The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1152: Discussing the H1B/Indian Issue w/ C.Jay Engel and Charlemagne

Episode Date: December 29, 2024

79 MinutesSome Strong LanguageC.Jay Engel is a writer and the host of the Chronicles Magazine Podcast. Charlemagne is a content creator on YouTube and Substack and a member of the Old Glory Club.C. Jay and Charlie join Pete to talk about the controversy on Twitter where Trump surrogates Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy began to promote the concept of bringing in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to fill engineering jobs that Americans are "not doing."C.Jay's SubstackC.Jay's Twitter Charlemagne's Find my Frens PagePete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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So thank you for the support. Head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekanino show. Got two of my friends here. C.J. Angle, what's going on, T.J.? Nothing much, man. Had a Merry Christmas.

Oh, yeah, me too. It was great. Good. Charlie, how you doing? Good. I had a great Christmas. I hope you two had a Merry Christmas as well. Yeah, it was awesome. All right, enough of that. We can do that. We can talk about that later. What do we call in this? Geetgate. I like Operation Pooperclip.

Operation Pooperclip. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, let's just jump right into this. anyone who wants to go first and talk about what they've been seeing and what they're thinking well i guess the first question is i don't what was the genesis of this like why did why did all this transpire on christmas and who started it vevac vivac had this uh now legendary tweet complaining about sleepovers and going to the ball uh instead of increasing the GDP i'll link it on the side chat okay yeah i mean i just I saw everybody piling on.

I guess there was that one, who was that one guy? I guess he was like a pseudonym or something. It was a, oh, and then Sacks. Sacks got involved, and I saw them pushing the H-1B stuff with, who's the guy, Syriam or whatever, they tapped to do the AI stuff. And then that's the first time I saw it was with all that. Yeah, let's pull this up here. Let me share it real quick.

is. All right. So I guess I'll read it. This is from this morning. First thing in the morning. 10 o'clock, 10 a.m. Today?

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born and first generation engineers over native, and he quotes natives, Americans, isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit. it a lazy and wrong explanation. A key part of it comes down to the C word, culture. Tough questions demand tough answers, and if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the truth. Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long, at least

since the 90s, unlikely longer. That doesn't start in college. It starts young. Anyone want to start there. Yeah, I mean, I can start. I mean, like, you know, my general thing is that, because I saw Nikki Haley pushing back against this, but I think that there is a major problem in the labor force in America. And I think that the quality stock of Americans is something that we do need to talk about. And I just, I'm very, I'm sick of all of these, like, you know, globalist types,

you know, tech types, whatever you want to call them, you know, post-American, post-national types, basically talking in terms of solving these problems by importing people, by replacing the Native American, you know, Native American in the like classic heritage American sense, replacing them with the third world. That is not a legitimate solution.

And the right wing in America, anybody that cares about this country, needs to put it into it immediately. This is not how you solve problems as a nation. You don't just replace the thing that has the problem. This is the total mentality of Silicon Valley. Whenever there's a hardware that needs to be replaced, you just boot it to the side and create something new.

And I don't think that's something that we can have going forward. And it's certainly not anything that's going to help America in the long term. No, it's literally the same argument when it boils down to it, that we need to import low-skilled labor from South America, because they'll do the jobs American won't. He's just saying, now we need Indians because they'll do the jobs, Americans won't. I mean, he doesn't say Indians here, but we know that's what he means. That's what all these people are thinking about.

That's where these so-called high-skilled immigrants are going to come from. Yeah, what he doesn't talk about here is, well, let's continue here. A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math Olympiad champ or the jocry over the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers okay when we there was a time when when was the last time a jock or the prong queen wasn't you know like showcased and still we did really well and we had white engineers and guys with pocket protectors building jets doing all sorts of things but really what happened? White people,

heritage Americans, have been written out of that system. So this is bullshit right here. It's total fucking bullshit. Yeah. Well, like, the other thing is,

you know, he's, this is such a myopic way of looking at these problems that like our national problems are very politically oriented and the idea that we can ignore all of the side effects, the ramifications, the unintended consequences of just importing

the best quote-unquote engineers, I think is insane. I think it's a path to national suicide, actually. And like the idea that I'm supposed to care about like some, you know, like hyper-focused, you know, downstream effect of our like technical production in the state of like civilizational and national cultural emergency is just something that I think the right wing is just tired of. And this is why he's getting so much pushback, by the way. Like, this is the thing. At the electoral box, you know, a few months ago,

the woke left was basically defeated. And the, you know, the tech pros or the tech right and the heritage American right sort of came together to defeat the woke left. But now that we've done that, we have this real fight on our hands. This is a war between like the post-war consensus, you know, consensus,

And the true right wing. That's what's happening here. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to pull apart at the thread that's basically kept this mythos going since the 1960s. This is all coming to fruition. And the reason why this is such a controversy is because the right wing is sick of thinking within the framework of the post-war consensus. Yeah, exactly. And when these people drop these points about needing these engineers or whatever, it's always engineers to do labor. why is this even so necessary?

You know, Musk said that we need 160,000 more on top of the 160,000 number someone else had named or something to do these jobs. What jobs? Can you name the jobs? What are the essential engineering jobs that aren't being done? The 160,000 jobs that apparently really need to be done, and that's why we need all these immigrants.

More garbage websites? Like, what are these people doing, are going to do that isn't being done right now? That's so essential. The essential problem, is the fact that these people were brought in in the first place. The solution being proposed by

Ramoswami at all to solve the alleged labor shortage in engineering, which doesn't even exist, is what caused the problem in the first place, as you're out competing the native population with all these foreigners. And that's, of course, why

that's why that the country is underperforming now is because the natives are actually being competed out. And they would do even better at the job. So you're actually worsening your workforce by demoralizing the native population. I think we're waiting for Starlink to catch up here. Be there, Charlie? Engineering shortage.

Called it. All right, we'll come back to Charlie. Damn it, yeah. Sorry, my internet connection fail for a second. So, yeah. I mean, I think that that's, I mean, that's the gist of my thoughts on that initial thing. But by the way, and I don't know if you want to step. back here a little bit, but all this didn't come about this morning. This actually broke Christmas

Day with David Sacks, quote tweeting, I don't even know how to pronounce his name, Sriram, you know, some guy from India, basically, who's advising the Trump administration on AI policy. That's kind of where all this happened. It kind of blew up in David Sacks face by this thing going viral. And then today, Vivek jumped in only 24 hours after the case. So I, I, I, I, I, I saw all this break on Christmas Day. Well, even before that, wasn't it a couple days before that the, the quote-unquote AI cz czar was announced. And yeah, yeah, I think that was before Christmas Day, yeah. Yeah.

