The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1066: Discussing Wyndham Lewis' 'Paleface: The Philosophy of the Melting Pot' w/ Taylor from Antelope Hill

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

57 MinutesPG-13Taylor works for Antelope Hill Publishing, where one of his responsibilities is promoting new books they are publishing. Taylor joins Pete to talk about the themes in the newest book Antelope Hill is publishing entitled "Paleface: The Philosophy of the Melting Pot" by Wyndham Lewis.Taylor joins Pete to talk about the themes in the newest book Antelope Hill is publishing, entitled "Paleface: The Philosophy of the Melting Pot" by Wyndham Lewis.Antelope Hill - Promo code "peteq" for 5% offVIP Summit 3-Truth To Freedom - Autonomy w/ Richard GroveSupport Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignana's show. I've got Taylor from Antelope Hill here today. How are you doing, Taylor? Doing very well. Very happy to be here with you. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself first time on the show. All right. So I've been with Antelope Hill publishing since it's very beginning as a company for a while.

I did some of the editorial work. I did a little editorial work on some of our early books, such as our book on Oswald Mosley and the British Union of fascists. And at this point, I call myself the outreach managers. I'm responsible for organizing podcasts, going on podcasts, stuff like that, and just working on our outreach, our advertising, stuff like that. So. Well, cool. You had contacted me or somebody from the, from Antelope Hill contacted me and said that you were publishing, uh, Wyndham Lewis book. I've, I've read one of his books previous, um, but I hadn't even heard of this one.

It's called Paleface, the philosophy of the melting pot. So, um, well, can you tell everybody a little bit about Wyndham Lewis in the first place? Because I'm sure a lot of people have not heard of him. Yeah, sure. So he's a very interesting figure. He was a writer. He was an artist in Britain in the early to mid-20th century. He was a very controversial figure, which is a large part of why he's not really remembered today, even though in a lot of ways, especially with books like or many of his books were. from a more objective perspective, could be recognized as being quite prescient and making some valuable commentary on politics at the time as well as where things might possibly go and did go in many cases. So we published a book of his previously called Hitler, which was written in the interwar period. He went to Germany and wrote a book about

what he saw and it was essentially a pro-Hitler pro-Nazi book. He tried very hard to backpedal from that after the start of the war and he would later write another book. I don't remember the title, but it was about the Jews and it was basically trying to, maybe partly, like ironically, but not entirely like try to cast himself as a phylo-Semite to atone for his sins. So basically he seems to kind of have spent a lot of his life, you know, committing the sins in the eyes of the, you know, the political establishment and like never quite managing to claw his way back from that. I mentioned he was also an artist. He, I think, was actually the founder of this artistic movement called vorticism, which is kind of funny. is he,

and Paleface, he talks about some different books, and one of them is, I think it's by W.E.B. Dubois. I forget what the title is, but in that book by W.E.B. Dubois, there's a scene where these non-white characters from Africa, Asia, all these representatives of like the non-white races are meeting,

and they actually mentioned vorticism, which is, you know, this artistic movement that Wyndham Lewis himself founded. So he kind of comments on that a little bit. But yeah, basically, you know, long story short is that he was and is for anyone who's aware of him a pretty controversial figure in a lot of ways. And but at the same time, a lot of his works, especially this one, were very prescient in what they said about, especially white people and the political condition of the white race in Europe and America and where it might, you know, kind of end up going to. for reference the Dubois novel is called the Dark Princess. Yeah, that's the one.

Yeah, yeah. Just want to throw that out there because somebody will contact and say, oh, it's called the Dark Princess, so we'll get that out of the way. All right. So, yeah, when you look at the book, it looks like he's writing this, is released in 1929. He probably started writing it, you know, a little bit earlier. it looks like he is picking up on the fact that a lot of white people are leaning towards

what we would say now or what we would recognize now as apologizing for being white or even embarrassment of being white. Is that correct? Yeah, that's a large part of it. So a large part of the book deals with white, essentially white, hatred from a variety of different angles. A lot of it is specifically through criticizing American and British literature through famous writers of the time like D.H. Lawrence and Sherwood Anderson and picking out some of their works as examples of ways in which white writers and, you know, taking that as an

