The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1193: The Dulles Brothers and the Founding of the CIA w/ Philos Miscellany and Stormy Waters - Part 1

Episode Date: March 30, 2025

102 MinutesPG-13Stormy Waters is a managing partner of a venture capital firm.Philo's Miscellany has a YouTube channel in which he reviews rare books.Philos and Stormy join Pete to discuss the Dulles brothers providing background and information on the formation of the Central Intelligence Agency. Philo's YouTube ChannelStormy's Twitter AccountPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingunez show. Oh, we have a treat here. Two guys, I love to do the deep dives. So let's try to keep this under three hours. gentlemen. How you doing, Stormy? Doing well, doing well. What's going on, Phyllos? Everything's good in the hood.

Who wants to go first? We're going to talk about a... We're going to get controversial again, and probably piss a bunch of people off. But, you know, I think that's what this show's for. So who wants to start this off? Philo. Yeah, I'll just play it straight.

So the essential information to know for the Dolos brothers is John Foster Dolis was an American Secretary of State, and Alan Dulles was the director of Central Intelligence from 1953 to 1961. That was concurrent with the time that J.F. Dulles was Secretary of State. Now, you might assume that two men being brothers in high positions of power in the federal government would exercise some kind of undue influence on the foreign policy. of the United States. And you would be correct. To go into the life of the Dulles Brothers is to understand the trajectory of both the foreign policy of the United States from about the 40s through the late 60s, early 70s, but also to understand big changes, sweeping changes that occurred within the internal structure of the government.

So I guess on this stream, I'll kind of be this stream. great man presenting information from primary sources. I deliberately tried to stay away from especially very convoluted elements like Alan Dulles' appointment to the Warren Commission, as well as the ultimate culpability upon him for the Bay of Pigs. But other than that, I'm happy to just kind of go through his life. the source material to be a bit short and not overwhelm the conversation. I was very fortunate to

come across a trove of primary sources from the deputy chief of staff for logistics in the military assistance and advisory group. And that individual was the head of Walker Air Force Base in the 1960s. And as we go into El Fletcher Proudy's book, The Secret War, one thing that you'll understand is that the CIA had an extra component. And that was its Defense Department, not so much equivalent, but its partner in how it conducts operations. So having a lot of these primary sources from a side of that organization that's intimately involved in the story is a bit of a treat.

very briefly, I'm just going to outline the sources so you know what I'm referencing, and these will come up again. For the early life of Alan Dulles, I'm citing Gentleman Spy by Peter Gross, as well as the Devil's Chess Board by David Talbot. For my more esoteric sources, I also have the secret team by L. Fletcher Prouty, as well as The Secret War by Sanchez de Gromont from 1962. I have a 1970s book, The Man Who Kept the Secrets about the CIA. I have Donovan and the CIA, which was the CIA's first external biography of itself and the OSS. And I also have the absolute classic and privilege of a first edition, first printing copy of Carol Quigley's tragedy and hope, which outlines the overall United States foreign policy in the 20th century. So those are my sources for this stream, and I'm happy to get into it.

You want to add anything before we start, Stormy? Yeah. Alan Dulles was, and John Foster Dulles was National Socialist sympathizers and American Heroes, and we can take it from there. All right. That's it, Phyllis. Sure. So in getting into the early life and biography of these men, and to be clear, this stream is primarily going to be focused more on Alan Dulles than John Foster. But in looking at them, we also have to consider that most biographies that are highly critical of the Dulles brothers and their activities are written by leftists.

So the most recent and prominent of these biographies, the devil's chessboard, asserts that Alan Dolis is a pro-Nazi sympathizer, which is true, and that he didn't do enough, even though he knew about the Holocaust to stop German activities against Jews and so on and so forth. and if you're very sympathetic to that cause, then that book will be very enlightening. But if you're on our side of things, there's a trove of information within that book, which suggests many more unknowns than are available in other conventional sources about the Dulles Brothers.

So I'm going to start with one book here, Gentleman Spy by Peter Gross. So I guess you have to start first off with Alan Dulles. his early life is straightforward wasp. He's one of five children of a Presbyterian minister. He is part of a very blue-blooded aristocratic family. There's Wikipedia articles back, I think, four generations about his family. Stormier, you might know more on that.

His maternal grandfather was Secretary of State. His uncle was Secretary of State under Woodrow Wilson. and Dulles went to Princeton University. So already starting out, he was destined for big things. Initially, his career began after he exited Princeton by a brief stint in Vienna, I believe eight months, and then transferring over to Byrne in Switzerland. And Switzerland is going to be a theme that pops up a bunch. the time in which he goes is immediately following World War I.

And there's an issue of national displacement after World War I in Europe. So while he's at both Vienna and Byrne, he starts interacting with people from all over the world in his capacity as a, I believe his technical title was a foreign service officer. I'd have to double check that. But going into it, his job is to gather and collect intelligence on the surroundings. He's collecting information upon people, dignitaries that are visiting the embassy. Since he's working for the State Department, he's primarily assisting people with things like immigration claims, and that his function as the Serb Foreign Office was that

he'd have to occasionally help Jews. So very often there's very wealthy and powerful Jews. This was something pointed out in the Peter Gross biography. An interesting little anecdote that Dolos liked to tell throughout his life was that he missed meeting Vladimir Lenin by just one day when Lenin was the leader of the Bolshevik So right before Lenin left for the Finland station, he had arranged a meeting to come to the United States Embassy and have a meeting with Dulles. But Dulles, I believe, had some of their obligation.

Dulles loved that story, which is that you should never pass up an opportunity to meet people. And that's a theme that's going to happen again and again. Dulles is a very good at his job. Well, he starts off as kind of a basic secretarial role. He quickly, in the State Department, rises to a position of prominence. I believe he is the second in command at this embassy, and his dispatches are of a significantly higher quality than his peers. So at this point in time in 1918,

1919, Walter Lipman has started reading the reports of Alan Dulles's. This is right on the collapse of the Central Powers. And these dispatches stand out to Mr. Lippman because the clarity and the insight that Dulles is noticing in the people and the circumstances around him. So Lippman resolved to keep his eye on Dulles. many things are happening at the conclusion of the war on previous podcasts with Pete. I've brought up how Edward Bernays went to the Paris Peace Conference. And a multitude of other diplomats and people that were responsible for World War II ultimately as well.

Bernard Baruch goes. Colonel House also goes to Europe as well. And well, Dulles, I don't think he's actually present. at the Paris Peace Conference, but the information and the dispatches that are going from Dolis to Lipman are used by Lipman to persuade Colonel House that the collection of intelligence is an urgent priority and that if conventional diplomats don't have much interest in pursuing it, then there needs to be a shift in a change in how American intelligence operates. So I just want to very briefly elucidate the concepts of what intelligence is to help people

understand what makes Alan Dulles' role so special. So the way the intelligence process works is that you have a central mission. And in that mission, you have to collect data. You have to process and exploit it. You have to analyze and produce it. You have disseminate it and to integrate it. And then that follows with planning and direction. So the role of Mr. Dulles, as he's going and he's talking and he's meeting to people, these aren't casual acquaintances. Dulles is setting up a network within Switzerland that he's going to lean on in the 1920s and 30s as he goes through his career. And let's see here. I have to, my sources are a little bit jumbled here. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest.

