The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1241: Organisation Todt and German Infrastructure w/ Thomas777 and Dark Enlightenment

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

57 MinutesPG-13Pete had Thomas777 and Dark Enlightenment to talk about Organisation Todt, who were responsible for infrastructure projects in National Socialist Germany.Thomas' SubstackThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777DE's Telegram ChannelPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'VIP Summit 3-Truth To Freedom - Autonomy w/ Richard GroveSupport Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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even though I think on the last ad, I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed, you're going to have to subscribe your substack, or through Patreon. You can also subscribe on my website, which is right there, gumroad, and what's the other one? Subscribe Star. And if you do that, you will get access to the audio file.

So head on over to the Picanuos Show.com. You'll see all the ways that you can support me there. And I just want to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can put out the amount of material that I do. I can do what I'm doing with Dr. Johnson on 200 years together and everything else. The things that Thomas and I are doing together on continental philosophy. It's all because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank you enough.

So thank you. The Pekinguono Show.com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano Show. So the interesting thing about this episode is this episode is a year late. We had this episode planned for July 13th of last year. And then something really weird happened in Pennsylvania, Butler, Pennsylvania. And we ended up talking about that.

And, well, what better time than on the year anniversary to revisit the subject of the infrastructure of the NSDAP and Germany of 1930, of the 1930s. and yeah, especially as our infrastructure is crumbling around us. So Thomas, how are you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing pretty well, man. Thanks for including me. Cool. Z.E., how are you? I'm great, man.

It's always a pleasure to be on with you and always a pleasure to be on with Thomas. I've learned with so much to you guys, man. College classes, every single one of your guys is a series or a series of college lectures. It really is fantastic. That's a great compliment. Thank you. Z.E. this is this is your subject man this was your idea i'm i'm just going to interject to ask questions why

don't you take off and uh and go where you want to go all right well i'll try to try to keep the autism to a minimum here but um just as a brief aside i'll give you a brief sketch um the road network in europe wasn't as good as it was in the time of uh the five good emperors again until like the late 19th century and macadam invented his macadamization asphalt paving process and i want to say like 1830 so imagine like a road network where nothing is paved or hardly anything is paved and only like cities might have cobblestones and maybe maybe maybe like major highways between say like rome and australes. to you might be paved.

But that's not normal. Now, I mean, like you can get like lightly laid in carts and stuff, you know, to and from places. But really, like, in order to keep the road from turning into like a mud bog, you got to pave it to keep the water off. And, uh, the most efficient way to transport anything is of course via water, which is why Germany is richer than Italy because Italy has one real river valley, the pole in the north,

and it outflows into Venice, which is a decent port only because of the heroic efforts of the Venetians themselves. It's normally very swampy and not a difficult or a very difficult place to make a living. Only the heroic efforts of the Venetians have made it someplace prosperous and livable. And, you know, France has got six huge river valleys, basically. Nowhere in the UK or nowhere in England itself is more than 25 miles from water, from like a port that will get to get to water. So that's why those two countries were in Germany were the most prosperous countries in Europe, you know, Spain only has the ebro.

So in a world where like heavy transport has to be done via water basically because the roads aren't up to it. Like, how do you develop internally, right? In Germany, it'd only been united since, what, 1871 was that? I want to say-79. Right, okay, 1879. So, like, like, four years after uncle is born is, you know, like, you know, like, you know, is, or four years before, right? Like, this is not-

I don't- I was born 1889. All right, I'm sorry. I was thinking Mussolini, right? So, you know, Musulini's born in in 1883, right? He's only 13 years before is when Italy was was, was again a whole political entity. And, you know, Hitler was only like 10 years before Hitler was born is when Germany became a whole nation again. So you have these what had been, you know, how do you integrate like the campaign?

the two Sicily's road network into the papal state's road network into the city of states and the north road network um you know do you have the same standards in Bavaria and Pomerania how does that work so you've got this huge coordination problem that takes forever to figure out and uh at least in the holy roman empire a big part of what made like little baronyies economically viable was their traditional right to tax. So you'd have these locks all along this river network in Germany where, you know, this baron of this one little spot would charge a toll. There's this massive increase in internal costs, you know, just shipping

something down the Rhine. There'd be a stop here and a stop here and a stop here. So improving the transportation network and essentially internal free trade, right, like what list says, right? Internally free trade and development. allows you to greatly decrease your transportation costs, your friction, right? And allows you to ship things over land between rail, which is 10 times more efficient than roads. That's why the 19th century was a century of just railroad mania, right? The United States, Germany, France, the UK, all over the place.

