The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1073: The Baader–Meinhof Gang (Rote Armee Fraktion) - Part 2 w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

62 MinutesPG -13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas continues a series in which he seeks to put into context the intention and activities of the Red Army Faction/Baader–Meinhof Group. In this episode he discusses the backgrounds of the leadership.Thomas' SubstackThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'VIP Summit 3-Truth To Freedom - Autonomy w/ Richard GroveSupport Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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So I really appreciate all of the support everyone's giving me, and I hope to expand the show even more than it already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome everyone back to the Piquaneda show here with Thomas. How you done, Thomas? I'm doing well, man. What I wanted to emphasize today, I assume people are, getting something out of this.

I'm not being obtuse. I mean, I, the Bader Meinhelhoff phenomenon, you've got to understand. There's two things that I think are key to understanding it. First is that there was, there truly were three iterations of it. This armed grouping that had a common lineage existed from 1970 to 1998. And every five to seven years, because they're operating. raiders got killed ended up incarcerated or disappeared underground some of whom

didn't like reemerge for decades despite being you know hunted by by um by the boonest republic you know counter terrorist police and um and the off with a euphemously we call the office of the detection of the constitution which is no joke these people have limitless resources but um you know the original Bader Meinhauf grouping, they really were a product of a peculiar time and

that was at an hour as Bundes Republic. And their parentage, a lot of these guys' fathers had died in the war or just never come home. There was a lost generation of people, as we'll see, because we're going to get into their biographies. And they had kind of a confused understanding of what they wanted to do.

Like Horst Mahler, I maintain, was always something of an ideological pole star for the group. And I believe he was always a national socialist. But he was different than the rest of him, and he wasn't a direct action operator. However, by the last iteration of the Root Army fraction, they were totally indexed with the Stasi. and they were they were running operations for the DDR. You know,

like it had totally changed into something different. You know, um, and it had become solidly in the Stalinist Warsaw Pact camp. You know,

um, which was a huge coup for Marcus Wolfe and the minister for Stutt's Sikira to be able to do that. And America, America, you know, the Soviets true, after the common turn would like cease to exist formally.

Okay. What replaced it was this aggregation above ground, you know, it was common form, which was basically, kind of like the communist version of the G7, you know, or the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, maybe is more a correct analogy, but, you know, the, um, the, the communist party of the Soviet Union,

um, they had their tentacles in many things. And they were constantly trying to flip leftists in the UK and America, like to the Warsaw camp, like away from this schismatic post-68, um,

ideology. You know, and, um, they had some success with that in the UK. but in America it was always hitting the wall you know like Gus Hall

I mean it's interesting there were some guys on the right especially in the earlier phase of the Cold War like James Harttog Mattel who I believe were signaling to some of these Warsaw Pact type

agents in America their notion being this is similar to what girl girl's notion of clicking up with the KPD you know during like the years of struggle to smash the social Democrats you know there is an internal logic there but um my point is uh you know the the Stasi managed it would basically totally and completely flip the the Bader Mine Off tendency you know and make it literally like an organ of a of a of the DDR violence apparatus.

And I find that fascinating. So, I wanted to get into the first iteration, the first iteration, the literal Bader Mejthoff faction, and talk a bit about these

personalities that constituted it, and what their backgrounds were, because I think that is essentially, there's essential understanding in the German situation. and it's essential understanding why these people did what they did. I make the point again and again, you know, zeitgeist is very real. That's not just some conceptual prejudice I have. Like, what is possible in, you know, the political realm is its own sphere of activity.

Okay. And if you're talking about radical partisan action, like what is going to have resonance, what is going to index with the culture and the historical moment as it then exists is very historically contingent. You know, German young people who wanted to strike out at regime authority, really the only way they could

conform that tendency was some sort of communism. Okay? Germany had literally been annihilated and was part of, partitioned and under hostile occupation to prevent a fascist going tenancy from ever reemerging. You know? And even those that were emergent, obviously early on,

