The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1176: The Life and Thought of Oswald Mosley w/ Thomas777 - Part 2

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

67 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas and Pete continue a series exploring the life and work of British Union of Fascists founder, Oswald Mosley.Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Thomas is back part two of the life and the thought of, was he sir? Did he ever become Sir Oswald Mosley? Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that. Yeah, he did. Yeah, his, his claim of nobility was complicated. We got into some of that in the first episode.

I'll get into that and the conclusion, which, among other things, El Chai Poulosin, relating to his biographical data. So where are we going to, where are we jumping off today? The key to understanding Mosy's political trajectory is World War I. His experience was more like that of Adolf Hitler than people will acknowledge.

His time under fire was a lot more brief. And unsurprisingly, there's this really insipid tendency of English historians to try and throw shade on Mosley's war record, which is ridiculous. you know um but

I'll get into Mosley witnessed from the air as an aerial observer with the Royal Flying Corps the first chemical weapons assault of the war at EPR in 1915

and about 10 kilometers from where Mosley was on that day was Adolf Hitler on the ground, you know, with the opposing element. It's fascinating. But, you know, we talked about in the first episode, Moseley's lineage, the people that they captured as allies over generations tended to be military officers

and Church of England clergy people and adjacent elements, you know, which, like, I made the point that to constantly middle class resume in the in the UK sense not in the American sense and mostly himself mostly was mostly self-educated you know and for an aristocrat even one who had kind of an unusual pedigree like he did that was pretty unusual and he essentially educated himself in politics when he was convalescing you know he didn't um he didn't have a discreetly identifiable political psychology prior to really the conclusion of the of the warriors and why he was this young prodigy of parliamentarian and how he got who encouraged him in that direction is is interesting because it was one of Churchill's cronies not because Churchill and the organization around him

like look favorably by Moseley. It was they very much owed to Machiavellian politic and they wanted, they wanted him to run on the liberal ticket hoping that the Lib Dems could

split what was a burgeoning consensus among labor. You know, and the Labor party had a lot of momentum. Then the immediate aftermath of the Great War, That's a bit outside the scope. But we're going to get into Mosy's early,

is adolescence and early adulthood here because that's essential. And I think Mosey's an important person, and should be for anybody is philosophically oriented towards the right. And people should become competent in the biographies of these people. and what sorts of ideological tendencies they represent

and what they're the standard bearers of. So I spend more time and that kind of thing than some historians. But, you know, Moseley grew up without a father, really. His father was not a good man. And Moseley, unfortunately, emulated a lot of his vices. Moseley really liked violence as a young guy, and he was marinated.

His military education, that was very, much encouraged. You know, like militarism, it's like the scare word, you know, like militarism and that people talk about the culture or the Kaiserite, like, oh, it was steeped in this kind of toxic militarism. That's the way it was everywhere on the continent as well as the UK. You know, and part of this really, you know, from after Israelis tenure onward, a lot of this was kind of cultivated, like we talked about in other series, owing it parts of the rudderlessness of the empire, and the need for kind of a coherent pulse star around which to orient policy.

But it's also, it's just kind of like violence at scale, and martial impulses were just in the zeitgeist. You know, and mostly wasn't where it swept up in that. But I think it was probably uniquely susceptible, and I'm not trying to play, you know, dollar store psychologist, but, you know, Mosley's, the marriage and his parents had essentially been breaking down from the time Mosley came out of the shoot. You know, his father was literally absent when he was born. He sent out a bunch of telegrams, you know, like effusively, you know, gushing over the fact

that his wife had given birth to an heir, but he didn't really have any interest in, you know, in the actual, you know, investment required to be a parent, you know, psychically or emotionally. He was a degenerate womanizer, like gambler, brawler. You know, and by, and Moseley's mom, Maude, she was this really stately looking woman. She was about 5'10. I mean, we're just still, like, very tall for a lady. But in those days, you know, that was highly unusual. She was a very pious believer.

