The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1242: 'Israel is a Crusader State' w/ William S. Lind

Episode Date: July 20, 2025

75 MinutesSFWWilliam S. Lind is a paleoconservative author and proponent of Fourth-Generation Warfare Theory. He has served has a legislative aide for various senators, was the Director of the Center for Cultural Conservatism at the Free Congress Foundation and has written numerous articles and monographs for journals such as the Marine Corps Gazette and The American Conservative. Lind has written several books ranging from political commentary to fiction.Pete invited John Fieldhouse to co-host an interview with William S. Lind. They talk about Trump's performance so far and a host of topics relating to today's military and international affairs.traditionalRIGHTVictoria: A Novel of 4th Generation WarMr. Lind at The American ConservativeThe New Maneuver Warfare Handbook (Special Tactics Institute)Other of Mr Lind's BooksPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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How are you done, Mr. I'm doing well. Life in Cleveland is good. Good, good. All right. So the last time you were on, we said that we try to have you on for Trump's 100 days in. And it's probably getting closer to 200 now. But, you know, there's still stuff to talk about. So close enough for government. Yeah, well, pretty much. Why don't you just launch it and tell us what you think of the Trump administration. so far? Well, there's one thing that President Trump has done is of transcendent importance, and I don't think people understand how important it is. He has shown that you can defy and indeed attack cultural Marxism. He's got it on the run. His administration, in every one of its cabinet departments, is going through and ripping out the cultural market. infrastructure that the Biden administration put in.

And of course, Biden himself was pretty much a puppet of the cultural Marxists in his administration. He didn't know what he was doing and saying most of the time. He wasn't himself a cultural Marxist. I knew him slightly from when I was U.S. Senate staff. But he was pretty much an empty vessel that got emptier over time. So they just used his administration to ram this stuff, also known as Woke and D.E. and political correctness, but it's all actually the cultural Marxism of the Frankfurt School to ram this through government. And Trump has been taking this on directly, not secretly,

not apologizing, et cetera, taking it on frontally, taking it on directly and beating it. And this example is spreading here in Ohio. The legislature just passed a bill. The governor signed it. Demanding things like diversity of viewpoint in all states. funded universities and colleges. Of course, diversity, as the cultural Marxist use the term, does not include diversity of viewpoints. They are going through the universities demanding they take out all the DEI crap, everything that smacks of cultural Marxism. So this is a revolution. And the reason I say it's a transcendental important is by doing this, Trump is getting the United States, off the path

for the fourth generation war. The resistance to cultural Marxism in the heartland has been building now for quite some time. And it's been reaching the point where people are saying, at a certain point, we're going to have to fight, meaning

I mean, real fighting with guns. And that future has now been sidetracked. Because nobody wants to start a fourth generation war in this country to fight something that's already being beaten. If our choice was to have our kids endlessly conditioned to be good cultural Marxists, then yes, we were going to fight. But that's no longer the case. And because almost nobody in Washington

understands fourth generation war, which is war waged by non-state entities that brings about, both results from and brings about the collapse of states, there's no appreciation of how important it is that Trump has gone after this and gone after it successfully. Again, he's walked up to the great clay idol political correctness that the natives are worshipping in terror and broken off its notes and shown everybody that yes, you can defy this and get away. with it. So that's, as I say, that's his most important achievement. Obviously, in other matters, closing the southern border show, yes, it's true. You can control the border. The statements, oh, you can't possibly control it were complete nonsense. It was left open because the Biden administration

wanted it left open. The cultural Marxists will do anything in their power to destroy traditional Western culture and any country that exemplifies it. So inundating it, and of course it's been much worse in Europe because the immigrants have been Muslim here, at least most of them are Christian. Inundating a country in people from another culture is a good way to destroy the culture that's already there. Invasion by immigration is more dangerous, not less than invasion by a foreign army because eventually a foreign army goes home. But the immigrants stay. And unless they're acculturated successfully, they permanently change the cultural landscape in the country they've invaded. And that's, again, Europe's situation is much more dire than ours,

because the immigrants are Muslim and they're not there to become either Christian or part of a secular society. They're there to make Europe Muslim, whether it wants to be or not. So, again, a very important achievement. He has failed completely in the area of control. controlling the deficit and the debt. We are heading for a massive international debt and international debt and financial crisis that could easily rival the Great Depression. In his defense, I'll say this can only be dealt with on a bipartisan basis, and at present nothing is possible in Washington on a bipartisan basis, nothing of significance. he's sold out his base to at least some extent on foreign policy.

We didn't vote for a bombing mission against Iran. He seems to have gotten away with it. Iran's not in a position right now to retaliate. But this wasn't why he was elected. He was elected to keep us out of foreign wars. We're now getting more deeply involved with Ukraine. He was elected to get us out of that. the whole U.S. military is orienting on China.

