The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1064: A Requiem on the LP Convention w/ The Politicrat

Episode Date: June 9, 2024

62 MinutesPG-13The Politicrat is a writer, podcaster, and student of philosophy and history. The Politicrat went to the recent Libertarian National Convention in Washington, DC, with a press pass. He joins Pete to talk about what he experienced there.The Politcrat's YouTube ChannelThe Politicrat on TwitterVIP Summit 3-Truth To Freedom - Autonomy w/ Richard GroveSupport Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Beacon South Quarter, Dublin, where the smart shoppers go. Two hours free parking, just off the M50, exit 13. It's a Black Friday secret. Keep it to yourself. If you want to support the show and get the episodes early and ad-free, head on over to freemam BeyondtheWall.com forward slash support. There's a few ways you can support me. there. One, there's a direct link to my website. Two, there's subscribe star. Three, there's Patreon. Four,

there's substack. And now I've introduced Gumroad, because I know that a lot of our guys are on Gumroad and they are against censorship. So if you head over to Gumroad and you subscribe through there, you'll get the episodes early and ad-free, and you'll get an invite into the telegram group. So I really appreciate all of the support everyone's giving me. And I hope to expand the show even more than it already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pete Cagnano show. The Politicrat is back.

How are you doing? I'm doing well on yourself. Doing good. Doing good. Remind everybody a little bit about yourself. So I am a content creator. I haven't been particularly active lately. On YouTube primarily, I write guest articles for the OGC.

OGC substack. I currently write for the Mises Wire under my real name. I'm not going to say it here, but it's probably easy for you guys to find out. I studied economics, English literature, and political science at Georgia Mason University. So yeah, I am a creature of the swamp at the moment, as they say. But yeah, no, so I've on my YouTube channel, I've conducted interviews. like I've interviewed people mostly like libertarian economists like Walter Block, David Friedman. I have sort of one-off live streams. I used to have a show that I haven't really done in a while. But for my one-off live streams, I had people like Pete here on, I had like James Kirkpatrick, folks like that.

So I want to get back into it a little bit this summer. It's just been crazy, busy this past these past six months, especially since I got engaged. I'd say quite a quite a varied group there when you mention Block and Friedman and then you mention myself and Greg Hood. Oh yeah, no, absolutely. That's kind of part of my gimmick. I like to anyone who wants to come on talk about things I'm willing to have on and I will reach out to and invite on.

I've just noticed people who are like on the actual left who I have reached out to before an interesting pattern. I think a lot of us had known they've they're just not interested in talking to us so well that's good I appreciate them for that because it basically allows allows us nowhere lines are drawn and allows a friend-demy to be very distinct yeah so I've stopped reaching out like as of like two years ago like I don't even bother anymore so especially as I've gotten kind of more to the DR side of things so the we're going to talk about the fact that you were at the Libertarian National Convention two weekends ago, right? Yes.

Not just as past, yeah, two weekends ago. But you mentioned something that seems like Walter Block has officially been excommunicated from the Mises Institute and from the Ron Paul Institute for, oh, is it peace and prosperity, I think it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a scholar there this past summer. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting, especially since, you know, Hapa was so vehemently against everything Walter Block's been doing.

What's your commentary on that? My comment, so my commentary on that is I understand exactly where Walter Block is coming from like that. That's his people. Like, I mean, I understand why he might, he would have a strong emotional reaction and desire to defend them on that side. However, on the other side, it's kind of hypocritical from a libertarian perspective to take a side as strongly as that to basically go into full. I hate the term Zionist, but to go into full quote-unquote Zionist mode, it is a little bit hypocritical.

And I'm not surprised by the backlash that he got. Again, I'm sympathetic towards where he is coming from. but I just I don't think it's a hill that is really worth dying on I'd expect this from somebody like Yaron Brook and the Iron Rand Institute but Walter Block it just it came as a bit of a shock to me so but yeah well when it comes to the whole Israel Palestine thing like I don't I'm not really on either side like I think I think Israel's whining and I think that Palestine is cringe so

That's pretty much my take on the whole thing, if I'm going to be very simplistic about it. But, yeah. That's, whiny is an interesting word. Okay. All right. Let's talk about libertarian party politics, something that I was actually involved with for a short period of time. I actually went to two conventions. Really?

I believe I went to 2020 Georgia Convention. I never, no, I've never been to a national convention. 2020 Georgia Convention and the 2021 Georgia Convention. I went to both of those. I really would have rather been at the dentist at both of them. It was, it's just unbearable. All these things you have to go through to while you're sitting there and you, you know, you're realizing we have no chance of basically winning anything.