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Go ahead, Stormy. If you don't have anything, um, we can just, uh, wait for a phone. No, I was doing the thing where you talk into your microphone, but don't realize that you're muted. Yeah, that's a, sure. Professional, all, every professional podcaster does that. Thank you. I'm a professional now. I finally, uh, had my cherry popped. I didn't like, So my knowledge of Dulles, Alan, and really John Foster, happens when, it starts when they get home from the Paris Peace Conference World War II is, sorry, World War I is, is, you know, a distant memory. And they are at the law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell. So I don't know if I lo is

Is where you're going next Sullivan and Cromwell or no That's correct But finance isn't really my area of expertise I only know that he was a generally pro-Nazi I have some other specific little anecdotes from that But Did you find your source? Yes, I have

Jump in there, take over it And I'll take it in the post of your years Oh yeah, I found my source. Good job there. So he's at Sullivan and Cromwell. And at this time, he is making network connections to the Nazis. So the Nazi sees power in 1933. And let's, fuck, I'm sorry, I'm screwing this all up.

I'm looking through a source that's like totally jumbled. We should just wait and make it super awkward. Yeah, okay, so here we go, here we go, found it, found it. So Dolos is in Bern and Switzerland, and the reason that that matters is because both in World War II and in the interwar years, Dolos is making connections financially as well. So the Dolis brothers, their Wall Street law firm is Sullivan and Cromwell.

And that sits at a connective node between, all these different international banks, investment firms, and industrial conglomerates. And during World War I, the German economy is totally devastated. And the rebuilding of that falls to these banks and industrial companies. And so there's a lot of U.S. investment that begins to go into German industrial giants, like IG Farben, the chemical conglomerate, and Krupp Steele. There's a great book out there called the Arms of Crip, which to summarize like 2,000 pages of this, history of this German steel company. It's entirely centered within the rur, and they are producing the best quality steel in the planet for hundreds of years.

So after World War I, U.S. investment goes into Cripp Steele, which is an economic powerhouse for Germany. and because it's in the Ruhr, it requires French and British involvement. So the profits that are generated by these investments then go to France and Britain. Due to the Paris Peace Conference and the Versailles Treaty, these flow back in the form of war reparations, and then also back to the United States to pay off war loans. And so Alan Dulles' brother, John Foster Dulles, it's very, very lucrative to have these investments within Germany. And even after Hitler takes power in the 1930s,

John Foster is continuing to work with and do business with German companies like IG Farben. And he's donating money to America first, which is a isolationist party stormy you've touched on it. in other streams. Charles Lindberg was kind of their avatar. And many Americans at this time, very prominent WASP Americans, had a positive opinion of Hitler's Germany.

And Foster refused to shut down the Berlin office of Sullivan and Cromwell in the 1930s. And he ordered the attorneys at his firm to sign their company. correspondence with Heil Hitler until his business partner, who's also his brother, Alan Dulles, grew increasingly worried about a public relations disaster. And then at a 1935 partners meeting at 48 Wall Street, John Foster agreed to remove the Heil Hitler from the letters and apparently was so devastated by this that he broke down in tears because, you know, there's a lot of severing of

German connections that have now been built up in the business world over the last 15 or so years since the end of World War I. And not all of the individuals that are working with the firm are being cut off intrinsically. It's still prior to World War II. So there's not as much of a need at this point. Prominent society people are still entertaining the Nazis. You have to remember also that for most of the 1930s, the Nazis were very well received in the United States. Like the Hindenburg, up until the disaster in 1938, it was this huge, positively received public gesture to see the Hindenburg flying with a huge swastik on its tail. Well, let me jump in here for a second.

Yeah, go ahead. I told Thomas we were doing this, and he threw this in there. He said that Alan Dulles met with Hitler in next. 1933, one of the few Americans to do so and said that he came away impressed. That's right. And that fact he kept secret from the successive director for the Central Intelligence Agency until he was on his deathbed, a guy called Richard Helms. So he kept it very private after the war that he had made and known so many different Nazi connections. And that's also why there's a huge gap in all the primary sources.

during the early Cold War. None of it. And I've looked through all of the sources and reference for any kind of German connection that was known during the early Cold War. The only thing that I was able to find was in a book detailing the rise of the OSS and wartime activities in World War II.

It was a very brief footnote mentioning that at one meeting, Alan Dulles had to be away because he was negotiating with German diplomats and that document, that primary source used in the book, was part of the Truman Presidential Archives and was marked as top secret with compartmentalized clearance. And that was the one, that book itself was from the official history of the agency. So all of these other publicly accessible sources are included,

but the CIA went through that book specifically with a fine tooth comb to remove any reference to any of the German dealings. So most of the references come from things that are way after the early publications about the history. When was the book published? Donovan, the CIA, that is from 1980. So after Kennedy? The more recent one that reveals a lot of his German connections, that's from 2015. That's the David Talbot one about Devil's Chestboard.

Yeah, what you want to do is check the Rockefeller archives. for sure that's where you find a lot of the German stuff because he and his brother only had one main client that they focused on this is why the lefties hate him so much because you know if

some percent government of some pissant South American country wants to get up and nationalize a bunch of United Brood or standard oil stuff the CIA would take time out of their day to fuck you in the ass and take it all back and probably, you know, do bad stuff to you.

So the lefties kind of give him all the shit because he was like, oh, he was, you know, a servant of, you know, capitalism or whatever. He was a lifelong friend with David and Nelson Rockefeller. and a lot of the business relationships between standard oil, which there are many, and the Third Reich, bringing IBM in to the Third Reich, bringing Ford and General Motors in. A lot of the companies that you saw in the Third Reich

got there because two of the top lawyers at Sullivan Cromwell and their largest client, John Rockefeller wanted them there. It wasn't just, it wasn't just John and Alan having these sympathies. This was the sympathy. I mean, Pete, you remember our episodes in the robber barons and like second or third

when we go through who all aligned against, I mean, this is shortly after FDR was place in power. But you had the entire upper crust of American society, Democrat and Republican trying to tear this motherfucker out of the office, including the guy who was the president of the Democratic Party and the previous presidential candidate, the guy that just put him in there.

Because of who he brought with him, the communist, literal communist, Jewish communist underneath. his little wheelchair. So it was vital for the ruling class of America while they were still ruling. It's not more than just kinship. Like, oh, you know, like, oh, you know, this is a similar struggle.

They viewed it as in their interest domestically to strengthen Germany domestically. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person.

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1937, he says John Foster was impressed by a man who from, quote, humble beginnings, has attained the unquestioned leadership of a great nation. He also stated in 1939, Foster did that Germany's position is morally superior to that of the Allies. Alan Dulles met face to face with Hitler

in Hitler's Berlin office in March of 1933. He was ostensibly on a fact-finding mission to Europe for President Roosevelt, but was particularly interested in determining what the rise of Hitler meant for his law forms corporate interests. I disagree with the author on that. He probably already knows by this point what the firm's interests are in Germany if he's been doing business with them for years. He was also impressed with Joseph Goebbels.

