The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1200: The Dulles Brothers and the Founding of the CIA w/ Philos Miscellany and Stormy Waters - Part 2

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

2 Hours and 35 MinutesPG-13Stormy Waters is a managing partner of a venture capital firm.Philo's Miscellany has a YouTube channel in which he reviews rare books.Philos and Stormy join Pete to discuss the Dulles brothers providing background and information on the formation of the Central Intelligence Agency. This concludes the discussion.Philo's YouTube ChannelStormy's Twitter AccountPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Thank you. Well, welcome, everyone, back to the Pete Cignanese show. I've been waiting for part two. Glad we could do it now. Stormy, how are you doing? I'm doing fantastic. It's a pleasure. Phylos, how are you?

Also doing excellent. It's great to be here. Awesome. All right. Part two talking about the Dulles brothers and the CIA. And Phylos, you remember where we left off. So please, just jump right in. I do.

So where we left off was we were going through the early 1950s in the CIA and how the U.S. military had been infiltrated. by the agency and how a lot of these different points of information that we have access to today are because there's a lack of classification over them. And there's a few kind of smaller stories about their activities. And a big takeaway also is James Jesus Angleton. So just to kind of jog the audience's memory there, pretty obviously associated with Israel and all the different operations. So there's many different angles we could work on today with this. I'd like to still keep going through the 1950s in the agency and talking about a guy called Lyman Kirkpatrick.

But before I get into that, there is another subject I want to talk about, which is, how do I kind of couch this? In reading about the Doless Brothers, there's, there. There's all of these lefty and progressive sources that are written describing these men as fascist and authoritarian and oppressive for going around the world, knocking over native governments and causing regime change. And I wanted to just very briefly address some of the more critical perspectives against the Dulles brothers and against the CIA in the 50s. because so much of what we know nowadays, so much of our perception of these men and their activities is colored by a bunch of lefty academics. So if you two are cool with that,

I can kind of go through a few academic presuppositions and I guess kind of debunk upon. I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with my intelligence agency, toppling Nicaragua and Guatemalan, and hundering governments whenever they want to fuck with united fruit or standard oil so this is where it uh this is where i imagine we're going to find some agreement so the first critical lefty presupposition that you find in guys like david talbot in the devil's chess board or the chomsky

angle of things is that all colonialism that happens in the world is bad or evil but rather than calling out these other systems like the Chinese system or the Russian system or the British system or the French system, they'll go after the United States because the way that the United States conducts colonialism is, I would argue, actually more beneficial than all of those other systems. Something that's curiously absent from most progressives is criticizing other forms of regime change and economic dominance. I would argue that the Dulles brothers going into Guatemala and Nicaragua and a lot of these other CIA activities, even the Cuban revolution, it's actually much more benevolent and respectful of a culture's autonomy than

other countries conducting colonialism. And how can I possibly justify that when there's people getting killed. Well, what the Chinese do when they impose colonialism on a country is they take out a 100-year lease on infrastructure development for ports and highways and wholly cut out the native population. They conduct widespread economic exploitation of whatever country in Africa or Southeast Asia or Latin America that they go into. And a similar system with the Russia. and the Soviets. They would come in and impose their ideological change. But generally, as long as a country was nominally communist, they wouldn't care as much about the economic production that's going on there. And before I try and really defend American colonialism, I have to describe the

British and the French background here a little bit. So the world in which the Dulles brothers are operating is the beginning of the post-colonial world in the 20th century. Prior to the 1960s, most of the world was directly administered in a colonial fashion. And most of that was done by the British or the French or the Americans. And the British system was they would pick a country and they would establish a cast of people within that country. They would point to them and say, this group is wider or more Anglo or more ready to be westernized than another ethnic group.

And then that first group would receive power. And then they would totally dominate the second group by using British colonial administrative structure with like a nominal overcast of British administrative officials. This is why the British promoted the caste system within India. and then conversely you have the French system. And in the French system, you have a very strict colonial apparatus, particularly this was in French West Africa, and the French would come in with their system of Napoleonic Code and their departments,

and they would entirely staff the colonial regime on an indigenous meritocracy within that country. And it's very unpopular nowadays to defend that kind of Western colonialism, against its alternative forms. But one thing I kind of arrived at when researching the activities of the Dulles brothers, I sort of realized that the modern liberal calculus of just economically desecrating countries and having the IMF and the World Bank go around in crater world economies in the 1990s and 2000s by allowing a Jewish international capital to buy like a native state-owned

enterprise. Um, that's actually significantly more harmful in the long term than a short term regime change that the Dolos brothers were doing. Uh, it's a pretty controversial statement. So do either of you have any, uh, thoughts on that?

That's stormy. I do actually. So, um, first of all, like the in this analysis they are basically weighing one thing that's not real and is never going to be real and then what we do right because if i am let's say like an alien civilization right and i zip up and i find earth and let's say i find earth six thousand years of ago. I have, I'm, everyone would expect me to just take whatever the fuck I wanted. And that,

that is the things that would naturally happen. And so the, there is not like an alternative, not in actual real politics where we just come across either strategically valuable, real estate, whether it be location or in minerals, resources, whichever, that we can leverage in actual life or death competition with the other developed nation states. It's a game of, it's, it's, it's geopolitics is like the fucking Highlander. There's only going to be one. and when there's not, there's going to be great struggle. And eventually, we hope that some of these struggles balance each other out, right?

And it's just infinity stalemate. But any one of those participants, their aim is not infinity stalemate. Their aim is survival. And the only way to ensure a nation's survival is to crush its enemies. politics is what it's friend and enemy and so there are no neutral countries and if you're undeveloped you don't get to be neutral right we have no reason to recognize your sovereignty you have something that is valuable you are unable to stop us from taking it if we don't take it our enemy will take it and use it

it against us. So that's the actual alternative. Like, there is no alternative reality where we just go, oh, this is the Suez Canal. This may be really important. Well, these guys don't look like they can get their shit together. So I guess we'd set the fuck off home then, huh? Like, that's not a reality. So the reason the lefties criticized only America is because we're the biggest and we're the best and they hate greatness. If another country was the biggest and the best, they would hate that country more than us. They need to align themselves with the victim, therefore they cannot align themselves with the hegemon. So there is no non-colonial eventuality.

So that's, I think, what needs to happen as far as any type. Hold on one second. I have a screaming cat that's about to get tossed outside for being a brat. Take it from there. File out. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive. By design.

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and there's Gala to give a small father Giot in Ergird I'm at Tawki in Woonaha with Fuenifunah.

Tawosch Ruehackin onus a hundred people tariff in Tashty there's Ereve to Aweggone.

Fulam Nis more in Ergit Pongahy It's just something that came up as I encountered this strange hall of mirrors, especially when reading the David Talbot book

and Chomsky, because it looks at, it looks at like a very small Latin American or African or Southeast Asian country and says they are just one Western educated communist away from being

a utopia. You know, especially when they're talking, and we'll get into Guatemala a little bit, later, but the way that they refer to Guatemala is that even though this country, and most colonial powers since really the year 1800s, since the Industrial Revolution, there's just been, even in the era of like after Bolivar in the 1820s, there's continuous regime change between what is at the time very far right and very far left regimes, the overall cycle of regimes within these different countries

far outpaces, anything that the United States is able to even really conceive of. Okay, real quick, let me interject. The reason why the, the reason why the easiest way that you can defend the U.S. system of colonialism versus any other, right, is simply because we are going to keep toppling. So why did we rebuild Europe? Why was that important?

to us. It wasn't because we particularly love French people and we know how, you know, the people that were running the show felt about German people at that time. Yes, there was people that did not feel that way, Q. Allen Dulles and John Foster, but we rebuilt those nations at considerable expense because there is not more fertile ground. More fertile ground does not exist anywhere in the world for communist revolution than a bombed out shithole. Bombed out shithole is about as good as it gets. It is a revolutionaries wet dream.

And all the countries in South and Central America at the time were bombed out shitholes, either bombed out by themselves or just shitholes de facto. Either way, it's fertile ground for communist revolution. As you can see, because communism just catches very, very quickly. So if we are in a life or death struggle against the Soviet Union, we have two options. I think Thomas lays it out great, Pete, when I think you guys were talking about Vietnam. at the point in time that you're talking about Philo in the 50s and later in the 60s, the U.S. was losing to communism.

Communists were talking up W after W after W after W all across the Eurasian landmass and in Africa. So the we just don't fuck with these countries in our own backyard is not an option. It's not. We're not going to become a garrison nation. And no leader, no responsible leader of the American nation would in any good conscience do that or allow that to take place. If there's any place that needs to be toppled, it's the one in your own backyard. If there is a country full of resources or just really real estate that is the country that you can't turn around and just, you know, let them exist, however, it's the one that is directly

connected to you via land. Right? The reason that the U.S. is in the defensible position that it is, is because the people that hate us happen to have an ocean in between us and them. So creating a situation where they no longer have an ocean between us and them isn't simply not allowed. So we didn't go impose some harsh caste system. Like Philo mentioned, we didn't do that.

the terrible French way, which, I mean, still goes on today, by the way. Everybody should check out the West African Frank. We didn't do any of these. We just did a test of anti-fragility. Philo, like Fylo just said, we're going to keep on toppling these until you can fucking build one or assemble one that is resilient to communism. And you're going to try. and it's not going to be resilient, and then it's going to be taken over or begin to be taken over by communists,

and then we're going to topple that one again. And eventually, you will have a government that's able to defend itself from communism, that you built yourself. Right? So we are forcing them, right? The U.S. is acting as the rapid evolutionary forcing function for resilience. like yes, U.S. companies will do business there. The fact that there are U.S. companies that do business there is actually what stops the communists from invading or trying to take it over. Right. The same reason

that Trump's like, yeah, I'm not going to try and put troops in Ukraine, but I'm going to put businesses in Ukraine. I think it's a dumb idea because fuck Ukraine, frankly. But if we're talking about Monroe Doctrine, like my backyard, then I do care. Right. But putting business businesses in Ukraine is his way of not putting troops. It is as much of a tripwire, right? So once a U.S. business is there in Ukraine, if Putin comes in and tries to take it away, it gives you the diplomatic leeway to act the same way as if you had troops there. So the population, since the hypothesis of us not taking them in a colonialist effort does not exist in reality.

we have two options. We either stationed troops there or poor capital into the country, right? No matter how many troops we stationed there, that's never going to develop the country anymore. We'll take what we want, but there will be no knockdown. There will be no second and third order effects that benefit anybody else there. Right. So business is always going to be better than bullets. And rather than imposing a form of government, we will allow one to form organically. and if it ever ceases to be, you know, able to defend itself against communism, we're going to knock it over again. And we'll keep knocking the Sandcastle over it until they build one that works. But the key factor in there is they built it, not us.

So just on its face, the U.S.'s form of colonialism is the best. If we're viewing the, you know, happy feels of the name. natives as, you know, the prime judging mechanism. Personally, I think other forms of colonialism would have been a lot more easy to administer because none of that optionality would have been given to the native population, nor would anybody care about their feelings. But if we're judging by the feels of the brown people in these places, then the U.S. is by far the most superior.

And the non-colonial option doesn't actually exist. It's false. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon, and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2,000 euro.

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Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunbiog, Kosh Farage. Exactly. And there is not a peep about the Chinese exploitation of Sri Lanka. And that's a very niche example, but everywhere that China goes and does business in an undeveloped country, it will build extractive infrastructure. And when it can, it will not interact with the native populace at all. It will not give them a dime.

