The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1173: The Life and Thought of Oswald Mosley w/ Thomas777 - Part 1

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

54 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas and Pete begin a series exploring the life and work of British Union of Fascists founder, Oswald Mosley.Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekino show, Thomas. How are you doing? I'm doing it well. Thank you. Awesome. Well, after finishing the California series and then covering,

the 1988 movie Dennis Hopper movie colors. For those of you who haven't heard, living under Iraq, Thomas and I watch movies and comments on them and do our sort of own mystery science theater 3,000. And it is available on my website for a man beyond the wall.com forward slash movies. Links to all the movies we've done there.

And right before that, we actually did Triumph for the Will, that 1935 Lenny Rife install. So there's some good stuff there. Go check it out. All right. New topic. And this is one that I probably brought up a year ago and we just decided to do other stuff.

So the life and the thought of Oswald Mosley, where do you want to start? Mosley's background going back, quite literally four centuries. There's a lot of liminal events in British history. I mean that that's not just some sort of literary trope or something Like do you understand like where Mosley ended up And like why he took the path he did Like you've got to understand the trajectory of his family Like he wasn't

He wasn't an ordinary like a lesser noble or whatever You know it makes perfect sense why he Establish what became the only viable like fascist tendency in Britain because there were a number of them and none of them gained any traction because the people at the helm were bizarre people who weren't

plugged into the zeitgeist or they were just you know or they were just half-ass Tories who had some of admi for Mussolini so they didn't like communism so they go I'm a fascist or you know they were

they were these simple-minded people who were kind of taken in by Darwinist intellectual cultism like Arnold Lees and we'll get into that you know Mosley actually understood fascism

and he actually understood like the historical implications of it and like I said he had a storied family but like not in way that people think. You know, like the, the kind of traditional and punitive description of his heritage is, oh, well, he was this lesser aristocrat and as those people lost their privilege, they became fascist. Like, that doesn't make any sense and that doesn't really track.

You know, Mosley was basically middle class. His family had a lot of money. They were incredibly wealthy for hundreds of years, but they weren't this powerful, like, noble house or something. You know, and the unconstructed House of Commons, like, really until the middle of the 19th century, you know, most of the UK had, like, no representation in Parliament. And the House of Mosley, as it were, was one of those, was part of that unrepresented demographic. You know, so they weren't this idea that the Mosleys were, you know, these kinds of like, this kind of aristocratic faction in parliament, trying to like deny people their, you know,

being manumitted and given the franchise. Like, that's not what happened. Like, they didn't really have the franchise. You know, like, it wasn't. And to understand, like, where Mosley came from, like, you've got to understand. that peculiar kind of localism that emerged in England, like specifically England. And like the Moseley's, their fate was bound up with a clergy of the Church of England and like the British military officer corps. like that was kind of like the

such that they had like influence in their locale like those were really the people they indexed with which makes perfect sense but they had this basic mistrust like both of parliament and of like traditional nobles

and that's like where fascism comes from you know I mean like this should be clear as day to anybody like mostly wasn't a guy who followed fads and he wasn't he wasn't somebody who did stuff for clout. You know, I mean, obviously.

You know, like, nor was he a guy who just, like, enjoyed being an iconoclast. He believed in everything he was saying. And I think it's not just because, like, I'm an anglophone person. I find Mosy to be the most relatable of, like, fascist leaders. You know, Hitler was a messianic personage. almost like a great con. Like he, it's hard to find people like that relatable.

You know, um, the people like Kodriyanu were, like Orthodox Muzahid. Like it does, it's, you know, I find that to be like literally Byzantine,

you know, but, you know, Mosley is a somebody, I think, who doesn't really get enough ink in America. Like the British write about them all the time. It's usually punitive.

stupid and simple-minded, but he's kind of ignored in the United States or such that he's granted any attention at all. People act like he was some weird crank or like some or some insignificant personage like George Lincoln Rockwell. Like they don't understand. They don't understand like where he was speaking from. The guy had tens of thousands of followers. And for After the kind of modern House of Commons, after 1832, like after the Reform Act, for a true, like, got a revolutionary party, like upstart party to get like 40,000 or 50,000 members. And for clarity, these are, like, dues-paying members. Like, the UK has actual parties. It doesn't just have brandings.

