The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1133: The Thought of Eric Hobsbawm: Part 3 - 'The Age of Capital' w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

60 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas concludes a series in which he discusses the thought and work of Eric Hobsbawm. In this episode he talks about "The Age of Capital."Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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I want to explain something right now if you support me through Substack or Patreon. You have access to an RSS feed that you can plug into any podcatcher, including Apple, and you'll be able to listen to the episodes through there. If you support me through a subscribe star, gumroad, or on my website directly, I will send you a link where you can download the file and you can listen to it any way you wish. I really appreciate the support everyone gives me. It keeps the show going. It allows me to basically put out an episode every day now, and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate.

I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two, even three a day. and yeah, can't do it without you. So thank you for the support. Head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekinguena show. Thomas 777 is back in. Do you think this will be the last Hobbsbom episode or do you think there's another one in this?

I mean, it's up to you because it's, I mean, it's your platform. and we can go as long as you want on it. I think that, I think three-part series are a good, I think it's a good model for this kind of content. But I'll go as long as you want on whatever topic. I was basically going to conclude what I have to say on the subject today. Let's do it that way and then it gives us a chance to start something new. Yeah, indeed.

yeah no before as I said before I went live I don't feel right today so I started repeating myself or whatever please advise me of that and we're hopping around a bit in terms of the timeline and but I think people have been okay with following it the what's important to me especially in terms of at least what I the kind of real value I find in a house blog I mean, obviously it's this 20th century historiography, but especially World War I, because it's so ill understood, and

it's such a critical event. You know, like, I, this is something of a tangent. Like, the other week, I'm not going to name names because I don't want people to think I'm being mean, or I'm not even trying to, like, suggest something punitive. But I was on this panel

with a few guys, and I was talking about how people, especially in America, but also, basically like across anglophone countries and like their academic culture and stuff. The other say they reject historicism of the continental type, but they fall back in this kind of like midwit idea of oh, history repeats itself or alternatively they like a shoe that. But then they claim that, you know, well, there's not really precedent to extrapolate

so you can't make a search nxy Z. So like, I was making the point that the 20th century basically there's nothing you can glean from that moving forward, either in terms of the strategic landscape or power political development, and this guy's like, well, you can't say that. I'm like, actually, I can. You tell me World War I's going to

happen again. That never, ever happens. You know, like, that's the equivalent of, like, a meteor strike. You know, I mean, so, but that aside, Hobbsbom was interesting, especially the way he characterized the Great War.

I mean, obviously, because he was at base a doctored air Marxist Leninist. He overstated material and economic causes. But there is

nuanced there that I think warrants attention. But first, I mean, a little bit of background in terms of like what laid the foundation for his sort of breakdown of the Great War. Hasbun was very much

he very much proposed the theory of what's now called the general crisis. Okay. What the general crisis refers to is this odd period in the 19th century

whereby on the one hand there was this kind of running stability in terms of power political activity and interstate warring. After Waterloo, after Waterloo, not much

happened in Europe. I mean, a lot happened. But I mean, in terms of war and peace developments, there's the Crimean War, which is very much restricted to the theater, to the primary battle space,

you know, which you know, very much spared the continent. And there's the Francoe-Prussian war which really, that's kind of what started to knock France out of the game

as like a true, like, burgeoning super. And there's, the war. And there's the, that's kind of what started to knock France out of the game. Bower, in my opinion. But that also, I mean, that was, that was kind of the most, that was one of the greatest, like, Prussian victories of all time. But that also, I mean, that was kind of the first of Blitzkrieg in some ways, you know, and there wasn't large-scale civilian attrition in it, you know, but other than that, I mean, the only reasons, I think, like I mentioned before, with so many European mercenaries, like, streamed into the United States. So, like, to take up, to take up arms for pay for, you know, the union or the Confederacy,

because there just wasn't, there wasn't a lot going on. You know, if you were, if war fighting was your hustle, you know, either because that's just what you like to do, you know, you were an action junkie, or like, that's how you made a living. Like, well, you kind of had to look abroad if you wanted to fly your trade, you know. But there was a lot of social instability. And there was a lot of,

There was a lot of sociological, there was a lot of punctuated disturbances. You know, like in the social structure of the main European countries. And like this started really after the 30 years of war. You know, Hugh Trevor Roper is another guy. He was very, very different than a Hobbesbaum, but he basically abided this as well. Okay, like basically, in the middle of the 17th century, there's this total breakdown in politics and social order and economics and everything else.

