The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1210: The Future of the Papacy w/ Bird and Dark Enlightenment

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

116 MinutesPG-13Bird from the Timeline Earth podcast and Dark Enlightenment from the Thought Crime Syndicate and Fundamental Principles podcast join Pete to discuss the choosing of a new Pope and what that means for the church's future.Timeline Earth PodcastDE's Telegram ChannelFundamental Principles PodcastPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on Twitter

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experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dunebeg. Search Trump Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Doonbiog, Kush Farage. If you want to support the show and get the episodes early and ad free, head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support. I want to explain something right now. If you support me through Substack or Patreon, you have access to an RSS feed that you can plug into any podcatcher, including Apple, and you'll be able to listen to the episodes through there. If you support me through Subscrib Star, Gumroad, or on my website directly, I will send you a link where you can download the file, and you can listen to it any way you wish. I really appreciate the support everyone gives me. It keeps the show going. It allows me to basically put out an episode

every day now, and I'm not going to stop. I'm just going to accelerate. I think sometimes you see that I'm putting out two, even three a day. And yeah, can't do it without you. So thank you for the support. Head on over to freeman beyond the wall.com forward slash support and do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana show. Well, this is going to be a different one.

What's going on, Berdo? Hey, what's up, man? I don't know what I'm getting myself into here, But, yeah, it's going to be a different one. Well, if Dark Enlightenment comes along in 15 or 20 minutes, yeah, things could get really wild, really quick. So, yeah. And as just on this happened by Providence,

I'm releasing this on May 7th. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Well, that's May 7th. Everybody better turn the TV on, I guess. Watch for the smoke colors. Is that the first day of the conclave?

Yeah, it is. It's going to take. Here's a, I'm going to do some predicting. It's going to take a few days. I think that's a safe bet. It's going to take a few days. Yeah, I mean, I don't really think that they actually know. I don't think anybody actually knows.

Every time I see a list of possible popes, it's two or three different guys every time. People have no idea this time, which everybody knew Francis was going to be the Pope last time. I think Benedict wasn't so sure, but John Paul was very sure also. So half of the time, at least in the modern, you get people who we're all very sure of, and then now nobody is sure of who it will be. And so, yeah, I guess today is the day where the conclave begins. begins, but things will only start heating up as the Vatican Insiders start getting tidbits

probably the following day. Yeah, so that's the conclave. It should be 135 electors, maybe 134. Bet you had dipped out, which everybody expected because of the, he was involved in some banking scandal, so he's out. and there may be one other cardinal who is who's not going to attend so you have like 133. 80% of them were appointed by Pope Francis. Then this is where everybody gets to in the conversation.

Well, that's pretty stacked. It is stacked. It's not historically in particular very stacked. Francis has appointed, I think, two more cardinals per year. of his papacy than the next top guy, which was, if I'm not mistaken, it was Benedict. So it's not a huge amount of difference in the years, but he has 80% of the cardinalship. And so that's the field of play. And everybody is wondering, well, who among these men will become the Pope?

basically three factions, three major factions that exist. This is so mirroring the election and wondering who's going to, you know, Trump has like three factions of elites around him. Biden has put in 80% of the frigging judges. I mean, this is, this is. It's totally political. Yeah. Yeah.

It's completely political. It's not the only time in history. it's been very political, but it is very political right now. So Francis has the largest block, predictably. About half of all of the Cardinals, a couple of different Vatican and Southerst have done their indexes of how they think they'll vote. Of course, all of this is speculative.

But Pope Francis's vision is very pastoral and ecumenical and geopolitically focused on the periphery. That's a friendly way to put it. So he's got about half of the Cardinals who are just ready to vote for the next guy, Francis II. And then you have a second faction that makes up about a fifth of the Cardinalship, which wants to kind of keep the Curia out of scandals.

I would call that the centrist faction. One of their primary concerns is ensuring that some of the hallmark moments of Francis' papacy, the vagueness, lack of communication, they're kind of hoping, maybe we can put a lid on that, get someone who's a little bit clearer in their doctrines. And then you have just a very small third traditionalist faction. You know, the liturgical restorationists, they want the doctrinal clarity. but that is the full breakdown and you need they're going to need 86 to 90 votes for one cardinal in order to have that election it's got to be a two-thirds majority and so I don't know there's a lot of names that have been going around so I figured I would do my typical deep dive into some of the names I figured this would be a topic everybody wanted to know about so anyway that's the breakdown of the how the election is going to work in very short.

Yeah, who, I don't want you to make predictions yet and go through everything and we can let you figure out who you think which faction is going to win out. I mean, do you think, all right, here, let me ask you this. Do you think that there is any influence that anybody is going to take into consideration, the fact that like what they've been saying about how priests who've been ordained in the last 10 years are overwhelmingly conservative um is it too early for that do we need another couple papacies i it i i so the only people who really have any effects are the cardinals and so until that flips i don't think like we so we sort of based on

public opinions, all these guys are, they're cardinals, so they're constantly talking to the media. That that centrist group that you're seeing, that is really the, that is really the model that's moving towards a handshake between that center and the youth. Most of the youth, in terms of the young clergy, the priests who are coming up, the influences that they could possibly have on the papacy won't come, if I have to guess, for at least another two papacies. The average papacy length is 14 years in the modern, since 1900. So, 28 years from now, you can start to see that changes. People start getting put into the places of archbishops and cardinalships. But it's very difficult because our church, it doesn't

operate on the timescales of empires or democratic republics it really operates on a completely separate and very long-term time scale so it could be for all i know it could be a hundred years until there is a bend back into a conservative approach it really all depends on the geopolitics and how the church is pressed from the outside and so the quickest possibility is that a lot of that conservative youth, a lot of the clergy who have the chance are coming from South America, which has a burgeoning right-wing priestly movement, and then Asia. These are the two countries, probably with them, by Asia, I mean like South Asia, like India, in particular, there's a lot of conservatives coming out of there.

But in terms of Europe, there is. I've met some very extremely conservative Indians, Indian priests. And Filipinos also. I still don't want them to be pope. Yeah. I, um, the, the, the Western Europeans who have for the majority of the church's history made up, I mean, Italians have, have made up. the bulk of the the popes in history.

But as far as Western Europeans go, do you know the Synodal way? Do you know what the Synodal way is? Should I explain that? The Synod, go ahead. So the Synodal way is a conference, an ongoing conference

that was begun, I think, in 2013. And the subjects of the conference were a lot of very challenging things, like the celibacy among priests, contraceptives, how the church views homosexuality. A lot of these public conversations were being held basically because it was kind of a hand extended out by the Holy See to Germany, where there are a huge number of priests and bishops.

I think the top guy is called Botsker or something like that. This is an extremely progressive leftist group of priests, this region. And Germany has the most clout besides Italy of any Catholic country in Europe, in terms of the money they bring into the church, in terms into the visibility of the church. And so there was kind of a handshake that was done to allow the priests, the bishops to speak more freely on their views of how the church was changing in Germany, in particular. This was a hand extended to the German church.

And what it indicated was that Europe, traditionally the place we got our popes from, is nowhere near where cardinals would feel comfortable bringing people in. I don't expect there to be many more cardinals from the Francis block. I don't expect there to be too many more cardinal appointments from that area for a while. Of course, if we start to see that, then we know the way the church is going. So the chances, increasingly the chances of there being a European pope, I think, unless it's an Italian, tend to dwindle. I think the Italians have a kind of a perennially good opportunity of becoming. the Pope. They always make up a huge number of the cardinalship. Like, I think there's 60 Italians

right now, something crazy like that. And this is after the kind of DEI push. I don't mean that in quite as disrespectful a way as people normally said. All these guys are highly qualified for the job, speak multiple languages, have multiple degrees. But yeah, they definitely opened it up to the parts of the world that are becoming Catholic quicker, which is South Asia. Southeast Asia, Latin America, Africa. So I don't, unless it's an Italian, I don't see a grand possibility of there being a German or a French or in English. I just don't see it as possible. Just to kind of address that particular desire that a lot of people have, you're going to have to become comfortable with the idea of an extremely stern Sri Lankan.

for a little while. And just remember that that's where Thomas went after he left the Holy Land. He went there. Anyway, that's that. That's the chance of that. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive. By design.

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And now this is over the next to Hampshire. Is there that a lot of GUE and not great gree-in' in Aundun, and leant the Gala to do the father Gail to Deirin. In Ergrid, we're the court

in Woonagh with Funevae. There's Ouschrard you are doing on the Angoach Lekkerkes onus onus

all the people tariff in Tashty there are a cooctuagin. Follam Nismau at Ergit Pongahy. Do you think

that you really think they would pick a Sri Lollah? or someone like that? No, I don't. This time around?

I'll go into who I think is not electable. The Sri Lankan that I had in mind is Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith. He is... I think he owns... He is at... Doesn't he work at the gas station by me? Yeah, I think he helped get Vivek into America if I had to guess. Oh, yeah.