You know, she took her faith seriously. You know, she very much held the family together. And Mosley's grandfather, his maternal grandfather, was kind of like his surrogate dad. And Waldy, Maldi's own father, like his, Waldie's own father, like, thought very poorly of him. and the way he treated his family. So Moseley's grandfather kind of stepped in as much as he could to be his father figure. And by 1901, when Moseley himself was five,

and Maud was very pregnant with Moseley's younger brother, Edward. I know Edward was already born by 1901. Yeah, I think he was about two years old. It's like Toddler Edward, who was born in 1899. But Maude finally left. You know, like enough was enough. And the, you know, they gossip in those days around a philandering husband, especially for somebody who's, you know, admittedly the Mosleys were not conventional aristocrats,

but they had enough of a public profile that this was a gross embarrassing. you know um so it uh you know maude separated when when mozze was a very small boy um you know in this uh even with you know a paternal influence in his life like especially that generation and especially considering their station this had to have had a profound effect on on Mosley and that uh I found in my own life I mean and this is anecdotal but I mean all life is anecdotal like men who develop under similar conditions with an absentee father like that they they tend to be very uncompromising I've noticed okay but uh you know mostly he was very devoted to his mom but not in

like a, not in a contentable way, but, you know, in a way that was probably somewhat unusual for Anglophone people. Like we, Anglo-Protestant people, you know, Germanics, but specifically, you know, Anglos, were a very patriarchal culture. And that's something that I think a lot of people don't really understand for. without and that's one of the reasons for the the tenor of discourse like cultural discourse of a punitive nature um in america that's so i mean it mostly was something of an outlier like i and why do i emphasize this not just because it's i enjoy speculating on people's psychology or

not just because it's it's trivia but mostly's detractors and even some people should know better They cast him as kind of like, oh, he was this lesser aristocrat who, owing the declining fortunes when he reached the age of majority became a fascist. That's like lazy thing for all kinds of reasons. And I don't really think it tracks even with more traditional personages. or more conventional personages. But in Moseley's case, he was very much an outlier. You know, and the, only the Mosey's grandfather being his substitute parent, though,

especially during his like, pre-ales informative years, he was a very uncompromising guy. Morals, tradition, a kind of martial ethos, you know, you're a you're a nobleman you know what however alienedly we might be from london and from the house to lords you're a nobleman we're the vanguard we're the ones who you know quash the the the warring class traders in 1848 you know we're the ones who are like the guardians of the race and uh the faith of the empire you know um and that's something most of the mostly internalized very much, you know, and being raised by grandparents, always, especially in the 20th and 21st centuries, when there's, you know, generational divisions are a real thing that will put you, I think in some ways that puts men,

like, in better stead to understand their historical situation. in this, you know, if they're people who are thoughtful in that regard. But it also, it's, it very much indicates a different formative experience between a child and their, in their parent figure, particularly their father figure. They're like, their values are going to be out of step with most of their peers, okay? And that was very much the case with Mosley. You know, it wasn't he was a natural leader and people were attracted to him but he didn't he didn't fit in with boys his own age even of his own even of who had class and stationed in common with him you know and i think all these things kind of conspired for that you know and the um this kind of atmosphere of uh

this kind of atmosphere of strife within the family within the paternal lineage uh that had of uh that had to have brought an intolerance for certain kinds of behaviors and dispositions in most, I mean, I know it did, how could it not? And um, despite mostly his own problems

with, like, sexuality and, like, womanizing and stuff, he had, he had very, very little tolerance for what he perceived as weakness in the ranks of his own men, okay? And, um, in a way that was above and beyond what a political soldier should

you know adopt as a standing doctrine um mostly he uh he uh he attended what was considered then

about the best English prep school um west downs uh it was run by a guy named Wynel Helbert um I mean if that's not like a schoolmaster name. I don't know what it is. But he

he was at West Downs with the son, the sions of a bunch of military families. One of his classmates was John Sinclair, who went on to be the chief of MI6. Mosey was remembered by people, his classmates, including Sinclair, as being incredibly bright, but you know, had basically no interest in schoolwork.

