The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1196: Revolutionary Change and Reaction w/ Thomas777 and Dark Enlightenment

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

69 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer. DE is a researcher focusing on infrastructure.Pete had Thomas and DE on to discuss the reaction in Europe to a century (1816-1916) of technology and teleological change.DE's Telegram ChannelFundamental Principles PodcastThomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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forward slash support and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingones show. I have two frequent beloved guests here today. So Thomas, how are you doing? I'm well. Thanks for inviting me. Dee, how are you doing? I'm fantastic, man. Thanks for having me back. All right, Dee, this was your idea for a conversation. So have at it, man. Nicasa Sukasa. Thank you so much.

So everyone should totally check out, I mean, everything that Beaton Thomas have done together. But the Mosley series in particular, I found really fascinating just because, you know, Mosley shares a cultural milieu with us. And in I think episode four or five, you guys talked about the fascist international conference, the first one, first and only one. and we mentioned all the different nations that were there. And if you haven't read Paul Gottfried's fascism and the career of a concept, I think it's a really good book despite, you know, Dr. Gottfried being of the tribe, I believe he's an honest man. And it got me thinking that, you know, in 1916 at the Somme,

if he'd gone back a century to the Congress of Vienna, where Napoleon was, or the, you know, Hoppa recently called it a gentleman's piece, right? You have this where, despite firearms, most of the people in the world were still agricultural peasants. And despite advances in things like the McCormick Reaper Binder in the 1850s, or improved yields and crops and other things, right, like an agricultural peasant from like a Roman Latifundia would fundamentally understand like a guy

who was growing food in Mississippi in like 1855. But in the 19th century between the Somme and Vienna, you had cars, trains,

refrigeration, canning, telecommunications, in the telegraph and the telephone. I mean, just literally everything in normal life, everyday life, changed 100%. And in a very weird way, like World War I represents like the death of the old world.

And fascism is this opportunity. There's like there's three kind of semi-coherent ways to deal with this new change world that happens after the war, after the great war of capitalism, Bolshevism, and fascism. and really, to me, the only one that actually kind of makes coherent sense with, like, human beings as they are, that have particular loves and attachments and, you know, it doesn't destroy religion and whatever. Fascism was the one coherent way to actually address all these changes without, like, just rejecting them entirely.

There are people who will, you know, Larp as Catholic monarchists or whatever, and, like, we just need to go back to the way it was in the 13th century. like that's a nice thought but that ain't happening so i couldn't think of anybody better than thomas to like actually elucidate how fascism was this just very real attempt to grapple with the world as it now found itself and i think that people need to understand that like those are your alternatives right you can have bolshevism you can have judeo uh usurious capitalism or you can have some sort of state socialism and that's it. Well, it's also, it's important to consider, I think, I mean, I invoke the term capitalism

because just for intelligibility, and people like Schumpeter, they invoked it for the same reason, even though he didn't think that it was particularly useful as a descriptor in absolute terms, but, like, the important thing to keep in mind is that the new deal revolution. It was a revolutionary as what happened in Germany in 1933 or would it happen in the Soviet Union. Okay, like it wasn't, Roosevelt wasn't just this guy who was like, well,

you know, there's a structural crisis underway. So we needed an executive to step in and, you know, and kind of manage the crisis situation. Like the new deal was this top down ideology of retooling the entire way of living of, you know, millions and millions of people. people. And I make the point again and again that like what became the civil rights revolution, euphemistically, that started under Roosevelt, like forced racial integration, this kind of trying to forcibly strip people of their identitarian characteristics. You know, that was one of the kind of secondary imperatives, the military. draft was the kind of condition people towards those uh towards those imperatives you know so it wasn't um it wasn't this kind of like neutral administrative apparatus that was implemented but that also you know had sort of like a war profiteer's sensibility you know in terms of power political affairs

So that's fundamentally important. And it's not in, these people were very much adjacent, the communists. I mean, that's why they, it wasn't just that they hated the fascists and the national socialists. And it's not just that they were sympathetic to Zionism. Like, first and foremost, I, Roosevelt himself didn't particularly like Jews. I mean, that's just a fact. Like, his, his primary sympathy was for communism.

you know like in the in the view of people like him you know this is an inevitability this is the way the world is going you know and for context too because i've not the people do this day they still talk about guys like burnham as being neocons because you know in the 1920s they would they would bandy socialist ideas people don't understand that ontologically every single person thought that way because there'd been a total collapse of the nascent world economy. And in the absence of information tech, that situation is unmanageable. Like, laissez-faire is not possible in a true sense

if there's no such thing as situational awareness up to the moment. You know, really the situation kind of endured until the late 1980s. Like, the reason now, like, there's not true economic crises. Part of that is structural and part of that. has to do with the deep integration of capital. But primarily it's the elimination of uncertainty. I can tell you right this moment, like what's happening in European markets. Okay, even like 40 years ago, 30 years ago, I wouldn't know for hours.

You know, in the 1920s, I wouldn't know for days. So this idea that people, you know, who weren't inclined to, towards New Dealersism or towards communism or towards utopian socialism or whatever. They were just advocating status models of the planned economy or whatever, or that they were like bandying Keynesianism. They weren't doing that because, like, they had some ethical disposition in that way. It's because that's the way every single person thought. You know, if you started talking about laissez-faire economics,

people would have looked at you like you were an idiot or a crazy person. Like how would that even have worked? You know? So there's that. I tend to agree to change gears back to the main subject matter because that's kind of a tangent. I generally agree with Ernst Nolte. I think fascism, like true fascism as it emerged in Italy, it was a radical tendency. It was a much a radical tendency as communism.

was. It just didn't have the same political orientation, obviously. And a lot of that was born at future shock. You know, but also the international situation had to do with it. I make the point again and again, one of the reasons, there's the alibi of conservatives and other midwits

that, oh, you shouldn't be too hard on Churchill because the UK had to prevent the ascendancy of a rival power in Germany. That was dead. Like, evident warring and, you know, this kind of a sensibility of, oh, we've got a, you know, we've got to, we've got a, we've got to strangle geostrategic rivals in utero to like preserve, you know, our ability to manage these captive markets and things. Like, that died in 1914, you know, by the time of the Great Depression, the superpower era was emerging, you know, so Japan and Europe, in Germany specifically, but I mean, I say Europe because the axis wasn't just Germany.

