The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1039: The Work of Ernst Nolte - Pt. 4 - Zionism - w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: April 14, 2024

50 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas concludes a short series on the work of historian and philosopher Ernst Nolte. Here, Thomas talks about Zionism and its lasting impact today. Recorded on 4/13 in the evening.Thomas' SubstackThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777VIP Summit 3-Truth To Freedom - Autonomy w/ Richard GroveSupport Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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So I really appreciate all the support everyone's giving me, and I hope to expand the show even more than it already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekinguenae show. Hey, Thomas, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Thanks for hosting me. Yeah.

Are we going to finish up on NOLTI today? Yeah, I wanted to talk about current events a little bit. I mean, not just for the wrong state. but how they relate to how they relate to Nolte's model of their paradigm of historicism Nolte said

and something that I think should have been more deeply controversial not should have in the sense I think that what he said was wrong in any way but it goes to show you that as kind of Anglophone academia has eclipsed the continent, you know, people don't really pay attention to continental philosophy and the way that they do, you know, kind of anglophone treatments of ethics and things, you know, both in concrete terms as applied to the world situation at any given moment, but also in more abstract terms, you know, postulating, you know, what is a legitimate active state,

you know, what is permissible under conditions of war, things like that. Something I think was more, at least more sweeping in terms of what was being asserted than what was postulated during the historical strike. Was in the Oldtys' 1991 book, it was a history of the 20th century, okay, from essentially a right Higelian perspective. And specifically, specifically talked about how the common nucleus of facts and historical phenomenon gave rise to three totally abnormal political cultures. And that was the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, and Israel. And a lot of people in this country, not so much in Europe, for reasons that should be obvious. but to be able to misunderstand what Israel is,

like I'm not saying this, I'm speaking in purely objective terms, not at all punitively. I think they view Israel, like they do like the independent state of Croatia or something, or like they view, you know, even Ukraine, like some kind of, they think, oh, a bunch of Jewish people lived in the Middle East and decided they wanted their own state. That's not how it developed. And it's also why there's tensions between, you know,

the ruling Likud regime contra you know the people they call the ultra orthodox as well as others like Zionism isn't just this organic movement of you know like nationalist minded Jewish people

indigenous to the Middle East it was very much a European ideology that came out of you know born of sort of like the intellectual culture of of people whose origins were in this were in the pale settlement

and who found their way kind of, you know, far and wide in European urban centers and, and, and intellectual corridors, you know, whether you're talking about, you know, Minsk or Berlin or Warsaw or Zagreb or wherever. But the whole idea was that for the Jewish people to survive, like, as a race. And again, this is, you know, very much grounded in the kind of 20th century sensibility of people's heritage being. you know, born of blood and material quantities. You know, the idea was, well, the Jewish people need to stop being this kind of, you know, they need to stop being this kind of nation without a country. We need a national state. You know, we need that, that guards, you know, Jewish racial blood at all costs.

You know, it's got to be premised on this kind of like communitarian, you know, like military socialism. You know, it's got to, uh, it's got to basically inundate people and it's got a new way of thinking, you know, um, that Jews aren't habituated to do owing to, owing to their kind of peculiar heritage. Um, not like, like politically, I mean, you know, in their kinds of modes of life. And that's why, for example, you know, and again, I'm not, I'm not saying this punitively. Like, why, why is, why do people speak Hebrew with Israel? That'd be like if people like me, said we suddenly decided we're going to start like writing in Viking ruins. Like why don't

they speak Aramaic? You know like why why don't they speak like Yiddish or even or even you know whatever dialect that German was common to was common to the Jewish ghetto like why Hebrew you know like it's very much this is very much like a kind of mythology it's like a view of themselves

okay and I'm not even saying that like and Zionism go ahead even even a lot of scholars point to the fact that Hebrew really wasn't even spoken amongst Jews that it was resurrected in the late 19th century. Yeah. Because, you know, if you're going to have a people, you have to have a language.

No, exactly. And so that was, yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. So, I mean, it, and again, too, I mean, there's Zionists, you know, like a Heim Weissman, they were self-conscious. It's not like they were pretending it was something else. But this, this kind of revolutionary sort of, you know, like, top-down restructuring of the Jewish form of life.