And this culminated in, you know, the 30 years war. You know, then there's the English Civil War. Then in France, what they call like the front, which was basically like this running civil unrest. You know, and in some cases, just like violent criminality that didn't even really have a political raison d'etreau. It was just like guys kind of like clicking up and like robbing, raping, and killing people under some like loose auspices of economic justice by violence. You know, the Holy Roman Empire, which was actually a really important political structure. You know, I know that there's a lot of Anglophone historians, they kind of like a heartily declare like, it was neither holy no Roman nor

an empire. It's like, okay, that's great. But it, the reason why, like, it took on that moniker was to suggest that, you know, this is a transfer of sovereignty to Europe Central, like, from what was like the Juice public on

the Romanim. You know, I mean, it does track, okay? Um, there was revolts against the Spanish crown in Portugal. Um, there was there were secessionist movements in Naples and Catalonia

and there's also just like jumping off like at the same time you know it wasn't coincidental that something was happening you know and um when when the dust kind of settled

you had this increasing centralization at government okay like we talked about last session there was this kind of like nationalism that kind of took rude but it was like very much like an enlightenment phenomenon.

Like, again, we say like nationalism. We're not talking about some return to sort of like tradition or or some kind of adivistic tribalism. We're saying that like kind of the court in these countries consolidated and it's like, okay, look, you know, like within these sovereign parameters, like we are the only sovereign. We have the power to tax you, you, you and you, you know, the only, the only legitimate men under arms, the ones we, you know, stuff like that, okay? Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest.

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Savour festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails, and dance the night away with DJs from Love Tempo. Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at Guinness Storehouse.com. Get the facts be drink aware, visit drink, aware. Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1,500 euro and gift cards annually, completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over

five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card. Options Card is Ireland's brand-new, multi-choice employee gift card, packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCarrant.comte today. And this kind of central bureaucracy developed to kind of prevent this chaos that have been happening. And this was like a 150 year cycle

from the end of like the 30 years war and the peace of its failure until like the start of the 19th century. You know, but throughout the 19th century despite these, this kind of basic stability in terms of like power of political activity, there was this increasing tension because a lot of these

a lot of these like, you know, otherwise progressive states that it centralized, you know, despite that, they were, they were most of them were, like,

run by absolute monarchs. Or they were run by a court that was essentially staffed by, you know, like an upper house of landed aristocrats. Okay. And obviously,

you know, clergy people still had a lot of clout, you know, the Roman church couldn't assert itself in an absolute way over sovereign governments anymore but it still had great power

so there's this weird disconnects on the one hand like structurally you have the structure of the modern state like as we know it today but it was populated basically by these aristocrats and and clerical types and people who

derive their mandate from sort of traditional modalities that were ceasing to exist. Okay. I want to Haslam's big points, and a lot of people don't understand this about Marxists. Marxists don't look at aristocrats and the bourgeoisie is the same thing. They look at them as opposing classes, which they are. Okay. And the first revolution before the proletarian revolution can happen,

like basically the bourgeoisie have to annihilate the aristocracy. And when that doesn't or can't happen, does this kind of? kind of stagnation in like the Marxist Latinist worldview. Like nothing is progressing. You know, there's not like innovation, government kind of, it has this like monopoly on power, but there's nothing dynamic about it.

And this is critically important. Because I've heard people talk about, and especially because I understand like people develop that impression based on the rhetoric, as well as the experience historically of the Russian Revolution, they view like Bolsheviks as guys who like want to kill

kings or who view like them as guys who just like want to burn down the churches because they view the church as the repressor. It's not the way they look at it. Yeah, they want to do those things. But their whole notion is that the bourgeoisie is a revolutionary element too. It's got to annihilate like the throne and altar and like the European court as it's existed for, you know, millennia and it's now consolidated under the trappings of the moderate state. And then like when the bourgeoisie is able to consolidate control of this modern means of production that can be applied

to basically resolving shortages and poverty. That's like when the proletariat rises up and then like takes over those means. And that's like the final revolution. Then there's like no more class. There's no more caste. You know and like life can be like socially homogenized like in circumstances

of plenty and there's not material need anymore. And because there's not contradictions anymore and there's not there's not material deprivation like there's not war anymore and like all the superstructural features that cause those things you know like like racial problems and things

like those are all like annihilated because they can no longer be exploited either deliberately by design or or just by you know or just you're just owing to intrinsic tensions that that that that cause hostility

or the internal contradictions of of an non-periscive paradigm like that's what they're talking about. Okay. So, Hobbs' Wom's view and Roper's view, albeit for three different reasons that a lot of, like, Anglo historians,

was that this phenomenon I'm talking about, it basically kind of it created this, like, weird stagnation, and these tensions kept on developed this sort of unsustainable momentum. And then by the time

of the Great War, what it essentially happened was you had this kind of like hyper-competitive capitalist paradigm between the major European powers but it was kind of inconsistent

across national frontiers and uneven, okay? So you had the Germans that were absolutely killing it and they were eclipsing the UK which had previously been you know kind of like the like the factory of Europe you know and

British products had been flooding the planet in markets far and wide. Like that was over with. But the newly consolidated German state, like, it was cash poor. And then he had the French who, like I said, they'd been kind of knocked off of their pedestal by the Franco-Prussian war and never really recovered,

you know, frankly, from like Waterloo and stuff. You know, so they were like realizing that like they were going to like the future basically was them being like a junior partner kind of in this like German dominated continent. Europe becomes a superpower, okay? And Hobbs on view is like, look, what the great equalizer is is in military power.