It's not like the Republican Party, which isn't an actual party. you know and before moseley these um these schismatic uh you know kind of self-declared fascists and national socialists they'd clock uh at peak like four or five hundred dews paying members like mostly was a serious guy and um there's a reason why um you know he was targeted the way he was and there's a reason why you know he got an audience with with Gerbils and some of these other third-to-right personages

he wasn't a joker but um you know and also too like I it's not most of these counterfactuals there's some jumping around it but I'll get into the a more kind of coherent narrative in a moment

but a lot of these counterfactuals speculations about what would have happened and, you know, if Edward the 8th hadn't abdicated and if the war party hadn't prevailed in the UK, or alternatively, if Sea Lion had actually been a serious, we devised mission to conquer the United Kingdom, you know, by force of arms, by the German Reich. Like, Mosley, absolutely, like, would have been the man that the Reich looked to, to, you know, to, um, act as kind of like a proxy regime, you know, in no small measure. Because Mosley, um, he, he wasn't really a fringe figure, you know, like, he was, like, a very

respectable guy. You know, like, he became something of a fringe figure, particularly after, uh, the war party was able to, you know, kind of shut down, I mean, all opposition, you know, in the House of Commons as well as in the national media and everywhere else. But, you know, what, but mostly was dangerous to the war party precisely because he, he wasn't like this fringe character, you know, and he wasn't, um, and he wasn't just like the sion of, like, a respectable family who, who went on some crazy lark, you know, like Rockwell or something. Like he was a serious fashist. It wasn't, um, it wasn't, uh, you know, some kind of, some kind of theatrical protist posture. But, uh, air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the

northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i. 4.Nor slash northwest. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card,

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with brett taken views of Dublin City from the home of Guinness. Live entertainment, great memories and the gravity bar. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the facts, be drinkaware, visit drinkaware.aweer. Like the background of fascism in Britain is strange. The first true, like, self-identified

British fascist party was literally like the British fascistee who then became the British fascist in 1923. Like they they incorporated after the Mussolini's march on Rome.

It was a lady who formed the organization. He was Ratha. Winter and Ormond. Very strange lady. Very much I mean how to be crass, very much kind of like a bitch lesbian.

I mean, it's just like a fact. She'd volunteered in World War I as an ambulance driver, and she was under pretty heavy fire. You know, she was like a serious person, but she was like this weird eccentric. And she was born to an officer who would serve with the Essex Regiment, who was kind of like, the Essex Regiment, who was kind of like, the British Army infantry for a long time. you know and um her uh her uh her mom was blanche simmons who was another aristocrat um her maternal grandfather had been a field marshal you know these people were extraordinarily wealthy okay and she was kind of like the strange like lesbian daughter um she was like she actually was one of the founders for all practical purposes

or like the scouting movement, like the boy and girl scouts in Britain. They call it something different. They call it like the girl guides. But, you know, so she was, she was kind of like one of these, she was kind of this like rich kid aristocrat. You know, and like aristocrats do.

Like, you know, she was all about national service when the Great War came. But then she developed a hero worship, by Mussolini, which for context, you know, really up through the four powers packed, you know, really until the late 1930s, like Mussolini was viewed as like this kind of heroic personage in the UK. It's considered this kind of like moderating influence contra Germany, you know, who really after, after an Israeli's tenure, you know, like we got into it our war, we were, two series. You know, the Germans were cast

in the most like, in the blackest colors imaginable. But, uh, Mussolini wasn't colored the same way in British media, quite the contrary. And, um, the people like Rotha Ormond, they, uh, they basically admired Mussolini for his anti-communism.

