The Pete Quiñones Show - Chile's Pinochet Led Coup w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

66 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas joins Pete to detail the political history of Chile that led up to Pinochet's coup in 1973 and the subsequent fallout from his presidency.Radio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Buy Me a CoffeeThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas' WebsiteThomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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See the Irishfield.I.E for more details or search the Irishfield, Cheltenham Edge. I want to welcome everyone back to the Piquino show. Doing a little timely one here. We're going to be releasing this on September 11th. And I guess some people would think we were doing a 9-11 episode. But no, this is actually the 50th anniversary of the coup in Chile. And I wanted to have Thomas on to give his. opinion of what it was and how it went down and how it benefited the right.

Does that sound good? I mean, yeah, I mainly, I mainly want to dismantle misconceptions as well as out and out confabulations about the situation in Shilly, you know, cultural, political, and historical, because all these things play into the equation. You know, I'm not just being a historical researcher who's insinuating his own fetishes for anthropological data into this discussion. It really is significant in a way in the case of Chile. In Latin America, generally, but Chile in particular,

we're going to talk about what happened there and why it became such a critical Cold War Battle Theater. And that's the way to understand this. That's the way to understand this. that's the way to understand the totality of what became Operation Condor. That's the way to understand the situation in Argentina, which was a lot more murky and conspiratorial than that of Chile. I mean, that weren't the discussion all unto itself. But particularly what developed in Nicaragua and El Salvador and Grenada was key.

as well in the final phase of the Cold War. And people, they don't fully understand. At the time, people generally did, it's interesting how they kind of tortured rationales, people would resort to these Peter Arnett types, and even Oliver Stone, who made a pretty nakedly partisan movie about, you know, Central America, I think it was actually called Salvador.

I don't know how these people could rationalize. I mean, I know how they did superficially. I mean, I was alive during the time, but how they could sort of redact in their own mind the fact that Central and South America, you know, maybe we refer to as Latin America in total, was an active battle space in the final phase of the Cold War. And it was a truly critical battle space because not just in terms of, of American credibility vis-a-vis-Munrow Doctrine and things, but that would have rectified

the strategic imbalance that Warsaw Pact was always disadvantaged by owing to, you know, facts of geography and the fact that in that epoch, the way force structures were, you know, owing to the technology the day. It conferred a tremendous advantage on NATO, potentially, that it could strike, you know, basically from, you know, within critical range, decapitation range. Ultimately, we're talking about strategic nuclear platforms, a Soviet territory. But the, and finally, and I'll bring it back to the discussion at hand in more precise terms. In the Dayton era, the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact in adjacent states, they were winning the Cold War in military terms. It didn't matter that Warsaw Pact was a basket case in terms of its internal situation.

It didn't matter that the Soviets were negotiating a crisis within the Kremlin itself, a leadership as this kind of aged gerontagricotocracy, like literally died off. you know America was soundly defeated in Vietnam. Nixon mitigated the significance of that by decoupling Beijing from Warsaw Pact, but that didn't entirely nullify the impact of the outcome, obviously. And that led to, in turn, you know, the America ended up begging the Khmer Rouge against the People's Army of Vietnam. Stay ahead of the crowd with the Irish Fields.

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You know, because the Cameroos were China's proxy. So this three-way proxy war developed, you know, between the Camer Rouge, you know, who were victorious against Lawnal's forces, you know, between the Camer Rouge and the People's Army of Vietnam. You know, the Chinese had their own agenda there. But the United States and the people were looking at China were nominally backing the Champ bagging the Camer Rouge against a Soviet client in Vietnam. The Soviets responded, you know, by throwing heavy military developmental subsidies at India, you know, and reaffirming their friendship pact as a hedge against China. America responded, you know, by taking on Pakistan, you know, and then bagging Pakistan in the Indo-Pagistan War.

You know, and drop off Ustinov and Grameko as the kind of trifecta. of executive leadership in the Soviet Union of the time, you know, that that's what caused them to actually move in Afghanistan. I think what we talked about, like, they were convinced that the Afghan regime was going to, the Afghanian regime was going to pivot towards the United States. And they thought that, you know, they thought that Carter was heavily cultivating that, that especially only of the loss of Iran

but also I mean that would you know Afghanistan is in the decapitation range of Kazakhstan and Kazakhstan was you know that's where Star City is I mean that was critical to Soviet

strategic nuclear command of control so I mean this was you know basically the Tant would end it I mean it was the invasion of Afghanistan and other things but it

you know the communists run the move on every continent And goal is another one, okay? And there was neither the political will nor the forces in being anymore for America to force to enforce the Truman Doctrine and code of the direct aid of these, you know, friendly states under siege by communist elements. And, you know, the military itself, you know, the draft had ended and the Revolution of Military Affairs had hadn't, you know, gotten off. been implemented yet in any meaningful way, although these weapons systems and this command of control technology like did exist. It just hadn't been integrated into, you know, force structures in being

in a meaningful way yet. But, you know, looking at a map in 1973, again, in military terms, the Soviet Union is winning the Cold War. Chile is an oddly situated place. And kind of like Argentina, there was high hopes for it. You know, people used to talk about Argentina, like it was going to be the United States of South America, which obviously didn't happen. But, you know, despite the racial kind of mixture in these countries, they're more European than they are like America or Canada. You know, Chile became a pretty major regional. military power after what was called the War of the Pacific.

