get to the next month. Roll with the punches and keep it going. But a lot of people feel shame about this kind of stuff. And so why is shame just such a hard thing for us to overcome in our finances? And how do people overcome that? You know, shame is a tough emotion. And it's kind of it's unraveling that happens with your money. I kind of explain it like this in the book, probably the first level, before we even get to the shame, the first level that we usually kind of experience is kind of like a regret, a buyer's remorse or regret, ah, I shouldn't have bought that. Like, what would make me, you know,

buy that dress that was too expensive. Oh, I bought that Louis bag. What was I thinking? Right? We've all had that moment where we spent money and it just, it didn't hit right later on. We knew it was dumb. Then, and it's kind of like you can deal with it, move on. You kind of learn from it. Then there's, so that's kind of like regret, that kind of entry level layer. Then after that, we kind of hit a level of guilt. Guilt usually happens when someone else is in the mix. You know, it's kind of like, I did this thing. I know it was bad, but what's really making me feel bad, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, affecting my daughter or I really hated it. It's affecting my boyfriend that I did this. And it's kind of like when our choices not only have a negative impact on us, but then turn around and have a negative

impact on somebody else financially, that's when we feel like, oh, this feels terrible. I'm so guilty. Then the next layer on down is what you talked about, Andrew, where that shame hits, where when we've not dealt with the guilt, we've not dealt with the regret, we've let it hang around and hang around and hang around. And now it's starting to affect how we view ourselves as a person. And so no longer is it, oh my gosh, I co-signed for that car and now I'm having to pay for it. My wife is having to pay for it. I'm so frustrated. Now it's, I'm the reason that we're not getting ahead. Right. I'm the financial problem. I'm the mistake. I'm the reason. It's when you take on a mistake as your own identity. And shame is so, so sneaky in that way, because a lot of times you don't even realize it's happened. And I remember when

my husband and I were in the middle of paying off almost half a million dollars of debt, I used to hear him, Because for our situation, my husband, he had $280,000 of student loans. Those came in from his side of the relationship. And he always felt it started out as guilt. I feel bad about this because here I am. I took out these student loans. And now Jade is having to help me pay them off. And now Jade is having to, you know, we're holding back a family because we're trying

to get this financial thing, right? And I can understand that. But then what I started to notice is he would say things like, man, I'm just, I'm just holding us back. Or I'm the reason we can't get ahead. or because of me. And I had to call it out. My husband's name is Sam. I said, listen, Sam. I said, you got to stop that. Because the choice, the choice to make a, you know, to have a bad choice, that's human.

Like, everybody makes bad choices. And that's okay. We can gang up against the problem. If we can say, well, the problem is the debt. The problem is the student loans. The problem is the car payment. The problem is a bad business plan. If we can point to that, then we can fight it together. But if somebody is wearing it as their own identity, I'm the problem. Well, now suddenly there are issues in the relationship. So that's why it's so important to be able to decouple yourself from the mistake that you made. And as trite as it might sound, the only way to do that is to forgive yourself. And that's what I talk about in the book.

So many of us, we do things financially and we just keep it around. We wear it. We don't take the time to go, man, that was a mistake. I shouldn't have done that. I'm not the mistake. I need to let that go. I need to forgive myself. And I talk about some practical ways to do that in the book that really have helped me and have helped the folks that I work with. But we kind of forget that there are these deeper emotional struggles when it comes to money. And so hopefully this is a good reminder for anybody if they need to take a closer look at that.

Exactly. And I think most people listening right now, you've probably already felt some of these emotions that we've talked about. You probably felt a lot of these different things and probably have not examined them fully in terms of how this is impacting your dollars, but also, your everyday life. Because we talk about money, money is just the tool. It's the tool to get you what you want out of life. And really, if you can examine some of these things, you're going to realize, oh, I can make a change. I can make a shift. I can focus on what I can control. And this is really, really going to help you. Because here's another big thing is a lot of people, and you talk about this in the book, a lot of people have these hidden beliefs. And a lot of this has to do with your