You know, he, he was interested in his own kind of fascinations. Again, like very much they get off Hitler, you know, who also had an incredibly contentious relationship with his father, who was a real bully,

you know, in the pure sense. And of course, Hitler the parish priest and one of his history teachers at his elementary school kind of took him under their wing as his kind of stand-in paternal figures. But, you know, what an early indicator of Mosley's trajectory was he established his reputation as being about the best debater in the school. you know and he could basically wrong foot anybody in these kinds of discursive exercises and make them look stupid. You know, and in the UK, the reason why question time remains a thing, even as deteriorated as the culture is across the pond, is being competent in letters and being competent in that kind of, you know,

combative verbal advocacy. I mean, that's something like every Englishman of any station is supposed to excel at. And Mosley was second to none. I've told people that they should watch. There's a lot of film of Mosley, and a lot of it's been restored. And it's pretty easy to find, unlike some footage from the era. And unlike, you know, a lot of footage that's, you know, owing to the kind of hegemony of the cloud, proverbially speaking, you know, a lot of this stuff is kind of being censored and just by being, like, redacted. But there remains this day a lot of Mosley stuff.

And, you know, Mosley was, I think he was about out of the entire coterie of kind of radicals, you know, both on the right and the left. I think he was about the best public speaker that includes that off Hitler. I mean, Hitler's

energy and his messianic sort of mystique gave Hitler a kind of gravitas that mostly didn't have. What are you talking about in terms of pure command of the language?

and a man who's kind of like a pure politician and kind of like the Greco-Roman sense. You know, I don't mean in the pejorative sense. You know, that that's Moseley, you know, and there's a profundity and an exciting energy to Moseley's speeches that don't resort to like idiotic soaring language and a lot of these things that, everything else aside, I mean, aside in the fact that stuff comes off as stupid and puerile, it's just not suited to the English languages isn't suited to that.

You know, and mostly, some Moseley speeches are better than others, but none are subpar. You know, so I strongly suggest people taking as much of that as they can.

Um Helbert, the headmaster Um He was very much Uh He very much sought to in and date the student body

With a kind of strong communitarian tradition And he, he like bordered on like blood and soil kind of stuff You know, um Rolf Gardiner who uh later became like an English national socialist.

He recalled that Helbert was like a hero to him and a lot of the boys at the school. You know, and he, he, without directly saying it, it was clear he was kind of suggesting that Helbert very much kind of inundated the boys

with the values that later, you know, made himself a national socialist. He said, Helbert wanted every he felt that every man and woman um you know had to abide

what was their own peculiar destiny according to the laws of you know not just character and spirit you know but according to their you know kind of like racial destiny in things and historical situatedness you know and he

he tried to he tried to inundate the boys with a kind of like patriotic fervor, you know, but not in some superficial way, you know, it was bound up with being an Englishman, being of a certain class and station, having certain responsibilities, you know, viewing yourself and like your race as, as, you know, the best, but also that containing certain moral obligations to other people, you know, within, you know, the folk community, but also just generally, you know, a kind of noblest oblige for a population providing over an empire.

You know, and Moseley later in life, Moseley was like a huge prankster. Like he do mean-spirited stuff to his ops, but like to his friends and comrades that men under his command. And, you know, he, one of the reasons people liked him is because, like, he'd break up, uh, sober moments by doing, like, funny shit. And, um, apparently that was, like, headmaster Helbert. Apparently, that was, like, something that, according to a gardener, like, that, that was something that was something that Mosley had gotten from him, you know, which, I find that kind of thing interesting. That just because it's humanizing, but that, that tells you something about the person, like, stuff about, like, a great man's sense of humor, like, what kind of, like, what kind of. women he liked like that's it's not just trivia you know i mean uh i realize it probably got a a stronger fascination with this than people who aren't engaged in you know kind of like an

obsessive study of history but i maintain it's uh important moseley's secondary school uh was uh winchester that had been founded uh initially as a monastic institution in the 14th century. By the 20th century, this was kind of the peak of the progressive era, like a tail end in the UK, like public secondary school, it'd become this like revered ideal. you know and it was part of that was uh despite uh you know from uh the disraeli from disraeli's tenure on or the israeli himself wasn't particularly germanophobic but from that period onward there was this

tendency to talk about you know the kaiser rike like it was lacking in every way compared to the u.k in cultural terms you know there was a suggestion it was actually culturally impover Well, I mean, that came from a basic, from a place of basic anxiety, okay? And like the Bismarckian, like public education system, in some ways the British were trying to emulate that, you know, but with, but while insinuating their own kind of like characteristics into it. And obviously, like, very much, including stuff suggestive of, you know, what they viewed as their kind of imperial mandate, which, of course, you know, had a providential origin,

according to the whole kind of pastiche of influences that made up the late British umpires mythologies. But the Eaton, Harrow, and Winchester, they were considered to be like the top, like, public schools. Okay. The curriculum was loyalty, honor, chivalry, faith in Christ, patriotism,

sportsmanship, and competence and physical pursuits, and above all, you know, like leadership, particularly going to the era with an eye for military command. You know, because again, not only was this not the exclusive domain of continental and specifically Teutonic people, but this was truly a global phenomenon.