He's at the upper age limit. for a new pope. He's 77. At best, he could be transitional, but he does not command a very strong voting block. He is one of the church's great champions of the old Latin Mass. He's been vocally oppositional, in particular to female altar servers in the archdiocese ban them completely. Very anti-globalist, very clear along the doctrinal lines, and he's probably the most, the major voice for South Asia's Catholic conservative population. I mean, if a guy like that was elected, it would be an unprecedented change away from the current state.

This is the Sri Lankan, right? This is Malcolm Ranjith, the gardener. Yeah. It's really interesting. I wonder what his opinion is on Islam, because the two Indian priests I've known in the past couple of years, they would go out of their way. Holy war, yeah.

To crap on Islam in the middle of a homily on a Tuesday mass. In a Tuesday mass. He is, to answer your question, he's extremely vocally challenging towards Islam. But okay, so you don't want to Sri Lankan. What about that other polytheistic religion? We'll get to that. Don't you worry? Okay.

Oh, you mean Hinduism. Not a peep. Oh, no, no, no. No, I'm talking about the other one. There could be a punch. I'm talking about the one that's in that little Middle Eastern country that causes so many problems. Yeah, we'll get to that. All right, we'll get to that.

But, okay, you don't want to Sri Lankan, fine. But how about Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn? You're German, an Austrian, in fact. Well, he is a very progressive pastor. He's unlikely to be voted in, but his name was going around. He does not have a very clear base. So he's very much against the ordination of female deacons, but he's very much in favor of divorced and remarried couples remarriage.

So he's got some weird opinions. He's very progressive on LGBTQ issues, of course. You know, not very good. And so he's out. So there's a German for you. he's kind of out. Now let's do an African. Let's do the number one African. Cardinal Robert Sarah. That's not going to happen. He's 79 years old. I'll just say it right off. That's not going to happen. He's 79 years old. He was associated for a long time with a dicastery for divine worship,

but he had a very tense, openly tense relationship with Francis over priestly celibacy. and the Latin Mass. So there's not a chance. He's getting in, all right? The majority of electors are not in his camp, and having a kind of open tension with the previous Pope is just not. That's not going to work. So he's out.

I don't want him in there for other reasons, but go on. So I'll give you another German. Luxembourgish, actually. I'll give you a Luxembourgish option. Jean-Claude Hollerick, Cardinal Jean-Claude Hollerick, 68 years old, so he's in an ideal age range, but he's an extremely progressive key figure in the Synod on Synodality, which is related to what I was talking about before, the Synodal Way.

He has openly suggested the church needs to rethink its teachings on homosexuality, which he says are currently wrong, and he wants, quote, a fundamental revision of the doctrine. This is the noid pick. If you're a true Vatican conspiracy theorist, this is the guy that you want to be picked to confirm your theory the most.

This is the guy. Hollerick has downplayed his chances. He has said there are many Cardinals who are far more qualified, which essentially just means let me keep focusing on Germany, put someone else in there. So his chances are fairly slim, I think.

So that's that. How about an American? Do you want an American option? What kind of American is he? New Jersey. Italian? I don't know. Irish? Cardinal Joseph Tobin.

He's the Archbishop of New Jersey. also a progressive. He, very close ally, Pope Francis, very much pastoral, socially conscious. Scott basically the same kind of views on all the issues that all the other progressives have. He's a tremendously large man.

There is kind of an unspoken rule against electing popes from the United States. So the chance is zero. The chance will always be zero. anybody in the United States. Hey, look, the city of London has their first Lord Mayor who's an American. You never know what could happen. It is possible.

It is possible. Finally, let me give you another one who will not be elected. Cardinal Pierre Batista Pizza Bala. Everybody loves Pierre Batista Pizza Bala because he's become increasingly popular as the Jerusalem patriarch. He was only made a Cardinal two years ago, maybe even it was last year, so it's very unlikely that he'll be elected. He's good on all the issues. I'm sure he would be even better on a lot of the issues if he was given the opportunity. And I think a guy like this will be excellent in the next conclave, which is likely to be 15, 20 years from now.

He's 60. So he could be 72, in a reasonable amount of time for the following conclave, depending on who comes in. So it's possible. But it's not likely now. He's too young. The issue that he is really good on, you know, that issue, that is not an issue that the church is going to be tackling any time soon, as evidenced by other than the condemnation. as evidenced by most of the church. That besides condemnation,

there isn't a lot of action diplomatically that's going to be taken on this. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Teramar. Now with flexible PCP finance

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Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump-Dunbeg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunebiog, Kush Farage. Well, yeah, I would think that if, or already, there is probably push from a certain group that he would not become pope and plus if he became pope i think a lot of people a lot of people would have problems with that because he could possibly be pope for 25 or 30 years the thing is though that there's um nettonyahu in particular has been very disrespectful to pope francis very very disrespectful to the church and um these guys at this level you know there's no catholic apac right so

When their guy, and these guys love Francis, Francis, they, if the church continues in the progressive way, Francis will become mythologized to something like a Leo. I mean, he was a true champion for pastoralists, even not leftist pastoralists, which I don't think he gets enough credit for. He is a champion of the pastoral generation. And they're just, I don't imagine the disrespect combined with the fact that the cardinalship, the church really doesn't rely on a lot of outside money, if you know what I mean? That I do think that increasingly you're going to see from the progressive wing, which isn't too unexpected, more opposition in that subject matter. It was Francis who appointed Pierre Pizzavala to that position. I mean, just a year and a half ago, during the middle of everything going on.

So he knew what he was doing. He made him a cardinal, I mean. So he knew what he was doing. And I think that that kind of trend actually is going to continue, no matter how left the pilots bend towards. I actually do think that'll continue. All right. So you're basically ruling out everyone.

who won't get there? Do you have a middle group? I have the ones, I think, who have a chance, and I have the one who I think will become the Pope. So I'll give you my list of who I think has a chance, and then I'll just say who I think gets it. So firstly, there is Cardinal Mateo Zupi. He's an Italian. He is the Archbishop of Bologna. And he is known for his peace work. He was Francis's peace envoy. He was known for brokering peace mediations and contracts in Mozambique. That's kind of where he's known from.

And he's also known as a key member of the Sanagidio community. The Sanagidio community, I mean, there's a lot of ways one could express what that organization is. But for the convenience of your listeners, I'll say the Sanagidio community, was one of the key groups that was responsible for organizing migrant corridors into Europe through Ethiopia. So that's the kind of thing that he's up to. As far as liturgy goes, he is a traditionalist friendly, progressive. He is more friendly towards the traditional Latin mass than Francis was. He actually performed traditional Latin masses in Italy, where it has a very different connotation than it does in the United States. and Francis not only didn't have a problem with him doing it, he promoted him a number of times.

They performed a traditional Latin Mass in the pantheon, and it was a huge event, and people were wondering if Zupi was going to get in trouble for this huge event, and there was nothing. Francis was fine with it, and then he promoted him a bunch. So that's kind of a weird thing. You almost never see traditional old mass support among this faction, But he is, I would call him center-left politically, but he is a strong advocate for the migrants. He is a peace envoy in Ukraine, and as far as I looked into the issues, he just wants to get the peace done, which is fine with me.

And he's pastorally been very open on women's ordination, interreligious dialogue with Islam. and he's got a very globalist outlook. Out of the list of all the guys that I have, he's the only one who talked about fiduciusupacons. He made some statements about it. Like, well, this is a very challenging document, and we're going to have to take a lot of time to think about how to apply it. So he wasn't all in on fiduciusplicans either.

He's made some good statements about Israel, Gaza. um and then he made some very curious ones uh he's repeatedly refused to call it a genocide that came out of nowhere i i remember the conversation where he was like it's not a genocide and then uh he he condemned anti-semitism i think in the same conversation so he's italian and he's got a lot of pastoral charisma and closely tied to francis which could be a liability for the conservatives, but I think he's got it. So that's Zupi. Zupi, I say Zupi is Francis II.

He would be the most direct transition into a continuation of a pastorally Francis-like papacy. So that's the chances that I give him. What do you think? I think it's interesting that there are so many who are the open border faggots. who are like okay with the Latin Mass. It's kind of weird. You mean in America? Well, I mean, no.

Well, that's true in America, too, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, yeah. The thing is I think these guys, they view, especially because he's Italian, I think the way they view the traditional Latin Mass is different than the way that Americans do in that, you know, there's lots of different kinds of liturgies. The next guy we'll talk about is from the Philippines. there is a particular, like, liturgical addition to the Nova Sordo, which is specifically for Filipinos.