example for how white people generally would fetishize non-whites and it, you know, essentially do the whole noble savage bit and, you know, use non-white people as a positive foil for whites and, you know, all their, you know, supposed the things that make us suck and that we need to get over and how these people are so much closer to nature and to what is natural. So, yeah, basically he's criticizing anti-whiteness specifically in that sense in literature, as well as just in kind of high society, you know, what culture generally, there's one part where he discusses like writers and journalists in America generally and, you know, the kinds of people who think of themselves as making up like this upper class of society and how, you know, frankly, like,

mindless they are in the way that they just accept ideas without any questioning or any thought it all and how they're, you know, look down on white people. So, you know, so he's basically looking at the ways in which this self-hatred is beginning to, or perhaps by that time already was predominant in white societies in Europe and America. And he also more presciently looks forward to the possibility that, or, what I guess he arguably considered was already becoming a reality even back then that this situation that may be like this literature and all that is just a manifestation of a deeper crisis that would ultimately see white people lose all political power in their own countries and become effective outlaws

that white people had no advocates and they needed advocates and that by definition any white advocate would be an outlaw because it would be something that would be not recognized by by our own societies, our own systems. So yeah, that's a big part of the book. Why do you think Europe went in that direction after the war? Was it, was it engineering? So do you mean the first or the second world war? The first.

Yeah, so that is a part of what he discusses. And he does put a lot of the blame, I guess you could say, on, science, technology, in a lot of ways, in the way that it kind of demystified things, as well as the possibility that it gave for white civilization to lose a lot of its advantages, its competitive edge, you know, that in the past it had succeeded through the superiority of its tools, and now those tools were, you know, becoming commonplace throughout the world. So that is certainly part of it. He also talks about the war itself and how demoralizing it was and just how nonsensical it was. So, you know, I don't, he doesn't, I don't think he dwells so much on why. He does talk about why, and it's largely these two reasons.

The bulk of it is kind of the what and the examples that he gives. But the why, like you noted, does have a lot to do with technology and with science and with its effect on society and the way that people think and, you know, the way to think about themselves and society in general and its effect on individualizing society, stuff like that. Did you know those Black Friday deals everyone's talking about? They're right here at Beacon South Quarter. That designer's sofa you've been wanting. It's in Seoul, Boe Concept and Roche Bu Bois. The Dream Kitchen, check out at Cube Kitchens. Beacon South Quarter Dublin, where the smart shoppers go.

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The Dream Kitchen, check out at Cube Kitchens. Beacon South Quarter Dublin, where the smart shoppers go. Two hours free parking, just off the M50, exit 13. It's a Black Friday secret. Keep it to yourself. Did he see it as something particularly attacking, like Americans would be doing it and the English would be doing it? Or was he relating it to like the Germany and Austria who were basically attacked even after World War I with a blockade up until 24, 1924 and everything? And basically they try to destroy them.

Did he see it as like all of whoever, wherever this anti-white force was coming from? Was it attacking all whites at that point? Or was it certain groups, certain ethnicities? I think that he really did see it as a general force. And this is actually another part of the book that crops up in a couple places. is criticizing this view that many Europeans had of kind of like looking down on America and seeing themselves as separate. And as well as, you know, you mentioned like the reprisals against German-speaking countries and stuff like that. He really does have a problem with what we would kind of perjuratively today called petty nationalism.

And, you know, he arguably goes somewhere with that I wouldn't entirely agree with, but he is so, on one hand, so disgusted by the, you know, the effects that these increasingly pointless intra-European wars have had. And on the other hand, so concerned with, you know, the possibility of the white world being overtaken and how much his fellow Europeans just, you know, aren't even aware that this is a possibility. his suggestion is that Europe should basically, Europe should have a melting pot of Europeans, not of non-Europeans, but just like of Europeans, and Europe should frankly follow America in that sense. I think he suggests at one point that Europe should become like China in the sense that it has one language, one people,

and is therefore able to create a more cohesive block against the outside world. But I think more an answer to your question, he definitely has a lot of criticism for like intra-European squabbles. And he thinks that, you know, his fellow Europeans are really not appreciating the situation that they're in. And it's shown through their, you know, they're kind of like looking down their noses as at America as, as though it were, you know, this completely separate civilization and not, you know, and at a time when race is, or, will be becoming, which again is a way in which he probably was seeing into the future in a way that wasn't immediately obvious at the time. But, you know, it's kind of like really focusing