And the people, the Chinese nationals that exit China to go live in a place like, you know, wherever in Africa, to go mine resources and put them on Chinese trucks on Chinese highways to go to a Chinese port in another country. When you ask them, where are they in the world? They will look at you and tell you China. And there's a reason for that. There is no autonomy or sovereignty with any other model of colonialism. That's a very, it's a very interesting distinction there. I'd like to pivot back to the Central Intelligence Agency and the Dulles Brothers. Let's see here.

So there's something to point out very recently, to tie it in. Trump recently appointed all of his cabinet level officials. They all went through Congress. Most of them got approved, and they were all sworn in on television. And usually when someone, a cabinet level secretary, is confirmed by Congress, they give a brief speech after being sworn in by the president of the Congress in this case, J.D. Vance. You know, usually it's about five or ten minutes. There's some media appearances, and then they get to work.

Well, the current director of Central Intelligence is a man named John Ratcliffe. And so J.D. Vance gets up there before the swearing in. And Vance says, quote, normally after I administer the oath, I would invite the new guy to say a few words. But given that he's the leader of the CIA, John Ratcliffe is not going to give any remarks, because every piece of knowledge in his brain is actually classified. So he's going to head straight to Langley and do the job that the American people need him to do. That's a very interesting position. How could a cabinet-level official in front of the vice president say no words, give no speech,

be accountable, not at all, to the media, and simply walk out of the room at the behest of the vice president? That is because, as I explain the position of the director of, the director of, Central Intelligence. It will be very clear that this is, depending on who you ask, the second or third most powerful man in the country, period. And that all begins with Alan Dulles. The question has to be asked. Who is the director of Central Intelligence? Who staffed the Central Intelligence Agency between 1947 and 1961 that such a man of such power could come from it and enter into a position to run it. Well, there's three generations of men that are present in the Central Intelligence Agency at this time.

The first is a senior group. These are American military men and corporate men, either in finance or law, that generally served in World War I and who had vast foreign contact networks. These men I found in reading biographies and direct histories of the agency are exceptionally competent, worldly, and political. The second generation of men were the World War II OSS guys. These are highly plugged into military. They are extreme experts in the state of global affairs and also covert operations.

To them, they are the hammer to which every problem is a nail. And the third group, the group that begins to come into the CIA as it is set up, is the new recruits. These are the people that are enrolled in the junior agency office training program. According to Lyman Kirkpatrick, this training program rivaled the best executive development programs in the industry, Procter and Gamble. when someone in the late 1940s and early 50s goes into the Central Intelligence Agency, an entire year is devoted to formal training, followed by three years of control and guidance by the Office of Training. And what kind of people are recruited into the Central Intelligence Agency?

According to a 1951 House Appropriations meeting, some of the most recruited quality men in the CIA were actually FBI agents and military officers and men from corporate fields, that I think is very interesting that the CIA would be going into all other government agencies and poaching their best people. And I want to elucidate an example of a man who is detailed by L. Fletcher Prouty.

And that man's name is Lyman Kirkpatrick, because I think the trajectory of his career really shapes out how the Central Intelligence Agency is taking shape at this time. Why should you care about him in relation to Dulles? Well, he was the executive assistant to the prior director of Central Intelligence, General Walter Biddell-Smith. And he was also the Inspector General of the CIA appointed by Dulles. This man also created the Defense Intelligence Agency, and he, He also wrote the Keystone Report on the Bay of Pigs' invasion.

So the reason that you should give a shit about liming Kirkpatrick is that he is the highest authority in the Central Intelligence Agency that wrote a detailed primary source book after his service. And he's also one of the very few men, one of three, that Al Fletcher Proudy believes, realistically depicts the interfunctioning of the CIA. And we'll start off with how he was recruited into the agent. Prior to the 1970s, really intelligent people would be recruited on merit. It's kind of the opposite today.

It takes about two years to get into the agency. Kirkpatrick was recruited. Okay, so I'll just give a brief exposition of his life. He wrote a book in 1969 called The Real CIA, where he details all this. So Kirkpatrick graduates from Princeton in June of 1938, and he was urged by his boss, a former naval aviator. to apply for a commission in the Naval Air Intelligence. He gets rejected by the Navy for being mildly colorblind in May of 1940. And through a friend, he's introduced to Wild Bill Donovan.

At the time in 1940, Donovan is heading up the Office of Coordination of Information. Based on the interview, Donovan really, really wants this Kirkpatrick guy on board. Kirkpatrick knows this because as he is hanging around federal buildings trying to get a job after being rejected by the Navy, an agent comes up from the Civil Service Commission and flashes a badge. Kirkpatrick looks at this badge and he realizes that this is a fake person. And if you recall during part one of this series, the Central Intelligence Agency and also the old OSS was very adept at getting fake people created to staff government agencies and the military. This is a tool that they're able to use to get information out of people.

So this man who walks up to Kirkpatrick does not actually work for the Civil Service Commission. He knows the investigator is obviously a little new. And he's investigating on behalf of Donovan's organization to try and find out Kirkpatrick's background. Kirkpatrick knows this because the investigator mistakes him for his boss. And so this man comes up to Kirkpatrick and says, you know, what's, you know, are, you know, do you work with Kirkpatrick? And he goes, well, yeah, you know, where's this going to go? The first question is, did Kirkpatrick's attitude towards the war change any after Russia became involved? This question was asked in right after, I think, Operation Barbarossa in early 1942.

And why would a spook interviewer's first question be about Russia in 1942? Why wouldn't it be some kind of allegiance towards the Nazis or some kind of overall sympathy with communism? I'm reminded Sturmey of your point that all of the really involved players in World War II were concerned about the Soviet Union right from the start. So he goes through this brief questioning process, and then he doesn't really think much of it. He's being vetted at this point by several government agencies. He then gets a call very mysteriously from the Secretary of the Navy himself.

So at this point, Kirkpatrick isn't in any government agency or service. He's just agreed to work in Donovan's department. and the Secretary of the Navy asks this, basically this nobody, come into my office and you and I are going to have a talk. So he comes in and very quickly, he's sitting in front of the Secretary of the Navy. The Secretary asks him, how would you like to be commissioned tomorrow as a Navy ensign? And Kirkpatrick says, no, I've agreed to join what will become the OSS. And the Secretary of the Navy leans over his desk and he says, don't go into that cruise. crazy outfit, because there's no rules and there's no regulation. So Kirkpatrick, again,

similar to the fake military personnel, gets a direct commission in the army, even though he's not in the military, and he was rejected from the Navy. So he has a very illustrious career in World War II, and as a fake army lieutenant, he is personally advising General Patton and General Bradley. and then through his meteoric rise, he eventually becomes the number three man at the Central Intelligence Agency. So why does this matter? Why does this one man, his trajectory matters? Well, it's sort of an archetype for how the Central Intelligence Agency could orchestrate control over different aspects of government in order to bring the most meritocratic person to their operation. And this was the thrust as the organization was beginning to coalesce together after the war as well.

And I want to bring up, to contextualize Dulles, I want to bring up briefly the previous Director of Central Intelligence. And that is a man named General Walter Biddell Smith, who was DCI from October of 1950 to February of 1953. interestingly, when Dolis replaces him as DCI, Smith goes on to join the board of United Fruit Company. Very interesting little fact there. The mood at the time when General Smith was DCI was that the Korean War was the final blow needed to force the United States to revitalize its defense establishment

and also to build a modern intelligence system. And at Smith's right hand is Alan D.C. Dulles. So General Smith arrives in D.C. in October of 1950, and he calls Dulles at his law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, and he says verbatim, you wrote the report on the CIA, now come to Washington, and help me implement it. At this time in the Central Intelligence Agency in 1950, there are two units operating overseas. The clandestine collection is by the Office of Special Operations and the covert operations are conducted by the Office of Policy Coordination. The OSO has elements of State Department and DOD, but the Office of Policy Coordination is just agency.

So under Dolis' direction, he consolidates these two halves, and that's where the recruitment of people to sort of act as fake military members or government officials becomes entirely the purview of the CIA. So to make this make sense, he is removing administrative control from non-CIA departments in order to create more ambiguity about getting people involved overseas that represent those departments. because you don't want somebody who reports into State Department saying, hey, there's a guy walking around here who's claiming to be a member of the State Department. Do you have him on record? Well, no, he's actually agency.

That no longer is a problem. So General Smith is initially opposed to wanting both of these things combined, the special operations and the policy coordination combined into one organization. but Dolis has been pushing for this since May of 1948. And in June of 1951, he combines the Latin American divisions of these two departments as the first keystone move. Now, early in his career, Dolis had manned the Latin America desk of the State Department. And that becomes very critical as you start to get into the United Fruit Company in Guatemala later on. you catch them in the corner of your eye

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authority over the entire intelligence community. It's been claimed that Dulles was, you know, threading many different bureaucratic parts within the agency. But honestly, a more objective look, and this is according to Richard Helms personally, that all that Dolos ever gave a shit about was operations.

He cared about how to recruit KGB officers. He cared about the vulnerabilities among cooperative foreign governments, how to get information from friendly intelligence services, and he didn't really care about the line items of multi-million dollar budgets. And why does he have this free bureaucratic movement? Well, after Eisenhower created the president's board of consultants on foreign intelligence activities, Dulles suggests, you know, he creates this board to consult on these activities. Every single person, all 10 members of this board are handpicked by Dulles.

So they have complete control over him, over the activities of the committee. and they're trying to also pat him on the back. They're putting him Dulles more and more into the White House. And the other close coordination that Dulles had to access at this time period was his brother, John Foster Dulles, is Secretary of State, and he wants an activist CIA. So Dulles himself is very, very good at conducting these operations. But there's a vulnerability.

There's a setback. And this is from Lyman Kirkpatrick, who he has a meteoric rise in the Central Intelligence Agency. He would have been director, but he contracted polio on assignment in Southeast Asia in 1952. And this precludes him from really being able to rise to a position. The Kirkpatrick writes that in early 1954, McCarthy is continuing to attack the Central Intelligence Agency because supposedly there's a whole bunch of communists that are present. This is something that comes up very frequently with McCarthy.

His tactic is to point to a government administration and say that there's a secret cabal internally that is a group of communists it's all working to advance the communist agenda. Now, for the most part, that's completely accurate and true, but it's not true for the Central Intelligence Agency. And Dolis takes this very personally. He's extremely anti-communist. The unbeknownst to McCarthy, and according to Kirkpatrick, the CIA had been completely and thoroughly investigated after World War II for communist activity, regardless of employment or the security.

security clearances that anyone within the Central Intelligence Agency had held. So Dolis knew that, for the most part, everyone at the CIA was pretty clean in terms of communist activity at the time, according to Kirkpatrick. But Dolis goes further. He sits down at a meeting. I wouldn't call it a meeting. It's more of a convention. He puts 600 agency employees in a room with him.

and he says to all of them directly that he will fire anybody who goes to McCarthy without his personal authorization. Dulles also notes in a different source that, quote, since I have been with the CIA, a mountain of hard evidence on communist intrigue has passed over my desk. Soviet spies have been operating in the United States for more than 40 years, and the apparatus all over the world went into high gear. for the Cold War. So that explains the emphasis on the anti-communist tendency within the Central Intelligence Agency. And they would end up doing much more pro-lefty activities after the Dolos brothers are outed. But there's another quote here that is from a book called The Cultural Cold War, which claims that the CIA influenced and infiltrated.

the cultural sphere of the left-wing progressives and bankrolled them everyone from Isaiah Berlin to Jackson Pollock to Bertrand Russell to Sartra. They were all in the CIA payroll. And while people might associate that with Dulles, that's actually not quite true.

