The Personal Finance Podcast - Why You Should Negotiate Every Bill With Nicole Lapin

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Starting point is 00:00:56 Find your advisor at IG Private Wealth.com. On this episode of the personal finance podcast, we're going to talk to Nicole Lapin about why and how you should negotiate every single bill. What's up, everybody, and welcome to the personal finance podcast. I'm your host, Andrew, founder of mastermuddy.com. And today on the personal finance podcast, we're going to be talking to Nicole Lapin about how and why you should be negotiating every single bill that you have. If you have any questions, hit me up on. on Instagram, TikTok, at Master Money Co. And follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever podcast player, you love listening to this podcast. If you want to hop out the show, leave a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcast.

Starting point is 00:02:02 So today we're going to be talking to Nicole about how to negotiate a bunch of things, from negotiating your rent, to negotiating your salary, to being able to negotiate the APR on your credit cards, to a bunch of other different bills that you should be actively negotiating over time. And Nicole is the host of the Money Rehab podcast. And she has a daily podcast where she talks through a lot of this stuff.

Starting point is 00:02:23 And in addition, she's been on CNN, Bloomberg, MSNBC, CNBC, and as an author of a bunch of different books as well that we will all link up down below. So this is a fantastic episode. And what I love about this episode as well is that this has a bunch of actionable advice that you can actually take step by step and go through the process of being able to reduce your bills and increase your income. And growing that gap, the gap between your bills and your income is what is going to build wealth. The gap between how much you make and how much you spend, growing that gap is how wealth is built.

Starting point is 00:02:58 So this is exactly what we are so excited to share with you. Nicole has some amazing tips, so I can't wait for you guys to hear this episode. So without further ado, let's get into it. So Nicole, welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So we are so excited to have you. You have such an amazing show at Money Rehab, and you have a daily show, which is incredible as well. So I really encourage everybody to go listen to that show.

Starting point is 00:03:22 We're going to link it up down below. But you have a really valuable episode that I absolutely loved about negotiating your rent. And you actually negotiated live on your podcast with your landlord, which I loved, which was really cool. And I saw that a study by Fannie Mae just came out, and that 69% of renters think that the rent is going to increase in 2022. So for most people, negotiating can be somewhat scary. A lot of people get nervous when it comes to. negotiating. So what are some steps we should take to prepare for negotiation with our landlord? The landlord one is so tricky because it's so personal, right? It's the place you live. Like,

Starting point is 00:03:56 you don't want to piss them off because they know where you live. And I think during COVID, we had to get more down with it. And a lot of people used a template that I gave them to write a letter or an email so that you could start there without actually having to have this conversation. live. And the reason I wanted to do the conversation live is because I think in theory, you know, people know they should negotiate. They just don't know what the heck to actually say. And if you're going to have the conversation, I think that you should go in, of course, having done your homework, I actually like to throw out the first number. I know this might be controversial. But have a number in mind, even if it's, of course, a lower number than you're likely

Starting point is 00:04:44 going to get. You're never going to get to that low of a number if you don't throw it out first, in my opinion. So if you're going to start with an email or if you're going to start with a conversation, I think it's really important to, you know, come to it from the human perspective, right, especially when it comes to your rent, because the landlord is dealing with, you know, still probably the tale of COVID stuff. You're dealing with job insecurity likely or some other variables going on. So you want to be able to talk to them about that. This is not like a cold, hearted conversation. You want to show a little bit of humanity and show, you know, a little bit of consistency as a renter or, you know, as a tenant so that they know that you are going to be

Starting point is 00:05:36 committed to them. In general, for negotiation, you want to show your commitment so that you get a hookup, Right? From a landlord's perspective, you always want to put yourself in their shoes. They don't want to deal with having another renter who is an unknown, right? They could be a total partier. They could destroy the place. They have to punch the place before they even let another renter in, right? So you want to show your humanity and also have empathy for what they're going through. And I actually agree with throwing out that number first as well, because I think it's one of those things you have to know the number. otherwise you're at the mercy of your landlord when you start these negotiations. So I agree with that as well. I think that's one of the most important things to understand. Now, before you approach your landlord, do you recommend practicing with like a friend with scripts or something like that? Or do you think that it's something where you just kind of approach it, go into it, see what kind of conversation you have, have obviously a civil conversation with your landlord. Or should you kind of go through and practice that over time? I think it's always great to practice. You can practice with a friend. You can practice with your dog. You can practice in the mirror. Going into these conversations, sometimes it's easy to have a brain fart, right? And so having some notes