Rail was the name of the game. But that rail network, that build out of the rail network, that build out of the rail network allowed you to build out the road network because your transportation costs for things like, I don't know, gravel, all of a sudden dropped by 50, 60, 70, 80% when you can throw it on a train. And just, just as a quick aside, you know, one of the things that the British wanted to do, when they, when they, for all practical purposes, one, the scramble for Africa, they wanted to build a, a real, road that started in North Africa and ended at the Cape. So basically, like, they wanted to have, like, a trans-Siberian railroad that, like,

spanned Africa, which is totally insane. But it would have been, it probably would have been viable, man, if they could have held it, you know, and if they hadn't detonated their own fortunes. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Well, and that's actually part of the, you bring it up, but, like, there was a conflict with the Portuguese because the Portuguese had Angola, yeah, Angola and Mozambique, right? And they wanted to,

they wanted a trans African railway to control their, their holdings on the east and west coast. And the British one of theirs going north, south. And they, they almost got it. I mean, I can remember they actually finished the, the African railroad or not, but. Yeah, that was the Seasel road's big, that was his big ambition, you know, and in some ways, roads, Rhodes kind of reminds me of blackjack Pershing in some ways. I mean, I think, I mean, obviously, Rhodes is more, Rhodes is of a certain type.

He was one of these, he was one of these kinds of imperialist characters that came up through the crown charter system of wealth management and adventurism. I mean, Pershing was very much, you know, like kind of a logistics and engineering genius. and a very effective combat commander but yeah these guys are really extraordinary in terms of their in terms of their intellect

well and that that leads us to I if he hadn't had died in an untimely fashion um I don't know what your personal opinion of Fritz Todd is Thomas

but I am a massive admirer of Toot personally um Dr. Tolley. He and Helmarshot. Helmar shocked is a reason why the UK delegation to the International Military Tribunal basically intervened and said, you're going to cut this man loose because we need him. You know, Toad was much more a patriot than Shocked was, but Toad and Helmar shocked were responsible for,

the economy of the German Reich becoming what it was in terms of such that such that centrally planned efforts I mean all banking systems are going to be somewhat centralized okay I mean like that that's not an ethical question it's a it's just a reality but yeah I think they're they're both personages who are essential understanding the the economics of the German Reich and They were both, you know, towering in elects in different aspects of macroeconomic praxis, definitely. So for those of you who don't know, Dr. Fritz-Tot was the head of organization Tote, which was the, and please, Thomas, correct my pronunciation because I'm terrible, this sort of thing.

He was succeeded by Albert Speer, who was the guy who designed the Volkshall, but ultimately turned to Trader and after the war and I have a low opinion of that. Anyway, Dr. Tote goes to you know, technically University of Munich and gets a PhD in civil engineering on, on effectively paving roads. And he is the one who's responsible for the Audubon, for the Atlantic Wall, for honestly most of the Third Reich's construction projects he was the Inspector General for Water and Energy

the Reich's Minister for Armaments, munitions I mean, ready for huge savings will mark your calendars from November 28th to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back we're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear from home essentials to season must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast.

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Coopera. Design that moves. Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Discover five-star luxury at Trump Dunebeg. Unwind in our luxurious spa. Save her sumptuous farm-fresh dining. Relax. in our exquisite accommodations. Step outside and be captivated by the wild Atlantic surrounds.

Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dunebeg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Doonbiog, Kush Farage. Yeah, that was the key, that's what, I mean, the key really played was as armaments minister, you know in terms of the war effort and and um some of these projects that were essential to national defense to be clear with the autobahn too at um this kind of mass highway system i raised pershing because uh you know pershing was um eisenhower was a disciple of pershing and that's

basically where he inherited the idea for what became the interstate system and like a mass highway system, among other things, on a continent-sized scale, you needed to be able to deploy forces in being an event of general war. And that was one of the reasons for the, you know, the Eisenhower expressway system, you know, is that you can deploy east and west rapidly. And the Autobahn, obviously, when a Reich commissariat, Moskivan, was realized. you know, had the Soviet Union been defeated and assimilated into the greater German Reich, you know, the, um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the bond was going to go from Spain to the earls, you know, um, probably so even by call, really. I mean, why not, why not? Why not