In the book it says about men like Dulles that these men like Dulles, quote, schooled in the principles of a robust intellect, athletic prowess, blightesse noblege, and solid Christian ethics, they took their example from men like the Reverend Endicott Peabody. Trained in the Christian virtues and the duties of privileged, they emerged believing in democracy,

but wary of unchecked egalitarianism. Revercing, this was the elect that had not been elected. So, a lot of the other I'm gonna I guess I'm straying a little bit but basically these guys were extremely motivated internal to their own agency to get rid

of the communism that was present and how they actually conducted these operations well okay they had a legal network that was also present in the agency it was very limited in its scope

and its manpower right this is the more espion side of the House. Every important American embassy and consulate has its quota of CIA men who are given a cover rank but whose work escapes diplomatic discipline. The CIA legal operative reports directly to Washington. His job like his Soviet counterpart is to recruit illegal agents, build up contacts with non-governmental forces in the country, and collect information through sources not available to the regular embassy staff. So this begins to create kind of an elite class of people within the CIA. So you have the analyst side of the house, which is,

usually you have a country desk where you have anywhere between half a dozen to a dozen experts on any given country. They all have a specialty area for that country. One person is very, very knowledgeable about the economics of a country. The other knows a great deal about the religion. Another person knows about the recent history and political situation of the country, and those people form an analyst collective about the country, which then will create intelligence reports based off of mostly open source intelligence information, and sometimes clandestinely gathered information like satellite activity. I should also stress that this is prior, for the most part, I think Stormy can correct me. This is prior to

a lot of the psychic activities that were going on at the agency. I know that they had MK Ultra, and I listened to Astrol's episode on that, but I'm not an expert in that area, so I'm not going to overextend myself on that front. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items, all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-haves. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself.

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Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland And now this is over the same year. It's leargoal gilor guea and not art gree in on-duin and lehanda gala to give a timelphada

Gawl to Deiardin. In Ergird, we're dig tour in one-wunah with funif in one-of-eanah. There's oathed o'clock lecturer in a hundred hundred lecturers,

on the Skaed to all the nine, and people tariff at the time. It's a cooctuagin.

Full of Nis-mo in Ergrid Pongahy. Um, I will... It started in the, uh, in the, uh, in the late 60s, early 70s.

Sure, okay, so... It also came out of... It also came out of... Another thing is that while this is happening in the CIA, another thing that you,

another group that you will butt into when you butt into the CIA, which is a lot harder to find anything on, frankly, is the naval intelligence. And so naval intelligence kind of sits in the background. Right. So as he's describing all this, keep in mind that all of the branches of the military

have kept and grown their own intelligence agencies internally. and they're the only people with equally as unlimited and equally as unchecked and equally as classified budgets. So sometimes these groups will overlap. Remote viewing, I believe, came out of the Pentagon first. And it would kind of track with the overall trajectory of the intelligence community because this number three man at the CIA, Lyman Kirkpatrick, he found the defense. intelligence agency in the 1950s. He's responsible. He's called the father of the DIA by people within that community. And there's not much defense department in the defense

intelligence agency, though. Sure. I mean, it's, it's mostly, I'd have to like double check the information there, but it's a lot of O&I, right? Yep. Yeah, I mean, that, because that makes sense because the office prior to I have a book on the origins of the OSS it's the big internal CIA one that had to be gone through twice

before they were able to publish it by Troy Baker I think that one detailed A good example is like the defense the both Office of Naval Naval Intelligence had their own

I guess Warren commission all right that was strictly internal for them and you still can't get the classified, not even a single freaking page of it, including the Trump administration can't get it. I know that they were the dominant intelligence force in the country prior to World War II. I mean, that was it. There was, and also, if you look, you know, I think kind of the hidden story about Kirkpatrick's recruitment is that, and it's very interesting.

So there's this unspearlestable. subtext of a relationship between the Navy and the recruitment apparatus within the OSS. Right. So the Secretary of the Navy Knox, he knows, I mean, he is informed the next day, you know, because he calls this candidate, this Kirkpatrick guy, because if OSS wants him, he's been rejected to be an naval candidate, the only way he can secure his loyalty is, you know, he says, hey, do you want a commission tomorrow? I mean, that's, I mean, and that sounds,

um, people might not appreciate just how major of, like that doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. I mean, like the president calling you. Exactly. It would literally be like the president of the United States calling you saying, hey, do you want a job tomorrow? Right.

So there's, there's, there's, there's many things going behind the scenes. Um, and who knows who's at the universities too, man. If you notice all the CIA guys tend to come out of where. the CIA leadership, right?

So I guess you can say like the class structure within the CIA, so to speak. At the time, they're all coming out of Yale and Princeton. Yeah. Yep. Um, how come we never see like a West Point or any of the other, um, military academies, which are far harder to get into than Yale. I would imagine, well, I would never see those guys mentioned. My guess is that, um,

they've already been indoctrinated with DOD thinking. The methodology of war gaming things. And, you know, they've also been trained very hierarchically and within a very legacy, oh yeah, all these guys were potent. These are all,

most important thing. There's a great book called Wise Men by Walter Isaacson. It details how all these guys, you know, all the World War I guys, there's also a huge thing for Navy intelligence. So Kirkpatrick's boss was a naval aviator. And all of the people that founded early naval aviation and Navy intelligence that were working in that field, these guys had like all of the powerful connections that are going on.

And I mean, it's still the case. Like it's, you know, find me a very interesting parallel today is if you look at all the people that are in charge of the Department of Defense, like the joint chiefs of staff, they're all fighter pilots. But also overrepresented as like the Navy's opinions. I mean, the Navy really runs the show when it comes to the bureaucracy in D.C. nowadays. And also like basically like throughout American history. Yes.

You know, the army is out in the 19th century fighting the Indian Wars. The Marine Corps is deployed, you know, all over the world to, you know, the Google shit holds. Yeah, the Marine Corps. The Marine Corps is under who now at the time? and still are technically the Navy. Yeah, exactly. And so all these naval personnel

are in DC and all the admirals and all the general staff. And if you look at Trump's changes, you know. Well, here, to give you just a real quick example that everyone at home can Google right now. You can do it too far though. I'd love to actually hear your opinion. Type in Pentagon Militia destroys, kills, whichever, pick an adjective. CIA militia.

Okay, standby here. Yeah, I remember this. I remember what it happened. Is this the Los Angeles time circle? Mm-hmm. Yes. Oh, man, I could tell you about this one. So,

um... Yes, the CIA was trying to at the behest of, I guess you can call it at the behest of, of Zionism. This is the thing. Is that, I didn't want to interrupt you, but Alan Dulles was right about communists. He just didn't really understand

communists all that well. You could hate communists and be very anti-communist and not understand communism in let's say the way the three of us understand communism, right? We understand communism a little bit differently. And we understand that there's no difference between that and Zionism. Right, guys? So he may have had a blind spot because the reason why Alan

Dulles couldn't figure out how the Soviets kept on getting all of their ship was it never occurred to him that it was Israel giving all of the materials. The mole that James Jesus Engleton was commissioned to find this Soviet mole. Wasn't in fact a Soviet mole at all. It's a Zionist mole. And he was it. James Jesus Angleton was the guy that he was supposed to find. But who was Zionism at this point? Find me a Israeli prime minister who's, I have to caveat this, because I could just say every Israeli prime minister was a former member of the Soviet intelligence apparatus. But then I have to caveat that because Benjamin and Yahoo exists.

And he's just the son of two Soviet intelligence officers. Well, all of them are Haganah, Irgun, every single prime minister, and they were also like... I mean, organized crime and intelligence go like handing glove, right? Yeah, absolutely, with Angleton as well. There's some little interesting anecdotes about Angleton. I try and tell people, like the Mossad existed long before the state of Israel. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, reference the previous...

previous streams on Forrestall and, you know, just the, the prevalence there. Like Angleton, Angleton is deathbed said, you know, he said, I'm going to burn in hell for all eternity for what I'm, what I've done in my life. And there's some very, there's some, I mean, he had some realizations. Well, you know, and it's interesting reading the David Talbot book on him because, you know, the reason Dolis didn't suspect Angleton is because they were very, close you know there was a huge amount of trust that Dulles put in Angleton and I'd have to pull up the source here but it's the same thing that always gets them why

would a Princeton guy or why would a man of my class possibly this is how this is how everybody missed Kim Philby right there's no there's no there's no daylight between Champaign Socialist and communist and all these little posh boys, their life kind of lacks a certain type of excitement and being a double agent's pretty exciting. You know, they, I believe Dulles missed Engleton for the same reason that everyone missed MI6 missed Kim Filby, right? Because for him to throw in with the communists would be so unimaginable because glaring in

the face long before national betrayal would be class betrayal. So I know and saw FDR, all of the people that were aligned to try and oust the recently elected FDR. A lot of them had the last name Roosevelt. Nobody ever sees class betrayal coming. Yeah, not all of them betrayed either. Like, Kermit Roosevelt was involved in the Mossadeh standard oil, the Iranian action. 100%. Like, dude, a majority, Roosevelt's entire family was like part of the campaign to oust.

FDR. Like the level of betrayal, they were the most, they were the most vehement, like, the most venomous anti-Rosevelt people were members of the Roosevelt family because of that betrayal. It caught them, so, like, they couldn't, they couldn't imagine it. A good book, I imagine that this is why, uh, why, um, Dulles couldn't imagine, like, class betrayal. Let's put this way. Like, what you said, um, it makes, um, it may be a good, um, you said, um, it They sounded really corny, but the quote that Philo just read out earlier about what these men were actually like, what their values were like, what their religious faiths were like, and the type of priority and prominence these men put into matters of faith, it leaves them

open for this type of thing because it is physically impossible for a man like Alan Dulles with the values and beliefs that he has. his whole paradigm, right? He, it's not like, oh, these are my values and they're like this line item list, right? These are my bullet points right here. These are all the things. That's not how it works. All right. All of these things are part of his paradigm, right? They physically represent the way that, like, they physically are, not represent, they are the lens in which he views reality. He lives through those. He analyzes all information through those. He experiences life through those. He understands the options that are available to him at any

given time through those. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design, they move you even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro, search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera, design that moves Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited Subject to lending criteria, terms and conditions apply

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When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Lidl Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design, they move you, even before you drive.

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Ireland Limited. Subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Which is why the class traders always get through. Always. There's a very interesting.

there's two very interesting elements to Angleton. The first was that when he was in school at Yale, he founded a very modern avant-garde literary magazine and was very into modernist poetry, which later became the beats and everything else, and they got a lot of CIA funding from that. So Angleton, there's a very interesting thing, which is that he was exceptionally interested in the metaphysics of assassination.

and people that worked with Angleton said, one did not always have to agree with him to know that he possessed a unique grasp of secret operations. As a friend remark, he had the ability to raise an operational discussion not only to a higher level, but to another dimension. It is easy to mock this, but there's no one within the agency with whom I would rather have discussed a complex operational problem than Angleton. Angleton's activities ranged from opening the mail of U.S. citizens to wiretapping the bedrooms of CIA officials. It was his job to be suspicious of everybody, and he was keeping a treasure trove of sensitive files and photos in the locked vault in his office. Every morning at CIA he would personally report to Dulles on the results of his, quote, fishing expeditions, as they called his electronic eavesdropping missions, which picked up everything from gossip on the Georgetown Party Circuit to Washington billow stock. As Dulles was well rare, Angleton had even tucked away explosive secrets about the CIA director himself.

