The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1198: The Life and Thought of Oswald Mosley w/ Thomas777 - Part 7 - The Finale

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

65 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas and Pete conclude a series exploring the life and work of British Union of Fascists founder, Oswald Mosley. Thomas talks about the British Free Corps.Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. If you want to support this show and get the episodes early and ad free, head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support. I want to explain something right now if you support me through Substack or Patreon, you have access to an RSS feed that you can plug into any podcatcher, including Apple, and you'll be able to listen to the episodes through there.

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And, yeah, can't do it without you. So thank you for the support. Head on over to freeman Beyond the Wall.com, forward slash support, and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekanana show. Thomas is here and he's going to finish up the series on Sir Oswald Mosley. So how are you done, Thomas?

I don't well. Thanks for hosting me. I, if memory serves and I reviewed the brief outline I made last time to refresh my recollection, I think I ended talking about Lord Hawa, William Joyce, and his fate, his grim fate, and Oswald Mosley and Lady Mosley being detained incident to Defense Regulation 18B, which Mosley could have made that into something of a propaganda coup because there was sympathy for him. you know, beyond the

nine or 10,000 member cadre, they were sort of the hardcore of the British Union of FASHA. It's at peak, they had about 40,000 members, but about a quarter or third of that was kind of like the core

vanguard. But, and the, uh, there were, a lot of people made a show of demand ending Mosley be detained. You know, like I said, there was only about 65 people who were detained under

Defense Regulation 18B. It was basically to target Mosley, as well as some of these society types. Because there was grave concern, and we'll get into this today, and it's oblique to the main thrust of the subject made her own a cover. There's grave concern, especially after Edward VIII, and, you know, his, uh, friendly disposition towards the German Reich. And the Duke of Hamilton, you know, who has had gone to visit, I mean, I didn't, I was trying to be flipping.

That sounds like when Mr. Hurst went to visit him. The man has wanted to make contact with during his ill-fated flight to try and, you know, reach a, a, a peace concord with with the with the Anglo establishment um Hamilton wasn't like a national

socialist or a fascist but he'd known Hess um and he was an interesting guy he was an independent thinker like it made sense I think Hess had kind of had his head in the clouds okay I mean we got into that in our series on him but

the point being it made sense that Hamilton would be the man he wanted to make contact with, longsheds it may have been. But there was concern that Hamilton himself had been somewhat compromised, which, like, his life wasn't ruined or something, but these kinds of rumors followed him and, you know, that... Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th, because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Lidl items all reduced to clear.

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and leant of Gaela to Gaelan. In Ergrid, we're taking the tour in Woonaha with Fonifunner. It's a lot of doing to do with an ango-lectricist, on as to fred with all the town, Gnaw, and people,

tariff in the asthaw there are a cooctew agin. Follam, nis more, in Ergird Pongahy. That has ugly implications considering the climate in the UK as whether it was a strategic ruse or not,

and I will die on that hill. A hundred percent wasn't strategic ruse. The fact that sea lion wasn't going to be a reality. And Hitler had devised this elaborate, you know, Ledger-Mane, essentially to deceive Stalin. It had very little to do with, you know, what the British thought about it. whether Churchill was exploiting that, you know, to solidify his war mandate or, you know, in purely cynical terms, or if he believed that was a possibility, a scenario that would come to pass.

I don't know, but there's only some people in the war party who believed it, absolutely, and this stoke out of paranoia. They were trying, they were incessantly trying to seek out people who they believed. have been compromised and in event of a massive German assault, these people supposedly were going to collaborate with what was to become, you know, a fascist government and things. It all became kind of surreal. You know,

the old show Dad's Army, for those familiar with it, it's kind of a silly old show, but it was actually pretty funny. But the subtext of it, I think, and you know and granted there's there's kind of an opaque character to a lot of what the to a lot of what the english should do but i don't think i'm reading a subtextual things into it

aren't there or weren't there but it kind of casts the entire uh it kind of cast the entire domestic climate as preposterous you know it's almost like the old movie in 1941 which is about the battle of Los Angeles. It's kind of in the same vein. You know, um, so I think there was among people who weren't taken in by the, the propaganda.