Okay, so Pete, remember when we talked about, how a lot of the people behind the American Liberty League. So this would be Henry Ford and Jack Morgan. And I read DuPont. I re-du-Ponts a longtime funder of hard-right politics in the United States. This is the businessman. This is right at the time of the businessman's plot, so to speak. Right, when these men, the, the, um, and the Rockefeller brothers, obviously, these men were also, what I mean like these men, so like Morgan, Ford, and, um, what's his name? Townsend? No. Thomas, um, Pilo, you found the, the, I remember after talking to you about, um, this gentleman, um, Tomlumont, there we go. Anyways.

these men were sending several fact-finding missions to three of the fascist nations at the exact same time. So I would be disappointed if I found out that Alan Dulles was on a state-funded fact-finding mission in the Third Reich, and he was not also doing the exact same thing as in, you know, legal capacity, even though he was there on the behest of, you know, Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the administration, he was also a, he was also the attorneys for a lot of these men and representatives, and sorry, was their representative of their interests in Europe anyways. So to think that Alan Dulles was not on a similar fact-finding mission in relationship to how these fascist governments came about, how they thwarted a communist revolution and instead brought in something new. Because at the same exact time, Morgan and Irie DuPont are spending six million or six or seven million dollars, the equivalent of like,

you know, at the time, four or five billion dollars today, sending, you know, groups of people, all with varying expertise, historians, this linguists, not like propaganda, and, like, media wasn't a thing yet. So you got, like, they sent writers, they wanted, like, messaging. Like, these guys were actively studying fascism and how to bring it about. out at the exact same time as Alan Dulles is on a fact-finding mission in the Third Reich. The lawyer that represents all of these men in their business capacity back in the States. There's no way he was not doing the exact same thing.

I'm sure he told Roosevelt he was fact-finding some other shit. What do you know about the Bank for International settlements? A lot. Okay, because that's coming up next is that... I bet it is. One of Dulles' most important contacts was a guy called Thomas McKittrick, who was a Wall Street friend of his, who was the president of the bank for international settlements. What was he the president of before that? I'd have to look it up if you know offhand.

A bank and financial institution you'd have heard of. I don't know if he was president of. Lee Higginson and co Yes Okay Which would now be C and company So Bank of International Settlements my friends

Is a sovereign nation They issue their own passports They have diplomatic immunity They have diplomatic cable immunity They are for all intent and purpose diplomatically and otherwise a sovereign entity. They're as much of a country as Liechtenstein is, even though they're just a building.

What is it like 14 or 15 floors? So they get to do, you know, diplomatic stuff, as in like move people to places, move things from place to place. without them being interfered with the Bank of International settlements got a lot of the Nazi leader the person

I can't prove this but I believe like my favorite you know SS upper crustman um on

over group and furor Hans Kamler, the man that was in charge of the Kamelershtat, the 50 square miles in Poland that Los Alamos and the Manhattan Project and later DARPA were based on. His, the accounts of his death are really, really, really, really sketchy. But I know a lot of other Nazi leadership below on over, group, and furor. they got out of the country through the BIS. This is actually where the fondness where Argentina came from.

It was that BIS's... I believe they were restructuring the central bank of Argentina at the end of the war anyways. But between that and Dulles' work in Italy with propaganda duet.

To ballpark, we're talking about thousands of Third Reich officers and bureaucrats of various levels, like actual party people, got out of the country because of Alan Dulles. Paperclip was just a drop in a bucket of what he was doing. We didn't just take scientists. Thanks to Alan Dulles, we took hundreds of thousands of people out of the Third Reich

before the Soviets put them in camps and shopped. them. So for anyone that says that Alan Dulles isn't down for the cause, a great risk to himself, both physically in post-World War to Berlin and professionally, he made it a priority of Sullivan and Cromwell and all of the businesses that Sullivan and Cromwell represented that were in there. I know it came out that a lot of, I think it was like four or five, relatively high ranking, not super-duper high rankings. Again, those people are all, you know, on lists, came out when IBM pulled its people out. And I believe the same for Standard Oil. He was also the one that set up that leaned on Rome heavily using the BIS because the BIS was doing the banking for the

papacy, I believe at the time, and through the leverage provided, or basically through the leverage that the BIS had over Rome, made the Catholic Church down for the cause, even though they weren't super down for the cause. of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person.

So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash northwest. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savour festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails and dance the night away with DJs from love tempo. Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at giddlestorhouse.com.

Get the Factsby Drinkaware, visitdrinkaware.com. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card when with options card you can have both. With options card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a spend anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage.

There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding Visit Optionscarg.com.I.E. Today. But yeah, BIS is a diplomatic entity, Farlow. Now, everybody thinks it's just a bank. Yeah, I can go a little bit more into their specific operations leading into World War II.

So they were five of its directors for BIS were later at the end of the war, charged with war crimes. That was IG Farben and one of the ones. Let's see here. The secretive BIS became the crucial financial partner for the Nazis. The vice president of the Reichsbank, Emil Poole, who was a close associate of McKittrick, once called BIS, the Reichs Bank only, the only foreign branch. It was responsible for a lot of the Nazi gold management within Switzerland.

one thing is that BIS is located within Switzerland. That's not a coincidence. All the kind of, that kind of like tripe fraying that like all phrasing that all the Nazi gold is in Switzerland, accumulated during the war. I would presume that that's because of BIS. Dulles is very, very close to McKittrick at the start and continuing through the war. And both Dulles and McKittrick are not popular with either FDR's Inner Circle or FDR's Treasury Secretary Henry Morgan Thau.

And there was a time where the Roosevelt administration moved to block Bank for International Settlement Funds within the United States. McKittrick hired Foster Dolis as the legal counsel who successfully intervened on the bank's behalf. Morgan Thoub was outraged in the winter of 1942 when McKittrick made a business trip to the United States and was warmly welcomed by Wall Street. These are the executives of several corporations such as General Motors and Standard Oil. They had profited from doing business with the Nazis, and a banquet was held for McKindrick's honor at the New York University Club on December 17th.

Morgenthau then tried to prevent McKendrick from exiting the United States to return to BIS headquarters in Switzerland on the grounds that the bank was very clearly aiding the Nazi war effort. Vice versa, Alan Dulles came to McKittrick's rescue and was able to get him on an April 1944 flight to Europe. If you know about aviation at the time, it is very, very hard to fly transatlantic during World War II. You need a lot of permissions to do that. Dulce and McKittrick continued to work closely for the rest of the war. They, what is this?

Project Safe Haven. Morgan Thau's Treasury Department, which was trying to confiscate a lot of the wealth of the Nazis, Dulles and McKittrick within OSS and BIS respectively, worked to protect Nazi commodity interests after the war. And Dulles believed that a lot of these powerful German figures should be returned to political power within the post-war period. One interesting thing at the end of the war as an anecdote is that Alan Dulles, when peace with Germany, when kind of the overall, this is like after the war but pre-Norrenberg, Dulles is advocating for a restoration of many Nazi officials within Germany.

He doesn't want the Germans to unconditionally and fully surrender and then be for whatever were in criminally charged which at Nuremberg is just bullshit um a lot of you know mickitrich and the bank of international settlements had a lot of problems with uh morganthau essentially looting germany and my earlier stream with uh forestall on you know morganthau wanted germany left destitute it's obvious that morgan thou's treasury was going to seize that wealth for jewish interests away from major German corporations. So throughout the war, it seems that there's this,

this kind of behind the seams financial war between BIS and other banking interests behind the Roosevelt administration. That's interesting. I wonder if any of that gold that they would have tried to take would have made it to, would have actually made it to the destinations, as they said, or if it would get lost.

because I, for a long time, basically viewed it as, well, Morgan Thau's attempt at trying to get at the gold just to be another, you know, looting attempt that these people are quite famous for. Because at this point, the Germans have accumulated quite a bit of gold and quite a bit of property, as far as rare art, things like that. the BIS was actually kind of critical in keeping a lot of that stuff hidden.