Like, she was not a sophisticated person in any sense. you know, which seems in Congress maybe, but there's something to the cliche of, you know, it's almost like Monty Python like these British aristocrats who actually aren't cultured and aren't educated. That's not just like a trope or it's not just something that, you know, the middle class is like to kind of hold out as some, um, as some kind of, you know, slam on. on people who they resent for for posturing as their betters you know the um she was not she was not an educated nor intelligent person in a real sense and um so like her her like fascist outfit it was

basically just like this kind of like tory it was basically like this musilini fan club of like aristocratic tories you know um and uh she literally established this British fascist outfit. She placed an ad in what was then kind of like the dominant right wing alternative paper

in the UK. You just called the Patriot. She said she was like looking for anti-communist partisans who wanted to you know basically constantly constituted a pressure group to force a more serious posture

against the Soviet Union, which in, early on, that was like a big rallying point of the Tories, is that like, well, you know, labor is going to, they're too soft on Sovietism, and this is like a fifth column in

in the empire and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So that was, um, later on, and we're talking to like much later, you know like a decade subsequent the most of the male

membership of the British fascists defected to the BUF but by that point the organization Ms. Orman's organization was kind of like existed a name only

but just for context I think it's relevant And famously, Mosley said, mostly referred early on to the British fascists as, quote, three old ladies and a couple of office boys. And which wasn't really inaccurate. The success organization, it wasn't a success organization. I mean, like, linear terms. I don't mean that it came from the same ideological persuasion or had membership in common. The kind of subsequent iteration of a national socialist or fascist tenancy in the UK was the Imperial Fascist League.

It was founded by Arnold Lees in 1929. people are familiar with like our lineage our lineage being people of the right they probably know lees because it's an elderly guy like in the 50s and he he made a habit of slandering francis perker yaki in right wing press despite having never met him and by that point lees was a total nobody and yaki famously he used to go around claiming that like yaki was Jewish then he claimed that yaki was pert black Then he claimed that he was an Indian, like an American Indian. And Yaki Pianian said, like, I don't know who this camel doctor is. What's his name, Laos? And Leeds literally was a camel doctor. Like, he was a veterinarian, and his specialty was diseases afflicting camels. Like, I'm not kidding.

And his claim to fame was that he'd met Julius Stryker during some lark to Germany. and Stryker was a crude guy but Stryker also was like a cutting satirist and like a skilled artist and just like a tough bastard even though he was something of a vulgarian and a dummy otherwise like Lee's had none of those skills

and he had none of that insight like he was just a fucking idiot you know so Lisa's old thing was well because I know how camels breed and I know how, you know, traits are heritable, you know, in camel populations. Let's extrapolate, like, zoological principles, like, human populations.

So the Jews are just, like, evil race, you know, and they have, you know, bad racial characteristics. And, you know, we need to breed the right kind of race. you know, just like abject abjectly moronic bullshit, you know, reducing politics to the principles of animal husbandry. With the Imperial Fagin's League, they're like lasting legacy. They had an incredibly dope, like, heraldic standard.

It was like the Union Jack with like a hack and cruise like in the center in black. It like looks incredibly cool. but other than that it was it was like an embarrassment the BUF famously

they shut them down through a lot of ledgered man and through direct action and one of the things Molesley did Moseley had a very gangster streak

BUF black shirts they dress up as communists and then when the Imperial Fascist League would hold meetings is they'd assault and like beat the fuck out of everybody and then like Lee's to grow up and saying like this was Mosley and like mostly be like

what are you an insane person? You got you got moved on by the Reds. You got you got to provide better security for yourself. What's the matter with you? What kind of outfit are you? Which is kind of brilliant. And it's and

it's gaslighting. But that was that was the Imperial Fascist League had like an outsized profile in no small part because

people like the board of Jewish deputies and some of these left wing newspaper types you know they'd hold them out as an example I mean very much like today you know they hold them out as like oh we're being subverted from abroad you know this is

this is the German this is the Hun trying to, you know, undermine and metal in our affairs. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in-person, so together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community.

Find out more at airgrid.I.E. 4.Northwest. Employers, did you know you can now reward you and your staff, with up to 1,500 euro in gift cards annually, completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card. Options Card is Ireland's brand-new multi-choice employee gift card, packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage,

and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit options card.I.E. Today. On the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee. A visit filled with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse. Enjoy seven floors of interactive exhibitions and finish your visit with brett taken views of Dublin City from the home of Guinness. Live entertainment, great memories and the gravity bar. My goodness, it's Christmas.

at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the facts. Be drinkaware. Visit drinkaware.e. You know, during a moment of, I guess, amicability. In 1932, when the BUF, and we haven't gotten there yet, but we will, in a minute, when the BUF was very much ascendant, they'd made something of a piece,

offering to the Imperial Fascist League, by allowing their members with essentially patch over. You know, the Imperial Fascist League, like, turn this down, and so Mosey returned, like, having his people's, like, like, smash them. You know, like, it was at least then and later in his life.