You know, I think that there was a lot of people realize this is ridiculous, but there was plenty of that didn't. And plus there was other people who absurd as any of you the entire narrative, they just hated Oswald Mosley and thought he was a bastard and wanted bad things to happen to him. And, uh,

the capacity for Sheldon Freud of the English is basically bottomless you know and that had a lot to do with it um be as it may though an important subtext to the entire

story of British fascism and uh kind of the last gasp of the the Reich executive trying to cultivate some sort of concord with at least some element of the British establishment was the attempt to the attempt to you know poach a British Army volunteers from the ranks of POWs you know and the people will remember Riven Tropp when he was the ambassador

the United Kingdom, he considered it his mission, and a lot of this was on the direct orders of the furor, but also Riven Trough was very much a believing national socialist, and the national socialist ambition was that there must be an alliance with the United Kingdom. And if you read Hitler's second book, that becomes clear. And Brendan Sims' books on Hitler are the best other than John Tolan's biography. There's a... In terms of, like, pure biographical information and kind of a glimpse into the subjective sort of psychic tendencies of Hitler. You know, there's guys like RHS Stolfe and like David Irving, who wrote about Hitler as warlord.

that's fundamentally important. But just in terms of kind of general biographical treatments, Sims' stuff is great. And he gets into some of that too. But, you know, as a situation deteriorated at the front, you know, something Hitler spoke of a lot. And also elements within the Vermacht was are the Western allies going to simply let the Red Army overrun Europe?

You know, that doesn't seem like anything, that doesn't seem like something that would gain any traction with reasonable men, either in the, you know, what remains of, you know, the patriotic element of the American establishment or the military. and a particular concern, you know, if the Soviets reached Berlin, I mean, the United Kingdom had a serious problem. I mean, they had a serious problem anyway because they'd essentially committed suicide in bargaining away the empire to wage the war. So, you know, the reasoning in Berlin, especially after Kursk, was, well, there's got to be a substantial portion of the body politic in the United Kingdom that, you know, is gravely concerned about the fact that communist victory is seen as imminent. you know and so that wasn't totally off base so the idea was that these guys who were to constitute what became the british free corps you know the the british national um element of the vapan ss they'd uh they would absolutely you know they'd be garret they'd all these men who would receive a guarantee they would not be deployed to fight against their own countrymen you know, they'd be deployed exclusively to the Eastern Front.

And they'd sign an oath that was in English, you know, pledging their fealty to Europe and Adolf Hitler, but also to the UK to, like, resist Bolshevism as, like, a European patriot. You know, and the idea was, like, well, you know, if we can get even, like, a thousand or 1,500 men, you know, and we can propagandize this extensively of these Englishmen and Scots and Irish guys and Ulster guys and Welshmen, you know, going into action against the communists, you know, under the swastika, you know, people back home in the UK will be able to wait a minute. Like we're fighting the Germans when our boys are fighting the communists. who were trying to overrun Europe and would probably slaughter us like they did the you know a quarter of the Russian population you know like I so I mean it did there was an internal logic to it you know and um this was really kind of the brainchild too of a of a Gottliebberger gotlet burger was a really interesting guy and he was actually the man who intervened uh when

crazy old Oscar Derlevanger was you know getting into all kinds of shit on kind of his alcoholism and um you know

uh as this isn't aside because um there's a lot of people including that I can't even remember his name it's like this hysterical lymie who's always dropping third right content

but he goes into these like he goes into these like histrionic diatrives about how evil at the subjects of his little content tidbits are. And he loves talking about how like Dirlavanger was a quote child molester and a

rapist. Dirlavanger like a lot of military guys who can't grow up like teenage, he liked teenage girls. A lot. So he'd carry on with 15, 16, 17 year old girls and he'd get caught doing it. And angry

father's a demand to go to jail. And finally the Reich's like, you know what? we're tired of this shit. I think you need to go to a concentration camp for a while and think about, like, keeping it in your pants. That's what happened. He wasn't hanging around schoolyards, touching little kids.

