The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1138: The History of California and Its 'Occupation' w/ Thomas777 - Part 1

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

64 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas starts a series in which he examines California's past in an effort to reveal why the state "went blue" when it isn't actually a "blue state."Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Peking Yonet show. We are here for a new series. How are you doing, Thomas? Very well. Thank you. Well, this is actually a request that I got during one of my Sunday live streams. Somebody said that you always talk about how California used to be like white America was,

it was like the pinnacle of white America and that it was destroyed on purpose. And it became, it is what it is now, and that was done on purpose. So, you know, the idea is, you try to go over the history and explain exactly how that happened. Well, I mean, it's two things. I mean, there's the demographic situation and there's dysfunction in that regard and, you know, a kind of cultivated anarchy. But it's also, look, California is also just not a blue state. It didn't one day become a blue state in 1992. that's not how things work

that it'd be like it in 2028 it's declared Illinois is now a red state it's as red as Texas it can never be flipped and that's just how it is you know I don't accept that that's preposterous

and plus just the the facts don't bear that out whenever there's a plebiscite because I mean California's got an unusual constitution you know that's why they hold these plebiscites. Like somehow every time there's

a social issue put to an open vote, whether it's what the regime euphemistically calls gay marriage, whether it's affirmative action, there's always like a raw majority against it. So California is this like

rabidly liberal, safe blue state but when people go to the polls, they always like vote this stuff down and then the Ninth Circuit steps in to reverse the plebiscite. I mean like what? So how does that work? You know, and it... The reason why, you know,

not only were Reagan and Nixon products of the California political culture, but even, like, resistance types and fringe people, like the birchers, that was, like, their heartland. Like, Tommy Messker was in Los Angeles, really until the SPLC went after him because of the unfortunate incident

with Ken Mieski and that a Mugoleta-Sar guy who lost his life when incident in this fight it's kind of like a nothing thing, you know what I mean? It was young guys being foolish on both sides of that

conflict. And a guy lost his life, unfortunately, and you know, the local authorities swept in and Morris D's like, old proverbial carry on to feast on and a way to make money off of the misery of others,

which he was never going to pass up. And, you know, Metzger was, he had to protect himself, you know, from this lawfare that was being deployed against him. So you're not moving to Indiana. But, you know, there's a reason why, you know, like he made his home in Los Angeles. because that's fertile ground for those kinds of politics

and even at this day, like I realize that you know, you can't extrapolate what a political culture is in terms of its substantive tenor you know, from the street or the prison yard, but somehow like California's like

it's unbelievably like racialized in the penal system and on the street in a way like that'd be unheard of in Chicago. Despite Chicago being, like, massively segregated. So it's like, so California is basically like the Sweden of the United States, but on the street, like, people only align by race.

And, like, if you talk to some guy across the racial divide, like, you've got a problem. You're going to get, like, regulated for it. Like, that's interesting. I don't see how that's possible. You know, so is that. And I'll get into the, the substance of our discussion in a minute.

But I don't know why people who take this at face value. It's like you wouldn't... You know, if FMSNBC tells you that Vladimir Putin is some like dangerous madman or if they tell you that Donald Trump is is

a rapist or whatever ridiculous and vile cap they're favoring at any given moment. It's like you wouldn't believe that, but you believe it when they just declare that California is insurmountably blue. Like, why would you believe that? Plus, this is not all electoral politics works. There aren't just, quote, safe state.

So it's like, we're not going to campaign in Texas or we're not going to campaign in California because it's safe. That's not how you run a campaign. You know, like, if Reagan had done that, he wouldn't have slept the country. Like, you just don't challenge in these major and essential electoral prizes because they're safe states. I mean, that's obvious horse trading. It's obvious that you know,

there's a combination of of technology and the ability to aggregate data in real time and you know, kind of changing parameters within the political

culture at federal level. And a bunch of things like this. So like after the Cold War, it's like, well, we're basically going to take we're going to take certain like electoral college prizes off the table and like only fight in certain states that's part of horse trading like

we get Texas, you get California I mean this is this is obvious you know and especially in the case of California like I very much got Chicago and my DNA but you know I don't have deep roots here like my folks are from Watson

I mean my mom was long gone but my dad and my mom was from Los Angeles. And I my early life, I spent a lot of time there. You know, and

so it's not just academic to me, you know, like I saw what Southern California was like in the 80s. You know, I mean, and it wasn't like people claimed it was. You know, and I was there throughout the 90s, too. I mean, not as much regularity.