So this. Well, here, here's the obvious thing, okay? Let's take it at face value. They need 160,000 engineers, okay? And they need them now. and they understand, okay, you know, we may need to get more people educated, more Americans educated, more heritage Americans educated. Why do they have to come here? Everything can be, everything's done remote.

I mean, like, what is it? One percent of the government, like, reports to work, like, on a regular basis now, everybody's working remote. Why can't they work remote? Exactly. Exactly. That's the point that I was going to make is like, like we live in 2024. Why in the world do they have to move to the other side of the planet in order to do their work? If Elon feels like he needs to be there to oversee them or Vivek needs to be there to oversee them, move the Silicon Valley companies. Like they don't need, you know, or remove the oversight, like move the managers.

You don't need to import hundreds of thousands of workers to California. into Texas in order to do the things that they say they're going to do. It's not like they're building hardware. It's not like they're physically building rockets. These are engineers. They can work from wherever. And if you need oversight, send the oversight over to India. Or since they're so brilliant at what they're doing, you could probably just get Indian engineers or Indian managers too. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive by design. They move you even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. for Mentor, Leon, and Terramar.

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Make an argument, okay? Or how about some horse trading? Look, we're going to deport 20 million people who are here illegally if you give us this 160,000. I mean, I don't want that. They all, the 160,000 need to stay where they are, the 20 million need to go, but at least that's a fucking conversation. Instead of just being like, oh, no, this is the way it has to be. We are not going to survive unless we get these people into the United States. They're not even talking about that. So what do you have? Another 160,000 people. More, you know, more rents, the price of rent is going up. The price of everything is going up. What? I mean, just, that's, that's like I said at the beginning. It's always, there's no reasoning done here. It's always the same point, whether you're

Hillary Clinton or Vivek Ramoswamy. It's that we need these jobs done. So we have to import hundreds of thousands of foreigners to do with them. There's no explanation of what the jobs are. There's no explanation of what's going to happen if those jobs aren't done. It's just throughout some big number, this number of jobs needs to be done. The only way to do them is to import people, so we're just going to do it. There's no discussion. There's no horse trading.

This is just what has to happen because reasons we have to have, quote unquote, engineers build websites or whatever. The term engineer has gotten horribly diluted as well. Often they just mean programmers. And if you mean programmers, absolutely, there's no reason to move them around the world. Any major corporation has programmers in many different countries. I mean, literally my neighbor manages people in countries almost 12 hours removed from him. Like, we do not, we no longer need to bring these people here if, in fact, they are necessary.

But that's what should be done too, is explain why they are necessary. Can Vivek Ramoswamy name a single? job of the 100,000 that's so essential that we need someone for in to fill it. What is the job, did that Gronoswamy? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what is the, what is the job? Yeah, what is the job is a good question, but also like, this is the thing that the, you know, the consensus

liberals don't get. Why do we have to frame our national problems in terms of job in, in terms of these, like, technocratic, technological innovation? like is that really the end-all be-all of politics and the good of what you know what's good for a people like can we even say that there is something about like this it's hard to even conceive of a software that's so important that it's more of a priority than the existential questions of what it means for people to be a people right whatever the job is it doesn't even matter ultimately because we'll make do with or without it If we need the job, we will train our people to do it. And if the job is not actually essential, then it doesn't matter. These people talk about America, and they treat America as just like... I saw Devin Stack tweeted something about how these people think everyone on the planet is an American who just hasn't been hired yet.

They talk about America winning, protecting America. Well, America is the people. It's not the economy. When they say America, they're talking about the economy of America. When we say America, we're talking about Americans, the native people, to this land who cross the sea, not the numbers in the economy. That's not America. And that's the first war consensus, is that it's just statistics and numbers about what your GDP is. And we are way past that, and these larping elites like Musk who are trying to be a man of the people still fundamentally doesn't grasp this.

that the election of Trump was about Americans taking back control of their country. It wasn't about this nonsense about high IQ immigration. It wasn't about the economy. That's the one thing that heavily needs to be pushed back on is they're always trying to

frame Trump's victories around the economy. People are not voting for Trump because of the economy. They're voting for Trump because they've lost control of their country. That is why he won the election. We do not care. about lined up we care about the people no i totally i totally agree with that yeah yeah no i i totally

agree with that and also like let me let me just say too i'm glad we're having this fight because there are a lot of people and i and i get the people that say don't vote for trump because it's just part of the system but this is a debate that we could not have had under harris like we were accused by the left of just doing whatever the billionaire peter teal and elon musk wanted but actually it shows this entire situation shows that we care about who we are as a people much more so than we care about the wills of Elon Musk and we are willing to turn on them on a dime if it when it comes to who we are and our identity absolutely some people i've noticed are too attached to musk and feel like they have to defend musk and trump at all times to the extent that he's connected

to this musk and trump and all these people are a means to an end they are useful to our cause as vanguardists sometimes. They have been thus far, but when they step out of line and go directly against us, they have to be disciplined. And it has to be shown that, no, we're not just going to support you unequivocally just because you were the most friendly toward us in the election. That's not how this works. I'm not going to sit here and defend everything Musk does

and try and jump through hoops. Regardless of whether or not it's some sort of 4D chess or whatever, it doesn't matter. The message has to be consistent. What is that line from that movie, The Watchman, never compromise even in the face of Armageddon. That is the idea. There's no compromise to be made on this. This is the essential question of everything that we're working towards is protecting the native population of this land. So there's simply, no matter how friendly these guys are, and you can discipline allies in a gentle way and not in a way that necessarily breaks the alliance but it has to be done there's no room for any sort of compromise on this position I think the term post-war

consensus is going to come up a lot in this discussion I want to read these next three paragraphs because I think they all go together and I want to make a comment on it he continues this is Vivek a culture venerates Corey from Boy Meets World or Zach and Slater over Screech and say by the Bell or Stefan or over Steve Urkel in Family Matters will not produce the best engineers. Fact. And this is in parenthesis. I know multiple sets of immigrant parents in the 90s who actively limited how much their kids could watch those TV shows precisely because they promoted mediocrity. And their kids went on to become wildly successful STEM students. More movies.

like whiplash, fewer runs of friends, more math tutoring, fewer sleepovers, more weekend science competitions, fewer Saturday morning cartoons, more books, less TV, more creating, less chilling, more extracurriculars, less hanging out at the mall. Okay, this is what the post-war consensus sold us. It sold us that we were going to be deradicalized, that we were going to be weakened, that the problem is that there's too much of the Faustian spirit in, I'm going to say it, white America, and that they need to be pacified. And the way that they were going to do this was through entertainment, through multiple social engineering schemes of getting people to become weaker.