Majority of the gold never got, well, I'm assuming maybe CIA has it. I don't know. But Dulles is, I mean, so often, and not just astral. I hope he listens to this. it's not just astral i have to constantly argue this point with but i have to argue this point with a lot like a lot of accounts there are people that like refuse to believe that this guy was anything other than a shit lib at best and a regime collaborator at worst i mean is that that point is untenable i don't know what your thoughts are philo but is there any way to read what the documents that you've

gone through and remotely see Alan Dulles has anything other than extremely sympathetic, if not outright, supportive of the Third Reich? I don't think there's... I mean, there's not another way to look at it, especially with this David Talbot

book. If I didn't have access to the other sources, it would be a little trickier. What about Reinhard Gayland? Let's talk about him. I'd have to look him up. Hold on. I got you. Reinhard Gailen was the head of Nazi intelligence.

Oh, I have something on him, I hear. Yeah. Reinhardt Gaelin. He didn't just preserve Gailen. He didn't keep Gailen out of the noose. He kept the entire National Socialist intelligence apparatus intact because he said he needed a fight. Because now, like Patton's, like Patent,

like Patton had already figured out for him. Actually, it's not that, you know, oh, we found out later that we were going to be at war with the Soviets next or that the Soviets weren't our friends. And this was a surprise. Almost everyone in the American establishment, the military defense establishment, they knew this from the beginning of World War II. What they couldn't stop is an administration. that was sympathetic to the communists. At no point in time did we think that you were either a communist collaborator inside the U.S. government, which Roosevelt and really stims in his whole team very much was,

or you basically knew that these people were going to be our enemy immediately afterwards. And by afterwards, I don't mean the end of World War II. I mean, as soon as we can get this fucking guy FDR at office. I think there was absolutely no illusions of that. So the entire administration, hold on one second. I have a source pulled up for Galen once Storm is ready.

Cat removal. Exactly, cat removal. She doesn't get to hang out anymore. She's lost her inside privileges. I was told that like that men that have cats are men that get women and men that don't

don't I surely hope so because the value proposition is significantly diminished if that's not the case It's absolutely 100% true I think so I have a wife and a cap but they were a packaged deal I hope so you're actually lucky then

I wouldn't say it was luck I would because you didn't have a cap before so you obviously didn't understand women so I would say luck is probably accurate that, you know, she was dumb enough to marry you. You're a very lucky guy. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest.

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packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, And best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCart.orgh.E. today. I would say that. Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah, Richard Galen, I have a little, Reinhard Galen, excuse me. So, funny little anecdote about him. He was at the 1951 World Series with his CIA handler. And he went there because one of his advisors was some kind of autistic savant

who had memorized all these different baseball statistics. and, you know, understanding Reinhardt Galen. So during the war, Galen had served as Hitler's intelligence chief on the eastern front of the Lemndhiost apparatus. They were looking for weaknesses in the Soviet defenses. Let's see here. So he was in charge of extracting a lot of the intelligence out of the Soviet prisoners of war, and he eventually rose upward to become a major general. The big deal with him was that at the end of the war,

when he was realizing that the Germans were beat, he concluded that the U.S. Soviet alliance that was temporary during the war would split and that some of the Nazi hierarchy would be able to survive by journeying forces with the West against Moscow. out. That's very common. A lot of Germans, very intelligent. There's a story about a fighter pilot, a German ace, who flew into an American airbase in German, you know, as the Americans controlled parts of Germany. And a lot of high-ranking people would much rather, you know, work with the Americans and then get killed by the Soviets. That was the blunt alternative of it. Because he went around, to the Bavarian Mountains at the end of the war, he was able to bury cases of microfilm containing Nazi intelligence in the Soviet Union. He then leveraged his expertise and connections within Eastern Europe, built up during the Eastern Front offensive to convince U.S. military

officials that he was indispensable. So he, unlike other German captives who get temporarily interned within the U.S. Midwest or worse yet, sent to B.S. tribunals, He got transported out on a DC3, and he was moved into comfortable corridors at Fort Hunt, Virginia. And there he was introduced personally to Alan Dulles, who decided on the spot to bring Mr. Gellin into U.S. government operation. So they were then sent back to Germany in the service of the United States, and they were centered in Pulak, a village near Munich. and that began to loss them into the Gellon organization, which was

then West Germany's principal intelligence agency. In 1948, the CIA then takes over the supervision of the Gellon organization from the U.S. Army, and it becomes very clear. You know, Gellin promised the army officials. He wouldn't hire anybody from the SS or Gestapo, but of course, as it grows and you need the most

competent people. Those are the most competent men. So he hires all these different SS figures, and especially as they're starting to get released from U.S. Army detainment after the war in the late 1940s. They're getting hired. Some people within the CIA wanted to liquidate Gellon's operation, but it was shielded by Dulles. His backing was primarily from the Dulles faction in 1948. you know, the person directly put in charge of monitoring all of Gellon's activities at the CIA in Munich was a direct appointee by Dulles, and that this individual concluded that Gellon's Intel organization is performing phenomenally with 200 top staff and their wives and children living in this intelligence compound outside Munich.

and the decor of the main facility had a lot of Nazi adornment on the building, which if you know anything about the denazification programs, that was exceptionally rare they went throughout Germany, destroying every Nazi symbol they could find. And the Germans and Americans that were working together at this installation in the early history of the CIA grew very close. The Germans and Americans working together there, their families were going on skiing trips in the Bavarian Alps.

Let's see, where do I go from here? This overriding goal, Gellon's goal, was to rebuild the Nazi power network and return Germany to a dominant role on the European stage. One interesting thing to know, as Thomas brings up occasionally, is that it was made illegal to be right-wing after Nuremberg in 1945. and it was exceptionally illegal to be a Nazi in Germany.

Let's see, what am I else? Everybody, all the Americans, from what I can tell in the CIA documentation that worked with Gellon, had very positive opinions of him to the point where they facilitated him going to the 1951 World Series because Gellon's aide liked baseball. And what else was there? The 1951 trip to America was, Gellon was given the code name utility, which I think is very interesting. So he's very good at what he does. And he also, on October 8, 1951, during this trip to the United States, Gellin also attends a private dinner club with Germans and several CIA officers, as well as Richard Helms, who had run the U.S. intelligence operations.

in Germany after the war and also succeeds Dulles after his resignation in the early 1960s. Let's see. Yeah, so Dulles, interestingly enough, had invited Gellon to all of his different clubs, the Metropolitan Club, the Chevy Chase Club. Any time that the German spymaster visits Washington,

Dulles has this kind of open-door policy. That's not unique to just his relationship. relationship with Gellon. He's also, like throughout his life, Dulles is very open with how he's meeting people. What happens to this Gellon organization? In 1955, they are, let's see, late-1954, Dulles gets Gellon's eldest daughter into a good U.S. college. and then so she gets admitted to Hunter College in New York City this is like totally unprecedented for the time to have this

tight of a relationship in 195 as the CIA prepares to transfer the Gellon organization back to the West German government the agency generously gave him enough money to buy a lakeside estate and they Gellon purchased

allegedly. It was probably more likely a gift of about a $50,000 estate. Gellon's code name for Dulles was the gentleman. Gellon wrote in his memoir, in all the years of my collaboration with the CIA, I had no personal disputes with Dolan. He pleased me by his air of wisdom,

born of years of experience. He was both fatherly and boisterous, and he became a close personal friend. of mine. What other items are here? Whenever Gellon saw the U.S. government policy about the Soviet Union was beginning to soften or weaken in its rhetoric, the Gellon organization would decry it. And, you know, the Soviet Union, Gellon said that the Soviet Union enticed you with this

and that, but underneath its skirt, one will see the cloven hoof of the devil. What else is there? Alan Dulles had a soft spot in his heart for the good Germans. J. Edgar Hoover was also present. What other items are there? I think that's kind of all that I have to say on Gellon. He was extremely active as a West German spymaster and that he was worried about kind of the softening also of Germany.