And I'm sorry, are you a creep if you're, like, 40 and you, like, kick it with teenage girls? Yeah. D'Rle Vangar was a creep, okay? He was not a child molester. That's retarded. But in any event, Berger was his was his day one

comrade from the Great War so he intervened to get him sprung from the concentration camp he basically convinced the chance of the right chancery the party chancery to like look like deploy Dirlivanger to Spain

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You know, let him lead part of the ground element. If the, like, if the crusty, horny bastard survives, you know, it doesn't drink himself to death or get blown away. Like, consider him redeemed. So, like, that's exactly what happened. And Dela Vangar, like, the guy, like, the guy had, like, the guy had brass balls. And so he, I mean, to say, he, like, led from the front.

he had, he had, like, incredible, incredible aptitude as, like, an infantry commander. Like, even when he became a, even when he became a standard sphere, you know, he was still doing the same thing. And that's one of the reasons why comp group Dirlavanger, like, you know, and these were very rough men to say the least. It's the only reason that they respected him. But in any event, Gottlieburger, when he wasn't trying to get his, uh, his friends out of prison for their indiscretions. He's the guy who really pushed hard with Himmler, like, look, you've got to give up this sort of like racial purity nonsense

to respect to the Vofan as well. He's like, yeah, we're not going to let, you know, non-Germanics enjoy the full status of the Praetorian Guard, like our own people do, but like this idea that we can't have like non-Europeans in our ranks so long as they're not, you know,

our enemies, so long as they're not Poles, long as not Russians. We'll get into at some point, like the Russian elements and the Ukrainian elements, because that's complicated. But it was Berger, for example, who brought the Oshman

divisions in. It was him, who like advocated for the Muslim Vofan SS troopers and was him who said you've got to try and get these British POWs in the Vofan SS you know and at least his view was at least some of them will go for it

that's all we need and the British Army all sort of rep for professionalism and obviously the guys the approach with this were like combat soldiers they weren't pogues and like Pogs wouldn't have been in a position to get captured anyway but that's Gottlieburgers who

it was his brainchild interestingly and some person just from the foreign ministry too but I'll get into that in a minute but the um there was a and interestingly in the UK

there was a there was rumors um until after the war of there being a like company-sized elements and larger like English POWs or British POWs fighting in the VOPN SS. That's not the case. It never numbered more than, you know, a few dozen men at one time.

But initially, the name for those floated was the British Legion. But there was a veterans organization in the UK. You know, it's a counterpart to the American Legion called the British Legion. Then the idea was floated to call it the Legion of St. George. But that was dropped because it didn't really resonate with the national socialist ideological culture. And, you know, the Greeks, the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox, they have the same patron saint. It would cause confusion that they wanted something that had like a unique.

identity and significance to Great Britain. So it was decided to call it the British Fry Corps, the British Free Corps, you know, and for the first time in the RSAHA

documentation of it, the name British Free Corps appears at the first time in November 1943. and again it was in uh it was around may that the idea was first floated you know and then uh again in the aftermath of kursk it it became something that was promoted in earnest um and so for there was a there was a special detachment under the authority of the SD um specifically uh specifically uh specifically to charged with attempting to increase their recruitment of officers.

That was largely a failure. They were only able to poach about six volunteers. And I mean, this is essential to. The SS said these men have to be volunteers. We can't press these guys into service. First of all, we're probably just going to get guys who are going to try and fool over the program, and that's why they're, you know, because they're going to resent this. Secondly, we actually wanted us to be a combat effective formation. And finally, the propaganda aspect was paramount. So these guys had to be volunteers. And looking forward, obviously, the idea was they'd allow their testimony to be recorded

and broadcast as, you know, I'm an Englishman or I'm a Welshman or I'm a Scotsman or I'm an Ulsterman. And I, you know, I'm a patriot. but, you know, I also stand with, you know, the European race against Bolshevism. You know, there's another dedicated detachment that was formed and charged with recruiting potential volunteers. It was Special Detachment 517. And they identified around 300. British POWs who were viewed to have like the physical and psychic and

aptitude you know for a combat rule with the BOP and SS and who were viewed to have you know either the political disposition that would complement service therein or you know guys who were

malleable enough or at least open to the idea so that, you know, they could be persuaded. The, as it started to take shape, a kind of, a kind of command structure developed with Special Attachment 517 of British volunteers. There was a handful of British Army and Royal Air Force NCOs

and about 20 enlisted men. who kind of were the first cadre of what was to become the British Free Corps as by the summer in 1948 as this kind of core of original membership was identified and kind of corralled

into this formal structure you know they were they were given SS identification booklets and they were put under the authority of the SS Hauptemt v1,

Department D1. For context, Haupttman's D1 was, they were also responsible for the Germanic SS. These are the guys who formed the Algamine SS in

places like Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands you know any any any Germanic country as per you know

cultural commonality as well as you know according to the Nuremberg laws that defined who was an Aryan you know that's what the Germanic SS was and from the Germanic SS a lot of the

national legions, you know, from these same countries. That's who they, that was the original population they drew upon for volunteers. You know, by 94, like right after the new year, you know, January 944, the British Free Corps, they were fully integrated into the Vofan SS. Like they became like an official, you know, like, SS, Vafin SS element. And at that point, they were given, they were given field gray uniforms, you know, comia fatigues. And they received the shield patch, you know, the national insignia that all like foreign volunteers got. There's had the union jack.