Vladovostok? No, I think it's, no, go ahead. It's important to, to realize that, like, the, the U.S. interstate system is is directly Eisenhower got to Europe, got to Germany, and was like, wow, these roads are fantastic. And basically just stole the plans. And the early days of World War I with all the mobilizations and all the difficulties and the logistical problems, right, of feeding people were so ingrained in the German people that they just didn't want that sort of thing to happen again. And by building this network of really good highways, you could distribute the food,

you know, if one section's bombed out, you can rebuild that and route the food around. So the problem with rail is it's way more efficient in terms of how much energies needed to move, you know, a ton of stuff from point A to point B. but you mess that one switching yard or that one trackup and you know the line is is cut whereas a road network is more yeah compatibility too of the rail gauge and stuff causes issues i just wanted to it seem a real quick too i've got almost nothing nice to say about spear but some of his design concepts i think were pretty brilliant. And one of the things he insisted upon and that the fear very much approved of, locally, Spears said that, you know, we need to source materials locally as much as possible

in building the Autobahn. You know, so, and we need to incorporate natural features into things like bridges. So, you know, like in a section of the Autobahn that, you know, like stretches just through the Rhineland or whatever is, you know, going to reflect the natural environment there and like a local ecology, you know, like ditto for, you know, East Prussia and what have you. And a lot of these, this had really great optics, you know, and that can't really, as an imperative priority to the German Reich at, you know, the highest levels. can't be overstated i mean hitler was an artist that's one of the things he had in common was spear i mean um yeah hitler's primary interest was architecture and things you know and spier obviously he was kind of a pure architect i mean he had he had keep i mean i stipulate he had capabilities you know um that were remarkable as an architect he was a genius um yeah yeah

as a political soldier he he left a fair bit wanting he was a cynic i mean i think he Speer's the kind of guy who you know he he finds a way to insinuate himself around powerful men and impress them and he doesn't care about the politics and he will do an about face

as soon as it becomes expedient to do so you know which he did yeah so Dr. Tutt right he dies in a plane crash he himself won the Iron Cross

under the German Empire in the First World War. But the internal road network of Germany, I mean, they're still using the same Audubon that Fritz-Tot built in like 1938, right? And not only was it a massive internal improvement project, but it's one of the ways that, you know, that the Reich was able to, um, to kill unemployment in the Reich was just, they didn't have trucks. You know, I mean, the SS was invading Germany, or not invading Germany invading Russia with mules and stuff because they didn't have enough trucks. Well, because they didn't have the earth moving equipment, because they didn't have, uh, enough trucks.

a lot of this construction got done by hand right and you had large gangs of laborers that were relatively low-skilled but they get told like dig this out till it you know this this slope matches here and you could you could have lots of guys using picks and shovels and stuff and you can build this road network internally that enabled you know the germans to shift entire divisions from east to west relatively quickly. And in terms of building the German economy, right, if your, if your shipping costs go down by, I saw something by the time they were done, taking something from the port at Hamburg to Munich, the cost had dropped by like something like 25%, I want to say.

but that could just be so that's tickling the back of my brain but if you're if your costs of going from Hamburg to me go that far down right that's that's obviously a massive um just go to the internal economy right there's going to be more jobs um once you if you're no longer working on like the tote gang right or you maybe you take those construction skills you learned building they the uh building the roads two other projects which is what how they ended up with the the Atlantic wall and you know like the channel

islands forts and all of these other interoperate line yeah yeah the sick free line right like much later yeah but but right you have all these experienced personnel and we know before the call we were talking right the notion that like um oh, it's socialism. They're using the government to build all these projects. Does anybody really think that like a Bechtel or a Conoco

Phillips or a GM or really a private company? Well, it's also the whole point, I mean, the reason why the reason why the one thing that the Warsaw Pact excelled at was military hardware, you know, and things like space-faring vehicles is because obviously, like, the spontaneous ordering of the price mechanism isn't essential to, like, building a good tank. And you don't require, I mean, I don't even know what those inputs would be, like, we're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to accept bids on who can, like, build the best auto bond, and then we're going to take a hands-off approach, however they want to devise it.

I mean, like I, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. And all, all capitalism in the industrial era is state capitalism. So yeah, it's another here or there to suggest that there's this like public, private distinction. We're talking about fixed capital, definitely. I think that as you built, right, your complete, for the complete, there is no such thing as like, particularly things like roads or canals or anything like that right like the notion that like oh this is a private enterprise like no it's not it's not it's it's one of those things that the libertarians get completely completely wrong the free market is going to build you know this this highway system something you talked about earlier thomas is is the aesthetics right um i have a quote from from

hitler somewhere from i think it's from uh the book hitler's engineers but he said, you know, our roads have to be beautiful and as, as they reflect us as a people. And I'm paraphrasing here. The, the Audubon as envisioned by Hitler and Tote reflects that German artistic soul that's very ordered, but also has this kind of longing for beautiful things. Yeah, that spontaneous harmony. Yeah, yeah. But the interstate highway system in America, particularly as you get west of the Mississippi, is the most brutal utilitarian, like, just like massive project you've ever seen in your life, right?