So it has Filipino hymnals in it, stuff like that. And so I think the way that a lot of the Italians, progressive or otherwise, view the traditional Latin Mass, is an ethnic liturgy. in the same way that the Filipino and do Americans just see it as reactionary? Yes. Well, I can't say that about all Americans, but it's pretty clear, I think, to everybody, that the Latin mass

is an environment, not as a mass, the mass is perfectly good. The Latin mass is an environment attracts people who are basically on their way to leaving the church. And there's a lot of people in the Latin mass who are not interested in anything like that, of course. But it is a pipeline. In the same way, there's like, online, you know, converts to Catholicism or orthodoxy, there's a particular kind of culture that's not the same as what's expressed on the ground or in the churches. It's very much the same kind of

situation. So I don't think that, I think in America, when an American says I go to traditional Latin Mass, it means I don't approve of the Holy See. I don't approve the way the Holy See is going. this mass is an expression of a kind of authenticity I feel I can't get from the Novus Ordo, which true or otherwise, the Holy See looks at that and kind of realizes that this is a schism in the making. And I'm not going to say it's fair because it's not fair, because when you look at the synodality, when you look at the German synodal way, the kinds of things that the Germans have done in opposition to the Holy See are dramatically more bold and dramatically more arrogant than what American traditionalists have said and done.

But that's just the way the cookie crumbles right now. I'm just trying to explain what the relationship is. It's not to say I like it. Okay. Go on. All right. Next guy. Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle.

I think it's Tagle. I don't know. From the Philippines. A video was going around. of him singing John Legends Imagine. To defend the guy, I'll defend him two ways. John Legend or John Lennon? John Lennon.

John Lennon. He was singing Imagine to karaoke, but it was apparently a version of the song that didn't have any of the bad references towards how, you know, Heaven's Not Real. It was just kind of the chorus or something. It was modified. And also, he is Filipino, so you kind of expect them to do karaoke.

So it may just be a different kind of thing. Anyway, he's the most prominent Asian prelate, at least in the Francis block. I would say Cardinal Zan is also a prominent, but maybe we'll talk about him in the next set, not because of him, but he's got a relationship to my third choice. But before we get to him, Tegel is often called the Asian Francis. So you have Francis 2 in Zupi, and you have the Asian Francis in Tagle. He is firmly progressive, though not as much as Zupi in my study. Vatican II inspired, very diological, mercy-centric pastoral style, has a very inculturated liturgy.

I can't even begin to pronounce what it's called, but I described it all. already. He's never done a Latin Mass. He does this inculturated liturgy that is the Novos Ordo, but it has Filipino elements to it. Nothing like folk religious or anything like that. Just again, hymnals, the language, stuff like that. As far as politics and diplomacy go, no big surprise, huge advocate for migrants, refugees, scolded Europe numerous times, which is totally in line with what all of them do. Aligns with that global liberal, agenda on climate change and world poverty and he was involved in the Vatican China relations deal which was very controversial I'll talk about that soon so he's

socially I would say he's more conservative than Zupi but pastorally he's very gentle so he's for instance he's lamented about the harsh language that people have towards homosexuals He is a very strong proponent for synodality in general, stronger than Francis was, I think. And he's had a lot of interreligious dialogue, especially with Islam. And in the Philippines, obviously, they have a big problem with Islamic terrorism. And he's had a unpredictably, I thought he would have a strong opinion on it, but he's had an unpredictably weak public opinion on Islamic terror.

potential for it in the Islamic community. So I was surprised by that. This guy, so basically his benefit is that he's Francis, but Asian. So the cardinal ship really is going to be determining between Zupi and Tagle. Do they want Francis or do they want Asian Francis? And out of those two, I'm leaning they want Francis to not Asian Francis. I mean, the Asian block is not the smallest block, but the Latin Americans will probably vote for a European and probably the Africans will too if I had to guess. Anyway, that's Tagle. Tagle would be a clear sign that the church has fully turned its gaze towards the global south, which has been in the works for about 80 years now,

so it wouldn't be too unexpected if it ended up happening. Anyway, that's Tagle. Who do we have next? We have Paraline. Cardinal Pietro Paraline. This is the elite theory pick, in my opinion. He is a career Vatican diplomat. He was the Secretary of State under the Pope.

He was in the Pope's council. The Pope Francis created a council of cardinals, his inner nine. Paraline is the most recent addition to it. He's of the right age. I think he's 70. Doctrinally, fairly orthodox, but very wary of the Latin Mass in America. Basically very similar to Francis' opinion of the Latin Mass in America, which is the opinion I expressed already. He was the chief architect of the very controversial Vatican China deal.

Have you, do you know about the Vatican China deal? Ready for huge savings? Well, mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. talking thousands of your favourite Lidl items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Lidl Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design, they move you even before you drive. The new Cooper plug-in hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon,

and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro. Search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera. Design that moves. Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement

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with vouchers from Trump-Dunbeg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunbioghush Farage. No, I don't explain this to everyone. Do you know what the investiture crisis of the investiture crisis is something that happened in Europe, and it was basically the appointment of bishops by the state before the approval of the church. So that's going on in China. It's going on in China like every day.

They're doing this every day. I think they just brought six more bishops in since Francis passed. So the Chinese are predictably really. testing the boundaries because they know they have all the leverage, which is why a lot of people view Paroleon's Vatican deal is a total failure. Because it doesn't really, there's no real bargaining chips on the part of the Vatican. And Cardinal Zen, who I think will be a saint by the time all things are said and done, Cardinal Zen, a Hong Kong cardinal. He's currently still under arrest for challenging the Chinese Communist Party and protecting Chinese Catholic. They just let him out on bail so he could participate in this whole thing.

And it's just sad to see the guy hobbling along with his cane, this true hero of the church. And the guy that opposed him greatly is probably going to be the guy who's the next pope, which is Paroleon. Now, Powerline's done a lot of really great diplomatic acts in the past for the church. US Cuba was a huge success for him. But the China thing is really a black stain. I think it was a terrible deal. I think it's something that he needs to walk back. I don't know if he will.

But luckily, he is firmly pro-life, pro-traditional marriage. He called the Irish vote to make legal homosexual marriages a defeat for humanity. He's fully supportive of Francis's line on communion for the divorced and remarried. It's a very similar line, which is to say there's a lot of paperwork that has to be done, annulments have to be done. it's a lot less liberal than some of the more progressives opinions on this. He has a very diplomatic dialogue style overall, totally unmatched in terms of governance experience. He knows the Curia very well, probably the only cardinal who everybody knows him personally within the college.

He's also Italian, which is great for that cardinalship, and he's politically fairly neutral. I think this would be the most likely election. Again, if you're an elite theorist, you can see why. I mean, this is the guy with the power. Even during Francis's papacy, obviously Francis at any time could lift a finger and say, stop, and Paralline had to stop. But Paralline was really the gray eminence of the last papacy. Knows everybody has a lot of power, pulls a lot of strings behind the scene, never really upsets very many. people besides Cardinal Zen and the Chinese Catholics. So I think this is the safest bet,

is Paralin. And now really, those are the top three, Pete. Those are the top three. I think Paraline will get elected not because he controls the largest block, but I think he'll get elected because he will split the Francis block. When the Francis block is trying to choose between Zupian Tegel, which is basically Italians versus the Global South voting in there. I don't think either of them will be able to shift any of the conservatives or any of Paralline centrist voters, and eventually they're just going to have to fall in line to a kind of compromise candidate, which will be Paroleen. So that is my analysis. Obviously, I could totally be wrong. We could be totally surprised, but that is the bulk of it. That we could talk about the other options,

but I just want to get your thoughts on it first. Well, yeah, I mean, it's all politics. Yeah, it's 100% politics. Yeah, so the, you know, the person, and this is almost, what, at this point, it's more like a caucus than an election. Well, there are blocks, yeah, there are ideological blocks. So whoever can get the blocks to collapse into each other. they get what they want. Yeah, and unlike in a democratic system where there is at least that facade that comes in terms of, you know, a democratic vote, the guy who, it's still a popularity contest, but it's because it's so much smaller, the guy who can kind of whip everybody into voting, which I think is Paroline, he's going to be the guy.

And I think they look at his age and they go, you know what? He might only be around for another eight to ten years. so it was good enough for us to kind of stabilize after Francis's transformative regime to kind of have a guy who will kind of carry things on slowly, get the church out of the news. Honestly, as a Catholic, in terms of what is possible, I think Paralene is our best chance, because I kind of agree we kind of have to get out of the news. We really have to get out of the news. And the Catholic Church in America has to go on unopposed, and needs to pick up to slack because the Holy See is not interested in it.

And I think that's how we have to move forward. Yeah, I mean, there's not going to be, I mean, there could be, by divine intervention, there could be a revolutionary kind of, you know, move of some sort, but it just doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen. You know, as we get closer to the end of an age, and we're starting another age, then basically everything's sick. Everything is weakened. And you can see that.

And pretty much every church is, you know, and I love my Orthodox friends, but even they have to admit the church they go to is the base church, because they all know an Orthodox church is not based. You know, they all know that the, I forget what they call their guy in Chicago was running and telling everybody to get the jab, you know, in 2020 and 2021. So, yeah, all of these churches are sick at this point. And it's just going to take a radical kind of move, a radical kind of shift in consciousness in order for this to take on a more traditional bent, or it's going to evolve into something completely different?