upbringing or, you know, how you were brought up with money or different circumstances that you've gone through throughout your life, where you have these ingrained beliefs in your brain when it comes to money. I see so many of these different beliefs when I come across, you know, having conversations with people. And I think it's just fascinating to see how different upbringings actually cause people to have these different beliefs. But what are some of the common belief patterns that you see people have? Oh, boy. It runs the gamut. I mean, probably one of the biggest things is the impossibility that it is to build wealth, to become a millionaire. A lot of people think that that is unreachable, depending on, you know, your background culturally, depending on your economic

background, how you grew up, the people around you, that affects how we see our life and how we see possibilities. So that's a big one that I see. Paying off debt. A lot of people go, oh my gosh, Jade, I'm with you on paying off the credit card debt. I'm with you, maybe I'm paying off the car, but paying off student loans, that's impossible, right? So I would say that those two are big ones. You know, I'll tell you another big one that is really interesting to me is I always tell folks that they don't need a credit score. I, you know, I haven't had a credit score in years. And they go, that's crazy, Jade. How can you live without a credit score? And I say, well, for me, I realized a long time ago I didn't want to deal with debt because it wasn't getting me anywhere. And so I thought, well,

nothing's better than just using my own cash. I don't care about a credit score because it's just a measure of debt anyway. So I'm letting my credit score go. And they're like, that's crazy. How can you buy a house? I'm like, I bought it with a zero credit score. It's a, you can't do that. And so a lot of it simply is just, I say it in the book, you know, what informs our mind? It's kind of like chat GPD. You know, chat GPD, it doesn't create any new content. It just takes what's already there and spits it out to you. And a lot of times that's the way our minds work. Our minds run on what we've, what we've already seen, what we've seen happen to other people and what we've heard. And so every once in a while, something pops in that was never in the system, right? Somebody tells you, hey, did you know that

if you just invested $500 a month for 30 years, you could be a millionaire? What? That's impossible. That was not in my system before. And it's kind of like sometimes you have to run these things out so that you can actually see, is it true or not? We can't just go with our first reaction of, that can't work. That's impossible. That's not true. We have to do a little bit of due diligence and say, well, is it true? Maybe it's just something I didn't know. Maybe it's, this is new information. Maybe I need to run this out a little bit. And what I found, is that if you take the time and really show people and explain it and explain the numbers, then it's like, okay, so logically we've proven that this can happen. Now let's talk about your

beliefs and why that's keeping you back and how we can kind of start to run that out. And so, yeah, credit score, building wealth, paying off debt, all possible. I love that. And I think one of my favorite studies ever on millionaires is the study that you guys did at Ramsey Solutions, where you surveyed those 10,000 millionaires. And we referenced this all the time because it's just so cool to see how those folks actually became millionaires. I mean, that most of them did it through their 401k. It was just so cool to kind of watch that most of them did not inherit money. That's right. A lot of people just have these beliefs where they think that, you know, to become a millionaire, you have to do all these different things. No, anybody in this life,

and this is what we truly believe here is anybody can become a millionaire. They just kind of know the next step to take. And I think overall, that's why it's just such a powerful message. And why you talk about this in the book, too, is money is like running a marathon. And it's like, you know, there's this long-term thing that we need to make sure that we have a plan set in place as we start to run this marathon. So what does financial endurance look like in everyday life to you? Yeah. What you're talking about here is the answer to all of this, right? We're talking about frustration and anger and fear and guilt. And at the end of the day, there's just this acceptance of the process that has to take place. And I love that marathon analogy because

not only is it reminding us that there's an endurance there, but it's reminding us that there's a process part of it. So I remember when I decided I wanted to run a marathon, which I was a my husband and I did last year, it was the culmination of years of finally making this choice. It was this thing that was in the back of my head for a decade. You should run a marathon. This would be a good idea. But every time, Andrew, there were reasons that I didn't do it. Oh, it's too hot. It's going to take too much time. It's expensive. I'm not in great shape right now. You know, maybe in a couple months when things calm down. There's always something that wants, you know, you to not do it. And finally, I hit my 40th birthday. And I was like, man, it's an hour.

never because the truth is if there was an optimal time to do this is already passed right because now i got two kids i'm 40 years old let's just do this it's now or never and i had to accept that there were going to be things that we're going to make this tough that we're going to be uncomfortable and i was right you know when you run a marathon you're you're saying ahead of time hey this is going to be at least eight to 10 weeks or more of training right you could be in that thing for three months training and every day gets progressively more difficult, right? That's the truth. The truth is you can't control the weather.