It took place between 1879, 1884. Chile fought against the coalition of Peru and Bolivia and won this kind of like, you know, like Prussian style, like Blitz victory, okay, and acquired a lot of territory and a lot of clout. But obviously, again, owing to its situation on the cone

of South America, I mean, there's a strategic significance there regardless. You know, it's not like the South Atlantic, you know, and access to the South Atlantic and specifically the ability to engage, you know, the U.S. fleet

in the Atlantic potentially, you know, Ford even, you know, is able to deploy beyond, you know, the Western Hemisphere potentially. I mean, that was huge. But it's also, you know, there's a, there's, there's something to the idea of revolutionary ideology being sort of like a fire that catches or some kind of a rule and bacillus, if you'll forgive the kind of overwrought metaphor, but that's true. And people are accepting that more and more now, not because they've taken on some kind of punitive view of communism and history or something. And not even that, that's, that's, that's not even really in the contemplation of most

of these kind of like neuroscience types and, you know, kind of like cultural psychologists. But, you know, people talk about the way like memes become truly viral and like information to make them as viral. You know, that's kind of a narrow, that's kind of a whittled down. version of what the phenomena I'm talking about. And, you know, revolutionary momentum is something that is a real thing. You know, the analogies are mirrored, you know, across accounting for racial and cultural differences and, you know,

really controlling for all variables. suggesting true diversity, you know, this can't really be denied. So all this aside, you know, like as I've talked about with respect to Vietnam and, you know, previously, one of the ways that part ways that people like Mearsheimer, but this idea that, um, you have this kind of like materialist view of warfare, this kind of closet with on steroids view of warfare. Like, well, you know, credibility doesn't matter, you know, and as long as you have, you know, strategic forces in being to devastate your enemy. And there was no, quote, you know, key, there's no essential interest in Vietnam.

It didn't matter. You know, in the 20th century, like, wars weren't fought, you know, to control, you know, access to rubber plantations, you know, or, like, you know, fur trade routes. Like, Vietnam became World War III by proxy because, like, that's where the bad lines were drawn. Like, that's where the communist attacked, you know. And that's where Washington had to draw the line and respond. You know, it didn't matter that it was in Southeast Asia. not some quote key interest there, according to, you know, traditional paradigms of political economy.

So in Chile, even if there was nothing in Chile, I mean, there wasn't, there is. But even if there wasn't, it didn't matter, you know, a communist revolution there, would have developed tremendous momentum that had profound significance beyond its borders and probably even beyond, you know, like the South American continent. continent and into you know central and uh in north america even so i doesn't think to keep in mind now what what was the situation in chile generally like um because this is important it relates to like outlook of the junta um punishing himself and why they were such a test case and staunch resistance to communism and taking a cultural anthropologist they used to write quite a bit about this you know

why some of these in their mind, and this is a superficial view of my point, like why some of these Latin American states seem almost like mirror Franco with Spain. But Spaniards and Portuguese and populations derive primarily from those cultural milieus. They're not, these people don't represent a martial race in the way we think of like the Spartans or the Prussians. But there's some deeply insinuated like military culture there. Okay, there just is, you know. whether it's the code, is it, you know, the quote of Adelgo kind of like writ large, is it, you know, there's something sanguinary, in my opinion, to Spanish Catholicism. I don't mean that punitive terms. I think that's actually quite fascinating. You know, but the, um, you see this to some degree in France, too, but in the Iberian cultures, it's more pronounced. Um, but the military had an outsized role in Chile, you know, like it did in Spain, like it did in Portugal, like it doesn't Italy or didn't Italy. Okay. is the fact. There was a culture and to itself, okay? Now, there's a Chile, as I just mentioned, Chile has unusual geography. It's always susceptible potential encirclement by rival states to the north and to the east. So its institutional orientation of its armed forces was always on the possibility of fighting a multi-front war. Now, who exactly does that sound like? That sounds exactly like the Prussians and what

gave rise to the staff system, which, you know, ultimately every modern army imitates. But there was, going to this fact, even before the Chilean military modernized, you know, in the wake of, you know, the Great War and what have you. there was always certain, there's always an understanding that, you know, the Chilean army, in particularly the army, had to be built around a kind of cadre structure,

you know, where some version of mission-oriented tactics would have to be cultivated, you know, that, like, you know, anybody in a leadership role from, like, NCO upward would have to exhibit,

you know, superior training, efficiency, motivation, you know, basically man for man, be better than the enemy, okay, because again, um, Chile was,

was basically always facing a kind of like von Schleifen quagmire, if that makes any sense. And there's certain anthropological factors, too, of a more kind of cultural nature. Okay, like the Chilean army was very, very, very Catholic. The background of Penne She himself, as well as Admiral Marino, Jose, Toribo Merino Kestro. They were the two most important figures in the junta. Pinochet was out front, but this was ruled by a military committee, basically. And not,

Marino was kind of the brains of the junta. I mean, Penachet was a very intelligent man, as we'll see. But admirals tend to be like a cut above in terms of intellectual capabilities and organizational skills and things. But they, both these men kind of came to define, they were both like exemplars of the Chilean military culture after 1920 or so.