Starting point is 00:06:49 down is always helpful as a little cheat sheet. If you don't know what to say, you can always go back to some sound bites I offer a few of my suggestions. And again, with this experience, you can start with an email, which is kind of the training wheels that a lot of people want to start with before actually having a live conversation that's, you know, more likely to be brain farty. Absolutely. I agree with you as well. I think that's the easiest way to take the first step. And doing it, you know, with enough time, if you're doing it 15 days before your lease is up, you don't have much leverage. But if you do it with enough time, you'll be able to actually have that conversation and maybe make some good decisions along the way. So one thing I loved about the episode

Starting point is 00:07:32 that you did live was the way you handled objections because your landlord maybe had a few objections and then you responded with some awesome things. So usually we're not going to get everything we want on the first try. So how do you recommend people handling objections when their landlord has those? They're for sure going to have them. I mean, there's no scenario that they're going to be like, sure, pay less rent. In fact, let me give you money. Let me just roll out the red carpet. So go in expecting to have pushback. When it comes to negotiating your rent, remember that you still have your security deposit as a leverage point. So you don't want to go in, you know, guns blazing with all of your tools in your shed or arrows in your quiver or whatever. You don't want to like offer all

Starting point is 00:08:17 the things. But you want something in your back pocket. If they really push back against lowering the rent, you want to have some creative options. Like, hey, can you maybe take some of my security deposit and then amortize that out and then lower it? And then, you know, I'm going through a tough time. And so I'm just making this up, of course. And so, you know, toward the end of the lease term, I could replenish that in some way. I don't even know. Like, you could come up with a lot of different scenarios that fit your situation. And, you know, remember that offering to extend the time you're there is something that you're going to want to offer.

Starting point is 00:08:54 But again, have that in your back pocket. Don't go in with like a verbal diarrhea of, I know there's a lot of potty references here. those drugs. Don't go in. Just like thing all the things up front. Try your best to keep some of your ammo as you get pushed back because you certainly will. Absolutely. I highly recommend everybody to listen to that episode because Nicole didn't even have much leverage. She was leaving that place in a few months and she still managed to get everything. She wanted that negotiation. I thought it was absolutely amazing the way you did that. So I think that was, that's absolutely perfect. Thank you. So I want to shift. I want this Nicole to be an episode where people, if they want to

Starting point is 00:09:30 negotiate their bills, they can send it to a friend or if they want to negotiate either bills they can go through that process. So the next one I want to talk through is the salary. And the salary is one that we talk about a lot in this podcast because my belief is that increasing your income solves a lot of problems when it comes to money. And I think it's the catapult to building wealth over time. And I think there's a lot of things that can happen when you increase your income. And the best way to start is at your job, your day job, where you spend most of your time, spending that time to increase your income there first. And I think this is one of the most important skills that you can master. I've seen studies come out where people say someone who

Starting point is 00:10:02 negotiates their salary every three years makes over a million dollars more than the person who doesn't negotiate their salary. So it's a really valuable skill that we can really go through and try to learn over time. So how can we approach our boss to begin negotiating our salary? A few really important things. First, and I totally agree with you, by the way, you can penny pinch as one option or you can make more money. So it's a lot. So it's, doesn't feel like doom and gloom and you have to save every penny. So absolutely, making more money is a really important thing to focus on versus like nickel and diming yourself. The same amount of energy could be put into negotiating your salary, whether you're already out a job or

Starting point is 00:10:46 whether you're starting a job. So remember this is a serious conversation. This is not like a pop in your boss's office if you're actually in an office these days and say, hey, do you have a few minutes to chat about this. This is like a calendar invite situation. Be really mindful of when you ask for this meeting. So summer Fridays, probably not the best time. You know, Mondays where there's the hustle and bustle, probably not the best time. When there's a budget meeting, nobody likes budget meeting. So probably not a good time. But if you know you have, let's say, a presentation coming up that you're going to crush or you have some accolade that's about to hit, Perfect time, much better time to ask for that meeting. And then go into that meeting,