And when he says this in the parentheses, where he's bragging about immigrant parents that came here, realize what he's saying when he mentions immigrant parents who actively limited this so that their kids could become more powerful than Americans. They can become more important than Americans. That's exactly what he's saying here. He is saying the economy and everything has to do with the economy is so important. That I have no, look at these, look at what these immigrant parents did. We should be looking to them. They're the new leaders of the United States. That's exactly what he's saying here.

No, this is, this is a good conversation to have because the argument has never been like this neoconservative, like faked optimism. Like, I forget her name, but the, the super ugly lady that's married to or dating Donald Trump Jr. What was her name? Kimberly Bill Foyle. Yeah. So when she stood up, she's like, the best is yet to come and all that.

This is the type of like neocon optimism that's, it's retarded. You know, in my opinion, we actually do need to face the fact that we have been a degenerating as a people since the end of the World War II. Like the idea that, you know, America won World War II, it was, you know, there's a lot of different things to say about that.

But one of the things you can say at the surface level, it was a it was a peric victory we have lost our soul we have lost our physical prowess we have lost our nobility as a people like we we lived in a state of glory as americans and we have completely lost all those things and those are things worth talking about and some of the mechanisms that caused our moral and our cultural collapse are the things that vevec is talking about here nevertheless none of those things justify replacing the american people what they call for is a new dynamism a new of investing in the American people, investing in heritage America as historically constituted. That's what we need right now.

In fact, the thing that would help America feel pride about itself right now is a massive endeavor of remigration. That's the thing that will help repudiate the things that Vavex complaining about here. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs,

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That actually exacerbates the entire problem of demoralization and driving our civilization further into a state of a complete inability to have any respect for itself. So the proposed solution is literally the problem. And a lot of the reason we're in the generated state we're in is because of all of this immigration in the first place. So this isn't the solution.

This is literally the problem. And he's simply rephrasing the problem as a solution to try and sell it to people who want to keep their 401K is maxed out, instead of facing the facts that, yeah, actually things aren't going to get better from here in the short term.

It's not going to be the best it ever was under Trump. We have serious problems in this country, and unless we actually face the facts that acknowledge them, we're never going to solve them. What he's proposing isn't the solution, it's the nail and the coffin to America. It will absolutely destroy us. We've already brought in

millions of people in the quote, low status job positions. Now he's talking about entirely replacing the middle class. This is classic high-low versus middle. Bringing in these STEM engineers directly competes with the middle class, which is the essential base of Donald Trump. Like Donald Trump's base is not some mythical working class or whatever. It's the middle class.

It's the people who should be leading really great lives right now and aren't, because even though on paper, you know, they're making a lot of money and maybe I've bought a big house, they're unable to engage with the culture and the civilization the way their parents were because it's been completely hollowed out. And that's why we're so mad. I'm one of these people, right? I, by all rights, I should have a really nice upper middle class life right now, and I don't because the country's been ruined in, you know,

and ruined over the course, you know, since World War II, but especially after the end, of the Cold War, like the decline in standards, living standards, generally, not just economically, but culturally everything, has dropped like a rock. And there's no, there's nothing you can do as an individual now to bring it back. There's no amount of money you can make to bring that back. It's a civilizational problem. And, you know, if we do what Rebecca is proposing, we we finish off the civilization. It's done. I'll just ask, mute out if you're not talking. All right, let me move on here because this only gets worse.

Most normal American parents look skeptically at those kind of parents. More normal American kids view those kind of kids with scorn. If you grow up aspiring to normalcy, normalcy is what you will achieve. Now close your eyes and visualize which families you knew in the 90s or even now who raise our kids according to one model versus the other. Be brutally honest. Normalcy doesn't cut it in a hyper-competitive global market for technical talent. And if we pretend like it does, we'll have our asses handed to us by China. There it is.

pure, I mean, when you have, when, when you are pushing for a free market, whenever, whenever you hear anybody talking about a free market and, oh, we need to be able to trade, remember, the first and most important product in a market is labor. And he is absolutely talking about having a hyper-competitive global market for quote-unquote technical talent. And he says, if I can't find it here, which through DEI, things like that, you're not, they've been shut out. We're going to have to go, we're going to have to go anywhere or else China is going to hand our ass to us, which is, I mean, the irony of him bringing that up. So how many Indian technical laborers has China imported?

right right like it just doesn't make any sense if if china can can do it without do whatever it is like make really good websites I guess is the issue if China can do it then why can't we do it because Vivek understands

you know he's talked about DEI there's a comprehension that talent has been suppressed within the population so if we get rid of that then the problem should go away, right? Why do we need all of these Indian laborers? I mean, how many high-tech

extremely competent engineers does China actually have? Can we get some numbers on this? You know, no, we can't because, you know, he just, all he wants is the cheapest possible labor for people who work 25 hours a day. They're not actually interested in, you know,

making some great technological advancement or whatever. It's just about pumping their stocks. Yeah, no, I agree with that too. Like, I mean, there's also this idea that like we're not going to have any like national progress or we're not going to do well as a people we're not going to um you know you know be a people if we if we don't like compete like the whole thing is just some like big sports competition i mean like that's that's the thing that we're talking about is is america basically a sports team and if we want to win we basically have to

stack the team we have to create a dream team and so we have to go all around the world looking for people we might even have to import you know thousands of people in from China and then we could beat you know the economic engine known as china and it's like this this extension of a post-war consensus thinking and the the only way it can go from here is is in a downward spiral I mean these are the things that cause the disappearance and the vanishing of peoples like these are very this is not a joke like the idea that we can we can just operate our country like it's a massive corporation that needs to compete with another massive corporation is insane and it's suicidal and i think one of the

things about like if a fact that he doesn't truly understand is the meaning of the trump phenomenon was actually like i mean i know charlemagne already said this but it's not about um you know economic it's not it's not about like inflation it's not about the you know the price of eggs it's not even about the price of home like a lot of us would say like we're willing to suffer even more stinuous economic situations, we just want our country back. And that's the thing that Vivek, just by his very pedigree, can't actually digest, he can't actually absorb that, because there is no long-term meaning of this place going back in time compared to what heritage Americans think about their country. Well, and think about this. We know, I'm sure

each one of us on this, on this skull knows that if they get rid of, if they deport 20 to 30 million, most likely if you own a home or any property, the value of it's going down. I know my house will. I don't know how anybody else. I mean, that will happen because there will be a lack of a demand. Prices will go. I'm willing to sacrifice for that. What also?