That's a misconception that this was some German nationalist enterprise, but Japan through what they called the greater Asia co-prosperity sphere and Germany slash Europe would become superpowers and they would perish. You know, and, you know, I put it to people who invoke that sort of ethical alibi that I just involved. you know, the UK obviously lost the war, and it became like a third rate power, you know, that's now like overrun with, with, with aliens and is, you know, quite literally airstrip won. So, like, obviously, like, that victory was the most purec victory that's ever, that's ever been had. Yeah, like, Mosley was completely correct, right? Like, we have to secure the empire. We're going to lose it, you know, just to briefly bring up, like, Denzyas cult of

speed, right? We didn't have paved roads until like 1820. Mac Adam didn't invent the process till 18th, 1820s. So think about this. Like Roman transportation in like the first century was the best roads got until the mid 18th century. And 40 miles an hour was the fastest any human being went.

More than it like a second or two and not and live to tell about it. for centuries. And as you pointed out, right, like, there's, was just no alternative. In ESB, we're chumonted at the Fubble. That's the fogg, and talk to the heart to the Chonskiddle

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Well, the two key aspects of future shock that translated that both informed and were the catalyst for and were most significant to the political situation.

It was the crisis of labor and it was the military and strategic situation and the emergence of of war tech, devastating war tech at scale. And also what's significant is that massive warfare at scale basically never ever happens.

So the 20th century, the fact that this became the reality constantly, that's completely abnormal. Those conditions happen maybe once every thousand years. And obviously, again, the war tech that emerged in scale capacities, that was totally unprecedented. But also, I make the point to people a lot, you know, the crisis of labor and the fortunes of millions of people being bound up with labor imperatives. People can't conceptualize that anymore. That's the reason why I'm always telling people,

don't use the term working class. There is no working class. The last of it in structural terms went away in the early 90s. Like when we say working class, we don't mean people with jobs. or like guys who do work. We're talking about millions and millions of people doing pretty much the exact same job

in factory settings. They're almost all young. They're almost all men. Their jobs are dangerous. They're very, very low wage. There's basically no room for advancement. It's a totally urbanized setting for this kind of labor.

That is the working class. It's conditions that don't exist anymore. Really anywhere on this planet. Like even in places like China where there's just like mass like apple factories. I mean, don't be wrong. Those people have like a really brutal lot of life. And they don't have like the right to organize or anything. And they're very much like exploited.

But that's different than what we're talking about in, you know, the early 20th century. Like that's the, that's the, that's the ideological soil, if you will, from where like, communism emerges. That is the working class. If you read up in Sinclair's the jungle, which I think is a great book, you know, I know socialist like Sinclair was, but what he describes in the Chicago stockyards, that's the way that it was. You know, every day people die on the job. Like going to your job is like going to war. And there's always many want to work. Like if you, if you age out of the ability to physically do your job, if you get injured on the job, you'll be thrown away like garbage. There's a hundred other

men who want to do your job or younger, stronger, and we'll do it for half of what you do. Like, why do I need you? That's the working class, okay? And there's an ontological aspect to it. Like, people emphasize a lot

the fact that these people lived in poverty, often grinding poverty, and in the cities that were dirty, dangerous. These people have been ripped out of the out of their kind of natural patterns of living in rural or semi-rural environments

to go work there because they had to survive. But also, there's an ontological aspect. Like, in one of the younger's, I mean, younger dealt with this directly and they're arbiter. But he, in a lot of his fiction,

like the pro tags or some of the secondary characters. They're great war veterans who find themselves in factory environments and those experiences like bleed into one another. You know, like fighting with these dangerous machines, you know, to like earn like a pulmonary wave just like being in the trenches again. You know, that's, it's not, it's not just an accident or it's not just a flex that these guys on the street in Vimar, you know, who fought under the communist banner called themselves, you know, combat group of the working class

because it wasn't verbally. And those conditions are psychologically devastating. You know, like basically you're forced into conditions where it's like I've got to I've got to do this dangerous, dirty

job. Otherwise I'll die. You know, and I have no recourse. You know, that's a lot of what underlay, I mean, that's what underlay all revolutionary imperatives. You know, including fascism and Mussolini's background in, like, the communist movement, despite what a lot of communists said and what a lot of left revisionists say today, it wasn't just like some cynical ploy, like, oh, I'll start donning this kind of guise of, of national or racial pride or something. Like, Mussolini believed everything he said, you know, but he wasn't putting on anything.

airs with defining the fascist movement as like a movement of like workers and soldiers and artists because that's what it was um kind of the it was also responding to it was also responding to it was also responding to tendencies like the action of franca who were very much reactionary like morass himself was like an atheist and very much kind of like a 20th century modernist but he believed in like the he thought that you know the roman church should have like retain like a fundamental role in French political life. He believed in like the monarchy. You thought these things were like

essential to the sovereign authority and like symbolic psychological aspects of culture. Mussolini was responding to that in large part. He's like no, that's nonsense. We're done with that. You know like Mussolini kept obviously, Mussolini didn't oppose the monarchy part of it in Italy. Part

of that was tactical. A part of that was you know, he thought those kinds of things were important as a matter of you know, like, you know, like Latin heritage and stuff. But he, uh, the, the national fascist party, I agree with Ernest and all of it. It was largely in response to that. Like the national socially German workers party was like very much like a synthesis of those things. You know, uh, not entirely consciously.

