The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1232: What is America, and Who is it? w/ Joel Webbon

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

83 MinutesPG-13Pastor Joel Webbon is the President and Founder of Right Response Ministries and the Senior Pastor of Covenant Bible ChurchJoel joins Pete to talk about the nation's founding, progress, and future.Right Response Ministries and PodcastJoel on Twitter/XPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Joel Webbin's with me. How are you doing, Joel? I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, Pete. Yeah, well, this seems. like deja vu, but tell everybody a little bit about yourself. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So my name's Joel Webin. I am happily married and coming up on 10 years this July. We have six children, one in glory. Miscarriage was our very first, and then after that, by God's grace, we've had five healthy kids,

only one boy, four girls that I adore. One boy, a lot of pressure on him, keep the family. name alive. And we live in central Texas. We're about 45 minutes an hour north of Austin, close enough to have some economic opportunity, far enough away to have the police, hopefully not defunded. Williamson County, Georgetown, Texas, fairly moderate, slightly, you know, maybe leaning conservative. And so we're happy and content with the local politics. It's better than most places in the country. I pastor a local church there, covenant Bible church. People can check it out. Covenantbibble.org. Church was not available with a domain name. So covenantbival.org. If you're in central Texas, we'd love to have you. Join us on the Lord's Day.

I am a Protestant. That gets harder to say every single day. I feel just a little gayer. Every time I have to tell people I'm a Protestant. That said, I am not fluctuating. I'm not having second thoughts in terms of my theological convictions. So I am a Protestant for better or worse and believe the theological tenets just as much as I ever did. When I say it gets harder to say each day, I'm more so referencing the fact that just so many other Protestants are effeminate and limp-rested and weak and even if they're maybe not, you know, libs, they are libs, but even if they weren't hypothetically libs when it comes to their cultural, and political and theological positions, still just in terms of the order of

service when you think of their liturgy. So for us, yes, we're Protestant, but we're liturgical. We have a prayer of ascent, and we have, you know, we say the Apostles' Creed every single week, you know, in a confession, liturgical confession of sin and assurance of pardon, and there's moments where you stand and moments where you sit. So it's funny, you know, because I have Catholics who will come and visit the church and who are friendly and encouraging. Like, man, we, you know, we felt at home. It wasn't, you know, the laser light show and the smoke machine. and Pastor Susan, you know, getting up and preaching a sermon and her boss babe pantsuit. So anyways, that's that.

Last thing, I'm also have started a online kind of ministry outside of the local church that I pastor that's called Right Response Ministries. And we, you know, we livestream and do cultural and political analysis. But as we do it unapologetically and boldly as Christians. and so people probably have seen me online, whether it's on X or YouTube. So you can go to YouTube, look up, write response ministries, and subscribe and check it out on YouTube, or you can follow us on X. The handle is at Right ResponseM.

Ministry would not fit at Right Response M and follow us on X. All of our videos are on both YouTube and X, so you can watch stuff, and then you also get my spicy little tweets from, you know, 3 a.m. when I say something that's hopefully good, and something. sometimes stupid. So that's it. Yeah, I like that area. I have friends in Round Rock. I was in Cedar Park recently. Oh, wow. It's a really good part of, I like that part of the country. I've, I always feel, yeah, I always feel like when I go to Texas that I'm in another country. Like there's, I mean, you still have the lib tardiness and, you know, but it does feel like you're in another country, even when you're in areas that are, you know, that you wish were a little more quote,

unquote, right wing. Right. Yeah, no. Yeah, it feels, it feels like America. Uh, worst part about Texas is, well, one, our governor, I mean, obviously he's, he's, you know, better than a ton of governors. Uh, but he's, you know, he just refuses Pete to, uh, to really stand up as, as a leader, you know, it's like he's all.

Oh, you, you went for the, you went for the, you went for the, you. easy joke. I know, I know, I know. That's not his fault that he physically can't stand up, but morally he could. And a lot of times, honestly, like the best of Greg Abbott is just him whenever he, you know, follows suit with someone like Ron DeSantis. But he rarely leads. But he is, of course, better than, you know, many other liberal governors. So that's not great, but it's also not terrible. But then the worst things, we're just, we're a border state, you know, so there's a ton of immigration. There's a lot of, you know, we have a lot of Hispanics that have been here for three, four, five generations. And that's different. I've got a lot of Hispanics in my church who are

salt of the earth, precious, brothers and sisters in Christ who have fully assimilated and have been assimilated for generations. Some of them on principle won't even teach their kids Spanish, which is, I'm not even saying I support that. I think that was my, that was my dad. That was my dad. That's He was like, we're American, you know. And so anyway, so that group, which is a large group in Texas, is not what I'm talking about. They're great. But as you know, there's a ton of other people who showed up 15 minutes ago in border states like Texas, and that's a problem. Well, let me ask you this. You already mentioned liberals. So, I mean, I guess this is a debate among some, do you think that the founding of this country was distinctly liberal, classical liberal,

or if you don't think the founding was, do you think that the pathway was paved so that it would go in that direction? Yes, the latter. So I think that we were a distinctly Christian country, and especially because America doesn't just start in 1776. So I'm old-school. I'm old-school. I'm going to look back and look at the 1600s, you know, in early 1700s. And think of the 13 colonies, every single one of them had a state church. They were all Protestant except from one, I think was Rhode Island. It was Catholic, distinctly Christian. The founders, they were all Christian.

Yeah, you've got a few deists, you know, you've got Thomas Jefferson. But for the most part, you know, from George Washington, who by today's standards in all the best ways, not the worst ways, would be evangelical in my assessment. you've got, you know, John Adams, you've got Andrew Jackson, you know, all these different guys. So I think it was Christian, but I do think this is what's so important for people to understand, especially Christians. We, God is immutable, right? Unchanging, behold, I am the Lord, it changes not, so that you, the sons of Jacob will not be consumed, the same yesterday, today, and forever. So because truth, God's truth, ascendant, transcendent truth, is immutable, because God himself is immutable. There are timeless principles. And then corresponding by way of constant,

off of what is timelessly true. There are things that are timelessly false, so there are timeless enemies of the church and enemies of God and enemies of the truth. But there are also, and this is what I wish people could get, there are also timely enemies. And it's so important for us to realize that nobody is ever doing anything, whether you're starting a country or writing the Declaration of Independence or whatever it is. Nobody ever does anything in a vacuum. We're all working out of God's providence, time and place. So when you look at the founders, you know, when you look at the founders, you have to think, who's the Leviathan of their day?

What is it that they're fighting against? What is it that they were fleeing from, you know, even before the founders, getting back, like I said, 13 colonies and, you know, some of the Puritans and the pilgrims and the Covenanters and their enemy of their day, you know, they're looking at Rome. They're looking at that bishop of Rome who exalteth himself above God. And obviously there's a debate to be had, but I think even, you know, my Catholic friends would say, yeah, not the best moment of the Catholic Church. And yeah, there were problems here.