It also shouldn't even be a sacrifice, right? like in my something only has a price value I mean this is kind of the classic this is like from Austrian economics is like the value of something is what it actually sells for right so like my property has like a theoretical value but I'm never selling it so what do I care if the quote unquote value goes down and this is a this is a whole other problem that we don't need to get into but the idea it relates to the topic of the sort of derazination because how

a home to a lot of people after the post-war consensus is literally just like another stock investment it's not a home it's an investment your home shouldn't be primarily like but the main thing you shouldn't think about your home is like how much value it has it's about it's about it being a home for a family and the people your people right like so this is like a whole but that that's the kind of argument to this position is like well a home is not a like stock market investment. Like obviously people will sell their houses and that's fine and we don't want prices to drop.

But if the price of your home goes down, like what's the issue? You're living in it now. So shouldn't it be fine? You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive by design. They move you. Even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Teramar.

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And now this is over the Hamsher. It's leargoal gul gulggy and not great gree-in'an doon and the Gaela to Gaean Tamilfada Gaila Deiard. In Ergird, we're talking in Woonagh with Fuenifunner. There's Ouschrard of Yenavaghan, on as to give you to aughte Gnachau and Pubble tariff in Tashdie. There's a cooctewaghan. Follam, less more, in Ergird Pongahy.

My point in bringing it up was just that, is that you're, if you're looking at your home, as something, oh, this is just an investment. And when the market goes up, I'll get rid of it and I'll go somewhere else. It's not what I plan to do. I plan, they're going to pull my body out of this place. They're going to pull my dead body out of this place. I mean, that it's, that's not something that should be taken into consideration if you consider

yourself a part of the nation, of the people. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And, like, I have huge problem. with what is considered normalcy in American culture. And I think a lot of it has been the product of, I mean, this is Paul Gottfried's whole thing, that normalcy was actually just a product of the managerial state.

I mean, if you read that book by Saunders, America's Cultural Cold War or whatever, how most of this, most of the like slop entertainment that we have is basically just, you know, the product of intelligence agencies and all that. So a lot of what's considered normal is just the product of, managerialism and like deep state you know social engineering so i have a problem too with normalcy however i don't think that the solution to the problems of normalcy is to engage and to completely like you know lay prostrate in you know in front of the entire globalist mindset that basically runs uh you know the world from 1970 to 1990 like that's not that's not a legitimate

solution i mean in fact in fact i think a lot of that has been the cause of america degenrecy. Like, I look, I look at people in middle, middle America, you know, fly over America, forgotten America, the very people that most wanted Trump at the very beginning, that wanted Trump because he was a proxy of all of their discontent. All of their jobs had been sucked to other countries, you know, all of the things that made them who they are, that made the towns who they were, all of those things are long gone now. So the solution to our own frustrations is not the very thing that came through and blew apart the core of the American people after World War II. Well, I have three, I'm going to read the first sentence from his next paragraph, and I have

three points on it. He says, this can be our Sputnik moment. One, why didn't he say Apollo moment? Two, did Russia import a bunch of people from all over the world for the Sputnik program? and three, they did this under communism. This is actually really great because there's this sort of, I don't know, commie myth that like the Soviets beat us in every category to space, except like getting to the moon or whatever. And it's like, yeah, they did, but they also produced total crap that often failed,

and a couple of their astronauts died to, like they basically sacrificed quality just to have just to do it first. So it's like, yeah, if you import, like, trust me on this, if you import a bunch of Indian programmers, like, yeah, you might get your product to market the first, but it's going to be shit. So what do you want? Do you want a shit product or you want a good product that comes a bit later? Like, the United States is the nation with the lasting legacy in space exploration, not the Soviet Union. And that's because we actually produced high-quality missions, and the Soviets didn't. and it's the same in software engineering.

When you hire these H-1Bs from the subcontinent, yeah, they'll make stuff and they'll make it quicker because you have 100 times more employees than some startup, but it's not going to be good. It's going to be garbage. Let me keep going here. He says, this can be our Sputnik moment. We've awakened from slumber before and we can do it again.

Trump's election hopefully marks the beginning of a new golden era in America, but only if our culture, wakes up our our culture, a culture that once again prioritizes achievement over normalcy, excellence over mediocrity, nerdiness over conformity, hard work over laziness. Is that what our culture? Is that what the American, the heritage American culture is all about? I think those are important, not the nerdiness thing. I mean, that's, that's just, that's, that's, that's silly. Like, like a lot of, a lot of the American greatness was, you know, if I could say it like this, you know, blood and iron. Like a lot of American greatness was, was, was, was, was, was,

jockish. It was not nerdiness, right? Like, the wise, the wise ruling elite needs to be full of sages, people with good decision-making skills and, and political judgment, not a bunch of technocrats. So I definitely want to push back on that. However, yes, we do need a sense of dynamism and vitality in this country. I totally agree with that, but none of that has to do with engine in fact the engineers the engineers that are coming in none of them have this um sense of of american how why would they have a sense of american greatness like one of the things that america needs right now is to reestablish like you know a lot of them like like i think about someone like teddy roosevelt okay so teddy roosevelt i think was in many ways like disastrous

and his progressivism but he had this mentality of like american america i sort of had a mandate in the world. And we were the achievement of a thousand years of Western, like human development. That's what Americans need. They need to see themselves as participating in a great historical chain of people, chain of events, chain of nations. Like that's what the American people need, that sense of that strenuous life to overcome the odds with sort of a masculine fortitude. Not a bunch of nerdy engineers who don't care about this country, who don't care about Andrew Jackson and George Washington and Paul Bunyan, they have no interest in the vitalist recovery and renewal of American greatness. So, none of the things that he's talking about in terms

of what America needs to do as a culture to wake up has absolutely anything to do with anyone we could possibly import from the third world. And also going with this, you know, space example mission, space example again, it's like Neil Armstrong wasn't a nerd. You know, he was more of the jock archetype. And this, you know, this just reveals like he's just a butthurt nerd who got bullied in high school. I mean, I know for my part in like AP classes and stuff when I was back in high school is that like 50% of the students in there were jocks and cheerleaders. Like those people actually tend to perform really well in life. And this stupid Reddit nerd worship is a lot of the reason we're in the situation we're in now because these people are social outcasts and

lack self-respect. Um, there's also this, there's this good tweet from a nightmare vision that kind of ties into this where he said, uh, there's this convergence of boomer conservative work worship and leftist anti-white parole resentment where underachieving whites are so offensive that they should all be replaced, but for some reason it never matters that the people, people replacing them from countries where everyone is an illiterate cannibal rapist who lives in open sewage, which is just way worse than being lazy. Um, but yeah, it's like, there's this weird, um, there's this weird worship of just working really hard. And if you're, if you don't work really hard or whatever, you're like a bad person and you're just lazy and you deserve to lose. It's like, why do we have to worship like endless toil? It doesn't make any sense. Um, it's like, yeah, we're going to toil, but we, it's not like, that's like the highest achievement of, of life is just to be this like freaking insectoid bug man who just, who does nothing but labor as hard as he possibly can, 24 hours a day.