It was like a discursive process with them. I think that's the way to think about it, frankly. Let me jump in. Let me jump in and ask a question here. Um, when you look at the 19. century with the 19th century basically being a I mean you had seminaries who were seminaries who were formally reformed adopting Darwinian Darwinian models so basically the metaphysical has gone away how much is how much of an effect does that have just basically I mean on the culture we know what it does but how

much of an effect does that have on the political culture you mean even outside of like Marxism. Yeah, it's tremendously impactful, and that's why that's one of the two things. It was that. It was the death of metaphysics and things that were, things

like transcendent aspects of culture, but also you know, people took for granted that, you know, religion is dead, you know, even if that thing, even though that kind of thing is value, nobody believes in that anymore. You know, human affairs are reducible to the material and the biological. And that's what I'm

really like a lot of racialism. Okay, I wrote a whole essay for my dear friend, Giles, who runs the asylum mag. I wrote, I wrote an essay for it that he asked me to, because people have this idea that, oh, you know, this kind of racialism was some German obsession. That's the way everybody thought. You know, America was probably the most avidly, like, racial eugenicist country that existed then. I mean, people thought that way in England, in Japan, in France. Like, this idea that, you know, well, the reason humans behave the way they do culturally is because of your race. Like, like, I'm not saying, and like, race is a real thing.

I'm not saying that. But it's not, you're like, your DNA or your blood, as they thought in those days, like, doesn't make you, like, act Jewish or, like, act German. Like, that doesn't make any sense. But in those days, everybody thinks. thought that way. Like, honestly, that's why these, like, internet guys, like, I mean, yeah, there's, like, an ethnic component to any sectarian belief structure. And obviously, like, obviously, like, Judaism is an ethnos as well as, like, a, um,

a sectarian cultural structure. But these guys, these weirdos, like, bandying, like, oh, Jews are a race. Like, that, nobody thinks that way anymore. That's the way people thought in, in the 1920s. like on both sides of the divide like oh like you're jewish because you have this kind of you have this kind of blood you know like that you know and if you're if you're if you're if you're european or irian like or japanese you know your blood makes you behave this way like that's that's that's not the way things are like that's darwinist nonsense you know like darwinism is nonsense i don't know people on the right

can't like let that go but that's that's as much it's as much like an enlightenment you know, kind of secular humanist lie is the rest of it. You know, like, you're not, you're not some like meat robot like running a program. Like, it's not what a race is.

You know, like, yeah, there's a biological aspect to it, but that, you know. But no, that, um, that's why, uh, that's why people, they kind of cherry pick, they'll look at something like, uh, some guy like, uh, some guy like, uh, Some guy like Serrano Suneer or somebody like Mussolini or somebody like Hitler like said or wrote about religion.

They're like see like these guys hated religion. It's like everybody thought that way. You know, and honestly, like people like Hitler and Mussolini, they had like a softer view. I mean, first of the economy is wanted to literally like murph. People who were, you know, still clinging to the old ways. but you know the

the national souls isn't the fascist I mean they such that their views of of religiosity seem punitive which in the case I really don't think they did they were like look at look at the conversation like

Himmler and Gottlauberger were like burgers talking about how like yeah you need to like cultivate among Islamic allies we need to like cultivate their belief and like in Orthodox and Roman Catholic territories, we got to cultivate religious belief. They were doing the opposite,

if anything, but it, um, like cynical is that way it been or not. Like the point being, it wasn't even like, for a lot of people, it wasn't even like a, it was a value neutral thing. Like, this is the way it is. People don't think that way anymore. You know, so why would we talk about that stuff?

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but I do think that it's important for the listeners to remember that in the span of, like, three generations, like, um, down there was actually good at this. Um, if you were like a poor peasant and you needed a job, you could go to the local burger,

the local, um, Ritter, the local, you know, gentlemen in pretty much any country in Europe, right, before 1914, they'd be like, hey, I need a job. And he'd like, oh, well, I guess I could use another gardener, another this, another that.

And, you know, between the revolution in industry and the revolution in the war, right, that killed that for a lot of reasons, like the entire upper crust of Britain, of France, of Germany, like they all died in the trenches, Russian, the entire aristocracy, but itself white all across Europe. And, you know, the natural leader class just basically got slaughtered in 1914 to 1918. So the, and I was incorrect earlier, it was a, it wasn't Dinozao in the Cepa, it was Marinette. I'm sorry.

But that brutal work environment that you talked about and, you know, effectively the factory being no different than the trenches. Was there any, like, precedent for this in history that we know of?

I mean, like, I'm struggling to find with some kind of parallel here where, like, the entire economic, social, religious, you know,

sociological, familial paradigm just they all just shattered there is no parallel and like despite this one's making the point that like only morons say history repeats itself it absolutely does not you know like only idiots think that

was consider this man the the Ford motor plant I mean Henry Ford was a great man and in part because he he humanized labor and he and he did he took heroic measures to elevate the a code of his workforce.

So that's relevant, but just in overall terms. But my point is the Ford Motor plant employed 100,000 people. That's utterly insane. Like, literally tens of thousands of people working on one

site, and thousands and thousands of men literally doing the same job. But it's also like general strike could bring the economy to its knees, you know, because these valued manufacturers, you know, they, if you could, if you get a halt production on them, you know, there, there was no business was being done. You know, it wasn't at all like today. And when

you're talking about, when you're talking about a true working class where you have, you know, people integrated with productive machines, like literally, you know, all doing the same job. they become part of that machine and they can they can stop that machine and like that's why that's also why uh scab labor became a thing because you can if you got like a if you got like a young man literally with a strong back if he can physically handle it and endure it psychologically and physically you can teach any strong young guy to do this job like that's part of that's part of what was critical to this paradigm is that we're talking about physically very difficult unskilled labor.