in on how race would become the most important identifier. And, you know, the difference between European countries, different between Europe and America, this, you know, these things would fade from practical relevance and it was really becoming a distraction and an impediment even back then to address the questions that we're facing white people as a race by, you know, by doing all that stuff. That's interesting. I was going to ask the question if he's calling for essentially, like, a European imperium, you know, who does he see as the, who this needs to, who they need to

gird up against? Because, you know, I know that many people at the time, especially in, in Weimar would would be looking at the Bolsheviks and, you know, trying to figure out when and if, or mostly when they're going to try and take the peninsula. Yeah, I don't think is from I remember reading the book, I don't think the concerns about Russia or communism featured that heavily as such. It really is, you know, the crux of his analysis is between whites and other. races and in this possibility that non-white races are going to catch up technologically that's going

to strip away a lot of the, you know, at least some of the advantages that Europeans historically enjoyed and that, you know, ultimately Europe physically borders these places and there's millions of these people and the worry is that the Europeans had not developed a sufficient concern about the, you know, the possibility of their extended contact with the non-white world to, you know, think ahead as to where this may lead and, you know, decide what they want to protect and how. Yeah, that's interesting, especially when you consider, you know, basically what we've gone through since Hartzeller, where people have just, I mean, maybe you could say right now, we're looking at it where the more people would be looking at the problem of people who are not

of this culture pouring over the border and basically doing what they're doing to this country thinking of I can't remember the guy's name at the SPLC who kept his count of countdown of oh yeah was it was it Mark otok talk Potok? Potock. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it seems like he probably, in mentioning us, too,

he probably foresaw that something like this would happen. Yeah, it's one of the things that he talks about is how non-white cultural things like jazz specifically. He talks a lot about jazz and how it's becoming popular for whites. And he really is pretty disgusted with it. And, you know, he kind of talks about how ridiculous this is that you could almost foresee a situation in which, like, all the white people are listening to jazz because they think it's fashionable to be black. And all the blacks are listening to, like, classical music because they're aspirational high class or something. So, you know, he's like has a lot of, a lot of criticism for the ways in which, like, these cultural, you know, The whole idea that non-whites were the cool thing

and whites were trying to signal through their adaptation of non-white cultural music and everything was just kind of humiliating and just really silly and stupid. If Paleface, the philosophy of the melting pot sounds like something you'd like to read, head on over to Antelope Hill Publishing, and use promo code Pete Q at checkout for 5% off your order. And that goes for any book, any order you would make there.

Thank you. Yeah, you have to wonder when you fast forward and you look at like the 80s and 90s if hip hop and rap would have had any kind of the influence it did, had not been marketed mostly to white Americans, Anyone who went to a rap show, a hip-hop show in the 90s would notice that it was overwhelmingly white. And it just seems to be one that they pull out of the playbook all the time where you're being presented this. This is the cool hip thing. Or check out Michael Jordan and Air Jordans.

You want to wear these. It just seems to be something that is, basically a given now, something people don't even think about, people don't even notice because it's become so commonplace. Yeah, it's infected the culture to such a great degree, and it's infected, you know, white people's zone, what remains of their self-identification. So where does, before we started recording, you had asked me about, you know, this show and the JQ and I told you it was, you know, we're fine talking about that. So when it comes to this book, what is his take? Where does he, where does he take that subject? So as I think I kind of alluded to

in describing his history, he's again had basically what I find interesting in the JQ is the way that you can see it by its absence, by him not talking about it because he doesn't really talk about it. It's quite likely that he was aware of Jews. It's quite likely that he personally was not, you know, was not really a fan and was aware of their role in a lot of this stuff. But for personal reasons and for career reasons, you know, he didn't want to kind of stick his neck out in that way. There's one part early on where he mentions, let me find the guy's name, but he spends a lot of time criticizing these types of books. There was an imprint called the Borzoi books in the U.S. It was by a Mr. Knopf, or Knopf, who's a Jewish publisher.

And he talks about how he mentions how this guy is, you know, a big, and his public. is one of the biggest pushers of this kind of, you know, aspirational, you know, noble savage myths about blacks, especially and other races, two whites, and it's a big part of, you know, infecting the culture with that. So he mentions this guy by name. He does not mention that he is Jewish. Again, it was, it's very unlikely that he was not aware of it. Ready for huge savings? Well, mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th, because the Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast.