And he's right. And if you don't believe that, I mean, I'll really you this, okay? Like at peak, I'm talking in the era of like undeniable strategic parity, like after 1977. The Soviet Union at peak, its GDP was like one-fifth of the United States. okay its annual growth was like 1.2%

or like something that would be like viewed as pathetic by you know by the by the Bundes Republic or by the United States but they were probably like the strongest

military power that's ever existed on this planet okay so in a Hasbom's view like look if you're being if you're basically being murked like in the great game of of capitalist commerce

and you know they kind of zero sum competition before European integration was a reality your trump card is essentially that you can defeat your enemies on the battlefield you know and there's a certain confidence here

because again you know the Crimean War resolved pretty rapidly. The Francoe-Russian War resolved pretty rapidly. The war between the states here in America was a bloodbath, but that owed this peculiar conditions.

Okay? So going into World War I, the combatant states, like, yeah, I mean, there was complex historical factors that conspired to make it happen. But the major combatants figured that, well, you know, this was going to resolve pretty rapidly

you know and um the British especially thought that and um you know I I this is a discussion for another series but I said during our World War I series that a whole big I think was

I mean here's the really sympathetic figure in the Great War and that perfectly exemplifies like what Hathlund was talking about. The dynamic between like a Holveg, the consler, and the Kaiser. You know, Um,

Wilhelm was not a good man and he, he did not have good command aptitude, but even if he had, there was like this bizarre kind of tango where you had, you had, like, you know, the leader of government in a whole vague, then you had literally the Kaiser, who was the king.

Then you had these industrialists, And both Hoveg and the Kaiser, they had to organize, like, purchasing, you know, arms, munitions, figuring out some way to appropriate manufacturing means to sustain battlefield demands, but also compensating these private actors for, like, you know, their outlays and things. So it's like you've got kind of like three bases of sovereignty that are basically at odds and have competing interests but they're all profiting or at least

you know surviving by virtue of this war enterprise you know and it leaves us conditions where like nobody's really in charge and like how do I made that point too you know and that's why I put him kind of head and shoulders above

most Marxists who just say like oh well what will want to happen because you know of overproduction. You know, like, and that's ridiculous. Like, one didn't happen because there was some conspiracy of capitalists. Like, well, we got to kill off, you know, our workers, because there's, you know, we can't employ them. And, well, you know, we, we don't, we don't have a destination for these overproduced goods. So we're just going to blow them up on the battlefield.

Like, nobody thinks that way. And that's also not why wars happen. And if that was the case, like, if that was true, like, basically any time there was a major recession, like the president would just like devise a war like that that's not all things happen you know like if if there was a huge financial crisis next year

and America and the Chinese wouldn't be like let's like let's pretend to have a war and sink each other's navies like well would that accomplish you know that's I mean I'm being obtuse deliberately but this is an important point because the refrain even a guys should know better it's like well war is about big business

or it's about money you say no it's not man like how is it about money like how is it about money Like how, I mean, yeah, people definitely find ways to profit from war, but you can profit from literally anything. You know, I mean, that doesn't tell us anything. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or. in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.a.e. 4. Northwest. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at Gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Save her festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails, and dance the night away with DJs from Love Tempo. Brett take infuse. amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse.

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You know, but that's, this is fundamentally important. And this, not just the catastrophe of the Great War and, you know, the fact that it kind of deformed an entire generation and put an entire generation in the grave as well. but it these these tensions and these uncertainties this is what uh this is what facilit this is what expedited the bolshevik revolution which very easily by the way could have prevailed europewide you know i mean it's uh i'm the first to acknowledge as any serious student in the 20th century is it's strange that the literal heart of the of the communist international was Russia

that's weird but people conveniently forget or they just don't know because they subjected to bad history you know I mean there was a communist revolution in Germany there was a communist revolution in Hungary there almost was in the UK you know this stuff was

stopped by force of arms. It didn't just fizzle out or something. You know, but this is the way to understand the 20th century and the degree to which, you know, the 20th century was basically

a reaction to communism. I mean, they can't be overstated. You know, in power political terms, I mean, like, obviously we're talking about human life at scale. in any epoch there's an entire myriad of factors across a broad spectrum that um

go into that but um the kind of key takeaway is uh you know um what hosbong called the age of capitalism like facilitated this and like that's um he actually he wrote an essay that became a book called the age of capital 1848 to 1875 and he makes the point the word capitalism it first entered like the academic lexicon in the 1860s

you know from 1848 like after the revolutions in Europe were were quashed in both Europe and America there was this there was this kind of like massive economic boom