Yeah, Route 94 through Shytown is not beautiful. Right. Well, and the reason it's not, right, is because the Reich was using mostly hand labor and what, what electric explosives they did have had to be saved either for wartime or for something where um like you're blowing a hole a tunnel or something right or for clearing canal so they just didn't have the you know the massive amount of explosive and the personnel to use it just willy-nilly the way they're really fancied at me there's this book called hitler the power of aesthetics by this guy named Frederick Spatz.

And Speer designed and built a lot of these projects with an eye for what was called ruin value. And that's why the Germans had certain ideas about, you know, discrete building materials like feral concrete. Because the ethos was, we've got to think about 3,000 years from now. you know we've got we we we've got to have uh our great works leave ruins you know like um that of uh the valley the kings in cairo or um like the parthenon or like the coliseum you know uh this is a deliberately historical enterprise that spans millennia you know um and that's that

underlies you know very much like the ethos of the rike and i find that very compelling yeah it it does And just to give you an idea of why that's actually better to, to elaborate here for a second. So the United States after 1947, right, has effectively what is unlimited manpower, unlimited expertise, unlimited resources. And so they build out the federal highway system. And they just make it straight because that's the most efficient. And if there's a little hill in the way, they'll just throw a bunch of dynamite they've got a bunch of guys who did demo in the war they can absolutely

you know just just blast so you'll have you know sections of of road in the united states that are five 10 15 20 miles long just in a straight line and as you're driving across like north dakota no offense intended to any of our listeners in north dakota it gets really hard to pay attention when you're like just going 20 miles straight, right? Even even at 80 miles. It's tailored for highway hypnosis. Exactly right. So because the Germans didn't have all that access to easy blasting path,

they had to, roads have to follow the path that is most flat, relatively speaking. And so if you've got to go like and make a slight curve to the left or you know, gently kind of rise and follow the terrain a little bit more. That's actually makes a better drive. You don't,

you don't do things like fall asleep the way you can. Like, you know, if you're driving from I-90 from like Chaitown to, you know, Seattle, right? There's places where you're just going to fall asleep because there's nothing.

We realize, too, like if you like automobiles and, you know, I always, I mean, I don't drive these days, but, you know, I was really like, I was really like driving and cars and stuff when I was young, you know, like driving them and working on them. And the, you know, all these Carol Shelby designs, you know, that were grand touring designated vehicles. You know, like a touring vehicle, I realized like Ford and all kinds of other American companies took on that designation, but it doesn't make any sense in America. Maybe it doesn't like Redwood country somewhat, but, you know, driving a Porsche, like around these, like,

around these like winding roads through bavaria or like through the elves you know it's a totally different experience right yeah i would like the only places in america where like a gt type car makes sense is like on the pacific coast highway or something like yeah and i've been yeah and i've driven um not just one oh one of one but i've driven these mountain roads through like Oregon you know which are like incredible so then so don't be wrong like america and being at the wheel of a you know like a like a comfortable um um like big block you know catac or something um oh it's uh it's uh yeah it's dope what uh it um but it's not at all the same thing as you know the european experience and even um there's uh this footage like over salzburg you know eagles nest and stuff

you know like that's a perfect example and um there's uh there's a footage of uh uh what amounts to you know they kind of work what became kind of the war council um but broushich had been sacked but this just had to be like

at the latest like very early in 1940s you know like convening it over Salzburg and you see like these you know you see these these like stately vehicles like pulling up and it just looks like an incredible drive like looks like something from another planet or something oh yeah could you even imagine like in a

um like the Mercedes S.K. And, uh, you're driving from Frankfurt on Maine up to Vienna in like one of those bad boys, you know, they're just the, just the, just the aesthetic experience. But because, because they didn't have that ability to just blast straight through, right? The road actually doesn't do the role. Road has noticed this thing where you're going to fall asleep because there's just nothing to do and nothing to, I've driven through like South Dakota and, you know, like you've got to have, you got to have somebody like sitting with you to like punch you in the arm so that