Okay. There was war and rumors of war on the minds and lips of men from east to west and quite literally in the air. Um, Mosley also, in the 50s, especially when he was staging his comeback and he, obviously this was like the nascent era of television

and one of the favorite ways to try and rook then, you know, elderly Mosley was to these like left-wing journals, you know, to say like, well, obviously, you know, at these institutions that, you know, we now know were inundating people with the wrong ideas, this is where you learn anti-Semitism.

You know, and something, mostly would be kind of flippant about it. You know, and he said one time, well, there's a whimsical brutality in the English character. you know ha ha ha and uh there's probably not so different from the way I answer questions

related to the same topic because it's a stupid question and it's something that no self-respecting man like lets himself be checkmated by but there wasn't a counterpart of Julius Stryker

the Sturmer type anti-Jewish media or kind of subcultural sentiment in the UK. But there's a basic understanding before Churchill's truest sentencing that you know, Disraeli was an outlier. Like, no Jew is truly an Englishman, you know. Um, and that should be, that should be obvious, um, to anybody who knows the culture. But, uh, this idea that Mosley somehow developed this, like, unique hostility to Jews and Jewry doesn't really track. And, uh, in fact, Mosley, he was lambasted by a,

lot of people on the right as being, you know, soft on the question. You know, lately, when I say lately, I mean, past like 30 years, okay, upon an historical time. You know how the English, maybe you don't know. I didn't know until I went there, like years and years back, speaking of ancient history. There's these like little circular plaques. They almost look like plates or something. They're like these like unobtrusive, like markers.

and in the UK they put them on historical sites. You know, like, I'll be like, oh, this was, you know, Benjamin Disraeli's, like, child in school or on this spot, you know, like, this happened. They've got one that I think went up in the late 90s

commemorating the quote, Battle of Cable Street. That was the BUF March where they brawled with a constellation of of enemies including a you know

a mob of I think we're under the banner of the Jewish war veterans or something because there was a traditionally Jewish section of London and so this is like held out as you know all these Nazi brutes went

to like pogrom you know the Jews of London but you know they got they got fought they were they were beaten back by this got a rainbow coalition of people who realize that's not international character. That's a weird way to

come at the BUF because they really weren't, like don't get me wrong. The BUF absolutely was was favorable to the German Reich and they certainly viewed

Jews as the enemies of the empire in political terms. Like, mostly, he didn't have some, like, racialized view of Jews, but, like, holding Mosy and the B.U.F. out is kind of like the mortal enemy of English Jewry is kind of strange.

But I think it owes more to the illiteracy of, you know, the body politic as well as the, you know, I mean, the, the academe has been nakedly politicized in the UK, just like here, you know,

since, since, since the New Deal slash Churchill era. But I think it's also it's like a basic ignorance. But, you know, that forgive me of that was too tangential. But

the, Mosley was very much a Christian during this period. And this is significant. And I'm going to get into what I mean by this in a minute. Mosley, he became very interested

in spiritualism. and theosophy and even some heriosophy. When he was convalescing, he read a lot of the stuff that came to, like, inform people like Savitri Devi later on and things. Mosley openly acknowledged that he felt caught between like a pious belief and, you know, the kind of Anglophone interpretation of the faith. and legitimate paganism. And this kind of like liminal phenomenon

in the Carl Jaspers and Jungian sense of being caught between historical imperatives and the ancient past informing the present in critical ways. and this kind of weakening of the barrier of reason between what is actual historical memory, what is myth, what is a matter of faith, what is the historical, you know, occurrence. Nowhere is this greater felt than in England. And C.S. Lewis wrote about this, okay? mostly embodied that tendency to a T.