were entirely adjacent to Soviet Union. You know, not in terms of their deep values or anything, but in terms of, you know, geostrategic realities as well as, you know, certain ideological interdependencies that were just essential in a bipolar world with a Soviet superpower as the, as the lesser enemy of Europe than the true foe of Europe, which was, America. So I want to get into that a bit. The, uh, the, uh, the, the, the, the road to army faction came into existence in May 1970. Um, and it was when, uh, there's an Andris Bader was sprung from prison. Bader had been locked up. In 1968, Hemen is a girlfriend

at his at the time. He'd set fire to this department store to strike back at capitalism. And he said that he did it because the Bundes Republic there was an apathy about what was happening in Vietnam. You know? And

it's interesting. that at first these guys and ladies were taking their cues very much from kind of like the American radical left and that's why like Nam was kind of their conceptual focus that changed very much and um the uh Palestine very much became their like the scherpunkk in their view of revolutionary activity abroad and kind of like the key battleground against you know, the capitalist... Did you know?

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Global structure Which uh I think reading between the lines, it's pretty clear why that is. Okay. But in any event, you know, as of 1968, Bader was still very, very much kind of a rebel without a cause. You know, he drew a custodial sentence because Germany was very, very draconian in these days. you know

and um at an hour who was kind of hated by both the right and the left but he was in purely objective terms he was a pretty remarkable executive you know and he managed to insinuate himself as all things to all people you know outside of the

outside of the the national socialist right would remain of it and and and the you know the far left but he he realized a certain kind of conformity had to be imposed. You know, Germany was very much

re-arming and reconstituting to fight World War III. And Adhorm made it clear that, you know, nuclear arms were going to be based in Germany. The Bundeswehr was going to participate in their deployment and use when war day came. This was incredibly controversial for all kinds of reasons. You know, some prosaic, some rather complicated.

But, um... In any event, that's the context. So young Andre's Bader at this point, I believe it's just kind of acting out to act out. A lot of young people in now, you know, those were a rather gifted intelligence. You have to live life, like literally just in terms of duration to get a true perspective on the historical situation. interestingly while he was incarcerated obviously i say may 149070 is the day when kind of the the road army fraction came into existence that's when he was sprung out of prison okay um now for whatever reason and we'll get into botter's like background in a minute like his upbringing

he was an incredibly contentious violent person he wasn't traditionally charismatic But people apparently would gravitate to him and treat him as a natural leader. Okay. Within his orbit was very much a quarter of young outsiders, as it were. All right. And despite his kind of, like his nature went beyond cantagoras. He was like a violent person. you know, he, if people would agree with them, he would attack them, like, physically.

They became his ops, you know, like, um, and some degree of that, like, has to live in kind of like the heart and mind of every partisan, but in his case, it was, it was truly extreme. Um, it, uh, the primary architect that springing him out of prison was, uh, O'Rica Meinhof, who, who was his sometime girlfriend, but more of kind of an, more kind of an ideological fellow traveler. One thing that was unusual about the Bader Meinhauf grouping, they always had women with them. Now, at first it was probably, I mean, not to be crass about it, but they were, you know, because they were young and horny

and, like, young guys want women around and vice versa. You know, young women gravitate towards guys in their age group. But there was a there was an odd ideological dimension to it too. Like when I say an odd ideological dimension, I mean, it was shaped by the conditions of, of the immediate post-war years. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't dummy feminism. And dummy feminists don't like lock and load and, and, and start knocking over banks and springing their people out of prison and, and shooting cops. Okay, obviously.

you know this caused some odd challenges for them later especially as they came to index with Islamic resistance fighters obviously not because like Muslims there's no problem training women to fight and they do but they can't have men and women cohabitating

and sleeping in common quarters and they can't have women in men's barracks and vice versa we'll get into that later but the one of the is in America, at least, the World Army faction, I think

this kind of fascination developed around them is because there was like these good look in, like, European broads always, like, clicked up with them. You know, and, um, kind of like the Patty Hearst thing, you know, like, it, people like really, like, like, Americans are always, like, really fascinated by, like, women handling weapons.