That is why Dulles had rewarded him with the most. Well, I disagree with this. That's not why Dulles rewarded him with the most sensitive job. It's not like blackmail. It's because he had like really full trust of Dulles. He also, like a lot of Engleton's coworkers, they were all Ivy League graduates. Angleton was a huge fan of Britain and had attended the Upper Crust British Boarding School Malvern. And he worked a lot with British secret intelligence.

And what else was there? Also, why he didn't see Kim Philby coming. Yeah, so Philby is a little interesting. Let's see. What can I find about Philby? Let me zoom in here. So they're like families. Just for the listener.

These people sound irrelevant, but these people have far more to do with the with history being created than really anybody in any elected or. visible position of power in either of these governments or any of them, frankly. Alan Dulles shaped world events, historical events, far more than anyone in Congress, far more than any individual army officer general doesn't fucking matter. Any president doesn't matter. These are the men that actually create history. This is why it's important to know them.

And it's even more interesting because generally most people are a well, of the fact that Eisenhower is not personally going around approving all these foreign government interventions. I mean, it's pretty standard knowledge nowadays that Dolos and the agency were wholly responsible for all of this, but there's this weird cognitive dissonance over the fact that something similar could be happening today, that the people not be in power or not How it was the compromise between military intelligence and civilian intelligence? Because who was at the height of their power after World War II, the military? They frankly run American society.

They run the American political apparatus. He was the compromise between the two factions. Exactly. And the CIA took a lot of ground from the military element because of the Korean War. And, you know, initially off the bat, the, uh, that the military intelligence component of it really dropped the ball on it, um, because the Koreans had been building up their forces for months before the invasion. But, uh, back to like Philby and Angleton. Um, yeah. Philby and Angleton were both, uh, British school boys. You know, they were, they, they grew up together and their families hang out and, uh, we do dinner parties all the time. And, um, one thing that was, um, Richard Helms was like a party to both of these people, and he commented, I have no doubt that the exposure of Kim Filby was lodged in the deepest recesses of Jim's being. If he were the sort of, oh, that's a separate part.

Angleton told a friend in British intelligence after the betrayal, quote, I would kill Philby. The betrayal was painfully intimate. Let's see. You know, there's a separate point, William Colby, who was the guy who finally terminated Angleton's tenure in 1975. So Angleton's like active for a very long time. The guy who terminated him said, quote,

I couldn't find that we ever caught a spy under Jim. So Angleton, you know, was the mole hunter for decades within the CIA and he never caught a spy. Crazy. Crazy. He operated, quote, a virtual CIA within the CIA reporting in only to Dulles himself. let's see big alcoholic Engleton was very much into art

and what other stuff was there he said as part of his testimony before the church committee in the 1970s quote it is inconceivable that a secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with all the overt orders of the government CIA overseers were priestly cast that must be allowed to operate unfettered and above the law.

One of the stuff was there. I don't want to tread on ground from the previous stream, but he worked on pursuing a CIA partnership with the mafia with Cold War countries, France, West Germany, Turkey, Taiwan, and Israel. He had a special bond with the Israelis. And that's probably where you want to go next, bud, because next comes the Kennedy assassination. Yeah.

So let's see. I'd have to pull up. I listen to the astral stream. I didn't do too much research. With Corey Hughes? Yeah, that's right. Corey Hughes is an animal. He is probably the best on this.

Dawson is really, really good, but I don't think anyone is able to put it together as linearly as Corey has. Yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to go through it because I didn't, I didn't quite understand the, the references in there to MK Ultra and Oswald. Like, I can understand the idea, like, it fits very well into the picture of it, you know, Oswald is not only a Patsy, but perhaps could be a series of different. For something else, right? He doesn't have to be involved to be a Patsy, bro. Yeah. No, I mean, he. Oswald, I think Oswald was being groomed for something else.

by another intelligence agency, probably the Pentagon related. Well, the framing is that he would, he would infiltrate the Soviet Union. That was to be his assignment to get closer within those communist circles. You know, they kind of made, as I understand it from the stream, they made up afterwards that he was a communist, like that's all bullshit. And almost everything about his life and his biography is contrived. Yeah, there's multiple ones, but it's basically some of a project that got started very, very, very young.

So they were creating fake Oswald's when he was in still finishing grade school or elementary school or sorry, a high school. I can't remember which. And then his mother worked for like the Navy intelligence or something. Yes, naval intelligence. A lot of the people associated in adjacent. So if I want to, if I am in a rivalry, right? And I want to like because the DOD did not want Zionism.

No. And how could you blame him? I mean, Zionism whacked the first sector. Yep, exactly. So if you're going to, again, Oswald's purpose has nothing, Oswald has no knowledge. You can literally watch in the video of when basically somebody asked him about like literally when he's being carried away. You can see it dawn on his face that he got set up.

Right. Somebody knew who Oswald was and picked him as the Patsy. He doesn't have to know he's the Patsy. Right. So if I'm going to burn somebody, why would I burn one of the my guys and I can burn one of yours. Yeah. Let's,

I'm trying to just find a good section on it. Remember, I'm hanging the, um, and this way, if anybody looks into him, they're going to bump into your shit, not mine.

Uh, so I'm, I'm looking through the Talbot book for the, uh, JFK assassination stuff. The problem is, is that there's just so much material on it, that it's hard to like,

find good quotes. We don't have to go into the assassination, but we should go into how Dulles exited the CIA. Why, who exited him, and what was immediately done after he exited, and what did Alan Dulles do once he figured out what had happened? And now this is over the Rehawkeshneis in the handshira. Is leargoal gilor gweha and notherina in Aondun, and leander Gala to Gialla to Giazza Gaelta Deiardin.

in Ergrid, we're in a tour in Woonaha with Foonive in Woonaha. There's a lot of to do you have done of

a hundred Lectorches on as to all the people and people tariff in Tashdy.

There is a cooctuagin. Follam Nis more in Ergit Pongahy. Sure. Yeah, I think you'll probably have to

take over the lead for it because most of the rest of my research is on the Coos in Congo. and Iran and in Guatemala.

So I kind of left the Kennedy assassination stuff. So if you want to cover it, I'll talk about it. We've thoroughly, so in James Jesus Angleton's tenure, right, of not catching spies, he did, however, have a interesting relationship, which apparently no one bothered to look into, with a florist that he would stop in every day on his way home and talk to for two to three hours. The FBI knew this, but in some of the recent documents that have been declassified and released,

will be James Jesus Engleton going to the FBI, saying at the direct request, of the director, Dulles. Anything that has to do with Israeli intelligence or Israel whatsoever needs to come directly to me. And only to me. Nobody else

in the CIA bring all of the Israel shit to me. And this is exactly what Alan Dulles wants. I promise. At the same time as the FBI is noting that the CIA fucking guy, he doesn't have any fucking flowers.

He doesn't even have a garden. But day in, day out, he stops by the florist on the way home and chats for two hours, sometimes three, usually more than one. And we never find out who owns that florist, not that it would matter, not that it would be a real person, not that it would lead anywhere. All right. So we'll never know who was in that florist that he was talking to. Right. But what was James Jesus Angleton's relationship with the state of Israel, Philo? Well, as we covered in the first stream, he was extremely connected with the defense secretary as well as the head of the shin bet within Israel.

I mean, and he was, that's where he was. What is the shin bed? The shin bed is Israel's domestic intelligence service. So both foreign and domestic intelligence? That's right. Yes. Okay. So basically, guys are a fucking, an asset of the Israeli intelligence agencies.

Right. So I don't know what it is that James Jesus Angleton thinks he's rotting in hell for. But again, keep in mind that James Jesus Engleton does not need to know the intentions of the Israeli state to be helpful to the Israeli state. Just like Oswald, who put it together, literally as the journalist, is like, when did you decide to kill Kennedy and you just see the fucking look on this guy's face like,

oh, motherfucker, I'm being set up. I know what this is. He was clueless. He had no idea what those reporters wanted. He had no idea about anything. James Jesus Angleton didn't need to know that he was helping a foreign government kill his president. All he needed to know was that he's helping a foreign government. Probably thought he was helping a foreign government for whatever reasons they told him. But basically, so just because he is involved in the Kennedy assassination does not mean he knew what was happening. He did know what happened afterwards, but then are you going to run and say anything? No, because you're basically sworn to secrecy, whether you like it or not. Because to not be sworn to secrecy is to effectively indict yourself for treason.

And you would be, and especially right after the president got killed, your ass would be shot. You wouldn't have a trial, you wouldn't have any, you would have an accident or a suicide or something like that. All right, most cases of treason, right, don't involve a trial or a tribunal or anything like that. When it comes to intelligent stuff, that person just dies. however mysteriously or unmysteriously it happens. And that's what would have happened to Angleton. If you were to have said, like, oh, shit, I think that I shouldn't have, I was giving these people information thinking it was for this, but turns out it's actually for this and I think I did a bad thing.

That's never going to happen. He's going to have to live with that every day until they dies, which it sounds like he did. Unfortunately, for us, he didn't die sooner. but what did what did Ellen Dulles do because he was pushed out of the CIA right and like

Fylo said the man was running an intelligence agency inside the central intelligence agency Mr. Engleton is very busy guy and according to two of the sources that he referenced he had

material on Alan Dulles himself, the head of the CIA. So between running an office inside an office and having material on the current head of the Central Intelligence Agency, if there's anybody that could have pushed Alan Dulles out of the agency he created because there's no way in fucking hell that he would have decided to leave without being pushed out. So who pushed him out? I don't know.

maybe the guy with a secret folder full of shit on him. Probably a good place to look. So what did Alan Dulles do after he got pushed out? During the, everyone's like, oh, well, Alan Dulles was on the Warren Commission. No shit. No shit he was on the Warren Commission. That doesn't make him complicit. You can be on the Warren Commission because the nation knows that you're the intelligence guy.

So if someone's going to make something believable, right, or actually, because the Warren Commission, what's his name? members of the Warren Commission came out and said that their investigation was deliberately derailed. And there's parts of the Warren Commission that's still classified. Right. So these guys, just because somebody's on the Warren Commission, this is the thing about people need to be way, when you look at stuff like this, anything intelligence related, anything like this, you have to be way more fluid, right? Like, you have to basically take everything that you see and then you look at it from every single angle. Is it possible to be on the Warren Commission and not be involved in the Kennedy assassination?

Yes, it is. What was Alan Dulles doing? Well, I believe in the book, what was that book that you mentioned, devil's chessboard? I believe they document Alan Dulles after being pushed out and immediately after the Kennedy assassination, basically recreating a mini CIA in his living room full of only people that he trusted. imagining after just getting pushed out of the central intelligence agency, that was a very small list of people. But what were they investigating in Alan Dulles' living room each day, all day, probably piecing

together what the fuck just happened? Because if you just got pushed out of the CIA and you know enough to know enough that some CIA people were involved in this, or at least adjacent to it, you would probably try and get to the bottom of that, at least if no other reason, then to make up for being ignominiously thrown out of the thing you created and shamed. But probably for other reasons. I mean, literally, I mean, John Foster was a part-time Protestant theologian. And John Foster's son is a very prominent Catholic, was a very prominent Catholic bishop and eminent theologian. Like, these men took their religious stuff very seriously.

So if somebody just kills the president, you know, you're going to try and get to the bottom of it. You're like, you're not a fucking heathen. You know, it would be a call to action for a man like Alan Dulles. So why didn't anything happen with that? Like, why did Alan Dulles just stop? Well, at that point in time, the man who was having an affair with the Israeli Ergun terrorist, right, and member of the Stern gang, I can't remember her name. But that guy is now in the fucking White House. He's the president.