And then even, you know, Protestant, like Anglican, you know, in England, still overstepping his bounds and making pastors read from the sports almanac. You know, here's the score from the latest, you know, sports. sports ball game, you know, on the Lord's Day, in their church service just to take them off, just knowing that it would upset. So for them, there's timeless enemies, yes, because there's timeless truth, but there's also timely battles, timely fights, right? The sons of Isacar, they knew the times and what Israel ought to do. So when I look at the founding of America, they're dealing with religious tyranny. And so then what are they baking in, right? So were they

liberals? I don't think so. But what they were baking in and terms of provisions and the founding documents and the way that they were setting up the country is they were looking to hedge their bets against the predominant enemy of their day, which was not liberalism. That wasn't the Leviathan of their day. The Leviathan was religious totalitarianism. And so they're trying to protect against that. None of them were thinking, you know what, we're going to put this into the Constitution, the First Amendment, because we dream of a day when a bunch of people who worship sand demons would start their own colonies, Epic City, in the state of Texas.

That is not what they were thinking. They couldn't even conceive of the problems that we're dealing with now. They were dealing with their timely enemies. And I think that part of what's true, if we actually want to be true, people are like, well, we need to go back to 1776. We need to go back and be true to the founders. You want to be true to the founders. I think part of being true to the founders is being flexible, knowing the times, exercising

discernment and being able to pivot and say what the founders were doing is they were saying, this is the most pressing threat of our moment, and we're going to fight against it. You want to be true to the founders? Then do that same thing in your day and be able to say, okay, yeah, the Roman Catholic Church, despite my theological disagreements, that is not the reigning Leviathan of the day. The Pope is not the biggest problem in the world in the country that I live in today. I really think like John Calvin and Martin Luther, if they were to resurrect and materialize in my living room, you know, and God brought them back from the dead to help us, you know, fight off the hordes of hell.

And it's my job to debrief them and catch them up for the last 500 years, what's going on. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, this is the Reformation continues. who's Semper Reformonda, you know, and that Bishop of Rome's, and he's still, you know, he's still a problem, blah, blah, blah. And also this is happening in the culture and politics. I think they would literally listen to all my reformation, you know, um, uh, soapbox speech. And then they look at me and they say, okay, yeah, yeah, but tell me more about these fags. You know, like they would, they would be like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we fought for the reformation. And yes, you know, we, we were no friends of the Pope. Um, but it sounds like what's going on

your day, that's not the biggest problem. So all that to answer your question, no, I don't think they were liberals. I do think that they systematically carved out what eventually became the seedbed opened the door, cracked the door for liberalism. That seems undeniable. I love the founders. You know, it's one of the rare founder, ELs, but I have to acknowledge it. I think it was an L, but I'm sympathetic because I see what they were doing. I think it's our fault for enshrining everything that the founders did as though this is for all times and all places, right, that this is a universal, that it's timeless. No, they were doing something that was, uh, that they wanted to have longevity, yes, but they also, they were doing something that was

timely, not timeless, but timely, they were assessing the threats of their day, the enemies of their day and hedging against them. Those are not the biggest threats and enemies of our day. And if you want to be true to the founders, then I think you need to embrace not the letter of the law at the expense of the spirit of the law, but embrace the actual spirit of the law itself. And you see this even with George Washington, you know, that seized private property and pointed a cannon, you know, at this home and saying, you're getting the way. And I'm sorry, like, he was, he was going to take, do whatever it took to win, whatever it took to win. He was not going to allow scrupulous, hall monitor, a letter of the law keeping,

stop him from spirit of the law keeping to actually beat back the hordes of hell in his day. That, to me, is quintessential America. That's what it is. To keep in step with the founders, that's what we've got to do today. And that doesn't mean taking it all and throwing it away. I still love the Constitution. Some of the latter amendments, maybe not a good idea. But I still love the Constitution.

I love our founding. I love George Washington. I just want to have the freedom. and I don't want limitless freedom, but the reasonable freedom with some safeguards to actually be like George Washington and make the decisions for our country

that he made in his time. Does that make sense? Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28th to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs,

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So when a country, like this country, got off the ground was prosperous right away. It's kind of hard not to be prosperous with the resources we had here, not only natural but human. Yep, yep. Do you think that there comes a time when you become successful and you forget that spiritual warfare is a thing? Absolutely, yeah.

I mean, I think it was cotton matter or increased mother, his father, both brutal Americans, great America, but who said that it was faithfulness gave birth to prosperity, blessing. The daughter of the mother, faithfulness, was blessing, prosperity, and then the daughter devoured the mother. And so, yeah, absolutely. Or you could say it the other way, you know, the old badage, you know, hard times, you know, make good men, good men, make good times, good times, make soft men or, you know, bad men and bad men, you know, create bad times. So absolutely, yeah. When you study history, you come to a point, especially if you study the last 500 years, where you see that Christians abandoned, abandoned their values, especially when it

come when it came to finance and economics. They were against, they were against usury. And as sinful men will do, they say, well, we may not be able to practice usury. But there are these, there's this group over here that we can import. And yeah, I mean,

it just seems to me that what we haven't, if you call yourself a Christian and you still want to say, well, this is a Christian country, importing, having populations of people here who are literally antichrist, it's probably not the best idea. No. So that's something I've thought a lot about. And so I'll start with this disclaimer because I think it's fair and true. In some sense, in a measured sense, but in some sense, I am sympathetic to that particular

the group of people, the tiny hat people, because they, you know, it's like a lot of nations, including America, did not want them, you know, working on the farm or, you know, setting up a blacksmith, you know, shop or something like that and being, you know, integrated fully into their society. They were ostracized and kind of held at arm's length. And so they got into certain things that our own people wouldn't do, like exacting usury and those. And so, but they were allowed to do it themselves. And so they kind of, of stood on the fringes, on the outside looking in, and set up banks, you know, and doing things that we wouldn't allow our own people to do, you know, handing out loans with this

much interest. And so, in some ways, like, we bear some responsibility for carving out the provision that kind of created that problem. On the other hand, it is a problem. It's a big problem. And if it was a problem in their day, it's exponentially problematic in our day. And yeah, so for me, I'm a Christian nationalist. I know some people don't like the label. And that's totally fine. You don't have to adopt the label. I understand that there are certain problems with it. But I am a nationalist, and I am a Christian. What kind of nationalism do you want? I don't want Islamic nationalism. I don't want Jewish nationalism. I don't want atheistic, secular nationalism. I want Christian nationalism. So as a Christian and holding to, you know, Christian values,