Were you a delegate? Yeah, I was a delegate both times. But you went to the National Convention. This one was in Washington, D.C., of all places, you know, the swamp, which they're supposed to, you know, was supposed to be the devil to the libertarians. Why did you decide to go? I was in, I saw that it was this next week, or that next, that following weekend. again I was at the I mentioned you privately before this began I was at the Mises Institute the weekend before that for the human action conference where we had the pleasure of hearing from homs herman hoppa came all the way from turkey but so I was I don't know if you know Tho right I'm guessing of course yeah so yeah no so I was I was having beers with Tho and a couple of the other guys turnip seed David Brady a couple of those those guys after I think it was I think it was on Friday evening and I just

saw on my Twitter feed that the Libertarian National Convention was this upcoming weekend. And so I just asked though, I was like, hey, remember when you let me go to CPAC and I got a press pass for the Mezes Institute? He's like, yeah, why? I said, well, the LPNC is coming up this weekend, too. And I mean, it might be worth going if I can get content for a potential article. And then he's like, yeah, no, sure, go ahead. And so I made time that next weekend, didn't have anything to do. I live in Fairfax, but I ended up making the financially irresponsible mistake to get a hotel in the city and spend the next two days at the convention. It wasn't particularly it wasn't as fun as CPAC, I'm going to say that, but there were definitely some interesting

parts. And let's just say, I've never been a member of the Libertarian Party. I've never I've just never liked party politics in general on principle I have always been independent regardless of my own political leanings which do lead more libertarian but let's just say that whatever what whatever little faith I had in the libertarian party to begin with is completely absent as of this this past weekend well let's get into that I um I pretty much abandoned libertarianism after I went to pork fest in 2021. In my mind was already, I was already, you know, pretty much not even reading the doctrine anymore and was deep into other thinkers. But, you know, these are still my people and everything. People I've known for years want to hang out with

them. But this was a whole new group of people. And I think once I realized that, you know, my life, I had taken a really hard right turn with my life and not only in my politics, but also in my personal life, that being around, I was around a lot of people who were family people, who were, you know, people who were like Mesascaucus people who tend to be like that family, things like that, you know, yeah, yeah, I know exactly, more leaning towards the right. But then, you know, you realize that as long as you're carrying this label, and then you're, that you're going to be associated with this other group of people

that are, have basically glommed on to libertarianism because it's live and let live, as long as you don't hurt someone else, everything is permissible kind of thing, that that's the way they see libertarianism, and now you're associated with them. And if I don't even believe their politics anymore,

the whole political theory of whatever they have, why would I be associated in a social way with people that I would never choose to, I wouldn't want to live across the street, you know, live in the same town as. So, I know that's, I didn't ask a question. Did you see a lot of that there at the convention? Not as much really as I expected. I mean, with the exception of its reeking of cannabis, outside the hotel, which didn't bother me nearly so much as it did my, my fiance.

But there was a bit of that. I noticed compared to, even compared to LibertyCon, which I did go to back in early February, which is like the Libertarian CPAC, and was a lot, it was a lot more upscale than the LPNC. But people just weren't dressed as nice, weren't as presentable. and I understand like as a libertarian conference it's kind of what you should expect but but yeah no it was I wouldn't say I didn't seem much like quote unquote

degeneracy while I was there but I mean it was it was honestly pretty much about what I expected it was stereotypically libertarian what does that mean to you I don't know just the whole like the I don't know

you basically got the I believe in the right for gay immigrant couples to defend their marijuana plants with guns. Like, that was kind of the vibe. I can't really explain it any better than that, but it was very milk toast, just like your typical milk toast libertarianism. That was like the aesthetic to it,

if that makes sense. Those people who love going out shopping for Black Friday deals, they're mad, aren't they? Like, proper mad. Brenda wants a television and she's prepared to fight for it. If you ask me,

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Part of expert electrical. See it, buy it, get it tomorrow. Or you know, fight Brenda. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28th to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open,

the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. Did you know, those Black Friday deals everyone's talking about? They're right here at Beacon South Quarter. That designer's sofa you've been wanting, it's in Seoul, both concept and Rocheburoix. The Dream Kitchen, check out at Cube Citchens. Beacon South Quarter, Dublin, smart shoppers go two hours free parking just off the m50 exit 13 it's a black friday secret keep it to yourself let me ask you this do you how do you um how do you explain a having a sign like famously there's trump they have pictures of trump in front of a sign that says ungovernable and the a in that is a in that is a obviously an anarchist a How do you explain a political party flashing around anarchist, anarchist signs everywhere?

It was just that, well, it was a silly juxtaposition. Honestly, like most libertarians aren't anarchists, aren't anarcho-capitalists. I honestly, the reason they made that sign, I think it all boils down to like a design choice that they didn't even think out. They're like, oh, wow, we're going to look so edgy. We're going to look so like anti-state if we put this. And the juxtaposition with Trump right up there speaking was just very, it's just very silly. Like, I mean, on one hand, it was kind of historic for a former sitting president to come in address a third party. And so I appreciate that Trump managed actually went out of his way to do that.

On the other hand, Trump is a bit of a whore. Pardon my language, but like he's going to basically go out and market himself to any group, Which is kind of a smart strategy on his part. But yes, I think the main reason he went and out and did that was for attention. Of course, he wants to get votes from all different constituencies. But I think when it came time for the Trump speech, he was not really expecting as many people to be unreceptive towards him as usual. He's used to people going out and lauding him, people worshipping him in some cases.

Well, let's come back to Trump because there were a couple other there were a couple other people there who um you know who were interesting in their own right um were you there and um did you have a chance to meet and talk to or um i assume you saw a va vevec talk i actually was not there in time for um to hear vivake talk um i didn't get there until a little bit later on friday we still had to check into our hotel and everything so unfortunately i really wanted to though i wanted to see what he had to say Okay, did you RFK? Yeah, I was there for RFK.