I'm not going to dignify it by calling it a courier. but he um as it's typical like today with like right wing schismatics he had like delusions of his own significance you know it's like this guy had a couple hundred members like the buf at tiburts was tens of thousands strong you know like moseley in a moment of um you know again like in in a moment of a charitable impulse like offered him you know a chance that it kind of cloud and And of course, like, what did he do? Like, Lees turns it down only to some delusion that, you know, he was actually a relevant person. But, um, but Lees, like I said, the reason why, like he, uh, when Yaki went to Europe, you know,

and Yaki famously approached Mosley himself. And they, they didn't get along at all. And Mosley very much was a cold warrior by that point. Um, and I, I think there was some. degree of jealousy of Yaqui and his intellect, but also resentment at the fact that, you know, he's like, who the hell is this American trying to dictate, you know, to the European scene, how, how we should do things and conceptualize, you know, theory and policy and praxis. But, you know, Leif's, uh, lees was still kind of like floating around the fringes of the, of the,

you know, of the right wing resistance, you know, um, because, um, even, even then, you know, like, uh, some of these marginal figures could kind of carve out some sort of niche. And, um, that's exactly what he did. But, um, getting the Mosley, um, the kind of, the fortunes of the Mosley family, it began with Nicholas Mosley, really. he was born in or near Manchester. That's not clear. But Manchester became the ancestral home of the Moseley's.

Like when they acquired their aristocratic pedigree. I'll get into how that develops in a moment. But Nicholas Moseley was born on 1527. And for a brief piece, period, he was a lord mayor of London, which is different than the mayor of London. Like the lord mayor, it still exists, although now it's large like a ceremonial office. The lord mayor of the city of London is like the administrator like of, you know, what's now the financial district of, you know, the city of London.

In those days, it had a directly military obligation. And Nicholas Mosley, during that time, Britain's main adversary was Spain. And this was kind of the beginning of the Moseley family's involvement with affairs revolving around. the security of the British Isles, and this endured it for centuries. And in 18, one of the reasons why the left hated Oswald Mosy so much, during 18th, during the Chartist riots in 1848, his great-grandfather and his great-grandfather's brother, they'd organize the,

these strike-breaking attacks, like, on the chartist, and on like the 1848 revolutionaries, you know, like the Moseley family, they, like, literally, like, went back centuries of them, like, crushing, like, left-wing radicals. You know, this became, like, their role. You know, and that started, really,

with Nicholas Moseley's role as Lord Mayor, you know, um, and again, in those days, this wasn't just a ceremonial office, Lord Mayor of London. You know, he based he was responsible for planning and organizing, you know, what amount of like a civil defense scheme of an anticipation of, you know, a possible like invasion from the continent.

Okay. The Moseley's became very, very rich. Manchester was a center of the wool trade in manufacture. Nicholas Mosley became a very wealthy merchant. And he became a member of the worshipful company of cloth workers, which was basically like a guild and like a corporatist firm that set prices and established standards for the industry. you know so he was very much like uh

like he was very much uh like a self-made capitalist okay and what he did with some of that money is for 3,500 pounds in 1596 he purchased a lordship incinerary of Manchester

and this was easy to come by if you grease the right palms because Manchester it was basically an unimportant market town I mean it became important economically because I had a monopoly on the wool trade but in terms of the way aristocrats and this was still this was before the reform acts that you know kind of transform the House at Commons into like a normal parliament like in those days this is the this is these are the days we still had like like you had like literally empty boroughs where like you know some aristocrat like you know dating back to like the 1100s or something like he was able like monopolize you know an entire voting block in the House of Commons you know like based on some like ancient charter of some like then worthless land so I mean there was no relationship between you know the the productivity of a territory and its representation. in parliament. So if a guy like