Like the last time I was out there was 2000. But, I mean, it was the same deal. I mean, there's weird stuff there. There's definitely a lot more kind of open license things than you'd find in Chicago or like in the South. But this idea that it's some, like,

that's a great big Berkeley, or that it's, or that it's like Eugene Oregon. And like, that's ridiculous. You know, it's incredibly racialized. It's incredibly segregated. you know, the people there have a very law and order of sensibility, especially considering the kind of, unless you're talking about, unless you're talking about East LA or unless you're talking about some of these like day one white hoods, or unless you're talking about what remains are like blacks Southern California,

which is ceasing will exist. I mean, there's just a fact. I'm not talking about some shit. Like unless you're talking about hoods like that, like people don't know nor trust their neighbors. Like it's, you know, it's not at all people claim it is.

So, I figure we could probably make it as a three-part series. Like, today I want to get into the kind of history of how California

became California because that's important. You know, I was in a discussion the other day about Wisconsin because Wisconsin is an unusual state. You know,

like on the one hand, like on the one hand, they'll go for Bernie or they'll go for Trump as, is like protest gestures but it's like

the same population that goes for both and they you know they abolished the death penalty when I was basically unheard of they were founded

by a bunch of Bavarians um essentially uh I mean I'm in the culture there I don't mean like this the governmental apparatus a lot of whom were kind of the 1848

refugee kind of the refugees of 1848 you know so they've got they had a peculiar ideological persuasion. You know, in California, from day one,

it was very, very racialized. You know, and there was a number, there was a successive incidents of secession movements during the war between the states. And there was concern,

there was concern that a bunch of free soilers who were, for all practical purposes, like rabid white nationalists, and some of these some of these Spanish people both people literally descended from Spaniards you know as well as as as well as like Mestizo people you know who owned land in Southern California

who remained after the Mexican War there was concern that they were going to click up and they were just going to tell the federal government to go to hell and say like we're our own territory now come get us you know this is not a state that is a heritage of tolerance or multiculturalism

in the way the term is bandied today or of love for the federal government and even if that was true again let's say everything that was alleged is true that California just can never be flipped it is always blue because of Mexicans so Hispanics love

senile old white ladies like Nancy Pelosi. They love like vulgar yenta's like Barbara Boxer. Like really, they don't want their own people running things. You know what they say is true, you'd have some like young like

you know, some young basically like socialist like Mexican guy whose whole thing was, you know, like justice for like the farm workers and and probably some kind of weird pastiche of liberation theology Catholicism.

and that kind of like crusading evangelical sensibility that that tends to be i mean not not in terms of sexual stuff or or social matters but in terms of economic matters like left wing like that's that's who california be full of in terms of its garment if what was being alleged was true it wouldn't be some it wouldn't be some like a zombie fight hag white lady you know like who everybody despises you know like that's ridiculous so i you know i'm trying to to disabuse people of those notions, but yeah, with that background laid, we'll

kind of get started. The key to kind of California's existence as a state, you know, was the Mexican War. When Mexico City was captured by Winfield Scott, he was the commander on the ground. And the Mexican War was formative at all kinds of ways.

Stonewell Jackson, he was an artillery officer on the ground there, and he you know this this is basically where the guys who came to make up the the core of the Confederate Army like learned out of fight with combined arms you know Winfield Scott Jefferson Davis Zachary Taylor Stonewall

Jackson when he'll Scott and Jefferson Davis became real rivals in ops like way back then and Winfield Scott of course he essentially defected to the union cause if you want to look at it that way and he was responsible for he died

very shortly after the onset of hostilities in 1861 but he played a key part in devising the Union battle plan in terms of you know

mobilization and devising logistical infrastructure and things like that but this kind of political California was a microcosm after the Mexican war of the political divide that developed between the Democrats, which were then the Jacksonian Party and the Whigs, and we're going to get into what that means. And California today is the

legacy of that in real terms, not in terms of the propaganda narratives. But you catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive. By design. They move you. Even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro. Search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera. Design that moves. Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited, subject to lending criteria.

Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited, trading as Cooper Financial Services, is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear.

From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle New Bridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Liddle, more to value. When Mexico City fell on September 15, dating 47.

Like the end result was that Mexico Mexico was essentially required to secede over half of its territory including the present day including with present day California and Nevada Utah, most of Colorado New Mexico, Arizona, and a small part of Wyoming.