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and if it's online, it's in stock. With next day delivery in Greater Dublin. Appliances delivered.aE, part of expert electrical. See it, buy it, get it tomorrow. Or you know, fight Brenda. But I want to quote here, um, this,

this is from later on in the book where he's talking about again more on the science theme more on the way in which like education and the educated classes have become infected with anti-white ideas that are inimical to the very survival of the race and people's self-identification so I'm going to quote here he's he's talking in this case, I believe about white students. He said, they've allowed themselves to remain romantic, show a tendency now to destroy themselves. Some mind more cunning than the white has enveloped them and infected them with a consciousness, not their own. And if we look around for the possessor of this more cunning mind than the white mind, able to destroy it with its alien consciousness,

then we need not go to a hostile race. We can find it in the mind of science. So basically, you know, up until that last part that I read, that I think is, you know, that is the Jewish question. And I think it's telling that he phrases in that way that there's, you know, if you, he's basically saying if you just kind of look at this without any preconceived notions, your obvious conclusion would be that this was a conscious act that was done to white people. That there is some outside, some mind has enveloped and infected the white mind with a consciousness, not their own. So it's, again, like I said, the JQ is noticeable in this book for its absence, essentially.

Okay, well, the sub-sitle of the book is the philosophy of the melting pot. Is this what he's getting at if you're going to have a melting pot that you're going to have to have to, whereas the people who are coming in there should be adopting the culture, that already exists, the melting pot has basically caused white culture to be, the American culture to be, to force to adopt other cultures and foreign cultures so that, you know, as we see what immigration does to Europe and here, to make just this one gigantic global homo so it's interesting because the places where he's some of the places not all of them but some of the places where he's kind of making positive prescriptions are where you feel that

he kind of is on the back foot because you know he doesn't want to go um kind of he doesn't want to go too far essentially. And so he doesn't ever advocate that, you know, white people should lose their identity or their, you know, racial cohesion. In fact, he says that, you know, white people should have a positive image of themselves. He certainly doesn't say they, you know, need to mix themselves out of existence. But basically, in some places, he kind of, you know, he laments that, you know, he says he doesn't have anything against, you know, the blacks, the yellows, the other races. But why does it have to be that, you know, in their emancipation, they are now just, you know, we're not becoming equals, but they're just turning into the masters. And, you know, and white people are, you know, are just switching places, essentially.

And he says that that's not what he wants. Now, you could infer from some other things that that may not necessarily be the full extent of, his actual opinion, but that's part of what he talks about. And in relation to the melting pot, again, there's no, you know, there's no indication that he thinks that should apply to, you know, white Americans and non-white Americans. But rather, I think he sees it as like a model that America had for its white immigrants and, again, something in his mind that Europe should emulate for its different white groups. So let's step away from the book for a second.

Let me ask you your opinion on this. When you see whites embracing other cultures being self-hating, do you think this is part of like a Hegelian cycle, like a Spanglarian kind of cycle in which this is going to happen and then you're going, people are going to have to see, white people are going to have to see how damaging it is and then, you know, bring it back. this is just, it seems like this is, every empire goes through this at some point, especially

when they get to the, when they get to the point where they're importing other groups. Yeah, it's a very interesting question. I don't know. I am not sure that it can be easily answered because I think there's a big temptation to kind of just say, well, that's just what's. happening so so yes but at the same time you know if you it can't be both a theory and and just like you know it's something that you observe um so i mean it's uh i think that there can be a difficulty sometimes in um especially with with how bad things get to me it it just makes me

We think that some of the consideration of that idea just comes from a place of kind of despondence and wondering if things can ever get any better. And it's like, well, maybe we just have to hang on. And this is just an inevitable cycle. And maybe it is. But it doesn't absolve one of responsibility to take action. I think that if we grant that it is an inevitable cycle,

then that doesn't make it like a mechanistic process in the sense that, in sense that I think a lot of people think in the sense that, you know, this is like you're just a block and you're just like tumbling, you know, guided by these forces of history and you have no, you have no saying. It, rather, it's a description of how, you know, of the waves in which human action goes, if that makes sense. It's like, you know, people build something great. They build an empire.

They become decadent. It falls. And it turns back around, not, you know, because of some accident or some inevitability, but because people are, you know, put through such a struggle and such a testing that they can do nothing but either, you know, either die entirely or become conquerors again. So I don't know if that entirely answers the question, but I think it's an interesting one, and that's kind of how I think about it. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back.

We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items, all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle New Bridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Little more to value. Those people who love going out shopping for Black Friday deals, they're mad, aren't they?