Some days you're going to be out there in the rain, and some days it's going to be, you know, cold or some days it's going to be really hot whatever time of year you run. Your hamstring's going to hurt, you know, all of these things. And you're supposed to run regardless. And money is the same way. Some days you're going to feel it. Other days you're not. Some days you're going to get your paycheck and you can't wait, you know, to open up your

Charles Schwab account, right? And other days you're going to get your paycheck and you're just like, man, I don't want to do any of that. I just want to buy a new couch or, you know, I want to do what I want to do. And then there's going to be times where you feel really good about the fact that you and your spouse said, we're going to pay off this debt together, even though it's mostly their debt. And you're happy to make those transfers. And then there's going to be days where you're like, I don't know why, but this is just not hitting right. And I'm feeling really frustrated that I have to put my hard earned money over here to pay off a debt that I didn't even create, right?

that's the raw and the real of the whole situation. And one of the other things I learned about the marathon is that it's more than just having the head knowledge. Like, I know I got to wake up. I know I have to run, you know, 12 miles today. I know I got to, you know, wear the right clothes, all that stuff. But then there's kind of the habit side of it and there's putting the systems into place. Like we all learned from James Clear atomic habits, those systems matter so much. And it's the same thing with money.

can we put the right systems in place so that when our emotions act up, we still do the right thing. You know, when it was time for me to run, I would lay my clothes out at night. I would put my protein powder, my amino acids, all my electrolytes. I would put all that stuff right there so there was no getting past the fact that today I have to run. I'd fill my water bottles up ahead of time. It's the same thing with money. Can you go ahead and automate that transfer? Can you go ahead and set an alarm in your phone to check in with your budget?

Can you go ahead and do those things? can you pack your lunch every day and just keep it in the refrigerator, make it the night before. So it's there. You wake up in the morning. All you have to do is grab it so you don't go to lunch every day and spend your margin on McDonald's, right? Those are the things that we need to be doing. It's the process. And if we can accept the process, we can win. Exactly. And let me piggy back off your marathon example, because in 2012, I ran the New York Marathon. And I decided, this was when I was in college. And I decided, you know what, I'm going to run this marathon. And weeks were coming up to the marathon. I didn't train. didn't train, it got closer and closer and closer, still didn't train. And somebody gave me like a ticket to join the New York Marathon. So I finally did it. I started the marathon without training

whatsoever and kind of started to go on and finish the marathon. I told myself, hey, this all became a mental game. Like, I'm not going to stop. If I stop, I'm not going to be able to go again. So I went all the way through, finish the marathon. And for four days after, I hardly could walk whatsoever. And this is because I didn't have a plan in place. And you're talking about the system and plan in place when you go on this journey and when you have this marathon in life is really, really important. Otherwise, you're going to get knocked out and you're going to get laid up. And so you got to make sure that you have that plan in place. And like you said, I love you talking about automation, because automation helps me so much. It removes my willpower from that equation and just allows me to

invest. It allows me to save in my emergency fund. It allows me to save in my sinking funds. It just kind of gets the ball rolling. So I don't have to think about it anymore. I don't have to rely on my willpower anymore. Those are the best systems to have in place. And I think it's so powerful to utilize that example. I remember when I needed to hire someone, but finding the right person quickly felt impossible. And if you've ever been there, you know how stressful this can be. That's where Indeed comes in. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Instead of struggling to get your job post noticed, Indeed's sponsor jobs help you stand out and hire faster. Your post jumps up to the top of the page, making sure it reaches the right candidates.