You know, I mean, Mexico after it achieved independence from Spain, I mean, it was it was setting itself up to be a major power. you know, people forget that. Like Mexico today is basically like a rump state. Okay. The American delegation and President Polk,

and Polk was actually a really good president, and serious historians have started crediting him with that. Polk was a protege of Andrew Jackson. Okay. And he was very much like a Jacksonian executive. you know, he he viewed the kind of like white

warrior yeomanry as like the backbone of this country. He viewed the president as having a special mandate because he's the only nationally elected representative. Like, he had contempt for Congress.

He thought, you know, the judiciary had nothing to say on trying to restrain authority express he delegated through article 2, but he was a great man. And he

basically accomplished all of his objectives in a single term. He said when he took the other of Oz, he said he would not run for any more for a second term. He would not seek incumbency and he didn't. He was a great president.

But Polk realized like we can't impose a totally draconian piece on these people, we've, you know, the Mexicans. He's like, we've got to, we got to conversate them somehow. All told, the U.S. government paid Mexico $15 million. In the literal language of the peace agreement, quote,

in consideration of the extension acquired by the boundaries of the United States. And then the government also, like, it, that Polk's administration like it's it satisfied like publicly held debts like owed the Mexican government by American citizens okay so on the one hand Mexico became like a rump state

like almost fiefdom of America but I mean they were compensated you know if this wasn't Polk and Polk realized too like a lot of these southern officers I mean God love them like they're my own forebears but he realized there was a potential all these guys like putting their boot on the heels of Mexico's neck and basically,

you know, basically like ruling like, like, like, you know, like, occupation of warlords. And he's like, we can't, we can't hit it, you know. And, uh, Winfield Scott was a, was a very impressive guy and a great general law officer. I mean, I've got no love for his politics. but, you know, any

commanding general, especially in those days where, you know, commanding control was truly in situ. You know, you needed a president who had actual authority behind his his dictats.

You know, they kind of bring that power to bear. The but the the piece of Guadalupe Hidalgo pen with the paper on the 19th

of it was finally ratified in the 19th of May 1848. Like I still at he's ended, you know, with the fall of Mexico City, but it was months later that his treaty was hashed out. Nicholas Trist, who for all practical purposes was kind of the first secretary of state,

like in the Department of State, as we think of it. He was sent down there as Polk's representative to liaise with Winfield Scott. What he ended up doing was Polk, as well as the military establishment, had wanted Trist to push way harder from her territorial concessions. Trist didn't do that, but initially Polk said he was willing to pay the Mexicans $30 million dollars in compensation. Trist literally have that number, okay, which honestly is like splendid negotiation. But Trist kind of became persona non-grada subsequently. But Trist associated with a lot of no-nothings and native as types.

It's interesting. You know, and a lot of these guys, Trist, it wasn't, he kind of played both sides of the aisle. because on the one hand, like, you paid lip service to these guys who wanted to expand slavery westward and presumably a lot of these same elements, particularly in the military establishment, who were almost all Southerners, you know, who were part of this kind of core group of officers

who'd won the war in Mexico. Like, presumably, they wanted to expand slavery, like, you know, deep into one. would have been Spanish America as well. You know, and Trista was unwilling to get behind that. Like, he stood on business for, like, slaveholders' rights, and, like, he was a slaveholder, but he came down on the side of the free soilers with, we cannot expand this westward. You know, and I think that was a source of some of the tension, and Polk struck

very much kind of the same sort of compromise in terms of what he was willing to publicly advocate for and like to understand the history of the West, the American West, like you've got to take that into account. You know, the degree to which it was kind of a fight

between these Jacksonians who basically wanted to make the West like an extension of the American South and this kind of like, this kind of like

agrarian slave empire and these free soiler types who were basically allied with big business and what became like the kind of new Republican Party around Mr. Lincoln which was kind of like

the vestigial elements of the wigs you know they didn't they were opposed to slavery but they but not for like the reasons that like Quakers were that these crazy or like John Brown type of abolitionists were. One of the reasons they were opposed

with is because they were very hardline white nationalists. They didn't want like non-white people. They need slavery as like this degenerate practice. You know, in no small measure because it involved like racemixing and things. Like these are the people,

these are the political factions that were like fighting for dominance in California. Like progressives were in order to be found. They didn't exist. you know, um, so that that's relevant to our discussion here

because it's like, okay, I mean, if you're going to claim that like New York is like a progressive heartland, that's overstated too for all kinds of reasons, but I'll accept it because you do have that culture in, uh, in New York,

in Boston, throughout New England, dating back to literally the early 17th century. It doesn't exist in California. You know, yet you're supposed to believe that I guess one day in the 1970s this became the dominant culture

and now it's just, now it's just ironclad and insurmountable. It's not how things work. You know, and this stuff doesn't matter. You know, people, they develop these conceits, I guess, because they imbib what they're told by regime-adjacent media and things that somehow precedent is just wiped away after