You know, that's very much abhorne again of the same historical, historically driven ideological phenomena that gave rise to Marxist Leninism and national socialism. You know, and that's one of the reasons Israel, is anachronistic, okay. And I don't want to go too far afield, but I'm writing some long-form stuff right now about what I call the German Cold War. You know, the DDR, they pursued

an independent course in a lot of ways. I mean, very different than that, pursued by, you know, Chusetsu's Romania or, like, Kiyoslovia. Like, they were 110% in the worst off-pack camp. And, but, you know, they they were they were they were they were kind of like

more of a vanguard of the Stalinist perspective than even the Soviet Union was and um kind of fascinatingly and ironically you know as Gorbachev started implementing peristrike like um

the socialist unity party and the DDR started banning Soviet publications that they considered to be like revisionist and not adequately um orthodox in terms of the ideological line they towed but one of the big the DDR, like the Cubans, they pursued this aggressive revolutionary foreign policy overseas.

You know, and modern Syria is very much, very much owes to East German assistance and development. Like everything from like their military doctrine to their kind of like mixed economy to, you know, their, to the kind of nomenclature of that the Syrian Ba'ath Party, which was very different than the Iraqi Ba'ath Party. I mean, that's one of the reasons why they went to war with Saddam's Iraq in 91. But they were very much in some ways, in some critical, power political ways, you know, the progeny of East Germany. And the East Germans really targeted Israel. Okay, like that's indisputable.

Now, of course, if you read stuff from the era and even some of these academic articles about, you know, cold, war anti-Semitism. Like there were people, like the Bader Meinhoff faction, like they praised the, like, the execution of the Israeli athletes at Munich. You know, like the Japanese army faction. Like they assaulted, you know, they assaulted the Israeli airport and stuff. And I can't remember his name, but one of the guys who, uh... You catch them in the corner of your eye.

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operator, but he was kind of the court intellectual of the Badr-Mindhoff crew. He would openly call, he would openly call Israelis, like, Yudnshin, like, literally Jewish pigs. And, like, that was, that was, like, unthinkable. It would be unthinkable to talk about, like, any other, like, population that way, like, in East Germany, you know, but, so there's something, I mean, obviously, I mean, I basically accept 100%, like, Yonkees. paradigm about what happened in the Cold War and how Zionism was the final catalyst to put, you know, the Eastern Block and the Israelis and arguably the Jews as a people, you know, like on an enemy footing. But it's, um, but you know, the, uh, one of the things that was keeping Israel alive in terms of its

raison d'etre, but also in practical terms, its sort of conceptual existence was the Cold War. one of the reasons why Israel is having the problems it is now it's not wokeism or what people seem to think you know like in like these kind of commentary circles it's not because people suddenly have developed some like you know quote like liberal idea about Palestine and and racism or something I mean there might I mean that there might be some aspect of that but you know that nothing's changed in that regard it's not like suddenly people are aware of the racial dynamic and they weren't you know 10 20 50 years ago, what happened was as the Soviet Union and especially the Third Reich you know, like fade into memory and it's just, you know, and it's just not something that

figures into people's conceptual horizon, even historically in terms of living memory. You know, like this kind of this literally like Jewish racial state, you know, talking about, invoking these kinds of, these apocalyptic kind of

scenarios. to rationalize why it's got to sustain this kind of bizarre and anomalous existence in the kind of globalized planet. Like, that doesn't, people can't conceptualize that anymore. You know, and one of the things, you know, like we talked about, one of the things that killed the Soviet Union, you know, it wasn't just the fact that it's, because I mean like authoritarian and dysfunctional regimes like shambla on indefinitely or they can I mean it happens all the time like what killed the Soviet Union wasn't that people didn't have

freedom or that it had a basket case economy or that um you know it lacked popular legitimacy in a way that you know um could be could only be remedied by your overreliance on punitive measures I mean, those things didn't help any. But at the end of the day, the class struggle paradigm as like an ontological reality, like regardless of like the credibility of that explanation for a human political life and sociological existence, regardless of whether there's any merit to that or not, the punctuated disturbances of modernity, like, you know, really, really disrupted people's lives. you know and that's one of the things that gave marcus's Leninism its momentum as well as its credibility