It was, like, literally, like, a quasi, like, pornographic genre of, like, of, like, half-naked girls, like, ripping rounds through, you know, like, assault weapons. you know like it's a thing you know um and it's not i'm not being something corny academic to say it's like obviously like very sexual you know like it's this is this is clear to anybody but um you know um um andre's badder he gets sprung um from this high security prison um you know

by um by um you know a masked man and these two young women um you know and um as uh the police opened fire on um and and and andrews batter he leaped out a window like literally you know like it's um it's um and um you know they uh they're uh they're their wheelman was able to snag him streetside, you know, and get away. You know, like, this kind of thing just didn't, this kind of thing that didn't happen in, you know, in post-war Germany. You know, Germany's a really orderly place. You know, that's not just a cliche, you know. During, uh, during the struggle, um,

Alarike Meinhoff, who to disguise herself, with um like this long like like like like wig like one of the police who tried to grab her by the hair like snatches his wig off you know revealing that she had like you know like a military style like blonde haircut you know and there was some confusion as to whether she was like a man or a woman too like an initial identification you know so this was a very this was a crazy situation you know um and um this made uh this didn't just made uh this didn't just made a make, this didn't just make, you know, national headlines in the Bundes Republic, but it was something, like the police weren't prepared to deal with this. I guess we'll get into, the police had agents insinuated into all the major trade unions, and especially for some reason, like the transportation and, like railroad workers union, was shot through with communists, like pro-Warsaw pact, you know, like Marcus, Leninists. So they viewed them as their ops. Okay, like the police did. Like these kinds of crazy guys who are getting like sprung out of the joint, you know, by gun-toting females, you know, and are pulling off, you know, wild operations. At least if to that point not particularly organized or well thought out, you know, like the firebombing department stores and, you know, and sloganeering revolutionary stuff. know, this, um, they just weren't prepared for it. You know, like, it was an issue of first impression. And it wasn't traditional, it wasn't traditional street volatility, but the kind

that Europe's used to. You know, like, it's something very like, almost kind of like American about that, you know, those kinds of, those kinds of outlaw actions, you know, um, so who was Andreas Bader? Andre's Bader was born in 1943 in May. He was born in Munich. His father was a historian and archivist and like a real intellectual. He'd been conscripted into Vermat, you know, like all able-bodied men. He was taken prisoner by the Russians in 45 and just was never seen again. He just never came home. You know, and Bader's mother never remarried. So Andre Bader, as a boy, he lived with his widowed mom, you know, who kind of, you know, continued to pine for that

someday, you know, dad was going to come home, you know, a grandmother, um, and like various, you know, aunts and uncles, but he basically lived in this, like, female household without a father, you know, and there was, there was millions of men who just never came home, you know, because, and hundreds of thousands where their fate was unknown, you know, they, you know, They were either, they were taking prisoner and died in some gulag. You know, they, they were cut to pieces, you know, at small arms fire and died in the snow. And during, you know, the desperate retreat, they, they were, their body was never recovered or identified. You know, so it's, um, I'm telling you that that impacted the perspective of these boys when they became, you know, young men.

You know, this like generation of fatherless boys who, who, you know, grew up in this authoritarian society, yet that didn't really index with them culturally. There's armed men everywhere who are there to police them, who aren't of their culture, who they can kind of relate to, you know, racially and linguistically, you know, at least like the white troops. You know, this had to be an incredibly confusing situation. You know, and pretty much without exception, the early Bader Meinov grouping, they all had some kind of background like this. You catch them in the corner of your eye.

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upgrading your car is the right prescription for you. Nobody thinks of West Germany what is, what was to be called West Germany, as actually being under occupation. they saw West Germany as the free Western democracy

as opposed to East Germany which is crazy too because I yeah no you're absolutely right you know like if you look at just you know West Germany like a quarter of Germany was you know the DDR historical Germany so you have West Germany

the occupation forces from 49 until 91 were 300,000 men Americans. There's a quarter million contingent of British, French, and Benelips troops, too. Half a million men

in a country smaller than Wyoming. You know, armed the teeth, you know, ready for war at a moment's notice. You know, and at Checkpoint Charlie, you know, it was, things were fairly civilized, but when you went to the true, like, inter-German border, like my dad told me, and this tract that William Odom said, and with what, you know, enlisted men who served there said, it felt like a war. You know, they were getting buzzed constantly by DDR aircraft. Um, sappers would, uh, would, would screw with, um, the concertina wire. and like probe their, you know, the hardness of their, other fixed defenses.