1989 or something and after the Cold War you know the the enduring conventions in any given locale just like don't matter like that could not be farther from the truth that's just not that's not political life that's not everything's work you know um history

believes into the present and all kinds of ways. You know, and especially when we're talking about political cultures and the kind of nuances therein. I mean, that's why we have an electoral college. It's not some weird conspiracy or whatever

you know, the Walmart shopper types think. Like, nor is it something that the federal government thinks of some great thing. They had no choice. You know, because otherwise there's not going to be, there's going to be a legitimate gap, you know, a mile

wide if such things aren't abided, you know, and the reason why those things exist is on grounds of historical imperatives. But moving on, Trist had been a liaison to Cuba, and he spoke fluent Spanish,

and he seemed to have an affinity kind of for Spanish peoples, you know, both like the Spaniards themselves, as well as you know, some of their mixed race and indigenous charges and things. And there's speculation that both at the time and subsequent,

some of which views this as a laudable thing, some of which is repunitive, that he sympathized with the Mexicans more than he cared about with Polk and Winfield Scott wanted him to get done. You know, so he found a way to basically like let the Mexicans preserve, especially, you know, these

these military types who were sitting at the negotiation table he allowed them to like retain some of their honor as officers and as men while also you know managing to managing to save the public administration literally half of the

expenditure that they'd anticipated it's interesting to speculate on I think that's probably true okay but um the uh but yeah he didn't he and

both Paul and Winfield Scott were not at all happy. And subsequently, Trist was ordered to leave Mexico and he refused. He just stayed there. He wrote a 65-page letter

back to Washington. Like, how anybody could write a 65-page letter in those days is incredible. But that's what he did. And he outlined his reasons from staying in uh staying in theater

and uh he spared uh he he um he did not the opportunity to go to ways to explain you know how he'd uh

executed a brilliant negotiation you know and uh managed to bargain down Santa Ana to accept you know only $15 million dollars in compensation for the concessions but um you know the uh so all told um poke uh had wanted uh the concessions to extend to specifically include

baha california um trists had drawn the line you know and and presumably this is one of the reasons by san anna had been so amenable um he drew the line directly west from yuma to t yon in San Diego, instead of from Yuma South to the Gulf of California, which left all of Baja as part of Mexico. And that's really what infuriated Polk. Okay.

But, you know, you a great diplomat, I mean, don't get me wrong. I think Chris was compromised if you want to look at it in those terms. Absolutely. But you can't second against a diplomat as to what he says is

is a key concession that, you know, your the opposing party will, you know, considers to be, you know,

non-negotiable. You've got to defer in some measure to your diplomatic corps, you know, even if you were a very, even if you were a very hands-on executive and any wartime executive is going to be hands-on,

you know. So, this is a complicated figure. Like, forgive me if that was seemed like a boring tangent it's actually important not just for the subject on the table today but just understanding american diplomatic history and you know Mexico is in it's what happens in Mexico remains important for all kinds of reasons I mean we're dealing with that today and it's it's a key it's a key issue upon which Mr. Trump's you know campaign for the presidency in 2016 and today is hinged on. But, yeah, it's important, too, to understand the degree to which kind of the war between the states,

and we'll get into the experience of California and the American Civil War. But, you know, the West wasn't, the War between the States changed everything in what was then kind of the established United States of America, with the western most boundary of the actual United States not being much beyond where I'm sitting right now.

Arizona was a Confederate territory and some of the final battles in the Western theater spilled into the American Southwest. But California wasn't really, they weren't impacted in the same way. So

it's almost like things even after the Civil War amendments and even after a lot of this after the radicals were able to impose reconstruction on the South you know and even even during

the period people view as either alternatively you know the gilded age or or the long depression you know from like the 1870s to around the turn of the century

like the stuff that was happening in sociological terms in the rest of the country wasn't really impacting the West you know it was it was like remote to them you know and it didn't really like the bad lines were still between the people who'd been kind of like wig

you know wig slash Republicans you know free soiler types and these Jacksonian Democrats who again were basically who were basically confederates and all but name you know one of the

and the thing that kind of both held in common was this like highly racialized view of politics you know we'll get into this in a minute because it bears on one of the significant

secession movements that some of these parties in the United in California tried to try to get off the ground you know it was literally illegal for blacks to settle in Oregon you know and that was a free soiler