Starting point is 00:11:32 just like you would any other presentation that you would prepare for your job. You come up with, you know, PowerPoints for client meetings. You often don't use that same TLC for your own negotiation. So remember that every boss has a boss. Everybody has a boss. Like even the CEO has a boss. they have a board or if they're a public company, they have shareholders. And so they're probably not focused on all the cool things that you're doing. Hopefully you have a list running of what those cool things are. You know, go crazy. Put it in your own presentation if you want so that you have a clear depiction of what you have been doing because not only is your boss not probably paying attention to every little awesome thing you're doing, but likely they're going to have to go to

Starting point is 00:12:23 the mat for you if they do want to give you a raise. So it's nice to have something organized that they can also refer to when they're doing that because they have a lot of things like they're probably even asking for their own raise. So just keep that in mind. Keep like those pain points in mind for them. So you're making it as easy as possible. And finally, I would say come up with three options. First, just a bump in base salary. Second, some sort of perks option. So that can run the gamut and really be whatever is a perk for you, whether it's a transportation stipend, to participate in the company's bonus structure, to get a corporate card, you know, whatever that is. And then a hybrid version. So a perks option plus a financial monetary bump

Starting point is 00:13:11 and base salary, like a cash option. Because sometimes, as you know, it's harder to give cash and it's easier to give more stuff. And that stuff could likely be as valuable or make. even more valuable to your life or your lifestyle. Absolutely. I completely agree. And one of the biggest things that you talked about there is the timing of setting up that meeting, because that meeting really is truly important. And the preparation to go into that meeting is so incredibly powerful.

Starting point is 00:13:36 So say you did all this preparation, you timed it at a time that was actually a good time to talk about this, and you're still rejected up front. How do you recommend that we maintain communication with our boss or our superiors to see if we are on track to get that raise, maybe in a couple of months down the line? This is not something you probably want to hear, but before even asking for a raise, ask yourself, self, do I deserve a raise? And be really clear, if you were your boss, would you give you a raise? And, you know, let's not be delusional. Not everyone deserves a raise. Like, and that's okay. And maybe some stuff has been going on in your life and you've kind of been slacking. So it might not be a good time. But it's no for now, not no forever. And then. The best thing you can do is really talk about the overall organization and talk about the community. I think talking me, me, me, me will get you a no, no, no, no, really fast. Because as a boss myself and as I'm sure you have employees, we're running businesses, right?

Starting point is 00:14:38 This is not a charity. So if you're making money and you're showing me that you're making me money, I'm much more likely to give you more money. If you're showing me that you're invested in my company and my bottom line for the long run, I'm more likely to invest in you. So going in and talking about how fabulous you are, you know, is nice, but it's not showing me where I'm making money, which is really what I want. And so if you can come to it from that perspective, hey, if somebody said to me, hey, I'm making you, you know, a hundred grand extra a year.

Starting point is 00:15:14 and, you know, I need a $10,000 expense budget. Great. That is fantastic math for me. I would give you that all day, every day and twice on Sunday. So remember that, you know, these are the types of metrics that any company is going to want to measure to. And always know that at the end of the day, having leverage is the best negotiating tactics. So see what else is out there. Your boss could call your bluff. So make sure you're not lying about that. You know, a competitor or another company, if they gave you an offer, that is ultimately the best negotiating tactic. I could not agree more.

Starting point is 00:15:56 And I think the biggest thing is actually showing that how are you making the company more money. That's one of the things that we talk about in this podcast all the time as well, is just figuring out what your leverage is and utilizing that to your advantage. And the biggest leverage is, how are you making the company more money or how you making the department more productive? Some of those different things are going to help you along those lines as well. So if we are going through this process, say we're meeting with our boss every single month.

Starting point is 00:16:18 Maybe they reject us up front. We're meeting with them, making sure that we're on track six months or a year out, going through the whole process. We accomplish everything we talked about and they still don't give us that raise. Do you recommend that we look at some other positions, maybe at other companies? Yeah, and that's why I think it's important to talk about a growth plan. I really like that buzz phrase when you're going in originally because if they say, hey, you know, it's still a pandemic. We're in a recession. You know, these are all real issues that