So what was that like? Let's just say that his speech seemed very, very catered. And I know that's the best way to put it, because it's clear that he's not a libertarian. He is a leftist, which is, which is absolutely hilarious when I'm just going to take a little side tangent to say, when you look on Twitter, when RFK post stuff, you have the RFK reply guys now, which are basically like vote blue no matter who Democrats who say, you're basically just like Trump. You're actually a right winger. Your, your father and uncle will be ashamed of you. They don't believe in anything you believe in, which I remember, I responded to one of them the other day,

and I said, you're right. They would be appalled by his stance on abortion. And they would be, they would be appalled by his stance on abortion and higher taxes. So, but yeah, no, either way. So he's clearly not a libertarian and I understand the crossover appeal and I personally wouldn't even like rule out voting for him in November if it came down to it but at the same time he is not a libertarian he there is crossover appeal especially with his critique of the pandemic or of how the pandemic was handled definitely speaks to a lot of people from all over the political spectrum but it seemed like he was picking and choosing specific aspects of his policy that he believes and will downplaying the very non-libertarian parts of his policy as well.

And again, it was basically exactly what I expected it to be. It wasn't a particularly charismatic speech, but at the same time, it wasn't a horrible speech either. He mostly highlighted on the Bill of Rights and how we can't like government. Once we concede aspects of the Bill of Rights, then we basically concede the nation as a whole, which is very ironic coming from him because, of course, he's against the Second Amendment. Well, I mean, it's also you're late to the party. Yeah, I mean, you can see the bill of rights was, there, there is no bill of rights.

Anyway, what are you, what are you trying to hold on to? You know, I mean, sure, the whole ideas, the ideas behind it. What was it? Just this morning, there was a video going around about two minutes and one of the typical old Twitter videos, two minutes and 19 seconds of Scalia, testifying before Congress and just going, what is the Bill of Rights? He goes, every Banana Republic has a bill of rights. He said the Union of Soviet Socialist, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics had a bill of rights that granted more freedom than ours. What good did it do them? And he actually spelled it out and showed how they actually had more,

there's more liberty in their Bill of Rights than in ours. It's like, what good did it do for them? And if you're talking about the Bill of Rights, yeah, yeah, if you're talking about the Bill of Rights, I ripped it and I put it on my Facebook, I retweeted it, but I ripped it, put it on my Facebook. And I'm like, here, here's your Bill of Rights. You know, it's like, yeah, Liberia has our Constitution. How are they doing?

Yeah, not very well at all. Yeah, yeah, what are these pieces of paper mean? That's what I can never understand. That's one of the reasons I just had to get out of libertarianism is because it's like you have these abstract ideas that, I mean, when you look at them, it's like, yeah, these make me feel good. They make sense. It really, it should be like this.

But, you know, it's like when libertarians say, oh, what is conservatism always, you know, what is conservatism ever conserved? and then you go back to libertarians and you're like, okay, so what liberty has libertarianism ever brought about? And like, well, it's an ought. Okay, great.

It's an ought. There's a lot of aughts in the world that are never going to materialize. I mean, the only quote unquote liberty I can think of them is like, within the past 20 years, nothing having to do with property rights, nothing really having to do with war.

It's just been like, what? gay marriage and weed like like yeah they did the progressive yeah they're 100% in line with the progressives specifically yeah the only thing that libertarian the only thing that libertarians ever the only freedoms they ever get are the same exact freedoms that are progressive would have no problems with and and i mean i understand there are some of them who deeply care about the property rights and the wars issues which is um mostly like like with the misas caucus that was those are pretty much their their whole purpose was to try to more mainstream those and to make those the first priority um that really been no successes and on that front and you even have some libertarians who are like why are you making those the most important things don't you

don't you care about like these these civil liberties more and then you have even have like the the the left ones who are calling people in the mesas caucus fascists it's like what is fascist about them it's like I know fascists I've talked to fascists I'm I'm friends with a couple of fascists they they share nothing in common with these people in the Mises caucus is it's just it's just ridiculous and juvenile like all this all this bickering and concern for basically I guess issues that are comparatively more frivolous well I I recall a couple years ago hearing you know at least a couple of the the big libertarian names talking about January 6th and how, you know, once you have these wars of empire,

once they run out of those, they're just going to point it back at the, at home, and they're going to declare war on their own people. Okay, so you can, while you were talking for the last couple years, two or three years, while you were talking about Yemen, and while you were talking about any war that's happening overseas, anything, you know, what's happening in Gaza now or Ukraine or things like that, there's been an open war on white people at home, which is clear, which most, you know, a lot of people see now. Even normies are starting to see it. Okay. What do you?

Why are you appealing? I mean, if you have a political party, you want to appeal to Americans. You want to get Americans on your side, right? Mm-hmm. Americans are more interested in what's happening here than what's happening overseas. Why aren't you talking more about domestic issues?

And why does it all have to be about money? You know, people understand. And people know that the, people can see the inflation. Explaining to them how the inflation happens, that's great. They don't care. They want to know how you solve the inflation problem. They want to know what you're doing. They want to know why it's happening.

Libertarians should have spent the last three or four years explaining that there's a war on heritage Americans. and then people will start listening to you. Even Connink doesn't do that. Because Connink is scared, because Connink worships the Civil Rights Act of the 60s just as much as the left does. They don't want to get rid of that. They don't want to get rid of freedom of association.