imperative it wasn't racist Confederates who were implementing that stuff you know the reason why for it and rather than trimming around a bit was because there was concern about you know this Indian

native population you know developing a real enmity with a black population that you know presumably a potential to swell and was significant demographic and that wasn't unfounded like there'd been violent incidents

between black folks and between Indians and Oregon you know but it's also you know the Oregonians they weren't going to like turn Oregon into some like some dysfunctional like multicultural state you know and they

it meant nothing to them if people you know this uh this was in 1840 8050s you know the like the post

bellum decade after the Mexican war it meant nothing to them if people tried to sell them on like abolitionist moralizing you know like what is it so what

that means nothing to us you know that's that's that's your problem and your dysfunctional a little corner of the country where you know you can't you can't come to terms

over slum slavery. What does that have to do with us? You know, that was the degree to which the West Coast was kind of this remote place. I mean, that carried on until after World War II.

You know, so again, it's like where where did this supposedly rabidly progressive California come from? I mean, one day it appeared spontaneously in the 70s. I mean, that's not all things work. But the key to this stuff

to for conduct it was the presidential election of 1844 and this was this was key to kind of how the bad lines ended up being drawn in the war between the states

as well as California's political culture Polka ran as again as a Jacksonian Democrat against Henry Clay who was the Whig candidate and it's important as to enter the Whigs were

because the Whigs became the Republican Party. Okay, like the new Whigs. There's a difference between the old wigs of, you know, the, the Revolutionary War era, you know, and the guys who called themselves the Whig Party of the mid-19th century. Between the 18, 30, 1850s, like, they were, like, they were one-half of those was called the Second Party system.

Okay, and four presidents, ran on the week ticket is William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, Zachary Taylor and William Philmore, Daniel Webster, Rufus Choate,

William Seward, John Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, like these were these were also like their most prominent standard bears. But the wig base of support,

again, they were entrepreneurs, they were professional people, um, hardcore Protestants, particularly evangelicals who disproportionately settled California, and the urban middle class. Uh, it had almost no backing from unskilled laborers and poor farmers, and even guys, even like agribusiness types, um, in those days, you know, so this, again, this was, and they basically, uh, they had, at the time they'd claim that, they were like the descendants, like the Hamiltonians.

They'd say that we're like the Federalists. You know, this is the day one Republican Party, okay, for all practical purposes. And they viewed California as essential to a lot of their ambitions. You know, and aside in the fact that, you know, again, they had what we consider white nationalist sensibilities. Like they viewed, they viewed the Confederate cause. and sympathies they were in

as like holding back the country. You know, something that's also lost in the shuffle. You know, until after World War II, Republicans were high protectionists. You know, and the Whigs believed in that high protectionism.

You know, they wanted to jealously guard American domestic markets and they wanted to protect and subsidize American industry. It was the Southerners who were the free traders. You know, as anybody who's, like, if your, if your economy is dependent on what amounts to, like, a one-crop paradigm, figuratively or literally, you know, as the Confederacy did, like, you're, like, you're going to be a free trader of a sort, okay? but this you know

this is important because I've run across people including guys like Paul Johnson who in some ways is a good historian in other ways he seems their real blind spots

you know he's if you read like his history of the American people which is kind of like his rebuttal to Howard Zinn's ridiculous you know garbage but in some ways

it's a good book but then he like he'll talk about the subject before us today he'll be like oh well after after the world within the states you know the Republicans became progressive it's like that that didn't happen what are you talking what are you talking about you know it um

I think it's one part ignorance one part people just take it out face value and maybe people just don't like outside the culture like don't understand like if you're I'm not like I don't shit anybody but if people were like of immigrants recent immigrant stock

or like people don't really understand, like, dissenter Protestantism from within. They don't really understand what I'm talking about, like, a gut level, and, like, why some of these claims are ridiculous. I think that's part of it. But, um, you know, among other things, too, and this

is key, people like Polk, uh, like Manifest Destiny, it wasn't, it's like, like Mother Jones types, like, oh, Manifers Destiny, you know, this, this is an example of, you know, white, white paternalism and imperialism. Like, Manifest Destiny, it was an

actual policy orientation. It wasn't just some, it wasn't some like abstract, conceptual phenomenon or like some sort of election year slogan. You know, it was literally, like, we are going to,

we're going to murk the Spanish empire and everybody else in this hemisphere. We are going to conquer the entirety of what used to be Spanish America. Like, we're going to become, you know, essentially like the overlords of, of, of, the Americas. That's what

it was. And the Whigs were die hard against that. You know, and this was a real dividing line between them and the Jacksonians. You know, because that kind of thing like perpetual war for

perpetual peace is always bad for business like we talked about before. That's why economic explanations for warfare never make any sense. but it's also if your whole notion is

you know bringing the capital base of America into the looming 20th century like you can't have the public coffers being plundered by a bunch of southern generals who want to live as cardillos by conquering