Nicholas Mosley, who's like just like some rich guy, is like, yeah, I want to buy like a lordship in Manchester. Like a house of lord to be like, go ahead. You know, like whatever turns you want. You know, but Nicholas Moseley was smart. Among other things,

like with this great wealth he'd accumulated, not only did he like basically buy himself into a lordship, he hired Inigo Jones. who was at the time the top architect in England and he hired him to design and build

his manor house which is Hothend Hall okay now I think it's an art museum it still exists okay but that was like that was like Mosley Manor essentially um Inigo Jones who's the first he wasn't the same he wasn't the

like this top architect in England, but he was the first, he was the first architect of the modern era to, like, employ the conventions of classical Roman and Italian Renaissance architecture, like, in Britain, you know, so this was a big deal. And it was no small matter to, like, have him design your manor house. You know, like, this conferred a lot of clout. operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area

and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash northwest. Employers, did you know you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1500 euro and gift cards annually completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card.

Options Card is Ireland's brand new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCard.I.E. Today. Inflation pushes up building costs, so it's important to review your home insurance cover to make sure you have the right cover for your needs. Underinsurance happens where there's a difference between the value of your cover

and the cost of repairing damage or replacing contents. It's a risk you can avoid. Review your home insurance policy regularly. For more, visit Understandinginsurance.i. forward slash under insurance brought to you by Insurance Ireland for context the

the Queen's house where you see one of the royal residences it's in Greenwich London it's been repurposed a bunch of times and it's obviously a historic building and like it's no longer like a royal residence but at the time it was and he designed that

okay so I mean this was this was a big deal he also he'd been involved in like designing stuff for the stage and he was a buddies with Ben Johnson and Johnson was a he's considered basically the most significant playwright other than Shakespeare probably his most notable works are every man in his humor the Alchemist Bartholomew Fair. So, you know, this is going to accompany that Nicholas Moseley was keeping.

You know, and not, I mean, very deliberately, too, like when Nicholas Moseley got married, he got married in the city of London. You know, he was obviously trying to, like, established some kind of, you know, familial presence there. It didn't take because the Molesle's ended up basically after his sinecure, like the Moseley's were once again, like, relegated to Manchester. But, you know, the, aside from like their great wealth,

the family managed to kind of skate on the cloud captured by the, you know, the great patriarch Nicholas for a very long time. And yeah, he, owing to his service as Lord Mayor, he was knighted, the Queen Elizabeth the first, and subsequent to his knighthood, he was the High Sheriff of Lancashire. So he was an accomplished guy. And this is significant, too, because, again, this dude was an upstart capitalist. You know, like, he wasn't really a noble. And, like, that didn't really happen in those days.

You know, he was one of the first to essentially, like, make that jump. So, again, when you read some of these, like, left-wing histories that deal with Mosley, produced in the UK, I mean, like they talk about him, like he's basically some, like, lesser version of King Charles or something who, oh, he became a fascist because he lost his noble type.

Like, that's nonsense. Like, it's not what he was at all. And frankly, a man like that, like, such as the caricature is painted, like, wouldn't have been attracted to fascism in the first place. I don't think. Like, it wouldn't, it wouldn't track with anything.

but the like I mentioned a minute ago the the chartist and the the Chardis in the Peterloo Massacre. The Chartist rise to the Peterloo Massacre.

These were and are going to held out as like the great sins like the Mosley family. The Peterloo Massacre on August 16th, 1819, there was this mass demonstration demanding parliamentary representation. It was basically a precursor

to like the Chartist movement that kind of peaked in 1830s and it's kind of final it's kind of final zenith was 1848. But there's this crowd of like tens of thousands of people. obviously the the crown

was terrified of some kind of some kind of Jacob and style revolt um cavalry assembled as well as you know

chartered men under arms this armed element assaulted the crowd including like a cavalry charge like dead into the center of it. A couple dozen people died. Several hundred were injured.