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There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use, and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit OptionsCard.i.e. today. And his intelligence reports, because let's keep in mind, the after Rose, and I think, again, the more and more I think back, and I tie back different things. Like, I haven't thought about Gellin in forever. But it reminded me that the CIA, ever since Dulles was pushed out of the agency he created by a man by the name of, who I've been, screaming about for some time, but has now recently come back into the spotlight with the

JFK document releases. One James Jesus Angleton. If you want to know who pushed Alan Dulles out of the CIA, it was James Jesus Engleton shortly before JFK was murdered. J.F.K. did not have any of K's beef with Dulles or with the CIA had very little to do with Dulles, had nothing to do with Vietnam, or the Bay of Pigs even. The Bay of Pigs wasn't a failure. All of the guns that were supposed to be going to the Bay, to the Cuban resistance fighters were actually being stolen for Israel out of a shipping and, what should call it company, import export company out of Virginia.

And Alan got word of it. Literally, I believe, I think, the night before the day before, and went to Kennedy with it. So Kennedy knew why the Bay of Pigs was a failure. He didn't, neither of them knew in time to stop it, but guess it was in charge of the Bay of Picks, James Jesus Engleton, along with all the other stuff that he did. But not to get sidetracked, like, there was no daylight really between Dulles and JFK

except for nuclear disarmament. He went way over the top. Really, to be honest, I don't think a lot of us. today, realize how much we probably would have disliked JFK. If he had lived, he probably would have gone down as a Jimmy Carter, but dumber. He was so serious about nuclear disarmament after the Cuban Missile Crisis. He was having back-channel conversations with Khrushchev about both countries' nuclear disarmament, you know, intentions.

And both men agreed that the priorities of the Soviet Union and the priorities of America needed to be nuclear force reduction and eventual disarmament. And Khrushchev obviously saying he's going to get a lot of pushback and whatever. That's why they had to use back channels, just the two of them. So like not Soviet back channels and not like American back channels, but like JFK familial relationships talking to Khrushchef familial relationships outside. of their own intelligence agencies and national apparatuses.

Kennedy was going to start disarming first as a show of goodwill. Like, oh yeah, well, let's get rid of our nukes. And that's how you'll know we're legit. If you have trouble selling it to the rest of the Politburo, it'll be much easier when we just get rid of our own nukes. and Alan got wind of this and so did the Pentagon type people and basically that's where the static came from

which is also where a lot of the static between JFK and David Ben-Gurion came from because you know, trying to disarm the Soviets only to find out that nuclear armament, rapid armaments happening in Israel from all the shit that they stole from you. So that's where the beef was.

was all of the stuff that you've read about Delis and JFK, dear listeners, is bullshit almost in its entirety because if you talk about nuclear, if you talk about what the real disconnect was, you're going to land on Israel because it's all about disarm, it's all about nuclear nonproliferation. Sorry. Corey Hughes's book is probably the best on it. I think he did a recent podcast with Astral, and the one he did with Jake Shields is really good. At least like the last 15 minutes talks exactly about what we're talking about now and cites all the sources. And his research is really impossible to argue with.

And he basically tells you exactly what the relationship is with Douglas and JFK, and it's not what you're told. This is also why he went on the Warren Commission. So like after the death of JFK and Lyndon Johnson, all right, so if you're Alan Dulles, the guy that's been openly supportive of the Third Reich, you and your brother openly hostile the state of Israel, you and the now previous dead president were in the process of trying to stop nuclear armed proliferation by the state of Israel that stole the nuclear materials. There's like 10 guys that know what the actual story is, and the guy with all the political power, JFK, is dead, and a person who is an actual traitor and pussy whipped by a Ergun terrorist is in the White House. And Jewish power has just, like, wiped off the face of the earth,

JFK and very little attention gets given to outside of JFK and RFK about the, I don't know, a dozen and a half, two dozen other people that were in lower positions, but also had all of the same information and the same exact idea of like, oh, this needs to be stopped. There's probably about 20 assassinations in the JFK assassination. So if you're Alan Dulles and you're in your 70s or like late 60s, what the fuck you're going to do? You're going to be an old man that has an accident,

which is what I'm assuming he was told, because the day after JFK's assassination, Allen had already been pushed out of the CIA by a, whatever I'm trying to think of the term for it. If it was geopolitical, I'd call it a false flag. But planting of evidence and fuckery by Engleton, his subordinate, he basically set up a little mini-private CIA out of his living room with all the guys that got pushed out by Engleton

and a bunch of guys still at the agency, trying to figure out what the fuck had happened. And as soon as LBJ got into, that fucking White House. Somebody apparently had a conversation with Alan and he closed up shop immediately. So it's not like they didn't know what's happening. It's not like they didn't try and push back. But at that point in time, they have all the cards.

Like, yeah, at that point in time, resistance to organize Zionism was impossible. Well, and the building up of it as well, like, uh, For your call from the Forrestall stream, LBJ met with Forrestall in the mental hospital, along with all the other pro-Zionist elements that were in Truman's administration at the time. And that was in 1948, 1949. Oh, yeah, it was open season on anybody that was against the Zionist agenda. And they had all the political power to basic, and you had what's his fucking face in the Supreme Court. like they could basically torment you out in public and there was nothing you could do about it.

That was a real dark period of time. There was an interesting, I guess there's three different angles. I could kind of go, I'm going to start with the Angleton one and then go into Israel and also nuclear, I suppose. To know about Angleton, he was the... Do you ever find that monument I told you about? Yeah, I have it. I pulled up as you were talking about it. Yeah, I can tell you.

Isn't that fucking weird? All right. So for those who don't know, within, so it's located at Rehov, Belay, Yorez, at Yemen, Moshe. So this is a place that is immediately adjacent to the King David Hotel, which I think is very strange. It's in the, it's located at all these key, like a park complex, very close to Mount Zion. And also next to like these large, the Monachem Beacon Heritage Center, which is interesting. But he has this little corner in this park and to know about it. The park is located in a spot.

I'm getting this off of the Jerusalem Foundation website. The park is located in a spot. Angleton visited and admired in the early 1960s when it bordered on the barbed wire fence that divided the city. The project was initiated by the then mayor of Jerusalem, Teddy Kolic, the defense minister Yitzhak Rabin, who later became the prime minister and then was assassinated. And also the head of the shin bet, Amos Manol. And the shin bet is the, that's like the FBI equivalent within Israel. So there's the Mossad, which is kind of the CIA equivalent, and then the shin bet is FBI.

this little corner for Angleton is one of four small memorial gardens another one is the Rothschild Rothschild sitting corner so the location there is very is very talent

I mean it is like it's the nearest park over to the King David which if you know about the history of Israel that was where the I think the Ilgun blew up the a hotel to kill a lot of British soldiers prior to Israel being created. Yeah, and they're big into something called

a practice called geomancy. Yeah, yep, yep. This is true. Personal experience on this. Like, there's four, not getting to a cult, there's four cities within Israel that each correspond to elements and the mysticism. there and they're like...