And it makes a huge difference. Sponsored jobs on Indeed get 45% more applications than non-sponsored ones. and there's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash personal finance. Just go to Indeed.com slash personal finance right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash personal finance. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, indeed is all you need. So lately, I've been noticing how fast things are changing. at home. The kids are growing like crazy, clothes don't fit anymore, and routines are changing. And it just hits you. Life is expanding. And when your life grows, your responsibility grows with it.

That's something I've been thinking about more this spring, making sure the safety net we have in place actually matches the life that we're building. And that's where PolicyGenius comes in. PolicyGenius is an insurance company. They're an online marketplace that helps you compare life insurance quotes from some of the top insurers in America, all in one place for free. and their licensed team works for you, not the insurance companies. So they help you find the right coverage for your situation without all the guesswork. And they walk you through everything. Answer your questions, handle the paperwork, and help you get the coverage that actually fits your life today.

And where it's going. So protect your family with a policy that grows with your life. With PolicyGenius, you can see if you can find 20-year life insurance policies, starting at just $276 a year for $1 million of coverage. Head to PolicyGenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you can save. That's PolicyGenius.com. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower.

Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and meat. milk. Habaniero, more like habanier yes. Save the everyday with Amazon. Need a vehicle that isn't afraid to make a splash? That's the Volkswagen Taos. Capable and confident, the Volkswagen Taos is fit for everyday life, nimble in traffic, agile and tight spots, and still spacious enough for weekend getaways. While available 4-motion all-wheel drive gives confidence in rain and snow. The capable Taos, you deserve more confidence. Visit vw.ca to learn more. SUVW, German engineered for all.

One thing I see a lot, and this is really, really big, especially obviously in this day and age where we have social media everywhere, and we have our neighbors kind of overextending themselves and going into deeper into debt, but it's financial envy. And a lot of people are envious of what other people have and or are doing.

They're going on these vacations, all these other things. So how do people kind of think through, how can they kind of avoid this comparison trap with the people? And what are some steps that you took to do the same thing? Yeah, financial envy is, it's kind of an ugly thing. You know, we've all experienced it. It's that feeling that it's really hard for you to celebrate other people, right? We've all been there. Somebody walks into the office or maybe your friend, you know, comes in, you know, comes over and is telling, oh my gosh, I just got a promotion or, you know, your sister's showing you her new car. And it's very hard for you inwardly to celebrate them. You're trying to. You're trying to. like through a fake smile go, oh, wow, great, right? And you can't help the tone. It kind of sounds a little, you know, not very nice. And it's just like, oh, you have a hard time celebrating people. Or maybe you're that person who, you know, you see somebody post a win on social media and you're the person who kind of slides in the comments and you're like, oh, well, must be nice. And you're making these comments,

it's like, no, don't troll them. Don't troll them. Just let them celebrate. And I get it. You know, I remember specifically many times when Sam and I were going through, you know, paying off our debt. We were sacrificing at such a high level that it was hard because you see people seemingly doing whatever it is they want to do with money. Seems like they're winning with money. And what's really happening is you're feeling behind. You're feeling stuck. You're feeling less than. And instead of dealing with that, it comes out as, oh, well, if I had a spouse who made that much money, I'd be doing that too. And you say these kind of snide kind of must be nice type comments. And it's tough. It's tricky. And so what I tell folks to do, I'm like, hey, number one, let's recognize the problem, which is the problem is you're feeling insecure. That's the problem. It doesn't have anything to do with them. They're winning. They're over there eating a sandwich, celebrating having a glass of champagne. You're the one who has got the problem. So that's thing one. And then thing number two is, well, what's really under the surface? Under the surface, you feel like you're behind. You feel like they have something that you wish you had,

feel like you should have. And if that's the case, can we ask them how they got it? Can we just, can we be more curious and less critical? That's really what we're looking at. Can we say, okay, if there's a person at work who left the job, they quit and they started their own business and they're being successful and you're still at the office and you're feeling jealous and you're thinking, man, I should be doing something like that. I know more than they knew anyway, right? Can you call them up and say, hey, let's have some drinks. And then at the drinks, can you say, hey, tell me about how you made your business plan. Tell me about how you found investors.