They don't even consider it. If you want to appeal to people at home, If you want to appeal to Americans, if you want to grow your party, well, you're going to have to talk to them about issues that are affecting them on a daily basis. And no matter how you try to explain it to them, the war in Yemen is not, that is not affecting them as much as, you know, the fact that white people, white men have trouble getting jobs because they get DEIed out of jobs. and the fact that the war, the inflation war, is just another war against them. There's no, I mean, I understand that it is, you know, when you start talking about that white people actually have interests, I mean, it's okay for Jewish people to have their own interests, it's okay for black people have their own interests, Hispanics, whomever, it's okay for them to have their own interests.

I understand that it's, you know, the third rail to give that podcast a plug, that the, that white interests, you know, are verboten, but somebody's going to have to start talking about it. And in the moment somebody does, they're given all these, given all these labels. Like, again, the moment anybody. questions, hey, maybe this thing is a little anti-white. They're immediately smeared by, like, as like a white supremacist or something like that. It's been like that for you. And then you go, and you look at them and you go, and, okay, what now what you got? Beyond that, beyond that,

what do you got? Yeah, no, that's really all they have. And then it's the, it's, yeah, no, they're good. Because I guess it's labels like that. Um, uh, somebody will get sensitive as soon as they are accused of being something like that just because of what power that sort of language has in that particular accusation has. So, like, I mean, I think in certain cases when people are smeared as that, and they're not even advocating for, like, quote unquote, racism anyway, but they're still labeled that. They should just shove that. They should just shove that off and be like, well, I mean, if that's what you want to call it,

whatever, that's not what it is, but if you want to call it that, I don't give a shit. Like, that's what. that's probably the mindset that certain people need to start taking. Those people who love going out shopping for Black Friday deals, they're mad, aren't they? Like, proper mad.

Brenda wants a television and she's prepared to fight for it. If you ask me, it's the fastest way to a meltdown. Me, I just prepare the fastest way to get stuff and it doesn't get faster than Appliancesdelivered.a.e. Top brand appliances, top brand electricals, and if it's online, it's in stock. With next day delivery in Greater Dublin. Appliances delivered.

Part of Expert Electrical. See it, buy it, get it tomorrow. Or you know, fight Brenda. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle New Bridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. more to value. Did you know, those Black Friday deals everyone's talking about? They're right here at Beacon South Quarter.

That designer's sofa you've been wanting. It's in Seoul, Boe Concept, and Rocheboubaugh. The Dream Kitchen, check out at Cube Kitchens. Beacon South Quarter Dublin, where the smart shoppers go. Two hours free parking, just off the M50, exit 13. It's a Black Friday secret. Keep it to yourself. Yeah, I mean, people are, you're going to get called what you're going to get called.

I mean, when I was still involved with the Mises caucus, fascists, homophobes, all this stuff. It's like, and so what, and so what? You know, I mean, I'm going to be called a transphobe for not wanting you to mediate little kids, then fine, that makes me a transphob. Well, whatever, I don't give it. I don't give a damn. Just embrace it. I mean, if you're going to, if you're going to lose donations anyway, if you're going to

lose people at me at least take a freaking principled stand i mean beyond you know it's like look if if you take an anti-war stand if you take an anti-federal reserve stand and they're not kicking your door down doors down if they're not threatening to defund you or debank you well maybe that's not a dangerous stand at all maybe they're very happy with you taking that stand maybe it's taking the stands that it actually becomes dangerous, that's when you start becoming a thorn in their side. Well, and until you do that, well, then you're pretty much just, they don't care about you. You're just a fly buzzing. You're just a fly buzzing around them. Yeah. I mean, but then you get into the, you get into the question, like, what are they going to do to you?

Are they going to January 60 basically? Are they going to try to find a reason to lock you up? And then especially if these people have families to feed, if they have lives, then that's why some people are so scared to say what they believe because they're afraid their lives are going to get ruined, that their families are going to starve, especially for those who aren't as, who are not as wealthy.

So. Sure, you know, and if, If that's an issue, okay? If there is a chance that you, your life, you know, they could turn your life upside down. Well, it pretty much tells you you're over the mark, first of all. But second of all, maybe this isn't for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe this, maybe this isn't for you. And if you're, if you're perfectly, you know, if you've had a Twitter account since, 2016 that has never been suspended and you think you're a dissident. I mean, I had my Twitter account will get suspended when I was a libertarian. Oh, yeah, I'm saying. I had two suspended back back in those days. Yeah, I mean, so.

The first one I was, I was, the first one was suspended for calling Charlie Kirk or retard. Well, I mean, don't speak the truth. Well, you know, and Charlie's got, hey, what, what, let's talk, you know, you know, know anyone who's like seen some Charlie interviews recently and there have been some good ones he may be he may be coming around I think Michael Knowles has started to come around a little bit too but I think um but Matt Walsh I think's gone a little bit off the deep end yeah well I mean it's when you when you start threatening people's pocketbooks you know especially if they're reliance upon um you know money from

Is it okay to use the term Zog, Zog companies that are financed by Zog? And let's face it, some of those companies are, you know, a little suspect. All the money in some cases. Like, I mean, it shouldn't even be controversial to point that out. No, no. But the, all right, so let's get back to the convention. Yeah. So you say you didn't really see much like,