Yeah, demon shit. But I don't want to... Anyway, the last thing I'll say about... I mean, kind of the first, there's so many things to say about this. The joke in Israel when I was there was that there was a textile factory in Damona. And that was code for the nuclear site. So it's an open secret that when Israel was getting its nuclear arsenal, that was set up at Damona in Israel.

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sold separately, terms apply for more info he's got out of e-slash beads um and then golly okay so that's the israel stuff that's engleton um i can kind of go who is um who is the person that uh got caught but um whose apprehension was deliberately thwarted by one james jesus angleton right so the one of the interesting intelligence documents that came out what i didn't know because i knew about like all the angleton and stuff, just from, like, you know, like, um, stories I would hear. And what I did not know is that James Jesus Engleton without, um, I'm almost, I can guarantee that Alan Dulles was unaware of this, but James went to the FBI and told the FBI that Alan

wants him in charge of everything is real and Israeli intelligence. Because at this point, and that everything that the FBI collects, should be brought to him directly, not through like the other official channels, because the FBI had channels with the CIA. And if they, you know, we're working on, you know, come across some counterintelligence stuff. Like, oh, FBI thinks that like these people are a bunch of fucking spooks. okay we'll go tell the guys that are our spooks okay like they have official channels for that

angleton wanted it to not like that he said on orders of alan dulles directly from the top we're not to bring any of the israel stuff and any of the stuff that you guys find on you know any suspected Israeli intelligence agents operating in the u.s that needs to come directly to me and I am going to bring it right to Alan directly because we think there's a mole. Well, so what was James Jesus Angleton's job? What gave him this free reign? Why was he this person with that, you know,

out of pocket all the fucking time? He's the principal agency liaison for the foreign intel services. Yeah, but he was also the per, at the time, at the time, the CIA knew that they had a mole and someone was giving something to the Soviets. It was somebody who was giving information to the Soviets. Guess who a person other than Alan Dulles, but I believe a genuinely good person, not an evil person,

he suggested one James Jesus Engleton to be the person that finds the mole. Except for James Jesus Engleton was an asset for Israeli intelligence. Like, well, that's not Soviet intelligence, is it? Except it was. We didn't have a Soviet mole. We had an Israeli mole. And Israel, the nation, was our Soviet mole.

Because James Jesus Engleton, at the end of every single day, would spend two hours talking to a florist that had a that whose shop was on his walk home. Nobody fucking suspected that. Like, nobody bothered to, hey, a, there's a florist

owned by a foreign national. And the mole hunter of the CIA, hunting a, like, he stops by this same florist, and talks for two hours every day. And James doesn't have any fucking flowers. He doesn't even have plants at his house. Where the fuck is he talking?

Nobody asked these questions. But anyways, so the person who he was talking to, I can't remember his name, but I believe he would later become head of Israeli intelligence for a period of time. but the person that got, sorry, was the person that almost got arrested by the FBI, but James Jesus Engleton stepped in and stopped the FBI arresting him when caught stealing Krytron triggers from, you know, the naval docks in California,

or Southern California, was one BB Netanyahu. young BB was the person that stole the other half of the nuclear bomb and he would have gotten caught because the FBI had him pretty well stitched up they also had Demona pretty well stitched up and the only reason Benjamin Ettingyahu wasn't on the front page of every fucking newspaper in the country was James Jesus Angleton kind of like your little quip about like oh I there was a time like, you know, I should have taken that meeting. I would have saw Lenin and I could have put a bullet in his face. Imagine what the world would have been like if Benjamin Netanyahu was still rotting away in some fucking Gitmo place. And the last, I don't know,

20 years, 30 years didn't happen. It's hard to tell. They wouldn't have the resources to pull it Jonathan Pollard and get him extradited. That whole ability to do espionage. would be neutered. Can I flesh out a little more spiritual stuff for... The Lekidna would have lost their guy. Yeah. Anyways, sorry.

I think it's interesting because what was the party? I don't want to screw up with my Zionist history here, but there's a reason I think Yitzhak were being commissioned a statue when he was defense chief, not prime ministered defense chief of England.

A political party? In Israel? Lakut? Shit. Is that? Yeah. Or are you talking about the opposition party that was only in office one time? So generally it was like broadly leftist until 1977.

It was Mapayao Ovidah. And then they switched in 1977 to Monachem Begin. And they've been like pretty much solidly Lakud ever since. So yeah, Rabin is. Yeah, it's been a one party state ever since. sense. Yeah. They, they, they split hairs domestically about this, but yes, for the purposes of the coalition, it is a one-party state. Is that any different than what they do in the United States? No. What really is the difference between a Democrat and a Republican? What really is it?

Like, oh, these are the things that we're going to debate fiercely on and make it look like we hate each other and we disagree about everything. But in fact, we agree about everything and we pretend to disagree loudly about this thing and we only do it in front of you. At least the Reich didn't, um, you know, fake it. At least they said all that their parties are illegal. You're either with us or you're against us. Because it always devolves down to this. Always. Yeah. Yeah. I'd like to flesh a little bit more circumstantial stuff about it, uh, Angleton and then get into like agency structure. Um, Angleton was put in charge of the CIA's relationship with the FBI. There was a

big rivalry at this time between FBI and CIA. Engleton was also pursuing a CIA partnership with the mafia. Who are some of these people that were getting involved with? According to this, Engleton's work also brought him into close contact with the agency's rougher characters,

including Chef Edwards's security cops who helped install his bugs, and Bill Harvey, who was prominent in a number of the agencies, assash the nation jobs. Angleton, shortly after Fidel Castro,

took power in Havana. He summoned two Jewish CIA officers, including Sam Halpern, who had been assigned to the agency's Cuba team, and the other one isn't mentioned. And then both of them

were flown to Miami and set to meet with Meyer Lanski, who'd been forced to flee Havana ahead of the revolutionaries. Lansky was part of the Jewish mob, but had close business tests in the Italian mafia. Angleton told Halpern and the other Jewish

CIA agent to see if they could convince Lansky to arrange for the assassination of Castro. It's kind of overblown at this point, but people like to talk, especially in the left, about how many times the agency tried to kill Castro by like pouring stuff in

his drink and giving him an explosive cigar or whatever else the deal was. But I did not know that Angleton was so prominently involved with this. Yeah, Corey Hughes also documents kind of conclusively that all of that stuff about us trying to assassinate Castro was bullshit. If you hear the, I mean, and when he says it, you're like, that's not true. And then you think about it, if you know anything about how propaganda works, you're like, oh, fuck. God damn it.

Like, whenever you hear public, like, that there's, I mean, if it's like a cultural meme about like the silly cartoonish, loony tunes, acme fucking exploding cigar things that the CIA tried to do to kill Castro, that should tell you that the CIA is lying to you. Yeah, absolutely. Just off rip. They were, the CIA after Dulles, I mean, they made it illegal to be right wing after Nuremberg and after Dulles, they made it policy in the CIA.