You know, it's basically, you know, it's like a labor army. That's why Spangler talked about how the city is a barracks. Because urbanization at scale, that's why it doesn't make any sense anymore. And like since the 70s, when the federal government stopped bailing out cities, which was a huge deal under the Ford administration,

Gerald Ford. Like the whole, the mad scramble has been to, like, find a way to make cities profitable because they don't make sociological sense. I mean, I think cities are important for sociological and historical reasons, but they exist. The reason why cities exist as we know them is as worker barracks, you know, and finding a way to make them profitable when that paradigm went away has been a very difficult thing. And it's still, it's ongoing. Something you said there that just triggered something right in my brain was about general strikes.

And a lot of people will say, oh, the reason why you ship your manufacturing over to China is because, you know, it's cheaper to manufacture there and ship back here than it is to manufacture here. Yeah, you also don't have a chance. There's no chance of having a strike in a shutdown. Because it's, yeah, because it's illegal and you're thrown in jail. Or you'll be shot. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right. Well, or sabotage, right? Like, think about the average Ford plant today.

How many billions of dollars in capital is there at a Ford plant? You know, every robot's probably $25, $30,000, $40,000 or more. I have no idea, right? More. Like, I worked at a machine shop as my first job. And there was these machines that literally had been made in World War II that were valued at like $75,000 or $100,000. It's insane. Yeah, go ahead.

And that was a number of years ago, so they're probably even more now, right? So you talk about an army of labor. Well, armies can go towards the other guy or they can mutiny. And so like if they, your workforce mutinies and they destroy a bunch of your stuff or sabotage any of your stuff or. And it doesn't even need to be much, right? Like if, if one of your lates is like a tenth of degree of a degree out of spec, like every single part it puts out, is going to be wrong. And when you have to have tolerances of thousands of an inch in order for something to work,

like think about how crazy it is. I'm talking about my friend Sandbatch about this. Like if anyone understood what a car is, it's a, it's a metal tube filled up with highly explosive, volatile gasoline, and you light it on fire and you go down the road at 90 miles an hour. Like, like, that's crazy. And in order for that not to like just fall apart or or break, you have to, you know, you have to have very tight tolerances. And we're not talking airplanes, which are even tighter or, you know, anything like that. This is just cars and they have relatively loose tolerances compared to something like an airplane or let alone anything involving space.

So you've got these where you, everything has to be up to spec. No, 100%. I'll also add to talking about the labor situation and the radical. of the laboring classes, as well as World War I and managing conflict at scale. You know, this kind of thing, it's like trying to ride some out-of-control animal. Like this idea that every step of the way this stuff can be controlled or that there's like discrete kind of temporal snapshots whereby if you're in an executive role, you can somehow put the brakes on things like that's nonsense like these things get out of control rapidly

and trying to try to bring a labor revolver under control or trying to end uh they're trying to bring a conflict to you know to um to ceasefire as was the case on like 1916 1917 that's that's almost impossible you know like once these things start they can't really be stopped have to run their course. And I mean, that was the case if you're talking about, if you're talking about, you know, some, some, some local lord in the 1500s, if you're talking about a national state of 80 million people, you know, involved in a war that's rapidly becoming mechanized, you know, where, where, we're 20 million men are mobilized fighting it. It's impossible to stop it, you know and um that's why uh and there was there's in and the leadership element was uniquely

ill-suited to do that you know i mean the point again again is the reason why hit hitler actually personally hated very few people i mean he wouldn't have gotten very far as and he certainly wouldn't become the most single powerful man in the world if he sat around hating people he hated de kaiser wilhelm and um many many very very very veterans did as they should have because he was a piece of shit and um holveig was was the real holvig and franz joseph and the hasbury empire were like the real heroes the central powers in my opinion but and both of them understood that if this war begins it's we won't be able to stop it you know i mean while the kaiser was carrying on and with he was like some kind of money python

character or something it's like oblivious to these things i mean as we're like a lot of his counterparts to be fair across the continent. But, you know, the German Empire was a mixed system. It was, you know, the Bismarckian system. There was a genuine separation between state and government. But at the end of the day, I mean, the Kaiser and ultimate war authority. You know, I mean, people, the general staff, the Reichs consular, you know, these guys had a lot of power, and they had independent power to negotiate within reason, but I mean, it was in the hands of the Kaiser

and like, if you got some, if you got guys who were born in the mid-19th century who have been kind of cloistered within palace walls, like, both physically and conceptually, and a modern mechanized war

is in their hands. Like, that's, that's a nightmare. You know, I mean, that's part of it. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November.

Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4.Northwest. Lawyers? Rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a Spend Anywhere card, when with Options Card, you can have both. With Options Card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a Spend Anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage. There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit OptionsCard.I.E. today.

operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4.Northwest. Yeah, well, I got, you were talking, Hitler was born in 1889.

And Mussolini was 1883, I believe. Right. So they were young men when like the world had changed in a crazy fashion. But all the guys you'd mentioned, you know, the Kaiser was born in what, 1853, I want to say. I can't remember. But, you know, like 1850, like he was an old man by 1914. And he was literal prince, right? So he's in this, he's never had to work in industrial, even the kings of France,

who, you know, quote, unquote, worked for a living where they were taught a trade as part of their raginal duties, right? They were never taught like, okay, be careful, don't stick your finger in this or lose an arm. Like, that was never a thing that any of these people ever had to deal with. I think Franz Joseph was an exception. And he was probably elderly by the onset of hostilities. but he'd bronze Joseph uh he'd regularly fast he slept on a military cot he like would forego luxury he was a career soldier like even when he was out of active service like he'd still like wear a uniform every day like he he didn't like having to put out like regal finery but yeah go

ahead generally yeah that's he was the exception that proves the rule yeah well he's he's uh there are people who want to canonize him no one of Catholics particularly who want to canonize him because he was just such a, he tried so hard to stop this, you know, and as you mentioned, like, it had a momentum all its own where, like, no one could stop it, you know, like, perhaps in 1913, like, if all the cousins had met and been like, this is insane, like, if, if they'd gotten together and perhaps done a demonstration, like, this is what a modern machine gun can do and, like, had a bunch of cows in the field or something. And what's, that's critical, too.