And they also were absolutely the most significant personages in the emergency government. Both of them, Pinochet went to a journalist, He said he was like St. Peter, like literally. You know, he said, I, God's elected us, you know, us being the Chilean army to fulfill missions and prepare the path. You know, and we're just preparing the path, you know, for salvation, you know, of all, of all, uh, of the entire church. You know, we're literally like Christian warriors, you know, um, and Penn State believed that, 110%. You know, he wasn't just, he wasn't just saying that to kind of, you know, shore up a, uh,

his is his public image or something you know and even even if he'd wanted to like that's not the way he'd go about it i mean even even then when there was you know kind of a catholic moment going to the only only certain certain things related to the Cold War and in the situation of northern ireland and other stuff but in any event um after world war two obviously people think about they conceptualize these Latin American states

taking up with America in a for out of strategic convenience as well as going to the kind of the kind of pentagons like outsized influence to the Monroe Doctrine and other things and just kind of like historical variables

you know plus the fact that direct capital subsidies were always coveted, you know, by these countries. You know, even though these states weren't ruined by World War II, they were like untouched. You know, there was, they still, they were still short on development and perpetually short on capital. But there was something superficial about this on the side of these states who were coveting American patronage.

Like, U.S. military influence never really took in Latin America. you know none of these countries like argentina paraguay Chile, Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, all these states where you know that America all these states of basically America set up things like the school of the Americas to cultivate military independence with like US military influence never overwhelmed the kind of local traditions and professional soldiers there you know um there's a there's a

massive streak of anti-communism, like throughout, you know, the professional military cast in Chile, in Chile especially, but throughout Latin America and this long preceded, you know, what we're talking about, like the efforts of, you know, successive American regimes to kind of, you know, cultivate this ongoing alliance structure with, with Latin American, you know, like military-type regimes. it uh and the um you know the and even uh even in terms like professional development and things um like all modern armies need to be habituated to technology and like comfortable with really you know relatively high tech um you know weapons platforms and uh that very much like like

very like in chili as well and elsewhere um very much uh like a a technically competent class within the army developed but beyond that the kind of like managerial and leadership style and like institutional culture of america like didn't really take there um you know like no no why is that it's interestingly in chili there's a hugely disproportionate number of officers who came from immigrant backgrounds. Now, like you guys at Chile, those immigrants were German, they were English, they were Italian, they were French, they were Syrian, they were Croatian. That's why when you look at like a roster of a Chilean officer corps, like first of all, it's a bunch of like white and kind of like Arab or like, you know, Italian-looking guys. And they've got like European surnames,

you know. So you've quite literally got this kind of European and Europe and Europe adjacent officer corps in a country that's you know frankly majority mixed race you know so it's you're talking about like literally like a culture within it within a broader culture you know not just of an institutional sort but of you know an actual you know like like ethnic type you know ethnic sort rather like categorically um like uh there were two german-speaking lutherans on uh on uh in the junta it was uh Fernando Matai, the Air Force commander, and Rodolfo Strange, who was the chief of national police. I mean, there you go. And a lot of these immigrant families, if they weren't moneyed, you know, like they encourage their sons to become military officers, because that was really the way you, that was the only way you could get clout if you weren't part of the national majority.

you know the now of course the marxist of you which is faded somewhat um obviously it's the cold war but it's kind of like this it's kind of like this cockroach that won't die it it just like emerges again and again um and it doesn't help that like how it is in it kind of has like new life now in u.s. academia but most scholars even most military sociologists they're tainted some of this idea that like you know look like um south american soldiers like you know from the officer corps on down you know to the level of nCOs they just represented the they were they were basically like mercenaries who like represented the interest of global capitalism like backed up by the pentagon you know and they and they were like basically like the security force of technocrats and

and uh and you know in and in factory owners you know and um you know they're they're they're They're raised on detritus, destroy left-wing politics, you know, and empower these technocrats who can facilitate, you know, the assimilation of these countries, like, into the globalist structure. Like, that doesn't really make any sense. Okay. And, like, it doesn't, it indicates a real lack of understanding of kind of human motivations and what attracts people to, you know, kind of institutional trappings of, like, heritage and ritual and stuff. Like, nobody, a bunch of, a bunch of Salvadorian national police types and a bunch of Chilean. officers weren't just like pretending to be Catholic because they're like they were worried about their public image you know and they weren't uh they weren't goostepping around the parade

deck because they thought that that would make people they thought that they thought that they thought that like like help their image okay i mean like it's it's not um you know plus the kind of stuff that you know as we'll see you know guys like peniche you know this was not uh a situation like zolenski where uh you know some sort of crisis i mean you couldn't really have a zalensky situation in the Cold War. But my point is, it's not, it's not like, it's not like, um, Penichet was like pocketing a bunch of money and him and his generals were all getting rich and picking up teenage mistresses and like ripping around in Mercedes and, in the streets of, uh, you know, um,

Santiago or whatever, you know, it, um, these guys lived almost a monastic life, you know, like they, they, they didn't, they didn't live in poverty, but they, you know, they didn't have means, you know, like even, uh, Um, uh, like Penachet prior to, prior to the junta, even, he, he, he basically like, lived like a pauper and didn't really own anything. You know, so I mean, this idea that, um, this idea that, you know, oh, well, all these, all these kinds of weird, I mean, not weird in a punitive way, but all these, or unusual. Let me let's, let's, let's, let's, let's employ that descriptor. this kind of like unusual features of Latin American military life that somehow these were just like super structural trappings, you know, that kind of like hid what amount to do a literally mercenary ethos. It's like that's just like nonsense.