I don't want to mistreat any group of people. I don't want to be unjust. I don't want to be inhumane any of that. But I do want to deal with what I believe, according to the scripture, is sin and also crime, right? So two separate categories, Venn diagram. There is overlap, but not complete overlap. Not all sins are crimes, and not all crimes are sins. So like coveting, right? That's the 10th commandment. It's a sin, right? Now shall not covet. But I don't want the coveting police. I don't want to treat coveting as a crime. So it's like, well, then when does the state punish covenant? Well, that's easy. The state actually punishes coveting as a crime when coveting is unchecked in the realm of the heart to the point that it flows over into

theft. Thou shalt not steal or murder. Thou shalt not kill, right? And that's when coveting is no longer merely a sin internally before God, but it becomes a crime against some. society and merits a civil punishment. And so that said, yeah, I want to ban usury. And I understand that you do some of these things overnight and economy tanks and spirals into oblivion. But when I say usury, I would not day one say, nobody can charge any interest. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is I would start, right? You start at the end, not in the middle. And so what I would start with is loan sharks and, you know, establishments that, you know, where you can get your paycheck two weeks early within advance, you know, on 25% interest that exploits and completely

decimates the poorest of the poor or credit card interest, you know, that's, again, 16%, 20%, 30% interest rates, or universities, you know, that are charging, you know, 35, 40, 50,000, dollars, an annual tuition, and using as their justification that the government will give you this much loans. And so we're going to charge this price. But then offering degrees that are worthless and people can never pay it back. So I'm not, you know, I would not day one say, you know what, no loans for houses. And no, that's insane. I think the interest rates are high. But if somebody, you know, if we can get back lower and I don't know if we can, but if we can get back lower and you got a three, four percent interest rate on a home that's reasonably

priced so that you can have a mortgage and own a home today without having, you know, $400,000 saved up in cash. I don't think that that's our biggest problem. But I do think that there are many other, when you are financing a burrito, what you can do now, that's a problem. So anyway, so not going after a particular people, but going after the sins. So ban pornography, ban abortion, ban usury, no dual citizenship for anyone holding public office, ideally even for citizens, but especially for our civil officers. So if you just did those things, no dual citizenship for any public office, no pornography, no exorbitant forms of usury, especially that target and exploit the poor, then guess what? You're going to have some Jews in

America that are great. Stephen Miller will still be here. God bless them. And you're going to have a bunch of Jews disproportionately. Disproportionately. That's true. You can't deny it. I'm an expert noticer, as many others are. But they're going to self-humanely self-deport. And it wouldn't have been because we targeted them as a people, but we targeted sins that should be also labeled as crimes. It's completely fair. It's completely just. It honors God. And if one particular group is disproportionately affected and chooses to humanely deport themselves, praise God. No harm, no foul. That's just. Let's do it. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands

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Trump on Dunbiog, Kush Farage. I think the biggest problem with that is it all sounds logical. when you have a historical context, when you haven't been brainwashed by, you know, the last 80 years, what, you know, what's commonly called the post-war consensus. Yeah. And you had Shelley v. Kramer, you had Brown versus Board of Education, and then you finished off with the Civil Rights Act. And freedom of association just doesn't exist anymore. And people practice freedom of association in their personal.

lives all the time. Even the worst libtard, you know, progressive scumbag, they practice, they want to practice it with us. They don't want to be anywhere near us. They practice it. Yeah, the thing they decry and demonize, they practice with their own children. You look at all these libs, they lived in gated communities, is white as the driven snow, and their kids go to little cluster pod, you know, schools with private, you know, only eight in a group with private tutors that they pay $200,000 to and all the eight students are white. And meanwhile, they're yelling, racist. They do it. You're right.

You're right. I agree. Go ahead. Yeah, they live, you know, I think it was, I think as Z-Man says that they, liberals live like they. accuse white supremacists of living in the in the most lily white communities working in industries that are predominantly white and yeah yeah but yeah how do we we can't do this we can't have you can't have a country you can't have a polity unless you can't exclude certain people from it and i mean just how do we get past that now it just it seems that it's an impossibility

I mean, you have people who are out there decrying DEI, things like that, who once you mention, well, I mean, the Civil Rights Act is the last boss of this whole thing. I mean, that has to be getting rid of. And then they immediately shrink back. Like the, they shrink back like the Civil Rights Act actually did something other than create like the Community Relations Service, which whenever, whenever violent blacks murder whites, they go in there and shut them up and make them say certain things in front of the press. They threaten them. Or if a white, you know, if, well, George Zimmerman, if we want to call him white, he's non-black. Let's put it that way.

When he murders a black kid, they go up there and they turn the flame up and they inflame everything. And that's part of the Civil Rights Act. And it's like, oh, well, we just need to defund that. Well, yeah, the next time a shit lib gets in there, they're just going to refund it. So we're basically at the point now that unless you literally start destroying things, the next time they get in power, they're just going to be seeking to literally destroy us. Yes. Yeah, it's a daunting task.

It's hard. Praise God for saving me and giving me faith in Jesus. Otherwise, I would just be ODIN on black pills every day, 24 hours. It's hard. It's hard not to despair. And you're right. Because it's way easier to say no up front than to say yes and then take something away later on. But freedom of association, you're absolutely right.

That's a big deal. That should have never been treated as legislation and law and as a crime. Right now, just to put in perspective for the listener, because some would be like, what? You know, like, that's crazy. That's racist. Look, you can't even have an all-male gym. we need all male spaces and we need, you know, a conservative, you know, allegedly, I'm doing quotation marks, you know, allegedly conservative women to stop destroying male spaces. I mean,

it's such a hypocrisy and irony to say, I want to protect the women's bathroom, but I destroyed this male space and bragging about it, you know, and because I shattered, you know, the glass ceiling, you know, for women. That's such, such an irony. name. And so, yeah, we should be able to, I should be able to go and work out without having to have, you know, a thousand dollars to purchase a home gym and, and also be able to go and work out without being assaulted by temptation with a bunch of women wearing, you know, painted on leggings and a sports brawl. That is absolutely insane. So when we talk about freedom of association, the Civil Rights Act and its effects.

It's absolutely insane that people, as private citizens and private businesses, we're not talking about the government, that they would not be able to say, you know, the Boy Scouts is for boys. This is an all-male gym. So when we talk about liberalism, I'll say this and I'll throw it back to you and see what you think. I think the final boss is liberalism. And liberalism is like the car. engine is egalitarianism. If you think what's the heart of liberalism, especially as the latter expressions, 20th century liberalism, the heart is egalitarianism. What people need to recognize

with egalitarianism is, you know, for me, my, you know, pastoral, you know, church context, you know, and, you know, most of the churches I associate with are theologically conservative. So when they hear egalitarianism, it's truncated, that all they hear is a narrow egalitarianism. not egalitarian because we don't have female pastors. And I'm like, bro, egalitarianism, that's good, praise God. But egalitarianism is way more than that. Egalitarianism asserted that Johnny and Jackie are exactly the same. And we need to rail against that. That's false. But egalitarianism goes further. It doesn't just say Johnny and Jackie are the same. It also says Johnny and Jimmy are the say. Here's the deal. I have four daughters and one son. We believe in classical Christian education.

That said, I'll get flak for this, but my daughters don't need to read Plutarch. They don't. Are my daughters going to learn how to read? Of course. Are they going to be good with science? And of course, because they're going to be wives one day. And I want them, like Eve was, to Adam, to be a suitable, competent, help meet for their husbands that are like the Proverbs 31 women who are wise and insightful. I don't want my daughters to be retarded. And so we are teaching them. That said, my daughters are not going to be statesmen. My daughters are not going to be in Congress. I think that that's an abomination. That's one of the judgments in Isaiah that women and children would rule over you. So I'm not going to be training my daughters to be statesmen.