Like, after, after Waterloo, there wasn't a real European war. Like there was the, there's the Franco Prussian War, which was like, a, which was like an incredible victory. I mean, I would put the Prussians on the map. And there was, there was the Crimea, but the Crimea was, like, very much restricted to localized theaters. But there, you know, there wasn't a real, like, modern war. There was guys, and the guys who'd served as mercenaries and the war between the states and America, like, some of them tried to sound the alarm. I was like, look, like, this is going to be a slaughter. But yeah, they, people had no idea what, like, modern war tech was like,

because it had been a century since most people have been exposed to that kind of thing. And everything changed so much, too. I mean, yeah, well, that's one of the things I wanted to bring up is you go from, you go from the Franco-Prussian War to World War I, which is less than 50 years. And World War I, you have planes that are flying around and they're dropping, manually dropping bombs out of them. And then just less than 20 years later, the Condor Legion is frigging cities on fire in Spain. I mean, how do you not, how does humanity and people who are of a high culture thinking,

people who are looking towards the eternal and looking towards doing great things, how are they not all over the place in trying to figure out an ideology, when you, in 20 years, you go from, oh, here, I'm dropping a bomb out of a plane with my hand to, I just let Gwernick on fire. Yeah. No, and things like, and things like chemical warfare. I mean, it's not just, like, poison gas is disgusting, and it's, it's just, like, awful to contemplate. That's a, that's a terrible way to die.

But this idea that, you know, I can, I can, I can fire poisoning at you, like, well outside of visual range through like indirect fire um you know and uh within seconds you'll be like your lungs will thread to pieces and you'll die like choking on those pieces or uh you know like you'll you'll scratch your you'll you'll you'll scratch most sensitive areas of your body bloody because like a blistering agent is is is is like tearing your skin apart you know like that kind of stuff it's like something out of like science fiction that'd be like if guys went to war tomorrow and like the Ivans or

like the Cuthys had like found a way to like launch like Zeno Morse at you that like grab your face and then like pop out of your chest. I mean it's I'm being obtuse but that's like what it would be like like people just like what the fuck you know like I that I mean

not like people were I mean people are habituated to violence unfortunately very much in those days of a non cool like noble sword but stuff like that is just like the horrors of technology kind of shit I guess is my point. Like the largest the Grand Army got was like 600,000 people and that was only very briefly, right?

And then like World War I, that's not even, I mean, that's like casualties for a couple months, you know? Yeah, the burn rate is, was unbelievable. And it's also too, some of the some of the exigencies that emerge in game theory and like, reached their zenith, you know, by the final cycle of the Cold War, where there's conditions of strategic parity and planning for nuclear war fighting, you know, you're, like you as a commander of, or as part of the command element of strategic nuclear forces, you're charged with identifying potential war indicators, like before the enemies even started to act, arguably before he even understands that conditions are moving towards war, you know, and

then you know you've got to be able to read those indicators and decide whether to like preemptively assault or not like stuff like that was though those kinds of um variables were already emergent in 1914 and that's why i believe i agree with um jp taylor um when the when the russian empire when the czar gave the order to mobilize russia had a two-phase mobilization um paradigm. And once it was implemented, even if the, even if the, even if the czar or, I don't know if the Russian imperial army had a general staff or not, whatever their command element was, even if he or them had put the brakes on mobilization, you know, if, if, um, if the German empire and the Hafts re empire, like, hadn't assaulted,

they would have been dead because they were like rolled the dice and been like, okay, will, will not mobilize in kind, you know, taking like the czar it, like his word. But it's like, if this is a war ruse, like, we're dead. You know, because you don't have force, even if you have forces in being, and even if you have like a properly trained, an outfitted, like, reserve system of, like, able-bodied men, they're not, like, sitting around mobilized. you know so essentially um it's the equivalent of like deloping metaphorically speaking like while you're dueling opponent like has his weapon trained on you you know so this head i'm sure

people listening are going to think i'm i'm being punitive and mean to the russians i'm not there's not like a moral component here i'm saying like in causal terms when when the czar gave the order immobilized forces, the die was cast. They couldn't be stopped anymore. When a Hallwig approached the French at the 11th hour and begged them to stand down, if they had done that, I think that that would have stayed the hand of the Russians because then they would have been fighting both the German Empire and the Habsburgs on like a single front, whereby like the bulk of both forces could be thrown at the

czar's army but that's that's a bit abstract but um yeah that that's important to consider man and um it play it also relates to like i said like like situational awareness particularly as regards uh the window of decision temporally you know as to responding to uh world market conditions there's a parallel not just a similar not in terms of similarity like structural similarity but there's a parallel in

terms of causality you know between military and geopolitical crises and and economic events at scale you know and this is

these are the things that really created kind of like the late modern state, you know, like the managerial state, if you will. As James Burnham called it. You know, like, in some ways we're very fortunate, man. I don't want to pontificate or derail the conversation, but I, especially if you're old enough to remember the Cold War. I mean, I was like a little kid and like a very young teen when the Cold War was going on,

but it was just something you lived with. people these days are like are compared to even 40 years ago or like unbelievably safe that's why it's bizarre they act like a bunch of hysterical old women all the time are scared of everything it's like what the fuck you talking about like compared to somebody 100 or 50 or 40 years ago you're like unbelievably safe but yeah I didn't mean well it's like but it's also like you say Thomas the US military is designed just to fight the cold war so is our political so is our political thought. That's what we're taught. We're just, I mean, our philosophy now is we're just continually fighting the Cold War. Everyone's an enemy. Everyone's out to get us. And then

it's just come home. And now it's, we're fighting the Cold War on our home on our, on the home front. Employers, rewarding your staff. Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card? When with Options Card, you can have both. With Options Card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a spend anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage. There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause.