Yeah, I know Dave Smith has been talking about how some guy ran up to him in a thong and wanted to debate him on open borders. That's pretty much what I think a lot of people think of when they think of the Libertarian Party. I do think the funniest moment, though, was when, so there was a, they were given away free rubber chickens at the conference. and secret service forbade rubber chickens from being at the Trump event yet somebody managed to sneak a rubber chicken past secret service and then a fight broke out between him and a Trump supporter because he started hitting him with a rubber chicken when he got mad because he was shit-faced so that's the libertarian convention for you yeah what were the chickens supposed to be like chicken hawk or something like I mean was that I don't even under get the reference I think R of K was giving them out I don't know I ended up I ended up getting one because I was like oh this might be nice for my dog but I left it back at my apartment and I'm visiting my family right now otherwise it might have had like an RFK slogan on

it but I forget that's hilarious all right so what was the there had to be like tons of buildup to Trump and everything not really it wasn't like defect oh really no I mean At CPAC, Trump arrived an hour and a half late. And then at this one, he only showed up 30 minutes late. But it was like, I mean, I guess the build, like there was the same, it had the same like vibe, I guess. But only after like you passed through Secret Service and you were waiting for it to start. I mean, there was no big like build up in the same way as they were with like the speakers at CTA.

So. Well, did party leadership try to get people to give speeches before, try to get people to be like, hey, don't heckle, don't be rude, don't be disrespectful? Yeah, I mean, Angela did at one point. And then Mike Lee was there and ended up going up. And I guess he was sort of like the hype man for Trump. And then there are no real speeches, but I know so there were a lot of Trump. Trump people or people who were not part like libertarians who came in just to see Trump speak because they had like a separate ticket that was sold

And as as media I could get in for free But yeah, there were They were all trying to take the front seats because they're like yeah, we're Trump supporters we deserve to be in the front But then but then Angela came out and said nope everybody all Trump supporters who got tickets just for this you got to go to the very back we got to save the front and for delegates and for people who paid to come to the conference so so yeah there was there's a lot of a lot of the people like in the full-blown maga gear were a little pissed because of that a lot of them couldn't understand no this is this is a lulbert conference this isn't this isn't like a mac a conference so so when trump when trump gets up there um i don't i've never been to

Trump speech. I mean, I've seen a couple of them on TV. It's they're incoherent to say the least. As it seems like he's bouncing all over the place. And there's so many, not even non-sequiters, just like the little catchphrases he puts in there. And then he does the faces and everything like that. So it's really weird and kind of hard to follow what kind of speech was this because I didn't watch it. I don't know that I will, but what was he talking about? So I'm going to preface this by comparing it to or by laying out what his CPAC speech was like back in late February. Because that is exactly how you just described it. It started out with him like doing 10 minutes of shoutouts to everybody who are like who supports him.

It's like, oh, look at Steve Bannon over there. Oh, my favorite, Nigel Farage, like doing that whole that whole spiel. And then he starts going. And I ended up putting this in my, because I did a full expose on CPAC for as an OGC guest article. And I mentioned this, but his speech was very incoherent. It seemed like story time with the Donald. It was basically, it was basically him talking about how complaining about Joe Biden's dogs, comparing himself to Al Capone, talking about Hannibal Lecter, and talking about. about how Molania always, never compliments his speeches.

That's literally what it was. And juxtaposed with some silly, like apocalyptic rhetoric, it basically sounded as if, it sounded like he was ripping his speech off of like a high school theater kid running for class president. That's basically what it sounded like. Compared to-

Let me ask you a question. Do you think he, Did he have teleprompters? Was that written for him or was he just going off the cuff? He was going off the cuff. I think he was probably on Adderall or something. And I know that's kind of a meme where it's like the left. Oh my God, he's on drugs.

But it's like, honestly, yeah, we probably was. I mean, I'm not, but pretty much everybody's on some prescription medication at this point. Oh, yeah. Exactly. I mean, I'll even admit it. I am too. Like, I mean, everyone's just drugged out of their minds these days. And what I know this is a bit of a tangent, but what pisses me off when you see like all these little kids, these like who simply are just kids and they can't pay attention to all the, the boring way the school system is set up.

And they're just drugged out of their minds, become zombies. Man. All right. So, all right. But compared to CPAC compared to the libertarian one, like he was actually more coherent for the libertarian speech. But I think he did, he was because he knew he had to be. because there was a specific reason he was there. That was to court libertarian votes.

And he made an interesting pitch. And I'd say he made valid points as to why maybe libertarians should vote for him for pragmatic reasons. Number one, you take a look at his foreign policy, which was the most realist foreign policy we've had since Richard Nixon. He didn't mention that specifically, but that is the case. In addition to that, and I want to say realist, I mean defensive real, like defensive realist, but in addition to that, he cut taxes. Those were his really two, the two big ones that he named. Oh yeah, the Supreme Court justices, the constitutionalist ones. So that would be like specifically Gorsuch and to a lesser extent, Kavanaugh.

And then he made vows that he would, oh, I'm going to appoint libertarians to cabinet positions. When I talked to Angela afterwards, I got a quote from her. She actually seems to think he was sincere about that and wasn't just talking out of his ass. I can't say either way on that one, but hopefully he was telling the truth. And then I had received, me and the rest of the media had received about an hour ahead of time reports that he was going to mention freeing Ross Ulbrick who in case the audience doesn't know he was the founder of the of the Silk Road he got life in prison so Silk Road again for those you don't know it was a drug black market on the dark web but so he uh he vowed to

commute a sentence that was where pretty much everyone unanimously cheered so um he did make a he made a uh a coherent for why it might be appealing for libertarians to vote for him and I think a lot more are going to do that now that Chase Oliver was made the libertarian nominee yeah it almost seems like the they couldn't have planned it any better because the you know even a erected wall or a Josh Smith or even if a Dave Smith would have run it would have taken votes away from Trump most likely yeah yeah you know, that's even if you, if you're going to accept that the voting is going to be on the level this year. But I wanted to go back to something you said about him saying he'd put a libertarian as a cabinet member.