Now, what, uh, what was we, you know, we, we got into the fact that America didn't really put a lasting stamp on the, on the, on Latin American military culture generally and specifically Chilean. military life but what did well after the uh after the war of the pacific you know which we talked about a minute ago which ended in 1884 um the president uh domingo santa maria he realized that the army needed to modernize and reorganize itself the model of a european army that basically outfought peru and bolivia you know but it uh they you know the world was changing and he and he and the army was still low-tech. Like, basically, what carried the day was, again, like, a very game officer corps, you know, and in a code of events, they're very kind of mission-oriented tactics.

And frankly, you know, just a lot of men who are very tough and very hungry for prestige. And to serve the fatherland. But what the Chileans decided on, they fixed their sights on Germany. um who they viewed as uh you know kind of like the zenith of uh of um of a military prowess you know and and then um that's kind of when german clout was at its was added zenith i would say okay um the uh the chilean regime it was it was already familiar with germans as a people like in the south of the country um basically the german colonization down there like it had It had led to tremendous capital development.

You know, and there's basically a sense of like, well, what can't these people do? You know, like it, we want to cultivate independence with the Germans anyway because, you know, they're like we basically like we need these people. You know, it's like a shot in the arm of the entire paradigm of national development, you know. The embassy in Berlin, the Chilean embassy in Berlin, was in the charge of a guy named Gierremer, He contacted the German military directly. He apparently had some kind of good rapport with Marshall von Malt, you know, who was like a heavy, heavy personage. And he was ultimately put in touch for the man named Emil Corner,

who was an artillery captain, a Prussian. And he was stationed at the artillery and engineering school of Charlottenburg. So basically, he had a background, minus the calorie experience, like, blackjack person. You know, this is exactly the kind of man you want, you know, if you're looking for, like, a single man, you know, of a mid-level officer rank to bring your forces up to par. You know, they really kind of struck gold of them. the guy was also like a big war hero you know um he uh he signed on for a five-year work agreement with chile and he basically the chileans told him like you know basically they turn our force into the prussian army okay um and after becoming a chilean officer himself uh coroner served

the army's inspector general for a decade from until 1910 okay so the army that the army that peniche joined pennsyche joined in 1933 okay that's an auspicious year right um and uh basically this army had just been like restructured and it kind of like the prussian army of Latin America okay it was a totally different institution then uh then that um that that was you know people entered you know like a generation earlier you know that like penise's father like you know would have would have encountered um beniche was born uh he was born on november 19 25th 1915 um he was the descendant of breton immigrants and uh and basques um his basque heritage was maternal the family had been in chile since the the 17th century um the breton immigrants were recent

but that's a very interesting category, at least I think so. Pena Chay always wanted to be a soldier. His great uncle was a veteran of the war in the Pacific. His godfather told him about serving in the French army in World War I. Eventually, his father kind of like relented, even though he wanted him to study medicine and pursue. a more kind of traditional path to the clout because like peniche's family was well off you know they weren't they weren't people who needed you know um a military officer's son to enjoy upward mobility um and uh what was common uh what was common among this coterie of officers including um

you know historians have taken the oral histories of these guys who came of age when penisesh day And there's actually a fair amount of like decent conflict literature on this. You know, I'm not a not necessarily friendly variant, but it's pretty value neutral. But these guys, it wasn't just punish it. He wasn't just kind of like romantic dream or outlier. Like the officers of that generation, pretty much to a man, they talked about pious Catholicism and a childhood fascination with like military heroes. You know, and like the discipline of, you know, these, you know, these, you know, these, uh, the, you know, these officers who were in like prussian uniforms you know what like flawless like parade drill

and things like that you know like this is basically like any like any kid of like european stock like european or arab or like you know adjacent stock in chile like this is what he wanted to be you know like they can't really be overstated um like roberto kelly who is pennishays economics minister you know and again uh you know a guy of european pedigree his grandfather was a was a navy man in the war the pacific like he said um like in his biography it never his autobiography had never it never occurred to be to be anything else than a sailor without a doubt the navy is a vocation like the priesthood not everybody is called to be tied to the post like that's the way these guys looked at it again you know like we're the we're the we're the vanguard of the fatherland

and we're you know and we're you know where they we're the church militant you know that's that's a remarkably powerful combination of cultural identitarian variables you know um the uh and there was a the army uh way in there a um a even even when a even when a military draft was implemented pursuant to the you know 20th century reforms like the way like army literature like they're like recruiting literature at the time and kind of like they're

they're sort of you know after these like kind of like after action what amounts to kind of like these kind of like romantic novels of like the daring do of officers in the world of Pacific but it's kind of like dressed up as like after action reports like it was like all like the theme that is like on the nose like through all this stuff