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Options Card is Ireland's brand new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCard.i.e. today. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense and you'd think that, like again, I'm the first to admit, or first to emphatically state that history doesn't repeat itself. But when you're talking about, but I mean, human activity is basically like a closed

loop. You know, like, there's like limited numbers of like outcomes, you know, and there's like, there's not like infinite variables of like human behavior. Okay,

so there's like parallels. So if you're trying to, you're trying to like identify, um, if you're trying to like identify potential courses of action, like in any given like emergency scenario of a political nature. Um, you know,

you, you do, we order the historical record, like, trying to find parallels. I mean, like, obviously, particularly on things related to, like, military questions. The, um, it's really unprecedented for that, that level, like, kind of structural senility, the way, like, America is. It's, like, it's, like, it's, like, total inability to, like, adapt after November 9th, 1989.

Like, Bush and Baker were adapting, which is, it's fascinating how, like, the deep state totally and completely sabotaged, like, their vision moving forward and global. I'm not saying you've got to think like Bush was like a like Bush 41 was like a good guy or something. But he did deserve like no surprise. What's that? His management at the end of the Cold War, how no one got nuked is, I mean, like it's really truly, yeah, it's a remarkable diplomatic achievement. I'm just a. Yeah, the Gulf War coalition.

That was, uh, the Prussians would envy that like in terms like how the war was executed. But the way he, he corralled literally. the Syrians, the Saudis. He had the Soviet Union, which was in its final days then, like sign off on the operation. You know, like, he had like, he had a literal, like, army of the nations, like, arrayed against Saddam. That's completely insane. Like, the guy was, like, a historical giant of a U.S. president in post-war terms. Like, even if you don't like him, like some guy did the other day on the internet was like, yeah, Bush 41 was, he was, what a great man, idiot.

like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, that's so, like, delusional. But, um, but no, but the, the total inability of the deep state to manage, like, the post-cold war environment. And it shows you, like, how, like, the rot was deep. Like, even people's idea that, like, the Reagan era was, like, really based and the government related shit together. And don't get me wrong.

That cadre that, that filled out the Bush 41 administration, like, James Bay, Baker, Caspar Weinberger, Lawrence Evoberger, like a bunch of these guys. Like, those guys were, like, very serious guys, especially Baker. Baker's somebody I really admire, okay? But the wider kind of national security apparatus, it was a bunch of goofs and idiots. You know, like, I mean, people who just couldn't handle, you know, the changing of the guard, figuratively and literally. And, and, and they didn't want the Cold War to end because, like, they, they were,

it was, uh, it was, it was, it was like basically like a con to them. It was just like a way of like, you know, being able to. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of live off the public coffers and, and profit by the ongoing threat of, uh, of, uh, of war. Don Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney just. Yeah, guys like that. Exactly.

They just treated the entire thing like this existential struggle. And I'm, I'm just old enough to remember. like the Cold War when it was serious and I grew up next to you know a military base in the West Coast and so there were times when I was a kid where like you know the F-16s would come screaming you know off their off their base and like you know you knew some serious shit was going down or something like when I was in elementary school um we'd still we'd have they called them by then emergency drills like euphemistically you know like we'd have to we'd have to go to, like, the bell would ring, like, three times over and over again,

and we'd have to, like, go single file to the lower level. And then you'd, like, where, like, it was structuring being, like, it was structurally more robust, I guess. And, like, every classroom had, like, a number that was posted where, like, you'd have to, and, like, that's where you'd, like, assemble. And then, like, you'd get down on your hands and knees, and you'd duck and cover and, like, put your head, like, again. the wall and we have to hold

the position for 30 seconds. It was oh this is the emergency drill. Yeah well the only emergency you do that in is nuclear war, okay? And so this I felt like slapping people. I mean even not just not just I mean I get kids a pass like young people

I mean people fuckers like my age and older like when the COVID thing was like we've never faced a threat like this. I'm like what the fuck are you talking about? Are you insane? You know like I I I never other kid in America grew up with the reality, you might become

countervalue attrition. You know, I mean, like, it was the seasonal flu was like an existential menace unlike anything, really. Like, it's, but that's, that's a aggression. Well, it is,

I think, a good illustration of just how fundamentally unsirious um, our, our elite have become, right? Like, I've talked about this on Pitchell before and everyone should check out like it's serious as Dr. Johnson. on 200 years together. But like fundamentally, this whole Ukraine thing is just because like a bunch of American

neocons are still salty about the Hamunitsky program from 1648. I mean, that's why the war in Ukraine is a thing, right? And what's, uh, I mean, the tribe absolutely hates Russia. Like the degree to which they hate Russia, like can't be overstated. Like just anecdotally, um, I kind of like Ralph Bakshi, even though he's like a huge fucking Jew. like, you know, the animator. He made this really interesting movie called

American Pop, and I really like that movie. And it's basically about this family. It follows these four generations of these guys. Like, one of them is like this vaudeville performer. Like, one of them's just like piano prodigy. He gets killed in World War II. One of them's like this songwriter.