you don't end up driving off the road you know no it's crazy you know i take the ground so much i see a lot of like american highways you know and uh yeah they're very flat it's crazy too when you get out west like the hills the foothills and some of the smaller mountains they just like blast these huge tunnels through them and when i was a little kid that really like zoned me out because they don't have that here in chicago but i'd be out in california and it's like yeah you're just like driving through this mountain tunnel for like freaking you know like 45 minutes yeah or you know

driving through this tunnel on the Rockies right that is two miles long you know but but that's that's something that um is I think by by

caring about the aesthetics by making sure that everyone had to have something beautiful to be able to look at something that they can be proud of Um, it really, uh, you know, you can not only, not only people more likely to maintain it, but it ultimately ends up being easier to maintain because you're not fighting nature all the time. You know, you can drive nature out with the pitch for it because the thing goes, but it always comes back. So how do you, if the, uh, if the, if the,

road itself, like, is part of the nature. It's not as difficult to constantly be fighting nature to get the road accomplished. Oh, yeah, no, 100%. I mean, I'm expressing myself poorly because I'm retarded. But, and by making that something that is the most important thing as you're doing it, do those beautiful roads not only become more likely to be maintained and more likely to function longer, they also become an advertisement. And this is, this is why, I mean, ultimately, this is, this is why the right guy to be destroyed, right?

Is that just allowing them to be free was an advertisement against a capitalist system. Well, yeah, it was a totally different. ethos on potentialities and it transcended conventional politics you know i mean in like in some ways like the shalinist did too and i mean i think soviet cosmism is sort of a callback to that um sort of transcendental mysticism of of uh byzantium stuff but no i mean but that that was somewhat incidental obviously and it was a dialectical process that very much sort of deviated from the core ethos of marxist linoism but no the something that the the fascist the national socialist access europe was disposed towards as an essential aspect of

the politics of the era and specifically the revolutionary mandate that they were abiding was you know something that uh was epochal in nature and purely historical almost and was a you know partook of the highest possible forms of human action and cultural productivity absolutely well that i think that something else that that that needs to be i think i've talked about this like the entire world changed like in you know in in um the rome of like comitus right like after the period of five good emperors you know marcus arrelius even then most of the population was still agricultural peasants and you could take an agricultural peasant from the time of of marcus arrelius and there's been some very very good

alternative history time you know time travel type stuff like you could take someone like that and take them to the world of say, I don't know what point the break would be. Like the 1860s, and aside from like firearms, like most of everything is like readily apparent and still even into the 1860s of the war between the states. Most of the people in the world are agricultural peasants. But, you know, in the Psalm in 1915 and the, you know,

Waterloo in 1815, like the, world changed so completely in that 100 years that nothing was the same afterwards. And the national socialists, the fascist, whatever, like, that, that organization, those, that aesthetic idea was like those were the, of the three choices or three ways to confront that massive change, where there was Bolsheviks, there is Judeo-Masonic capitalism, And then there was this, this national, you know, organic, aesthetic romantic nationalism. I don't know how else to describe it. But of all those three, no one is going to care about like if, you know, if the United States government falls apart, no one's going to care about like I-90 in a hundred years.

Or like, or yeah, exactly. Or like some random federal building, you know, downtown. The a film that I like, you know, this seems crazy now, but HBO actually used to make really good original movies. Like they made this film about Andre Chickatilla, the Soviet serial killer, called Citizen X with Donald Sutherland. It's one of my favorite movies. Yeah, it's dope. They made this, did this biopic of Stalin with Robert Duvall. they did a film version of Fatherland

the alternative history counterfactual where the German Reich is victorious in World War II and you know there's in the film it's the German Reich's preparing for Hitler's 75th birthday celebrations

Joe Kennedy is the president Joe Kennedy is trying to end the cold war that exists between America and the Reich but it opens in the year in 1964 and this American delegation is touring Berlin which is now you know the the European like the capital of nation Europa called Germania and it's a combination of early CGI and Matt's paintings but it looks really cool and the centerpiece is the folks hall which would have held a hundred and eighty thousand people. Hitler would have been able to access it from what would have been the Fuhrer's palace

by way of an underground access road and he would emerge by elevator behind the podium. And the folks hall would have been so massive that it would have had its own weather inside. Clouds would have formed. And um, it would have, It speculated that it would have occasionally rained within the dome. Like stuff like that is, uh, yeah, the, the best thing,

um, Amazon has ever done is, um, they did the, the Philip K. Dick man in a high castle, right? Yeah,

the show is silly, but the optics are brilliant. Yeah, yeah. Like, I've appropriated the flag that they utilize for some of my own purposes, because it's that good. Oh,

the aesthetics were on point. But to give you, Just a, here's, here's a quote from that, the book I mentioned, Hitler's, Hitler's engineers, Fritz Todd and Albert Speer, Master Builders of the Third Reich. Tot started developing detailed plans in July 1933, keeping Hitler closely abreastly developments. And then, interquote, although the entire road plan was Hitler's, and although he took the first step in organization of the plan, he allowed the general inspector and his staff that is taught to make all decisions.