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where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump-Dune-Beg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. You know, um, yeah, it's on my shirt here. Um, the, uh, the, um, national shield patch always went on the left arm. And, uh, their collar patch, uh, with a nod to St. George, it was three lions, you know, which is like the standard of, uh, St. George.

Um, by the end of the war, when they were finally deployed, they also had a they had a cuff title which it said it read in German and English British Free Corps British Fry Corps and then British Free Corps which is interesting

those are really hard to find if if you're somebody who seeks out authentic like Third Reich Militaria if you can find one of those and validate it's authentic like you're you're very lucky and or you've got like very good investigative shops

because they're highly coveted. Just because the British Free Corps is cool. And if you don't think so, like I, you're kind of lame. But the,

it's and and some people make a lot of the fact too, like the British Free Corps did have like really Keenal uniforms. There was other like national legions where it was like more subdued but who were really combat effective

so like the the claim is like oh this was just a propaganda attempted a propaganda coup like yeah it was but that wasn't all it was and the fact it didn't make an impact on the battlefield owed it kind of like a conspiracy of circumstances it wasn't because

Gottler Berger and the SD and and Himmler himself and Carl Wolf, it's not because like they didn't have some intention for it to be you know, a combat capable formation. They absolutely did.

Like the fact that it didn't, the fact that it didn't happen, well, I mean, that, you know, nobody denies that a large catalysts or invidus for its creation was propping end. I mean, that goes without saying, but

there was, there was unique considerations with respect to the UK. Ameri, Ameri is a prestige that didn't exist elsewhere. And I mean, for people, I think it was like some retarded pipe dream or something. I don't know, okay? I mean, it was the final defenders of Berlin were 33 SS. They were much of Frenchmen.

Okay? I mean, like, this was not, um, the Vavana SS was a pan-European army. And there were people who, whose nations were de facto or de jurey at, war with the Reich who you know literally fought to the last man to defend the German Reich it's more complicated than

court historians allow I mentioned a moment ago about the oath that British Free Corps volunteers signed the relevant language is quote I you know the name of the subject

or volunteer being a British subject consider it my duty to offer my services in the common European struggle against communism and hereby apply to enlist in the British Free Corps, which is what I believe was in the minds of most of these guys. You know, I mean, it wasn't being a prisoner and losing your liberty is awful no matter what, but British army prisoners and American POWs until really, night, you know, end of 44, start of 45, when, um, the terror bombing really took its toll and

people started lynching down to airmen. Um, British and American POWs were treated very well. They were treated, uh, in line with, uh, the demands of the Geneva Convention. You know, that's why, uh, I mean, obviously stuff like Hogan's Heroes was goofy, but I know the common refrain is people these days get mad at that show and can't believe it aired on primetime or they act like the great escape with some kind of softball treatment. If you were a Royal Air Force POW or like a US Army or US Army Ergo POW, you weren't being tortured every day. You weren't being thrown in dachau. Like you weren't being like whipped with a cat of nine tails. Like you were being treated like POWs were always treated and according to the, you know,

was failing in consensus, you know, so it wasn't weird that those kinds of settings would be depicted in lighthearted stuff. You know,

it, um, that's, uh, that's important. Um, the, uh,

the British Free Corps, it, it had a kind of confused existence in terms of what command it properly belonged to. In part because the situation was getting very critical. You know, um,

this was 16 months before the day of defeat that it finally was, you know, um, validated, if you will,

as, as a, a Vaf on SS Legion. It, uh, there was some commanders, and especially

later in the war, despite, you know, the party and the SS asserting itself against the Vermacht after the attempt on Hitler's life, you had a lot of power. If you were the equivalent of a colonel or higher in the Vermacht, you know, in the field, you were kind of a law into yourself within reason. So when the British Free Corps showed up, And some of these Panzer Element generals or VafaNSS commanders were said, like, okay, like, you know, these British POWs are joining your command now. They weren't handing it.