This was not remotely normal, you know, and so on top of that, like I said, basically, you know, Germany lost five and a half million men, you know, the country was full of like little kids like old people and women and like nobody had a father you know like David Irving talked about that because he said in England it wasn't really as bad but he's like you know Irving's dad

didn't die but he just kind of like went nuts and left the family he was like a Royal Navy vet who like couldn't adjust a civilian life and Irving's like going to school with a bunch of guys who had no dad you know that that completely that creates weird pathologies

you know and especially the Germans like they were you know um the kind of the kind of like soft peddled morganthal plan that became their constitution that's totally bizarre i mean aside the fact it's it's like the moral aspects and aside from the fact that you know it's it's it's tailored to kind of destroy the will of the people to perpetuate itself like that's bizarre you know Oh, you're going to school, and some guy or some lady is, like, reading off a lesson book that came from the Department of the Army, like, written by some crazy Zionist, educating you about how, like, educating you about how, like, you're part of this, like, murderous race of people, you know, who must atone to the Jews, because your history from Meister Eckart until Adolf Hitler is about anti-Semitism. Like, that's literally insane. you know like it's um and um that kind of thing made it impossible for people to trust in authority you know and uh germany more than most societies was was and his one based on social capital

you know like that that that made people act really screwy you know and i that in my opinion the later iterations of the body or minor effect are more complicated. And some ways it's more simple and some of that's more complicated. Just to inject this, my mom would go, my dad told me that my mom would go to East, East Berlin.

So she'd go through, she'd go through Charlie. And he made it sound like, you know, because he was a cold war, he made it sound like, you know, she was being, you know, she would have to do strip searches and stuff like that. No, I asked my mom, My mom's like, I had, I was treated much worse coming back into West Germany by people who looked like me and sounded like me.

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm sure that's true. Because they have, and the museums over there. People don't realize they had amazing museums in like East Berlin. Oh, yeah. And it's the, it's the traditional, I mean, that was a traditional government district, among other things, too. You know what I mean, like, there's a reason why the Soviets wanted Berlin and why East Berlin became the capital. You know, I mean, that's, that wasn't just a mark on a map.

You know, it was, um, or just like a prestige objective. You know, I mean, um, that's Europe Central, you know, quite literally. And yeah, it's an incredible place. And, um, you know. But yeah, the, uh, as, um, apparently, uh, Bauderate reputation, even as a little kid, as being highly volatile, extraordinarily strong-willed. He apparently resisted all authority sort of instinctively. I don't trust these official psychological takes on people in America or Western Europe that declare, you know,

operational defiance disorder. But Bader, even some of his comrades and like Rappies basically detracted with what they said about him. And apparently he came to strongly resent religious instruction. He refused to celebrate

holidays. He refused even celebrate Christmas or observe his own birthday. You know, and And again, even as his people who'd grown up with him were emphatic, that even as a little kid, he was like a kid that others followed.

You know, um, they, uh, but as he was sprung from prison on May 14, 9070, his comrades didn't, they didn't have a plan. Like, they literally had no plan.

Um, Ulrichi Mynoff, she literally had a friend who's this actress who lived a few streets away from the Central Institute of Social Research. Ulrichi Mynoff was an academic, you know, like social science type, and that's where she worked. So her big, her and the guy's big plan was, well, we'll go to your friend's house and demand that, you know, she let us, you know, like use it as a safe house until we figure out what to do, you know. I mean, they traded shots with police, you know, one of whom was seriously injured, you know, which, which again, I mean, rarely happened in Germany, you know, then or no. This friend of Riki Minoff, probably under some degree of duress, you know, they simply rang the doorbell. said we need your solidarity you know the revolution has started um this poor was expecting a woman and got like you know um she was housing these fugitives and

this was this was one of the biggest man hunts of of postworth hines you know and um almost uh almost everybody they were looking for was like sitting in this poor like random ladies apartments but um when this really kind of becomes um when this really kind of becomes interesting is is their their next planned move and this this also represented the change in the ideological disposition of the of the fraction and it all but it also um you know like I said it it indexed with a basic German tendency towards revolutionary action that was authentically German. whoever sort of couched it was in