Like, proper mad. Brenda wants a television and she's prepared to fight for it, if you ask me. It's the fastest way to a meltdown. Me, I just prepare the fastest way to get stuff, and it doesn't get faster than Appliances Delivered.aE. Top brand appliances, top brand electricals, and if it's online, it's in stock.

With next day delivery in Greater Dublin. Appliances delivered.com, part of expert electrical. See it. get it tomorrow. Or you know, fight Branda. Did you know? Those Black Friday deals everyone's talking about? They're right here at Beacon South Quarter. That designer's

sofa you've been wanting? It's in Seoul, both concept and Rocheburoix. The Dream Kitchen? Check out at Cube Kitchens. Beacon South Quarter Dublin, where the smart shoppers go. Two hours free parking, just off the M50, exit 13. It's a Black Friday secret. Keep it to yourself.

Yeah, I don't, I think if one believes in the cunning of reason, that they don't excuse the people who allowed the civilization to get like this, nor the people who may have infiltrated the civilization. And you certainly don't sit on your hands and not try to do something. It just doesn't make any sense. There's a, you know, even if you believe, you know, it's like Calvinists. If Calvinists believe God is doing, has all of this plan and everything,

it doesn't mean that you're uh you know that you stop doing what needs to be you know you stop your life you go forward you um you conquer a new land if that's what you think you need to do you change whatever where you change a civilization that you're with that you're in especially if it's graduated to the point where it's not even a civilization anymore now there's no excuses you just keep doing it It's just interesting to think that we, this is something we see over and over again. And I was wondering if, you know, just how you might have thought about that. Yeah, well, as a Calvinist myself, I agree that, you know, it's not an excuse for inaction. But actually, I want to quote from Wyndham Lewis in this book on this very subject.

And this was one, to me, one of the most interesting insights that I think he had. So I'll read two quotes here. And he's talking in this section about this kind of part of his discussion of the educated class generally, as well as the political situation more specifically of white people in a democracy and how people think about, you know, or, you know, basically it comes down to, a lack of imagination. So he's talking here about how people, I think particularly Americans thought about the system that they're in. He says, in order of course to employ this system, or he means here a system of thinking effectively, the reader must acquaint himself with many things of a sort that do not come his way in the ordinary course of life. He must accustom himself to regarding

the means by which people are ruled today as very much more shrewd, and elaborate than is generally believed. And then a little further along, he says, hence it would lie much more in your power than you are accustomed to think to change yourself, just as it would to change your environment in any great, in any of a great variety of ways, provided you had the imagination and the necessary power.

Change is much less than is generally believed a single gauge track. It is not a single gauge track at all. So basically he's saying that, that people, you know, once people are kind of put in a system, they cease to think about it. And then they kind of just take it for granted. They assume that this, because this is the way that it has gone,

this could have been the only way that it could have gone. And that's simply not true. It could have gone a different way, and it can still go a different way in the future. You know, it's people don't have imagination to question the way that they're ruled and what it might actually be like. and to question the assumptions that the system makes about itself,

and they don't have the imagination to think that change is something that is possible. You know, he says change is not a single gauge track at all. You know, it is very much in your power individually and collectively to make significant changes. And the big obstacle to that is literally just, you know, people's lack of imagination about it, which of course is encouraged and in many cases promoted from above and from the system that we live in. You had mentioned earlier his fear of surrounding nations and getting the kind of technology that white Europe and America had already acquired, had developed. Which nations is he talking about? I mean, it's easy to look south to Africa, but is he?

talking about Slavs? Who specifically is he talking about? It would probably be blacks and Asians. Most of all, he spends the most time discussing them. I mean, I think, well, but probably South Americans as well, you really just was talking about the way that the world is becoming smaller and, you know, Western media is all over the place. It's presenting an image of the West. you know, these physical and non-physical barriers between these two worlds are breaking down. And you're going to, you know, again, unless some action were taken, you're going to necessarily have more mixing and less differentiation and, you know, just a leveling of the whole thing.

So, you know, I think, again, in that way the book is really, I don't know what quite the right word is, but it really is a racial book, essentially. It's, you know, it's dealing with whites and their relation with all non-whites and, you know, the possibilities and the pitfalls of that. Well, I mean, I think that due to the fact that eugenics was so just commonplace at that time, I mean, every nation was practicing it. It was spoken openly. Nobody, it wasn't the, it wasn't the majority of that it ended up becoming.