You know, they were like, look, like this is going to cause problems. And in the back of their mind, it was like, if we're going to try and negotiate some kind of peace with the ally, before the Red Army burns it all down, if it looks like I'm ordering Englishmen to go into combat, how am I going to explain that? You know, which on the one hand, you could say is kind of fucked up. But on the other hand, it's like, well, any general officer who is commanding men in combat,

his job is to keep those men alive. you know and within reason make sure as many of them get to go home as possible you know that doesn't mean you you forfeit victory conditions to to prioritize that humanistic aspect but if the war is lost anyway and you know accepting these british POWs into your command is going to screw up the odds of you know, the collective fate of the unit, you've got to consider that very seriously. So there's that. There's unsubstantiated rumors that have endured,

and some of this, I believe, to be true, of after the British Free Corps was, for all practical purposes, disbanded individual members, there's people who claim that they fought with them at Berlin. You know, like, they were, they were attached to 33rd SS because they, like, showed up there. Or they were fighting with Volkesterm. Or they were, you know, some, like, older Englishmen, like, older, I mean, like, a proper military age was, like, leading some Hitler-Ugan kids to try to help them break out. I think at least some of that is true, because some of these guys were

never accounted for. And if the Soviet, I guarantee you if the Soviets had captured or killed these guys and the Soviets were obsessed with documenting things, they would have made a big deal about it. They would have been like, you know,

oh, they, the capitalist English are turning against us now. You know, look, look at this. Or, you know, it would have really upset the, uh, the Western allies if I mean, not for not not for moral reasons necessarily, but I mean like it it would have caused a consternation, you know, if they, if they'd come across these guys before the battle of Berlin and they'd been KIA or capture.

This wouldn't have been kept a secret. And, I mean, nobody was getting ID'd at when Berlin got overrun. So, like, who would have known after that, you know, like for decades after there was. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon, and Terramar.

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all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle-Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. Discover five-star luxury at Trump Dunebeg. Unwind in our luxurious spa. Savour sumptuous farm-fresh dining. Relax in our exquisite accommodations.

Step outside and be captivated by the wild Atlantic surrounds. Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dune-Begg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunbiog, Kush Farage. Rolls and rolls at MIA for Zoom dead. And a goodly number of these people have never been identified. So that's definitely not impossible.

Okay. The numbers we're talking about are a few, but they, there are some unaccounted for. The, uh, this is the case that John, Amory. And he was executed by

hanging expeditiously several months after the war in the summer of 29th. And Amory, we're going to know who Amry was in a minute because he plays a significant role

in how this came to pass. And the entire Enterprise, the British Free Corps, such that the documentation I could find about other British subjects, like I'm not from the, not from the empire, I mean, you know, like actual Britons. And when the Battle of France was underway,

there were seven British subjects said to be serving in, various units of the Tottenkopf Vibbon, including in what became third SS Tottenkopf. This is before the Bafn-S.S. It's believed there's at least a handful who served in Lieb-Standard, Adolf Hitler, first SS. And the propaganda and war correspondent unit,

Standard Kurt Eggers That's where James Monty served You know the American defector Who joined the Vafan SS Um It's also believed

That there was two guys Who might have been deserters Who served in the Flag Detachment Of Leaves Stendart, Adolf Hitler Both of whom were apparently awarded

The Iron Cross Second Class there's a book that hasn't been translated about Leipstrandards and specifically the flak detachment that apparently deals with these guys I haven't had time to dig that out yet and work on

translating it as much as I can to interpret what it actually says but the original six of British Free Corps recruits and the guys most known to to the public. The guys who achieved the most prominence, or guess like infamy,

were a guy named Thomas Heller Cooper and Frank McLarty. And both of these guys were British Union of fascist veterans who apparently immediately upon you know, being offered opportunity to join the British Free Corps

did it. And they became important in the effort to recruit more. And this really came back to haunt Mosley. Because even though it's not like there was a great number of

British Union veterans who joined up, there was enough that the narrative became oh well these guys were all a bunch of Mosleyites and look now they're now they're trying to join the third right.

You know, this is one of the things that really harm Moseley's post-war political fortunes. I mean, I don't think, I think Moseley's moment had kind of passed by then anyway, and there's a really good treatment

of this. The seminal biography of Francis Yaki is by Kerry Bolton. That goes without saying, but there's another biography from the late 90s, which is actually great, in its own right, the end notes alone, or a treasure trove of valuable information for researchers. I include myself in that category.