The Israeli asset now very, very, very, very. very guilty feeling, very, very, very, very nervous, probably very, very, very twitchy. James Jesus Engleton, the guy that pushed you out, is now running the CIA. So if the president is nearest makes no difference in on it, and the guy that's run CIA now is nearest makes no difference in on it, and you're just an old man without a job, you know, playing CIA in your living room. matter what you find because someone's going to come up to you and have a conversation with you that says hey like you need to just go be an old man now or you're going to die and that's what he did

and he died shortly after anyways so i really think it's uh i really think the whole CIA killed or was involved in any capacity officially as in like officially as in like the organs of the CIA was involved in the Kennedy assassination needs to be put to bed, Alan Dulles being an evil man and involved in some way in the Kennedy assassination needs be put to bed, right? The reason, I don't know if we talked on the first episode about the Kennedy and Dulles beef, uh, Philo. Kennedy and Dulles beef.

Yeah, I mean, Dulles hated Kennedy. Yeah, Kennedy hated Dulles, but why? I had nothing to do with the Vietnam War, right? Everything that we have from Kennedy, both internal websites. White House transcripts, right? Recorded phone calls and official statements of Kennedy's that are now declassified. He was ramping up Vietnam. Kennedy never wanted to pull out of fucking Vietnam.

That's a made-up law. That's made up. Because you would need a reason for the beef, right? You need to point the finger somewhere else. Well, Dulles calls Kennedy. The reason that Kennedy. Yeah. Uh-huh. Let me tell you exactly what he was naive about. The one thing that after the Cuban

missile crisis, nuclear prolid, this is actually where, why Kennedy was as committed, besides the fact that, um, besides the fact that his father, Joe Kennedy had a run-in with the focus group in the UK prior to the outbreak of World War II. right and was roundly squashed and thrown out of his ambassadorial position by fDR because Joe Kennedy was screaming like hey why aren't the British doing peace why are they taking his offer like we're going to start another world war we're going to do it all over again and the focus group was like yeah guy that's the fucking point and turns out Joe Kennedy found out that FDR was already in on it like they're about it

So Joe Kennedy, like in his last years, had a tremendous amount of resentment towards particularly the Zionist outfit in the United Kingdom, right, the focus group. That basically, I mean, he would actually send letters back and communications back saying that they were trying to, that he thinks that they were trying to poison him. Right. At one time, he actually gets deathly ill and almost dies. He comes home to America shortly after. He legitimately thought they were trying to kill him. Because Joe Kennedy was not on team, let's go World War II. He was on team, let's not do World War II.

So, Jack Kennedy had no real love for the Zionist cause to begin with. but he's rather indifferent about it. Until the nuke stuff happened. Like, I mean, Jack and Robert Kennedy literally took their kids to Mass on Sunday. Like, at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, I made sure every single one of their kids got communion.

And funny enough, cruise chef's son will, I will tell you that his dad did the exact same thing. Because both world leaders were thinking there's a fucking very, very, very high probability that we're going to go, like, everything is, we're all going to go to hell like now. Nuclear hellfire tomorrow. And after that passed, Jack became very, very serious in his nuclear anti-proliferation. Like, you know, as I imagine, taking your kids to what you think was going to be their final communion

will probably be a formative experience in a father's life. I don't know. I think so. Because Jack Kennedy was literally going to the Soviet Union, his friend, Mr. Khrushchev, and saying, like, we need to do total nuclear disarmament, Khrushchev, at this point in time, now getting significant pushback from the Soviet defense establishment, Khrushchev was on board. But Khrushchev couldn't, well, let's put this one, the Soviet military apparatus at this point in time is starting to have a lot more power than Mr. Khrushchev. And Khrushchev was not able to

move the ball down the court. And I think you can look in the conversation, the, the, what you call it, the tele-x stuff, I can't remember. It's either like the transcribed phone calls from the recorders in the White House or the telex. I can't remember which, whatever. They're going back and forth and Kennedy, Jack Kennedy's like, hey, so how about we just start disarming first and that way you'll know that we're serious about it? And that way you can go back to the military guys and say, look, there's the Americans are serious about it. And Alan Dulles and the Joint Chiefs of Staff found out about this. And they are not naive. They're like, are you out of your fucking mind? Like, you're talking about,

like, you're going to try and, you know, you're going to destroy some of our missiles in hopes that the Soviets do the same. Like, I'm sorry. This is where the beef. came between the two. It had nothing to do with the Bay of Pigs. The whole Bay of Pigs conversation, as Corey Hughes documents extensively, the reason the Bay of Pigs failed, had nothing to do with the CIA, nothing to do with John F. Kennedy,

had everything to do with those arms, never fucking making it to Cuba in the goddamn first place. Where did they go? the arms that were supposed to go to the people in the bay that would be doing the bay of pigs never made it there because with the help of James Jesus Angleton, they were going through an export-import business in Virginia, which I cannot remember the name of, but again, Corey Hughes documents extensively. And being shipped to Israel, those guns were going to Israel,

and unfortunately none of them ever made it to, to, to, Cuba, and that's why the Bay of Pigs failed. Because every fucking bullet and every gun ended up in the Levant and not on the shores of Cuba, which is where they were really sorely needed. So it wasn't the Bay of Pigs either. It was the Nukes. Kennedy, in his naive little lefty brain, because don't be wrong, if Kennedy didn't get his fucking top blown off. Every single one of us would have hated him as much as we hate FDR. The only reason that we have any nice things to say about him is frankly because

our op, you know, killed him. And B, we, at least me, I love America enough to where nobody gets to fucking kill the president, no matter how fucking left he is. Sure is how not some pissant state in the Middle East. But we would have hated our, uh, J of K. Like, he would have been a, like, we would have looked at him like a disaster. He was a naive leftist. Like, he literally thought that, well, I just think we could just make nukes go away.

Maybe we can unadvent them, and the Soviets are going to do it with us, totally. This is actually going to happen. And someone like Alan Dulles and someone like the guys in the Joint Chiefs of Staff would have thought that this man is absolutely insane. And that's exactly what they thought. And they sabotaged him every fucking chance that they got. And they did sabotage him several times, some of them leading to rather embarrassing moments. And that's why Jack Kennedy says, I'm going to break the CIA into a million pieces. Because shortly before then, they just made him look like a fucking retard in front of the Soviets

while he's trying to do this crazy idea of his that, like, we're just going to wave the magic wand, and the communists are going to make all the nukes go away, and we're going to make all the bars go away. So the whole fucking, that's the dullest JFK beef. Has nothing to do with Vietnam, has nothing to do with the Bay of Pigs. The Bay of Pigs has everything to do with somebody else, and it had everything to do with nukes,

which is the same reason JFK was losing his fucking mind. It's Monacham Began. I always get them confused. Is that the one? Or is it Ben-Gurian? Ben-Gurian, right? Well, Manachem Began was a member of the Ergun and Prime Minister in the late 70s. Who was the one in the 60s?

Who is the one that the Kennedy letters? Or I think they're called like the Israel letters or the Kennedy letters or whatever, the basically the Telex fight that he was having with the Israeli prime minister at the time about the nuclear sites in Demona. When he basically says, yeah, we know what you did. if you give me a year I could tell you a year yeah like when the phone call happened sorry oh no no like this would be um oh shit Pete do you know when the Kennedy

assassination took place I can't believe I'm fucking blanking on this I thought you literally it was it was in it was in 63 but um wasn't Ben Gurian prime minister at the time yes So anybody that can go search the, what is it, what's the office? What's the place? What's the, it's not the library of Congress? Who's the people that keep the presidential records? The Office of the Historian is one of the.

Yeah, the Office of the Historian holds letters. They have the, it's number 308 letter from Prime Minister, Ben Garion to President Kennedy, June 24th, 1962. Yeah, they have a whole bunch of them. This letter war went back and forth and back and forth. And anybody that reads those letters, if you think that these two men, you know, I would say that as much as I think JFK hated him more than Donald Trump hates Benjamin Netanyahu. And that's quite a lot. I don't think there was a relationship, a diplomatic relationship that John F. Kennedy had with any other world leader that was as hostile as it was with the Prime Minister of Israel at the time because of nukes.

And that's also why I think, I don't know if Fyla would you say, like that's the prime reason why that he got assassinated by them. Well, I mean, it's interesting because the whole talk of nukes and the president, You know, Angleton being interviewed in 1975 in the church community, he's bringing up Israel. He's bringing up nuclear weapons. I mean, even, you know, at that point, 13 years later, it was still like the highlight of the congressional investigation into him. So I think there's very good supporting evidence of that. And also, you have to track like the global trajectory of the acquisition of nukes. It's been it's been a hot minute since I've researched this.

But, you know, first off, it's the United States. States and then later the Soviet Union, I mean, leaked through, I think a British commie spy a scientist. It was how it got to the, um, it was um, 1949. I know the person. Was it the Rosenbergs? No, it wasn't. Or they were the person that found or they were the person that was running the cell that this person that was working at Los Alamos operated out of? Something like that. but I do know that there was a lot of other atomic stuff going through them. But then anyway, I think it's Britain and it's France and then Israel. One interesting thing.

Britain stole it from us too. Yeah, one interesting thing from the 1975 interview is that Engleton says that right around the Suez crisis, he's having talks with, I'd have to pull up the damn source. he's having talks on with like scientists, uh, that are, that are working on like development of,

uh, nuclear material within Israel because there's like, a dynamic of he's getting intelligence about the Soviet Union from the Israelis. And then there's, there's other nuclear related information that passes through Israel as kind of a conduit. Um, so a lot of internal speeches, uh,

within the civil. Union in the mid-50s are going through Israel. He's talking about... Yeah, because the intelligence apparatus was literally, you know, these were, these were former coworkers, right? Granted, the Soviet Union would later turn on Israel. Oh, totally. And Israel also was playing both sides.

Like, in Israel, I learned this. I learned this that, like, that was not was, not was. That was the mindset. Right. Just type in now today. Just type in Pentagon or U.S. military. Pick an explicit word that's similar to angry, whatever.

Israel, or type in just Israel sells U.S. military blank, and then hit enter. And less known than that is Israeli connections of China. This is how the China's good. This is how the Chinese got a hold of the F-22, right? The only people we ever get, like the F-35 is the fucking, is the Down syndrome, you know, baby that came after the F-22. Any fighter pilot that, you know, has any experience will tell you that the F-22 is the real deal. The F-35 is a nightmare and a joke.

Did you know that the, uh, you'd like this one. The F-35 has an eye variant within Israel where they, they have their own aircraft where they fit it out with all kinds of Israeli developed avionics and then send them back to the But do you know why they're not allowed to have the F-22 anymore? Probably because they sold every part of it. To China. I would guess, yeah, to China, yeah. So even popular mechanics talks about it.

Popular mechanics got invited to Beijing to witness this amazing fifth-generation fighter that the Chinese had built. and what amazed Pompecular mechanics the most was this plane's avionic system. It wasn't the fact that it looks identical to the F-22, literally identical. It was that the avionics equipment was still in English.

We only gave, I think we only gave one or two, and I know we took one back. So I don't know where the other one went. And I don't know what Israel got in return, but I imagine quite a fun. a lot. Yeah, I mean, there's a good rabbit hole is the Israeli weapons industry and China. And no one, no one knows about this, but it's, it's openly discussed over there. Like that, that was touted as a, as a big, as a big fact was like the, you know, like, because that was a big deal at the time for the three years that I was there was, you know, Israel receives this F-35 and ostensibly DOD tasks them to develop all the avi-a-a-a-a- within their own F-35 I variant that they're going to keep, but then send some of their tech back to the United States to help, you know, further develop this technology that's going on within there.