and when those conditions abated and people couldn't even really conceptualize of them anymore you know because two-thirds of the population had been born after those occurrences took place and things you know there's no longer a context of sovietism you know it's it's this became incoherent and in large part that's where israel is now um You know, and that's one of the things, that's one of the reasons why the Holocaust narrative was so essential. Because when they had this, like, monumental power, like totemic power, you know, regardless, even with the Inter-German border no longer existing, even with the Cold War, no longer dividing the planet, it could be said, like, well, you know, the Jews as a people, like Jewish people, Jewish people, you know, they were, they were, they were. revealed the most catastrophic evil that ever existed and you know this could reemerge at any time you know owing to the basic moral frailties of of everybody else and their unique enmity towards the

jews as a people so you know Zionism is essentially like the defensive ramparts that they need you know like um i mean that's nonsense but this had a tremendous um totemic power right I mean, only one number of variables. I don't think something like that could be, I don't think something like that could be constructed now, like such an ideological narrative that had that kind of staying power, and that kind of total, and was kind of that, like, totally insinuated

into political life and conceptual terms, the way that particular narrative was. But, you know, if you look at the history of Israel, go ahead. Can I ask you one? Yeah. So you said it had nothing to do with woke, But I look at, like, Israel, and I look at what they're, you know, what comes out of the government, what they're trying to do. And then I look at, like, Tel Aviv, the gayest city on earth.

That's a clash to me. Oh, no, it is. Yeah, Israel, the government. And then you have Tel Aviv over here, which is just, you know, decadence is Sodom and Gomorrah. That doesn't seem like it's going to work. Oh, no. Their internal situation, absolutely, that's true. I was talking more in terms of world opinion.

my people suddenly in the in the like people apparently like suddenly turned against the jewish state like i mean in terms of um i mean i mean i mean like in america and in the e u and things that's no absolutely it uh it feels a basket case what's also too that's kind of the point i was making is that the people who are kind of like perpetuating jewish life you know there are these like hardline religious elements who really aren't zayas like they're super hardcore like in in their identitarian commitments, but not because of Zionism. They think Zionism is nonsense.

You know, and at worst, they think it's, you know, like blasphemous and like a kind of idolatry. You know, the, it's, and I mean, that's a whole other, that's a whole other paradigm that's rather complicated. But, you could, one could actually say that Israel is multicultural.

Yeah, it is. And a multicultural society, is not going to last. Well, that's why, like, racialism on its own fate, like, just on its own terms, like, doesn't work. You know, I mean, like, it's not, um, not because, like, race isn't real or something or that it's not an essential component of identity and everything else.

But they can't just be, like, the exclusive basis of, you know, your communitarian mandate, you know, because, yeah, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't, um, it doesn't lead anything. It, um, other than, other than some kind of superficial, how much a naity that's, you know, like a mile wide and half an inch deep. But the, what's also what people have to understand is that, you know, kind of the, and I'll get into briefly, I'll kind of break down what white, white nobility's

description is apropos. I think a lot of people don't truly understand what happened in the 1948 war. but you know Israel is always had a problem with getting people who are willing to go live there like Israel is kind of a shithole like again I'm not saying that like oh fuck those people I'm saying do you want to go do you want to go live

in some do you want to go live in some unstable in geostrategic terms you know like densely mass like overpopulated you know country in the desert where um you know

the cost of a living basically to afford the kinds of luxuries we're used to in America or in the EU or Japan, you know, can be astronomical, depending on the world situation, you know, where, you know, it's a day-to-day activity that's kind of limited by the security situation, which is one of like permanent emergency. And also, again, too, it's not, we're not talking about we're not talking about like a guy who, you know, was born in Japan or like born in Spain. or something like going back to the old country like Israel's an ideological

state you know like it's not again it's not it's not kind of like the Jewish way of life as it's been for you know thousands of years in the Near East just like fully realized or something so there was always this problem with getting people to move to Israel you know and

that was one of the reasons for the huge push of the the Jackson Vandek Amendment you know which was obviously premised on you know the need treat Jews as refugees from Soviet anti-Semitism. You know, nobody actually believed that

you know, Brezhnev or Andropov was going to subject these people to a program. The underlying impetus was this is a way to literally get people to Israel, you know, like the Soviets, you know, basically like, basically like bribing the Soviets to