Yeah, it could be either. It's, it's, it, we, the church is in this, this period of time that the church is in right now is very progressive. And, um, the church will come out of it and will become very conservative again, and then it will probably oscillate as it has throughout history, it will continue to. And I think that's the main point for a lot of Catholics, you have to remember, is that you exist in a very short period of time and a church's very long history. There is a cosmic trust the plan to a lot of this, but it doesn't mean you have to be satisfied with any of it. I have to say I'm really not particularly satisfied with any of the possible options. You know, there's

also Cardinal Peter Erdo. I think that's how you pronounce it, my Hungarian friends. I'm probably got that wrong, so I forgive me. But, you know, he's considered the most the conservative, and by that people mean that he has Benedict the 16th theology, which is not particularly conservative. So I think he's being propped up as the conservative option, and I just don't even, I don't even see that there. So I see a lot of people winding themselves up into thinking that a theological conservative has an opportunity here, and I just, I think that's kind of, you're just winding yourself up for nothing. you there DE? Yeah, I am. Yeah, well, great time for you to step in. Bird, dark enlightenment, you can call them D. D. Birdo. Nice to meet you.

I love the show. Timely night is one of my favorites. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. It's precisely as serious as our times deserve. Yeah, I'm glad this. one as we've done it so far didn't go too serious it's uh i kind of realized halfway through doing the research for this um there was a kind of uh it's so over feeling as i got further and further into

the list of them um yeah i talked about yeah briefly on my show and um who did you have who were your the ones you covered um tagley of course parallelin um the Mueller's not that great. I mean, you know, like this is, the thing that people need to understand is, is that the whole institution is rotten from top to bottom with people who, who think that,

you know, like yesterday's radicals are somehow these arch conservatives. It's like, no, no, like, Benedict 16th was a Peretti at the council in a suit and tie. You know,

Mueller talked. Yeah, I like Benedict. But there's a lot of myth making about that, a lot of fond looking back as though it wasn't an extension of John Paul II. Right. And, you know, Benedict talked about the abuse crisis, but he didn't do anything instead of CDF. Right? Like, you know, like, who made Macarica Cardinal, John Paul the second?

Who made Brigolia Cardinal, John Paul the second? You know, like the entire, and to, you know, state my position, I'm firmly convinced. that Brigolio was never a pope, that either between the invalidity of Benedict's resignation and or the canvassing ahead of time per university of Dominique Gregus by Jumpo the Second occurring excommunications for all people involved. Like somehow, Burgolio was never a pulp. I'm not a 1958 advocateist. I have some sympathies in that direction, but, but, um, the idea that like perilyn is like somehow or zupi's like catholic and we need to respect that and then like no these guys like i put it on my own show like if you think women deacons are okay you're not in position to be pope because you're not catholic you're not even really yes that that was explicitly zupi's position right right which is why i brought him up right like like and you can go into and you know like like

Turkson's not that great, right? Like, yeah, I, uh, I have Turks in here as my fifth most likely. I think he's like the weird candidate. If there's something weird goes on. Right. You know, uh, Togley is sitting there like in a golf shirt singing. Imagine. Yeah.

I, yeah. Like, what did I say? That one is brutal. Like, you know, oh my gosh. Like, have some self-respect, Matt. You know, and there's just not. It's what Filipinos do. They like karaoke, though.

And I understand that as a Filipino, he's genetically, loves karaoke. They love karaoke, yeah. They love it. Yeah, but, you know, like, you're a cardinal prince of the church. Like, I am absolutely certain that, you know, whoever rents karaoke machines can be told, hey, the Cardinal Archbishop of Manila wants a karaoke machine. Take the job, letting off. And he'd like one installed in his Episcopal palace.

Don't tell anybody, and here's an extra thousand bucks for you. Like, just have some sense of self-respect as opposed to, like, showing a lieutenant golf shirt and doing, like, your best, like, early, like, early, um what was that show um where all the singing was terrible to start like a american idol yeah america like your best american idol impression like yeah right just no self respect it's just like you know i don't i don't like do things i'm really bad at in public for public consumption because i i i have enough self respect for my for myself and others that i that i don't like deliberately go make a fool myself just because it would be funny you know so it is

It is worth mentioning. I forgot. I neglected to say this in going through the five who I chose, but none of them, I think they are all secular priests. I don't think any of them are a part of any religious orders. But Tagle, how are you saying it? Togley. Togley, yep. That's what I thought. Yeah. Okay. Tagley, it was educated by Jesuits. And I knew that, and I kind of had the sense of that when I saw the golf shirt. I was like that has to be, there has to be some Jesuit influence in there. And indeed it is. Yeah, of course, right? Because that's how you really know someone serious with the faith is that they, that they try to be Pastor Bob with the golf shirt. It's like, no, actually, I'd rather you just wore a cassock and like, I don't want you to be my buddy. Jesuits love those golf shirts.

I don't know where that comes from. They really do. That's their leisure wear. Yeah. It is very strange. Like I think you're right. I don't, I don't think it's possible that, that there's this, you know, we're, we're, we're, oh, just we're one second away from, you know, like a Benedict the 17th or, you know, God forbid, like a Leo the, you know, or a Pius the 14th or something like that's not happening.

Right now, is it what we need? Yes. is their right? The only place the church is growing, right, is the traditionalist movement

because that's, if you think about it for any length of time, like more than 10 minutes, right? The whole premise of liberalism, qual liberalism, is a rejection of the Catholic Church.

Whether it's Rousseau or John Locke or any of these people, right? The heart of liberalism is a rejection of the church. And so you can't like combine matter and antimatter and hope that it like all works out. You just can't.

And the sooner people realize this, the more, you know, viable the church is going to be, you know, Benedict XVIth was not wrong when he said like the church is going to shrink because even, you know, in America where things are supposedly, you know, the most conservative, you know, church-going country in the traditional West.

The majority of people, like, who are in Catholic Jews are pro-game marriage, quote-unquote, right? Like, they're pro. They don't believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. They have basically Christianological errors, levels of understanding of the creed. Yeah. And the American church is happening.

to kind of instruct people to not ask questions like that. Right. You can have your strange beliefs. Just just get you into the church. Don't tell them. Don't even tell me. Right. Or like Australia,

you know, like they threw pell in jail over nonsense. Right. Like they threw. Right. Yeah. So it's the, oh,

these other, these other countries are going to be, you know, pro, um, more. pro-Christian, like, no. No, they're not. They're just not. It's not going to happen. And, um, the, oh, the third world is going to

save us. Like, they, they're worse off. They're so syncretist. They're barely even Christians. In many cases. You know, the African bishops will be like, we're not doing fiducius duplicants because queers, but also, we need to revisit the whole polygamy question. Like, yeah. Oh. Yeah. Yeah, well,

it almost seems like synodality is assured. Yeah, right. And, and, well, I mean, truth be told, right,

if synodality is the thing, why not just have national churches and be Orthodox? I mean, I mean, like, well, obviously I'm not, but,

and I'm not going to, but, but, but, you just destroyed any argument for, like, the primacy of Peter and,

the one church and you know like you just not well it's another reason why i think parraline has a good chance is that kind of thing would be totally detrimental to the the the power structure of the church and i i do just see parolene as being that option i mean he's very much against the synodality thing whereas tagla is very much in favor of it i believe zupia's too so i uh i know the francis block has indicated support for some level of synodality but I I imagine that there's going to be something to pull back otherwise I think that question you just asked is what every Catholic is certainly in America is going to have to ask themselves is like what really

what is the difference here then right yeah I mean like if you're going to ban the liturgy that actually says like hey we believe this stuff and we want our children to believe it and Like this is not just, you know, Father Bob playing his guitar. If you're going to ban the old mass. And then you're going to say, well, the structure of the church is wrong. And you're not going to like you're not, and you're going to go after people who actually try and do what the church teaches. Like, why are you here still?

Right. You know. And that's the, that's ultimately the choice, right? and unfortunately because conservatives you know orwell who was a great writer in many ways right if there's hope it lies in the proles no conservatives have no revolutionary potential at all they'll just like keep eating shit because the institution told them to because they they have they don't think hard like if they're told like mass is this good thing that's going to be high culture they'll be like okay if they're told like if they're told like Mass is going to be these, you know, guitar stuff. They'll be like, okay. And they'll just go along. Look at, look at, you know, look at 2020.

Like, like, they, they just, yeah, we're going to blatantly steal the election and lock you all inside your houses over like a bad cold that we put. Right. Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess, uh, that's, that's fine. Yeah. So how, how are these people going to, you know, like actually save anything? They just went along with the destruction of the church. you know, baptism's down 90%.