The only reason that fucking bearded fuck lived as long as he did is because of the CIA. They've been a fucking leftist institution ever since, ever since Dulles. Once the wasps were purged, everything in that involves foreign policy out of the United States is leftist. If it's an institution that deals with anything outside of our borders, after Dulles. And I guess you say maybe, maybe, no, even so. Now, after Dulles and the executive branch is already fucking compromised, second Nixon starts to try and do his own foreign policy, nobody told, nobody gave him an update. Like, oh, by the way, we only do leftist's shit internationally. Second, he tries to conduct his own foreign policy, you've got to go. It would

It's been a leftist institution ever since. CIA is basically a total loss now. Is this a good time to bring up a secret team by Fletcher Prouty? It's always a good time to talk about the secret team. Okay, sure. It's an important thing for people to know. So everyone should pay attention to this bit because it still applies today. Just because a person is doing fuckery out of agency X,

does not mean that they are an agency X person, and that is an agency X agenda. Sure. They may be from somewhere else. So there's two interesting points before I start here. The first is that something you can Google when you find the CIA reading room is that there's a reading list for all of the different introductory officers to the agency. and that they have to read a lot about the agency's history, but particularly they have to read about the OSS. And if you know about the OSS,

you'll know that there's a bit of a delineation between, like, intelligence collection that the agency is doing and covert operations that the OSS is doing. And another thing to bear in mind about this information, because the book I'm referencing was published in 1970, is that prior to the mid-1970s, the agency did not button up all of its top-secret information as tightly as it does now. Currently, if something is classified within the agency, you're not going to ever get your hands on it.

But back in the day, in the 40s, 50s and 60s, because there's this big confluence of different agencies and the CIA is still forging its identity, and clawing resources away from other federal departments, there's kind of missed overlaps of compartmentalization for security or clandestine reasons. So that's how someone like L. Fletcher Prouty can exist and also that he can present the information that he does in a way where it's not censored. So to understand who this man was, L. Fletcher Proudy worked as the focal point officer for contacts between CIA and DoD on matters pertaining to the military support of the agency's special operations. He personally worked with Alan Dulles and John Foster Dulles.

He recommends a series of books. I have some of them, not all of them. but he says that there's only a handful of books that really tell the true story of the agency. There's an interesting inference to one of Dolis's famous quotes starting right off the bat from Proudy. The first is that Alan Dolis is quoted as saying that intelligence is about 10% real intel and the other 90% or so is clandestine operations. what that sets up for Proudy is that Dulles believes that the agency is operating around the world all the time countering all aspects of the invisible war. What this means is essentially intervening in the internal affairs of other nations without their knowledge or their permission, beginning in both Berlin and Iran in the late 9th, 1940s and continuing all the way through until Vietnam that Proudy argues began as a major intelligence operation.

Much of what the Central Intelligence Agency, as it is today, has become because of Alan Dulles. So to understand the overall function of it, one document in my research that I pulled up was something called the Dulles Jackson Correa report. It's from 1949, and it follows the official creation of the agency after the National Security Act of 1947. That's the document that formally creates it, but it's very specific. It's very compartmentalized in the functions that it grants for the intelligence operations. Previously, it was something that was done under direct supervision under the Joint Chiefs of Staff. to go back to Forrestall, you'll see that the intelligence capacities of the War Department were very explicitly by Forrestall recommended as Secretary of Defense to be directly supervised by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

What this Dulles Jackson Correa report that primarily Dulles writes and is put out on January 1st of 1949 is that this is like the blueprint how I as head of CIA am going to set up design and internalize the agency's responsibilities for it to function in exactly the manner that I wish it to function as, not as it is explicitly set up in previous government documentation in the National Security Act of 1947. Just make that complex point very simple. the federal government in the late 1940s after World War II transitions from OSS to CIA. Through it, it goes through a series of bureaucratic processes.

It gets stymied, it gets changed, congressman at various points, edit it, alter it. The agency is in a big period of transition. So there's four directors of central intelligence before Dulles, but it's essentially this underutilized government agency. until Dulles writes this plan, publishes it in 1949, and that as he presents it to Truman, it's essentially, oh, your audio is coming through, Stormy.

My bad. It's all good. It's all good. The Dulles-Jackson-Corre report then comes out. It's now Dulles' agency. He is appointed after Korea, after the Korean War, as kind of an intelligence failure to run and oversee this. And that is where, sorry, I'm like really overcomplicating this because there's just so much detail.

So, okay, the Dulles Jackson-Corre report was the CIA's mind comp. Dulles describes exactly how he's taking this from a low-key intelligence coordination center to a major power center in the U.S. government, and he can therefore position himself as the closest advisor to the president. So the function of this secret intelligence organization is to have a top echelon operations facility at the White House level, a hidden infrastructure throughout other departments and agencies of the government, and also the greatest operational capability all over the world. So when you read about Cold War era agency facilities, they're located everywhere on the planet. And so how this comes to be done from Dulles is that in the report in 1949, he recommends a daily 24-hour briefing being presented to the president and that the best information and actionable and operationalized intel should be collaborated on and presented solely by the CIA for the reception of the president. Now, why something as bureaucratic as that matters is that the agency has direct control over what the president sees,

and therefore they are the only organization in a position to set forth the response to the intelligence. So Intel comes in, the CIA produces it, they recommend a plan of action to the president, the president signs off on it, the CIA executes it. It's a cycle. And that is what establishes the agency into the most powerful organization in the United States government outside of the DOD, because the DOD does not have such direct access to the president. They have to go through the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which is much more of a council and which is much more hierarchical and is generally presumed to be and assigned to be. nonpartisan. But the CIA has no such limitations. So let's see here.

What is there to glean from this? Proudy is monitoring the agency. So, okay, so you've created all these different departments, and the agency has control in the ear of the president but what happens when the president wants to derive information from DOD? Well, the agency can just put somebody in the DOD. And if that sounds insane, I'm going to give a real-world example. The way that the agency operationalized its offensive capabilities was by working with

a Crowdy as a focal point officer. So he has to sign off on all the special operations. And the agency itself, yes, it can purchase. planes, but imagine if you have a CIA pilot, a CIA, you know, team of operatives, you have a CIA electronics warfare or like decoder on that plane, and that plane gets shot down, well, now you're fucked because the enemy country can look at it and see that, you know, you can't have an ID in one of those guys' pocket that says CIA. It has to have something else. So they would either use foreign governments or they would use DOD.

Now, for the DOD to have fake members created for the agency, that requires DOD approval of the creation of those operatives. So the way that the U.S. government, and in particular the CIA, conducted offensive operations, was they would have this like a DC-6 or like a DC-3, a Douglas aircraft, which is a fairly large aircraft at the time, propeller-driven. they would make everyone in there a member of the Department of Defense. They would have ID. They would have rank.

They would have uniforms. They would have all U.S. Army or U.S. Air Force, weaponry, and paperwork. But they would be Central Intelligence Agency. That would just be a cover. And the agency realized that if it could operationalize all these people all over the world to do everything from reconnaissance to regime change to covert operations, whatever espionage function, guiding and training local militias in country, why couldn't it just, you know, if you have a colonel flying the plane of a CIA aircraft and that man is a CIA agent, why couldn't you just

have someone in the Pentagon who's CIA? So I know that this is one of your core points, Stormy, with how the agency puts agency people in various positions of power. So do you have anything to add on that point. No, that was extremely detailed and not being, because he's just all that was actually great. Yeah, so I can, there's anything to add to that? So I can, so I can add on that.

So like, okay, so one other thing, let me, I'm just going to turn the lights on here. Perfect. Okay. So page 148 of, so, okay, so proudies in this position, and he's seeing all these DOD guys getting flown over the world that he knows are CIA. And ultimately it becomes a point of contention because at the time, I think he's a, he's a colonel, Fulverd Colonel. And I think you said something very interesting

on your last podcast, Stormy, which is that colonels are the ones who really make shit happen in the U.S. military. Generals are much more of like a political role, but if you want something to actually get done, right, I think both you and Pete have talked about this. Like there's Colonel McGregor. There's that other colonel who was also featured on Tucker talking about the Ukraine funding. So a lot of these on the ground guys are going to be lieutenant colonels and colonels. And so he sees this stuff on the ground. And what he's, let's see here, I have to pull a good point.