He considered a good policy to be in agreement with those in daily contact with the problems of highway construction. He did, however, offer suggestions when the problems were brought to him. The bridge symbolized the fear's approach to construction. He is concerned with beauty and appearance, but the primary goal is durability. As he has often stated, quote, we must build. What we build must stand long after we're no longer here, unquote. So, you know, do you build a society that is concerned with the future and with aesthetics? and, you know, Tucker Carlson's talked about this a little bit, like, but, but the people who

build ugly stuff in America's cities hate you. They don't care about you. You know, if they build, you know, people who build ugly stuff for you, they're telling you they don't care about you. They're telling you that your kids don't deserve to have beautiful things in their lives. when you it's also the yeah and I the concept of the geography of nowhere

you know and because I'm not because I don't drive I'm always on foot and thankfully you know Chicago is one of the few places you can live and not have a car because there's public transportation everywhere and one of the reasons I like it

here is because there's a lot of dedicated nature preserves and things but like most of this country it's just built up ugliness and like you can't be a pedestrian in a lot of places because there's nowhere

if you to walk and you know architecture and the design of living spaces it physically dictates your movements you know so there's that and yeah

if you live amidst totally ugly surroundings you know, it beats you down psychologically. You know, like I, when I get out west and I'm not trash and people live in the West suburbs, like West of Oak Park and stuff, you start, when you get far enough away from, like, Cook County, it becomes like geography in nowhere. It's like these, like, inless flat highways.

And you've just passed like Buffalo Wild Wings and, like, Target and these, like, Walmart. Yeah. Old Camar. See, I know. I mean, yeah, it's awful, man. Yeah. I've talked about Jim Kunstler's, you know, geography, nowhere a ton.

Because it's really important, actually, that, you know, Chicago is the, the last city, like, the furthest west city where you could actually live like a European-style city. There's a really good book. William E. Cronin Nature's Metropolis about Chicago. You should check it out if you get a chance about the development of Chicago. But if a society that cares about itself and cares about its future is going to build things that make that society stronger internally and a better place to be. And I think that, you know, what have we built? You know, I've been a political adult basically since 9-11.

What has the United States built in the last? 25 years that you can say that that's going to that's going to matter in 50 years yeah it's um i can't think of a thing i can't i literally cannot think of a single thing the united states no and even um even these like dedicated monuments where you have you know people who at least have some rudimentary idea of aesthetical sophistication and you know how things should be harmoniously devised you know, to kind of comport with the natural features of the setting in which it's situated.

Like a lot of the stuff just looks bad. You know, like I... When I was in D.C. last, you know, I went by the World War II Memorial, which I thought was kind of tacky anyway because the Iwogee Memorial is the World War II Memorial, if there is one. And there's nothing, like, patently offensive about it,

But it just looks bad. It's something that's like tacky about it. It's just aesthetically not well done. Yeah. And it's just like totally unremarkable. Yeah. You know, no, the only. There's some beautiful architecture here.

And that's kind of my reference point for America. I mean, stuff like Mount Rushmore is fascinating. You know, but yeah, you'd think that especially because you think that especially in the years immediately after the Cold War, That would have been like a priority, you know, not in some crude triumphalist way, but, you know, kind of America saying, you know, we defeated the communist enemy. You know, now sort of culture can reign of an elevated sort that we're the standard barrier up. Like, whether that's true or not isn't the point. You'd think there'd be that impetus and that sort of desire, even if it's exploited for reasons of political expediency in ways that are somewhat impure of motive. but there was none of that.