Tell me about, can we do that? Because that's actually productive, as opposed to you being at home, losing sleep over the fact that that person is successful and you're not. Right? So I think that's the thing. Again, it's that awareness of being aware of your emotions so you can actually pinpoint what it is. because nobody, I think if we stop and realize, oh, I'm being jealous, no one likes that feeling. Right. No one wants to sit with that.

And so most of us, if we just allow us to realize, oh, my gosh, I'm actually envious of them. I'm hating on them. Then we'll go, okay, that needs to stop. What do I need to do instead? So it's just all about that awareness. I love that. And I think having the humility, just to go to someone and have these conversations, ask, you know, kind of what they did.

What are the steps that they took? most people don't have these money conversations or these productivity or career conversations that they could have. And really, you can learn so much more from other people who have actually gone out and done it. And it's just coming there with a humble heart and having conversations with them. I think that is just so powerful. Because they want to answer. They want to tell you what it is, right? They're happy to know. If somebody came up to me today and was like, hey, Jay, I'm investing for the first time. I don't know what to choose. I am so happy to sit with them and go, oh my gosh, yeah, let me help you out, you know. And so even understanding that people want to help, generally successful people

are happy to share some things that they've learned. And so if you're viewing that person as successful, chances are they're going to want to help you get where they got. Exactly. I think that's just such a powerful lesson for sure. For someone right now who's feeling tired, they're feeling frustrated, they're feeling stuck. What would you say to them or what emotional shift do you think they need to make? You know, the hard part is when you're doing something and you have a long time frame, there's a long horizon from when you'll see the end point, whether it's long-term investing, whether it's paying off debt, whether it's saving up for kids college. It can be easy to say, man, this is just taking forever. Like, can't I put it in the microwave? You know, can I make this thing happen faster? And the tendency is to want to take your foot off the gas or possibly give up. And I always tell people, I'm like, the time is going to pass anyway. And that's the exercise that we have to go through all the time in our minds. I remember specifically back in 2008, great recession, right? Everything was coming down. Real estate was crazy. The bubble burst. Gas prices were insane. I don't know if you guys remember that.

And right in the middle of that was when everything was hitting the fan with Sam and I with our debt. And I remember listening to Dave Ramsey on what was then called the Dave Ramsey show. and he was chilling. He was like, man, real estate's so low. I'm just buying up real estate. And I remember specifically being like, how in the world? Like, I remember feeling, and here it is, I felt a level of envy, like jealousy. I was like, this guy, he's not feeling.

Like, I'm in a blender right now. The world is beating me down because I was smacked out. I was in debt. I was smack dab in the middle of all the problems. And I remember him saying, if you position yourself, he said, if you can position and start to do the right things, over time, you will position yourself to fly over the storm. And I remember him saying that, and I remember thinking, yeah, the world is, you know, economics are cyclical. It's always,

there's a good time and then there's a bad time. There's a good time and then there's a bad time. And I remember saying to my husband, Sam, I said, we need to start doing the good things now. Because this time is going to pass and we're going to get out of it. And yeah, we're going to have scars and it's going to be tough. but we're going to get out of it. But the next time this stuff hits the fan, we're going to be ready. And we're going to be flying above the storm and we're going to be looking at everybody else running for their lives, you know, and we're going to go, okay, we're in a safe space. We're not going to be caught up in the tornado like last night. So that to say, the time is going to pass. And so from 2008, time went on. We paid off our debt. We saved up three to six months. And do you want to know what

happened next? 2020. COVID. And in that moment, I was like, man, This is it. This is it. The time is going to pass. And when COVID hit, yes, it was uncomfortable. Yes, our business shut down for a while. And it wasn't fun. But financially, we were okay. Financially, we had positioned ourselves just like Dave said to fly over the storm. And so the moral of the story is the time is going to pass anyway. That 10 years, that 8 years, that 16 years, whatever it is. And you have a choice. You can let that, you can wake up 10 years from now and you can either be the same as you are which is unlikely, you can be worse off, which is you never did anything. So the debt piled up, the interest piled up. You never set aside for retirement and now it's time to stop working.