Marriage is down 90%. You know, like, show me one indication in the church outside of the traditionalist movement that's actually going places. It's just not. I really do think that the church has turned its eyes away from the West, I mean, for better or worse. It's just turned its eyes totally away from the West. I mean, you agree with that? Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, in the same.

sense that it's not just that things are ineffective in the United States. Things are going very well in other countries, in other regions. In Africa, the spread of the faith is going very well. So I don't, I just don't, you know what I mean? I don't understand why the church has turned its eyes away from the West. Is it the problems that we have just can't be confronted? Is Americanism so deeply entrenched? They just are willing to build up to a schism? I don't, I don't, there's What do you think? I think that there's been a de facto schism for at least 20 years. Like the amount of time, like I was deeply, deeply involved in many, you know, like pro-JP2 things.

And the amount of American bishops who just was like, yeah, that's nice, but, you know, we're going to be pro-contraception in this diocese. Or we're going to be pro-abortion in this diocese. We're going to be, you know, communist or whatever. So that's just how it goes, you know. I think that the church thinks that without, that, that like, there's this tension that they can hold on to, that they can hold on to both wings. the, you know, for lack of a better term, the apostate left wing and the, and the, you know, genuine believer wing in the West and that they'll continue to fund things and that they'll have this upswell of believers from the third world.

But, you know, Brazil used to be the biggest Catholic country in the world in terms of opposition. It's just buying time. It's not anymore. Yeah. Right? Because, frankly, you know, their world is a. kind of stupid and

Catholic theology is complicated and when they're told you know like Islam is growing fast in those countries you know low church Protestantism which is frankly kind of stupid I mean Pete will tell you all about it um

oh getting me in trouble well I think yeah I think you that's I mean that's kind of built into the system is there's going to be some kind of low church proliferation at some point. And really, that's not even my personal concern. You know, it's not good for the church, but it's not really even my personal concern. I just sort of wonder, because we have our quote-unquote national church in the United States. We have our bishops,

we have our archbishops. I think the eyes have to turn back towards that. I think as far as the Holy See goes, this is going to be like this. I was telling Pete for like, this could be the hundred years of this style before there's any significant change in the move away from pastoralism or anything of the sort of, and this could be a hundred years. So it doesn't even seem like there's a great reason to... Oh, yeah. There's... What can I say? Engage with the Holy See. You know what I mean? No, no. Not to stand in opposition to it, but, you know, you're not ex-executive. communicated. You're not in penalty of sin. Go do your sacraments and be the best Catholic you can.

I think the promise is still there for the individual. So is to not scandalize anybody away from the church, but the challenges to the structure of the church are there. They're very real and they are there. And so coordination will suffer. Oh, absolutely. And I think that the most important thing people can do is just, I mean, double down on. I was not around for the for how bad things got in the 70s and 80s in the tradd movie, like where there were, you know, masses in hotel ballrooms and that kind of thing.

I got to know some of those people as I, as I got older, that I've talked to them. And we're just going to have to build for the long haul outside of it. And that sounds like a really non-Catholic thing to say. But if you, if you want to preserve it the faith, which is the most important thing, right?

the first law of the church is salvation of souls. If you want to actually save souls, if you want to actually, you know, take the baptism promises you make with your children are baptized seriously, you're going to have to do what people are doing now. You're going to have to homeschool them, educate them outside of the parish, you know, CCD program where people will tell you that women priests are coming any day and they're okay. And, you know, it's just plenty of good homeschool curriculums approved by. the Holy See, by the way.

I mean, they are good, solid, uh, uh, curriculums. Yeah. And, and you have to use those and you're going to have to, you know, you're going to have to be, um, wherever you choose to hang your head ecclesiastically, whether it's, look at diocesan parish or local adult mass or with society or whatever, you're going to have to be very deliberate about where and how you go about saving your soul. And, and you just aren't going to be able to count on anybody in a pointy hat. because the guy in the pointing hat

cares about not getting heat from Rome cares about you know getting his government checks or you know actively just doesn't care because in 1978 if you wanted to be a man in a dress and sing Broadway show tunes and dress fabulous you had to enter the you know

the priesthood and so that's that's what happened right Now, we can say that those guys are getting old now, but, you know, all these J.B2 types thought that, you know, the biological solution was imminent. And no, no, look at what happened with Francis. Like, there are way more of the people who are more pro-liberalism in the church than you thought. And even the people that you thought are conservative aren't all that conservative. look at look at the shownborn for instance right he was the editor of the editor of the 94 catechism and you know he's like just a liberal company man now right because that's what he

always was because jump over the second was a moderate conservative you know who tried to try to try to give the council uh i and and so he wrote i don't know i think at an individual level you've got to uh you've got you've got to i don't know i don't know i i don't know So I'll put it this way. I don't think that this kind of trend is inevitable. I think this is very much an element of the culture war. And that at some point it will change, totally change. But I don't know how you feel about that.

I think if it changes, because there's just no more culture where to fight. And it'll be obvious that, you know, conservatives decisively lost. Right. I mean, that's, yeah, that's just not, right, you have to fight it in order for it to, or you have to understand that you're actually in a fight in order for the cultural war to think to be real. And for the vast majority of, you know, so-called right-wing Catholics, they don't even understand that like, that, you know, Joseph Tobin does not care if your children go to Heldon or not. Like he just doesn't. Nighty Night baby Tobin does not care if your children pass on the faith to your

grandchildren. Right. These are not people that are going to really, really go to the mat to try and save a Christian culture that they don't really believe in. And that describes of the papability. talked about, right? Yeah. You know,

Zupy at least. Tagli at least. Um, you know, some, um, who was, uh,

uh, not Erdo. Um, Parallin, right? Like Perilyn hates the Latin mess. He really doesn't care. Whether or not your,

your grandchildren. remain in the faith or not. It doesn't matter to him, right? You know, then Victor Manuel Fernandez, the head of the CDF, right? The Holy Office is not really super interested in whether or not your children remain Catholic

because he helped draft the stuff that said, all religions lead to God. So, right? Like, it's not something that most of these guys, care about they care about meeting their budgets and you know political influence for the for the most part you know we talk about um you know burnham wrote that boat the book the managerial revolution in 1940 talking about managerialism all he really needed to do was study the church yeah and in fact

the real problem is is that Vatican 1 didn't define I mean if I define the upper limits of people infallibility but it didn't define the lower end of the envelope of people authority and what it effectively did is turned every bishop into a like McDonald's branch manager

or franchise manager of the sacraments I hate to put it that way but but realistically right if you can remove Strickland for wanting to, you know, out of genuine concern, right, you can just remove him from his diocese? Well, then why is he like each bishop supreme in his own diocese, right? Like apparently not. Apparently he's just the branch manager for, you know.

So, and most people have to navigate this with, you know, granted, much less knowledge then Bird is presented. This is an outstanding document that the bird produced. No, but most of these prelates aren't really much interested in whether or not. Like your grandchildren baptize their children or get married at all, right? And that's increasingly the thing in the West. It's increasingly the thing all over the place, right? creating fertility in all over Asia, creating fertility in Latin America.

Marriages are down. People just like you just double down, double down on your little platoons and, you know, pray. Because the Francis part of the church just isn't having kids. Like, you know, if trans-disabled lesbians with two dogs are like just as welcome. you know, if all are welcome in this place, then the people who really genuinely believe it and reject a lot of this stuff and have, you know, whether that that's in the society, say, bys a 10 through the set of conscious movements or whatever, they're the only people who are going to have a future. You know, the African stuff, right? They might be having four, five, six, seven, eight kids right? but if you expose them to you know contraception buffalo wildling

and PlayStation they're they're not going they're not going to keep doing the hard thing of like doing what the church teaches they're just not because they haven't been catechized well enough to understand why it's a problem

um you know they have the rampant syncretism problem um you know and they're just going to have a real problem in the future. And for all that Africa might have lots of Catholics, they aren't going to have any money. And right now, you know,

a source of money for the church is the United States and Germany, basically. Yes, I was going to say a huge amount of it is Germany. That's the only reason why, well, that's one of the major reasons why the Sonoma way was tolerated to the extent that it was. Right. So openly. Right. But not only is that like going away.

I mean, I'm more. Yeah, that's inevitable. In my more cynical moments, I've described the USCB as a property holding management company that has sidelines and human trafficking and occasionally dispensing sacraments. But the reason that that's just not going to,

continue is if all the money is coming from, you know, places where the faith is dying, maybe, maybe, you know, a smaller, poorer church might have a future. But a church with, you know, 13 Italian cardinals where every one of them has their own cardinal archbishop brick palace and all that other stuff. Like, that's not happening, man. Sad. Right. But, you know.

It was better when it was. led entirely by Italians, except for one brief stints that I can think of. Yeah, I mean, why is everyone saying the future of the church is African? The past of the church is African. All right. All right. Got. I saw that one going around on the timeline a bunch.

Well, yeah, of course, right. So, like, there's Sicilians and Calabrians in the church. What do you need? we've always been multicultural what do you mean there's never been an african church pope anthony was a sicilian in the year 310 yeah um he was our first black pope just bans just bans you know i love you meds

i mean is it you know i think think about someone like pious to 12th who had to deal with the worst thing like the world has ever seen and just how he could he didn't have to choose sides he could just be who he could just be who the pope was supposed to be and it i mean that's what 80 years ago yeah anyone who's ever read his letter to the spanish people um after the war, after the Spanish Civil War ends, if you can get through that without crying, you're a better man than me. I cry every time, dude.