And that's like, that's good if you do that. That's your moral value is like how much labor output you have. That's the way these people think. Yeah, totally. I mean, that's a product of the technocratic mind, right? I mean, that's what a people are. They are basically just tools. They're cogs in the machine.

They have to work as hard as they can because that's what helps us beat China. Yeah, all you have to do is look at, look at some of the people who agree, like, Eric Weinstein, you know, just retweeting this tweet and saying, I love this. Of course he does. I mean, it's all the nerds who love this. And what is the job of a nerd? It's to solve a problem. And it doesn't matter how the problem is solved. So if you need to bring in infinity jeets to solve the problem, that's the way the problem gets solved. There's no consideration for the fact that there are people here who can do the job. They've just been shut out of the job.

There's also this ties into this sort of reveries to neoconservism earlier. There's like this red meat thrown in of China. And this is another thing that like people try to make the Trump election about is China. Like we have to outcompete China. There are a great civilizational enemy and we have to do anything possible to have bigger economy. We need more economies than China has. But people don't care about this.

And like, okay, well, let's just double down on that. If China is such a big problem, let's just blow them up. We can do that. Let's just do that. Why, why not, Mr. Ramoswam? We can't just, like, a nuke them. If that's our big enemy, let's just wipe them out. And then look at that. We don't have to import all the

engineers because, well, now we have all the engineers on the planet. Like, seriously, if you just follow their own retard neocom logic to its logical conclusion. It's like, well, that's where you go, right? Like, why go this weird, like, roundabout way when we can just, like, go to war with them right now and wipe out their society? If China's such a big problem, right? He's the one who said it. Mm-hmm. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28th to 30th,

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Full of Nis small to Ergrid Pongahy. And Trump the other day, did you hear this one from Trump? He talked about a G2. it would be the United States and China, and that's it. I didn't know that. Yeah.

One thing I do love about Trump is, he's willing to talk to anybody. He's willing to negotiate. You know, this isn't negotiation. His, you know, his cutout here is not negotiating. He's saying it's either going to be this way or China is going to own our lunch. Well, no. there's not only two choices here. Then he finishes out by saying,

that's the work we have cut out for us, rather than wallowing in victimhood and just wishing or legislating alternative hiring practices into existence. I'm confident we can do it. And then he puts two American flags there. Yeah, I'm confident that China's engineers are so great that they accidentally create new viruses

and release them on the planet. like that's how awesome china is as they create global plagues because their scientists are just so good and so we better have better scientists than they do it doesn't make any sense like what is china doing that we need to out-compete so badly with like their rockets fail uh like i can't think of anything china is known for other than making hordes of cheap crap uh that are worse than all of the american and european counterparts like what exactly they can't ever explain none of this has explained what is it that China is doing or will do that's going to defeat us

if we don't just have more because we're never going to have more manpower than China has. That's not the point. The way we beat China is with superior quality and creativity and we do that well with our own people.

We don't. It's foreigners who subverted that in the first place. It's so fucking retarded. No, I totally agree with that. I think that the so-called threat of China is just, it's so overblown. There's no, there's no threat to America for China. The only threat, the only threat that China poses is to technocrats that want to dominate, you know, the world of innovation.

And it's very self-conceded. And, you know, America itself can do very well economically. In fact, like, the whole immigration thing is a massive asset suck on the American people. Like, the whole thing is just a giant. at Leach. And there's actually no economic, you know, productivity in net because, due to immigration itself. So the whole Chinese thing is a complete, it's basically a neo-con adjacent argument. And it has no place on a true American right. Yeah. And then, you know, you look at some of the comments here. I mean,

freaking cat turd of all people goes, do I really need to start listing American inventors and what the world wouldn't have, wouldn't have without us. Sernovich talking about the Woodstock generation, managed to build out aerospace, the one before went to the moon. And Oren, I mean, of course, Oren comes in and goes, turns out the quote unquote waste that Doge

wants it to cut from America was Americans. Oren's a master. Yeah, I mean, this is not a, it goes back to looking at America and looking at the nation, which is the people, as economic units. And considering this to be an economic zone. Now, when I heard certain tech guys who were supporting Trump say, you know, we don't want China to win the AI wars. You know, we don't want China to become, you know, to go pass us on AI. I was like, yeah, okay, that sounds great. Yeah, let's do that. Well, does that mean? Does that

mean that we have to import the friggin, import the subcontinants, I mean, a full continent to do that, every engineer you have? I mean, what evidence is there that these engineers are any good anyway? Ask people in Canada what they think about the Indians that were imported to work in their medical system. It turns out that a lot of them weren't. every every computer programmer I've worked with who's a Pajit they're bad

I've worked with I've had them come in you know people the way Jets sometimes enter like employment is they're sort of hired as a group and they have a Brahmin leader and it actually really messes up the corporate structure because the way

the way American companies work is people are highly incentivized based on their individual contributions and incentivized to take responsibility and accountability for their actions. And it's literally the opposite with subcontinentals is they're never creative. They only do exactly what they're tasked with doing in the most literal interpretation possible so that they're never actually responsible for any decisions. They're just doing what they're being told.

And you also can't interface with the lower parts of the cast. So like an entire team will be brought in. and normally you would go like talk to another programmer who is you know at your level in the hierarchy directly about some problem but their brahman will intercept you and prevent you from actually talking to your co-workers to solve problems like they become they're literally the middle manager between their army of guys and those guys can never be gotten rid of individually because they come as this package unit behind this brahman like this is how it works it completely ruins the corporate hierarchy it destroys morrison it destroys morrison and they don't produce good results anyway. I can tell other stories about in college. When I was in college for computer science, there were multiple groups of JETs in the computer science program, and they would openly cheat on their exams.

And eventually this was brought to the professor, who was aware of it. And at some point he just announced that, you know, it has been brought to my attention that, you know, cheating is happening on the exams, basically drop the class and you won't be reported. And then the jeet stopped showing up the next day.

It's like all of the interactions I've ever had with these people throughout my college experience and career is entirely negative. I would never, ever, ever want to associate these people on a professional level. It's God-awful. And you really cannot comprehend how bad it is and how demoralizing it is until you've been forced to work with these people by your bosses. So, CJ shared this tweet, this retweet.