I know that there was a couple people he had in the, in the beginning in the first, from, first term from Cato. But, you know, Cato. But the promise of a cabinet member and the freeing Ross, I mean, I don't know that he would even remember that. But, you know, somebody, you know, people around him would probably have to remind him of that. You know, I know Vivek, the one reason I want to ask, I was hoping he had seen Vivek, is because he used to be a libertarian. I think he voted a libertarian in 2004, which would have been, what the hell is that no no driver's license guy name 2004 ran for libertarian benarck yeah michael bit no mike binark i know he voted for him he said he

was a libertarian in high school and a lot of times now he sounds like a neo-reactionary but you know if if he's there as part of part of the trump team he might remember that you know because i mean campaign promises or just campaign promise But, yeah, I mean, he could have, he could have commuted that sentence and Assange and, you know, others previous that. But, you know, I don't even know how many people want Assange. That would be interesting to find out how many people want Assange freed now because, you know, originally Assange was, like, demonized by the right because of things that he released. And then, of course, he's demonized by the Democrats because he basically released stuff that showed that Hillary, you know, the Hillary plots and everything.

The plot against Bernie from the from the Washington Post, things like that. So, I mean, he's pissed off everybody. So I don't really know how many. I'd be interested to see how much of the voting public even once Assange released at this time. It seems like it's mostly the far left and like and caps who are the ones who I don't want to say a vocal minority But I don't think it's as much as like you have these you have these guys like these leftists streamer not streamers but Content creators like Kyle Kulinski who's like actually the majority of Americans want Assange freed are pro snowed and and I don't see that at all I see it. I see it

mostly as as a um just loud loud constituencies as opposed to the majority of america like i don't even know how you even quantify that and that's why these people on the left aren't even worth taking seriously and listening to yeah the whole you know i guess however you feel about asanj and everything he is just basically exposed he exposed secrets to this io empire so I mean, I have a tendency to just be like, it's nice to get that stuff out there because, I mean, they didn't want it out there. Neither side wanted it out there what went out there. So I guess it was good that both things went out there.

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. Yeah, not trying to hold on. I'm not making an attempt to hold on to my libertarianism there. I'm just looking at it. I'm going, okay, who's my enemy? didn't he hurt my enemy my enemy is both sides he hurt both sides so uh maybe you know maybe i throw him in the friend camp yeah no i i definitely i definitely agree with you there so what how much exactly how much booing was there for trump did he and how did he handle it was he uh did he just brush it off

did he do the did he make the faces or what so it wasn't as much as the mean media said it was. So you'll see headlines on the online, I don't know, the usual suspects, CNN, NBC saying Trump booed, Trump booed down by like nearly the, but by a libertarian national convention. It was like maybe a third of the room. And I'm sure there are more who totally disagreed with Trump, but who were actually being like respectful and wanted to hear what he had to say. And then of course you had the Trump supporters who were not booed. It was nowhere near as it wasn't like the entire convention like these outlets tried to make it out to be um i was just sitting there mostly just kind of recording a couple bits of what he had to say

and taking notes um i was actually right up i was like meters away from him i managed to get like a seat right up front um but yeah so he i mean he he his reaction to a lot of the booing it was kind of Like being passive aggressive. Like he was like, oh, you know, you could vote for me or you can just get your free percent. It's fine with me either way. This is kind of funny. But, I mean, you could tell that he wasn't used to the booing, though. You could see it on his face.

And he did stutter a little. But, I mean, he didn't, it didn't mess up his flow or anything. I don't really think it wasn't this. It wasn't a big deal. It was anybody would have pretty much expected what. went on there if you haven't been living under a rock for the past eight years yeah yeah that's yeah that's good yeah when you say like a third of the room i'm just thinking in the more left-leading libertarians probably yeah yeah because of the division i've heard from there is about a third of it

seemed to be that kind of crowd who no matter what he said and everything i'm still mind boggled that, you know, you still see people using like the blood-soaked monster. I said, all right, whatever. I'm just, I will say when he did do the Free Ross thing, that was pretty, there was pretty much a unanimous cheer. So I do need to point out. Even the people who are booing cheered for that. So I think that is worth pointing out.

It's interesting. What about what else did you see there? Um, nothing much really. I mean, there were, I, there were private breakfasts and lunches with speakers, with those tickets costs. Costs, those were private events. Um, I ran into Tim Poole and ended up getting a quote from him. Uh, he was pretty much on the, like, all, I mean, I got like a five minute quote from him and, but if I'm to sum it up, it was basically like, yeah, no, he's pretty, Trump is pretty much libertarian. his best chance, which is pretty much what I was expecting. And I know Tim is not on the right, but he's kind of more sympathetic towards some dissident voices to a minor extent. I'm not surprised that he had the position on Trump because I know he's definitely not a libertarian either.