It's by this guy named Kevin Coogan, who was kind of this like left-wing anarchist type guy from the Pacific Northwest. But the book was remarkably balanced, and H. Keith Thompson contributed his testimony. Elsa DeWitt, who was Yaqui's longtime mistress, a bunch of guys who knew James Hartung Maddoll, some contemporaries of George Sylvester Virick. It's a fantastic book. It's called Dreamer of the Day. But he gets into the rivalry between Yaki and Mosley and Moseley's efforts to sabotage Yaki's efforts on the continents. in the aftermath of the day of defeat. And it doesn't cast Mosley in a particularly flattering light. I mean, the historical record doesn't.

It's not Kugan's conceptual prejudice or something. But such that the British Free Corps did see active service in March, 1945, you know, just weeks before the capitulation. There was an attachment of British Free Corps volunteers who deployed with 11th SS, which was Nordland, which consisted primarily as Scandinavian volunteers. They were attached to third SS Panzer Corps, which was under Felix Steiner. Steiner was the commander of Viking, Fifth SS. And Nordland, there's a lot of membership in common in terms of the ethnographic makeup.

You know, Norwegian, Swedes, Danes, some Finns, some Volksstoych. These guys were the records such that they can be cobbled together. and the movements of these men identified with any clarity. They were specifically sent to the reconnaissance battalion, which was under the command of a Swede, a Hans Gosta person. Their squad leader was an SS Sarfier, Douglas Martin. His alias was Hodge. Richard W. Landvere,

who is a great documentary in the VofnSS. He was involved with a lot of veterans' organizations into the 90s, who were producing a lot of material as a kind of counterweight to what court historians were producing. and whatever you think of Richard Landver,

he had unprecedented access to veterans' testimony as well as records, personnel records, original personal records of the Bafin SS and other things. He claims in his book on the British Free Corps that the Britons who were attached to the recon battalion of 11th SS they ended up in the village of Schoenberg

which is on the west bank of the Oder River and presumably these guys wanted action against the Soviets because if they were there I mean they were coming under heavy assault okay in April the entire Panzer Corps was moved to Templin

as you know the long retreat continued. They were then assigned to the transport company of Steiner's headquarters staff. And when Nordland Division left for

Berlin, you know, the final retreat to the capital, as Berlin became a frontline city, as the furor called it, the transport company went to Berlin. And

you know, British free core elements included. Steiner, by April 29th, um, broke contact with the enemy. What remained of, uh, what remained of,

of third Panzer was, uh, was engaged, uh, counter the Redd Army. And he did that with the intention, uh, to try and surrender,

um, you know, to the, to the Americans, uh, and or the English. Thomas Heller Cooper and Fred Croft, who were two members of the British Free Corps

with Steiner's Transport Company, they surrendered on the 2nd of May to the 121st Inventry Regiment. The rest of them, it's entirely possible these guys died fighting in Berlin. You know, because the record puts them there. For context of what I mentioned earlier about these reports of some of these guys, you know, being in Berlin, you know, in the final days and hours.

Okay, we still got a few minutes. Kind of the roots of this ultimately, you know, like I said, this was a longstanding, this was derived out of a longstanding desire or recognition of the need, or probably, perhaps, of the furor, his staff. the foreign ministry, elements of the military and the SS, you know, who understood that there needs to be something to conquer with the United Kingdom. Otherwise, this grand ambition

of national socialism is not going to be realized. So, early on, um, the Reich foreign ministry around 1942, um,

they set up, uh, in Berlin, they set up this kind of study group to try and cultivate contact and build relations with dissident elements in the UK or at least sympathetic elements to the Reich

against the Soviet Union and against the war party then led by Churchill and specifically they wanted to cultivate guys and women who were part of the establishment and preferably part of the nobility some funds were given to the Duke of Bedford