You know, Russia and China are nuclear powers. You're playing games here with the possibility of losing cities with millions of Americans in them. Again, this isn't what he was elected to do. So on foreign policy, I did a column for traditional right not too long ago asking the question, is he being co-opted by the neocons? And unfortunately, there's increasing evidence that that is the case. So as with all presidents, it's a mixed bag, but the one transcendent achievement of President Trump that justifies all the support most of us gave him in the election is by showing you can

defy and defeat cultural Marxism, he's gotten the country off the road to fourth generation war. And that is a transcendental importance because it would mean the end of America. Mr. Fieldhouse, do you have anything? I think I agree with basically all of your points, sir. And yeah, I definitely, I'd have to echo the part you said about the need. What Trump was essentially elected for was to stop us from getting into wars. And as you said, every faction wants to get us involved in some war,

whether it's Iran in support of Israel or it's this absurd idea, we're going to fight a land war simultaneously with both the PRC and Russia, which, as you said, have nuclear weapons and can actually destroy. us. We need adults in the room and adults who understand real power politics, understand you shouldn't deal with problems that can cause grievous harm to you, sir. The Ukraine situation, there's a very Bismarckian solution, and that is the U.S. and Russia make an agreement. Ukraine is left sitting in the hallway to find out what's going to happen to it. That's how Bismarck and the great powers of the time operated. And the deal is Russia gets

Crimea. It gets the Donbos and it gets a corridor connecting the two. But Ukraine gets compensation. This was one of the principles of 19th century European diplomacy. Russia cedes Russian-held east Prussia to Ukraine and builds a heavy hall railroad connecting West Ukraine to the port of Kinnigspark on the Baltic. So what Ukraine would get out of it would be not only a second port through which to export its grain, but a second seat that is now completely under NATO control since Finland and Sweden joined NATO. And Russia would have to buy the territories that Ukraine ceded. And it's obviously they're not going to come cheap. Buying territory, we've done it ourselves, we bought the Louisiana purchase. We bought Alaska.

this was again a normal part of adjusting boundaries in earlier traditional great power diplomacy. But the key is the only way this war is going to be solved is if Russia and the United States sit down and come up with the solution and inform everybody else what's going to happen. Simple as that. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November.

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because Russia is Russia. These are the same countries that wouldn't contribute enough to their own national defense as members of NATO, but suddenly they'll donate three or spend three times as much for Ukraine. I got you off, sir. Well, I think, first of all, there's no understanding along these lines between the U.S. and Russia. Could one argue that this is what is de facto happening slightly? But Europe isn't paying a terribly high price for all of this.

No European soldiers are dying. European cities are not being attacked. The Europeans have got the money to increase their sales of their purchases of U.S. weapons. to go on to Ukraine. In fact, President Trump just announced specifically a deal to do that. This business where they've said we're all going to bring our defense spending up to 5%. If you look at how they're defining it, no, that's not what's going to happen. But it might bring it up to between 2 and 3%. They can handle that. And with their industrial economies on the ropes, particularly

Germany, rearmament is a way to boost their own economies, producing tanks, producing weapons. I mean, it's exactly what Germany did in the 30s to create full employment. So I think that that would be reading a little too much into the situation, but there's no question in my mind that Trump is telling the Europeans, okay, it's time you'll be weaned. You've been bottle fed now for how long? 75 years. When we first joined NATO, General Eisenhower, not yet president, that if we're still in this 10 years from now, it will have been a huge mistake. Well, it's now three quarters of a century. And so, yes, it's time for the baby to have his bottle be taken away and he'd be given real food. And Europe is entirely capable of defending itself. It has been ever since the French, under Charles de Gaulle, developed its own nuclear force. We didn't understand, and again, remember I was working in these areas in Washington and nobody there understood, that the Soviet Union situation was not a mirror

of ours. They faced three independent hostile nuclear powers, France, China, and the United States. If they invaded Europe and got into a nuclear war with France and lost the ten largest cities in the Soviet Union, where would the Soviet Union be as a power relative to China and the United States, both of which would have been untouched? So by the time you had the French nuclear deterrent, essentially the idea of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe was off the table. But we generated exactly what Eisenhower later warned about, the military industrial congressional complex. That was his original phrase. Sherman Adams got him to take congressional out because he said, he'd just make problems with the hell.

But that's what it is. And it was determined to keep the money flowing. It's doing the same thing now with China, puffing the dragon, as I call it. But there's a good reason why nuclear powers don't fight conventional wars with each other, as the U.S. and the Soviet Union were very careful not to do during the Cold War.

Because you're quickly on the escalatory ladder. Whoever's losing conventionally is facing enormous political pressure to redeem their situation by going nuclear. So the whole notion of conventional wars with Russia or China is complete talking about. You have something, Mr. Fieldhouse? I don't. No, I agree with all points so far, sir.

Okay, good. Then I'm going to hit some of the questions we have here. A friend of mine wanted to ask, you said, do you, and he's not saying this in an insulting way. Do you believe that your book, Victoria, stands up today, especially because you made a slightly disparaging reference to Trump in it? Well, at the time, no one anticipated that Mr. Trump would put his substantial talents and fortune toward public service. It looked like he was just going to be another rich guy who likes to have fun. and we didn't consider that as a terribly good example of cultural conservatism.