I mean, you know, famously many, many in the Reich wrote about how the, you know, white Europe needed to become, you know, Sparta, you know, some kind, you know, a continent of anarchs. and that basically the, like, the black world would have to, I mean, you'd almost have to take like a noblesse oblige kind of attitude with them because they were so far behind. And I think that's probably a very, that was a very common attitude at the time. And it wasn't only in Europe. It was, um, Americans thought that way too. It's just that, you know, when you, when the history books got written afterwards, then we forgot where eugenics came from and where progressivism came from and everything was just blamed on the people who lost the war. Yeah, I do think that to think about this topic or to read the book and to zero in too much on any potential implications about you know, a lack of just kind of factual, observable superiority between whites and non-whites

in his estimation is kind of, is not really the point. I think that there, we can see if we, if we, if we look at it honestly. And I guess, I guess what I would say is that, you know, the kind of stuff that you're talking about and it still is like trying to solve the problem of how whites, how Europeans should interact with non-whites. And it kind of, you know, at least just from that in itself, it doesn't really present a solution, right? Because, you know, we recognize or we want to practice this eugenics to, you know, in order to better ourselves. And it's going to just increase our, our distance from from the other races but it's kind of just like assuming that we can continue proceeding along the same you know relationship that we've had to them and I think it there is

something to be said for the fact that it didn't you know you had so much non-white or sorry anti-white ideology that had infected the culture by this point you know it it could all it couldn't not begin to infect even ideas like that as well. So merely recognizing, you know, a kind of physical or superiority in intelligence or whatever else between races is ultimately, because, you know, there's people who do that and who aren't actually like pro-white in any meaningful sense and who don't really value white people remaining a cohesive or a, or a self-confident group. So I think the value of his observation and his criticism is, you know, again, that white people

were not thinking sufficiently toward this, and they were just kind of relying on being able to coast on that, you know, in many ways that inherent superiority and didn't consider the ways to with which you know not just like physical numbers could could change the balance but more to the point the ways in which you know different cultural norms the introduction of media and technology throughout the world would break down a lot of barriers that kind of hadn't really been been thought of or been examined it had been really taken for granted and And a lot of the racial supremacism that still existed was kind of reactionary and wasn't, you know, wasn't really progressive in, I guess you could say a positive sense. So I don't know if that makes sense, but what are your thoughts?

Oh, no, I was just, that makes total sense. I was going to move on to the Asians because that's where I would, I'm wondering, does he give a little bit of an outline? there of what his concern is when it comes to to the Asian races. Well, there he, uh, one thing. And it's so broad. I mean, you can, I mean, we could be talking about Indians. We could be talking about Japanese. So it's, it's such a broad subject.

Yeah. Um, it's interesting when he's talking about the WB Dubois novel. Um, he, apparently the main character in that who's black notes that there's even some racism like between the non whites and the Asians to look down on him and the African. which is kind of funny. Wyndham Lewis at one point in the book, he's discussing it like a showing of a movie somewhere in Southeast Asia, like Indonesia or something.

And it's American Hollywood movie, and it just shows a really low-brow, crass portrayal of American culture. And he just reflects on this being the message that other races receive about America. And I think he might be quoting D.H. Lawrence, I'm not entirely sure, or I don't entirely remember, but in any case, you know, there's kind of like a double potential takeaway,

one being that, you know, a lot of Europeans, especially with the kind of anti-white noble savage proponents would, you know, kind of would almost welcome like the non-whites looking at something like that and looking down on Europeans. And, you know, I don't know if you could, you could possibly think of it as like a precursor for conquest or not. I think that part of the problem is that, again, the kind of writers who exemplified that ideology didn't really, probably wouldn't have cared about that. You know, they were happy to introduce this poisonous idea into the minds of white people that would potentially eventually, you know, lead to their dispossession.