okay and that's one of the things that meant that there wasn't another like 1848 revolutionary sentiment because there's a lot of wealth being produced you know but again there were these kinds of obsolete social structures that

were sort of organizing people's lives nonetheless yet these societies were flooded with capital but it was it wasn't it was very much like funnel into specific channels you know not by conspiracy of design or something

but there just was not like a free like individual people did not have a lot of purchasing power and it's created like weird disparities you know like there wasn't there's a lot of like if you're a

if you're a neoliberal economic economist you'd look at this as like basic market inefficiencies. You know, this is why like banking is so important to like the monitorist view. And then they're right about that. You know,

the availability of capital and, you know, confidence in financial instruments, like that's the regulatory mechanism that's essential. But beyond that, you basically need like capital flow, like where it's going to be most efficiently allocated in order to produce

produce wealth and that that wasn't really happening despite the fact that you had you know you you had kind of at the top and also kind of like unevenly distributed like sort of throughout the sociological spectrum you know you had some like some incredible innovations that were like altering people's lives and there was um like government could simply do things that it couldn't before I mean like World War one like that's totally insane. Like the ability to mobilize

like 5 million men, arm them, equip them, feed them, then like turn them loose to like assault your ops. Like, that would be like unthinkable even in like the Napoleonic era. You know? And it's not just modern command and control.

It was like transportation. It was, you know, it was a more efficient fuel sources. It was like more efficient killing technology. It was like, it was all these things. But something else that's important to is Hobblum said

and he was writing this in the 50s he first wrote this I'd say like in the 50s but this age of capital this was like the first this was like the nascent earliest stage of globalization okay because if you were a major

capitalist power you know and again I invoke a capitalist and within the terms Hasblam does I don't use those kinds of terms but um you know you the British Empire held equity basically at every continent you know and um

America was not yet a superpower but you'd find American goods basically all over the world okay and um there wasn't a um there wasn't a unified banking structure but lending across national

frontiers at scale with governments guaranteeing financial instruments that started blowing up. You know, and that, that would have been unthinkable before. You know, in a lot of countries, it was literally illegal for national banks to, you know, to trade across national frontiers or to issue financial instruments in foreign markets. But a lot of countries simply wouldn't deal in your currency. like even if it was a even if it was viewed as you know a desirable currency and speculators would invest in it oh and in person foreign currencies at this time was also largely illegal it was quote-unquote currency speculation it was like literally a crime which is crazy but that that that was the norm you know um but this uh but because of that like in the early stages of any economic system or any paradigm not system but like paradigm does going to be like really really uneven growth okay and that's going to lead to certain disparities I'm not talking like social justice disparities I mean like between

enterprises a lot of capital is being created but a lot is being wiped out like we just mentioned across national frontiers this kind of development is uneven but also certain industries develop a kind of outside's clout okay and not the arms industry per se but the um the kind of a terrestrial manufacturing enterprises that facilitate the arms industry they developed outsized power like as did again um you know financial institutions this wasn't some conspiracy and it's not why we'll were one to happened, but it was a, but it

facilitated resorning to military measures to remedy power political imbalances at scale. Okay, it was a perfect storm at things. And again, that's really important. You know, and

in my own, like, manuscript I try and emphasize this point. And, um, Hazam, I don't, he's not like my primary authority on that, but I do cite him. Um, But, yeah, moving on. It's also, too, domestically,

whether you're talking about the United States, the UK, France, or Germany, the way such things I'm about to mention were characterized kind of differed along the local custom and cultural differences in convention. But kind of like the lingua frank a government became you know this like there was like this

resurgence of sort of like enlightenment chivalrous so whether you were in Berlin London Washington Paris all you heard from government is oh see like this is like an age of unprecedented plenty you know it's the age of reason

and science and progress but people were getting like ground into dust you know and like working in a factory or a slaughterhouse that was like hell you know it's not I tell

a lot of guys in the right who they you know they throw shade on stuff like upton Sinclair's the jungle and I'm like okay I'm like yeah I don't agree with those kinds of conclusions either but what he describes

that's that's that's 100% accurate you know there'd be guys there was no welfare state you couldn't just get like a link card so if you were out of work like you weren't eating

and basically your ability to make a living dependent on your ability to physically perform you know and guys would die on the job like there's like 10% like attrition and like a steel mill or like a slaughterhouse you know and God forbid you get injured or like you lose three fingers on your hand

in some machine you know the biggest surplus in any major city at this time was like that of like able to men who want to work. So did, um, did Hobbswam have anything to say about the move from agrarianism to

basically employment where you're providing for yourself with your own, with your own hands? And then all of a sudden it seems in, in the span of a decade, people are moving to cities to get jobs. Yeah. He, uh, yeah, yeah, he got, he got a lot into that. I mean, the,

the extrapolation of, you know, the household. being the center of production to people being forced to sell their labor as some sort of factory worker like yeah that was tremendously disruptive and

you know it also I mean Havam was insightful and in his sociological take down because unlike a lot of people you know Shumpeter's big critique of the Marxist's paradigm and I'm going to bring this back