being a soldier is it's it's it's different than any other vocation because soldiers give their lives to the fatherland you know like a monk gives us life to the church you know and it's um it's not um that that's unique it's uniquely catholic it's like unique it's both uniquely prussian and uniquely catholic which is you know a collision of uh of opposing tendencies but you know that's uh there's a syncretism there that's a syncretism there that's really interesting but um the uh it also something and this was again like another prussian tendency that was brought to bear um there's a really strong devotion to continual study of warfare um it peniche said that you know he first started reading when he got to the military um his first reading assignment was the rebellion of the

masses or the revolt of the masses by Jose Ortega E. Gassett, and a lot of friends of ours will be familiar with that. And the Gallic War was by Caesar. After that, he became this bibliophile. Penice when he died, went approximately 55,000 books, like many of which were rare and one of a kind. So he was another, like, man of books. That makes me feel a bit better about my own book hoarding. Frankly. Now, here's what you're going to kind of like the nitty gritty of what created this, you know, kind of irreparable divide between, you know, civil society and the Chilean army. You know, it wasn't just the kind of factors we talked about a moment ago of an identitarian sort, but very, very few military personnel actually

voted in elections in Chile, even though they were technically allowed to. It wasn't illegal, but it was considered unseemly. You know, soldiers aren't supposed to be. political and you know not just because they're you know they're supposed to serve you know the fatherland first and foremost and not not discreet you know political factions or or interest they're in but it's also like it's it's it's viewed they viewed as like beneath them you know um particularly we consider the kind of elitist and and um you know uh monastic sort of a kind like self-concept that these men had. And also the, uh, when the, um, when the draft was a, when the conscript, when the conscription regime was implemented, you know, uh, the, like the new conscripts, I couldn't

vote, you know, because they, they weren't, they weren't, uh, they weren't 21. What's interesting, I saw an interview with Michael Flynn. Uh, I think Patrick Med David was interview him. And Michael Flynn said the same thing. He said, when I was in, I never voted. Yeah. Yeah. No. And it's really dysfunctional. I mean, I mean, the U.S.

military is like a, is, it's like as awful as the rest of the fucking regime, but it's, it's really, really, really dysfunctional.

It's on its own face for you to have, you know, like what you're talking with the officer, core of the enlisted ranks, did it, you know, be like committed to some,

you know, to some, you know, to some, you know, it's, people can tell me it, I don't what I'm talking about, you know, because you know,

you're not per service, fuck you for Beijing. Like, I know what I'm talking about in this regard, that's obvious but the um it uh considering uh considering the size of the chileys electorate and the number of commission and non-commissioned officers and the forearm services taken together and this is both politically and statistically significant um like military votes they're like if

if uh if an officer's had voted in appreciable numbers it may not have decided any any any any you know any presidential contest one or the other but um relatively but relatively small pluralities decided national elections regularly in chile and particularly in 1958 and 1970 where uh something like 39,000 votes um you know like like we're what put the winning candidate over you know it's um the uh and also too like it was it was it was it was it was against the law it was literally a crime for you know that would have been to court martial to protest you know uh and that was a pretty that was a pretty widely um that's pretty that's pretty loosely interpreted okay i mean anybody

you know a man going to be brought up on charges and availed to courts marshal you know not just for joining, you know, some, not just like throwing bricks in the street at, you know, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, at, it's associated with, with, with parties that were considered to be, you know, having, have, have, have, have a platform that tended towards, you know, if I had discredit the political process, you know, based on, ideological commitments or, you know, associating with parties who's, you know, do's paying members, you know, you know, had said things that impugned impugned the honor of the fatherland. Like, is, is, it's not something they would have fucked with, okay? Like, like, even.

given where they inclined and they weren't. And Pinschet, too, I mean, starting his service, you know, quite literally in 1933, there was even greater kind of technical aptitude demanded by new officers, especially

in the Navy, in the Air Force, but I mean, also in the Army, particularly as regards command and control. You know, the, so as these officers, became more worldly because they had to be like they'd send them they'd be sent to you know they'd be sent to uh africa asia europe other places in latin america you know to as in a liaison capacity and like learn from other militaries and like as these guys developed you know linguistic aptitude for

foreign languages as they literally saw the rest of the world you know if they talked uh you know they they talk to vermic officers you know or they talk to um you know french officers or they talk to you know like serving in uh in you know in in in in in in Mexico close to the American border or whatever like they developed a worldly perspective and they came to understand you know as time went on they you know they came to they came to understand the Cold War you know and they developed an idea of like where Chile featured into that you know by the Penachet era like what I'm getting is that these weren't just like a bunch of provincial rubs or something like we're trying to

turn back the clock or whatever and they weren't just you know mercenary for a higher in the service of you know basically acting like I think like you know like like like pinkertons on steroids you know beat down recalcitrant like labor types you know they they developed an understanding of like veldt politic and where Latin America featured into that equation you know and um this brings us to what was insidious about olendie okay soder alende in the He was a very busy boy. His schedule took him to North Korea, North Vietnam, and East Germany. Allende believed that the DDR was his best bet in terms of identifying a patron, which is very interesting.