So there's that, I think, you know. And there's, you know, the, I guess if we kind of step back and take a more historical approach, you can see that, you know, out of all the races, Asians are probably one of the closest potential competitors to Europeans. You had when Japan defeated Russia was, you know, the first time that Asian power had defeated a European power in a major war. So, yeah, a lot of this, a lot of this, again, comes down to, again, his criticism is like what white people are doing to other white people. And this, you know, ultimately can open them up to, or weaken them, kind of like we were just talking about earlier, weakens them in relation to the rest of the world. So, you know, regardless of how much better we may be at many things, how much higher achieving, you know, if we lose that confidence. if the only image we have of ourselves is something so crass and something that we're taught to think is,

you know, inherently inferior to, you know, these nobler peoples that are nobler because they're different and because they're foreign, then, you know, there's not so much that people are going to even want to do to defend themselves or even notice if they're being invaded or their culture is being drowned out by foreigners. Is there any evidence that when he's talking about white people being critical of other white people or attacking other white people, that it is, you know, my quote unquote fellow white people that he may be talking about? Again, the most direct example of that was when he refers to the publisher of the Borsori books, which were a lot of this, like these stories of noble non-whites. came from and that was put out by a Jewish publisher. So, you know, even in his, he doesn't dwell on that, but, you know, you read the book, you read the name, you see it. It's right there.

So it's certainly, you know, it's not one of the, something on which he plays his emphasis, but even in his treatment of it, you can still definitely see that influence there. What's interesting is that, um, the publisher, Noff, the, I have a first edition. and English English language, Mann and Technics is published by Noff. They actually published a lot of, also a lot of base stuff, which is interesting. Yeah, I don't think that would happen.

That would happen today. So how does he wind up, how does he wind up the book? What is his, I know that, you know, from reviews I've read of literary reviews I've read, A lot of it seems to be satirical. A lot of it seems to be he's employing a lot of satire. He's doing a lot of tongue-in-cheek.

He's doing some straight-out attacking. And yeah, so how does he wind those? How does he see everything ending up? I know you say he doesn't really make any predictions, but how does he end this all? Yeah, so he's definitely stronger on the attack, and that's where what I would say, what are a lot of his predictions are really, you know, come true in his first seeing how anti-white society would become in foreseeing how impossible it would become to be pro-white, even in a majority white society, which at the time would have been, you know, something that was just unthinkable, but, you know, that's something that he foresaw happening even back then. I think maybe if I can answer that by just talking about what I think is one of the strongest points where he presents something positive that he believes in. And, you know, I guess you'd say kind of gives it a solution, but just, you know, pushes back with actually his own beliefs, not just making a criticism.

So he talks at some point in the book about democracy and individualism and just kind of generally the degradation of the individual and of society collectively through individualism and through democracy. And so he basically goes on to talk about the kind of like an ancient conception of the person and of freedom and of freedom. of liberty and what it really means. And he says, but beyond that, I suggest that very few people can be free under any circumstances, or equally you may say that very few people can be persons still to employ the Roman terminology. So basically pointing to the fact that, you know, in ancient societies, there was much more of an understanding of hierarchy and an organic society and the, kind of individualization, the focus on, he talks at one point about like, you know, people talking

about their personality has served to fragment that and destroy it and really to ultimately degrade humanity and to degrade people by, you know, making themselves the focus in a way that they were never meant to be an art capable of being. He says, there's very little sign that the majority of people desire to be persons in any very important sense. Their conversation about developing their personality is a sentimental habit merely, it would seem. If they were cured of this habit, nothing would ever be heard of their personality again. And so what is kind of like the flip side of that? So basically it's, you know, you could say it's kind of like a spiritual elitism.

And he says, in the first place, the plan is, of course, not mine, but natures. Nature has repeatedly been interrogated, often angrily, upon this very point. It is a burning question. Why does not nature produce a dense mass of Shakespeare's or Newton's or pits? That had been the idea, and the means have been considered and plans worked out for assisting nature in this respect. But it is conceivable that nature, after all, may usually produce as many as are needed of these persons, and that this ratio may be according to some organic law that we are too stupid or too conceited to grasp. So basically he's giving a defense of, you know, natural superiority and of the hierarchy that is

implicit in nature. And I think that is something that even, you know, I myself and I think many of us today kind of, I think we're at a point in our history and in our politics where we're, we have a mission that's or a problem that's perhaps more difficult than people sometimes give a credit for, which is we have to take ideas and values that were formerly implicit in, you know, ancient societies and make them explicit. And one of these is this, you know, hierarchy, the natural society, you know, something as revolutionary as he talks about here, you know, doing away with the very concept of the person in the sense that people use it today in this kind of egalitarian sense

that we're all the same. You know, there's, it's, it's unfair that you cannot be a Shakespeare or something like that. You know, it's unfair that any person cannot be Isaac Newton. Well, where does the unfairness come from? It doesn't come from anything in a sense like rational. It comes from nature. It's just the way that it is. And we have to, you know, we, I think part of our task is to make an explicit defense of that and make an explicit argument for that and make an explicit formation of that and how it should apply to our lives and our politics.