Yeah. It just goes to show that, you know, I was saying this before you got on here, Dee. Everything is just sick. Everything is diseased. Everything is poisoned. And, you know, every one of us knows someone who's like, no, my church is based. I'm like, yeah, but a church that calls itself the same thing right down the road. You have to say your church is based.

You have to, if you want to talk about a base church, you have to give an address. You know, it's not like your, everything is sick at this point. Right. Yeah, everything is sick. And, you know, like Paralin is sitting here, you know, he has said the Holy See could, quote, continue to educate the population. towards a positive view of Margaret's unquote. It's like he's saying that from behind a wall that's like 20 feet tall

and there's Swiss guards with halberds everywhere. And, you know, truth be told, right? And this is a big problem that the church is going to have in the future. And that's why I do my show is, like, if you can't accept the reality of, like, a population with an IQ of 100 going to church, versus the population with an IQ of 70 going to church, you're,

like, if you think those are going to be the same thing, you're just not dealing with the real world. And, you know, an IQ 70 church is not going to produce theologians. It's not going to produce, it's hardly going to produce priests,

right? You're not going to have a Thomas Klanis come out of a population that, that, where, you know, literacy is a stretch for these people. And that's that's just the bare facts.

I'm not trying to black bill anybody or make anyone's life worse or whatever. But like that that's just reality. And as Pete has been fun of saying lately, you know, you haven't met the average Indian yet. Right? Like if that's, you know, that's the, if that's the population that is, you know, the future of the church like, oof. Right? And I've been involved in Catholic stuff for as an adult, you know, or a young adult for 30 years.

And, you know, who shows up to clean up the church? You know, who gives money to the church? You know, who does all the volunteering? Middle-aged white guys. I was going to, yeah, older white Catholics, yeah. Middle-aged white guys. That's who shows up to help. That's who puts money in the plate on Sunday.

That's who does most of the work in the pews, right? His retired old ladies and middle-aged guys who, you know, do what they can't. And if the entire population that goes to church is used to receiving benefits from the church and doesn't expect to put anything into the church, which is what the calculation the United States is Los Angeles made and look at how well that's turned out. you know, like it's just not going to continue from a purely economic point of view. Yeah, if you are, you are sketching out what I think is pretty much an inevitable.

I don't know what you'd call it a shrinkage towards the diocese. at least in terms of the attention and the focus when something becomes globalist when it becomes oriented towards a global position there just isn't going to be any liturgical

unity and so I think we're all going to have to as Catholics we hopefully there's some breathing room with the traditional Latin Mass, but I think liturgy is really going to be the big topic of the next hundred years. What is the difference between liturgy and how far does can liturgy go before we start to see something that's just different, a different mass that's not essentially

the same thing? And I do wonder about that, but I also wonder how much that affects. You go ahead. Have you read, um, work of human hands by Father Anthony Chakada? Uh, no, I have not. Pick it up. It's magisterial. It's a really, really good book. It details all the problems with the new mass from a traditional perspective. And I think that you're there already. You know, what you're going to see, right? And most people, and this is again, you know, like I love you, conservative, you know,

never sort of people. But you're wrong. And here's why. that is that for you to be right, for everything to be hunky dory and everything to be, you know, new springtime, whatever. The fundamentals have to be there and they're not.

The New Mass fundamentally changes a bunch of different stuff. the nature of the church to other religions. And Nosratate has a completely different orientation towards Muslims and Jews than the church did previously. And that's not working out so great, to be honest, right? For 1,400 years, the Spaniards worked to, like, they worked to get their country back from the, you know, the Muslims for 700 years. years and all of a sudden now like isabraal parralta's going to jail for being like hey didn't we fight 700 years to keep the morocans out of spain and now right and the church is you know the church in germany he's like we have to vote against the a fd like did didn't yeah the german church

is just not making it out it's it's cooked right yeah it's it's beyond cooked and i don't know i i don't know, I, I don't know about America though. I'm not as sure about the United States, but I'm very sure about Germany. Well, to the extent the church exists there, it's, it's traditionalist. I mean, it's society St. Iepius and 10th and other

traditionalist organizations are for where the church has a future and people have families and people go to mass. Like, that's, that's, it was bad when I visited there 20 years ago. But, and it's only gotten worse since.

but for the conservative novos sort of types who want everything to be okay in the future the the underlying premises have to be correct but they're not right like i said earlier in the conversation the fundamental problem with liberalism is the same as the fundamental problem with judaism and that is at the heart of both of them is a rejection of jesus christ and a rejection of God, that whether it's locking liberalism or, or, what's that, Rawls, right, you know, I am this monadded space. And if you can get pick anywhere or whatever, like that, that just completely destroys the point of families and contingent things and, you know, the faith that you're given, right? Like no one, hardly anybody, you know, like, chooses to be baptized as a kid.

Like your parents baptize you when you're, what, a week old, you know, or they should. And you are raised in a Catholic culture. And the folks that want everything to be good in the future want the foundation. They want the building to stand up, but they want to. to remove the foundation. And that's just, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And the difference between, you know, a local Democrat politician and the, you know,

the hardcore, like anarchist collectivists in Spain, which is the weirdest thing to say, like anarchist collectivist, but that's what they were, you know, is really a matter of degree. It's not a difference in kind. like they don't fundamentally disagree with premises on on who man is and what what you know what's the point of life you know they they want to be uh what is how charles heywood put it right unyoked to any unchosen non deliberately chosen bonds anywhere at any time forever i think Charles Haywood puts it better than I could ever um But and the church has tics like realize that. And I don't think most of it like even Erdo who I like most of the time, right? I don't think he fully grasped it.

Now he's he's doing the best job of anybody available right now of like no like Hungarians or Hungarian and that it's right for them to want to stay Hungarian. And like Victor Oregon isn't the worst person in history of the world for merely wanting, you know, as doing his job. as the Prime Minister of Hungary to promote the interests of the Hungarian people. But I don't think that, you know, and certainly most of the people in any position of authority, whether it's the church or the state, like, they don't understand anything. if they did, you know, timeline earth would be getting more phone calls from important people going, hey, man. Boy, is that true. Right.

You know, it's gratifying to know that there are some important people listening to Pete's programs and stuff like that. But, you know, to quote, you know, Cardinal Sarah, right, you know, who's just not going to get in and it to be a, you know, a miracle if he did, right? Right. The hour is late, you know. Yeah. The title of his book. right like and you know for most and mostly you guys are old that's the other thing like you can see it you know in the just past canadian elections right like Canadian boomers basically handed their country over to a weirdo central banker because they were really afraid

about confronting Donald Trump and um you know American boomers are all out there doing protests about their social security it's like you don't understand how bad things are for everyone under 40 or even under 50. Like you live in this boomer bubble where like, yeah, you got divorced once in like 1984 and it messed up your kids for life. But like you got married to your, you know, second wife who's, you know, from Thailand in, you know, 1991 and you've stayed married since.

And, you know, your house has paid off. and, you know, bought it for $40,000 back or $80,000 back in 1984. Now it's worth $4.3 million. Look at that. Look who's a financial genius, you know, like, yeah, right? Just buy land. Yeah. They're not making any more of it.

Actually, the Chinese are. You know, but like, but that's, they don't know. these um these old men with money and who are insulated from everything right like someone drives them they get up in the morning and there's like servants who make them breakfast and help them get dressed and they say their private mass and then they go do meetings and people drive them everywhere or you know there's security all the time they've never been like on a street in Rome surrounded by

Africans trying to sell you crap, right? Which you'd assumeedly you'd think the Cardinals might have experienced that at one point or another. But no, they don't.

They just don't, right? They don't know. You know, Peter Codwo Apah Turksen, born in 1948. You know,

is from Ghana. Yeah. Right? He has no, idea what life is like for the average person since he got to Rome in the 90s. Yeah. He is, and he's probably the shining example of the UN guy, the UN Pope, of which there are many now. Yeah. Right. I mean, he's one of the strangest of them all to me. in terms of a guy who might receive the election, probably won't, but the variety, it almost feels as though when you're looking through the,

popable candidates, there shouldn't be nearly as much disagreement on positions as there is. And it's all the, and it's to a ludicrous degree. I mean, some are in favor of divorce and remarriage and annulments for, you know, minor reasons for divorces. And then, but they're also only traditional marriages, no homosexual marriages. And then there are some who are very stern about divorce, but they would marry homosexuals. It seems like it's, I mean, as I looked through all of the Cardinals, the various publicly stated positions, the only unity seems to be the uniqueness to which one of the Cardinals can have a very liberal opinion. Yeah, it's crazy. least half of them, at least half of them.