Marxist-Leninist pseudoscience or you know gobbledy gook or however much it was kind of framed in these like liberationist narratives of the 1960s they agreed the next move

they had to leave Berlin as soon as possible obviously and they uniformly agree they'd go to the Middle East and you know the Palestinian resistance would provide them like aid comfort as fellow revolutionaries

somehow either Ulrichi Minov Bader or both they made the acquaintance of a man named Saeed and Doudin Saeed Doudin is still alive he

he was a Jordanian emigrate he was the son of a Jordanian emigrate to West Berlin and he was a political scientist and his father was this big shot like social researcher and regional studies expert on like Arab societies and political cultures Saeed has never been convicted of a crime

always been hassled by the police you know over decades for various reasons um Said Douddin contacted his people in Jordan. He arranged tickets with East German interflug airline, which was the DDR's National Airline. He booked them nine rooms in East Berlin under assumed names.

And he arranged for people at 20. transport them to East Berlin, you know, about three weeks subsequent. So on June 8, 1970, the first group of RAF operators departed Stonefield Airport in East Berlin for Palestine. interestingly and I believe this one I have to describe was all horse to maller before they departed for the Middle East and in the immediate aftermath I'm talking several days of the prison break an anonymous phone call was made to Michel Ray

she was a former Chanel model and she was a big shot lady journalist in French media. I'm trying to think of this was back in the day when you had like true celebrity, like news people. She was a super glamorous like figure, like personage. Ulrichi Minoff

undoubtedly told Horst Mahler, whoever placed this call, and I'm telling you I'm certain it was Horst Mahler who orchestrated this. About like named Michelle Ray because they very slightly known each other from this magazine called Concrete, which was kind of like, it was kind of like vanity fair, but more serious. And Ulrichi Minoff, you know, being this kind of university type, like mingle in some high society circles, you know, she'd come across Michel Ray and undoubtedly

because like women are good to recognize these things. She's like, look, if you want, if you want to capture cheap clout and you want like rapid. of headlines, you know, we got to contact her, because if we talked to a German journalist or whatever, they're going to try and suppress this. So Michelle Ray was told that if she came to Berlin,

she would get, you know, a quote, big story about, like, the, you know, the new resistance, you know, from the radical left. There's so much rugby on sports extra from Sky, they've asked me to read the whole lad at the same speed I usually use for the legal bit at the end. Here goes.

This winter sports extra is jampacked with rugby. For the first time we've been every Champions Cup match exclusively live, plus action from the URC, the Challenge Cup, and much more. That's the URC and all the best European rugby all in the same place. Get more exclusively live tournaments than ever before on Sports Extra. Jampack with rugby. Phew, that is a lot of rugby. Get Sports Extra on Sky for 15 euro a month for 12 months.

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And she first met Andréz-Badr. Andriz-Botter escorted her back to an apartment safe house where Ulrichi Molle. Mnoff himself and a woman named Gudrin Enslin lived. Goodron Enslin was, it's hard to tell because of the kind of, these more really polyamorous hippies, like that's what some people try to characterize it as. There's Andrews Bader, like having sex with a lot of girls, who he was also like doing dirt with in the street

and like carrying out terrorist activities with. So like Gudron Encelin and Ulrichi Minov, like they were both, like his girlfriends at various times. You know, like it, uh, depending on what was going on. And Gudrin Enslin was very much more of like a doer. Like, Gudrin Enslin, as we'll see, she kind of seems like the kind of broad who like could be your wheelman

if you're like knocking over a bank. Like, O'Riki Mineoff was definitely down. I mean, she handled a gun to help Spring. Bader, but she was very much kind of like a public intellectual type. Who could do things like getting this French glamorous news lady to show up. Okay. So it's pretty obvious, Bader, like Manson, and I'm not saying, I actually hold Manson as some of esteem. I'm not saying this is a

cast shade on butter. He was very good at identifying certain talents in women and getting women to do things that he wanted. Okay. And certain kinds of men, that's like their hustle. Okay. It's not just that they're horny and, like, girls a lot, although that's part of it. women have certain skill sets women can

fly into the radar there that is an effective strategy depending on what you're trying to do it is you know that's why I tell guys not to be like down on women and talking about revolutionary conditions because that's very wrong head