Starting point is 00:16:47 everybody is dealing with. You can say totally get it. Here's what I laid out. I'm going to continue to add to this little deck or, you know, one sheet or whatever I came up with about all the ways I'm contributing to your and our bottom line. And I'd love to talk about those growth plans. I'd love to revisit this. And, you know, so you're foreshadowing what a next conversation. is going to be. So the next time your boss sees that pop up on their calendar, they're like, oh, well, yeah, this is that talk we said we were going to have. So I think it's about laying that foundation, laying the groundwork, focusing on the contribution you're making financially, not just for funsies. Like, I'm not just giving you a raise for funsies. So focus on that,

Starting point is 00:17:36 again, between, you know, the time you got to know and then the next time you ask. And yeah, you know, sometimes you have to move away in order to move up. And I like to think of a career, not really as a ladder. I think of it as rock climbing or a rope swing. And so, yeah, I've worked for myself. I've worked for other people. Who knows? I could work for another company. I could be the CEO of my household and a lot of different permutations along the way as well. I could not agree more. And I've seen stats come out where people who maybe move on to another company when they can't get those raises, you usually get a 15% raise just from that jump on average. And a lot of times it can be even greater depending on what field you're in. So we talked about the big two. We talked about rent.

Starting point is 00:18:19 We talked about your income, increasing your income. Those are two really big ones. Now, here are some other ones that I think are really cool. And one of them that you talk about a lot, which I have never done or tried before, is credit card interest. And this is one that a lot of people don't know that you can negotiate your APR and your credit card. So how can we start the process of negotiating our credit card interest rate? Yeah, I did a couple of of segments where I helped people do this and you could watch it where I put it on speaker so you could hear these conversations actually happen, which I think is the best way to learn. And yeah, your base APR, whether you're paying your credit card off or not, is negotiable. Just because it comes

Starting point is 00:18:58 on some fancy letterhead piece of paper doesn't mean it's gospel. And there could be a time, even if you are paying your credit card off in full every month, that you can't do. that. So it's good to be proactive about getting it to the lowest rate possible. And as you know, not everyone's credit card APR is the same. The way APR is calculated is based on somebody's credit score. So if we sat down and we went to drinks and we talked about our APR, which nobody does, we would find out that it's different. So the best way to, you know, have leverage to getting a lower APR is doing credit hygiene and also being loyal to that company. So if you've been at Amex for 10 years, let's say, and you call them and remind them that you've been such a great customer and that

Starting point is 00:19:52 you've done credit hygiene, of course, be honest about that because they can see it between the time you started with Amex and the time you're calling, then you're much more likely to get your APR lowered. It might take a minute. They may, you know, put you on hold for a while. So this one isn't a quick conversation. But be a dog on a bone, ask to talk to managers. The worst thing they can say is no. And the answer is always no if you don't ask. And it's your hard-earned money.

Starting point is 00:20:21 So you might as well fight for it at every place you possibly can. Absolutely. We'll link up to those episodes too as well because I agree with you. I think that's the best way to learn is to actually watch someone do it. What are a couple of things maybe that you can utilize as leverage to try to get that rate down? Is there incentives that we could provide potentially that would incentivize the credit card company to lower that rate? Yeah, the biggest thing across the board with all negotiation is understanding that whether it's, you know, a landlord or a credit card company or a cell phone company, they would rather throw you a bone versus losing you as a customer. So, you know, your leverage is, hey, I'm going to go to a competitor or, you know, you're not ultimately going to get my business at all. So you might as well throw me a bone. And so generally with any creditor, they will rather. take something if there's a chance they're not going to get anything at all. So this wouldn't

Starting point is 00:21:13 necessarily apply to the APR, but it could apply to the amount you actually owe on your credit card. If you carry a balance, you can ask them to give a discount. I don't know. Maybe they will if there's a chance that's going to have to go into collections and they have to pay for that. You could ask them to waive late fees or other fees or you can negotiate the membership amount. All of this stuff, you know, I'm not guaranteeing that they're going to hook it up, but knowing that you are valuable as a customer and as you know, cost of acquisition for customers really high, especially right now with all the ways, you know, the app store is changing and cookies and this and that. So they would rather, again, throw you a bone versus losing you as a customer.

