The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1236: 'The Battle for Berlin' w/ Kurt Seidel from Antelope Hill Publishing

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

61 MinutesPG-13Kurt works for Antelope Hill Publishing.Kurt joins Pete to talk about themes covered in "The Battle for Berlin" by Joseph Goebbels. Antelope Hill recently published this work in English for the first time.Antelope Hill - Promo code "peteq" for 5% offThe Battle for BerlinPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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The Pekingones Show.com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano Show. Kurt from Antelope Hills here. How you doing, Kurt? Hey, I'm doing well. Thanks for having me back, I think. I believe I was here a couple of months ago, although I can't recall precisely.

Yeah, I've had three or four guys now from Antelope Hill on. We always have good discussions because we're talking about one of my favorite topics, which is broadly speaking books. And it's no different this time. So what's it been? Is it been a year now that you put out this book, Goebbels, Battle for Berlin? battle for Berlin. It's been out for a while. It's been long enough that I've lost track of exactly where it is in the

releases list. So six months a year, I'm not sure exactly. But yeah, we've headed out for quite a bit. Cool. Well, I'm glad to finally get to talking about it because you guys sent me a copy when it dropped and, yeah, immediately jumped into it because I think you guys are the ones who put it into English, right? I think the there was French version, there was obviously a German version. How many other... Is that it?

Is that the ones you're aware of? I'm not sure off the top of my head, but this is definitely the first English version or at least the first professionally done English version. That's the case with most of our translations. If there is an English version, oftentimes, there will be one that's available online that's, you know, machine translated,

something like that. Generally, if something's already in English, we won't bother with it unless it's something we think is really important to have republished for some reason. Yeah, and this does tell a great story from the pen of the man himself. So why don't you give us an introduction into, you know, well, first of all, why did Annelope Hill think that this was so important to publish and then you can start getting into it? Sure. Well, we've had a few books on this sort of topic within sort of Third Reich studies or Third Reich literature.

The time period of, well, in between the Beer Hall Putsch and the actual rise of power, it tends to get glossed over in popular history. what most people know about it is that there was the first attempt in 23 with the beer hall push and Hitler gets arrested and then he gets out and then he comes to power. Sort of as simple as that as far as most people are concerned. What they don't know as much about is the mechanics of exactly how that transpired, how they were able to come back from their leader being arrested for treason, the party being banned, large parts of it

breaking off into splinter groups or local organizations or people just getting disheartened and going home. And then managing to whip it back into shape and actually rise to be the largest party in Germany. Of course, this was no easy task

and even before the beer hall push It's worth keeping in mind that the NSDAP was basically a regional party. Its real strength was in Bavaria and almost nowhere else. They had some local party chapters in other places, but they were insignificant. The Bavarian party was really the core of it. Goebbels, of course, he actually, he doesn't start off in Berlin or in Bavaria. his real claim to fame before he moves to the Berlin party is organizing in the Rhineland. The Rhineland, of course, was very heavily proletarian.

It's the most industrial part of Germany. It was actually the scene of quite a few left-wing uprisings in the 20s. And so that was its own whole battle, one that I'd like to do a book about sometime in the future. but sadly haven't found anything good yet so when he moves to Berlin the party has already made sort of a comeback it's exploded in popularity right but Berlin itself is sort of the crown jewel the missing from the the NSDA AP's crown breaking into Berlin of course just being the political capital the forces of the state, of the security apparatus, of the other parties, they're very strong in Berlin.

And Berlin's also heavily proletarian as well. The left-wing movements there are very strong. Berlin is really seen as a red stronghold. And so coming in and cracking that, obviously they sort of select Goebbels because he's got a proven track record from his work in the Rhineland. And Berlin really becomes the toughest fight of all of them. And I think that's why we like to focus on the Berlin aspect of the rise to power. And this is, I think, our third or fourth book that's pretty heavily focused on Berlin as the scene of the heaviest political fighting in this time period. Well, Berlin is normally described as like the political economic and cultural center of Germany. And at that time, the book points out that it wasn't a, it wasn't a homogenous city.