I'm going somewhere with this was like, look, like, Marxists aren't really talking about class. Like, the job you do isn't your class. You know, like, your class is what you're born into. And it's defined by how you relate to other people, similarly born to this kind of, like, social stratum, that isn't really mobile. You know, so in Schumpeter's view, which is the traditional view,

it doesn't matter what job you're doing around which money you have. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a class. And class isn't something you can just, like, jump up from or down from, like, within a generation. And Hasbaum accepted some of those premises. He's like, yeah, you know, one of the reasons why the working class exists is because the social capital

that kind of facilitated no blestage oblige, as well as, you know, kind of the communitarian impulse that, you know, stood in for the welfare of state in antiquity and things. He's like, capitalism like rips all that apart, and it makes every man like a stranger, and it enshrines the war of all against

all not only as, like, an implacable reality, but as like a positive good, almost. So, the only thing you have in common with, like, your neighbors, figuratively and literally, is that you're all being

crushed, like, in this, like, industrial labor environment. And, you know, you've got to stand together or all die. And that's, like, what the working class is. You know, it's not a class on, like, the traditional sense. Or there's not some, like, basic affinity between, um, between peoples. Like, they're your comrades because you're, you're, like, in the same way you are, like, with the guys you're, like, unjustly locked in prison with.

You know, it's circumstances that, like, drive you together. so and that actually tracks with like what Mars was talking about in Das Kapital like if when you talk about alienation he's not just talking about the process of whereby labor is not

personal anymore you don't create things you're not a producer you're just doing this like pointless process like over and over and over again that's dangerous and dirty and and painful but it's alienation from your fellow man and even if you haven't to be married like you never see your wife

she's stuck with some dangerous, dirty job, like you have, you know, at the end of the day, like, maybe you, like, get to sleep in the same bed as her, and occasionally you collide in intimacy and have children. But he's like, that alienation touches the concerns every aspect of the workers' existence. It's not, it doesn't just, like, remove his labor from his own domain and creative power. it alienates him from what should be his community, it alienates him from his ethnos, it alienates him from his wife, it alienates him from, you know, he doesn't have neighbors anymore. You know, this all tracks.

And, yeah, so he makes a lot out of that. And that's one of the reasons why this process whereby the vestige of aristocracy is able to, like, hang on to power because people like bonded in peonage they are dependent upon like the Lord of the Manor and this is a deeply psychological process

okay and it's enduring so in a Hasma view okay this alienation that is a matter of life and death in a lot of cases it's not a matter of quality of life like it stands to kill you

he's like really the only remedy these people have is like appeal to the church or to like appeal to traditional social elements that are kind of like the guardians of the culture if you want to think about it that way so they appeal to aristocrats

and stuff you know for justice and that's one of the things that keeps these guys like if not relevant like able to remain like in situ you know that's why Haswell it keeps the revolution

in stasis, there's no chance to have a revolution. Yeah, exactly. And so guys, like a hobbomb, he said, this was the big problem during, like, the long crisis he talked about. Because there was all this, like,

technological innovation and this kind of future shock and disturbance. But political cultures were, like, frozen. You know, and there was, I mean, that's the point of, like, any revolutionary Marx in the 20th century, but Hasman especially,

because I think that he had a particular emphasis as well as insight into sociological questions. He's like, we've got to educate people to break them of these things, of these tendencies. We've basically got to break them with their short-term self-interest or their attachment to it, because we've got to literally kill the aristocracy. We've got to allow the bourgeoisie to conquer everything.

We've got to let them consolidate. We've got to let them create conditions of plenty. before we kill them, figuratively and literally. You know, it's a very brutal view of historical processes, but within the bounded rationality of Marxist-Leninism that tracks.

You know, and there is like a kernel of truth to it, not in terms of its ethical conclusions, but, I mean, like today, this is a bit of a tangent, but I'm always making the point to guys this has died somewhat but it won't die completely

this is a favor of dissoned people as well there's going to be a massive financial collapse in the Great Depression that's never going to happen again okay because it can't happen in the state of information awareness like to the second

information awareness that kind of stuff only happens going to uncertainties there's not uncertainties anymore. That doesn't mean the dollar can't bottom out. But even if it did, that doesn't mean like you're not going to be able to buy food. Okay?

Now, there could absolutely be shortages. I don't believe in climate change in the sense of these crazy people who weren't a stand-in, like, apocalypse cult for them. But I'm certain that there's

all kinds of environmental factors that just going to God's will or the nuances of this planet, I could easily see famine is coming back. I mean, you know, I mean, if it suddenly became impossible to grow certain kinds of crops, that would fool bar everything.