But yeah, no, I mean, there wasn't really... Then, of course, there were your libertarian partisans. I ran into Larry Sharp, who's a two-time gubernatorial candidate. I have had him on my show before once about three years. He's been on Rogan. Yeah, he has been in Rogan. And he was also back in the day. God, I cringe when I say his name, but he was on Dave Rubin as well,

who was apparently supposed to come to the Libertarian Conference. But did he have his period? Probably, I assume it was his time of the month. but yeah i never get tired of clowning on dave reuben i'm sorry it's it's one of my favorite and that's the one thing i will say about the one thing i i can say good about the majority port report and i hate sam cedar with a passion but back when michael brooks was alive he did the great he did probably the greatest dunking on dave reuben out of anybody ever so i he was one of the few leftists who got a pass for me in terms of watchability so

that's hilarious but um so ron paul just gave his typical stump speech yep yeah it wasn't anything uh i mean i mean i think that's what he even he's open even he admits that he pretty much does the same message in every single speech and his speech is pretty much been the same that's what that's what i mean i mean he's told me that's in my face yeah yeah yeah i mean it was different last year at the ron paul conference because like i said i was i was a ron paul scholar back uh back in August and September So I was at his His main conference and that's a Jeff Dice who we were talking about before and who's going to be there this weekend

He was also there. He had his his speech But no but Ron Paul speech was a little different last time because it was specifically about foreign policy Because of course it was through the RPI which and that's their specialty But yeah, no, it was just regular stump speech this time I didn't listen to the whole thing like I stepped out for a moment and or for about the second half of it because it's nothing I hadn't heard before But it was also partially to kind of go because I want I was gonna meet with him briefly afterwards So I went to where I said if they said Dan told me they were gonna be walking out so yeah I mean I know you weren't there for for the whole nominating process and everything when they

nominated chase Oliver but what when you like take in everything that you saw and the people that you talked to, interviewed, whatever. What's your opinion on them nominating Chase Oliver? Does it seem like that would be from the whole tenor of the conference that that was something that just was so out of the blue or something that was like beyond the pale? I honestly don't know what I was expecting. Towards the end, I was kind of expecting it would be erect and walled.

Um, but because he had like 39% at one point and Oliver had like 18%. I was thinking maybe it would be wrecked and walled with Chase Oliver as the VP pick. Towards the end, that's what I was anticipating. But then that evening, I see, or not that evening, I was like, one in the morning. Um, I wake up to a notification and it says, Chase Oliver, I'm like, what happened? Like, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if.

I honestly can't explain how that happened. And you had people, one of the dumbest thing, I will say, one of the media gaggles that McArdle was having, like there were a lot of good questions from several outlets. But then CNN's question was, what do you have to say about Michael Wreckton while doing an edible here at the conference? I don't know why, but like there were some factions

that were making such a big deal out of that. And am I saying that that's necessarily a good idea? Well, I mean, I don't know if that's maybe necessarily the appropriate time and place for that, for a candidate. But at the same time, I just had this feeling that a bunch of people were trying to make a big deal out of that just because they didn't like the Mises Gakas. Well, it just seems to me that after all the work that they put in

and everything to take over that and to, I'm not going to say they were going to make it right-wing because I was explicitly told by party leader, by caucus leadership that that wasn't the goal. The goal was to make it more libertarian, which I think Chase Oliver is probably the peak libertarian as you can get, considering the history of libertarian party. The to watch it happen in like the span of two years to the point where sure they still have the chair sure they still have 80% of the of the at large but um you know the that the the face of your book club for the next six months is going to be a pro trans pro pro child chemical castration uh pro LGBT

you know, pro-masking, homosexual is just, to me, that would be, if I was still a part of it, I would consider that to be an utter failure. And I can understand why Dave Smith is stepping back from it, you know, and why another big-time libertarian might have taken the time to, you know, have an international vacation at the moment that conference was actually happening. I'm sorry, wait, what happened? Well, Dave Smith has said he's stepping back from the party. Oh, yeah, no, I heard that, but what did you say about somebody decided to take a vacation after that? Well, I mean, Tom Woods didn't even go.

Oh, yeah, no, Tom Woods was, yeah. No, he was in, no, he was in Iceland. He was in Iceland. Yeah. Yeah, no. So, but yeah, no, so even, I don't know if you heard this, but even Michael Heiss is stepping back now. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I saw the, I saw it.

It's funny. I got kicked out of all their. all their Discord groups, because I shared something out of the Discord group at one point. Yeah, I wonder, you kind of disappeared. I shouldn't have done that, but I understand why they kicked me out of all the groups and everything, because, you know, I was just basically talking down on them and everything. But still, whenever something would happen, people would send me screenshots. There'd be like, there'd be a, there'd be like a little powwow where, like, there'd be four people.

Like, there'd be, like, the Mises Caucus leadership and, like, two, other people and like that one of the two other people would still be friendly to me so I'd find out what was happening. They'd be telling me all these things that happened behind the scenes, you know, shit that was being talked about me behind the scenes and everything. And I'd be like, okay, that's fine. You know, it's like, I mean, yeah, they have every right, you know, I mean, I, I did, I did promote them for a while and then walk away. And when I walked away, I said it wasn't going to work. And I said that this was going to happen. But, you know, I, I get it, you know, I get it.

You sometimes you have to, you know, put down other people when you're trying to rally the troops and don't listen to him. He's wrong. He's always, you know, he's always wrong. And, you know, he, he just jumps from one thing to another. Sure, that's just me, you know. I changed my mind when I'm presented with new information. Sue me, you know, but, you know, I mean, I consider it to be a failure. I consider that if you take over, if you spend, you know,

what was essentially five years to finally take over a party in 2022. And your main goal is to get like this insane messenger running for president in 2024 that's going to re-kickstart the Ron Paul revolution. And that doesn't happen. And you fail. And not only do you fail, it's not like you get like some milk toast kind of Gary Johnson libertarian or Joe Jorgensen libertarian, But you get a gay commie. I just want to say, yeah, basically seems to chase out of it. You get a gay race commie. That's what it seems like.