But that is, when we talk about cities not being homogenous now, we're talking about something much different. Berlin was mostly people, well, except for people who would come in from the outside. most of the people in Berlin were Germans just from different parts of the country, just like any large country that has big cities. People from all over are going to flock to them. That's correct, right? Yeah, absolutely. Berlin is the political capital.

Of course, since 1871, 72, the capital of the capital of the United Germany. It transformed very rapidly. and it brought in people from all across Germany, like you noted. A lot of, or an expanding proletariat, as well as, of course, political elites from all over, financial elites from all over. Also, it was really the hub of national media. And Goebbels points this out that the pace of the media environment in Berlin moves much faster than anywhere else.

Probably compare New York City somewhat in this respect. And that causes certain problems for them and also certain opportunities, but they really have to change their tactics to keep up with how fast-paced Berlin is as a city and how the people there aren't really as rooted as in other places. Even the Rhineland, Goebel's notes, while the Rhineland was rapidly industrializing, rapidly growing, challenging in that way, most of the working class in the Rhineland were sort of first or second generation coming out of the peasant classes. Whereas Berlin is being much more cosmopolitan, much more bourgeois in certain ways. it's sort of a whole new world that he has to adjust to. Well, when he gets there, he has to mobilize for support.

And he describes like three groups, supporters, bystanders, and opponents. He says, basically supporters, you're there to offer them inspiration. Provocation is a word used for bystanders and threats to opponents, considering how revolutionary it was at the time the Communist Party, Deutschland, was probably, how much bigger would you say it was at this point than the NSDAP was? You know, I think they might have already eclipsed them in total numbers nationwide, but communist support was heavily localized to the industrial areas. and Berlin was an industrial center itself in addition to just being the political center.

And in Berlin, they were very powerful. When Goebbels shows up, at least by his account and by some of the accounts and other books we published, the local NSDAAP is like 12 guys in a basement. It's tiny, it's ineffective, and they're already infighting with each other, really accomplishing nothing. By his account, barely no one even knows that there's a Berlin chapter of the NSDAP. They still kind of regard them as a provincial party. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back.

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So basically what their goal was, or his goal was, was polarize, rhetoric that's polarizing that mobilizes support through basically dividing. I mean, you have to basically become a partisan because the threat of communism taking over is so strong at this point, especially since they have international. support that you have to seek to drive a wedge through people. And I guess nobody, nobody did it better when it came to writing and, you know, using, using language than Goebel's at that point. Yeah, absolutely. He talks a lot about how the first battle is sort of just to be noticed at all, and that they have to cross that bridge before they can even start

convincing anyone or driving support to the party. He's quite satisfied when the left-wing press starts writing all kinds of defamatory stories about them and accusing them of all sorts of criminal acts and all of that. And he just kind of laughs and says, well, at least they're talking about us, which is a sentiment, I think, that'll be pretty commonly understood by people on the right. in the United States today. The most effective tactic that the media has used here is simply ignoring us. And it seems to have been the same for Goebbels all these years ago.

On top of, you know, for lack of a better phrase, propaganda, and basically drawing attention to themselves, street violence was, talk a little bit about the street violence that was happening. happening at that time. I don't think, you know, those of us who come through a libertarianism, all you really hear about when it comes to Weimar is inflation. It's all economic policy. And people just, most people don't have an understanding of just exactly how much revolutionary action was going on there. And even way before this, but, you know, this would be with him coming and becoming galiter, there was no way that it wasn't going to amp up by necessity.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. He does talk quite a bit about, well, there's sort of two different variants of street violence that take place in his narrative. There's the big clashes that they're usually, at least somewhat prepared for. sometimes they even provoke it a bit and then there's the sort of everyday street violence so the big ones for example there's a pretty action-packed account of a meeting that they hold in I forget the exact name of it but it was one of the venues that the communists themselves liked to use and so when they rented it out

when the NSDAP rented it out. This, of course, the communists are incensed. They're, you know, determined to go in there and throw them out and show them that they won't get their way in the red part of town. And this is where you get the big archetypal beer hall brawl, people throwing glasses and breaking chairs over each other's heads and that sort of thing. And it spills out into the street and the police get involved.

and all that kind of stuff. But sort of the more concerning thing, as far as they were concerned, was the sort of everyday attacks on their supporters, situations where communists or whoever else was determined to use violence against them would simply attack a party member on his way home from work out in public or ambush small groups of them when they were doing propaganda actions, that sort of thing.