I mean, so I absolutely do not say, like, crises can't happen, but this idea that, you know, like, owing to miscalculation or owing to, like, a gap in, you know, information awareness you know of hours or days like you know like billions of dollars is going to be like wiped out overnight in the stock market

that would never happen again that's retarded you know um and guys like how have one predicted that you said stuff's going to largely be rubberized moving forward there's not going to be like food shortages you know there's not going to it's going to be

very easy to produce things that today him talking in like 1950 these are hard to produce you know you're going to like a lot these problems are going to go away you know and that and it happened you know and that's one of the reasons why

this is I mean this is probably I've got the scope but one of the ways you can tell like our government is like full of like crackheads and insane people is because if they didn't overreach and remotely smart they could basically hold on to power

indefinitely because this isn't the because people aren't going hungry because there's not a military draft where you're expected to sacrifice your son in a meat grinder. You know, there's not a Soviet Union whereby, you know, at any time basically, you know, some enemy society that's like mobilized at massive scale could decide to like sue for war to remedy the kind of uneven power paradigm. you know like so it's you can tell these people are insane because like they're basically burning the house down when there's no reason to do that

but um you know that the degree to which uh that that's also why too I mean like I said I I it's it's dumb for people to claim that people like Mrs. Harris are Marxists anyway

but it's Marxism isn't just Marxism isn't wokeism. It's not it's not liberalism it's a very discreet claim and series of claims about historical processes and in the short term

Marxists absolutely want capitalists to succeed they don't want it to fail they want it to fully succeed they want it to conquer everything and then they want to kill the people at the helms of the apparatus like that's the whole point

you know what what's strange about how it developed in terms of actual praxis is that it did again like the quite literally like the heart of the

of the Bolshevik revolution in the real world was a place that really had no like industrial working class you know it was this like basically backwards monarchy that ruled over this this is this massive territory.

You know, like, the Russian Empire had more in common with the Ottomans than it did with Europe. Okay? I'm not saying, like, racially or whatever, like, I'm not taking a position on that. So I don't want people get mad. But in terms of the way it was structured and in terms of it being, like, an anachronism in the 20th century when it finally got brought down,

it's really, really strange that this is where the Bolshek revolution was consolidated and truly succeeded. You know, that's one of the reasons why when I talk a lot to these guys

not Jackson Hinkle himself I don't know him but I know guys in his orbit and guys who ascribed to that kind of worldview so like there are a lot of their like rebuttals that people like me are like

well you can't extrapolate a lot from the Soviet Union it's like well I can but even if I accept that partial it well I can't extrapolate a lot

even by your own criteria from East Germany okay you know and it's a little you go. Okay, you tell me, like, East Germany wasn't an industrial state. Like, it, I mean, if you want to perfectly realize, like, Marislanda state,

it was the DDR. I mean, that, that can't be argued. I mean, I suppose, like, there, I suppose their, like, rebuttal of that would be, like, well, that was an artificial state that emerged out of, like, military exigencies, and, you know, the fact that it was beleaguered and threatened,

you know, owing the conditions imposed by capitalists, like, is, like, is, somehow like takes it off the table as a pure example of praxis. But be as it may, you know, the, to bring it back. And again, I forget me if I'm ramblings, I don't feel good. But the degree of which, again, like, actual Marxists viewed these things as necessary processes, like,

can't be denied. like Marxists would not be in the street saying like we need we need we need Acme widget company to hire more women because it's bad not to and they wouldn't be saying like we need to tax these people more like none of that would be like in their horizon they'd be like we want Acme widget company to become like as massive

as possible we want it to insinuate itself into everything we want it to be able to produce everything we need you know, almost like magic. And then we want to kill the people who own it, and we want to take it, and we want to make it the public domain of the workers. That's what they want, or wanted. Like I said, I like guys like Jackson Hinkle.

I think they're playing an important role right now, if you're any kind of dissident or any kind of actual resistance actor. The real interesting thing about that is, it's the way you know that these people who call themselves Marxists or call themselves communists nowadays aren't because they would want Elon to succeed and take over and become, you know, like my friend Matt says, his own Hanseatic League. They'd want him to do that so then they could take it over by force.

But they should all over him and, oh, you know, yeah. Well, the point that the degree to which these people, today are just like goofy envy crats who are like, it's just, they're just like people who are like that guy's a big shot, I don't like him, it's like that basic, you know, and it's like it doesn't, and like you can only

that too is a symptom of prosperity as well, because even you read, Ernst Younger was a fascinating guy in all kinds of ways but he lived through this stuff and you know, he kind of, um, he was kind of a stressorist man, you know, like he was very much a social,

list. And if you read something like the Glass Bs, the character of Zaporone, like, he's obviously kind of a matchup of like Howard Hughes and Andrew Carnegie and like Walt Disney. But, you know, and like

guys like Zaporone are a real type. But, you know, guys like younger thought these guys were historical giants. They're like, these guys are going to change the world. They're going to change everything. And they're playing an essential role in this historical process. You know, that's, it's not, I mean, I'm as anti-communist as it's possible to be.