But, you know, it's a fucking pox on both our houses. Sorry, China. Pretty much. There's also like, yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of work within China that Israel's doing. And so think about this Think about Pete, you would probably know this Do you remember what was it called? I can't remember what the gate was. It happened shortly after the Lewin

Or shortly before the Lewinsky scandal. It was the bombing of the aspirin. This would be after the bombing of the aspirin factory in Africa. I can't remember. I think, no. I was talking about like the, uh, AK, the Chinese guns that were being, that they got caught importing into the United States. Like, this was like a big deal. Like, there was like some milit,

there was some Chinese, um, shit. It had to do with that guy that, um, the guy that was running it, uh, at the time, the guy that was deeply involved in it was the same guy that killed himself by tying himself to a tree and then shooting himself in the shot in the chest with a shotgun twice. I don't remember It's like the most famous Clinton suicide Here hold on Clinton Yeah like

There's just too much shit in my brain 1996 Campaign Finance Controversy Yeah campaign China gate It's called China I'm so fucking dumb God damn it Oh man

That's hilarious I have a quick A quick side note on that earlier point. I'm looking at the 1975 church thing. Engleton says, quote, you know, I'm talking about in terms of Israel, talking about the signal intelligence. Most of the information that we gained from the surfaced air missiles, which had a direct bearing on using B-52s in Vietnam, we gained through Israel.

We could read a whole lot of the computerizing and so on of those SAMs. And therefore, we were prepared to give highly sophisticated equipment to Israel to work against the Russian business in order to transfer the knowledge to Vietnam. And so this goes back, you know, 60 years of a kind of two-way, five-way street or whatever. I wouldn't even say it's a five-way street. That sounds like somebody's gassing up a bunch of senators that don't know any better. Maybe. Yeah, it's he's, you know, the senators around.

Why are these guys involved? Well, here, let me tell you why Israelis are so important. I'm sure I would love to hear what the senator's question that prompted that was. Oh, yeah, let me find it for you. Are you saying in effect then that any questions he raised with you about the transfer of visual material or deeper technology or manpower for that matter to the Israeli government was couched in circumlimity? Who is who? Who is who? Senator.

No, as in like, you said that any intelligence or anything here, read the read the, read the, read the, that first sentence again. Senator Tower to Mr. Angleton. Are you saying in effect, then, that any questions he raised with you about the transfer of visual material? Who is the he? That is Mr. Schwartz.

I bet it's Dulles. Yeah, there's an individual named Mr. Schwartz. This is talking about Israeli government technical assistance in this too as war. Schwartz is Irish? Irish. I wonder if he's a flower shop a patron

Yeah Did you confirm to Seoul A different guy During the late 50s subsequent to the Suez War That the CIA made available to the Israeli government Technical assistance in the availability of one or more Distinguished Nuclear Scientists or Physicists For the purpose of developing atomic weapons

Mr. Angleton That is completely false But we know it's true Oh so It wasn't, I guess they couldn't, even after they stole the uranium and stole the, by the way, Benjamin Netanyahu, everybody, makes his first appearance. His first time to the U.S. was not, unfortunately, to testify as an Iranian nuclear weapons expert, like he does in his role of Prime Minister every 10 minutes, and not his appearance on the

House of, on the floor of Congress, as a terrorism expert, as he did. shortly after 9-11, and also a terrorism expert before he was even Prime Minister. He was the terrorism expert after WTC the first time, 93. But his first escapades in America had nothing to do with lying to our Congresspeople, which is seemingly his career now. it was stealing Krytron triggers, which are the triggers for nuclear weapons,

in the naval facilities in California. At the same time, his co-ethno-religiousists, I would say co-ethics, but depending on who you ask or when you ask, it's a religion. So cover on my basis. While they were stealing nuclear material,

out of the naval facility in Newmec, Pennsylvania. So between the two, you got both halves of a nuclear bomb. And it was actually the mob, the guys like Meyer Lansky, that made sure that nuclear material made it out of the United States. I mean, when you find out how they were shipping it, I'm sure a whole bunch of random nice people got radiation poisoning mysteriously. It was really fucking gross. don't expect mobsters to take a lot of precautions.

But anyways, do you have a source? What you're telling me is that even with those two things, they still couldn't get it to work. And James Jesus Engleton had to make sure that they got nuclear experts to. So this is after JFK. This is after. So why would the Israeli nuclear program and James Jesus Engleton and the Suez Crisis be relevant at all to the Warren Commission unless nuclear weapons, the Israeli nuclear weapons program was not very, very, very important to the Kennedy assassination. And I think

you will get the impression when you read those letters back and forth between Ben-Gurion and JFK, you come away with an idea that they already, the Israelis already planned, they already knew who they were planning on using these weapons against. And I think that was the Egyptians. They were going to nuclear first strike them. Instead, they did a surprise attack like, hey, we're not at war. Oh, surprise, you're at war with us today with fighter jets. That's the only reason that Israel didn't get wiped off the face of the earth by the Egyptian army, which it actually still very well may, by the way, was because the Israelis, without declaring war or really any hostilities or any real intent whatsoever,

decided to just send literally every fighter aircraft they had and surprise the Egyptians and shoot all of their planes while they were still, you know, not at war, hanging out on the ground. I don't think that was the, because they didn't know that the Egyptian air defenses weren't going to be activated the way they were, right? The Israelis had to assume that they would have lost a tremendous amount more fighter aircraft, and the Israelis had to assume that they wouldn't have been as successful as they were at mailing those fighter craft on the ground. I bet you Israel was more surprised than anyone that they got that many Egyptian fighter craft

you know, caught them sleeping on the ground. Well, granted, it's not really the Egyptians fault if you don't know that you're at war in your next, if you think of Canada. Anyways. Right, because I mean, I think Israel was paying on nuclear first striking. Yeah, the income. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Who was? I mean, actually, Pete, I believe you have at least two episodes on this. Who was Egypt's ally? Oh, well, I mean, that's easy. The big guys. It was the Soviet Union's largest ally in the region. And I believe it shouldn't be too hard to find. I believe at least one instance that the premier of the Soviet

socialist republics, Mr. Khrushchev, or either Khrushchev or actually Krustuff was ousted shortly after JFK. But, so it may be either Khrushchev or the guy that followed him, that any attack on Egypt would be viewed by the Soviet Union as an attack on the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union wasn't retarded. They knew how important Suez was. So basically, what Israel was trying to do was start World War III with nukes. And they were perfectly okay with that if it meant greater Israel. The only reason I go off on that tangent, dear listener, is because it is a very useful lens to apply to the Middle East today. So if Israel was perfectly okay, granted, they thought the U.S. was going to get involved.

They thought if the U.S. got involved that the Soviet nukes would fly at the U.S. and not at their little tiny state in the Middle East, we would be the bullet magnets, but with nukes. they were perfectly okay starting nuclear war to get greater Israel. Because at this point in time, the Soviet Union was very, very, very clear that anybody that attacked Egypt would be at war with the Soviet Union. So basically, JFK was literally looking at Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0. Nobody just, we just didn't know it yet. So if Israel's willing to literally light the world on fire using nuclear hellfire to, you know,

satiate their territorial expansion desires, everybody needs to be well aware that they would be more than willing to do it again. So there really is no geopolitical fallout that these people are not willing to risk, whether it's to them or whether it's to us or to really to anybody. Right? There's no nukes in the Middle East now, except for theirs. But when the Soviets would have fired nukes at them,

they were still willing to do it. So really, there's really nothing they're not willing to do now, considering they're the one with all the nukes in the region, except for Turkey. So I think that's actually, apparently, we're right back where we fucking started. in addition to spending the last, you know, 30 maybe longer years trying to destroy Iran. Yep.

And that's still like even like last week, the DNI put out the 2025 threat landscape and that, you know, number one threat outside of, you know, China or Russia or whatever is Iran. You know, it's just the same thing every single year. That's right. Don't pay too much attention. to don't pay attention to DNI that much. You're basically hearing the CIA. And the CIA nearest makes no difference fully, fully zogged, right? Pay attention to what comes out of the Defense Department. Defense Department prior to October 7th. And there is ample policy documents from many, many, many Army and Navy and Southwere colleges to start pulling troops out of the Middle

East. And what do you know? You can judge how serious they were about it by the level of coveting against it. So if the Pentagon wasn't serious, everybody should go to their search engine, do, go to settings, and go to select time, and scroll the clock back before October 7th and type in Pentagon pulling out of the Middle East or Pentagon plans to plot the Middle East, whatever. And you will have to go through three or four pages of foreign policy magazine, The Atlantic, Council on Foreign Relations, Chatham House, this fucking place, this other fucking place doesn't matter, just every single one all the way down the line, about how it will be an absolute disaster if the Pentagon pulls out of the Middle East.

Well, let's just say the Pentagon never said that, hypothetically. Let's just do the counterfactual and say, like, the Pentagon wasn't planning on doing that. Then why the fuck are you guys screaming about it so loudly? Why are you screaming about how this thing will be a disaster that no one's talking about doing? And no one's serious about doing. Oh, that's because they are serious about doing it and were. right? Pentagon has done three separate war games, two of which were with the IDF about joint attacks and not just fighters and not just, you know, missiles. But actually, I think one of them

is called the war game was called like Archangel or something, like basically something to do with the Archangel Michael. I can't remember which. And the U.S. and Israel lose. And they lose than three weeks. And the Pentagon doesn't like to lose. Same reason why, and this is why it's important to think about the two intelligence apparatuses, one military and the other one civilian, right? Because like Philo said, the head of the CIA is the third most powerful person in government. You can guess who number two is, yeah.

Well, the military isn't in government. The military is its own thing. The military doesn't have elections. The people aren't appointed unless you think the people that the president appoints, the changes every four years, unless you think those people actually run shit. And that'd be like telling me Joe Biden ran shit. He didn't. Or who was it, that black guy?

Lloyd Austin. The guy that, yeah, the guy that disappeared for literally. eight months and not only did his secretary not know or his deputy not know, but his deputy didn't care and really nobody else cared. So if the person that the president appoints to oversee the Pentagon can fuck off and literally disappear in like a private cancer clinic for eight months and nobody gives a shit nor notices, how much do you think that that position actually controls shit at the Pentagon. Not very much. So the war in Ukraine is a perfect example of this. It is clear anybody that was paying attention, it looked like there was the Russians versus the Ukrainians,

and there was our government verse itself. One half of the government was like, we're going to go to a war in Ukraine against Russia tomorrow. In fact, actually, President Biden said in Poland, hey, you boys talking to American troops. This time next year, and it was actually close to the end of the year, or he just said next year, right? This would be like two or three months at the end of the year. Next year, you guys are going to be fighting in Ukraine. Right. State department was like, yeah. Very next day, somebody from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I mean, how many public media press conferences have you heard? from the Joint Chiefs of Staff before.

Personally, that was the first one I've ever fucking heard of. But Joint Chiefs of Staff wants to have press conference. And Joint Chief of Staff says, everything that guy just said is bullshit. That's a very strange thing to say about the Commander-in-Chief. And the very next day after that, the president's fucking melanated mouthpiece comes out and says, yeah, everything the president said the other day, sorry about that guy is bullshit.