And the DDR, it wasn't just the spearpoint of Warsaw Pact, like the National Vokes Army. It wasn't just the spearpoint of Warsaw Pact. And not only was East Germany, kind of like the crown jewel of like the Stalinist satellite states, East Germany practiced the kind of world politic in a way that the Cubans did, but like a little bit more sophisticated even. Like there was East Germans in Angola, there was East Germans in Yemen, which became South Yemen. There was East Germans in Ethiopia, Eritrea. There was East Germans on Grenada when, you know, the U.S. Army assaulted Grenada. in 83.

For a, for what amounted to a rump state of 20 million people, at a regime that was constantly dealing with an existential threat on its inner border, like literally, like these guys were remarkably active in, in waging the Cold War and in like a direct action capacity. You know, to say nothing like the Bader Meinhauf gang, to say nothing of, you know, them bankrolling and training the popular front of liberation in Palestine. Like, it's remarkable. But Allende knew this, okay?

In East Berlin, Alende met with the party secretary general and de facto, you know, head of state, Walter Ubrick, who preceded Hanuker. From 49 to 71, Ubrick was general secretary. And then he was on a ceremoniously sideline in favor of Hanukkah. from 971 until the end. But he, Ubrick put him in direct contact with Herman Axton,

who was the Central Committee Secretary for International Relations. He quoted to the foreign minister. Okay. Axon's assignment for the duration of his tenure, but particularly in the 60s and 70s, he was to function as a liaison with communist parties throughout the world.

You know, and basically to this is the stuff that smacks of, you know, like the old days of the communist international, you know, which, uh, which Stalin, you know, put an end to by Dick Todd and, and turned it to common form. But it, um, but, but, but it goes to show you how, uh, how these, these things never really went away. You know, they developed a certain operational sophistication, um, and kind of institutionalization and, and kind of a streamlined operational

set of operational tendencies, but it, you know, they, they remain the same beast of prey, but with different slightly different stripes. It, as it were. But,

whether Elendi met with the Stasi directly and Eric Milk, it's not known. But I imagine he would have. Okay. Eric Melke was a he was in direct content with Daniel Ortega with uh with Karafi with um menjitsu with uh you know all these um all these uh all these proxy um

all these proxy elements that uh the Warsaw Pact was was uh directly supporting and Stasi men, their role was not just as, you know, policemen and as espionage agents. They had a role that we'd consider it more kind of, the more suggestive of Special Operations Command. It's complicated. But the East Berlin basically treated accidents, recommendations like they came from. from on high, okay? He was that good. I think him is kind of like a good.

I think him is kind of like a red crowd version of George Kenan. Like legit, I mean, I have like all respect. A lot of these DDR functionaries were damn impressive. Definitely the best that the Warsaw Pact produced. Of course, what Alinda

was doing didn't go unnoticed. CIA Defense Intelligence, CIA at that time, It was losing what remaining cloud it had, but it was still primarily like the eyes and ears of American intelligence behind the East Blount, behind the Berlin Wall. You know, so CIA, they took notice immediately when Alende started popping up in East Berlin. Nixon Nixon said to Kissinger

He's like, look, you know, this Alendi's not, he's not some simple farmer Or some starry-eyed, you know, just, you know, self-styled, you know, Agrarian Revolutionary. Like, this guy's serious, you know, and he's, he's not what, you know, American liberals are presenting him as. And he's not benign, you know.

and Kaczyger obviously agreed. I mean, I, you know, it's, uh, the, uh, the, uh, um, it also was the fact, the Chilean communist party was, uh, it was by far the largest and best organized in South America. Okay. And that's one of the things, that's one of the things that made it appealing to the DDR. And also, we were talking about the Germans and the wonderful things they did for Chile. Well, some of those Germans were unfortunately communists. And they, you know, were building up, um,

political architecture on the other side, you know, and this was a, this was very much a problem. It, uh, I mean, from a geopolitical view, I mean, think about that, like the cone of Latin America just becoming communist, you know, or a, all of Latin America falling. Um, and maybe Brazil remaining kind of in this like garrison siege capacity. Um, I mean, that changes everything. You know, and like I've always, like I'm always saying, it didn't matter that these marketist-Lennis regimes are totally dysfunctional and created economies of shortage. There's all kinds of governments that don't really work right, that shambaligned perpetuity.

It was very possible. It was not at all the stuff of kind of like fever dream, nightmare fantasies. To imagine a world where post-a-line, taunt, like the entire, the entire, like, developing world or colored world goes red, like, kind of the remaining, like, American-friendly regimes outside of Northern Europe and Japan, you know, just, like, eventually just kind of, like, succumb and fall. And America becomes kind of just, like, this, like, garrison state, like, surrounded by, like, a hostile communist world.