I don't think that should be in dispute. But communists, they're not dummies or they weren't dummies. We're just like, I don't like that guy because he has more stuff than me. It has nothing to do with that. You know, like, it's not, it's not just, like, dumb, lumping bullshit or, like, guys who think, like, gangster rappers or something. like that's not like that that's fucking retarded you know and um this uh these it's it's these like internet guys who have never read a book in their life like calling people moxas it's like goofy as fuck but um but no i think um you know and today uh i realize i'm

going kind of outside of scope don't forgive me for that it's um boring people but guys like emmanuel wallerstein um who, uh, these kinds of post-Marxist types, who do, like, talk about, you know, social justice within globalism. I mean, yeah, obviously, I don't, like, have common cause with those guys, but they're really the only, like, intelligent aspect of the left. And I think those guys are making a comeback because everybody hates the fucking regime and, like, literally everybody hates liberals. Like, everybody fucking hates liberals and things are, like, awful pieces of shit. You know, um, that's why, like I said, like, people,

I mean, people throw shit on me all the time. I don't care. I'm not here to make friends and I'm used to it. But, you know, they get mad at me, whether it's because, you know, I got respect for Muslims and view them as, like, an essential part of the new resistance, or they get mad at me for, like, retweeting, like, Jackson and Hinkle or something. But it's, like, they don't understand part of bringing down the regime and discrediting it is, like, pointing out, not just having it.

how morally bankrupt it is, but how like, staggering or, like, ignorant it it is, and its accolades are. You know, and, um, if there's, if there's a serious left wing with revolutionary ambitions, that's not a bunch of degenerate natural slaves, like, that's, that's a

good thing, man, like, how's that bad? You know, like, you've got, people can't, like, take their, like, personal feelings out of stuff. It's pathetic. It's, like, talking to a bunch of, like, is, like, talking to much little kids, or, like, modeling old women or something, but the, um, But that's, you know, and that's also why, you know, again, the, like I said, we started out, like that dude, I'm not going to name, you know, acting like I was dropping cap when I was saying, like, you know, the, it's asinine to, you know, to arrange force structure or to conceptualize grand strategy in, like, 20th century.

terms, you know, like the, like, 20th century wars can never happen again. That's never going to happen again. You know, it's not going to happen again in a thousand years. You know, like that, um, that's the end of the, uh,

the, uh, the changing, um, like, like, everything these days is changing. Like I, you know, like, I made the point before about, like, just today I was talking to some of the fellows about, like, public education is dying and nobody believes in any. anymore. So is law enforcement. Like a couple of months back,

like I see it in Chicago now, like I said, even, you know, like policing is going to be privatized. It's, you know, in the south, like, I mean, I'm sure you see this. You know how, like, they're still trying to fight the war on drugs? Like, it's 1982 or something. And, like,

there was this ridiculous press conference and they, like, the Tennessee Bureau investigation. They held this, like, press conference. It was them Homeland Security, ATF, FBI. There was this whole mass investigation to literally bust

these two outlawed bikers, like, slinging meth. And they're like, we're taking drugs off the street, and the comments were like, you people are idiots. You know, they're like, what do you think this is? You know, it's like, there wasn't like a single positive comment, man.

And it's like, this is like a time war. It's like, what the fuck are these people doing? You know, like nobody believes in that garbage anymore. Now, now you got Homeland security, like, shaking down, like, trailer park meth heads, really? You know, like, that's, like, that's pathetic, man. You know, this whole apparatus, the people sustaining it, there are these, like, increasingly aged parasites who can't, like, adapt to the 21st century.

You know, and that's one of the things that swept Trump into power, it's the kind of stuff of Hobbsbomb and, frankly a lot of the Marxists we're talking about. like they the way they would have viewed Trump is like you know they wouldn't have viewed him as some like arch reactionary they would have been like well this guy is basically a con man

but he's saying he's going to like sweep away these obsolescent aspects of of state that people like don't think serves their interests anymore and that's why a lot of people voted for Trump it's not I mean yeah there's like people who just like love Trump

there's people who you know like who would have voted for RFK Jr. who are just like protest voters. But like your average man or lady who's not particularly politically sophisticated nor inclined, like they voted for Trump

because their instincts are basically sound and they're like what the hell's going on here? Like we, they'll put together that this regime that live under is like this 20th century obsolete structure. They don't think about it in those terms. They realize like this is like a zombie regime.

Like it doesn't make sense anymore. Like why you know, like it's, it's, um, and then, you know, it's, uh, it's really interesting to see this develop in real time, man, you know, and that's why, um, one of the things, like part of my vetting process, the people who I kind of take on his allies, um, I mean, that's a complicated process. I can't really break it down into like criteria,

but my thing that's essential was like if, like, we do not want reactionaries. We do not want people who think that good old days were dope or that we need to like turn back time or that or people who think like EnSIG is like making things like where we take over the government and can like manage its bureaucrat.