And if you want to understand true English fascism, it comes from a different place than German national socialism or like Spanish syndicalism or, you know, Italian fascism. You know, I mean, in the case of the German Reich, yes, It very much came from what Nolty called fear of practical transcendence, and that it has a liminal implication, but it's not really the same thing. Okay. And I make this point, now just because I respect Mosley, and in a lot of ways I modeled myself on him,

but because this is key. And it mostly did not gravitate to fascism. to some fatishness, like, nor do you view it as some sort of skin one takes on, metaphorically speaking, you know, for pragmatic reasons or to combat, you know, the opposing tendency of communism or anything like that. This is very like, this is a very much like auto-cathized, like, mode of fascism that mostly developed, you know, and that's why, that's why, that some, that owes to his staying power in the public mind. Because guys who

like third rate guys who tried to bandwagon on the right, you know, and model themselves on Eolf Hitler or something, those guys were a dime a dozen and like nobody followed them and nobody thought that they were serious people and nobody even remembers them.

You know, like what sets Moseley apart, you know, that Moseley wasn't prime minister. I mean, Moseley didn't, you know, for a man who, I mean, yeah, he was a significant political figure, but like, so was Ramsey McDonald. Okay, and like, there's not, like,

volume is written on Ramsey McDonald, who was prime minister. I think the point stands. You know, but, Mosley, during this time, you know, Mosley's mom and a single mother, Mosley's father, who was still quite wealthy,

but was basically, you know, he, absent. in every sense, including in terms of, you know, any inclination of her own material assistance. Moses' mom was struggling to meet the tuition demands. You know, I'd just say the expenses of, you know, of Moses' education.

His grandfather set up a trust fund for the boys, Mosley and his brother Edward. mostly something that helped him was uh he took up boxing um and he became a a very good boxer you know um at 15 he was fronable enough that he was beating guys you know two and three years older than him, you know, he had a, he had a strong mentor and influence and his commitment to training and his boxing coach, a man named Sergeant Ryan, like Sergeant was his first name, name, it's not a rank. Mostly won the lightweight championship during this time.

as an amateur boxer. And this helped, owing to his prowess, obviously, you know, like he was given a partial, his family was given a partial break on his tuition and things. You know, he later transitioned to fencing. And it's believed a combination of his grandfather, as well as the influence,

of some of these um some of these aristocratic types that uh he came an iconic with who were like the fathers and uncles and brothers of his schoolmates who said basically like look like you know trouble as your family may be you are a nobleman and um that's great you know how to fight because everyone needs know how to fight but nobleman aren't champion boxers they're fensers so mostly took up fencing and he became a fencing prodigy you know um which is pretty remarkable because uh yeah i mean the kind of kinesthesis that lends itself to boxing

and the kind of mental toughness that translates somewhat to fencing but not but they're very very very different um pursuits but Mosy basically excelled at everything you took on you know

um at the headmaster uh at uh Westminster uh

Dr Rendell he uh he'd gone as far as a try and forbid uh Mosley entering the public schools boxing championship

you know saying that this is this is was distasteful for like a man of your station. Like that's how extreme it was. You know, and there was kind of, there was like a disconnect too because the, military training of the time, even for officers. And if you wanted to be an officer then, unless you were, unless in time of war,

you were like a Mustang and CEO who got promoted owing to the fact that you basically pulled some Audi Murphy shit. Like, you wanted to be an officer. officer in the British Army, you know, you had to have the right category. And military training and the entire culture just before World War I

the British Army, it was very, very savage, like almost waltish. You know, the way Mosley described it and the way other guys have, like in their like war diaries and things, you know, it's

almost like clockwork orange or something. You know, like going out, you know, these officer candidates sort of like the sons of a nobleman, you know, going into London on the weekend on leave, and like getting it, getting into

like razor blade brawls with like working class yabs or like sailors like just for the hell of it. You know what I mean? That's not really what you associate with the British army. You know, the officer corps. You know, I mean, this isn't the U.S. Marines. Like it's the British

army, you know, but that it was a, you know, it owed, like I said, like that kind of zeitgeist of violence, but just the same, I mean, the kind of that kind of pretentious overlay that's obsessed with kind of certain modalities of decorum remained, and it's like, well,

you know, gentlemen, gentlemen know how to fight, know to defend themselves, gentlemen like violence, but they don't box. know, that's for, that's something that poor men do. But, um, just to, before we move ahead, just bring it back, what I meant by liminal figures, let me clarify that. Because I think this is important. I don't think it's just a silly tangent. I really, really like C.S. Lewis, and he kind of speaks to me, like, I think, racially

owing to my own heritage. oh i c s willis was a catholic uh convert but um he was very very english and it's the english character better than almost anybody again my favorite bug of his is that hideous strength it's the final chapter it's the sequel to um out of the silent planet you know um and it's part of like his space series. And it follows some of the same characters, but it doesn't have to do with space, although some of the deities and things that feature in the earlier books of the space trilogy feature in it.