Edward Godfrey and he proceeded to set up the original British National Party which later you know the B&P as we know it was like John Tyndall's outfit and then later like Nick Griffin who I think it's kind of a con man you know

became Hancho that obviously they were invoking the legacy of the original BNP, but they said nothing to do with them. This is something totally different. This British National Party, they became this pressure group demanding a settlement with Hitler, like a negotiated peace. And the war party, and specifically the home office, they really freaked. doubt. They're like, this is a revival of the British Union of fascists. This is a fifth column. You know, these people are trying to overthrow the government. And, but it garnered, for what it was, it garnered a chorus sympathy beyond what people might think was possible, especially

consider that, you know, 18B, as well as the reformed treason law, which, provided for, you know, a mandatory death penalty for a very kind of loosely defined range of conduct that it could be demonstrated, that provided aid and comfort to the enemy. You know, obviously the hope of the foreign ministry and the SD was that, you know, kind of like the 9,000 or 10,000 core members, the BUF, who were presumably still active would flock to this British National Party, you know, and as Britain's fortunes continue to decline on the battlefield, you know, this would be sufficient to kind of plant the seed that would ultimately bring down the war party, which seems like a long shot, but, you know, like I said, this actually did gain some traction,

much as it was blown out of proportion by the home office. These guys also, the British National Party, they started a newspaper called The Patriot, which made headlines by setting up a fund, an 18B detainees aid fund. you know, and this was, in those days, there was still a pretty strong tradition, particularly among society types of respecting civil liberties and stuff. A lot of people were appalled at Mosley and some of these other guys and women had been, you know,

in ceremoniously locked up. And what amounted to do a, you know, and what amounted into a concentration camp for indefinite duration. This was intended to become the nucleus of, you know, a political movement. The Home Secretary in the War I'm Coalition was Herbert Stanley Morrison. And he really agitated about the purported threat posed by this issue to report that December, that claim that fascism in London was resurgent, you know, that there's going to be imminent pogroms against Jews, that the threat of sea lion has never abated,

you know, that there's an active fifth column within that's in direct contact with the enemy, and they have social pedigree, and that renders them untouchable and we're all in grave danger. You know, and this environment really continued until around 1944. You know, when in a rare moment of clarity through the haze of delusion and alcoholism and cynicism, Churchill basically said you've got to scale back on this on this kind of propaganda

because it's going to stoke sympathy for these people which was entirely correct and for clarity too because not a lot's written about this by the time the war was well underway after the Vermeck was halted at the gates of Moscow,

after America joined the war in earnest, Hitler in 1942, he met with Paul Otto Smith, who had a lot of cloud at the foreign ministry. He was an interpreter. He'd been at one of the first world economic forums, I think, in 1933. and he was fluent in French. When Hitler had to talk to Antonescu, who ironically, they were close friends

and Antonescu was Hitler's best ally. He wasn't as personally close to him as he was to Mussolini, but Antonescu was definitely Hitler's best military ally, and they had a great mutual respect. But Hitler didn't speak Romanian, Antonescu didn't speak German, but Antonescu spoke French. So, like, Hitler would, so Schmidt would translate, and Schmidt didn't speak Romanian either, but he was fluent in French and English, as well as a slew of other languages.

So Paul Otto Schmidt would interpret for the furor and then relayed in French to Antonescu, who did answer in French, and then Schmidt would relay back in German. But Schmidt headed up the England committee. you know, to try and, as I mentioned a minute ago, to try and cultivate, you know, an alliance with a sympathetic cadre among British society types. And, you know, Hitler's, you know, and what Hitler said in, Hitler privately told Borman, you know, like, kind of unpleasant of a character as Borman was.

There's a reason why, you know, he took on Hess's role as essentially party secretary and gatekeeper of access to the furor. And Hitler could fight them a fair amount. And, you know, Hitler said in early 9 to 42, he said, you know, he said it's definitely possible that Churchill will fall. And he's like, we need to do everything we can to facilitate that. But he's, you know, he said it's not going to accomplish anything unless, you know, we have, quote, men like Mosley in reserve and a cadre around them. Hitler said, quote, when I think that Mosley and more than 9,000 of his supporters, including some belonging to the best families, are facing prison because they didn't want this war. You know, he said that that's unconscionable.

but also we can use that in our favor. You know, but he said it's essential that we cultivate this cadre. It's not enough to just kind of, you know, for some sort of return of veterans from the McDonald, the Ramsey McDonald government, the National Coalition, you know, bringing down Churchill because the war is a disaster. You know, we, because there's no guarantee there. Like, we need an alliance. you know, we need people

or ideologically committed, which was absolutely correct, you know, in terms of what the Reich had to pull off. I mean, which, yes, that was a complete long shot. And Hitler made match, and he said that, like, we need a Cromwell, which is really interesting. And, I mean, Hitler obviously

had read his Carlisle. But that was the climate. And yeah, that's, I guess I can stop there. Yeah, I love those new Scattershot. That's essentially the story of the British Free Corps. It's hard to piece together, like I said. I think I've got better research shops than many men.