I've never seen that ever before in my life. So, yeah, DIA, sorry is Zogged. CIA, sorry is zogged. But the thing we keep in mind is that everybody in the Biden administration, all of the appoint, like the cabinet positions, the people that actually ran the government, 70% of them hold dual citizenship with a nation in the Middle East and really, really, really, really like their ethnic homeland of Ukraine,

and really, really, really wanted to go to war in Ukraine. So if the president is a vegetable, and the cabinet actually runs the government, and the intelligence agency wants to go to war in Ukraine, and all of the people that run the Biden government, all of the important cabinet officials from the fucking head of the treas secretary, or the treasury secretary, it says, oh, yeah, I know we have this high.

hyperinflation problem, boys and girls, but we still have money to go to war in Ukraine. Anthony Blinken, all the way down the line. So if all of Zog says that we're going to go to war in Ukraine, but yet somehow we're not at war in Ukraine, how is no one talking about that? All of the people that hold all the positions of power, apparently, if these are the positions of power, they want to go to war in Ukraine, but we're not in war. in Ukraine. And all those same fucking people want to go to war against Iran. And we're not at war with Iran. So there is obviously, like, how do you know a black hole is somewhere? You can't actually

see the black hole. You can only figure out the black hole is there by watching the effect of its gravity on the things around it. There's something else there. and it's not the CIA because CIA they really want war in Ukraine so I think I mean it's a weird way to end it out

but unfortunately that other place I think the Office of Naval Intelligence would my guess considering they predate the CIA by I don't know 80 years

that'd probably be where I'd look and I think that's where you see the kind of war within our government. That doesn't seem to have eased up any. That was a ridiculous tangent. Sorry, guys. I mean,

I had, let's do this. Phylos, how do you want to wrap this up? I'll give you the floor. Stormy, you can interject any way you want. I figure,

I figure there's two ways. The first is, I mean, I'd love to get kind of the current, Stormy's current opinion on the Trump administration and, you know, foreign policy generally.

Alternatively, we didn't touch Guatemala and United Free Company. But that might be too big of a subject to wrap things. I would just, it would just be interesting. That should actually be separate because that's not only the CIA. Right. That's Bernays and all the other stuff. Yeah, yeah. That would be my preference would be, you know, I can understand the Biden administration,

their stance on foreign intervention, the 500-ish. dual citizens or ethnic representations. But, you know, they're on the one hand, the language is, 700, 700. On the one hand, the language from the administration is changing on Ukraine, but on the other, the Iran, the pro-Israel element of it. I mean, does that, does that shape towards like a renewed effort?

on that intervention or is that just the same policy line uh that the rights been trotting out for 30 years you know what will that eventually the way i see it is that in ukraine what what trump donald trump wants first right now is ukraine right you want ukraine to end what leverage does donald trump have over vladimir putin in ukraine the answer is none literally putin holds all the fucking cards we can't escalate we can't ratchet we we literally can do fuck all to influence him into basically at least making it look like we could both chalk up a win, you know, when you want to, like, if you want things to not escalate, like, hey, what do you need to,

so you can go home to your people and say that this was a win. And this is what we need to go home to our people to not get fucking just scoriated. He has no leverage over Putin at all, but he really needs this to stop. because if he doesn't, I mean, I know I talked to this with, talked about this with Pete, and I know, Philo, I've talked to this with you privately. The European nations, like, will go do the stupid thing because it's either they go do the stupid thing or they have a lot of explaining to do at home when their government defaults on all that's debt and goes bankrupt.

Yeah, the UK and France issuing all kinds of statements about. They're going to launch a military and everything. Yeah, crazy. Bro, Germany just sent troops for the very first time outside of German border since Operation Barbarossa. And what happens when they get killed? You know? Yeah, where do they put them? They put them on the Russian border.

The new guy, the new chancellor to replace Schultz, is even more fucking insane. Like actually, an insane person. I would say the Europeans have gotten even more insane with escalation. Dude, I don't know what, I don't know what fucking, I don't know what demon is causing this, but that's all I've been talking about lately with, you know, in my private, in my private chats with people is there's a demon that has control over millions of people right now in Europe. Yep. Yep. And they're bringing it down upon themselves.

And, you know, like some of the stuff that we've talked about privately, it's, it's going to be hell. I mean, it's obvious, but there is no strategic reason to send any Western European military into Ukraine. There is just not any kind of rational or political or even economic reason, I would argue, to justify it. If you're worried about staying in power. Because how does a collapse happen? How does it, real quick, I don't want to dodge your question on Iran. They have Iran and Russia have a mutual defense pact.

Do they not? Yeah, they do. And they also have a lot of natural gas ties, if I recall correctly. Yes. So by leaning on Iran, Mr. Trump has found a lever in which he can exert some pushback against Mr. Vladimir Putin. He can't escalate. in Ukraine. He can't posture in Ukraine. But he damn sure I can do it in Iran. And the Russians know

that a large portion of the Congress, right, the state of Israel and all of their far-reaching tentacles very, very much want Donald Trump to go to war with Iran. So if Donald Trump threatens to go to war with Iran, that is a very credible threat. So now the man that has no leverage all of a sudden found something. So I don't know if that's actually what he's doing. But all the John Mearsheimer's, all the fucking David Sachs, all these other fucking assholes will tell you all day

about how Donald Trump has absolutely no leverage against Russia and how they just need to do exactly as Russia says and just fuck off. And don't be wrong, I think we should fuck off. And we shouldn't have been there in the first place. But to pretend to be like some geopolitical analyst you know going on the Duran and do whatever fucking song and dance you do, David Sacks.

You're supposed to be a smart man. And if some half-retarded anon can figure out what a mutual defense pack means, right, since you fucking assholes have been screaming about mutual defense packs in NATO and Article 5 for forever, like this shouldn't be rocket science. So I don't know if that's what Donald Trump's doing. But if the man would be searching for levers to exert on Vladimir president, Putin in some way, shape, or form. None of those levers exist in Ukraine, but they do, however, exist in Iran.

I also want to add to that. But something bad has happened in Europe. I don't like it. And capital markets wise, Martin Armstrong is never wrong. I'll put it that way. I want to add also there's been predicting this for years down to the day. There's no more economic levers. I think that Trump can pull as regards like,

sanctions on Russia. Like every, like, I mean, for all the talk of like soft power, it does, it does reach a limit because soft power is basically sanctions and sanctions are basically done.

There's, there's no one else to sanction. There's no more institutions or organizations or energy resources that like, it's. And we couldn't move enough troops to fucking Europe to scare Russia fast enough. The lift is just too big. We put a second. Not enough forces in being, though, in the Middle East.

Which explains the second aircraft carrier in the Middle East they put in. Yeah, I think that girl was crying. Oh my God, Trump sent three aircraft carriers to the fuck. That means what were they ran? Like, nigga, do you not remember there were fucking three aircraft carriers shooting at the Houthis? Like two months before Donald Trump got elected? They leave because they ran out of ammo and they come back. And this is now some indicator.

Like, did we just forget the three aircraft carriers were already there? shooting at the Houthis and then they leave. And now they come back and this, this is the signal that he meet like, I mean, come on. It's like the pants wetting is ridiculous. Like those fucking aircraft carriers were already there. They just fucking ran out of bullets. And the air operations have been ongoing against the Houthis for years as well. Without resolution.

Pete, how many times have you heard of Scott Horton freaking out about, what the U.S. is doing in Yemen on behalf of the Saudis. I mean, at least since 2015, like every week. Yep. And who do we really need on side right now? This pretend Israel doesn't exist. Who do we need? On side.

We need, Russia's got 20% of global oil supply, energy supply. Who do we need on side right now? Saudi Arabia. Yeah. I don't know if this is what's happening. Well, there's a very close relation. We've been doing this shit already for forever. And during Trump's first administration, there was a very close tie between the Saudis and the Trumps.

I mean, it's, you know, all kinds of stuff. There was a lot of, then the key things to watch in that relationship were not just like these diplomatic measures. Like the U.S. was making appearances at all these different economic forums that were being held in Saudi Arabia. And I it's been a long time because this was you know, uh, Trump's first term. But, um, you know, if I recall that kind of relationship. And didn't you mention at one point stormy that like that's where most of Trump's money comes from is the Saudis? Uh, Saudis, Russians, um, and the U.S. people.

It's a Trump now. It's, it's a combination. But to Pete's point, um, back in the day, it was the Saudi, like, basically. basically who helped Donald Trump the entrepreneur. It was the Saudis and the Russians. Oh, shit. Fuck. Pete, remember when I told you that the,

the Egyptians moved all those tanks to the Israeli border? Yes. I wonder if Russia were to have, like, I wonder if Russia has a lot of ties inside the Egyptian military still. Well, you got that from Martin Armstrong, right? Martin Armstrong, I think I was listening to the same show when he was talking about that.

The Egypt thing The only person I've heard about the tanks is McGregor Okay But then I went and checked it out In Israeli papers And guess what fucking tanks they are They're like two They're like something like I think it was like

Either 1500 or 2,000 And 50,000 supporting troops Got moved to the Israeli border But they're M1 Abrams tanks Egypt's got Unbeknownst to me I didn't fucking know, but they've got like several, like, you know, more than a thousand, less than like 8,000, M1 Abrams tanks.

Apparently, Egypt's been getting a lot of aid, and some of it it likes to receive in tanks, and the other it likes to receive in dollars to give Russia for grain. So as Cece has been starving his people, he's damn sure he's. stocking up on tanks. Anyways, I know we were supposed to wrap this up, but I think we just, I think I just took us further downfield. I would be

interested, though, in hearing you and Philo tie the Bernays thing together into United Fruit, because that is a rabbit hole I have not gone down. Yeah, we can, you know, I can do that one on our own.

I can give you the, I'm happy to join, but I can give you the two minute. Run down if you have time. Well, yeah, I mean, we're still probably going to want to do it. I mean, two minutes is nothing. No, especially if Edward fucking Bernays is involved. Yep, that's the truth. I'd say this is probably more dangerous now than ever was at the height of Russia, Ukraine, under Biden.

I'd probably say this is probably the most dangerous it's been. And we haven't even touched like the tariff in negotiations and the, a lot of their stuff. Yeah, I don't think the Russia-China thing is actually as strong as everyone thinks of this. They've always been like allies of a giraffe convenience. Yeah, how does, yeah, how's the China thing going to happen, though? China, you know, basically says that anything that goes into Taiwan has to come through China first. U.S. says that's unacceptable.

Who knows what the hell happens from there? That's a very, I mean, yeah, so this is actually why I think you see the Trump administration not only not buckling when the stock market was freaking out, but barely saying words. Like Scott Besson, it's Scott or Stephen Besson, I always confused it too. Scott, Scott. Scott.

So Scott Besson, out on Tucker first, kind of like to be, because if you think like that, that Tucker episode that you sent me with him, right, you sent me that on the day that the market started tanking, right? But there's no way that they recorded that on the day that the market started tanking and got it out in like three hours. Because the market was tanking right from the fucking open. So unless, you know, they were recording it at four in the morning and edited it or whatever. Like, no, that was recorded the day before. Right. But ever since then, there's been very little communication out of the Trump administration about any of the shit that's happened.

And in the interim, has anybody been watched, I've seen a ton of news articles about, oh, my God, China is dumping U.S. treasuries, 60 billion in treasuries. First off, China does that shit every quarter. It's not a big deal. It's roughly the same number that it's always been doing it every quarter. And the bigger news is that Europe is actually the one gobbling them up. In fact, like, gobbling up, trying to gobble up 80 billion when there's only 60 billion being sold. Right. So, like, that's not the big news. The big news is the fucking Renminbi.