But, like, briefly, it's about this young academic, and, like, literally as World War II's ending. He's a senior fellow in sociology at this fictional university. Okay. as the war is ending, this kind of mysterious administrative body emerges that starts kind of absorbing everything of a political or police and military or academic sociological character, like within its penumbra, it's it's called

NICE like nice which obviously is a riff you know it's supposed to represent this kind of like superficially benign institution but it's an acronym for the National Institute for Coordinated Experiments and it turns out

that this thing is staffed by these like occultists okay but they've got this weird transhumanistic view of things and they think that spiritual matters and like occult energy and like the summoning of old gods and malevolent deities they believe there's like a scientific basis for this or at least like this can be reduced

to things like analyzing disturbances in atoms or like you know the manipulation of temporal phenomenon around like these these entities when they emerge or something and that and that'll like reveal through principles and material science like what they are. But it turns out that the reason why NICE has co-opted this university is because it's adjacent to this land called Bragdon Woods.

And this guy, this sociology fellow discovers that in Bragdon Woods, that's the resting place of Merlin, who's a real guy. And this isn't like widely known in the story, but it's like people in the know, like, know Merlin was real and that he's either in repose or his body is here, but this is like a Bragdon Woods, it's powerful, and it's clear if you like disturb Merlin's corpse or, you know,

person in suspended animation, like something terrible will happen. You know, so it basically, as it develops, like, this guy, Merlin's eventually revived. It's not clear what the implications that are going to be, but something apocalyptic is emerging. And as the story goes out, it becomes clear, like, well, this is something unique to England. You know, like, what history is and what mythology is, in certain institutions, in certain patterns of thought, in certain belief structures, these two things collapse into one another. Okay. And if you're not indoctrinated into that or initiated into that in some way, like, you don't really understand what it is to be English. and you're not really part of that cultural milieu, you know, and there's tremendous power in being able to access this kind of liminal memory, but there's also tremendous perils that are involved there, too. Okay? And Mosley not only was a believer in these kinds of things, but he somehow embodied the characteristics culturally and psychologically that you have rise to that kind of paradigm, okay?

And that's the key to English fascism. You know, there's an aspect of historical memory that is something different than the kind of phenomenological aspects of national socialism. But that's what I meant. I wanted to clarify that. the yeah but I'll let me see what kind of time we got yeah I'll pick up on the pace a little bit but

by January 1914 you know young Mosley obviously he was coming to the end of his public school studies um he saw it admit and he had no idea

what he was going to do for a profession but you know again even though even though World War I hadn't broken out yet. You know, something not quite, but precedent to war fever seemed to be in the air. Mostly under, he took the test for the Royal Military College at Sandhurst. He was accepted. For the next nine months, he trained as a cavalryman. and a dragoon.

Dragoons and Lancers, for clarity, Lancers are basically forced reconnaissance. Like, they still exist. There's still, like, designated lancor elements, like, in the British Army today. And on the 20th and the 21st century battlefield, they do what, like, force reconnaissance would do, like, in an American military organization.

dragoons are mounted and dismounted cavalry. Heavy dragoons basically ride to the battle space or in like the Napoleonic era, they'd like ride to the front dismount in formation and then unload heavy weapons that they'd like manhandle as like infantry. But they were basically

pre-mechanized mobile infantry. That's what I think of them in like World War I context. Mostly he had been an avid horseman his whole life. That's another thing that his grandfather had kind of insinuated into him. So militarily, like, what he wanted to do? Like, he wanted to do something with cavalry. You know, as the war

broke out Mosley intended as I said to join the 17th Lancers their commander was a man in Vivian Lockett Vivian Lockett was a cousin of Mosley's okay and he was also like a leading