You don't have anything, right? It can be worse. Or you can get busy now and do the things that you know to do and do them with intensity and do them with perseverance. And you can actually be way better off in 10 years. You can be flying above the storm. You can be exactly where you need to be and people are going to be looking at you going, how did you do it? That's the point. That's what we're trying to get to. And it's such a powerful, it's such a powerful lesson, just looking at this because you have two, like you said, you have choices to either, your choice is either, you know, you can stay exactly where you are today. You can go backwards and or you can make the decision to make a change in your life today. Anybody in this life can build wealth. They just have to know the steps to take in order to do so. And that's why I love, you know, your book is it evaluates the part about money that most people don't think about. And once they realize, that they can control their emotions and control the psychology side of money, it really will absolutely change their life. So, Jade, I want to shift gears here. I want to ask you a couple

of rapid fire questions that we ask a lot of our guests. But the first question, and I'm really excited for your answer on this one, because I am a huge sneaker head as well. So I want to hear your answer to this. What is your favorite Jordan of all time? The ones I'm wearing that day. So today I'm wearing Oh, I love that. Today I'm wearing the Lost and Founds, Jordan won high top. It's whatever I'm wearing for that day. So that's what you've got on today.

I love it. Here's my favorite of all the time. I have it in my background. And as a kid, I always wanted these. It's the Brett 11th, but I always wanted these as a kid because I played basketball throughout like my whole life and finally got them as an adult and overpaid for them. That's okay. It was worth it overall.

So I love that. So the next one is, if you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be? Ooh, if I could tell my younger self one thing, it would be don't take out student loans to like spend on lifestyle. I've seen so many people do that. It is over and over again. So yes, that's a great one for sure. What is the best money advice you've ever received? Best money advice I ever received would have been, yeah, baby steps, pay off your debt.

save up three to six months, invest 15%. Like, if you can do, there's seven steps, but if you can really just do those three, you are above and beyond in life financially. 100%. And it's just knowing those steps, that's how people get to millionaire status over and over again. How do you plan to level up your finances this year?

I've been, we're working to pay off our house. That's kind of the goal. So we'll see. Real estate is expensive. Not taking out any of those 50-year mortgages coming out. So just don't do it. Just say no. Yeah, exactly.

And the last one is my favorite one, and it's one that we get different answers every single time. But what does wealth mean to you? Oh, for me in this season, I don't think there's anything more time. I'm a big one. Like, wealth is time. Like, if you can buy your time back, that's what matters. I've got young kids at home.

So if you can get to the point where you're like, I do what I want to do because I want to do it and I do it on my time. that to me, there's nothing better than that because money is great. Like, it's great to go to a job and make money and do all that. But if you're taking time away from your family, you're always feeling it. So setting yourself up to be able to do what it is that you really want to do on the time that you want to do it. Man, wealth is time. Yeah, 100%. And I cannot stress anybody out there who is, you know, listening and they either want to start a family or have a family eventually. Getting that time back is so incredibly powerful. I have a six, four, and one year old. And it's just everything to have that freedom and flexibility. So 100%. Absolutely. That is absolutely massive. Jay, thank you so much for coming on today. Where can people find out more about you, your book, and everything else you have going on? Yeah, thanks for having me. If you're looking for the book, you can find it at Ramsey Solutions.com slash store.

Obviously, it's anywhere nice books are sold, Barnes & Noble, Amazon, it's all there at Target.com. And then if you're looking for me, I'm always on Instagram. So just find me, Jade Warshaw on Instagram. It's actually me running the page. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much again for coming on. We truly appreciate and can't wait to have you back. one day. All right. Thank you so much. Take care.

Rosen lasagna, medium power. 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play. Feel the fun with Play Ojo. The online casino with all the latest slot and live casino games. What you win is yours to keep with no wagering requirements. Instant payouts and no minimum withdraws. Hey, I just won. Woohoo. Feel the fun. Play Ojo. Honey, forget about the lasagna. Let's celebrate. 19 plus Ontario. Please play responsibly. Concerned about your gambling or that if someone close to you. Call 186. 531-2,600, or visit conexonterio.ca.