Guatemala like you can't have that you know um and uh this was a real this is a real clash of of values and ideologies

at a conceptual level you know and plus two I mean if you're any mission of conquest and policy terms I mean that's that's going to lead to a kind of globalism

you know and and there's always going to be some kind of essential market integration there even if it's not in like the neoliberal sense it would we view as you know free trade which isn't really free trade but you know what I mean

you know if if your model for prosperity as was the that of the Whigs and the Republican descendants was you know came in with the American system

it's you know again it's it's based on protective tariffs, high protectionism, federal subsidies for the constructive infrastructure, kind of like the Japanese system is

and the German system was until America destroyed it. Support for national banking, and obviously this was something that you know, like horrified the Jacksonians. You know, they viewed banking as a way of robbing

agrarians of of other personally held capital you know modernization meritocracy law and order

checks on majority rule you know this stuff all this stuff put them totally at odds with the with the Jacksonian Democrats you know

and that this was kind of the political crucible that created California's political culture. I mean, arguably, arguably the Whig Party of the mid-19th century, it literally emerged in opposition to Jackson. And then later, like, the Republican Party was, like, the Committee to elect President,

like Abraham Lincoln for all practical purposes. And if we accept that, their wig forbearers were basically, like, official opposition to Andrew Jackson. You know, um, the smaller, the smaller constellation of parties,

you know, what was called the National Republican Party, the anti-Masonic party, which was a real thing. Disaffected Democratic Republicans, which is what the Democrats used to call themselves. The Federalist Party, which was by then defunct, as well as, you know, again, like a not insubstantial proportional like no nothing types

you know um it um and that's important too like when we think of at least uh

like when we think of like the American old right like we're talking of these are the guys we're talking about like we're not talking about a bunch of like neo confederates you know like we're talking about a bunch of guys who basically were uh were were Hamiltonian nationalists and who were like opposed to, you know,

Jeffersonian sensibilities. Guys like despised, you know, like, Jacksonian populism, you know, and, and, and, and, who were basically, you know, like, white nationalists, despite, like, falling, like, solidly into, like, you know, the union camp, um,

as it existed, uh, you know, during, um, the post-war years. You know, like, the guys, inherited the mandel out of the failed impeachment of Johnson

things, you know, this is really interesting and it, you know, this is, again, this is, um, this is the foundation of, this is the foundation of California's political culture, you know, and I want to, how long have we been going for?

Yeah, I want to get a little bit into, like, the war between the states, like in, and how they impacted California, like, with the time we got left. Let me see where I'm at here. Yeah, on key to this, too,

you know, after the Treaty of Hidalgo, this is a, this is, um, there's people who drop like, like,

conspiracy, almost conspiratorial, uh, narratives about this, but, um, the Treaty of, uh,

Guadalupe Hidalgo was ratified, um, on February 2, 1848. you know, America absorbed California, you know, and the remainder of these, um, this Mexican territory that became Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Utah. But, uh, literally a week before the, the formal annexation of the area, like, massive gold reserves

were discovered in California, you know, um, and this legitimately happened. Like, it wasn't, this wasn't why, uh, like, Trist, uh, proceeded the way he did. Polk didn't know about this. Like nobody knew about this. Okay. This totally altered the state's demographics and finances. So there was like a massive influx of people in California.

You know, not just a bunch of guys from, you know, back east, you know, and like what's now the Midwest and what was, and what was and is the South. You had a bunch of immigrant populations showed there. You had a bunch of Europeans. You know, you had a bunch of Asians.

You've been trickling in, like, especially Chinese. This caused real problems. Okay. And this caused, like, among other things, it caused, like, a massive backlash against non-white immigration. You know, and again, this is one of the founding aspects of California is,

we do not want non-white immigrants here. You know, this is not, New York. This is not Chicago. We do not want this. You know, for, like, just for, just to understand, like, the scale of this. Between, uh, between the, the time of annexation in 848 and 1870, the population of San Francisco and the day of annexation was, was around 500 people. By 1870, it was 150,000. You know, since this was unprecedented. Okay.