Like, that very easily could have come about, okay? And that, that would be a very dangerous planet. you know um we can argue at some or we can discuss at some point whether that's preferable or not to the current situation but it um that's monday morning quarterbacking um in the epoch of you know say 1973 you know 74 75 um this was absolutely a very real possibility okay um now the minute uh The moment of Linde was elected President Chile, the East German regime, like, through Stasi support behind him. Within a couple of weeks, a dozen, like, covert operations, the guerrilla warfare specialists who were from the Stasi, they were dispatched to San Diego under diplomatic cover. They were joined by other East Block special operations capable elements.

including from Czechoslovakia, and the Soviet Union itself, in all probability. They set up a camp near Valparaiso, the Soviets furnished weapons, prefabricated huts. They literally just set up this kind of like guerrilla warfare school, like bam. You know, like, it's like if you buy like a McDonald's franchise, it's like you buy like a, you buy, you buy like a revolutionary communist franchise from Ivan. And they show up and it's just like, bam.

you know, here's, here's, like, your franchise literature. Here's a bite of Klasnikovs. Here's some, like, snazzy freaking, you know, uniforms and, you know, and here's some, you know, like, here's some, like, enameled, like, red starpins for your freaking cap, and, like, you're good to go. You know, like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, but the, um, uh, and milk actually wrote, he, he, he, he would, uh, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, He sent out these what amounts to enter off his memos to every directorate of the Stasi periodically.

And on December 18th, 1972, he said, you know, the Chequess, the DDR will welcome with enthusiasm and happiness, the great victory of the international celerity movement for obtaining the freedom of the Secretary General of the Communist Party, your friend and comrade Louis Corvallon. Like Corvallon was some guy who'd been like in prison in Chile. I can't remember exactly what the, and Milk would call, he called Ministry for State Security Officers like, Chequess, you know, they were right, because there was a call back to his days as a, as an NKVD hitter, you know, during, during the war in Spain and later the

later the Second World War. But my point is, like, he was attuned. Like, Chile was very much, like, a key, like, theater in his mind. Okay, that's why he was, um, that's why he was, uh, like, braying about, you know, these, these, uh, these kind of like, like, like, little chess moves in Chile, like, in lieu of other theaters. Um, the, uh, the Stasi set, set to work, uh,

in Chile targeting targeting you know targeting Pinnishay Loyalists and what have you you know

essentially essentially creating like a mirror of you know in security terms you know like this wasn't this wasn't really above board yet it wasn't Olende wasn't in the driver's seat

long enough for Santiago to become you know like a giant a giant version of of East Berlin but like I think I mentioned to you

I can't remember if we were on here or not but like Ali North mentioned that when he was when he traveled to when he traveled to Nicaragua in 1983 or 84

like when he himself was under diplomatic cover like he relayed back by like Telex that you know like Managua now is like it's like a scale model of checkpoint Charlie on the inter-German border, you know.

And it, um, now what, um, what happened during Pinochet's reign, or like the junta's reign? Um, Chile deteriorated into what, something comparable to the years of lead in Italy. Okay. Um, there's leftist urban guerrilla terror groups. They began, uh, a campaign of, uh, bombing as a. assassinations, you know, exactly the kind of bread and butter stuff that the Stasi taught people to do. You know, there was a, there's bombs exploding in Santiago and Vina Del Mar, in a, in, in all the major, you know, kind of commercial hubs. Um, and larger towns of Chile, you know, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were targeting supermarkets, buses, government offices, you know, like shopping centers, you know, just like indiscriminately, like blowing people to hell, you know, um.

this really ramped up in earnest by the 80s, which is interesting. Between 1983 and 1986, there was more than a thousand bombings attributed to the clandestine communist front and this grouping that called itself the revolutionary movement, which was probably an umbrella. It was probably like numerous non-state actors under this kind of like rubric, you know. But be as it may, like they, uh, they, a total of 21 national police and military casualties were attributed to them. In just four years, between 1984, 1988, East Germany contributed $6,795,15 to the Chilean Communist Party.

That's a huge sum for 40 years ago. And this is East Germany doing it. So they're basically just like they're throwing everything in their cash reserves basically that they've availed for, you know, foreign operations of a military sort. They're just like throwing this into the at their proxies in Chile. You know what I mean? This was a this is a highly valued battle theater. Okay. the most serious incident, I guess, of, in terms of potential harm, and the most kind of spectacular, not, not, not, like, literally spectacular in terms of the spectacle that it created, not spectacular, like, it's wonderful.

September 7, 1986, guerrillas ambushed Pinnishay's motorcade near Santiago. Pender State survived. He didn't take any lead, but five members of his escort were killed. Ten people were wounded. It was basically like a kamikaze kind of attack.

Twelve gunmen from calling themselves the Manuel Rodriguez Revolutionary Front simply assaulted with automatic weapons and grenades. there was a there was never a trial the government ever announced any arrest presumably these men those that were not killed at the scene were hunted down and and done away with um eventually

uh there were some including uh including um eurya um i who uh broke up with the comedies completely going to what he claimed was discussed with, you know, the repressive nature of the East German government, which he stated, and I'm sure he, I think he probably believed this. You know, he's like, I came to realize that if, if, you know, what was then my side one, you know, we, we didn't have no better than the East Germans and what have you. And he broke with communism. And he managed to convince everybody, including Pinochet's people, that he, uh, that this was like a genuine conversion. And he went on to, he went on to, in post-Pencha, Chile to be a, like, a heavy personage. But, and he actually, his, he was posted as, as an ambassador to Moscow.