Yeah, like, where was the great symphony to celebrate like the end of the Cold War and like the triumph of freedom? Yeah. Or a great, a great opera or something like that. Yeah. There's nothing. No, there's only, there was only like

an not particularly good song by the Scorpions. And I mean, obviously they were like from the Bluebist Republic. Yeah. I mean, winds of change is a banger. Like, I'm not going to not going to knock it, you know. terms of what it is it's great but like yeah there's there's no and you know Hitler was a pretty talented draftsman himself but yeah he was great um the the built environment like if if if you build a beautiful built environment it's it's no it's no coincidence that like Mozart and the

Strauss family and like how many great composers like spent all their their great time in Vienna. No, and yeah, that's why, and that's why people gravitate towards Prague these days, because Prague partakes that same sort of Habsburg, Baroque beauty. Like, I'm always telling people, one of my destinations, if I happen upon a time machine, would be Habsburg, Vienna, because, I mean, I'm very, very Protestant, you know, like, but I find myself taken in by that kind of Baroque grandiosity, you know, as much as a Roman Catholic person would be, man. Like, it's just incredible. Right.

But, but the reason, the reason Vienna produced so many, including, you know, our chancellor, right? Like, all of these people were inspired by the beauty that was everywhere around them in Vienna. Oh, 100%. Right. Yeah, Joseph Schumpeter made that point, too. I mean, he was, you know, you don't associate economists with the same sort of creative, aesthetic endeavors, but, you know, it's, but it's, everybody who came out of that milieu was, you know, shaped by it in terms of their, you know, habits and the conventions they gravitated

to and, you know, the, the things that drew inspiration from. Sure. You know, and, yeah, that's what great civilizations are made of, is those, you know, sorts of those sorts of uh you know aspects and it's funny because i like in preparation for this episode and just in general right you know i've i've tried to find everything i can in english about this pro this movement of construction and infrastructure and right and i can't find anything in English that doesn't just attack

right attack the third Reich. There's nothing out there. I mean, maybe you know Thomas, maybe we've got like a book from 1946 or something that it might have and if you do like DM me later. But, um, well, yeah, you can't, you can't take this stuff seriously. It's the same as there'll be some like middling college professor

from some fourth rate university like, talking about how Hitler was a loser. It's the same thing. It's like, it's like, okay, bro like I the guy conquered um Europe from France the gates of Moscow defeated the British army defeated the French army conquered Poland conquered Czechoslovakia conquered the low countries stop the American army dead in its tracks but he's like a loser compared he's a quote-go loser compared to some middling college professor okay like you can't you can't I mean it's so preposterous that

It's it's like some hobo waving about it as Kurt Narod declaring he's the emperor of the universe. I expect you to take it seriously or something. Like you're all beneath me. And Joseph Stalin, right? Like, I don't think people, I mean, I've talked about this enough so that people would know, or certainly this audience is well-educated enough to know this. But the Iranians are not pro-American because American trucks and American bullets were given to British and Soviet bullets were given to British and Soviet. soldiers in 1941 to invade their country from four different places.

Yeah. Right. So that they could secure the Persian supply route, which supplied 45 divisions worth of troops to the Soviet Union. The United States sent 10,000 aircraft from like Montana up through Canada, through Alaska, all the way across Siberia. We're talking like, we're talking like a third of the way around the world. Yeah, it's insane.

And in addition to like, you know, constant convoy. over the North Atlantic to like the white sea and the worst ocean in the world and we just lost tons of shipping and uh you know that right and if it hadn't been for that kind of heroic effort you know the service would have lost a war they say themselves that that that's why they would have lost the war well yeah that's why you know i mean i it uh i'm supposed to listen to some supposed to listen to some fourth-rate self-styled propagandist tell me that I'm a bad person because I won't accept it was an absolute moral imperative to exterminate Western civilization and alliance with the communists. I mean, like I, I, I, I, these people are beneath me.

Yeah, Thomas, you don't support supporting the communists, you hate freedom. Yeah, and like I If I don't go if I don't hate Moslems for no reason If I don't hate my fellow Christians in Palestine And go around pretending that I'm Jewish I'm a bad person Yeah, that's well I was only

I was always under the impression people acted that way We're mentally ill But I apparently like no They're they're they're just really really Bursting with with moral integrity And I'm like I'm just like a bad person Yeah No, it's absolutely true, right?

And I mean, we can talk about it. I don't go to parades either where guys like pee on each other and stuff, like apparently you're supposed to do in June. You know, like that, you know, and I do things like honoring like, you know, the heroes of my own race instead of like going to like pee parades. How dare you, Thomas? How dare you? You know, the, the, the, I suppose we can talk about this just a little bit, you know,

a year later, right? The, the Trump skeptical. um, anti-Jewish people have been completely vindicated. You know, like there's, I only want to bring this up because, um,

the, the only salient, and this is something I got from you, Thomas, so I'm going to just steal it, right? The only salient political conflict in the world today is Zionist versus everybody else.