And it really, he notes that this really wasn't something that was taking place early on, right when he got there. At first, their enemies were sort of content to laugh at them and belittle them and ignore them when they could.

And this gave them enough of a chance to build up a solid core of, well, of dedicated men before the real violence started kicking off. And then sort of as soon as they, as soon as their enemies belatedly realized that they weren't going away that easily, that's when the violence all started kicking off. That's when people started getting attacked in the streets, ganged up on coming home from the bar at the end of the day, all of that sort of thing. And they had guys in the hospitals constantly.

Even notes at times, there would be communist supporters in the hospitals who would then further attack their guys. They were sent there. And they were actually, out of necessity, had to either treat their own supporters at private homes with whatever resources they could scrape together or post guards essentially in the hospitals to keep them from getting further. abused. I mean, it really, it escalated very quickly and all at once and turned into a very dire situation. What was the legal reaction to this at the time? I mean, the, you basically have revolutionary violence in the street. And I guess, I guess the big question that comes up is when you really start getting down to this is how, you know, we know in the early 20s people get thrown as jail. Fear was thrown in jail. But how are people staying out of jail? How were you able

to have basically, you know, what is essentially militias in the street? And, you know, I think people would just want to know about law and order at that time. How do you get away with this if, how do you get past law and order? Sure. Well, you know, I think the, the, the primary reason is that law enforcement and investigative tactics and technology just really weren't there at this time period

they didn't have a mass surveillance state didn't have security cameras they didn't have anything really and unless you had witnesses who could point out a suspect or if the police managed to obtain someone and find a weapon

on them that kind of thing then largely nothing really happened. It's worth keeping in mind, I think, that this type of partisan street violence is really not something that any law enforcement group is really prepared to combat. When things get this radicalized to point where enough people are committing enough violence in the streets,

they're going to be overwhelmed. the investigative resources simply aren't there. The other thing I think is the German legal system at this time period, at least from what I can gather from these sort of accounts, you're not going to see the sort of what they would consider draconian punishments that you see meet it out in the United States for this type of violence. Assaults don't land you in prison for five. 10 years. It's more like a fine and maybe a couple months and they're out on the street again.

Authorities in Germany at the time seemed very reluctant to bring the boot down on this kind of stuff, even if they had had the ability. At most times, it's, well, a combination of selective enforcement, for example sort of warrantless searches and raids on party headquarters and that sort of thing and they have to be very careful

firearms are something that will get someone in a lot of trouble in this time period so most of them forget firearms and use other kinds of weapons it's a lot more fists and

improvised weapons again with like the beer hall brawl situations no one is bringing guns to those. They're smashing each other upside the head with beersteins and that sort of thing. That keeps a lot of heat off of them. But more broadly, the method that the police and the state tend to use is just going after the organizations themselves, right? They sort of know who's organizing the violence, and when it gets out of hand, they crack down on the party itself, either by banning it outright

or going after the leadership, that sort of thing. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast.

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I think one of the reasons that you publish a book like this is because a lot of people see that we're in, much the same situation that they were. I have a tendency to combine it a little more with like the Spanish Civil War, what led up to the Spanish Civil War. But, you know, I can definitely see parallels here. And I guess what a lot of people who would read this book is, and I've actually heard people say this, is, you know, in the United States, the centers of power are the cities.

and with this with this guy who's been in the country for less than 10 years getting the nomination to the Democrat nomination for the mayor of Kansas City in New York City people are like well we just can't

give up on cities everything and I've actually heard people invoke this book so one of the reasons we want to read history is we want to learn and see what can be done to solve situations that people have been in in the past that are similar to ours. I mean, honestly, when you look at this and you try to apply it to our situation, how would you even begin? I guess that's the million dollar question, right?