It's like Eugipius retweeted Vivek and said, fuck you. In all my years as a professor in America, I saw nothing but ruthlessly determined, insanely dedicated white young men facing unreasonable scrutiny and racial harassment from diversity gatekeepers and similar clowns. This is what we were saying before. Yeah, this is the thing. Like, there's this myth in America that Americans are just, for no reason at all, lethargic,

and they can't do the things that Vivek expects of them. It's like we have been on the receiving end of an entire administrative apparatus aimed at pushing down heritage Americans and lifting up, you know, whomever else wants to make, you know, a claim. of oppression, right? That's what that's with the entire Civil Rights Act basically built this infrastructure around that specific thing. And it ended up in the late 1990s and early 2000s being this institutionalized. And look, this isn't just us like airing like random grievances. This is very well documented by people like Jeremy Carl in his book on anti-racism or whatever. This is

very factual. It's very obvious and it's very widespread. This is what the American generations coming after the 1960s have basically been dealing with. And so you have this guy, this billionaire guy who has no, like, rooted connection to the American way of life coming in and basically just saying, look, you guys aren't up to snuff. We're going to need to do this sort of compete with China. There's absolutely no, there's no connection between, you know, Vivek's agenda. and he's not even, you know, thinking in terms of what has actually happened in the last half century. There's a comment under Eugipius that I think is worth it. Noticing Incorporated says, great name, says, be me, tech lead of all-male team,

vacancy appears, register it with AR, receive nine or ten candidate CVs, that's curriculum vets, it's basically the British version, what they can, call a resume in Britain. All women required to pick four for interview. None were qualified. Company hired two anyway. One was a 50-year-old woman who'd never worked in the industry. Yeah, I mean, if you want to get into programming, you basically have to pretend to be gay, like either literally or, you know, in a more Reddit sense, it's unbelievable. This is why I tell people not to go into computer programming anymore because it's basically impossible to get a job. no matter how good you are if you're a white man and I've even been in this position to

kind of that Eugipius is describing like when I when I tutored people professionally like I was made to drag people through the department's programs who had no business being there one of the guys I had to tutor was literally a retarded black guy like he was literally mentally mentally retarded. And it was actually cruel for him to even be in the program. But there were people like me who were paid to drag these

people through the programs, including women, to meet diversity quotas, I guess, because there's no reason they should have been there in the first place. And this time is wasted on these people instead of being spent on the people who are actually

going to, you know, make it through the citizens, and be competent people. You know, so there's thousands of, hundreds of thousands of people getting degrees who have no business getting those degrees because they're just sort of shuffled through the program so that they can be a statistic for the university. Yeah, totally. I actually have a friend who was an engineer at a big corporation in California.

Well, he actually doesn't work there anymore, so I can say it was Apple. But he basically was on this, you know, core part of a specific engineering project. And he recognized very quickly that there were certain, you know, members of his team that he simply, as a manager, was not allowed to criticize. He would get, you know, reprimanded for criticizing these people because they were diversity hires. And that was literally the point. And a lot of it, like, some of them were Indian. You know, others were of other races. But the point is that, like, you know, he was a, you know, a white guy.

And he was the only race that there was no, there was no culture of criticism. criticism around, you know, criticizing him, complaining about him, you know, reporting him to the HR lady. But all the other races, of course, were uplifted. Like, that's, that's literally the point of, of, like, this, like, civil rights administration culture that was created in the post-1960s. And a lot of this, like, you could say that some of this was purposeful. But, like, you know, who's the guy that wrote, you know, the book after the, you know, America since the 60s? It's a great book on the post-war, you know, economic administrative state. But anyways, like, he just points out the fact that a lot of this was just built into the

cake. This entire culture of anti-white racism was sort of this natural and organic development. And yes, we sit here in 2024 on the long end of a very bad trajectory that is uniquely harmed heritage Americans, you know, basically white America. That's literally been the consequence of this generation. and everybody sees it. And the reason why this is a big fight is we're only now the first generation in many, many decades that's willing as a group to come together and actually say

the emperor has no clothes. This is all a farce. The entire thing is meant to liquidate white America and we're sick of it. And Vivek, I think in Elon are probably very surprised by the hostility that they're facing. And I think, I don't know if you said it or someone else said it, that Elon's already starting to back off of the little. little bit and backpedal, which is good. Like, we need to hold their feet to the fire because

this is completely unacceptable, and this is not the mandate that was given to the Trump administration. Yeah, and right before he backpedaled, Musk had a tweet about, you know, this is like the biggest Dunning Kruger effect moment ever on Twitter, and it's not. It's like the problem is all these people just want data and big statistics, but the problem is all the data on how much white men had been suppressed, especially in engineering, it doesn't exist because the data has been made basically illegal to collect. So it's not there. It's all just heuristics. It's all stories like I've told on Twitter. But everyone who actually works among this problem knows the real score here. And this just goes to show that people like Vivek and Musk don't actually have any clue about how

engineering teams actually operate. They're either being dishonest or they're being fed bad data by people they trust who are just feeding them bullshit information because everyone who works in engineering knows what is happening and how it works. There's no data on it, but that's just too bad, nerds. Like, you're not going to get data. You're just going to get people telling you what's going on like I am and other people are. Yeah, this is actually a really good point too, like the idea that they could be lied to. Like, there's nothing fancy or magical about engineering. I mean, a lot of it's actually just very logical.

And so any competent, you know, American, like, you know, Heritage American type that specializes in this field could basically do this work. And probably within a couple of years, train an entire team of people if a corporation wanted to, you know, have some sort of initiative where, you know, instead of going to college, you could basically the corporation would train you. You could get, you know, hundreds, thousands of American engineers that could do a very good job because a lot of it's just, logical. Like there's nothing special or unique about it. You don't need like an Indian mind to figure this stuff out. Like this is something that corporations, if they cared, could do. But instead, you know, what's the answer? Replaces them. Well, I thought we should finish on this. And it's something that I know Charlie brought up, you may have already brought it up, CJ. There are going to be people who say that, you know, people who are on our

side, quote unquote, that this is what we voted for. You guys pushed to vote for Trump. And this is your fault. You knew this was going to happen. We told you this was going to happen. And you didn't listen to us and you pushed for Trump. So this is all your fault. And, you know, why are you guys even talking about this? This is what you voted for. I'm glad you brought this up because I wanted to bring this up. All of us know Trump and Musk are not like our guys or something. We're not going to go to

wall and defend them. They can serve our interests or they cannot. During the camp, it was obvious which candidate was more in our interests during the election season. It was also obvious that everyone, everyone who knows anything about

the tech bros, as they're called, knows that Musk's support of Trump and Ramoswami being in there as well. We all knew that there was a certain ethnic interest behind Musk, right? We all knew that there would necessarily the Hindu interests who were going to look for a slice of the cake after Trump won the election. So it's not like this is unexpected.