I'm going to be training them to be godly wives and godly mothers and part of motherhood, because I want my daughters to do what we're doing. I want them to homeschool. And so I want my grandchildren not to be dumb as stumps. I want them to not be illiterate. So I want my daughters to be competent, intelligent mothers who can teach my grandchildren to be intelligent. But the education, here's the point.

The education for my son is going to be tailored and different than the education for my daughter. So Johnny and Jackie are not the same. But also what I was saying, Johnny and Jimmy are not the same. Not every single boy. So even now we're getting into the male sex. We've already distinguished male and female. But even within the male sex, egalitarianism doesn't just say men and women are the same. It says every individual is the same. Think about that. Even as Christians, we'll say, well, I'm conservative. We don't have female pastors. But we have given into liberalism. and the engine that is egalitarianism, if nothing else, even just in our education. I'm a conservative Christian. Okay, what does education look like? Well, classical Christian

education. For who? Well, kindergarten all the way through 12th grade and also we'd like you to get this liberal arts degree for four years. So 17 years, for 17 years, we are going to have no customization, no, no altering, no tweaking. The same stream. line education for every boy and every girl for the first 17 years of their formative education life. Because why? Because we think they're all the same. Because we won't say it, we won't admit it, but because we're egalitarian. We are liberals. We're liberals. And so for me, it's like men and women are different. Johnny and Jackie are not the same. Johnny and Jimmy also aren't the same. Jimmy is going to be a great plumber and praise God for great plumbers. And to be frank, we're going to

teach Jimmy to be a plumber for himself, own his labor, start his own business. And Jimmy, you know, Johnny's going to be a statesman and Jimmy's going to make more money and help, you know, be generous towards Johnny as he's, you know, trying to change the country and make a difference. but Johnny's going to be reading certain books of antiquity that Jimmy really doesn't have to read. We're not going to say Jimmy's not allowed to read it, but Johnny and Jimmy aren't the same. And the last one, and this is where I'll get a lot of flatter. Johnny and Jackie are not the same. Johnny and Jimmy are not the same.

And Johnny and Jamal are not the same. They're not the same. And here, I'm speaking of averages. So Vodie Bakum. He's a pastor, a black man, and he is not my equal. he's not my inferior, he's my superior. The dude is smarter than me. The dude is more godly than me.

He's great. Thomas Sol. I like Thomas Soul. I like Clarence Thomas. Incredible, guys. But here's my point, and I don't just want to make it about black people because that's not fair. But my point is individuals are not the same.

Men and women are not the same. And nations, peoples, are not the same. There are distinction. and these distinctions often create disparity, especially in a world where sin has entered the equation, and disparity does not necessitate injustice. So we have to be able to understand that 59 South Africans, Afrikaners, coming to America, is not the same as 59 Haitians, much less 500,000 Haitians. There are peoples, not just individuals, but peoples, collectively, nations, ethnos that are more or less compatible with America.

So we have to be able to understand. Men and women are not the same. Individuals are not the same. And people's are not the same. And anything that makes us cringe at that statement is egalitarianism, which is the engine of liberalism. You, the listener, if you're bothered by what I said, you need to own it.

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terms apply for more invoice, he's got out of e-slash beads yeah i think that they're i've coming out of libertarianism you forget that the first the first couple letters in there and basically what the root of that word is and when you look back upon it you're like huh oh so everybody can do whatever they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else which is pretty much impossible um yeah i i remember somebody telling me what's wrong with prostitution. I'm like, well, what do you think your town is going to be like if prostitution is legal and they could be on every street corner? And take that even a step further. What is a nation like when a percentage of their young women, a high percentage of

their young women between 18 and 30 are on only fans? They're doing it privately in their house. they're not I don't rarely do they bring it out into public but it is public they make it public not only that it's the spiritual degradation of it

people have this because materialism rules the day and everyone's you know materialism is the zeitgeist as far as how people look at the world they don't understand that things that are happening behind closed doors

things that are happening in, you know, smoke-filled rooms, that these are all things that affect the people. That they, you may not be able to be, you may not be able to articulate exactly what's going on right now. But everyone has been like, oh, 10 years later down the road, you're like, oh, wait a minute, what happened? How did we get here? Well, you allowed, you allowed this to happen.

even privately. And you don't understand that that actually has an effect on the way, on how the world and how, how community and how polities function and what they're, you know, where they stand going forward if they have a, any chance of surviving. And if it's just about survival, then you just fix the money and every, you know, if you fix the money and everything's okay. Well, no, there's so much more to it, and people just don't want to accept that. I know Catholics who think like that.

I know Protestants who think like that. I know evangelicals who think like that. They just don't get it. Yep. I agree. So it's your show. You're interviewing me, but would you mind if I ask you a question? Yeah, this happens all the time.

I'm fine with that. Yeah, because I just, I haven't listened. to a lot of you, but we have mutuals and all the mutuals speak really highly of you. Do you know Ron Dodson? Didn't he go on your show a while back? Ron Dodson's been on my show a few times. We recently got to spend some face-to-face time in Tennessee together. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think highly of Ron. He's a friend. So anyway, so I'm not super familiar with you, but I'm familiar with those who are familiar with you. And so I, and they all have good things to say. So I'm, by, by, you know, default, you know, I have respect for you. And so I'm just curious what

you would say. So kind of two-part question. One is, what do you prefer? And the second part is, what do you predict? So preference and then prediction. Because what's unsustainable will not continue. That's just kind of a law of nature. What's unsustainable will not indefinitely continue. So these United States, would you prefer, and then also what do you predict between these two options, a Cromwellian kind of figure? Right? In the American context, it's probably not going to be a king. It might function, right? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but we probably won't call it a king because we're Americans, gosh darn it. But so let's say like a Cromwellian figure, whether it's, you know, the baron, Baron Trump, you know, whatever it is, or Balkanization. and the fact that our country is just too big. And not even just numerically, although, yeah, like 50 million people need to go back. And I think that's a moderate number.

But aside from numerically just, you know, population, we're just geographically, we're a massive country. And, you know, thinking of, you know, thinking of the UK and our United, I'm sorry, the EU. and it's just, you know, having countries instead of states. So, Balkanization, and, you know, California can do its thing or whatever, and we're not a part of it. Or, no, we hold together, and it's kind of a Cromwellian figure that, you know, the libs are losing their mind and like, this is terrible, this is unconstitutional. But he pulls us out of the muck and the mire and just kind of takes, like a Napoleon. Holy and type figure, you know, or Cromwellian figure. Which one do you prefer? And which one do you

predict? Well, I don't think one can work without the other. So let me explain that. Yeah, I don't see this as being black and white. I think that the original intention, the Articles of Confederation, how we were set up as Confederate States, is really the way to go forward. I don't believe that one person or one, even one unit of even the smartest people in the world can govern 300 million people. It's just too much. It's an impossibility. I agree. Yeah, too much. You can't organize that many people. You know, it's like, it's why elite theory is. So it's important, even if people don't, agree with it, elite theory is very important to understand that like 200 people, 200 people organizing can control 300 million people better than 300 million people can control 200 million people

200 people because 300 million people can't organize exactly so can i get real quick for the listener can i can i tell you how i it's super short uh how i persuade people red pillam on elite theory i always tell people um in 1959 um a bunch of housewives in america um who are watching leave it to beaver in black and white. They did not get together and say, we love the show. We really do. But you know what would really bring it over the top?