Without Fed posting, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Of course, it's, well, the main difference between our situation and their situation, is that a city like Berlin had been largely taken over by, you know, what you could term alien elements. They were hostile to German national feeling, hostile to the aspirations of the German people as a whole. But they weren't quite as alien as the forces that have taken over most American cities. That's sort of a whole other problem. because the

well the issue in a place like New York is persuasion isn't really a tool that can bring about a serious change there not in terms of something like local politics I mean it is essentially an alien city at this point

just to keep running with New York as an example I think it's probably the most fitting So the actual means of sort of political attack are necessarily different. It'd be very hard to sort of plant yourself in New York the same way that the NSDIP planted themselves in Berlin and sort of staked out a claim. Could be done, it's possible. Even just to have a presence in the cities would be better than having none. So, you know, I'm not sure how much relevance this would have to the actual, to political activities in the cities today.

But obviously at some point that has to happen. At some point, the cities have to be reclaimed in some sense. And that's not going to happen without at least some local presence without sort of showing the flag. But it is a very difficult situation that we're in. And I'm not sure it's, it's, I'm not sure there's much that we could do in, in that respect. Now, I do think that the same tactics and, in the same understanding is still applicable to, to places of maybe secondary significance. Maybe not your, your New York cities, maybe not your Washington, D.C.,'s.

but there's a hundred cities scattered all across the United States that are in dire need of some local action. We know that they've been getting a lot of action from the revolutionary left, because that's usually the way. That's always the way it starts. It never seems like revolutionary action from the right is always just responding to revolutionary action from the left. Sometimes the people who become the revolutionary right actually come out of the revolutionary left because they know exactly what's happening. And they're like, okay, well, this isn't going to work. But yeah, just from my reading, some older, some books I've read about a diary from an Austrian woman throughout World War I and then throughout the hunger. the starvation blockade, it just seems that once the city, once a city is taken over,

the only way you're going to take it back is block by block, but also you have to take, it has to be taken into consideration that the people who are doing that also, you know, a lot of them are related to each other, seventh and eighth cousins. They're a specific, they're a specific ethnicity. They share something in common. And I think that's probably, you know, the main reason that the NSDAP could do what they did, and especially in a town like Berlin, you're, you can only use fists and force and violence so much if you're not going to have. cohesiveness when it comes to who you are and who you're standing next to, you're in a heap of

trouble when, you know, you have, you have diasporas that have come into your country and now overwhelm certain areas. I mean, Canada is like, I've heard that, like, the province that Ontario, the province of Toronto's, and the province of Toronto's. or the section has just been taken over by Indians. So, you know, there's a lot to take into consideration when, you know, when you can look at Berlin and think, okay, well, there's a whole lot of Bolshevik Jews who just poured over the border from Russia and other places, and it's pretty easy to spot them.

And they didn't have nearly the numbers if we're comparing to, today, right? Between them and I guess the sizable group of like white Russian emigres and other smaller groups, I mean, I don't have the numbers handy, but it can't have been more than 10%. Right? I would be shocked if it was even that many. Berlin was still a German city. It might not have had the same feeling as the rest of Germany, but it was still a German city. And that counted for a lot. to them to a political party whose core belief is the unity of all Germans as a national whole. Today even our smaller cities are as bad as Berlin ever was.

And that's sort of where I think any right-wing revolutionary movement in this country is going to have to start. And of course, again, pointing back to sort of the backstory of the book and the way they introduced it, the NSGAP didn't start in Berlin either. They started where they had more popularity among the masses down in Bavaria and expanded from there into the Rhineland and other parts of Germany. They were smart about it. They had a good strategy. They adapted their message slightly for different areas. of course everyone's familiar with the sort of northern branch of the party that had Gregor

Strasser before his fall from glory as a major ideological voice up there adapting to the local conditions in that region and yeah of course Berlin was sort of the last place that they went they had at that point experienced leaders they had resources that could sustain the party on a national level, they didn't just jump right in there and think it was all going to work out. And of course it doesn't. Throughout the whole, throughout the story of this book, basically everything that can go wrong does go wrong.