What's surprising is that on Christmas, they're deciding to show their hand on this really early. Maybe it's low impulse control, I don't know. But we all knew that this was going to happen. no one was under the illusion that, you know, Musk was tweeting about this stuff all the time. It's not like this is brand new. It's just, it's coming to a head in this particular moment because specifically of what Ramoswami said. But the idea that we were like tricked or we were like stupid for voting for Trump because, oh look, you got diluted.

It's like, no, we all knew that this was part of the people backing him, that there was this ethnic interest behind the, the, Musk faction or the Peter Thiel faction maybe, hard to disambiguate those. But because of the way that feels works, there's going to be a bunch of Indians there and they want their slice of the pie. Now is what we have to do is tell them, no, you don't get a slice of the pie just because this one, you know, this one guy in tech Musk, like, allied with Trump therefore, like you can just replace white people with Indians. Like, no, it doesn't work that way. Sorry. We knew this was going to happen, and we knew we'd have to respond to it, and it happens that it's sooner rather than later,

which is actually better. I'm perfectly happy that these guys are sharing their hand now rather than later. So, yeah, I think that whole take, like, how, like, we got tricked or something is just delusional, because we didn't. It's just, we didn't talk about this constantly because it would be counterproductive to talk about this when you're trying to, when you want Trump to win the election,

you don't sit there and counter-signal him, like, a fucking moron, when whoever, it's not Joe Biden or Kamala Harris, whoever was running against Trump, we knew we did not want that force in power, for sure. At least, like CJ said earlier, at least with the administration that's coming in, it's opened up the space for this discussion to even happen. This would be impossible in the counterfactual system where Trump did not win. And you also notice this is happening entirely among Trump's surrogates, for now and not with Trump himself, which is good. We need to defeat this now here before it becomes policy.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. I'm also glad that you brought it up. The thing is, everybody recognizes that Donald Trump is actually, with the possible exception of Obama, the most socially progressive president in American history. Like, he's a New York real estate mogul. He's a cosmopolitan. He has like zero impulse that could be considered traditionally.

right wing, right? That's not the point of Trump, right? The point of Trump, nobody thinks that he's like, you know, like a Franco or something like that. The whole point of Trump is to allow us access. Access is very important. What it does is it allows us to get a voice in to key aspects of the policy initiatives. Like, when you have people like Tom Homan, who is going to be doing very good border initiatives, like these are the things that we wanted. It's not like this is surprising to us. We wanted to have this debate. We wanted to have this debate when people with access to us are actually there in power. In fact, after the whole thing blew up yesterday, David Sachs and some other people were complaining about the possibility of Stephen Miller basically preventing progress from being made on the H-1B policy loophole or whatever.

They were saying that Stephen Miller is someone that they don't think they can work with in order. to do what Vivek wants done when it comes to like Indian immigration. And so that's actually a good thing. The fact that these guys are complaining because people who are, even Stephen Miller is not all the way what we want him to be. But he's someone that they are frustrated with because he's too far the right and he's going to be a little bit more critical of the immigration stuff. So these are very good things that we need to recognize as opportunities for us.

That's what the Trump administration represents. It's access. It's the fact that we get to have this debate. It's the fact that whoever was behind Harris and whatever agenda that they had, that's no longer on the table. What is on the table is a fight. And I love the fact that we actually can have that fight. I love the fact that we actually have the opportunity to punch, proverbial punch,

Vevac and Elon right on their own website. I love that. That's what gives us momentum. And that's what gives us the energy to keep pushing the Overton window in the the direction it needs to go. Yeah, and to think that we didn't know this was going to, that it was going to come to this. And to basically, here's what it is. If you're about perfection where it's like, well, I'm not going to take either side because neither side is perfect. I'm going to sit over here in my box and I'm just going to criticize everyone else because I know that I'm perfect. Well, you're not,

you have nothing to say. You're, you're no different. different than the libertarians who are just like, just end the state, bro. If there's a problem, if there's a problem with something in government, just end the state, get rid of the government. I mean, you're literally no different than them. You're just, you know, you understand culture, you understand race, things like that. But if that's the way you act, you have to be able to look and say, okay, where would we be better off? Would we be better off, you know, okay, you don't want 160 million Indians. We don't. We don't either. But you're going to vote for an Indian? What are you talking about?

Do you understand that accelerationism just doesn't work? It may work in a different society. It may work in a more shitty society that would bring things down and they would be forced to rebuild or forced to ask for help, but that's not going to work here. It's too big. The power is too decentralized. What we're looking at here is we're looking at incrementalism and who can we work with. it has already been proven that Elon Musk has, well, first of all, he has a presidency or he hangs out at Marilago.

I mean, it seems like they're very good friends. But also, he looks at what the public is saying to him, and he listens. I mean, that's why he's backing down. That's why he's talking, he's gone from, he's talking about, oh, we just need 0.1%. I mean, you're not going to get that with the regime that was behind Biden that's been behind that's basically been in charge for the last 80 years. At least here you have a chance to have something different and you have a chance to even be able to, yeah, I saw somebody, Woz put out a great tweet today, great tweet thread,

talking about exactly what's happening right now. And the responses were, well, you don't have any power, you don't have, no, you don't. You don't have a voice to say anything. No one is listening to you because you're a fucking idiot who is calling everybody a Jew online who disagrees with you. You call it like Heritage American, oh, you're a Jew. No one's listening to you, okay? But I know for a fact that they listen to us.

I mean, they follow us on Twitter. I know that they listen to our podcast. It was like proven that Tucker Carlson when he was on Fox and still now, His producers were listening to our podcast, and we would hear our words repeated. Okay? That's not happening with Harrison Biden. Yeah, exactly. So, fuck off.

We know more than you. I'm sorry. I hate to sound that way, but we know more than you. And as a matter of fact, here's something. Go look at the people. Go look at the tech people on. I'm not going to name anybody, and I don't want anyone to name anybody. go look at the tech people online right now who are countering.