He's kind of like a cross between like Lou Reed and D.D. Ramon, who becomes like this huge heroin addict. And his son then becomes just like this huge rock star. you know, like in the 1980s. It's a cool movie, but it opens up where the Cossacks are like programming like the Russian Jews. Because like, even Baxi, he was like this New York

City guy. He's like, oh, you know, the Russians are like, you know, they're those anti-Semitic bastards. Like that's literally like their number one enemy. They fucking hate the Russians. And to be fair, the Russians have no love for them. But the Ukraine war is complicated. It's, in large measure, it was returning the serve for the Russians and Assad's forces levying a huge defeat against IDF and their and their tech fury proxies in Syria. Yeah, but I mean, so yeah, like anybody

anyone doesn't understand the dynamic between Russians and and the Jews as a people. Like, it's not in the game. Right. But, but we're, you know, we're dealing with, right, both world wars start over like border disputes in eastern europe that heavily involved jews right and we're supposed to just sit here and like be like this is fine and get more involved in like wait a minute didn't world war one start over a border dispute with slas and well there's just this idea too i mean it's just like the monumental ignorance like i made the point of people before, you know, like the American left, like guys like Peter Arnett and the like and media especially, I mean, I thought those guys were terrible people, but there was like a

consistency to them and, you know, they, there, there was an internal logic to like their perspective. Like, the American left now, like, they want to like, they, they're basic a shoe leading section for, uh, for like the warfare state. Like, it's bizarre. These people are totally illiterate. You know, like, uh, like if the, uh,

if, um, you know, it's like that scene in the movie Caligula, which is probably apocryphal where it's like Caligula, where it's like, Caligula, he, he orders, uh,

the Roman allegiance, like, assault the sea to, like conquer, like Poseidon's kingdom or like Neptune, I guess his kingdom. Okay, like,

if Joe Biden had, like, the U.S. Marines would attack the Atlantic Ocean. Like, these faggots would have been. been like, yeah, we hate the Atlantic Ocean. They're, like, racist and stuff. Like, they're literally retarded.

You know, like, they, they couldn't find Ukraine on a map, but they, you know, it's like, if you're going to pretend to, like, care about some other country, Ukraine is literally, it's, it's a failed state in order of Somalia, like, run by a literal, like, homicidal criminal mafia. It's, like, sitting around saying you love, like, Edia means Uganda. Like, you know, it's like, you really, you love Ukraine. You think like the Zelensky Mafia is awesome and it's like your idea of like a good government

that needs to be defended like it's you can't make this shit up. These people are literally insane and they're literally retarded. And I mean, of course you're right, but this this notion that like individual rights or

that a society where a society where your like weird devotion to transsexualism as a religious value um absolute personal autonomy to the point of of you know like shedding male and female um and you know total um liberation from any kind of that that's possible in any kind of society that actually functions right you know these people will talk about like well you're a gender fascist what because I think boys are boys and girls are girls like if if egalitarian ralzy and liberalism leads you to the point where you think like cross-dressing is a major political issue as opposed to like a very weird very niche fetish

this should be you know what yeah that's why yeah that's why you're like people i make that point of you all the time it's like don't it's like what the fuck you're doing like arguing with like sexual parapheriacs. It's like personal these people are insane and those of them that aren't insane, it's like they're basically like they're A making fun of you and they're B like running in after you sabotage. You don't like engage people who like

say crazy things. That's like arguing with some hobo on the subway with like shit in his pants. You know like you don't it's like I'm not going to argue with these fucking people. You know like not just because I don't argue with my people's enemies but it's like yeah, it's like you just said. It's like if if what you believe is politics,

is like talking about like paraps sexual parapherias like I like I like traditionally like the remedy to that would would be to have you shot but right and with good reason I like and this is this is why this is why like you've seen yeah I'm not going to advocate murdering people but I'm also not going to argue with them and pretend like they have some position that deserves being heard yeah I'm just enough younger than you, I think, that, like, everyone, like, I'm in my mid-40s, so everyone younger than me, like, has no coherent memory of, like, a coherent society. And why they're constantly talking about fascism and why the resurgence in interests today. And I think one of the great services you provide Thomas and I, kudos and plus. audits for this, you know, in the dark years in the 70s, 80s and 90s, when all the men who'd

actually been there were dying of old age, and there were a few people like yourself, Mark Weber, a couple others who kept the light alive. Around 2013 or so, it was the 2012 election where, you know, you had like literally movie star handsome, like graying temples, Mitt Romney, right? Like, you know, he's like central casting in Republic. And no, yeah, he had great here. Yeah, you know, like, That's about it. It's got all you had, but yeah.

Right, but, but, you know, conservatism like they saw that, um, like, it, it had failed like, like, like, like we lost to Obama again,

you know, like this guy, obvious lightweight, probably a homosexual, like, well, he's just an empty suit. Yeah,

just an empty suit. And, you know, the 08 crisis, he'd done nothing about, you know, done nothing with that. And just,

he was a tool of, banks and um it was just as like this random guy like it didn't his candidacy didn't make any sense it's like if you were gonna like if you're gonna take i'm dating myself with this reference but people remember jc wats he was this he was a canadian football league jock and he was kind of the republican's token like black guy he was this kind of like slick black dude who always like wore really nice suits and uh he came up was kind of corny you know because he's like oh i'm jc wats So I'm like, I'm like, handsome and like Hollywood terms, like, polite black man. It's like, okay, if you're going to draft a guy like that and like make him and like install him as president, like, okay, get it.

Or if you're going to draft some like Spanish guy is like, you know, this is like Mr. Immigrant like Spanish guy who like bootstrap himself into success. And like basically make his candidacy like a reality TV show, however fake that was. It's like, okay, get that. It's a old bomb. It's like, here's this random guy who's like from Hawaii. You know, we're going to pretend he's from Chicago and then we're going to pretend he's black. Like the whole thing was like very random and weird. Straight and pretendies.