Starting point is 00:22:00 Absolutely. I could not agree more on that as well. And I think that that is one of the things where it is so expensive for them to acquire customers right now. It's just one of the things that they'd rather help you out. And that's where I've seen negotiation happen a lot. So lately, I've been noticing how fast things are changing at home. The kids are growing like crazy. Clothes don't fit anymore and routines are changing. And it just hits you. Life is expanding. And when your life grows, your responsibility grows with it. That's something I've been thinking about more this spring, making sure the safety net we have in place actually matches the life that we're building. And that's where PolicyGenius comes in. PolicyGenius is an insurance company. They're an online marketplace

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Starting point is 00:24:56 Track sales, handle inventory, manage staff, send invoices, and keep up with finances all in one place. Fly through orders with zero mistakes. get the data you need and keep everything working together. So you're ready for whatever's next. Learn more about their customizable plans at squareup.com. One of the things I want everybody to notice that Nicole's talking about here is

Starting point is 00:25:18 negotiation is actually a creative process where you can get creative on some of this stuff and figure out some things that maybe a lot of people haven't asked for, but there's so many different things that you can negotiate outside of just the actual rate or just your salary or just your rent. All of these things are flexible. and there's a lot of things that you can do with this. So just get creative when you get into these negotiations. So, Nicole, what else can we negotiate outside of some of these standard bills?

Starting point is 00:25:42 Or there are things like maybe your cable bill or your cell phone bill? Are there anything else that you recommend people negotiate? Totally. I'm just looking at this worksheet that I had sent out in the middle of COVID with a bunch of scripts and resources and things like that. And one that I think is maybe the hardest to negotiate, but the most important. I don't know if you've ever had a debt collector call you. I have.

Starting point is 00:26:04 They're very scary people. But negotiating with them is so important because they actually have, or usually, I will say, because somebody's going to write it and be like, well, they didn't in my case. Normally, they'll have an amount that they actually can settle with you for. So I've even had some stuff recently go to collections just because I moved and I didn't get the bill or whatever. And so I love doing this stuff. You know, I grew up in an immigrant family where I hated it growing up that my family would like, for everything. I was so embarrassed. But now it's become a really handy skill. And I just said so like, well, like what's the amount that you can settle this for? Like how about, you know, half? And they're like,

Starting point is 00:26:45 oh, please hold. And then, you know, inevitably that they have approval already to settle with you at a lower rate than the bill was. So I know they're so scary and they can be such, I don't know what I can say on this show, but they can be such meanies. And, you know, the impetus is to like hide and curl into the fetal position and, you know, not talk to anybody or ignore them. And it's like never a fun day to talk to a bill collector or, you know, somebody calling you to pay a bill that's overdue or you didn't pay or whatever. But it's really important that you put your big girl and big boy pants on and do it because it will hurt your credit score if you don't do it. And they usually can hook you up with something that's pennies on the dollar. Absolutely. I think just one of those

Starting point is 00:27:30 really valuable skills, that learning this overtime, and the more you do it, it really is a skill, the more you do it, the more comfortable you get with it, and then just practicing this over time and trying to negotiate everything, really negotiating everything. If you do that over time, say you have a 30, 40 year career where you're negotiating everything, you could save upwards of six figures easily by doing that over time. So that is the really interesting thing about it as well. So do you recommend when you're calling for just like a standard bill, do you recommend just calling into customer service, or is there a specific person that you should try to target, maybe that can be the decision maker. Yeah, customer service numbers are no fun.

Starting point is 00:28:06 And customer service reps, you know, usually have to stick to very specific rules. But typically that's a good place to start and then just really quickly escalate it. You know, the error depends on the size of the company. I recently had the CEO of the Real Real on. That's a public company. And she was telling me, I think that episode is out today, she was telling me that she still reads the escalations just to understand how to do her business better. But get it escalated as quickly as possible, like be that squeaky wheel. And, you know, it depends on what type of bill you're negotiating. I recently got it slip into my DMs, actually, that I took a screenshot of. That was really sweet because this woman said that she saved $840 on her cell phone bill,

Starting point is 00:28:55 over the next two years. She said, yes, read that twice. And she also owns a cafe. So she said that on almond milk and soy milk, she saved more than $600 for the next year and $146 on the paper that they get delivered over the next year for the business. So when you're dealing with vendors like that,

Starting point is 00:29:15 you know, it's probably going to be more of like a person that you actually deal with and not just a random customer service person. That's absolutely incredible. That's what I love about what we do too, is just those stories that come out all the time. They're absolutely amazing. So I want to shift to a couple of questions that we ask a lot of guests on here that are a little more fun and some that we get some really cool unique answers on some of them.