Right. So I'm going to the College of Cardinals report.com slash where they stand. And like ordaining female deacons. And this is every cardinal or like everyone who's even slightly papillia, right? So this is 50 people as opposed to the more realistic five that you talked about. But like, why is there anybody that thinks it's okay? Right. right no Sean Bourne says it's okay

this is the guy that I edit I said edited it than 94 cat you know right there's some very and I'm sure we could go into it I don't know how much longer we have but there's some very clear answers to why it is that way it isn't yet lost on a lot of us you know

why it is that way there's a massive infiltration in yeah so I mean you already talked about it really so right and I mean I'm prepared

and that's why I do what I do in terms of my show. It's very Catholic focused. Very religion focused. Like we're, we're going back to the catacombs, man. Like that's, that's,

that's what's happening. Yeah. And, you know, worse way too, because it's one thing for like, you know, pagan Rome in the year 200,

right? Uh-huh. Was a bad place. But like Romans had, of virtues that they honored just because they had to in order to survive in the world. You had to be brave. I thought it was their, I thought it was their paganism that made them brave and,

and all that. That's what I keep hearing. That's just what made them gay. That's what I keep hearing on Twitter. Well, yeah, yeah, well, Twitter theologians are notoriously unreliable, but like, right, you know, say what you will about the Vikings, right? but, you know, courage was the first of the nine virtues that the Vikings went out.

Like, yeah, they might have been, like, horrible, like, slavers and rapists and murderers and stuff. But, but they had virtues.

Like, you have to, you know, like, hey, let's get this little tiny boat and then go across and we're sea. You know,

one of, one of the objections is, there was never a Viking Pope. So I could tolerate it, right? But we're getting some modern Viking. We're getting some modern Viking. So we're getting very close.

Yeah. Well, But the problem is, is that in those societies, whatever they might have had before they became Christian, to have once been a Christian society and decisively rejected Christ makes you so much worse as a society than a society that never like, like had, had never had it and just kind of lived. Because you, you naturally had virtues just to have to survive, right? You had to be thrifty. You had to be, you know, you had to be brave. You had to fight.

You had to do all these other things just to survive. And the problem we have now, right, is that, you know, in this post increasingly post-Christian hostile society that, you know, hates Christianity. There's a lot of people who are kind of dumb. And they have this idea that like Christianity is the thing stopping people from living this, you know, luxury space communism. And they're perfectly happy, you know, like if we just kill all the Christians, everything will be better. And they genuinely believe that. And they're not shy about seeking state power to do things like that.

And the problem that is going to result in that is a lot of people are going to double down this or thing. It's going to get worse. You know, the Christian society, the guy that you know, it's your office who's a solid guy and he shows up to work and he does a good job, you know, who's 35, he probably goes, you know, more often than not that guy goes to church and as you as you destroy the functioning parts of society things don't get better if like no one gets married and kids are just kind of raised by however right right turning turn all of america into the ghetto is not a recipe for success where marriages

just don't really happen and, you know, relationships are very tenuous and don't last, right? You know, kids need a dad all their lives and this notion that you're going to live in a society that functions well, you know, in a post-Christian environment is just, it's just not true. And thankfully, I mean, thanks to the shows like this and, you know, just the chaos the last few years more and more people are realizing that and why so many young men are like returning to church and finding and being strident so so that's good but in the meantime right just don't don't count any institutional help yeah when when you talk about the catacombs that the online catacombs are really where a lot of this tradition is being kept and propitiated I mean, discords and DM channels and telegrams. We really are in the catacombs when you put it like that. Right.

I mean, like, I can't. I should be able to walk up to my pastor or my bishop and be like, hello, I'm DE world famous, you know, intellectual. I can say that because I have like a fan in Australia and a fan in England. So, right, like, I got a buddy in South Africa. So like, you know, I'm, it's global. Right, yeah, so I'm global. But, like, no, like how many, how many, you know, people who actually know what's going on in the world are frozen out of a structure of authority because, you know, it's bird.

Like, I know you as bird. I respect you as bird. You can't go to your pastor, be like, hi, I'm bird from timeline earth. Then you need to sit down and listen to me, right? That should happen. But it doesn't. I have a pretty based pastor. The problem is that he's Cuban.

Otherwise, it's fine. I'm telling you, man. I told Berdo this before you got on. The two most based priests I've met since I've been here, well, except for the one that does the LTM that I go to. For both Indians. They're both from India. And they're like old school.

They act like old school. they act like old school Irish priests, like short, like, they'll look at you like you're an idiot if you say something, you say something stupid. And if you get into confession and you confess something that, I mean, they'll, it's not like, oh, just do this, you're going to get a lecture. What happened to that? Yeah. Why can't we have, why can't we have someone in the, like, we can't we have someone who was born in the West?

I really do think of, there's a global sorting that really needs to be, at least in the, let me talk in the terms of the United States, not to confuse the issue, but in the United States, there really needs to be a sorting, more intentional choices on certain communities where there are these more traditional Catholic structures. I really, DE, I don't, I mean, I think I'm fairly sure on your opinion. Mine, at least, is, I do think, you can get a good priest. And I think you can get a good bishop. And it's, I don't know how dark the near future is. At least what level of hope can one hold that just by the nature of so many young American priests, people are entering the priesthood, not just the religion itself, but the priesthood. they do hold more conservative views, do they not? I mean, at least as a stepping stone, at least as this kind of a stepping stone. They do, but like how many of them have said anything, right?

Like, this is the, sure, yeah. The problem is that they get institutional capture. And you would have thought, and I've been, I don't know how long you've been Catholic or if you left the church and came back or whatever, but I've been in the trenches for 30 years. And there were a bunch of people who were like around Benedict and jump all the second's time, who were like, we're, you know, we're going to take it back and everything that's going to get better. Well, 12 years of Francis shows you that there's a lot of people who just want, you know, there's a lot of people who just want the promotion and just want, you know, like they'll go from, you know, look at Schoenborn, right? Like, you know, went from writing in 1994 catechism to being like, female deacons are great.

What? You're right. Like, so, you know, and a lot of people get, you know, removed from seminary for being too based and a lot. And you just can't count on, like an institution that's fundamentally not set up correctly or in the hands of enemies, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. As a lot of these are. You can't count on it.

Like, I'm sorry, I can't count on CNN. Why? There might be some cool people with CNN. Probably are. But, like, do you trust CNN's reporting? Can you count on them? No. Yeah.

Of course not. Right. Because they don't have any. Right. Right? Which is why, you know, timeline earth is the number one news source for the entire nation is that. True. When you can count on us and you can count on us. Right. Exactly. You know, but that's, but that's the nature of the beast that we're dealing with is like you might have the.

Oh, I agree. And people need to deal. People just need to know what time it is. Yeah, I totally agree. No, I totally agree with that. Absolutely. There has to be a recognition of the kind of situation the American Catholic is going to be in. and that a lot of the people who are going around are very nominal in their Catholicism, and that really is not. You can't, you just can't. I agree.

You just can't count on that. Yeah. Well, I mean, anyone who, if you've gone to a Protestant church for any period of time, time, it's the same thing. Most of those people are nominally Christian, too. Oh, yeah, this is a problem. That's this. Yeah.

I think anyone who's honest, who isn't attending a former IHOP current church, anybody who's honest can reflect on the fact that their church, their congregation is declining. And that the doctrinal solidity has really slipped over the years. And all of the churches, I mean, it's only over the past 30 to 40 years that homosexuality has run its way. through all of the high churches. I mean, all of them. This is a fairly new. So I do. I think it's very difficult to take anybody seriously who's saying, well, my church hasn't experienced a major decline. I just don't, you know, it seems like this is a global problem, not just a Catholic problem. Oh, it's a problem everywhere with everything. You know, I mean, I know you're a friend of Pete's in heaven for a time. I've listened to you.

Mine probably a dozen shows on here. You know, it goes, it's a political problem. It's a social problem. It's a religious problem. It's a society-wide problem and everything. And this is one of those things that, you know, like the pernicious doctrines of Americanism, right? Like, there is no separation of church and state. There's no such thing as a secular society, right? Yeah. Every society has a religion.

Just, you know, go to the middle of town square, drop a hard R and see what people say. It's the same thing as if you, you know, blasphemed in Puritan New England in, you know, 1645. You know, Americanism being so prolific in the United States in its many forms, even to the point where it's Americanists who don't actually agree politics. on very much. There's just so many expressions of it. It does make you wonder, is the treatment in the United States, which seems to be kind of to just avert the eyes and let things go their course? It's interesting how that's occurring while at the same time the treatment of Germany is the way that it is. It's very capitulatory willingness to allow to go along. Meanwhile, in our country, you have bishops who are being yanked out of their chairs. It's just, it's very

unusual the treatment of one versus the other well that's because Germany is under occupation right like if the Germans start getting too strappy certain people and you know USAID or you know let's not kid ourselves also the CIA has you know the CIA and in 1947 or so someone realized that wait a minute the Vatican has one of the best um until intelligence networks in the world. You know, and someone quickly goes, oh. It's so based. I wish that it worked for our needs because that's so awesome.