I don't know if it was like, like, like, like, hoon to humor or what, but the, it, you know, I mean, the list goes on and on of these, you know, communist attacks. Even after Pennachie stepped down, you know, these kinds of attacks continued. There's one, I mean, not in the same kind of earnest, but some of these revolutionary types, there was like this crate in 1996, December 1996, they escaped from the yard of this political prison they were held in, like with the help of these of these original IRA operatives like just like a helicopter like pulled them off the yard just like you know stuff like you'd see in some fucking like john wick or Jason born movie or something but the you know the and um you know not not for nothing either

like uh or maybe maybe people don't know this um like honaker uh eric hognaker was buried he was buried in chili like after he died and they laid the DDR flag on his coffin and everything you know like it's this was uh like this idea that you know the olinda regime they were just these like kind of like social democrats you know who you know just you just kind of like give an alternative system a chance and these fascists you know just just just just destroyed that potentiality you know i mean it was it was real war okay i mean there's no toys about it and if people want to i'm sure very nasty things happened um to people who were suspected of being communist or communist sympathizers. But I mean, what do people want?

Like war is a terrible thing. You know, and you can't, you can't only tell one side of these stories. You know, I mean, I don't know. The Stasi was doing pretty nasty things to people at the same time. And the Stasi were agents of a foreign government who were trying to, you know, determine the political fate of a sovereign country. So that's, that's about all I got for today. We can deep dive more into, I mean, there's a lot here, and frankly.

I mean, we can deep dive more into like the personage of Pinochet if you want when I get back from my trip. But that, you know, I kind of want to give an overview with a situation as it was, you know, politically and strategically and culturally and everything else. I hope I've accomplished that. Well, one of the things that people bring up now because of a Netflix miniseries called a sinister sect. There was a German colony called Colonia Dignidad that is accused of doing all sorts of

acts of torture. People now say Pinotche knows that there were active child molesters operating in the country and he would protect them. I mean, I hear people I know saying these kind of things.

And when you start deep diving into it, It's like, I mean, the guy was at war the whole time he was in office and, you know, to say that he was aware of all these things and, you know, he just allowed him to happen. But it's like, why would that even, it's like every, the story always changed. I remember when I was in college and this guy was going around and he wrote a couple of books. He was some journal. He was claiming that at the soccer stadium, Panishay's loyalists, they, they, They'd sit around watching people be beheaded and cheer it, and they'd tie women down and train dogs to rape them, and they'd watch it for entertainment in this soccer stadium. I mean, that's, like, gross for all kinds of reasons, but that's so, like, fucking weird.

This is, like, not shit that happens. You know, and it's, like, why? And plus, like, who, who, like, what's the source for this? Like, guys who were watching this, like, came back and told you, like, what? Like, I, it's always, like, something sexually pervers. and just like really really, really gross and just like outlandish. Like it's, you know, the, like, for some reason, Pinochet has kind of become this like fixation of theirs.

You know, like, it's really weird. You know, it's like, why, why not, why not Cellsar? Like, why not Strassner? Like, why, Pernet? Like, why Pinnishet? Like, you know, Pinnishay was kind of like what you see what you get you know like he was a you know he was very much like i mean he was very much a like we talked about he was very much like a military officer with the kind of prussian mold who was also like

a very very very like pious kind of warrior catholic i mean that's there's not i mean there's not there there's not there but i mean you know not not in terms of you know these these kinds like deep dark and dirty secrets and plus it's also too like the kind of there's a binality of the kind of horrible stuff that goes on at war it's not like exotic weird stuff like there's this like neo-nazzi colony of child molesters who are like experimenting with people's DNA and like a soccer stadium or guys like practice bestiality like it's not that's that's something from like the warped mind to somebody who like watches too much hentai or something you know like I

It really is. You know, it's like, but it's like for years, you know, people telling me in dead earnest, like, that Nazis, they'd, like, take people's skin off. And if they had tattoos, they'd make it into lampshades and, like, show their friends. So it's like,

why would anybody do that? So you're basically saying that, like, the Germans are like a bunch of Jeffrey Dahmer's. Like, why, why would they even occur to anybody? You know, like, beyond the fact that it's like, okay, like, were you getting this information? and who's like telling this to people. Like, oh, hey, and what I did today? Like, I, like, I hung out with these child molesting Germans.

And then, like, one of this stadium where, like, this chip got, like, raped by dogs? It was awesome. I mean, like, where's this coming from? Like, who's just closing these things? But yeah, yeah. Well, hit up some plugs and we'll live on this. For sure. You can find me at Real Thomas 777.

That's substack.com. You can find me on Twitter X, Real, capital REL underscore, number seven, H-MAS-777. I'm going to Utah on Tuesday and I'm recording dedicated content for Thomas TV, which is my YouTube channel. It's number seven, H-M-A-S space TV. And I think people will appreciate what I'm going to be dropping there. and by the end of the month, season two with a Bine Faser podcast is going to drop

and at which point all season one content is going to be free so you'll be able to access everything from season one and all special edition content for free. And subscription of season two is only $5 a month

and that's as low as I can go and still remain and still not eat a loss. So unless you're a hobo, you can afford that. And I'll make it worth your while. Like I'm constantly like uploading free stuff too. That is a that is what I got.

Well, I appreciate it. And I'm sure I echo everyone else when I say this, safe travels. Yeah, thank you, Pete. I will see everybody in a few days. Thank you.