And the major story arcs that take place are them managing to figure it out and come back from it every time until eventually it sticks. Right. That's sort of the story, the part of it that is mostly missing in the common perception of what happens in Germany in this time period. There are a lot of ups and downs. There are minor crises that pop up, that shake up the political scene a bit, and it's not really over until that last minute.

there's even the sort of abortive communist uprising when they realize that the national socialists are going to win unless they do something about it that has to be put down. Sort of a last ditch orgy of violence to try to stop them. It's really not over until that last moment where they finally seize power. You catch them in the corner of your eye, distinctive by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon and Terramar,

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Wravehnaisna in Aundoon and there's Gereena to Gaean Tamal Fada Gail to Deirin. In Ergrid, we're taking tour

in one-whunah to find of doing on lecturers on as a onus in all the town, people,

tariff at one there's or cooctuagin. Follow him this more at Ayrgyp.a.i. Do you do you guys have or do you know of

a books that like you know because the book starts out with Goebel's talking about how he's in he's in Rour in Elberfeld and that that's basically at that time

it's a spiritual center of national socialism in Western Germany that how you'd build that up because that's pretty much, I think, where we're at. There's much to be learned from this book, especially just inspiration and determination. But the, I mean, are we talking about, would the second half of the Austrian painters book be instructive to that? Or what's your opinion?

You know, I've really been looking for something that goes into this. Of course, there's less written about it because it's sort of the first chapter of their comeback. Berlin is this glorious triumph, right? The end of this story feeds directly into the seizure of power and the beginning of the Third Reich. it's been very difficult for me to locate something that goes into the or at least it provides a narrative account of the building up of the party in the Rhineland in the east in other areas outside of Bavaria when they first make that that jump into trying to be a truly national party so any listeners out there who have a lead on this please let us know there's plenty there's plenty out there's plenty out there there on organization. Like I said, the furor's book, the second half is, or the last part of it, is pretty good on organization. But the, just basically what they went through in the smaller towns where that's where, that's where people are going to be more open to the idea. I mean,

these are people who suffer more with the blockades. A lot of them suffered violence from hordes, from hordes that poured over the border. So it's, you know, and you would think Berlin, especially what they went through, that it would be, they would be more open to that kind of message there. But you also have the competing message of Bolshevism at the time, which is also very, you know, it can be very enticing to people who feel like they've been defeated. Yeah, absolutely. Although I do think Goebbels gives, well, reserves quite a bit of his disdain for the liberal parties as well.

You know, the communists he sees as, of course, dangerous. but they're basically dangerous the way that like a wild animal is dangerous, right? You know it's going to hurt you if you step into its den. He sort of, in those scenarios, he kind of takes the position of, well, we're prepared to fight them and we're going to go and fight them, and we're fairly confident that we can beat them because their only tool really is violence and we know how to deal with violence. It's the liberal parties and the sort of the media machine in Germany, like I was already talking about Berlin as sort of the media capital. And the sort of, I don't know how to characterize exactly the bourgeois type that's really prevailing in Berlin at this time period, just sort of very caught up in the ever-changing day to day. life of the capital

and don't really don't really care about these sorts of things the sort of ones that see themselves as being above it all these are the people who sort of give free reign for the basically liberal dictatorship that exists at this period to just sort of abuse the members of the party

and and let the police run wild on them Of course, the one character that he really disdains above all others is the police commissioner, or I believe when it starts off, he's deputy police commissioner, but he's basically in charge of the sort of political police or the interior police. A guy named Bernard Weiss was Jewish and obviously had a serious, serious grudge. against the NSDAP and would basically just harass them with the interior police at every conceivable opportunity at this whole feud with him relating to cartoons that they had made of him like

what's what's the word satirical cartoons about uh about Weiss he ended up suing gobbles for defamation a couple of times and losing. It's like two whole chapters that revolved just around this feud with the Jewish police chief. Whereas, yeah, I think the communists don't get as much of a personal treatment in this account. It really is, they are sort of the NPC goons that are just constantly coming after them. Well, I think one of the more important things that he does in the book, and I think this is something that anyone who's looking, starting an organization or doing anything, is he really goes after the struggle, talking about the struggle and the sacrifice so far. you have to talk about the early struggles and what you went, what you went through, the heroes that came before you, and also, you know, talk about the old guard and how, you know,