You know, and this idea that people were happy about, you know, a bunch of, like, you know, alien elements, like, streaming in there. And not just, like, streaming in there, but to, like, try and extract gold that they viewed as theirs. I mean, this, people were really, really, really, really mad, you know. And this also, California then, obviously, as tensions. You know, during the Buchanan administration, you know, Buchanan was a, I think Buchanan was probably the worst president we ever had other than Biden. I mean, like, Biden is king's shithead, and he will, like, never be dethroned. But, um, but Buchanan was a terrible president. And Buchanan was pretty openly gay, which is interesting, too, because, like, I mean, I think it's a combination of conceptual illiteracy and just, like, nobody wants to claim him because he was a shit executive.

but like I it's it's it's it's amazing how like how none of the like none of these simpletons in academia like they just like pretend that wasn't the case or something you know but I find that kind of interesting but in any event

you know even even early on it became administration it became clear that there was going to be some kind of crisis you know between north and south and um the union had

like eyes westward to California because it's like okay like these these gold this gold we're pulling out of the ground is what's going to like fund our war chest you know um so California took on this outsized

importance you know um and California court history suggests that there was like this massive like volunteers from uh west of the Iraqis to

fight for the union. That's really not true. Like, there were some, but, you know, Democrats from inception, again, Jacksonian Democrats, they dominated California, like, from inception from day one.

The issue was, though, that Southern Democrats were a minority in the state. I mean, they weren't, like, a small minority. They were probably, like, 40%. you know, of the of the Jacksonian

element, but they were the minority. And Northern Democrats, they either like tepidly backed the union or they were like neutral. You know, so this, this divided, this divided the Jacksonian vote. And this basically, this is what basically

like handed California to the, to the Whigs of Slash Reporters. Republicans who then, like, reigned for all time, you know, until literally one day he was declared that this is no longer the political culture. You know, and for clarity, too, like, California didn't quote, go purple. It wasn't this, like, phase where it's like,

okay, things are changing, you know, preferences are changing, you know, when we had demographics and generation, it was literally, like, one day, it's just, this is how it is. You know, um, for context, Burkinax, yeah, although Southern Democrats were a minority,

they were a majority in Tulian County, San Joaquin, Santa Clara, Monterey, and in San Francisco. And San Francisco in the 1850s, they had a succession of mayors who were removed either on trumped-up charges or on substantive charges of corruption. They had huge problems. It was called the vigilance committees, like literal like vigilantism who said like you know we're not we're not going to like abide the mandates of uh or the mayor of law office or the sheriff you know whether it's on uh

you know no matter matter what the issue is you know like it was it was a kind of uh it was the kind of gangsterism people associate with uh with new york city in the era but it wasn't being guided by by some equivalent at Tammany Hall. It was just like guys like, you know, at street level, like basically like making themselves like a power into themselves. It's crazy. But, you know, it was, it was, like, like San Francisco was the outlier.

But again, like the way they were the outlier was because they were a bunch of, they were a bunch of like redneckish Jacksonians. They weren't like an outlier because they're like, oh, we're a bunch of progressives and we don't, you know, we're not keen to this kind of like, these uptight wigs, you know, trying to, like, impose their will on us. So that's, um, I mean, I'm not going to wrong.

Like, San Francisco was a repository of shit. It is full of, like, it is for, like, degenerates and, and, like, sub-humans and shit, like, today. Like, it absolutely is. Like, I'm not saying that's not the case, but it's, like, my point was that, um, you know, if, um,

if people are looking for, like, deep roots and historical record, you're not there. Um, like, what would have been, to San Francisco is a it's like a port town I think I think frankly like the

the like war permanent war mobilization and then like really fucked it up you know because that never ends well for a community that becomes a you know a hub of a military basing

like I'm not I'm not trashing service people but that's just a fact um but that uh but that this dynamic between northern and southern

democrats in California that's what allowed Lincoln to carry the state albeit he carried it by a very slim margin but he was but unlike most unlike most non-slaveholding states

like Lincoln didn't win a robbery he didn't win it on my right majority he won California by plurality which is highly significant but um this uh but following their admission to the union these tensions uh created uh i mean they they they create a real possibility of uh of um parts of california they're trying to achieve a separate statehood or trying to succeed altogether you know um there's there's a number of attempts in the 1850s

none of which came to like open combat at scale but I mean they were they they I mean it was a serious thing and um in 859 the last

there was a past it was called the Pico Act and it was passed by the California State Legislature and it was signed by Governor Weller Jerry B. Weller um it proposed a territory of

Colorado, which would basically include you know, northern California, parts of Southern California, parts of Colorado, and parts of Oregon, as a, it's essentially

like its own its own territory that, you know, did not have formal status as a state, but did, you know, have, like, some rights at law, but that the federal government would have had, like, no power over a way of, like, the commerce, clause or anything else.