I just wish that it worked for our needs. It sucks. There's such a huge apparatus there. Yeah, well, it's something that we've, something that we've talked about is, you know, the left patronage networks are just a default. Our patronage net, we don't have patronage networks. we have canceling networks where you know if you if you say something to right wing quote

unquote to right wing oh you get canceled by um the quote unquote right wing so yeah yeah don't be woke yeah james lindsay is taken seriously by people meanwhile like piquin urniz has to ask for money speaking of which you know if you've been beyond the wall slash support like kick him some bucks kick him so many bucks he can afford to pay me and bird That's how much money you should kick Pete. And go to the Timeline Earth Patreon. I'm a Patreon supporter of Timeline Earth. And it's not because I've known Bird.

Bird's probably the first person who actually knew my real name of anybody when I started podcasting. Imagine my shock. Yeah. He's like, what the hell is that last name? What is that? But, yeah, I. I'm a Patreon supporter because I think Timeline Earth is like the funniest, the funniest show that, you know, goes live every Wednesday. See, I'm even up on the Facebook.

Except this Wednesday, where we did shows not to go live in rejection of our audience's expectations. Yes, true. Wow. But that doesn't mean that we can't catch the audience. Can't catch the replay, which you should do. And you should go to, you know, Timeline Earth and subscribe to the RSS feed as I do. And, and, uh, and give it a good review. And, and, you know, okay, tongue firmly in cheek, whatever.

But like, this is why they win. This is why someone like Crystal, Cardin off Crystal Sean Bourne can go from being someone who, you know, was the guy who was trusted to edit the 94 catechism to a guy who supports female deacons. Because the patronage network steered him that way for the last three years. Yeah. And there is no, there is no right wing patronage network. There is no, you know, the right wing seminarians have, like, they actually. They got to go get jobs in McDonald's to pay off their student loans. Whereas, you know, the guy who's like, hey, I'm a friend of Bill of Dodds and I want to get into seminary to like ruin things.

Like someone will show up with their money. Like, hey, you know, like, like, and, you know, the St. Gallon Mafia is a thing. Like, it really happened. Yes, it is. They really did pay people tens of millions of dollars to do bad stuff, right? And they, the, you know, Mattel Salvini is like, like, like, face jail time because like, the Vatican, along with the Italian government, was like smuggling migrants into Europe. Right.

Yeah, he had, and he had many disputes with Zupi. I don't know if you recall the many disputes you've had. Right. Oh, man. What is that one dispute that they had? I had to write it down because I found it such a timeline earth kind of subject. Oh, they had a... Here, let me see if I can find it.

It's worth recanting. So, Mateo Salvini has a... Yeah, like you said, there was a public war of words and then, I don't know, did you ever hear about the tortellino of the welcome? No, please elaborate. So, they were hosting the Feast of St. Petronus, which they do every year. And this time they wanted to welcome Muslims in to eat alongside them. The traditional tortellino that they would make for it had pork. and instead they build

and created and build a tortellino of the welcome which had chicken in it so that the Muslims could enjoy the feast of St. Petronius right next to the Catholics and Salvini was mocking it in the news and it was just a big thing

and I read that and I crinched so hard I just can't this kind of stuff is so unnecessary and gross. What those people now understand is that was it Zupi that did it? Yeah, Zupi. Right.

Those people have now accepted that in their minds and in a very real way, right, that Zupi has accepted Dimi status and that the public culture of Italy should conform to them. Yes. Like, no, actually, that is not the way things should go. It's like the land acknowledgement crap in Australia or the United States where like, we are on unseated Navajo land. Like, no, the Navajo seated this when they got their ass kicked in the war. I thought the German land acknowledgments were very funny.

If you saw those going around recently. I'm not on Twitter, so I don't see a lot of stuff. The Germans were land acknowledging, and they were just naming all of the tribes of people who became the German race. That's pretty awesome. It actually was. It was an unexpectedly based German moment. good for them but like okay so

eminence if being Italian means if being Muslim and rejecting mortadella and rejecting and rejecting

chorizo and rejecting all of these foods that are what everyone thinks of when they think of Italian right because they're all pork they're all pork sausage It's all pork Right yeah If that's if that's just as okay as being Italian What's the fucking point of being Italian? What's the point?

And what's the point of becoming Catholic? Right. What's the point of being Catholic? Like didn't didn't the Normans fight like a 200 year war to keep to get the Muslims out of Sicily? Like wasn't that a thing? You know, Thank you.

Thank you, Sir Roger for saving Calabria. kind of well I mean he did his best was it was it saving it for Kristen number saving it for the tank you know the how it bills

I you know 50 50 but that's a separate discussion and for those of you interested to totally check out check out the Norman Century's podcast it's about 10 years old hell yeah really really cool but no like if

if it's okay to do chicken tortellini instead of like then why why celebrate same james matamoros in spain what why you know why do all of these things how many righters were there you know who were marty by the turks how many people died in defensive creak what's the point of lepanto if like right if if we could just if you if you if you if your if your culture insists on uh the inclusiveness of changing an essential food so that another completely different group can join into it you don't you don't have a culture at least in that one instance you have no culture anymore you now have a global culture that's what that is you just

sell your own culture down the river right yeah and not only you sold your own culture down the river but but you've totally destroyed any rationale someone might have for adopting your culture right like um vacant double cheeseburgers are fact the the the proof that Christianity is a one true faith because Muslims can't eat the beef. True. Jews can't eat cheeseburgers. Hindus. Hindus can't eat, yeah, right?

Like, it is proof that America and Christianity are perfect and good because baking devil cheeseburgers are awesome. And if you don't eat them, there's something wrong with you. True. Right? With beer. Truth nook. Right?

Because, you know, Muslims won't drink the beer. The Mormons want to drink the beer. Like, obviously. obviously these things are better and you should you should give up whatever your heathen ways are that prevent you from eating and enjoying baking double cheeseburgers you should think really long and hard about the fact that like you're denied them by your whatever ridiculous religion you're part of whether it's Judaism or or Islam or Mormonism or Hinduism or whatever and understand that like you are depriving yourself of one of the true goods of the universe and in not having bacon double cheeseburgers and Right. That's what a civilization that believes in itself. And then you should go back to your own country. Yes. And bring the gospel. Yes. After you become. Yeah. Exactly. And you still have to go back.

And we want you to go back and we want you to make the place you came from good and better. Right. By becoming Catholic and evangelizing both the gospel of Jesus Christ and raising your own IQs. Raise your IQs would be great. Yes. So we can entrust you with more things. That would be great. Yeah. Wonderful. Yeah.

That's exactly right. There you go. I'll type that up. I'll send it to the Pope's office. I'll type that up there and maybe they'll effectuate some of that. That would be fantastic. I wish you, I wish you many successes. But that's the sort of thing, right?

And just one last thing before we go. Sure, no problem. It's that. Um, that's why, I mean, shows like Timeline Earth or Pete show or my show. That's why we're not allowed on TV. So support us, please. Yeah. You know, that's, that's why.

And because we have the self-confidence to say that baking double cheese burgers are better than not. And so you should eat them and believe in Jesus. In your own country. Eat them in your own contrary. Yes. We'll bring, in fact, we'll ship them to you. Yes. All right.

Burdo, tell people where they can, where they can support. Timeline Earth, go over to Patreon. There was no natural, I had no natural kind of segue there. You know what? That's fine. That's fine. Yeah, timeline, Earth, go over to the Patreon. Every Sunday, a new episode of Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon.

Pause presents Bill Cooper's Mystery Babylon comes out where we track the most extensive, greatest conspiracy theory of all that, ancient Babylonian mystery religions have infected every element of modern institutional power and what they are steering us towards. And after an episode like today, I'm sure a lot of people are going to want to listen to more of that. So yeah, go over to the timeline of Earth Patreon. Well, maybe a lot will be reminded. What the hell was the name of that book that claimed that like the whole Catholic church came out of Babylon? That was, what was that buff? You know the one I'm talking about?

I have to like it in my notes, but yeah, there's a bunch of them. But yes. Yeah. Yeah, they love doing that. And I would say for people who have a lot of questions, even about Christianity itself, go listen to Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson, talk about just exactly how Greek Jerusalem was at the time of Jesus. Yeah. The Dachopolis, right?

Like, that's where Jesus was from. It's like, Jesus. Yeah. All right, I got a D. Well, I can be found once a month on Thoughtgramson, Nick, right here on the peeking internet show. I can be found elsewhere on my telegram channel and my own show,

a fundamental principle, which is mostly religious-focused. But please take a look at that if you're so inclined. And like I said, please, please, please, I know I say this all the time. please support the people that don't lie to you, which, you know, five bucks might as seem like a lot to you, but, but it's a lot to us. So, you know, kick some, kick a couple bucks in a pizza, Pete's guitar case. I think he does a pretty good job singing for everybody.

So thank you very much for having me again, sir. Of course. All right, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you.