but that's kind of the way to understand it like it's not like I said you you'll read these kinds of seedy deliberately lurid kind of American or British accounts and it's they presented like oh these were a bunch

of hippie degenerates just having some big orgy it's not what was going on and I think that's important to understand the kind of dynamic here you know but all three of them were disguised Michelle Ray had annoyed who they were really

apparently she didn't even recognize O'Reiki Minoff even though they were vaguely knew each other and most importantly course muller was there okay and mowler was one who basically engaged her you know and like i said mowler who remains who remained an important figure under the 21st century in dissident quarters i believe he truly was like the the ideologue behind this whole enterprise he was older he was a lawyer you know he was He wasn't a hot head like Botter. You know, he, it just, it tracks if you, you know, index it with similar groupings of people under revolutionary.

Revolutionary conditions or conditions they believe are eminently revolutionary. Okay, it's, he represents a type, okay? they told Michelle Ray that they kicked off the revolution that the Bundes Republic the center could not hold that they were leaving Berlin

to go to Palestine and fight as Fedellin and possibly murder themselves you know Michelle Ray she passed a copy of the tape she made to der Spiegel, which went nuts and blew it up. You know, and the Roeth Army faction overnight became this internationally known mob of dangerous terrorists. You know, and of course, you know, in America, the claim was like, oh, this is the Ivan's, like, these people are, you know, like KGB or G or you.

You know, the, the Bundes Republic was convinced that, you know there was there's hundreds of people and cells that were about to become active you know it like the like the European secure internal security apparatus you know like completely shit his pants in other words so Mahler knew exactly what he was doing um later when asked why they'd sprung Bader from custody Alariki Meinov said, well, there were three reasons. She said first, she said, quote, first of course, because Andres Bader is a cadre.

The road army fraction, they've got their own vocabulary. When they say cadre, they use the word in a singular noun and denoting a squad leader, you know, or like a cell commander, you know, or like platoon leader. you know and that's also why up until 98

when they ceased operations they'd always name like the action group that was engaged you know after either somebody who was either somebody who was either somebody who'd been like

deceased in action or somebody was imprisoned you know like from their organization you know it had its own culture that was kind of interesting because nobody else did that. It was very much its own thing.

You know, and their symbol was the Red Star with a heckler and Coke, SMG, you know, not like a clash and a cough, not a hammer and sickle.

You know, it was, it's interesting. But, you know, and she said second, you know, we we had we had to see that we freed a prisoner you know his identity being incidental because you know we need to show people what politics is all about today and politics

politics today is about smashing the ability of the state to to impose coercive measures okay and if that if that means killing policemen you know extreme and deranged that might sound that people need to get obituated to that you know and you can only habituate people of that by doing it over and over and over again until it becomes normal. Okay. And finally, she said, if you can free somebody from state custody, it's quite clear that you mean business and you're a serious military actor, okay? Which, as rag-tag as they were at first, that is somewhat true. Springing a man out of close custody is not a small thing. Okay. And again, that might sound kind of basic, but it's really not.

It's sophisticated from what they were trying to do. And again, I believe that's all Horace-Maller. I'm sure he had input from the others, but that's exactly kind of the program he should have been pursuing, you know, for what was about irrationality of what they were trying to accomplish, you know, which was basically discredit the Bundes Republic and so doing

you know create revolutionary conditions on the ground whereby the ex-stand structure including its ability to wage war as a key component of NATO is no longer possible okay and when you consider it in that context I think my whole kind of hypothesis

of the matter becomes a little bit more persuasive but we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves. Who was Ulrich Minov? Or Ulrichi Meinov? She was older than the rest of them.

She was born in the 30s. She was born in 1934 in Oldenburg. Her dad came from a long line of Protestant theologians. And again, something you'll notice here, these kids, these people, these young people, they were basically without exception

all from the Protestant heartland of Germany. The National Socialist heartland in Germany was the Protestant Northeast. Like it was not, these guys like Goldhagen who in the 90s were obsessed with claiming like,

you know, NSDEP was something like Catholic organization or something. It was not at all. and even that aside, like literally the National Socialist Heartland was rural and suburban northeast Germany, literally Protestant pietist Germany. Okay. And especially this first iteration, you know, this got a deeply felt Protestant pietism was like an assessment. was like an essential part of their upbringing as well as other strange things. Now, O'Riki Mainoff also grew up without a father, basically.