You know, Senator Milton Latham was a strong advocate of it. So this had legs, okay? What tanked it was the secession crisis following the election of Lincoln. And when it became clear, like, what was

underway, Lathen and the people, like the real partisans behind it realized, like, well, we really want to get lumped in with you know, the Confederate secessionists, and, you know, before we know, we're going to

find ourselves, like, you know, down range of union guns. But that didn't that didn't stop the San Francisco Jacksonians, though. Months later, at the beginning of 1861, you know, is the actual secession crisis set in vis-a-vis the south.

The San Francisco secessionists they tried to separate Californian Oregon from the Union like they wanted to do this forcibly and carve out what they called the Pacific Republic

and this was one of the reasons, this kind of sensibility had been floated before and that's one of the reasons why Oregon had their like a highly racialized code of laws

because I believe even among the I mean I don't I don't believe I know I mean even among the mainstream political establishment there was sympathy for these kinds of propositions but and they were they were willing to become strange

bedfellows with these like Jacksonian confederate types in San Francisco but they were not going to allow Oregon to become like a slave state that was then, like, flooded with, you know, like blacks in bondage or otherwise, and all they received is, like, these pathologies that, you know, characterized the South. So this is really, this is really interesting, I think, and really important. Like, I hope, we're coming up on the hour, man.

I'll get into the nuts and bolts of, because I'm sure what people want really is kind of like the hard and fast data relating to electoral patterns like in the 20th century to the present. I'll get into that next time. I just, this was, this was an important background, I think. So I hope people wouldn't find it boring. No, I think the history, I think most people just don't know the history of like the West and, They know, oh, gold rush and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting deep into it, you know, people don't know.

You know, while you were talking, I was like remembering that, like, as late as, like, 1979, it was illegal for, like, a gay person to be a, like, a public school teacher in, in California. Yeah, and even in, even in Illinois, like, people here are pretty, despite we see in the news, people here are pretty, like, socially conservative. of. We didn't have any laws like that. But like California did, but supposedly they're like the liberal heartland. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. You know, and it's like

the, yeah, you know, and it what's like my friend Anthony, I mean, you know Anthony, yeah. I mean, like he, Anthony Romano, yeah. What's like he, and he and I become pretty good, pretty good buds. And he was nice to have to take us, me and him out to eat in Portland. You know, and he, I mean, he grew up. in L.A. He's about

your age, the few years of one in me. He grew up in L.A. in the 70s and 80s. You know, and he's like, it was massively segregated. And that's like what I remember, like, a little later, you know, like the early to mid 80s. Like, it was, it was massively segregated.

You know? Even by, and I'm from Chicago, and it's like, this jumped out at me. You know, it's like, it's crazy that what people suggest is sort of the

like in its cultural DNA you know and what it's this idea that oh no you know it's this kind of permanent that you know the Democrats are just the ruling party in California because that's how it is it's not how it is you know like not

not at all but yeah well I'll um I mean I'm already quoting the data for to properly discuss you know the next kind of aspect of this so yeah well I don't know how you want to play it moving forward I mean, I'm, obviously, on Friday, my dad and I were going to observe Thanksgiving on Friday, probably. I mean, I probably definitely.

Like, that's when I was going to cook a turkey, but I got reservations at a really good restaurant instead. But because it may, like, other than that, we can, I'm ready to go any time this week, even if, yeah, okay, yeah. So don't have a figure it out. Yep. Um, yep, um, do plugs and, you know, we'll do, we'll end it. Yeah, for sure, man. Best place to find me is on substack. It's real Thomas 777.7.7.com.

I'm trying to throw more free content up there, you know, um, especially more like video content and stuff. You can always find me on my website, which has a news feed. So whenever I upload anything new, like it pops up there regardless of where it's it. It's just number 7, H-O-M-A-S-777.com. I'm on social media at capital R-E-A-L underscore number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777.com. Like, you go to my website, you'll find my Instagram and, like, other shit I'm into. I'm on Telegram as well. I got, like, a MERSS brand, and we just draw up something like winter hats and stuff.

So if you want like winter gear like we have that now. So if I can be a show, I recommend you buy one of our winter fans. Don't worry and I'll link to it as I always too. Yeah, that's great, man. Yeah, likewise. Yep. Appreciate it. Yeah.