to, um, to hand out visas for free, you know, to any, to any ethnic Jew within Soviet border. you know but they're but but they're you know they're they're they're only um with the understanding that their destination was Israel you know I mean that um and on top of that too you know I've always maintained one of the reasons Rabin was murdered uh and Ihood Barack who's a pretty sensible guy um he's he's he's kind of a man without allies because I mean

he was he was just like a hardline like IDF military guy so people on the left including you know, like Israeli labor types don't like him. He's hugely critical of Likud, so these are hardcore Zionists don't like him. But he all but admits that, you know, Barack was, or Rabin was assassinated. And Rabin was essentially going to end of the permanent emergency, you know, but they, but Israel ceased to do exist if that emergency ever goes away. You know, like I'm not even saying this is consciously within the kind of place. of the inner party of

of liquid or something. I think some people understand this very well, you know, and on a very conscious level. But, you know, Israel needs that they need the, they need the threat of existential siege. They need the threat, or at least the conceptual specter, realistic or not, so long as it, so long as it has credibility within the minds of, you know, the national community there, this idea that you know they're facing oblivion unless

you know they remain this they sustain this constant vigilance that's facilitated by you know this kind of like Spartan socialism you know that's without that Israel doesn't have anything you know without that it's

it's um it uh it's it's going to like evaporate into the pages of history. You know, I think that's inevitable, but it, um, and it's already happening. But that's, that's what,

um, that's what novelty was getting at about Israel. Um, and that's hugely important. And, I mean, just like briefly, too, like, for people who don't accept what, um, except that whole

kind of, that whole kind of paradigm. You know, the the, the 1948 48 war, well, first of all, as any Zionists will enthusiastically remind you, the Arab forces in being and the men with real combat experience, they'd either been the ops of the British Empire or they'd been fighting on the side of the Third Reich, including the Mufti Al-Husini, who was, had been branded a war criminal,

and had fled Berlin at the 11th hour and you know was basically it was basically like living a living a vagrant life of a wanted man or an internet life rather so there was a unique vulnerability in terms of in terms of the Arab population of Palestine

and their ability to defend themselves you know, at least contra their their Zionist adversaries. What we think of as like the 1948 war or the liberation war or the war of Israeli

independence or whatever court history calls it, we're essentially talking about Haganas, what they called plan D, which was the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. even though it was clear they were going to get their way in some sense with the UN partition Truman was not enthusiastic about

it and ironically the only people who were were the Soviet Union and that rapidly they were the Soviets rapidly reversed course on that but that's outside the scope we're talking about right now but um

the uh the uh the uh gana ergun um this the stern gang, they all, they all realize that even if they got, um, even if they got like, you know, um, fully half of, uh, the land in question, they still had a demographic problem.

You know, they still, they still have their backs against the wall, um, in terms of, you know, as regards to the bound irrationality of what they were trying to accomplish. And that was, you know, a Jewish racial state wherein, you know, the entirety of a mandate Palestine, um, was in their hands, you know, demographically, militarily, and otherwise. So in March 948, Plan B kicks off. And Zionist paramilitary elements was the first time they were under a unified command. Really, all the Palestinian Arabs had was, they had Abda al-Qaeda, al-Husani,

and a man named Hassan Salameh. They succeeded in cutting the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. And had there been the forces in being to assault, they might have had the manpower to seize Jerusalem.

And that would have been a game changer, in my opinion. But be as it may, the Zionist leadership realized they had to act systematically and they had to act now not just because of the possible Palestinian

offensive to preempt what they were planning but they discern that there might very well be a change in the international situation in particular kind of like Washington D.C.'s

mood towards the concept of a Jewish state and you know just as um as kind of the cold war uh hardened in terms of you know the national alliance structure they they thought that their ambitions would probably be sacrificed i mean you can argue that either way but um again in terms of what in terms of in terms of in terms of Zionism as an idea, you know, and like we talked about in Nolte's view, which I think is correct,

ideas of their own animating force. You know, this Zionist project had to be seen through or would die, especially at that juncture. Don't let foot pain or discomfort hold you back. At foot solutions, we specialize in high-quality supportive footwear and use the latest scanning technology to custom-make orthotics. for your unique feet. If you want to free your feet

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At foot solutions, we specialize in high-quality supportive footwear. And use the latest scanning technology to custom-make orthotics, designed for your unique feet. If you want to free your feet in joints from pain, improve balance or correct alignment, book a free foot assessment at footsolutions.i or pop in store today. Foot Solutions, the first step towards pain-free feet. So the clinic of Palestine, it really went into full operation in April and May of 48. It had two, and really only two like basic objectives.