The Mosley family played a direct role in organizing the forces that suppressed this mass protest. And even into the like even into the late 1950s when Mosley was staging his comeback you know this was Mosley's most as a descendant of you know the

the brutes of the Peterloo Massacre it's it's really strange but that's I mean that's that's kind of the way the UK is the the Mosley's started to lose, interestingly, they started to lose their influence

in Manchester after the reform of parliament really from like 1832 to like the 1850s you know

the Mosley family was in a strange position because on one hand they'd made their fortune through industry, but they'd purchase noble title. So in Manchester, local merchants and industrialists, they had to pay what was called a tollage to the Mosley estate. It amount of a kind of taxed, not just on goods, any of the municipality, but if you wanted to make use of a stall or a market space, like you you had to you had to like pay rent to the house of moseley you know um leading the charge against this system were uh was a contingent of jewish merchants in manchester moseley's grandfather very much this kind of like very hostile situation to go up between like

the house of Moseley and the Manchester Jewish community, which is really interesting. You know, and that, that endured. You know, it's, and because the Moseley's weren't, and when they appealed to, to, when they, when they appealed to the House of Lords, you know, again, until, until the mid-19th century, Manchester didn't even have representation in the House of Commons.

And then after it did, you know, basically like the true aristocracy, their view was like, we don't care about you. Like, what is the Manchester? Who are the Mosleys? You know, so they couldn't count any support from London. Their fellow industrialists resented them because to them locally, they were like, like this aristocratic clan that taxed people. So the Moseley's basically their allies became the Church of England and like the local military contingent.

You know, which again completely tracks with how, you know, Oswald Moseley viewed the world. You know, this is like a constantly like middle class problem. You know, it doesn't matter that there's like a kind of veneer of like nobility, like, on it, you know, and I'm not somebody who resorts to class analyses to describe fascism, but there is an aspect of that, you know, particularly in a place like England, you know, that can't be denied.

So it's kind of like a perfect storm of shit, you know, kind of like conspiring to design, like how the life of Oswald Mowseh would develop. You know, particularly when he considered that, you know, he was of the lost generation who fought World War I. You know, he, um, he didn't live in, in real poverty in the inner war years, but he wasn't exactly well off. He was like suffering like everybody else was. You know, um, his family, quite literally.

had like this running vendetta and vice versa with like the local Jewish community. I mean it's it's like mostly like faded to like take the path that he did. You know?

And there's something I have a big fan of C.S. Lewis. Like I'm not into like Tau Kine and stuff like that. Like I like Somerset and mom and I like C.S. Lewis. And now to go to our track, but something both of them

write about, you know, reading between the lines. It's about how, like, if you're English, like, specifically English, you know, like, these kinds of, like, liminal and historical phenomena, like, dictate your life. And, like, you can't, like,

escape from it. And I think that's really true. You know, like, it's not really like that in America. I mean, yeah, like, you can't, like familial tragedies have a way of like reaching out across generations and um the past is a way of insinuating itself into the present like especially if you're from like a prestigious family but it's not quite the same you know like in like in england like the whole issue with moseley and uh going back literally centuries his family's reputation as kind of like enforcers of the ancient

regime, like people in 20th century to them that might have well have been yesterday. And they're like, you know, look at this son of a bitch. He's, you know, he's responsible for the Pueleu massacre. It was two centuries ago. It doesn't matter. You know, like it might have been yesterday. And other societies, even, you know, even other like ancient European culture is like, they're not like that. You know, there's something, there's something peculiar about England.

And that really can't be denied. You know, I don't think. But it, uh, mostly was, you know, and so this was they, like, the family kind of became this, they became very committed to kind of like traditional, like English sensibilities, you know, like, they were cut off, like, despite, despite, despite, despite, despite, being this family that made their fortune in industry, like they were in this weird, like, market town. They weren't in, like, industrial London or something.

You know, they, and again, like the, the true aristocrats at Westminster, like, wanted nothing to do with them. You know, in 300 years, only two Mosleys were elected to parliament. You know, they didn't contribute anybody from their ranks to academia, like the running Molesleys who were like artists or architects.