Take it from good to great. Leave it to beaver. Everything as it is. But it just needs a little bit of butt sex. And then Hollywood says, well, you know, that's not really our value. That's not our principle. But, you know, we're capitalist at the end of the day,

you know, and you've got to give the customers always right and we've got to give them what they want. That's not how, when we think, how did America get off the rails? It's not that the American people demanded from its leaders, whether those be political or cultural or media or whatever, academic, that the American people rose up and said, we want degeneracy. No, it's the reverse.

It's Hollywood. They kept pushing the line, pushing the envelope to see, how much degeneracy they could get away with. And that in a nutshell is the way I describe elite theory. What do you think? Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash northwest. Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1,500 euro and gift cards annually, completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card.

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And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig Sky Broadband, Essential TV and Netflix. Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months, our lowest ever price. Availability subject location, new customers only, 12-month minimum terms, thereafter, TV and broadband sold separately, terms apply for more invoice, East Guy, slash, Beds. No, that makes sense.

Yeah, the, um, they needed to get around the Hays code, and the only way to do that was to chip, chip away at it. there. If you have a full frontal attack on something, people are just going to notice and they're going to, well, I mean, I don't know anymore. People just don't, people are so checked out nowadays. Right. Right. Right. I don't know what it does. But they would have. Back in the day when we had a shot. Yeah. Back then, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I, really the only way I see going forward is, you know, you can't really have a community and you can't even really think about having a community unless the community, the strength, the community starts in the home.

So people who are like, man, we really need to change the world. We need to change this country. We need to change this country. We need to change the state. We need to change. Well, if your house is in an order, what are you doing? You know, get your house in order first. And then it can go further out and you can push it outwards.

But if 300 million people, if one person or one body can't govern 300 million, and people you're going to need to be able to break that down into smaller groups. And that is the goal to me is you're still going to have, you know, my friend Thomas says that he predicts that the United States can be around for another 100, 150 years. It's just going to slowly start changing. And it's go, what he predicts and what I predict is it's going to look more local and it's going to look more state, you know, more state power, more local power. or more local power.

Balkanization. Yeah. Balkanization, but not Balkanization. It doesn't have to be Balkanization where you're like, screw you. You know, we're going to take on, you know, the state of Alabama will be willing to take on China by itself if it comes to that. But there has to be a confederation. You know, that's why I've always said this.

I'm, you may hear me talk about the Constitution every once in a while. But, yeah, I honestly believe the Constitution was a coup to get us away from, for huge centralization of the states. And I honestly think the articles of Confederation were where it was at when people referred to their, you know, Virginia as their country and Massachusetts as their country instead of the, you know, the United States, you know, it was still people were still using these United States. Right. But I don't think that you have a future if, I mean, the fact that we've basically been taught that you can elect one person and that person can change things for and make 300 million people happy, well, that's retarded. And then when I say that, people are like, well, that's a straw man. I'm not saying it's for a certain group. Okay, so then you are, by saying that, you are saying we're always going to be a civil war.

We're always going to have a civil war. If you want to keep this thing the way it is, you're always going to be at war. And right-wingers are not ready for that. Right-wingers do not understand that you crush your enemies. Right-wingers look at, you know, still probably think Franco was a fascist. Or, you know, what the czars were doing, you know, in 1905, what the czar did in 1905, bringing the army home from, bringing the army home from the Russo-Japanese War

and pointing it towards the revolutionaries with three parentheses around them. Oh, well, you shouldn't do it. What do you do? How do you do this? How do you say, oh, we must remain the person, you know, the lib in California who's voting, you know,

if they ever got rid of the, the electoral college, basically you would have like New York and California deciding who's president. Texas wouldn't even matter anymore. You're not, you do not have liberty. You're not going to have freedom by electing one person. I don't care who it is because they're not going to crush their enemies. There's this theory that Napoleon and a certain Austrian painter, you know, when they spoke, they were speaking for their people.

They were channeling the spirit of their people. Well, they were, a lot of the, those two guys were channeling the spirit of a monoculture, of a people. Yeah. Not a frigging, not where you have, you have, you have, you know, Somalians in Minnesota and, you know, Mexicans in California and Cubans in Miami and Puerto Ricans in, in New York, and blacks everywhere. all trying to compete and get power, and then you have it, you know, the group that's basically

been occupying us for 100 years, well, how do you, how do, how would you elect a leader who would be able to, what spirit of the people is he going to channel? He's going to, if he's channeled the spirit of the people, he would have to be, uh, it'd be like, um, multiple, personality disorder. He'd have to be schizophrenic. He'd have to be, I'm, I'm going to be shifting in and out of channeling, you know, one personality of the country, then another. So you're absolutely right. We have to have a monoculture. And we have to.

And monoculture doesn't mean that everybody, you know, has the exact same ancestry, although that helps, you know, especially if a country, at least the majority, is of a particular stock, you know, an Anglo-Protestant stock. But I think there is a way, in our case, it would be Anglo-Prottsin, because that's the founding of our nation. But my point is there's a way of still having different peoples in terms of ancestry, but that still have all aligned with a monoculture. But we don't have that right now.

And I think it was Aristotle who talked about that republics eventually devolve into raw democracies. And then once that happens, it's basically just like a ticking time bomb. It's only a matter of time until the, the people recognize that they can, that they can balkanize, you know, and play identity politics, and all politics is really identity politics, and that they can vote for stuff, that one group can lobby and vote for another group stuff. And then the politicians, so then, you know, republics become democracies, democracies become oligarchy. So now you have certain leaders who, what they do is they simply need the votes. And so they open up the borders. You know,

borders become porous. And I don't have the vote. so I'll import the votes and beef up my numbers. And then, you know, oligarchy just devolves into tyranny. And so I think, like, to say, like, we're going to constitution even harder, you know, I view it as kind of like a circle instead of linear. I don't think he can go back, not directly. I think you have to go forward and eventually he might be able to get back. And what I mean by that is our constitutional republic that we used to have,

and, you know, a republic if you can keep it, and the verdicts just come back in, we did not keep it. But the constitutional republic that we used to have did not come out of the ether. It didn't come out of the vacuum. It's like, well, we had this awesome thing. Yeah, but we had a particular people that were capable, right, of self-governance and that were religious and moral.

And that's which, where did not where did we get the form of government, but where did we get the people who were capable of that form of government? And the answer to that is on the heels of 700 years of the Christian monarchy. So it's like, I'm all for constitutional republics if you have the people, and we currently do not have the people. And where do you get those people? Well, you get those people, to be frank, you get those people from strict rule for centuries. And I'll say one thing that's a little spicy, but I hope the listener will give me credit and understand the way that I'm using this term. Every people, every culture, especially religion, I'll say it that way, every worldview or religion, has a eugenics program.