The first was to swiftly and systematically take any installations evoked by the British, civilian military or infrastructural, you know, to occupy them, repurpose them as the infrastructure for the nascent state and in the short term, you know, employ them as needed in, you know, the duration of the military operation at hand, which also gave them a huge advantage. they also they were able to facilitate this because there was a minority of pro-Zionist British officers on the ground

and there's still this element in the British ruling establishment which and people could write the entire values under why that is especially in this era especially in the era in question when British soldiers and civilians had died at the hands of Ergun and other Zionist elements I mean, this completely stupefies me, but

there was enough support on the ground for Zionists among the British garrison, which was in the process of bugging out, you know, that this eased them, the kind of tactical burden on accomplishing these things. The Palestinians had no, had no such advantage, okay? And they're also, again, you know, the palace, what was the Palestinian leadership, they were access adjacents. You know, so they were wanted men. And if they weren't formally wanted, you know, they certainly would have become targeted if they reemerged.

You know, so this idea that, oh, the Palestinians are just, you know, they're just fools. there's just, you know, savages who couldn't mobilize this complete bullshit. I mean, regardless how anybody feels about the Palestinian cause or anything, that's just not true. The second and the most important, obviously, aspects or ambition of Planned D and of the war generally, it was to ethically cleanse what was to be the future Jewish state. of as many Palestinians as possible. The main direct action element of the Zionist was Higana,

which had several brigades. Each brigade was assigned a village or a township to occupy. And almost all of these villages were ordered to be destroyed. And, you know, the people expelled or outright killed. And some of these, this led to some difficult situations, especially in mixed areas where there wasn't great support for the Zionist cause, I mean, for obvious reasons, where, you know, you had Zionist paramilitaries literally extricating people's Arab neighbors. And in some cases, there were intermarriages and things, you know, like very ugly stuff. there was the most

what really was kind of a game changer in terms of in terms of world opinion as well as in in terms of what truly radicalized not just the Palestinians on ground but the sympathetic

Arab regimes especially those populated by you know by Sunnis and, you know, Palestine is a Sunni majority. April 20th, auspicious date, 1948,

the Dariusan massacre and Haifa. Higana assaulted Haifa, and everybody, everybody was killed regardless of age sex. overall health, you know, women's children, it didn't matter. And it was, it was very, it was very chaotic.

There's some reports of trophy taking from the dead, mutilation of the dead, like people taking noses and ears. There were reports that were fairly substantiated of young girls and women being raped. You know, this was not, this was not some well executed, you know, like clean, kind of like IDF operation or something. Okay. It was, uh, it was an ugly and brutal grass and creak in all the worst ways. Um, and the response to that was, as this kind of, as world opinion kind of became outraged by this, you know, this sinus leadership, they took to these kinds of, they took to these sort of performance.

informative endeavors of, you know, publicly encouraging Palestinians to remain in these mixed areas, you know, saying, you know, you'll have come to any harm and, you know, everybody's rights are going to be honored in the future Jewish state. I mean, which was, I mean, even if that was sincere on the part of political cadres, I've no reason to think it was, but I mean, let's say it was, you know, the situation on the ground was what it was, and it had its own momentum. And it had its own momentum. And it, it it couldn't be stopped at that point, in my opinion. You know, but all told, all told about three quarters of a million Palestinians were, you know, expelled from the land. You know, probably about 20,000 people were killed outright. And again, this was not excluded in military age males, quite the contrary. It was, you know, categorically. but that um you know the uh and again the the the british had an arms embargo on mandate Palestine Truman again was no friends of the Zionist regime I mean even after you

know victory was declared in May of 48 Truman issued a de facto recognition that, you know, of the Zionist state, you know, but he refused a de jure acknowledgement of their legitimacy. The Soviet Union was the first state to provide that. And the designous elements on the ground, you know, Haganah, first among them, they'd gotten the small arms that they were able to procure were largely from the East block. you know um and it goes to show you how