Yeah. And I do not talk about. He's also a race commie. I mean, you know, he's, you know, he will not, you know, he's, you know, he's, asked him about repealing the Civil Rights Act. I mean, he's, he's going to have the same, he'll have the same opinion of that as a progressive. I mean, he'll, you know, he'll, he'll, you know, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, be just as upset about it.

You know, you mentioned as a somewhat inconect, they'll be like, come on, that's ridiculous. We can't do that. But, I mean, he'll have the same kind of response that a progressive will. You know, so, you know, I mean, I just think it's, I think it's sad. I think it's sad.

Yeah, I mean, even I was never particularly optimistic to begin with, but back in 2022, after the Reno conference, when the Mises caucus took over. And I'd affiliated, like, I'm, I'm not a member of the LP, either registered, nor am I, a dues-paying member, as I've said. But I've been in all the Mises groups. I've gone to their events before. Like, I was at the Take Human Action Conference when they were doing that tour.

I even, I tabled there, actually. But, yeah, no, so I was never particularly optimistic, but I was very glad to, but I was very glad. to see that they had ended up pulling off the quote-unquote party takeover back in 2022, but it's just that hasn't gone anywhere. That just never went anywhere. There is something kind of sad just to see how little influence they've actually managed to exert within the wider party apparatus despite technically being in control. Well, I mean, it's, it's Pornel's Iron Law of bureaucracy.

you know, the bureaucrats are always going to win out over the ideologues. You know, when you have a bureaucracy, the only goal of a bureaucracy is to perpetuate the bureaucracy. The managers are always going to win. Classic public choice, yeah. Yeah, the managers are always going to win. So, you know, I knew that that's what, once I started studying that, you know, back in 2020, in the middle of 2021, I was like, oh, that I've been promoting this and I've been, you know,

telling people to join this and everything and do this and God, it's going to fail. I'm not going to do it anymore. I'm going to tell people not to do it. And there were a lot of people who I had convinced to do it. And I apologize to those people. I hope I have apologized enough for it. Maybe I'll never be able to apologize enough. Who joined because of me and the ones who told me I was crazy, you were right. And the ones who didn't join, you were right and good on you. But the, you know, once I saw that it was like you realize a bureaucracy and, you know,

then you look at like, oh, Sullivan's law, any organization that's not explicitly right wing will eventually become left wing. You know, it's what, once you understand those and once you internalize those, it's like, I can't be a, I can't be a part of this. It's just, it's not going to be. It's not going to turn out the way we want it to be. So, and there's nothing that we can do about it. It's just basically, you know, just pure entropy at this point. And you're definitely saying Chase Oliver of the, his nomination is definitely evidence of exactly what it is you're saying right there, that phenomenon. Yeah. I mean, Joe Jorgensen already was, but even more so this time.

Well, at least Joe Jorgensen. I mean, I met her and everything and she was talking about Switzerland and how you had the cancer. and decentralization and everything. And at least there's some kind of coherent political, political formula there. I mean, racism. She was still marching with BLM. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, I know. I know. Well, this was before I met her in January of 2020. Oh, okay. Before her nomination, gotcha. Yeah, those things that came out. I mean, I was out of the Libertarian Party in 2020. I didn't go back in until 2021, one.

And we, you know, somebody who contacts me and said, look, this is with the plan that we're going to do and everything like that. And I'm like, that does sound like a good plan. Let me let's see if we can give it a shot, everything. So are you behind Trump at this point? I mean, I don't, I don't know. I'll probably end up voting for him. But I don't expect, you know, I don't expect him to cross to Rubicon. and, you know, have this insane change, you know,

I don't know, Project 2025 kind of stuff that they're talking about, which, you know, sounds good on paper and everything, but, you know, a lot of things sound good on paper. Yeah. Theory is always different in practice, so. Of course, yeah. Yeah, Burn, just that's your, it's Burnham 101. But the crazy thing is how very few people,

people seem to understand that even though that should be common sense like categorically speaking yeah I mean you there's so many examples of it you know look at the Tea Party I mean how long did it take for the Tea Party to get co-opted about two years I mean you once Ted people like Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio started coming in it was a lost cause but even like the fund even funding came in from from sources pretty immediately the coax yeah Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, anyway, I got to start getting, get ready to do some other stuff.

I appreciate you coming on. I know you gave plugs at the beginning, but you can give any plugs you want now. All right, so I am on Twitter or X, whatever. I am a real politocrat, so capital R-E-A-L, capital P-O-L-L-I-T-I-C-R-A-T. I think I might be shadow-band. and have been for a while, I wonder why. But I'm also on YouTube, The Politocrat. I'm going to start making content again.

Hopefully this summer, it's just been really busy for me lately. I'd love to have you on again too, maybe sometime within the month, if you're interested. Sure. But yeah. No, and if any of you guys here are going to be at the OGC conference this upcoming weekend, I will be there. Be sure to say hi.

have a drink, something like that. But yeah, no. So thank you for having me on, Pete. It's a pleasure as always. Yeah, no problem. See you this weekend. Take care.