And what I mean by that is you look at the Bible, and it's like, you marry somebody who's your sister or your cousin, your line is cut off from Israel. You marry somebody too far of relation, a foreigner who worships, you know, idols, your line is cut off from Israel. You eat too much shellfish, believe it or not, your line is cut off from Israel. And then you look at other nations. And like when you look at religion, it's funny, but religion, every single religion, including Christianity, has dietary restrictions. It's like, well, I thought it was just about culture. It's just about worship. Well, culture, cultists, worship always involves very practical and very physical, not just spiritual, but physical elements,

is dietary restrictions, which have to do with nutrition. So when I think of peoples and the way that they're shaped, none of this happens in 15 minutes, but over time, right, when you think of consecutive generations, 30, 40, over the course of 500 years, or over the course of a millennia, and you think of people having a religion, and that religion having dictates and parameters that include physical elements such as nutrients, and not just that, but the Christian ethic of sober-mindedness. right so there's not substance abuse we're not smoking piety and then worshipping you know demon gods um and then back to nutrition the difference between eating cow and cooking the cow properly with with um with uh sanitation um versus using the cow's dung to cook with uh and making the food with no sanitation

without washing your hands um and then you you bring not just nutrients and not just substance abuse versus sober-mindedness, but monogamy, for the most part, in general, monogamy versus polygamy and promiscuity. And then you bring into the equation, you know, Christians invented the sewer system and sanitation, you know, and figuring out, you know, what was the cause of the black plague, you know, and these kinds of things. And so when it comes to substance abuse and when it comes to monogamy versus promiscuity and nutrition, and then you add education on top of that and learning to be, literate and all these kinds of things from a young age, that doesn't just shape people.

It's the culture, it's the culture, it's the culture, that doesn't just shape people's behaviors and their patterns and their attitudes. Religion has a, I believe, has a biological, again, not in 15 minutes. So I'm not just saying, hey, teach someone the Christian worldview. And all of a sudden, you know, over the course of a one-year training, their biology will change. I'm not saying that. I'm not retarded by the grace of God.

But what I am saying is that religion, worship, whether it's false worship or true worship, and all the corresponding dictates that come from Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Judaism or atheism, secularism, religion, not quickly, but slowly over time, does not just shape behaviors and attitudes and culture in the sense that we use the word culture today. But over time, generations and centuries, it even has, I believe, a physical effect on people, because I believe the gospel changes everything. Let God be true in every man a liar. If truth is truth and it's God's truth, then that truth actually will shape, I'm not a Gnostic, it's not just the 17th dimension, no, I'm a historic Christian. Yes, the spiritual is of ultimate value, but the physical and the

natural, the temporal, it also matters, and it matters not just to us, but it matters to God. And so I believe that God's truth, if it is truth, will have an effect, not just spiritually and not just emotionally, not just behaviorally, but even physically and even biologically over time. And that's the impact of worship and that's the impact of true worship. And likewise, consequently, the impact of false worship will have devastating effects and even devastating physical, biological effects, again, over time, over time. So then what do you do when you take a nation like ours in a matter of not centuries but mere decades? And as we've seen recently, in just mere years, years and just the last five years, and you import in mass different peoples from all over the

planet shaped by different religions over centuries, and it not just shaping their culture or their worldview or the way that they think or their behaviors or patterns or attitudes, but even their physical person has been shaped for a millennia or two. And then you just throw them all in to the same country, the same plot of land. And then you do that, not only do you do that, but you do that with a form of government that is quickly devolved into a raw democracy with an established oligarchy, where people are well aware that they can balkanize, group up, and vote for stuff.

And then to say that through that democratic system, with that lay of the land, this mix of people that we can vote our way out and ride the ship is insane. And so I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to just get a rise out of people just to do it and be an edge lord. Obviously there are better words than eugenics and that has massive negative connotations. But I think that, I hope that you, Pete, understand my point, is that we're not Gnostics, worship whether true or false changes everything. And it doesn't do it all at once in 15 minutes, but over time, it doesn't just change hearts and spiritual things and attitudes. But it actually, religion dictates so much, even dietary restrictions, physical things, to where not in a moment, but over time, generations, it has an impact on the people, not just spiritually, but also physically.

I think that's the way God made the world. And for us not to be aware of that, to be aware that people are different, not just the way they think. It's not just, well, if I just present the facts and make good arguments, then this Haitian will become magically an American. No, that's not the world that God made. And so with that lay of the land and our current government system, you're screwed. of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. Employers. Did you know you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1,500 Euro and gift cards annually completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions.

Now's the perfect time to try Options Card. Options Card is Ireland's brand-new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCard.i.e. today. This Black Friday, game stream and go full speed with one gig, Sky broadband. And watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people killing you, John. And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix.

I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig Sky Broadband, Essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months. Our lowest ever price. Availability subject location, new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter. TV and broadband sold separately. Terms apply for more infoosies sky.com. Well, I think the allowing people to culturally integrate is, you see that in the Old Testament and the New Testament. There's always opening for being grafted in. Amen.

But it's slow. I mean, I'm not. And even with that, you think of like Ruth or Rahab. Like, Ruth does not come in with 500,000 Moabites and their idols. Ruth comes in and she, one of the ways to integrate, when we think of assimilation, I'm not saying that it's an absolute necessity, but it certainly helps as a catalyst and speeds up assimilation is inner marriage. Ruth comes in and she marries an Israelite. And I don't think it's a coincidence that David, who's a man after God's own heart, the second king of Israel and the best king of

Israel. David is not a moabite himself who immigrated in. And he's also not the second generation from Ruth being first generation immigrant. But it's Ruth marries Boas. They have Obed. Obed begets Jesse and then Jesse begets David. So by the time you get to David, right, it's Ruth, who is a moabites. But then you have Ruth, then Obed, then Jesse, then David. By the time you get to David, it's actually in the big scheme of things, not that much time. We're talking about maybe 100 years. But by the time you get to David, David is not just in spirit, not just in word, but in every sense of the word. He is an Israelite, a true Israelite, born and raised, right, eating Israelite apple pie. and he is fit.

He is fit in his pedigree, his descendency, his ancestry, his ancestry, and his, of course, spiritually in his heart for the Lord, and that's of most importance. But not just in that way, but in every way, he's fit to be king and to be a good one. And so, yes, the world that God made allows for some reasonable measure of mitigated immigration with assimilation, over time. But what we're doing now is not what I just described from scripture with Ruth to

Obed to Jesse to David. No, no, you're just importing people who have no, no skin in the game. And they're here, they're not even here for, to become Americans, you're here to send money home. That's, that's all they're, that, that's all they're here to do. It's, it's, it's the, the whole trope of we become a, um, you know, an open air strip mall. And, everything were just a financial zone. And that's it. And you hear people who are around Trump talk like that. You hear Elon Musk talk like that. Vivek, Robin Swine, who's probably going to be the friggin next

governor of Ohio. Yes. They, I mean, these are not people who, you know, when my, when my great-grandfather came here, he was literally escaping Jewish revolutionaries in Poland, who were basically rising up. And I mean, he's from, he was from the Hungarian, Austro-Hungarian Empire. Actually, he was probably more in Austria at the time that he left on that side. But, I mean, he didn't come here because he was sending money home.