So I'll pull this as a direct quote so it's more coherent. during the past 20 years there have been many times when the Secretary of Defense or other military official has stated that the United States needed to go ahead with the development of a new bomber, a new submarine

or even a new missile system because intelligence had acquired information which indicated that the Russians had such a bomber submarine or missile. And if they develop it, then of course we find that we're behind the times.

so very very seldom are these facts about military information revealed to the public even to congressional committees and huge expenditures have been made on partial information why do I bring up

that kind of institutional point well because a lot of the information that guides procurement in Congress or guides DOD experimental technology development like Trump just announced the F-47. Well, for some accounts, it's been operational for the last five years.

DoD developed it because probably at some point, someone in the intelligence community wrote a briefing saying that the Russian and Chinese are developing more advanced fighter aircraft, right? So DoD would not have made that decision without agency advice. So to understand how the agency operationalizes its own intelligence, it's that there's monumental amount of raw political information out there. According to Dulles in tragedy and hope, Carol Quigley writes that Dulles said 10% of agency information is actually legitimately classified. 90% of it is open source intelligence information. So that's all stuff that you can publicly see through like reading newspapers or, you know,

just pulling a poster off a wall or reading a political dispatch or something in a government office. For the most part, like declassified information is what it works in. So if that is the case, using that information as a machine as a function to turn it into eventually and ask with that very small amount of classified information to become like a

DOD weapon system that requires the selective release and control and analysis of information. Let's see. It's Grace Jackson Report.

As General Dolovan Donovan and Alan Dolos had proposed the very success of secret intelligence would from time to time create its own requirements for subsequent clandestine operations for no more reason than the intelligence input had detected something somewhere. The legislators knew that clandestine operations would grow out of the findings of secret intelligence whether or not there was any national plan or policy to carry out in the first place. This is why the Donovan Dulles-Clifford School of Thought requires the existence, real or imagined, of a constant enemy, communism. With a constant enemy, every bit of secret intelligence that reveals the existence of communism is its own reason for the development of an operation.

Then the counterpunch becomes the action of a machine, not of minds. So I bring that up because the modern conception of how, the U.S. conducts espionage overseas and how it carries out covert operations, is that the U.S. like systematically went to every left-wing country in Latin and Central America and Eastern Europe and just, and Africa, and just like knocked them over needlessly. A lot of that was on clear intelligence of communism. And because this is very key, and it speaks to the anti-communist, like, pro-Nazi element of Dulles,

like the guys at the top were looking at the United States as the most powerful country in the world, which had poached the best possible espionage operatives from the Nazis, and we're now tooling them against the Soviet Union. So if you have the most powerful country with the best people, you would, want to leverage that as strongly as possible against the Soviet Union. And if you have the biggest stick on the block, why wouldn't you use it on every possible instance of communism that you could find in the world? The next part I would talk about would be the Guatemala and United Fruit Company stuff. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that stormy, but that's a bit

of a subject change. Yeah, we might have to save that for another day, to be honest. That's a whole other tangent. Sure. Yeah, that's a, I mean, that's a series unto itself. I think it's a good series because I think it's the last time the CIA was actually doing things that were for America. And anybody that thinks that it's just for, like, rich people and their overseas possessions, they don't understand how power works.

I have a good, a very specific incident on that point. There's a good inside look at the agency. from the mid-1970s by a biography of Richard Helms. At one meeting in 1961, this special group at the agency

discussed an incident in Singapore in which two CIA technicians have been arrested while trying to polygraph a potential recruit in Singapore's special branch of the national police. The polygraph operator

had literally tried to eat his graphs when he didn't like the result. So the prime minister at this point, the brand new league Kuan Yu was furious, and his anger only increased when an attempt was made to bribe him with $3 million in cash to drop charges against the CIA people. And there's a back and forth between at the time Bundy, who's Secretary of State, sorry, George Bundy, Kennedy's special assistant to this fucking title, special assistant to the president for national security affairs. Very arrogant

guy, more State Department than agency. He got into an argument with Dolos over this incident. Bundy wanted all future agency operations of this sort to be cleared in advance with him. Dulles refused to agree this was CIA's province, the very heart of its expertise. Bundy was in effect proposing that he be put in charge a foreign intelligence collection and that he was about to be entrusted with the identity of just about every agents in the CIA employee. employ. Dulles was not about to explain his objections to this young man. He just said no. Dulles's tone was almost courtly. Let's see. So Bundy says to Alan, you must realize this has a

political aspect to it. Dulles's tone was almost courtly. His voice soft, each word distinct. Yes, Mac, I do understand that there are some political aspects to this. Thank you very much for pointing this out to me. But Dulles knew how to say no, and Dulles knew how to say no. Dulles won. But that only brushes the surface of Dulles' underlying Flint. He was a hard ban. He did not shrink from ordering the assassination of foreign leaders, and as a general rule, his charm but not his power, stopped at the water's edge. At a State Department meeting about how to deal with Jamal Abdul Nassar, that's in the Egyptian president, I think, around 1956 and 1957, Dulles told a State Department officer, if that colonel of yours pushed

us too far, we will break him in half. The threat was not an idle one. Other national leaders who elicited the anger of the Dullis brothers did not survive. Muhammad Masadegh of Iran and Jacobo Arbenz of Guatemala. For those who don't know, in 1953, the CIA overthrows the Iranian government because Masadah nationalized Anglo-Iranian oil company. and I think they used Roosevelt's cousin or something for that one.

There's so many other sources with this. I haven't even touched tragedy and hope as well as shit, what's the other one? There's a couple other little stories I have about the agency. Kind of funnier, lighter ones. Sukarto was, I think, the president of Indonesia. in the 1960s, and the agency wanted him removed.

And the agency thought that the best thing they could do at the time was make a sex tape of Sukarto, because if they showed this sex tape to the Indonesian public, they would be scandalized about it because they were like a majority Muslim nation. So they got this, like, fat Mexican guy who looked like Sukarto to like fuck a prostitute. And then they took that recording and they sent it. to Indonesia and publicized it there. And the Indonesians thought it was Sukarto.

But in Indonesia, you're like a big man if you're like promiscuous. So the popularity for Sukarto actually increased in time. And it was another anecdote about the agency operations. I want to quickly illustrate the difference

between like how the United States and how Israel does things. Specifically. Hey, Phyllis. Yeah, go ahead. let's um let's do a part two yeah sounds good i know this is like this is a lot this is a lot yeah yeah because we're gonna we're gonna jump into something else and um and we could be like i said i think i started this off by saying i have a feeling we could go three hours and um if i

don't cut it off now i think we will and stormy has to jump too so um i will um yeah let's do that Thank you. Phyllos, do a quick plug. We'll get out of here. Yeah, I have a YouTube channel. Phyllis Miscellini. Not really active, but that's my plug. All right. Stormy, you want people to follow you on Twitter? Follow me on Twitter. That's the only thing I have. And next time, I will budget at least two hours. All right. Yeah, I think we're going to need it. All right, guys. I think this is enough for people to chew on for right now. It's important for people to know how intelligence actually works because it's such a meme that I think is kind of hurts people's understanding when they try and, you know, figure out what's going on. All right.

All right, guys. Have a good night. Thank you. All right, boys. Good night.