Like those are the, those are your options. You're either on team Zionist, you're on team like civilization. And it's the same. conflict in 1941, it's the same conflict today. Like, you're on Team Zionist or you're on Team Civilization. Those are your, those are your teams. You know, like Charles and I's always used to tell each other, like, it's always January 1936 in Spain. Like, you got two teams. You got teams.

Yeah, the thing that's surprising about Trump. I mean, I, I never had any illusions about Trump or I thought he was a good guy. The way in which he crashed out kind of supported. surprised me because it was really really stupid and he continued to kind of cook himself in the court of public opinion when he doesn't have to he's become I think he's slipping mentally yeah you'd think a narcissist would have more self-respect you know well he also trumps a master of manipulating the psychological environment I mean it's really that that's really how he's gotten to where he is and it's like he totally took leave of you know, his, his, is, uh, Machiavellian sensibilities as well as his instincts for how to

proceed an index with the media cycle. It's, he's been doing incredibly dumb things. And, I mean, not to derail us. I gotta raise up in a minute, too. It's hard to be abrupt. I got like 10 minutes, but the, um, you know, the way he handled this Epstein matter was just incredibly stupid. You know, it's not like he got, it's not like he got murked because he got put on the spot and, you know, didn't really see a way out so you know he kind of he kind of issued some he kind of made a declaration he couldn't deliver on to get you know a um a hostile interrogative media off his back and then he came back to bite him it was like nothing like that just he's just doing dumb shit you know um and the the way he's responded you know he could have uh he could have basically

placated his masters well at the same time put on of errors like he was you know demanding that you know you was sovereignty be respective vis-a-vis Israel and he did the opposite you know it's like what the hell's wrong with you like you especially considering the current environment conceptually in the way people feel about Israel that that was about the dumbest possible thing you could do but um I that's a subject for another day forgive me and um yeah forgive me for being abrupt I um I um we can we can reconvene and continue this subject matter if you guys want to I mean obviously

I'm sure you guys are going to continue with it but oh oh I'll rejoin you guys at a later date if you want to continue this subject any anytime you want to talk about whatever you want to talk about Thomas I'm always happy to listen you know I'm if you got to rise up that's no you should um I'm doing this series now with the world at war guys Nick and Adam which is great I'm very blessed they wanted to include me but I You know, I also, we put like Pete and I with a couple other guys, you know, we do the Inquisition Pod. Oh, you should, you should, yeah, you should, you should, you should dip in there sometime, man. Anytime I'm, I'm a big fan of Astros and Nick of that, I've been an old friend's of mine for years, you know.

Yeah, no, he's a great dude. Okay, yeah, you're aware of it. Oh, yeah. But that, yeah, I'll be in touch, and I'm always, at long last, I'm going to start. start, I'm going to start live streaming on the regular. And it would help if you'd be willing to collab with me on that sometimes, too. You call it. You call and I'll jump on, man. Get my phone number from Pete, man.

And, like, shoot me a text in the next couple days. And just like identify yourself when you do. And yeah, we'll talk about it over text. if that's cool. That's fine. Yeah. And let's, let's close, let's close this one down then. That sounds good. All right.

So Thomas, get plugs. Yeah. You can find me. I run a charity for autistic LGBTQ children. No, I don't do that. That's my live stream. You can find me at, Thomas 777.com.

It's number 7, HMES, 777.com. And my substack is where I direct people to as well, because that's where my podcast is. A lot of my long form writing, and we got a very active chat there. It's real Thomas 777.7.7.com. And as I kind of restructure my content,

I, though I'm active on those two platforms every day. So go there and you shall find. D.E. Well, I have my own show, a fundamental principle. It's also on substack. I got to give a strong recommend

to following Thomas's Telegram and his substack. I follow all of them. And, of course, everything, Pete Canona is, you know, give Pete money, listen to his shows, do his live streams, you know, get your out through OGC.

Support the people to support you, you know. you're given you're given you know what amounts to do 300 or 400 level college lectures by Thomas and Pete or by you know Dr. Johnson and Pete or you know Pete he enables so much stuff to good things to happen and he works really hard behind the scenes that you don't see and he helps people all the time so um you know the the stuff that Pete does in front of the camera is only a portion of the hard work he puts in and on top of all that he's like a really great friend so please you know support the people that that don't hate you yeah well soon I appreciate that. All right, gentlemen. Have a good evening.

Thank you.