Starting point is 00:29:35 So the first one is you're an author and you have some great books out there. So what are some great books that you have read recently? Oh, gosh. So I actually started as a poetry major. So the books that I read are probably going to surprise you. I became a writer, just not the kind I expected. So I'm like the last person to ever be talking about finance. I sometimes can't even believe that I'm still doing it.

Starting point is 00:30:00 But I like poetry books. I said what did I recently read? I'm looking up actually at my bookshelf right now. Oh, and I do like good psychology books. So the Body Keeps score was a recent one. And then I read Lana Del Rey has a poetry book. I know this is really, really random. Should I tell you about the finance books that I've read recently?

Starting point is 00:30:23 either one is fine. This is why we always get unique answers here. So this is why I like John Green books, which is so I don't know what that says about me that I like coming of age fiction. That's what I like to read on my free time. As far as like business books that I've read, my friend Pyle, who is the founder of Class Pass. She just came out with a book called Life Pass. Another friend Lori Siegel, who used to be the CNN tech reporter, came out with a very cool book. called special characters, which is the behind the scenes of a bunch of the tech titans and like her experience covering them for a long time. Those were really good. Awesome. That's a unique one. So I love that. We get different answers all the time on everybody's favorite books, which is fantastic. Oh, favorite books are the ones I just read. Either one. Either one is fine. Okay. Well, the favorite one I would say is probably Anna Koretina, which is what my line from that book is what my company is named after actually. So fun fact. It's called nothing, but People think it's about like gold and bling, bling, but it's not.

Starting point is 00:31:26 It's a Russian novel. Oh, interesting. That's awesome. That's awesome. So this one's a little deeper, but it's one that we also get some really cool answers on. So what part of your work or life makes you come alive? Oh, I would say the DM slips that I get. I don't get fun, sexy DM slips.

Starting point is 00:31:46 I get really nerdy ones or the notes that I get. I mean, you know, as you know, this can be a grind, like any. job or profession can be. But that's definitely what keeps me alive and keeps me going. Absolutely. And some of the stuff that, you know, what we do here and helping you with their finances, it's just amazing some of the stuff that people write into you. So that's amazing. Now, this is my favorite one to ask. And it's one where we get really unique answers, surprisingly, but it's one that I think is really impactful. And it's especially, you know, what this podcast is truly about. And it's about wealth. So what does wealth mean to you?

Starting point is 00:32:20 wealth to me means having the FU money to leave a crappy job or leave a crappy relationship or a crappy situation because you have the money and that means freedom to do so. I grew up in a broken home, first generation American, like saw my family's house foreclosed on when I was little, have all sorts of financial trauma, talked in my last book about bailing my mother out of jail using cash that was hidden under the safe behind the maxi pads in the bathroom when I was in middle school. And so I have all sorts of crazy financial trauma. And so having my own back and knowing that I'm always going to have a place to stay and a way to take care of myself is ultimately what wealth means to me. That is absolutely incredible. I'm so glad that you brought this up because this is one

Starting point is 00:33:14 thing, Nicole, that we talk about all the time is no matter what situation you come from, you can help fix that situation for yourself by building wealth and figuring out how your money works and just taking it step by step over time. You can even change your family's tree just by doing this and figuring out how your money works. Even if you don't make a lot of money, you can learn how to negotiate and do some of these tactics that we talked about here, increase your income over time and be able to actually free up time for you and your family over time to build that wealth and it creates that freedom, which is absolutely amazing. So I'm so glad that you brought that up as well because that is really cool. Amen, Andrew. And that was our last question there. So where can people find out

Starting point is 00:33:48 more about you and your podcast and your books and everything else that you have going on. Well, you can find me at Nicole Lapin wherever social media is served, I suppose. Nicole dot Lapin at TikTok because some young Nicole Lapid got the Nicole Lapid before I got there. And you can listen to Monia Rehab wherever you got your podcast. Absolutely. We'll link up everything down below as well so everybody can check that out. I truly recommend everybody listen to Nicole's podcast. It's one of my favorite finance podcast that I actually listen to every single day. So I'm so excited for everybody to check it out as well.

Starting point is 00:34:25 So this would be great. Nicole, thank you so much for coming on. This was absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for the work that you do. Frozen lasagna, medium power, 15 minutes. Sounds like Ojo time. Let's play.

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The Personal Finance Podcast - Why You Should Negotiate Every Bill With Nicole Lapin

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