the reason why Moscow envisioned Israel as Zionist Israel as being adjacent to them ideologically I mean part of it I mean it is because again I mean in all these point

um you know Zionism wasn't is the progeny of the same nexus of causation um as where the other you know great European ideologies

of the 20th century. I mean, I believe from where Stalin was sitting, he probably viewed he probably viewed the treatment of the Palestinians and the way that he viewed his own treatment of the nationalities. And well, you know, this is a way of creating a tabular rasa

so that, you know, some kind of Israeli socialism can be built. You know, um, um, and the reason why, And again, I mean, the reason why that was an idea that could be entertained, you know,

and Stalin was the consummate realist, you know, it wasn't prone to flights of fantasy. It made sense why he would think that, you know, but ultimately developed, you know, again, to, with the East Block being, you know, rabidly anti-Zionist and, and, and, you know, and, you know, and the DDR carrying on like literally an active war against the Jewish state. You know, I think that, I mean, that's demonstrative of Knowlety's point

too. I mean, all this stuff, I don't see how people can reject the kind of the kind of Higalian view of history. I mean, with some qualifications, obviously, when they look at how these things actually developed. You know, I mean, we're not, we're not just talking about arguments between historians and kind of academic

ivory tower cloisters. You know, we're talking about you know, war and peace phenomenon that actually developed and was dispositive in terms of the outcome of the Cold War. It,

you know, and I think one of the one of the reasons you know, one of the reasons why it was such a pariet state, you know, was for that reason. It wasn't just because

you know in order to it was a convenient sort of ideological framing for the Eastern block to say you know oh this is this is a this is a fascist state like the Bundes Republic but even worse

because it's premised un overtly you know racialist principles you know it was because on some level everybody discerned that there was something

unseemly about Zionism. You know, not because, like, it's Jewish, or not because, you know, of anything intrinsic to the Jewish character. If people are going to make that case that they want, I'm saying that's not what, that's not why it was

a kind of natural target for Soviet propaganda. It's because the, um, the first half of the 20th century was it was catastrophic. That goes up saying. Okay.

And even somebody who doesn't accept in ethical or conceptual terms, you know, the claims, the International War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg or the claims of, you know, court historians who

posit this, you know, Sunderberg theory of Germany and invoke Hitler as some kind of a... That's some kind of standing for Lucifer. Even somebody else, accept that at all. You know, saying you've got to accept this sort of exceptional state that's premised on this sort of like rabid racial nationalism, the structures of which, although

superficially similar to familiar ones, are basically all oriented towards, you know, the maintenance of this totally abnormal, you know, sociological and military paradigm. You just got to accept all this, you know, because it's essential when we do, you know, these, and the reasons presented are things that, you know, kind of like remind people the darkest, kind of like the darkest times, the inner war years, and what was suggested as being necessary for the survival of the race or the ascended working class or whatever else. I mean, it's not something that people wanted to think about, you know, and it's not something that people felt comfortable with, you know,

kind of raising as the banner of legitimacy regardless of what they felt about, or if they had any opinion about, you know, like, Jewish people and Zionism. And that's, um, and that's also something Nolte said in one of his last collection of essays. He said that

ultimately, you know, Zionism has to either fulfill its sort of internal mission, you know, as a monument, idea it's not historically contingent you know because Nolte

agreed with Carl Schmitt in that regard and Heidegger you know ideas are their own self-contained revelation you know and that's either realized or it's not

and in the case of Israel that's only realized really by some kind of an N-Sig and the end in in in context that would basically mean what you know the the the annihilation of the Palestinians as a people you know um is that possible today i mean physically yeah um is there the political will there i mean to your point about israel being i mean not to sound like some sort of like marxist or something but is is it is it fatally compromised by its own internal contradiction like yeah I think actually maybe it is but even were it not

you know I think I don't think they could I don't think the Israelis could start categorically exterminating the people at Gaza any more than in 1980

Brezhnev could have assaulted Poland you know like the Soviets did Hungary in 56 like it just would have been like unthinkable considering the state of not even just like world opinion, just like conceptually, like what people can tolerate,

you know, morally. Go ahead. It's also, I mean, you talk about it being an anachronism. It seems like, you know, 100 million people were killed

in the first half of the century to prevent states like Israel from existing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So it's this case of special pleading where it's like, oh, but, you know, this is the case of,