He came here knowing that, like, he's basically cutting off everything. that he has back there. Right. And that's what Ruth did. Again, she says, your people will be my people, your God will be my God. It's not just what she's adding. And this is paramount. It's what she's forsaking. She's saying, your people are my people.

She's not saying, in addition to the mobites. No, she's saying, no, I'm making a switch. I am cutting off my own people, my own family. And I'm sure she still loves them. And I'm sure 10 years into living in Israel and being married to Boas, there were still probably moments where she catches the scent of some particular food that reminds her of some of her. She's like, like home is a powerful thing. And she probably, for the rest of her life, felt that sense of home. But she made the switch and she severed the line to where she probably had some moments of grieving, not grieving like, oh, I wish I could worship idols again.

but still just the nostalgia and the sense of home, the people, the smells, the sights. But because she actually severed the line and truly assimilated, you know who doesn't have that drawback towards home? Obet. And you know who also does Jesse? And then who also David. For them, Israel is all they've known. They're truly Israelites. And when you bring up Vivek and Elon, here's the deal. It's like, what's the common denominator between of those two guys. And I know you agree, and I'll say it, they're not American. I'm not saying that they don't have, that they're not American citizens. I'm not saying that, but they are not American. It's like, well, Vivek was born, you know, in America, you know, like maybe Elon, you

know, South Africa, but Vivek was born. No, biblically speaking, and Deuteronomy talks about this, and we don't have time for it, but I think that there is a strong biblical argument to be made that it is not until the third generation. So even for those who immigrated into Israel, it wasn't until the third generation that they were able to have the full rights, especially as it pertain to worship and entering the temple and making sacrifices, these kinds of things. It's not until the third generation that they're fully assimilated in. And Vivek would not qualify with using a biblical metric, God's metric, for what it means to truly assimilate into that country.

So we can look, and that doesn't mean, and therefore exploit them in misconduct them, treat them. And I'm not saying that. For goodness sake, it can't just be either or, they either are, you know, make them king or you hate them in your, no, there's a lot of space in between those two positions. And so, so Elon, treat them with respect. The vet, treat them with respect, but recognize neither one, with Vivek a little bit more so, second generation, but neither one is by God's standard, not Joel's standard, not Joel's, you know, whatever bigoted standards, you know, allegedly, but by God's standard, neither one, they can both be American citizens, and even that, there's a longer discussion to have about that and what that means and whether you

get full voting rights and blah, blah, blah, but American citizenship is different than I'm an American. I can get citizenship. It'd probably be tough, but I think I could pull it off. I could get citizenship in Japan, but I will never be Japanese. But if I move there as a single man and I marry Japanese woman, then my grandchildren will not only be Japanese citizens, but they will be Japanese. But I will always be an American. I can be an American who lives in Japan with Japanese citizenship, but I am not Japanese, and I never will be.

Not in one generation, not in one lifetime. That is not possible. And so when we look at, like, who's going to lead the country and who's going to have massive influence and who's going to be a governor of a state, like, one of the things that we should should hold as a prerequisite is not just American citizenship, but they have to be American. And those kinds of ties and bonds, ancestral bonds and fidelity, we are kidding ourselves if we think that those things happen apart from time. Time. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest.

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have people who are arguing that anyone can come here and be a citizen right away, you just become an American. Then you have the other end that's like, well, I mean, unless we deport everybody who wasn't here during the Civil War, whose family wasn't here during the Civil War, and it's like, all right, yeah, I mean, sure, that includes me, although I think I, I think on my, my mother's side, there were people here who were before the Civil War. It's hard to, some of those genealities used it really hard. but that doesn't seem to make sense.

I mean, you, if you look around, it's pretty obvious. And really, let's circle back on this. The way you make this easy is you have de facto balkanization. You start putting things down smaller. And then people can go, okay, well, who does not belong here? Well, you're going to have to go somewhere else. doing it for 300 million people, I mean, or 350.

I mean, I have a tendency to believe there might be 400 million people in the country right now. You can't, you're talking. Oh, Trump, deport all these people. Well, he said he could deport all these people. Well, he's not the smartest. He's not the light. He's not the brightest bulb in the room. For better or worse, Pete, you got to know this about me.

I love me some Trump. That said, I'm really struggling to trust a plan right now. Well, here's a thing. When you say that you can do this, you can't. You can only do this if you reduce it down to the local level. You have to mobilize people city-wise, county-wise, statewide. That's the only way this is going to happen. And those states, counties and cities who refuse to do it, well, now you have them on the list.

And now you know when it comes to Balkanization time, who, you know, they're, the military might have to show up. Right. Because we're not playing games anymore. That's right. Yeah, no, you're right. We know what needs to be done, and we can do it. And we can do it as moderates, right?

What you're describing, this, I mean, like, people are like, oh, my gosh, they're like, this is the moderate position, guys. There are way more, right? you and I both that we've been in the back recesses of the internet. Like there are, there are way more severe positions out there. And this is the moderate position, right? I always tell people all the time. I'm just, you know, I'm just, uh, your, your friendly neighborhood moderate centrist. And, uh, and this is, this is the moderate position, but, but you're right in terms of what, not what should be done, but what can be done, it cannot be done, apart

from getting, uh, smaller. We have to get smaller. Balkanization is, I think it's inevitable. It's either Cromwellian. That's why I asked you earlier, Cromwellian or Balkanization. And here's the thing about Cromwell, even if you could pull it off, it's a short shelf life, right? It works for maybe one generation, and then Cromwell's son turns out to be crappy, you know, and then you just default back to, you know, the previous position. So I think balkanization is inevitable, and it'll be hard. There'll be challenges, and there's downsides, it's not all roses. But on the whole, I believe by God's great. race, it will be good. And what it provides then is for certain groups to keep being libtarts,

you know, and that's a prerogative, but it allows other groups to actually have now, not just theoretically, you know, the ideas, but the ability to actually do these things, including the moderate positions. I won't speak for you. I don't know your thoughts, but for me, I don't think Thomas Sol has to go back. I just don't. Call me a little. whatever, Clarence Thomas, he's my guy. He doesn't have to go back. But I do think, I do think that we do need to look at who has been here for three generations. And there needs to be a full moratorium on immigration, especially immigration from the third world. And let's be honest, what are we talking about there? We're talking about we should only have some immigration

that's a net zero with people who are actually leaving the country from countries that are compatible with America, which are predominantly European countries, which are predominantly European stock, right? We know what we're talking about, and it's not racist, and we're not picking on people because we don't like certain colors. We're just talking about people who actually are compatible with our country and its founding and its way of life, but you can't do that as the country currently is with 330, 350 million people and one guy, Donald Trump. give, you know, the guy has faults, but give him a break. It's not just that, oh, well, Donald Trump, he's failing.

Like, no, he can't do it. No one can do it. This is a matter. Donald Trump could be Jesus incarnate, and he's absolutely not, just for the record. But even if he wants, there's just, there's some things you can't do. So we have to get smaller. When we get smaller, then we can not just talk about what we should do, but we can actually have the conversation about what we can do.