Her father died when she was very young of pancreatic cancer. Her dad had been curator of the Yenah Museum, which was prestigious, but not. well paid. So when he died, Ulrichi's mother and her and her sister were in somewhat dire straits. You know, she was at

five and a half years old. She went over to father in the picture. Her mother, and it's not clear, her mother took to having borders live in the house, you know, for money. And this young woman from the university moved in named Renada Remick. And it's not, people obviously today would speculate or that O'Riki's mother and Renata Remick, you know, were like lesbians.

I don't think it's necessarily the case at all, but they ended up moving in together and, like, raising the girls together. You know, so, um, O'Ricke lived in this kind of heavily, like, Protestant household with no father, you know, just like the rebeal counterparts. You know, raised by these two kind of, somewhat, you know, be kind, but kind of dour

Protestant women. her primary school was an all-girls school run by like nuns. So this is, again, this is a totally abnormal environment. You know, like an environment devoid of kind of like normal male authority figures. You know, that's not accidental. I don't think. Renata Rimeck after Ulrichi's mom died when she was a teenager, kind of became her surrogate mom.

And she convinced Ulrique to join the Social Democrats. And at this time, Vili Brandt, Billy Brandt later became the mayor of West Berlin. And West Berlin was really kind of like a culture into itself in all kinds of ways. You know, it wasn't like the rest of the Bundes Republic. But Billy Brandt, he, a consulatory posture with the East and with the Soviet Union, was his big kind of policy coup. He became consular, he went down in flames.

His constant companion and personal assistant, Gunther Guillaume, who was a Vermacht veteran who became a Stasi agent, deep cover agent. Gunter Guillaume stole the NATO nuclear codes from the secured location. in in a in the nanny consular's private safe and I mean this was the

the uh it was report like William Odom said like we we never like we meaning military intelligence has never recovered from that intelligence breach you know they're like the Warsaw Pag just had our number after that in terms of you know the

our ideas on strategic escalation and everything else. But Billy Brand at this time was like a rising star. So Renato Remick and Young O'Reiki Minoff joined the Social Democrats. And all kind of like progressive people at that time, you know, they opposed Adnauer, who did a social Democrats was, you know, a fascistoid. represented a fascistoid resurgence. Ulrichi became insinuated

into academe because they were not a remake who was a professor at the Velberg Educational Institute, okay? And this was more so than in America, especially, you know, Germans kind of like invented the public education system. You found a lot of radicals, especially female radicals,

who came out of this academic culture, including Hanukkah's wife. That's why, like I said, I think very much had O'Riki mine off not clicked up with Andre's Bader, she probably would have been some

SPD organizer who married some guy who was you know, some kind of like milk toast, you know, social Democrats. You know, I, uh, I, I, I really believe that, you know, um, but she did have, you know, it was her, uh, her, her, it was, it was her kind of respectability that, uh, allowed them to index with media, you know, again, she was the one who identified, you know, Michelle Ray as the journalist they should seek out. You know, this was an essential part of the propaganda aspect of the campaign.

Now, who was Gudron Encelain? Gudrin Encelain was Swavian. He grew up in a village called Bartholoma, which was not and is not in the Protestant heartland. We talked about a minute ago, but her father was literally a Protestant minister. okay for folks had been big in the vonder Vogel movement

in like the pre-national socialist days and a little bit beyond this this was kind of like a naturalist movement you know vonder Vogel means like migrating birds um

it was run as part of like the folkish culture okay um in 958 Gujaran visited the USA where she learned to speak English as she was an exchange student for a year

she stayed in Pennsylvania with this Methodist community and she liked the Americans and they liked her but she reported back to her friends and like her you know her Swabian village and her parents that like well you know the Americans aren't pious enough

you know they they um there's something superficial about you know, like the way they're practicing Protestantism and Eisenhower's America. You know, she had that kind of like radical pious perspective, you know, that I think indexed with national socialism in a basic way. When she came back, she started studying English language and a German educational theory. But she quickly but she quickly