So again, I think that's one of the places in the book where he kind of gives the strongest presentation of something he does believe in and does it very eloquently. That is the biggest problem today, isn't it? We've been so inundated with that kind of classical liberal libertarian kind of individualism that when you when you even infer that the way out of this

is a collectivism is a bulk that even you because of the way you were educated because of the way just about all of us were brought up there's even today an instinctive, you know, it's like, oh, oh, no, no, wait a minute, that is the way it's supposed to be. We're not supposed to be individuals. We're not supposed to be deracinated from one another. We're not supposed to be deracidated from our families. But it's just this, this gigantic campaign of the last 75 years is just made us think that, you know, anything,

if we come together to do anything, we're a socialist or communist or something like that. that. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's something that a lot of people feel extremely strongly as this burning conviction. but just like you're saying, the whole weight of the propaganda of the past, you know, frankly, like coming on 100 years, has been to suppress that to rob it of any eloquent expression or, you know, to make it something that, to almost give you like a second reaction that, you know,

this just doesn't make any sense. Like, go ahead, like try to justify that. And I think that that's, you know, that's something that we have to fight against. And it's, again, like I said earlier, I do think that it's, it may be a bigger task than a lot of people give it credit for. Because, you know, again, these are absolutely like fundamentally natural feelings and convictions, but you do need to have the language to express them and to express them in a truly progressive sense so that you're, you know, you don't just sound like you're, you're pining for times gone by. but you have, you know, a vision of the future that is worth working towards and fighting for and arriving at. Besides in our circles, do you see this idea?

Do you notice it at all in the world itself, in your personal life, in just what you're, what you witness if you're on social media? do you think that we're coming back to that? Do you think that there's a, you know, that there's hope there that people are starting to realize that the way through this is that we're going to either need, you know, like a Caesar, a strong man of some sort. And in order to do that, we're going to have to come together behind somebody like that to support them. I mean, do you get the idea that I'm not saying it's 10 years, I'm not saying it's five, 10 years away. I'm saying, do you see, you know, is there a spark? I think that you can see it in elementary ways. You know, like just the idea of uniting behind a strong man, I think, is ultimately something that is,

is pretty elementary that doesn't even touch on, you know, topics of blood and soil or anything like that. It's, you know, it's a very, very bare-bones sort of collectivism and authoritarianism. So I think that you can see people kind of like inching towards that, but I think you also can see that, you know, I guess if I were to try to pull a silver lining out of it, it's that people are increasingly confronted with the difficulties that we face and with the problems that we face and they're

perhaps very slowly but nevertheless coming to slowly comprehend their kind of like what we're talking about like all the ways in which they have been programmed

to not resist and the degree to which they're lacking the tools needed to address it. So it's, you know, it's not, we're not even at the step of like, you know, addressing it, but we're at the step of perhaps people starting to realize that a lot of the ideas that they have grown up with are not actually sufficient. And maybe there is something wrong, you know, maybe there is something that was kept from them or maybe they're being lied to, you know, maybe it's malicious. It's, I think that, you know, political libertarianism is, is,

is one of the best examples and how it's kind of very, very slowly being squeezed out of the, even like the mainstream right wing in America, for example. And, you know, certainly a lot of Republican politicians and stuff like that will just say what they think people want. But, you know, but people increasingly seem to want, you know, them to at least not sound libertarian. They they want them to sound like they're going to actually use the government to do something positive. So I think that that is one way in which people are beginning to realize that things that they took for granted ideas and theoretical tools and philosophical tools that they took for granted are not actually sufficient. And that's a step in the right direction.

Well, that's something that I've noticed as well. And I think that that's what they call a white pill. So let's end it right there. Tell people where they can get the book because I know it's just coming out. Yeah. So I think by the time this is released, it'll have just been released. But go over to antelopeill Publishing.com. And you can find this and all of our other books.

We're also on Twitter. We're on telegram. So check us out there and then follow us to get all the news. So thanks again very much for having me on. No problem. I'll invite you back on after. I read my next Anelope Hill book where I can't get the author or the author maybe long since moved on. Thanks a lot, Taylor. I appreciate it. Thank you.