This is the case of Israel because, you know, there's all these exceptional circumstances that threaten it. But without, you know, without the Nuremberg narrative having, like, truly kind of punctuated cachet in the collective memory, like, yeah, that just doesn't, it, the people, that, that means nothing to people. So, yeah, exactly, exactly. Like, why, um, and that's the point of many people, too. you know, like when people like me or, you know, some of our right-wing Palestinian and Iranian and

Lebanese friends, when they raise the issue of Israeli racialism, they're not saying like, oh, Israelis are the real racialists. What they're saying is that the regime tells you that everything Israel does is utterly unacceptable in all cases but Israel. Like, that's the point.

Like, the point is on its own terms, like, is racism bad? That that's totally, that's not going to do it um it's why this special pleading and um you know and and and even and even notwithstanding that like why is this such an imperative you know like you can't make the claim like people did during the Cold War that this is an absolute strategic necessity um because for better or worse you know America was in the Cold War and it's enemies were, you know, the client states of the Soviet Union, which were Israel's enemies. Now, how much that owed to the fact of America provoking these circumstances when not practicing

balanced diplomacy, and regardless of whether the Cold War should have been fought or not, like, that's not important. Because, like, America was in the Cold War. And take, like, 1967 or 73, you know, like, the die was cast. you know it's not as if like the brakes could be put on the geostrategic situation as it had developed so yeah there's um you're absolutely right um yeah that's about um there's some other stuff I want to take up but again it's it's it's I kind of want to conclude this like multi-discussion so I want to say that for next time I want to do I haven't decided yet I'm I'm rereading the Sims I'm sorry, biography of Hitler,

which raises really important concepts, including Hitler, contra Roosevelt, and Hitler's understanding of America as not just Germany's primary adversary, but also of, you know,

the future of this planet hinging on, you know, the ability of of civilizations to, they constitute themselves as superpowers and how Europe was coming up short in every in every categorical criteria

contra America and this wasn't just a question of a practical of a military ambition or a practical, you know, war planning and things. It had to do with the entirety of Europe's historical mission

and which would in Hitler's mind would either succeed or or Europe would simply perish. And to understand that is essential understanding Hitler in the war, it's essential understanding Roosevelt. And the fact that Roosevelt and Hitler and the radio addresses were always, like, in dialogue with each other, you know, not with Churchill, not with Stalin, not, you know, with the world generally.

So we could, I was playing with the idea of, you want to, You want to do a few of those with me and, uh, yeah, that's what I'm getting at. I think it'd be better suited to a series that we do rather than me just like doing it on the podcast. Um, but I'd also want to, I'd also don't want to tell you your business in terms of, you know, what. No, that sounds great. Okay. And I wanted to, you know, I wanted to mention everyone to hear this too. Um, Thomas dropped, uh, the first episode of season two, a mine phaser with Jay Burden. And, um, yeah, that was a banger. Yeah, that was good. Oh, thank you, man. No, Byrd is a prince, man.

Like, he's a great guy and a great kind of creator. He's also a dear friend, and he's nice to, everybody always really likes his appearances, man. So that helps me, obviously. He's also, he doesn't allow himself to be trapped inside a box. He has a lot of different influences. And I don't think he really cares what anybody thinks about, you know, about any of them either.

He's just, you know, he has his opinions and I think they're solid. No, he's a great guy. right man he really is i can't i can't um i can't praise him um effusively enough um but yeah no this was great man thanks again um yeah so we'll plan that we'll plan that out privately and um yeah hit some plugs real quick and uh well on this yeah the best place to find me is in my website it's thomas seven seven seven seven seven dot com that if you can like find That's the link to my Twitter. It's a link to my Instagram.

It's a link to my substack. It's a link to my Tgram. And just like random other stuff's on there. But the substack is where the pot is. It's capital R-E-A-L underscore Thomas-777.7.com. Because we've launched season two of mine phaser, I'm going to make the season one content free. I'm probably going to do that on Monday.

like all season one you'll be able to exit for free I may or may not upload it to YouTube or Rumble but for now you can like you don't need any special app or anything you can just listen on

just go to substack.com and anything that's that's not by a paywall and you can just click it and listen to it but yeah that's that's what I got all right until the next time Thank you, as always.