lost interest in that when she met the son of the Vil Vesper. Bill Vesper was a folkish poet and a dedicated national socialist. Okay. And his son

was very much in that vein. You know, and he was this kind of like passionate, wild guy who was like a poet himself. And he traveled to Spain a lot. because in those days, obviously Spain was friendly to people like him

and his father. Okay? Gudran's parents were upset by the kind of passion they saw with this kind of like wild guy and her father was prone to throwing him out of the house when he'd catch him there. They were amolified when

the couple got married. But, um, you know, it, uh, again, this, uh, this, uh, Bernwald of Esper

was the son of Ville apparently the father and the son there was huge tension between them beyond the kind of ordinary you know difficulty between fathers and sons but nevertheless

again you know he was still marinated in that blood and soil ethos and he was making regular pilgrimage to Spain. The first trip he took her on was to Spain.

Even if in a critical capacity, you know, the son Bernvard was kind of like rejecting you know, like the faith of the father. I mean, you can't, you can't

truly like escape like your heritage theologically or politically. So it's the only one's first love, which was this incredibly passionate affair, was with the son of a national socialist poet who himself wrote, like, blood and soil poetry and took her to Franco Spain. You know, I mean, I can't believe that Goudron Elson

simply, like, shed all sensibilities of that, you know, and spent the remainder of her life, you know, like staying up late reading Communist Manifesto with her new comrades, you know, or Das Kapital, perhaps. But that, and like I said, she, by the time she'd, by the time she'd connected up with her rural army fraction comrade, she'd become kind of, she was kind of drifting in life. But that, that was basically the core of the first iteration of the Royal Army Fraction. and for context

you know to distinguish to kind of like the German youth movement from you know kind of the American SDS movement and its liberty nature you know Germany was not a free society Adnard

his successor as consular was Ludwig Erhard um Ludwig Erhard he basically banned the public um the playing of music publicly, unless it was like an officially sanctioned performance.

Like the reasoning being, you know, stuff that stirs the passions, whether it's art or music or any kind of evocative things, they can easily be transposed into nationalist sentiments, and this will be a return to Weimar. So kids who'd convene for spontaneous music festivals or even guys just plugging into an amp, And, you know, while wanting to play a kind of spontaneous set in their college courtyard, they'd literally be broken up by the police, you know, and told to cease and desist. In the summer of 62, this became a story known as the Schwabing riots, okay? And then referring to the Schavbing district, where most of these, you know, disturbing the peace incidents were. you know kind of most enforced in the most kind of

heavy-handed way technically speaking you know so it's not I want to disabuse people this idea again that these are like SDS hippie kids were kind of the same coached with the same cloth as like non-draft Dodgers or like

you know fools following Abby Hoffman and having like a chip on their shoulder about shit like it wasn't like that you know I probably got more um I probably got sympathy for the devil in a way that many people don't. But I think this is important not because of my own feelings on the matter or private passions, but I mean, because the struggle of record in this regard is not correct.

I don't mean to be abrupt, but I'm in a lot of pain right now. if we could pick this up um if we could pick this up uh with a final episode i can go for 90 minutes or so and wrap it up sure sure um is that okay yeah yeah absolutely um knock out a couple plugs and we'll get out here yeah for sure man um i'm uh i'm visibly updating my substack and um we're well into season two of the pod you can find both um that real Thomas 777 number 7 HMAS 777 that substack.com. I'm on Instagram. I'm on T-Gram.

I remain on Twitter. There's still some productive discussion there, I believe, where I wouldn't still be there. And the way to poach new contacts, I'm at capital R EAL underscore number seven HMAS

7777 It's the real Thomas And yeah I'm I'm busily Trying to get this manuscript banged out

By by fall And that's where I'm at And again, forgive me if I ended this abruptly. No problem. That's not my intention. Okay.

And head over to my website where I have a page that's dedicated just to Thomas and my movie reviews and links to all of it. And we'll probably have to talk about setting up the next one. So, yeah. Yeah, man.

Yeah. Mystery Science Theater. Yeah. I've been very much enjoying it, man. And we've been getting a lot of, like, really great feedback from people. That makes me feel good. Yeah.

All right, Thomas. Thank you. Yeah man.