like polo player so he was a like he was a stud but Mosley Mosley had more personal social capital than he did money or business connections. And this is something throughout his life that kind of helped him get ahead. You know, but he was persuaded to make the switch to the 16th late dragoons

by a friend of his mom's family, sort of lovely stammer. But it was basically the same element. At 17, he was billeted to the 16th Lancers in October 1st, 1914. He's commissioned as the second lieutenant. He reported that Kura Barracks and County Kildare, 20 miles south of Dublin. That was like the home base for, 16th Lancers, who were attached to the Third Cavalry Brigade, which had been reinforced in anticipation a trouble because Prime Minister Asguth's Home Rule Act.

And there was great concern that there was going to be some sort of coup stage in Northern Ireland by like Ulsterborn officers or, you know, an event of a... a breakout of general hostilities in Ireland that like the Ulsterman among the officers would simply desert and like go to defend Ulster.

You know, and this obviously, this is outside the scope of our discussion on Oswald Mosley, but one of the reasons why the Irish situation like developed the way it did after the Easter rising is obviously because, you know, the British were engaged in essentially, like, you know, total war on the continent.

But this was, Mosley was the youngest man, he was the youngest officer in the regiment. You know, and this must have been, this constellation of fact, there was like, knowing you're going to deploy to the continent and it was turning into a meat grinder. You're in Ulster.

There's this fear of, you know, like a 30-year officer who are like native sons deserving you know you there's also concern of uh you know

some sort of general war with uh you know with the the uh with some Irish Republican element I mean this this definitely wasn't um

this definitely wasn't opposing for guys who didn't didn't have didn't have balls you know that's why I resent people trying to throw shade on Mosey's service record I mean it's ridiculous anyway but

just before Christmas Mosey's regiment had embarked for France Mosey was expected to be sent right into action it quickly became clear there was no need for conventional cavalry he realized he was going to find himself leading an infantry platoon

which he was you know he was fine with but he there was an appeal sent out because there was a desperate need for aerial observers in the Royal Flying Corps and uh at that time this was a very dangerous job

for all kinds of reasons and the Germans one of the reasons by Ritzhofen and um Ernst Udette and Young Garing and the rest of the, you know, the Richthoff and Flying Circus, as well as a bunch of these other Kaiser-Rite air aces. They were ahead of the game the Germans were in tactical versatility of aircraft. And they were really chewing the UK and the French to pieces in the air for about the first 12 to 18 months of hostilities.

since it was not like light duty. Also, there was no, there was no ejection and no parachutes in these World War I aircraft. So when the aircraft went down, you just braced yourself and you crashed with it. You know, I mean, it was definitely a man's job.

But Mosley volunteered for the Royal Flying Corps in no small measure because that's where aristocrats went, you know, especially when, you know, the absence of a true role for the cavalry element, you know, it, so that's where he made his home in, you know, in his deployment to France. It was also something of an elite fraternity. The Royal Flying Corps, as of 1914

it had fewer than a thousand men um it was made with two wings and 64 aircraft the number one wing it was literally

wing number one wing number two was commanded by Hugh Trenchard um Mosey was posted to wing two again as an observer

he hadn't qualified to to fly yet um as a solo flyer, which was, and when he did, that ironically is one of the things that conspired to take him out of action, permanently, and a combat rule, I mean. But two weeks subsequent, he joined number two-wing, number six squadron, which, which which had been established on the coast at Dunkirk,

and was deployed to protect, was deployed to assist in the relief of Antwerp. And observers played in a key role because they'd spot for indirect fire, you know, just for context. The, these spotting flights usually took three hours. obviously they were behind enemy lines because they were essentially citing in you know counterforce artillery you know so they'd have to spot for you know where german guns were

situated and the heavy artillery element you know was sometimes you know 70 80 miles behind the lines. So you're basically surveying German defenses in a slow-flying prop plane that with a maximum ceiling of 6,000 feet or so, you know, you're a sitting duck for ground fire as well as, you know, for enemy fighters, which again were a lot more. versatile at this time than um then um then we're a flying core um aircraft you know and then top speed is you know 70 to 80 miles an hour um in a strong wind um if you're carrying ordinance if it's a bombing run and there's you know a recon run your speed might slow to 30 to 40