But it's an esoteric topic. There's a lot of, like, kind of lured stuff written about it in the 70s. Like, there's this paperback from the 77 called Hitler's Jackals. I got it somewhere here. It's just this, like, there's like no citations. It's this crazy stuff. It's, you know, it's like something out of some grindhouse Nazi exploitation movie. And I'm going to be wrong.

I like that kind of stuff. But it does not help if we're trying to identify, you know, facts on the historical record. So this is what I could put together because this topic is like a pet kind of obsession of mine, like many esoteric things. So, yeah, I, unless people are. really truly thirsty for more Oswald Mosley or have like questions they want me to cover or clarify I think we can move on from Oswald Mosley and the uh the British Free Corps question about um the American and the British press how much were the how much during the war were they reporting on the how international the German army was it's hard to say um Um, everything, in the United States, anything, uh, that the press wanted to cover relating to the war, it had to go through the OWI, the Office of War Information, you know, and they had, um, you know, they, they, they wouldn't allow, um, photographs of dead Americans to be shown. And when somebody, when somebody snuck some through, that was a huge deal. And, uh, it was, I was, odd, like, what they objected to do and what they didn't. But the consistent,

uh, kind of the consistent pattern, the way they cast the Germans, and part of this owed to, part of this owed to the, the delegate situation of, like, having to negotiate with Darlaan in like North Africa, who wasn't actually, who was a fascist.

They kind of had to pretend that this is the German army, you know, and yeah, there's some turncoat volunteer. here is helping the SS, but these are the Hans just oppressing everybody. You know,

there was kind of, without the omissions of the fact that this was a, there was a million non-Germans under arms, like the omission of that from what was being reported kind of speaks for itself.

You know, like in the case of, in the case of UK propaganda, it's a bit more, nuanced, but I mean, a lot of there's prejudices in Britain against you know, like during World War I despite the fact that like Bismarkey

in Germany, which Valhelma in Germany was very much the legacy of and Valhelm's wife wouldn't even let Catholics in their house, but they're trying to kind of cast like the Hans in World War I is like these retrograde like Catholic brutes you know, who are, you know, they're, they're not in the modern age, like, like, civilized people are. And there was some aspect of that, you know, kind of caricaturing, like, the haunt is sort of like, the stand-in for, like, European barbarism.

But, yeah, and stuff that went to the OWI, you never saw, like, any statement of, like, you know, yeah, there's, like, a bunch of, you know, there's a, you know, there's a, there's a, there's, There's a bunch of Kazakhs and Romanians and Italians and Frenchmen and Norwegians, you know, like engaging the U.S. Army right now. There was like none of that. Not to mention the French that were the first to engage the American forces. Yeah, an African-Torish, yeah, exactly. They were just like Nazi forces. All right.

Well, if people want to do a Q&A, we'll see what kind of questions. I'll throw it out there for people to let questions roll in. And if there's enough, if there's enough, we can be a Q&A. But, yeah, otherwise we'll move on from this, as I think it was a great topic. And like, we didn't expect this to go seven episodes. But, but it, no, it's perfectly fine. I think we had enough comments of people saying, yeah, I'm glad it did.

So, yeah, just do plugs real quick and blend. Yeah, for sure. my substacks real thomas seven seven seven seven that substack.com that's my main platform and I am at long last like uploading the movie that my friend tonight made the first Thomas TV like proper episode you know it's a couple hours long

I had to figure out the best way to monetize it I'll explain and I promise I will upload it this weekend There was a couple of delays. And I'm dealing with, like, identity theft of bullshit now and, like, my business bank account. I shouted this out on a sit-wrap on substitute, which is nobody's problem but my own. And I'm indemnified. It'll be fine. It's just a hassle.

And obviously, because it's my business account, I can't, like, link anything to it until it bullshit gets resolved. So, but it's common. I promise. Thanks for being patient. And on social media, my alt is at capital R-E-A-L underscore number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777. And that's where you can find me. Or you can search me under my government name, and I will come up. Until the next subject.

Thank you so much, man. Take care. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for hosting me, man.