you're continuing their work and, you know, you use that to seek and inspire, seek to inspire and honor and give people a sense of exactly what's, you know, what's its sense. stake here. Yeah, absolutely. It really is the sort of common heroism of the average party member or SA man that kind of shines

through here. I do think it really emphasizes how much of it would have been impossible without those people. Even at the beginning when he talks about having to really call these local groups of people,

who sort of either want to just be an idle talk shop or want to do infighting or want to constantly question orders or party directives, that sort of getting rid of those guys and keeping only the toughest men who were dedicated, who wanted to fight, who wanted to sacrifice themselves, how instrumental. that was for their eventual victory. Yeah, and also just, you know, the values that you've always shared. The values of the country, the values, well, not the country, but the people, the values of the nation. And I guess what the regime that's been in charge since World War II has figured out is the best way to make sure that that's not an issue is to either when you start talking about the past,

what your ancestors did, you know, you're not allowed to celebrate that or even brag about it because you didn't do it. It was them and they did it and they're evil anyway because they either owned slaves or they were okay with slavery. They were alive during slavery. they invented slavery, whatever the hell these people want to talk about. Right, right. It all has to be made a subject of deconstruction or critical analysis, right? It's sort of heroism can't be allowed to be a part of that narrative. Ready for huge savings?

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And now this is over a nation in the hamshira. It's lear, that the law Gwija and not Gereena in Aundun, and leander Gala to give a time of father, Gail to Deirin. In Ergrid, we're dig tour tauchy in one of oneah to find out of unlawful. There's ozherstress who can't do anything to offer to one day. There's air of Coof, Agnesmo, to Ergaret, Ponga. Yeah, the Frankfurt School and the authoritarian personality,

They laid that out perfectly. They said, if we allow Americans to rely too much upon their past and look to their past too much or brag about their past or think that there's anything good in their past, well, that's just going to lead them to fascism. So we need to make sure that they're looking forward to whatever progressive kind of worldview that we're selling. And I think that a lot of people don't even realize that they're doing that. Whether you're a conservative, a libertarian, or whatever you want to call yourself, I think even some people, you know, on the right side of the Great Divide, as Zeman would have, you know, talked about it, would, you know, they almost reflexively, or they reflexively fall into that and then they have to.

catch themselves and and go back to it and go, no, no, my, our, our history is rich. We, we did things that no one was ever able to do. And the reason we did that is because we share an identity. Sure, yeah. Yeah, you'll see oftentimes, I guess, like conservative types. Even, even when they think they're taking a stand, they'll say things like, well, sure, they own slaves and

you know they genocided the Native Americans and they did this and that and all that was bad but and then they'll try to sort of rescue that by saying you know they made democracy or it was better

than what everyone else was doing at the time and they were all worse or things of that nature stuff that's that automatically puts you on the defensive and puts you in the position of sort of deprecating your own history, your own culture, where you came from. And it really is, it's so ingrained in most people that I think sometimes they do,

like you said, they sort of have to catch themselves when they start doing it. Yeah, and the easiest one is that anybody can be an American, anybody can be a member of the nation. And while I, you know, my, obviously my, ancestors came here later than the founders and everything but you're always going to have some that are grafted in but you know really you can look at to a certain point and I would say for for the overwhelming majority that point is probably the 50s going into the 60s and then Hartzeller of course we had a we had

an invasion in the 1880s that you know we're still trying to get over but yeah just saying that anyone can come here and especially the way everything is set up now where there is no national, where the national identity has been written out of the, out of education, out of conversation, out of the culture, then you're,

you're searching to get something back, and that's exactly, you know, Goebbels talks about it in the book that, you, when you're looking at the cultural and moral, decay of Berlin, you know, national socialism was being pushed as to redemption to what once was. Yeah, yeah. It is sort of noteworthy how, how sort of factless the conservatives in Germany at that time were,