million miles per hour you know um i mean again this the the ironic casualties from just like ground fire including small arms was it's it's absurd by you know contemporary metrics but um the uh mosley's uh Mosey's pilot that he was assigned to he and Mosey were both shot, I mean, their plane was shot down during a low

flying run where at lowest altitude, they were only 5,000 feet above ground for the mission, Mosey's pilot received the

distinguished service order. Mosley injured his knee and suffered a concussion. This was the first of many injuries. He got, you know, directly going to hostile action. You know, like I said, he was in common for about 75 days, all told, before he was injured catastrophically and taken out of action. Ironically, he was injured when he was qualifying as a solo pilot,

which he probably had no business being in the air, like going to these previous injuries, he'd sustained. But, you know, that, for those 75 days, he was basically in constant action, you know, the uh mostly uh he said uh he wrote a letter to his mother when he was flying these recon sorters he said she should not grieve if he's killed in action because he was sure he would find death quote a most interesting experience um he said that uh he said being under fire was terrifying, but it was also exhilarating and very exciting.

He said it was a quote, peculiar ecstasy, which soon were off, after which time one had to resist a profound depression. But he wrote a lot both to his mom and some of his friends and a lady he was trying to court. about this weird dichotomy because he said compared to the infantry, he's like, you know, we live well. You know, he's like, we live in nice quarters.

You know, he's like, a lot of the guys are gourmand's. So we eat a lot of good food. You know, but then he's like every day, like more of us die. You know, so it's like there's less and less of us at dinner. You know, and he's like, he's like, when you're on the ground, he's like, I'm sure to the infantry, death seems very much organic because it's all around you. You know, he's like, we're kind of like a gentleman's, like, flying society, but then, like, every day some of us, like, get blown to hell.

You know, there's something like, there's something very funny about that in a Gellow's way. But, yeah, let's see what the... Okay, I'll wrap this up in a second. But, um, the, uh, yeah, so the, um, Moseley's, uh, squadron. in April 1915, became a bombing squadron. And this involved literally dropping heroin age from a thousand feet or like strapping like a hundred pound bomb

to the fuselage of the plane and then cutting it loose, you know, and like dropping it approximately over the target. On the 18th of April, Mosley and his pilot were dropping bombs on a Zeppelin shed at the Connolly. This is what earned... This is the mission that earned Moseley

a distinguished service order of his own. But... And there's an interesting dynamic, too, between the soldiers kind of in this first early phase of World War I like Lloyd George

became like a real hero to the men at the front including Mosley and this was his inspiration to become a parliamentarian which we'll have to get into in the next episode This might get straight out

to four episodes I hope that's not a problem or cumbersome Yeah I think you're judging by where we're Yeah yeah I'll I'll aggregate it

Because I don't want to screw up the schedule But Mosley's a reverence for Lloyd George Which seems What I'm sure seems ironic or peculiar to people Who you know Think of

The BUF As it Ultimately was causing of this being kind of the ultimate like anti-establishment element and in some ways it was but I'll get into why Lloyd George became this like iconic figure to like the British combat element at the front in the next episode but um yeah and we'll we'll get into the meat of the B uf in the next episode I promise I just I think this stuff's fundamentally important and um I figure if it wasn't holding people's attention, they'd complain. But

the feedback of this far as soon as it to be effusive, then it's praise, and that's great. I'm re-honored with it. Yeah, we can wrap up, man. And I'll cover more ground and less time next episode, I promise. No problem.

Very good. Very good. Two plugs, please. Yeah, man, I'm retooling my website. My dear friend, he's doing all that work, because I don't really know how to do that stuff. But, um, the, uh, you can find me at, at Thomas 777.com, like number seven, HMAS 777.com. I'm on social media at capital R EAL underscore number seven,

HMAS 7777. Best place to go is substack. That's where long-form stuff is in my podcast. I'm watching season three of the pod by February 28th. but I don't have an exact date yet. It's Real Thomas 777. That's subsdeck.com. You should search for me just under my all, they're under my government name, which is Thomas Sear,

and you'll find my stuff, man. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And all the feedback we've gotten on the first episode is great, and I'm sure this is going to be no different. Not so awesome. Yeah, you're welcome, man.

Thanks for hosting me.