Jesus Christ. Like, I haven't seen it, like, really reported anywhere. But, like, unless you're watching it on the tick, like, unless you're watching, like, the Bloomberg feed or, like, the chart. China's currency's falling off a fucking. cliff like really really really really crazy so i i wonder if are you talking about the are you talking about the yuan yeah i think it started coming back today oh did it yeah i think it started coming back today i'm seeing that there was a huge drop on the 13th yeah you're watching this the the fucking chinese currency they have two currencies the yuant the one is the external one that they

used to trade with other countries. And I think the renminbi is the internal one. And my friend told like, Remnon B, there we go. Oh, no, the one right now, the one since the close of our markets, it's dropping, it's dropping hard. Yeah. I think, I think you might be right, Pete, but I think maybe we may be firing the first shots. Forgive my ignorance. I'm A trade war between the U.S. and China? I think it's a currency war, man. We're trying to destabilize them. You don't fuck with the internal currency

unless you're trying to destabilize the nation itself. Right? Because she has been acting fucking insane. But think about it. He's fired all the military brass and replaced them. Like in the last three or four months, it barely got reported on. But he has been axing generals and replacing them. like crazy.

Oh, yeah, shit. Yeah, the Redmond B, the dollar gained on the Redmond B. What is this? What is that? That's the internal currency? Yeah, yeah, I think so. I can't remember where the CNY. I can't remember which one it is.

But is this right? Is that really, does that really say? Yeah, okay, so it's a couple points. And to keep in mind, everyone, a couple percentage points doesn't sound like a a big deal in currency. But the reason that 4x traders are always blowing up is because 4x moves so little that they have to trade with 100 and a thousand times leverage to make any money at all. So these guys are trading, you know, fractions of a fraction of a percent, which generally would be absolutely worthless unless you leverage yourself a thousand X.

So like a currency moving 3, 4, 5% would be like a stock moving like 50, 80% in a day. It would be huge. Because currencies collapse really fast. If you look at the five day chart on the wand, the offshore lawn has recovered. but the internal is not doing well at all.

And they're both at 14 cents to the U.S. dollar. The offshore rim and be recorded an all-time low on Wednesday slightly strengthened. The onshore is its weakest level in almost 18 years. That just happened in the last hour. Now here's the

here's where you have. have to be careful. You have to know what you're doing in this because these people are fucking crazy. And I'm one of these people who believes that they can turn our fucking lights out. Yeah, China? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I urge everybody to look at the North Korean satellite that has a very, it's, I think

is their only satellite? It doesn't take any pictures, doesn't do anything. But as a very peculiar orbit, that would be pretty much useless as a satellite, unless that satellite was anything other than electromagnetic pulse device. It also happens to be at the perfect altitude that one would. And unless anybody believes that North Korea whipped that up themselves, you can believe that North Korea whipped that up themselves, and that's not actually a Chinese. but if you do believe that, you also have to believe that China would have at least, if

North Korea has one, China's got more than one. And remember that Chinese satellite that went and was like eating other satellites back in the day? This was like last year or two years ago. It literally like was going or it was the satellite. It's actually really crazy. Everybody wants to look into it. It was big news.

China had a satellite that was zipping around and basically crunching. other satellites. Huh. And maybe, maybe, you know, we want to talk, not talk about it. This is rhetorical. You know, maybe someone wants to talk about the fact that there are 250,000 Chinese nationals in our universities at this very moment. Every time, every couple weeks, they get busted in the military for leaking information.

Yeah, I think we need to be racist as a matter of national security because it seems that all the leaks and all the people that get caught doing espionage all have a name like Xinjiang Chong. Like, holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Wait, how do we find the Chinese moles? Get the roster. You know, the whole Uyghur thing was the biggest fucking distraction. It was the distraction against all of this. it was to distract us, oh, we have to worry about these, these like literal terrorists who were caught in the summer of 2001 training with the CIA in Afghanistan and to be sent back to China to disrupt them. And yeah, sure, that's something to think about.

but no, it's, when you, when you start fucking with a country that has a billion people and then I heard somebody the other day arguing they don't have a billion people, that's a lie. I don't care. When you start fucking with their current. Yeah. Do you, when you start fucking with their currency to a people that have no God other than, you know, Machiavellianism? Watch the fuck out. Yeah.

How many Americans do we have embedded in Chinese institutions within China? I bet you'd be really easy to find. And can freely conduct business and communication. Yeah, they're both named Tim Walts. Go into that way, you know. It's absolutely insane that this open, this open society, this, oh, and America's an idea. Anybody can come here and be an American. Oh, how important it is to have, to bring foreigners here to educate them in our universities

so they can see how nice we are and how, you know, they can fall in love with the American. Put them in our military. How about we hate, how about we, how about we just by default, don't trust anyone? Yeah, how'd that work out for the Romans? And we'll start off with about 150 to 200. million Americans right now. Yep. And do you want, I can't remember whose article it was.

It was either shit, I want to make sure I give credit where credit is due. But actually, I'm not even going to say who wrote it. I'm just going to refer people back to your episode about the recruitment crisis. I can't remember who wrote that article that you had on. But I forwarded that article to a lot of people that, let's put it this way, would be in positions of you know, the type of people that would be able to have influence on that policy inside the DOD or at least bring that to people to attention. It was insanely well written.

How long ago was that episode? Over a year ago. So it was Lee Enfield? Yes. And it was an Army War College paper? Yes, yeah, about the draft or something like that. Yeah, yeah. about how we have about how if we would have went up against Russia in Ukraine,

the way Ukraine went up against Russia, we would have been out of soldiers in 29 days? Yep. That's the one. That's the one. But particularly in that article or in the conversation, two of you had, he dropped a fact about the ethnic makeup of men that enlist under combat arms. and then being like 93% a certain type.

Yeah. So if you were to reduce the population to 150, 200 million, like you just said, the amount of fighting men that we would lose would be zero. Yep. It's why Eric Prince is going on about the tip to tail, sorry, the teeth to tail ratio. And that's certain that's why he's talking with Trump. It's the tail ratio where all of the,

the all of the uh the uh the uh dmv workers exist absolutely yeah it's going to be really interesting man i don't like i know i've been kind of hyperbolic in in the past about like what's coming down the pike but i i really think right now and like i know like there's literally like i got a lot of commentators like in our sphere basically saying like oh, it's like a slow news day. I mean, we don't have fuck all to talk about. I've been kind of absent on Twitter and in the discourse for like two or three weeks, but this is probably the most not depressed, I would say, but like spiritually apprehensive

period I've had that I can remember in like the last five years. Like to where like the amount of times that I breast. is in order of magnitude higher than it was pretty much any time in the last five or six years. It just, it feels like something bad is going to happen, man. It really does. And I would say this is at least the most dangerous. If what, if it is what you and I were texting about, then God help us. Yes.

God help us all. And you know what's really crazy? Is that every other person at the decision-making table outside of Donald Trump is basically fighting for the worst-case scenario to happen. Europe, they're fighting for the worst-case scenario to happen. The Middle East, Israel, fighting for the worst-case scenario to happen. Half of our fucking government, fighting for the worst-case scenario to happen. And I question, I really question.

question the people who are in charge right now. I didn't talk about that signal leak when it came out because it was turned into slop so quickly. But the talk about the, oh, we're tracking this guy. Oh, he's going to visit his girlfriend in this building. All right, we'll just drop a bomb on this building. Hey, way to go. Where's the crisis of conscience? I mean, to tie it back to the dullest thing if you read these guys, everyone in a position of major authority within the agency, these men had deep metaphysical convictions and a lot of weight to their ethical decision-making processes. I mean, looking at this administration, everyone fixakes on the wrong angle.

They focus on the like opsec involved in the chat. Yeah, sure, I agree. But the big problem is there's not a single person that's asking. in that chat, hey, is this the right thing to do? Should we be doing this? Right? You always need to red team it. It was also kind of brilliant, though.

I'm not going to lie. Right. So if you remember, the person, who was the person that brought in that, that reporter? Mike Waltz. Alex Wong, yeah. Mike Waltz. Wasn't he like the third pick for, what is he, the, uh, he's a guy under the, National Supervisor, yeah.

Everybody should look back at the previous two people that Trump and Tulsi, yeah, Tulsi wanted for her second in command. They were both shot down, you know, choice number one and choice number two were shot down for not being anti-Israel, but just not being pro-Israel enough. And this guy was number three that basically said, sailed through the Senate confirmation in like an hour. So if you wanted, if you thought you had a leaker that wasn't playing for the team, and this guy has been vocally anti-Trump in the past and is a huge fan of, you know,

the Levant, could you imagine like an easier way of like just waiting, like, letting that guy out himself? because all of it all the media attention has been on heggseth right and all of the basically everybody that the media has already hated already and nobody seems none of the media wants to talk about the guy that actually brought the journalist in no I'm seeing I bet you that conversation is being had inside the Trump administration he was also the guy pushing the Uighur stuff in 21. And, yeah, I agree with you that, you know, Hegseth is, I mean, he's just like a line officer.

Yeah, I literally think Pete's, Pete's interpret, Pete's take on Hegseth initial was the best, and I think it's the one that holds true the most. What did I say? I don't even remember those 10 years ago. This is a guy that's not qualified for the job, and he's there because he is loyal to Donald Trump and no one else. Well, I mean, that's a lot of the people around him. But, you know, when it comes to that signal chat, Dave Smith was on Joe Rogan the other day.

And he was talking about that. And he said, do any of these people fear God? Does he? You're dropping, everyone in that chat, including a Catholic, including a Hindu, including Protestants, we're celebrating dropping a bomb on a fucking apartment building to kill one guy that they thought may have something to do with something. This is, I wonder,

this is what, this is what happens to you when your country is taken over by fucking Zionists. You become just like them. No morality. I was about to say, you don't care anymore. Yep. You can only watch so much of what we've been forced to watch.

watch without being changed. Right. We're watching dehumanizing acts, saying how unhuman the perpetrators of these acts are, but it has an effect on us. You don't watch the dehumanizing of someone else, large gloss of people, without being dehumanized yourself. Right? We are all less for what has been happening in guys.

Gaza, whether you want to say, oh, well, you know, you're sorry, but like, if I hear, like, anybody, I mean, Pete knows, like, me personally, anybody that wants to call me third world this, I will happily invite you to come call me that in person. That's not what I'm talking about. Like, you can't watch what we've been forced to watch without being dehumanized yourself. Like, everyone's value of human life has been cheapened now for just having, been witness to it. I firmly believe that because we've all been forced to abide evil. As a country, as individuals, we've been forced to look away whether we have no other choice

but to or whether we've actively doing it, like the people in our government, right? I think you are spiritually lessened by having abided it. And I don't know what the long term effects of it are. But I really think that everyone has become less for having been forced, literally forced, like the fuck, like clockwork orange, our eyes taped open, watching what happens, or watching what's been happening. You don't, you don't do that without, you don't, you don't watch what we've had to watch, eyes taped open, right, not being able to fucking look away from it and not be changed. One thing that really bothers me is when I see Trump administration officials lie

while wearing a cross. I have a big problem with that. And I also have a big problem with the lack of any kind of shame. I mean, I mean, and every, you know, I agree with everyone on the journalist thing. But you should need to have an answer for when a journalist asks you a hard question. question about ethics. And I think you have a huge obligation as a Christian to answer honestly and truthfully and thoughtfully when you kill someone or when you order someone's death.

You need an answer beyond deflecting. And it just, it really rubs me the wrong way that people can lie while we're in cross. Yeah. I only wish these journalists weren't atheists like fucking retards because I think a better question to be thrown on any of these assholes or do your actions honor God? Yeah.

All right. That's it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's the end right there. That's, do your actions honor God? That's the end right there. Anybody want to promote anything? Nothing to promote?

No. Nothing to celebrate either, unfortunately. Yeah. All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much. And let's do it again real soon. Fuck man, it's fun. Thank you.