sort of same kind of position as they take to us today. Actually, that's, That's one of the things that I've said repeatedly about this book is that the most relevant part is the sort of diagnosis of conservatism that's sort of implicit in the actions that they take. Always obsessed with social standing and prestige, which of course Goebbels notes that that basically means approval by Jews because they controlled all the media channels that. would make one prestigious or not that would determine whether you were socially acceptable or whether you were a deplorable radical. This basically let them lead the conservatives around by the nose, and that the conservatives were at times completely useless in preventing the sorts of abuses, the abuse of tactics that were used against the national socialists, and at times the conservatives willingly joined

in. Of course, especially relevant with the sort of last effort of staving off a national socialist government was the coalition between the conservatives, the center party back then, currently the CDU, and the socialists. They actually teamed up to prevent the national socialists from entering government, which, of course, if you look around today, is nothing new. This is going on in Germany right now. This has been going on in France for decades. And if the United States had a multi-party system, you can bet it would be happening here. Yeah, the, uh, what you said about them just conservatives always wanting the, uh, basically, they want to be patted on the head. head by who's ever in power.

And, you know, we know that's been for a long time here. Yeah, it just makes them, it's the, the old thing about how they're always reaching out to the left and punching to their right, where they, they think that they've been so conditioned that anything that, anything from the past where, yeah, if it looks like it's to the right of, you know, Ronald Reagan, then it's just, then you have people on the right wing screaming Nazi and anti-Semite. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where you just want to break out the gifts of like Triggly Puff. I just break out the gifts of Trigley Puff and like purple hair at SJWs and say, here, here you are. This is what you are. Yeah, just throwing that out there.

Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. Because, of course, in Germany, during this time, it was or should have been even more apparent or even more absurd to be a conservative who wasn't a radical, right? They had watched the social democratic party basically tear down the entire foundation of the German state over the past 10, 15 years, depending on exactly what time period you're talking about. you know, overthrow the Kaiser completely take over the state, essentially. I mean,

it was a, it was a coup d'etat. And the conservatives, 15 years later, are basically defending that system, saying that the, the national socialists are a threat to the realm. They are radical.

They are, you know, this and that, the other thing. They're dangerous, basically, for sort of belatedly responding, to this totally illegitimate coup I thought. And it's really just amazing because if you look at the United States in the same vein,

of course, we didn't have an event quite as singular or traumatic as Germany's loss in the Great War and the subsequent revolution. But when you look at the speed at which things have changed, like Donald Trump being the first, first president to run on a pro-gay platform the absolute demographic catastrophe that's been building up how rapidly everything is changing and still you have conservatives who believe that it is too radical to oppose it even even to a condition to restore it to a condition of 10 or 15 or 20 years ago right not much there's not much daylight in between the German conservatives of this time period and the American conservatives of today.

Back then, you could still look at the politicians in Germany and say that they were for Germany. They want, even if they were misguided, they wanted what was best for Germany. You can't even say that anymore here. You're looking at, you know, what just came over two hours ago, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. I mean, this is a guy who is supposed to be like solving health problems. He's taking pictures with people holding up signs of hostages in Gaza, where this isn't, to call this a country, to call this in, well, you can call it a country.

You can't call it a nation. It's just not a nation. A nation is a people. And people, a nation has leaders who care about the country. People can say whatever they want about John F. Kennedy. And John F. Kennedy looks like a, you know, like a hardcore right winger now because he actually loved America. I mean, the guy loved women, too. Don't get me wrong.

But the guy, the guy loved America. Well, can't call him for that, right? Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to. But the, you know, we don't even have, it's very easy to get blackpilled if you're, if you think that in any way, shape, or form like national politics is going to fix this. And it, like, you know, like we were talking about, this has to start in, this has to start in one location and it needs to spread and it needs to spread like wildfire. You know, you need your, you need your Elberfelds to pop up all over the place. And then you can start thinking about, okay, where do we, you know, what do we go from here? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, of course, just purely the difference in like the way that the electoral system works does mean that there has to be tactical differences. but the core proposition of you sort of need to control space, right? You need to control territory. You need loyalty. You need people. That's what's necessary to accomplish anything. You know, the talk shop doesn't accomplish this stuff by itself.