And there are, I believe, humane, God glorifying, merciful even moderate options of saying, okay, this person has to go back. This other person gets to stay, but, and they can have some form of citizenship, and they have equal rights under the law, they can't be exploited, blah, blah, blah. But they're not a voting citizen. They're not, because they still, in the big scheme of things, they arrived relatively recently. And it's not just American citizen that gets to direct the country, but it's American. And that speaks to ancestry. That speaks to rootedness. And with that, if I was king, which I'm not, but if I was king, and we had any voting at all, which even that I'm suspicious of, but we have any voting at

all, I would want to limit voting to heads of household, representative government at the household level, not individuals, but heads of households, I would want them to be men. I would want them to be Christian men, and I would want them to have a stake both in the past and in the future, meaning that in the past, three generations, minimum, to be able to be a voting citizen. In the future, stake in the future, married, married, with the assumption that marriage is for the purpose, many purposes, but one of the chief purposes being procreation and posterity. So they have a stake in the ground looking back and looking forward, right? And they history of the country, third generation, at least, and the future of the country. I'm married,

and I have children or the intention of having children. Also, I am a man, so it's not that the wife and children don't have a voice, but they don't have a vote. One household vote, and that the voices of the whole household being expressed through the vote of the head of that household, and I would want them to be Christian. So Christian, male, married, third generation, not just American citizen, but American. And those, that is a moderate, I mean, you might even, when we're done with this conversation, and Joel's, I'm not going to have him on the show again because he's a lib, but that is an extremely moderate position.

It's not even bringing color into the equation. It's not bringing. It's just saying you have to have a stake in the past. You have to have a stake in the future. And those kinds of conversations, believe it or not, I know it sounds crazy, but it actually, not just things that should be done, it can be done if we balkanize and get smaller. And I'm hopeful. I am, despite all the despair, at the end of the day, because I love the Lord Jesus Christ and I trust him, I actually think not only that it's a possibility, but I'm fairly white-pilled at the end of the day.

I think it's, I don't know if it happens in my lifetime, but I think it happens. Well, I would say I'm white-pilled too, mostly because I'm not putting my faith in politicians in Washington, D.C. Amen. I mean, that's the easiest black pill. If you, you know, there are people who are listening to this who are still, I mean, they're screaming, Balkanization means China is going to take over. You're not going to be able to fight the Jews. You're not going to be, it's like.

Enough about Michael O'Fallon, but go ahead. Yeah, you're, you just. have no clue how one person or one body and how much is 300, 350, 400 million people, and how that just doesn't work. You want to complain about, oh, all these libs and everything like that. It's like, well, you just want them to keep being a part of your polity. Yeah. No, they get a country.

They get a country. They get to be inside. Boy, we get to know where they are. But they have no say in our life. That's right. And I'm perfectly fine with that. People can start arguing, well, you have the cities versus the rural area. Shut up.

Yeah, people have to move, man. I tell people that all the time. I don't know if you know this, but I'm not much of a writer. My book, it's a glorified blog. Like, who am I kidding? But it's, you know, it's short, it's sweet, and I don't have poetry and prose. But it's true. It's a good, it's a simple point, but it's a relevant, pertinent, and true point.

And so I wrote this little book, Pete, called Fight by Flight. And the subtitle is why leaving godless places is loving godless places. And I know that's hard for, and I want to be sensitive. Everything we're talking about, home and heritage, and that's hard for the, fifth generation, you know, California farmer who doesn't live in L.A. He lives in Bakersfield, you know, or Modesto or something. I get it. And I'm so sympathetic. But, and he can stay, you know, if he wants for the time being, I'm not trying to bind the conscience. But if we're going to have hope, we're going to have to eventually balkanize. And when we balkanize, it's not going to be

by city. That's just, that's, we just have to be honest with ourselves. Geography matters. Right? God sets nations and borders and times, and he's done so, even the fabric of how he built the world physically, geographically, with mountain ranges and rivers and oceans. This is just, this is the world we live in. This is reality. Welcome to reality. And what it means is that there are some salt of the earth. Good, Christian, blue-collar people who live in California and voted for Trump three times. And they're going to have to move. They're going to have to come to us. I might have to move. Texas is kind of it's a little it's a little bit more sketchy than I like to admit but we're all going to have to be flexible but but by God's grace it'll pay dividends in the end and it'll be worth it I mean I agree people argue that you know we we should own the cities and we should people argue that's where political power is and it is but you know show me a really good plan for taking back the cities that's realistic.

Right. Not don't, don't tell me that Gerbil, that Gerbils went to Berlin and they took over Berlin. Okay. Okay. In a monoculture. Right. Right. Right. And in a lawless nation where you were warring in the streets. Okay.

Which we don't want. Yeah, I get that. I mean, I know the history. I read the book. I actually read the book. That's not here. Right. So you're going to have to figure something else out, especially in a, when you have a country

and even localities that have five and six different interests in it. You're going to have to figure something out. And it's not what you. you think it's going to be. It never is what you think it's going to be. It just does, it isn't. All you have to do is look at politics, see everything we are in the world, see everything that's going on in the world, and you think you know what's happening, you don't know what's

happening. They tell you what's happening, and then you find out what they told you was happening isn't what's happening. You don't know. You think you do, and you think that your anger or, you know, you know, you're, you know, your all because of the knowledge you have and all the books you read that you're going to figure it out you have it figured out on your own you and your little group chat you don't you don't it's not the same remedy for everywhere you're just going to have to figure it out and

stop i mean yeah just stop stop stop what you're doing right now reexamine everything that you believe and think about what we've been talking about. And we're not saying that we have it perfectly right. But I think both of us have been examining this for a long time and trying to examine it from a place where you put ideology aside for a second and you're like, okay, how does this work? Okay. I am not an ideal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not an ideologue. It is what is, it's all about the culture where you're going, what you're trying to build. Until you figure that out, until you just get over yourself, you're not, it's not going to work. What you're thinking is not going to work.

So you have to figure out what is going to work. Yeah, the name of the game, the way I would say it is short and sweet is all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, which I've enjoyed thoroughly, is that timeliness. not timelessness, timeliness, right? The sons of Issaacar, they knew the times, and they're not just visionaries and prophets, but they were pragmatists. They knew the times, and they knew what Israel ought to do. That's what we need.

We do not need rainbows and unicorns. We do not need ideologues. We do not need beautiful losers, and we also don't need principled losers who are trying to fight dead corpses that our forefathers already fought and buried

but ignoring the raging, living dragons in our own day. We need guys who know the times and who have conviction and principles but also are pragmatists and know what to do today and are willing to do. That's what we need.

And apart from that, you are just larping. It's a joke. Joel, I really enjoyed our conversation. Tell people where they can find your work. I've enjoyed it too. Thanks, Pete. It means a lot. I'm honored you had me on. So go to write response ministries on YouTube. Search right response ministries. And then on X, the handle is at right response M. M as in Macy's. Right. Response M. And that's about it. I appreciate it, Joel. Until the next time. Thank you. All right. Thanks.