It's like people like that or not with the program. And I mean not only is that like not at all what we're about but that's that's got nothing to do with the trajectory of history and stuff like that. I don't mean to be I don't mean to like abrogate this, but I really don't feel good.

So if we could like, if we could wrap it up, that'd be great. And if you want to do another episode, because this wasn't up to snuff, we can absolutely do that. No, I appreciated the conversation at the ending because I think that's a conversation that people on the right need to hear. That, yeah, I think there's too much of a jump towards capitalism solves everything, you know, and I've been reading. some of lists letters lately and it's really opening up my eyes to just how damaging

the especially the overseas the globalism just what it does to you know the Volk and the Met Oh yeah

what's also why it's crazy these people think they hate Muslims for no reason because some like Zionist on TV told them to or because they think that because they think that like some like shitbag immigrants who did something to do them as like Islam. It's like man, you want to know, like Darla Islam's been getting

crushed man by globalism for decades. I mean like they're on the front lines of this shit. Like what's happening to them is as bad as what was done to Europe. Like you think that's cool. Like these guys, your ops because they're like fighting back against that shit. It's like get the fuck out of here. I mean, people actually think that way are my

ops, you know, like it's yeah, yeah. But it's also too, like they, it's part of internalizing like enemy um conceptual vocabulary like people who they they just like mirror like they use terms like racist or like they think like oh I'm a capitalist

because that's who my ops like say I am it's like so you define yourself or like somebody like Mrs. Harris or Joe Biden says or like what some like idiot Berkeley professor says like I I mean how basic are you you know I don't use those kind of terms because again we're talking about people like Hobbs I kind of have to use

his shorthand. You know, it's like, but I don't, there's not, there's not really, I'm not like a Kaczynski guy. I know, like, a lot of, like, I know a lot of, like, dissident type dudes really, really, like, head K.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with, like, being into him. Oh, I've, I've, studied him extensively. I've read him extensively. Yeah, but, well, you call it industrial society. That's a lot more accurate. You know, like, um, And post-industrials.

People think that that book, people think that book is like, I have a friend who says, oh, you can take an Al Gore book and hold it right up next to it, and it's the same exact thing. It's like, no, he's writing about the human condition. He's writing about what the industrial revolution did to the human condition. Is that what I read his whole-al-Gore? No, that's fucking retarded. Well, I mean, these guys are just, like, say things. I guarantee these guys, like, never read a book except maybe, like, some fucking airport

paperback, but I, um, no, I remember when the manifesto dropped in 95 or 96, I think it was in, I think it was like late summer 95, well, like, when it ran in the papers, late summer, late summer 95, yeah. Yeah, when I ran the papers, like, I made sure, like, I, I read it, you know, and it was, um, it was, uh, it was insightful stuff. I mean, he's got some blind spots, like, especially a lot of, like, Massivant types do, like, a lot of those guys don't really, fully grasp, like, politics. But the stuff he, when he was talking about technological development and the impact on production and labor and how man like individually and collectively interfaces with that, that was pretty insightful.

And like I said, the term industrial society that that's a lot more meaningful than capitalism. You know, and it's, and obviously too, like a term inherently reduction is like the capitalist is just everything he does. It's just like stack up capital and like assets. It's not the way people think. Like even some guy on Wall Street who's like, you know, kind of a stereotypical wall here hustler, that's not like the way he thinks. Like he's, you know, he... And at base, the reason he like, the reason the guy like that, his world is defined by money

is because that's like power activity in his world. And that's like a way, that's a way he can like engage in power activity congruous like his discreet capabilities and like psychology. It's not because like money is like this ending itself. to everybody, like in the capitalist system. So, I mean, these things are important. But, yeah, like, again, man, like I said, sorry if this wasn't up to par, but I, this, it's been, I'm not trying to be a murder, but just because I do have responsibility to people.

Things this week has not been great in terms of my whole. I think people, I think people like this episode more than you think. Okay, that makes me happy. Do, do plugs real quick. Yeah, man. As always, I, I think. try and direct people to my website. It's Thomas 777.com.

It's number 7. H-M-E-S-7777.com. I'm going to tweak that some, man. I was going to try and get on top of it at this week. But it's dope. The kid who put it together, he's great. And anytime I drop anything new, it pops up there on, like, the feed.

So that's, like, a good way to, like, keep up with stuff, if you like the stuff I do. I'm on social media. at capital R-E-A-L underscore number 7, H-M-A-S-777. The best place to find me is Substack. That's where my PODD is and stuff. It's Real Thomas 7777 at Substack.com.

And, yeah, in the description, if you could include some MERSC links too, like a big like t-shirt and clothes and merch guy um and uh that's actually been selling pretty well which makes me very happy but yeah that's um that's what i've got i'll take care of that for you all right thank you appreciate it yeah likewise man