There are some countering this. There are people on the right countering this. And look at the ones who are staying silent. And ask yourself, do you have friends out there? Because not every tech guy out there is for this. And some of them are spending a lot of time at Mar-a-Lago. No, I totally agree. And like in terms of strategy, like,

You know, like people, there are people who are, you know, who have different framing about these problems than I do. And we all have a role to play. And the idea that we all have to be like juice-burging, I think is a little bit like silly. Like these, we have an opportunity to be voices that basically, you know, find their way up into the people that are actually shaping policy. Like, I remember last year when Tucker Carlson on his show used the phrase heritage American several times. Like, if I had been, you know, framing my arguments differently that may not have ever made it to a position. This is how you shift the Overton window. You have to argue in ways that basically build bridges that are safe for the, you know, normal American.

This is how you, like, quote unquote, radicalize them is you make them aware of what the actual problems are in words and phrases that they can actually. grapple with and understand. Got anything, Charlie? It might have an internet issue happening again. No, I was... Oh, okay. I was just looking at the latest stuff on Twitter, but... How's everything looking?

What are the responses looking like? What are the reactions looking like? Well, I saw that Musk has kind of just dropped it. He hasn't tweeted about this in the last couple hours. But also, this shouldn't go away. I guess the last thing I could say on the areas we just discussed is, like, I knew this was coming. We have not been surprised by this happening, and I'm not like butt hurt or mad about it. I'm happy that this is actually happening now rather than later.

It's better that this is actually put on the table right now and that Musk and Trump understand the score and where his base is at before the administration even comes in. So we can't let this disappear either. when you're when this is a problem some people on the right have when you're when you're trying to discipline your own side when they step out of line you you don't just

like break alliances and completely throw them under the boss or something when they step out of line but you do have to vigorously and with the appropriate um I don't know gentleness in some cases like I'm thinking here in regard to like a tweet I saw Tom

Woods put out on this subject, like Tom Woods needs to be corrected for being on the wrong side of this issue. But when you do that, you know, I regard Tom Woods as a friend. Actually, Pete and I both met him, I think, at the same conference the first time. Like, I like Tom Woods, but people need to be corrected. He needs to be corrected in this case. You can do that gently, but it has to be done. In other cases, it can be done more aggressively, like with Ramoswami. I'm totally fine, being really, really hard on him. But you also, you also, can't just break alliances with people or have like a total freak out or something anytime something like this happens. This is expected. It can be dealt with aggressively,

but in a reasoned and calm state of mind. No, I totally agree with you. And Tom is, you know, ally. He may not be as hard right as he needs to be in the present moment. But he took the right side on James Lindsay, you know, and he's taking the right side on a lot of things. recently. And so, but yeah, people like that need to be pushed a little bit and they are definitely allies. But people like Elon, you know, they actually get a little bit fearful, I think, of mass discontent. And so you, you actually can bully him on his own platform. And that's a very healthy thing to do. Yeah. I think that people just need to realize that there is no, if this was the

Harris administration, incoming Harris administration, their apparatchiks doing the same thing, there'd be no conversation. There'd be no back and forth. There's nothing there. And now we have that chance.

People can call that cope all they want. I have a tendency to believe that people who use the term cope, I mean, they're really not. that smart. I mean, I use it to be funny and against my enemies. I don't use that against people I like. I don't use that against people who are on, you know, who are supposed to be on my side, unless they're real fucking assholes. But this is what it is. This is the real world. You can sit there and be, I mean, I swear, when I started really shifting out of libertarianism and I started hanging out

with more people who, you know, had, you know, thought like Charlie. Charlie came on my show and really changed my thinking with just a couple sentences that he said. And, you know, I realize that, you know, he is somebody who has a nuanced way of thinking. And then when I started listening to more people over on this side, I was realizing, oh, they're really no different than libertarians in the fact that they're expecting, like, the perfect to happen tomorrow. And if the perfect isn't going to happen tomorrow, they're just going to sit in their box and snipe at people who may be trying to make things happen. I mean, I'm sure there are people who are like, well, the old glory club, you know,

what, oh, you're going to invite us to your event so we can docks ourselves? No. If that's your attitude, we don't want you. When have we ever been Jehovah's Witnesses? And there have been people we've turned, you know, we've told, sorry, you can't join it this time. That's the attitude you have to have because not everybody is going to be helpful in the road going forward. And really, I mean, I've said this before.

I'll say it again, unfuck yourself and unfuck the way you think and the way you approach the world and the way you approach life and the way you approach politics or, you know, you're just not going to be taken seriously by people who can actually get things done. Yeah. A lot of times they don't want to get things done because their brand relies on them to be purity spiraling. And kind of related to this, in the article I put out the other day for the Old Glory Club, I think came out Friday.

I wanted to touch on this and I actually forgot, but this sort of gets into policing what other people are doing on the right. And the position I've come to is like, Pete very much exemplifies this is like I don't care what other people are doing I don't care about policing other factions of the right even if I disagree with like their particular tactics the only time I'm going to complain about what some other group is doing is if they're like actively subverting or attacking me really or by people and I used you know I made the point in that article about how like if you use the term like dissonant right for example example, when I hear people use that term, what I hear is like, there's no group of people that I have loyalty to that I belong to, so I'm just going to associate with this vague group. It's like my group is not limited to, but it's mostly people in the old glory club and some of my other friends. And those are the people that I'll correct privately if need to or accept corrections from,

and those are the people who I care about in terms of like what they're doing. So when people like outside of my sphere you know if they come at us and be like oh well you shouldn't have done this or you shouldn't have done that in regard to like supporting Trump or musk or whatever it's like why are you telling me what to do like you're not part of my thing just because

you were like oh I'm dissident right or whatever it's like people should be you should find a group that you actually belong to that isn't just some vague concept and those are the people that you should care about in terms of what they're actually doing and say

not just like random people on the internet so that's kind of a corollary of some of what you touched on their people like coming at us for for like supporting trump or musk or whatever it's like what it's not your business you know it's not your business what i'm doing and it's not my business to go around policing other random people on the right either unless they're you know very directly undermining me all right um cj what do you have to promote um just the twitter i guess is fine contra mordor. We're doing very exciting things in middle Tennessee as many of your audience probably

as seen, you know, we got in a little bit of a storm, but, you know, be watching. I think that people are going to be pleasantly energized by some of the things that we have going on. So at contra mordorers where you can stay up to speed. Charlie? Well, if you go to the old glory club.com,

especially to slash map. You can see the map now of where our chapters are. So you can click on your state and see if there's something in the state. And if you find a chapter in your state, there should be contact info on all their pages. Map is fairly rudimentary for now because unfortunately I'm just a humble white man and not a pejit. But I'll be continuing to add features to that. So hopefully people find that useful in terms of party people to associate with. It's a very easy website to use and Charlie is responsible for all of it and we appreciate that Charlie. All right everyone.

Thank you and see you on the next episode. Take care.