A lot of things. A lot of narratives can be spun up. Some things I think we can actually look at and agree can be done on like social media. But when it comes down to it, it's, that's not where it's going to happen. You're just going to have to get off social media and you're going to have to make things happen in real life as dangerous as that is. You know, you're just going to basically have to do. decide you're a partisan and this is this is who you are now and you know if you really want to see real change in your life it's probably going to cost you yeah that's that's certainly true

even just to do what we've done at an all up hill has involved you know personal costs sacrifices that have had to be made um negative consequences that have that have happened from that and all we do is publish books to really to really accomplish anything even even bordering on what the national socialists were able to do in Germany in the 20s that's a whole other can of worms it is going to take extremely dedicated smart brave people to even begin to arrive at any kind of political solution until that point, look what we're stuck with.

We have guys like Trump and JD Vance and these other types that are sure, I mean, you can rightly say that they're an improvement over previous iterations in several respects. But they're not even close to

what would be necessary to bring a political revolution to the United States. And that's what's required. is a political revolution. Obviously, I don't mean by that, a violent revolution of the kind that some people salivate over, but it is worth noting that even a peaceful revolution,

like the one that the national socialists led, that is one that is primarily obtained through peaceful political means. There was a lot of violence that was necessary even to just defend themselves as they were trying to carry out that political revolution. Yeah. Strategy is really important, knowing exactly what you can get away with. And also, and I've said this for a long time, you just have to do it legitimately. You know, the one good thing about America and about a lot of the local, local polities is it's easy to get elected.

And you can, you run the right guy, you can get sheriffs elected, you can get mayors elected, you can get school boards elected. There's a lot you can do. And that's the way it needs to be done. in the United States. That's the way people want to see it done. You know, I was saying all throughout COVID was, you know, when people are like, well, you know, if they have mass vaccinations or something like that,

the government was going to do. Now, thankfully, they didn't try that. Then, you know, your local sheriff, you know, deputizing everyone in the town and lining up on the, you know, on the county line and saying, you know, tell them you can't come here. you know, that is that is something that people will see

even when the propaganda machine goes into spin that is something that regular people will see as legitimate over, you know, putting together a posse to stop them and it's possible to do in the United States. Absolutely. And it's, you know, that kind of thing might fall under the

general banner of like civil disobedience. But that's the type that actually works, whereas the useless type of civil disobedience is just going out as some guy and doing what liberals do, which is wave signs on the side of the road and that sort of thing. That affects nothing. When it's a, like you said, like a local sheriff or something like that or a local elected official of some type who's refusing to comply, then suddenly it's news, it's a crisis, it's something for people to get stirred up over and take sides.

And as Goebbels kind of talks about, that's really the prerequisite. You have to be noticed first before anything can happen. You have to get people activated or what was the word he used? provocation. Provocation has to take place. And it's a lot easier to do that when you're not a nobody. And I'll echo what you said about just the importance of that and also that it's not really as hard as people tend to make it out to be. I know several examples off the top of my head of times when people on our side of things have actually taken

this to heart and have taken local political action that has been effective, that has resulted in people either winning elections or defeating local initiatives, getting on school boards, that sort of thing. It does happen. And if people can get organized enough around that sort of concept and dedicate enough of their time and money and intelligence and bravery more of that can happen and needs to happen 100% been saying it been saying it for you know a number of years now that's that's the way things need to be done so um all right let's uh let's cut it right there tell people about antelope hill uh about you know some of the latest releases and everything and uh i'll i'll give my my discount code so people can go there and check it out all right well yeah

of you out there who may not have heard of us before. Anilup Hill publishes historical literature, oftentimes new translations into English that have never been done before, or reprints of particularly significant works. We also publish original fiction, which has been a growing part of our catalog by current right-wing authors, so you might find interesting. our website is annulipillpublishing.com and if you head over there you can check at our catalog we put out a lot of books typically two books every month

so there's something for just about everyone in that catalog and I highly encourage you if you enjoy Pete's show you'll definitely enjoy some of the things you can find there and use code Pete Q get 5% off your order And usually you're going to order a large amount at once so that the 5% will definitely definitely help.

So Kurt, I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Thanks for the top. Yeah. Thank you for having me. This has been great.