Like basically they were a family of soldiers, of Parsons, of, you know, businessmen who had good hustle and were good at making money. You know, this very much like the middle class, like, backbone of England.

you know it's uh moseley himself no it's not it's not a good okay mostly was born in november 16th 1896 his mom was 21 year old katherine heathcote known as maud it was a very difficult birth It was 18 hours And it almost killed his It almost killed Maud His mother His dad was Oswald

Arnold Moseley Um He was basically a functioning alcoholic He was a cad He was a gambler A womanizer Um

He was known for having a filthy mouth And being something of a hooligan Like even Even in the middle age Like he'd get in trouble for brawling um and just for you know kind of crazy annex you know that you'd associate with some kind of unhinged frat boy um when oswald mosley was born his father telegramed basically everybody he knew you know and um you know he seemed to be incredibly proud of the fact his wife had born him a son

and in Maude's diary she expressed with relief that it was a boy because obviously the kind of the purpose of the pregnancy was to produce an error but other than the fact that Walt Mosley was happy that he had a son

he seemed basically uninterested in his family you know and like Oswald Mosley later he'd talk about his family I mean not so much in idealized terms but he'd insist that he had this like happy home life, which it seems to be anything but the case. You know, like he, like his mom doted on him by all accounts, but, you know, he had this, his parents from this, like, loveless marriage.

His dad, again, was like this caddish kind of mean guy who, like didn't really have any interest in his kids. You know, it, um, his father had been a boxer, too. Like, he, uh, he was an accomplished, uh, featherweight boxer. you know reputation is kind of a bully you know like not

not a happy upbringing um Mosley was known as Tom or Tommy by his whole family presumably to distinguish himself from his father eventually the the parents separated

without the formulating to formally seeking divorce. And it was understood pretty much by everybody that it was, it was Wald Mosley's compulsive promiscuity that led to it. I guess, Walt Mosy, like any reasonably attractive woman,

like under a certain age, like you try to nail her. You know, I mean, like I said, it seems like a very unhappy home. And Oswald Mosley himself, he was something of a compulsive womanizer too. And when men don't have an inherent, inherit the sins of the father. Mosley's kids liked him. Oswald Mosley's kids.

And he seemed to be like an engaged father, unlike his dad. But he had similar problems with improperly, you know, improperly pursuing these kinds of extramarital. affairs, you know. And this, like Molesley's mom, whatever her shortcomings, she did, like, live by kind of like the values of the family. Like she was a, she was very much like a church goer, very much a believer, you know, very much kind of disgusted by the infidelities of her husband. That had to be a weird environment to grow up in. I mean, frankly, I mean, that kind of infidelity is going to be hard on kids anyway.

But frankly, like most guys who grew up with a father like that, like the mother just kind of tolerates it, you know, and doesn't really care that much because, you know, she's somebody like Lady Bird Johnson was, and it's like, well, that, you know, I've got mine, so what do I care? Like, you know, I got a good life and I got a husband with a prestigious role. Like, it's got to be very strange to have a father who's a true cat or a mom who's like, you know, like a church going basically like modest, you know, proper lady. Like I, I'm sure that led to some screwy psychological vehicle vagaries. But where are we at?

Yeah, I realize we're only going 50 minutes, but frankly, I'm not feeling great. And before I get into most of these war service and stuff, like I kind of want to save that for the second episode. Again, I'm sorry to be abrupt. I'm just, I'm not feeling well today. No problem. Not a problem at all. Yeah, let's do some plugs and we'll get out of here.

Yeah, yeah. No, again, forgive me, man. No problem. Yeah, I'm in the process of recording content for season three of the Mind Phaser pod, which I'm very excited about. I had to postpone a couple days because my haul doesn't have been great. But that's underway this weekend. And you can find the pod at Substack as well as some of my longer form writing. It's Real Thomas 777.7.7.com.

I'm removing season one and two from behind the paywall. And so there's about 15 episodes of season one and about 10 of season two. As of now, you can access for free. And every day or two, I'm uploading like five or six episodes from behind the paywall. So be aware of that. You can find me on social media at Capital R.E. BAL underscore number seven, HMAS, 777.com. I've got a website that's kind of a one-stop for my content.

It's number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777.com. And, yeah, my Instagram, on telegram, just seek and you shall find. All right, pick it up in a few days. Thank you. Yeah, no, that's great. Again, I'm sorry. No problem. Yeah, thank you, man.

Yeah.