Right. Yeah. But it may, but it's like why it's like why are you going to pretend he's black? Like why if you're going to like personally in Chicago. Yeah. It's like either draft an actual black guy or make the narrative. he's just like citizen of the world colored person like why they made no fucking sense and that's also why the guy's like totally forgotten now because they had no context you know it's yeah oh he has he has CIA connections that's why he ended up but anyway no the thing that thing to think about right is um and this is where I came in I came into the movement about 20 years ago in after the failure of the Ron Paul revolution um And, you know, you really only are given these three alternatives, right?

How do you deal with this mass society where millions of people are, you know, turning wrenches in a car factory or millions of people are, you know, driving to and from work every day. Millions of people are, you know, logging into a computer, millions of people are doing all these things. And, you know, the coherent alternatives are, like, capitalism as we know it, which has failed people my age and younger, like spectacularly. They can't afford houses. They can't get married.

They can't save. They can't afford to live anywhere safe. They have to live in vans. Like, you know, that was a joke when we were a kid, you know, Chris Farley. And then you live in a van again.

Right. Yeah. Well, now that's like, that's like aspirational. Like, oh, you live in a really nice van down by the river. You know,

wait a second. Like, when I was a kid, this was like not a good thing. And now, like, it's all the younger, like older zoos or younger, but litters can't afford. And so it's been going on for a minute.

I mean, absolutely right. When I was, when I was homeless, I mean, like much of that was like my own fault. I'm not saying that like conditions like macro economic conditions made me homeless. But I meet like other homeless people. And a lot of them were, yeah, they were like young guys and girls where they couldn't, they literally couldn't afford rent. or whatever or like i'm certainly not a mortgage and they had like fucked up parents who basically threw them out there were like or were like shitheads who like wouldn't let them stay with them while they got on their feet and it was like eye opening i'm like wow this terrible um but uh

i'm gonna i'm gonna raise up in a minute um i'd want to be a broth but i figure i've been going for an hour and um i'm still kind of not feeling great um we can take this up again sometime in the next few days or like in a week if you guys want to make this an ongoing thing. I think it's been really great, but I just, and I'm happy to hear to listen to you talk anytime, but I think it's important for the listener to realize, like, you know, there's a reason, like, hardcore Bolsheviks after the 2008 crisis, like, did the Occupac Wall Street thing, and then it failed because they were obsession with, like, DEI stuff,

and why the resurgence of influence or interest in, you know, fascist, alternatives. Why, why there's a bunch of guys who were 30 years old and who Stan Hitler is because you've seen the same kind of conditions that, you know, created a revolution in the first place in Weimar. Like, you know, there's hyperinflation in trannies and like Jews are in charge and like, no, I think young people are awesome. Like, not just because, I mean, young people are the future. I mean, that's who we should be focused on anyway. But young guys and girls generally have their shit together. That's why like, I, I don't like when people trash zoomers.

I mean, that's stupid anyway and like a shitty way to be. But zoomers have a lot of, they got a lot of dynamic energy. And even like a lot of the zoomers on the left. Like I was talking to some of these kids that I ran across at the DNC protest and like other places. And like a lot of them, they're kind of naive in terms of their utopian. concepts but a lot of them are kind of they read guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein and they read uh like they read serious left-wing stuff and they realize that they realize that uh like pro regime like perverts like are

pieces of shit and like they're their enemy yeah and I'm not thinking it's great of kids read Marx and Lenin but I at least that's serious stuff it's not it's not um it's not like regime pornography and like boozy fucking garbage. No, that's true. And I was talking with a friend today. Um, like the most depressed people in the world right now and for probably the last

50 years at least have been like indigenous Christians in, um, Israel. In West Bank and Gaza. Oh yeah. Palestine. Yeah. And like to give those guys in the left at least credit, they're at least

serious about like these people that are oppressed. they're being murdered by the thousands by this regime. They might call a fascist. And there's some truth that because Javitinsky was a fascist, right? L'Lakoub found or the L'Kud Party, like, basically just stole Mussolini's notes. So we know it works. Leakutism is like, it's like a pastiche of all kinds of things that don't really make sense in the context that's implemented. But, yeah, no, there's a, these are, these are amazing times.

and things are incredibly, I'm incredibly optimistic. And anybody who's not doesn't, anybody who's not, say they're like addicted to their own, addicted to like the stink of their own failure and misery or they're just like not engaged with, you know,

what's happening around them. But no, I appreciate you guys. Yeah. I'll help us, I'll help us close out here. I think just a lot of people too are, their whole stick is,

nothing's going to ever get better. And they're just selling it. And they're monetizing that. So, all right, let me let me let you guys get out of here. Thomas do plugs and then, D, you can promote whatever you want. Yeah, the best place to find me is my substack. That's where all kinds of good stuff happens. It's real Thomas 777.7.7.com.

that's I mean that's the place to go you can find everything I do there there's hyperlinks and stuff to what else I do my social media is alt is at

capital REL underscore number 7 HMAS 7777 and yeah we'll reconvene whenever you guys want and just give me a couple of days notice

cool D you got something Thank you for, yeah, thanks for having me, Pete. I just have, you know, the fundamental principle on substack, fundamental principles.substack.com and, you know, gumroad of FP podcast at gunnarrow.com. So people are interested in my religious project. That's what there you can find me. And, of course, you know, I'm privileged to be here once a month with Pete with the

thought crimes syndicate. So please give that a listen. And I'll do my standard sign off of like, you know, go to Freeman and Boolean on the wall slash support. kick Pete a few bucks. It's, you know, he does so much work behind the scenes, folks. Like, he helps so many people, you know, not just me, not just Thomas, but, but dozens of people all the time.

And so please support the people that don't lie to you. You know, all of us work pretty hard at this. And, you know, a couple bucks if you can spare it helps a lot. So thank you. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Have a good night.