The Victoria, of course, which is said in the future, is the novel that lays out the breakup of the United States into fourth generation war. And as I just said, Trump's biggest achievement, which nobody gets, is that he has gotten us off that road by showing that it is possible to defy and defeat cultural Marxism, without having to physically go to war at the expense of breaking up the country. So I would say I'm very thankful at the moment that we are off the road laid out in Victoria. But that's only for four years.

And we don't know what's going to come after him. The cultural Marxists believe in this crap deeply. And they're not going to give up. They're not going to go away. So they will attempt to make a comeback. And if the Democrats come back for probably not, no reasons connected to culture, but because the debt and financial crisis hits on Trump's watch, it won't be his fault any more than the Great Depression was Herbert Hoover's fault,

but he will be given the ugly baby just as Hoover was. And they will bring all the cultural Marxism stuff back if they possibly can. So Victoria is set aside for a time. The vignette, well, more than a vignette, the whole story that's laid there. What does still apply from Victoria, however, and I have a separate book out on this, is retroculture. Is the only where we're going to get back the country that we had created largely by the Victorians. Its last afterglow was the 1950s, our last normal decade. There's no way we're going to get back to that country without a retroculture movement,

not something driven by government, but of ordinary people deciding they're going to live again in the old ways. And this is happening to a growing extent, but it needs to happen on a very large extent if we're going to make America, again, the country that what America used to define. You have anything, Mr. Fieldhouse? I was just going to say for our audience who hasn't read Victoria, I still think it's a great book as far as communicating ideas about fourth generation warfare. And I'm a huge believer in using fiction as a tool for treating for leadership development. And it's a great example of it does that, sir. And in fact, one of the many things it is is a series of not tactical, but operational decision games, where the reader is taken through how to think militarily on the operational level.

And the reason I've done that is because what I see over and over in the U.S. military, is, as has always been the case, because our military heritage is French, we have no grasp of the operational level, which was central to the German and to the Russian ways of war. The Russian plan for invading Ukraine operationally was very good. Their units just couldn't execute it. But most American military headquarters have a clue about operational art. So the book is a series of lessons in them. Yeah, I was going to say that there is a long term.

tradition of using fiction to do that, people like Jerry Pornel became famous to that, Harold Coyle. And partly, it was a response to the fact that just the professional, institutional, educational system of the U.S. military, as you said, does a very poor job teaching that part of the profession. Yes. It's, again, it's on the French model. It reduces everything to wrote process. It's war by process.

but the problem of not being used right at the operational level is central for our special operations forces because if you look at how we use them, they're just using the tactical level and that means they're just given their small size, not going to have any

impact on a large conflict. They just become a SWAT team in effect. Yeah. I'm sorry, sir. It's not their fault. but they nonetheless need to do something about it or they'll continue to be misused. So that's a bit of a digression, but it's a frustration on my part seeing our best units used wrongly because we've got headquarters that don't understand the operational level.

Yeah, and to that point, I think it's more than just special operations, everything from logistics to aviation to even the issue of the Marine Corps. There are lots of things we don't integrate the tactical forces into a larger strategic plan, And as you said, they do great work, but they do great work in a vacuum because nobody knows how to employ them properly. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person.

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80s and early 90s with the adoption of maneuver warfare as doctrine where the whole Marine Corps was thinking and talking and writing about war, it's all gone. at this point. And it's so bad that a German officer, who's a friend of mine, said that a friend of his, another German officer, went to Quantico and spent some time at the Marine Corps Basic School. This is the school for new lieutenants. And he ran at German Stahl, which is exactly what Marine Corps doctrine, the MCDP-1 warfighting, calls for. So it was mission type orders, initiative over obedience, get the result, doesn't matter how you get it, outward focus. The lieutenants all loved it. He was called in by other faculty who said to him,

you were teaching Marines to think. Remember this is officers we're talking about. We don't want them to think. We want them to just follow orders. That's the suicide of a grand old institution. One of the things I was taught as a lieutenant and commissioning source at military college was at every level an officer needs to understand that you exist in order to solve problems that don't yet have solutions. So you can't just follow orders because if that was all that was required, it would have been solved by a sergeant before you ever showed up. Yeah, it's the officer is required to get the result of the situation where it's, requires regardless of borders. That was key to the Schoenhorst reforms in the Prussian army after their catastrophe in 1806 at the Battle of Vienna. And that remains central to maneuver warfare. And for the Marine Corps explicitly to say, we don't want our officers to think, again, this is

institutional suicide. Yeah, it's turning the Marine Corps into a second-rate army. Well, syncs don't ask for Marines anymore because they're so poorly trained. They want special ops forces. They don't want Marines. That means that you as the provider of the Marine Corps, I've lost your customer. So more than one person I asked about asking questions to you, wanted to follow up on this. And the last time we talked, we asked. But people still want to ask, is your, have you heard anybody described,

fifth generation warfare that makes any sense to you? No, and I'm not going to, and neither is anybody else. Generally, if you hear the term fifth generation warfare, it's somebody trying to sell a product by giving it that label. It's just advertising. Fourth generation of war is going to take at least a century to play itself out, and what it's about is the crisis of legitimacy of the state, and that continues to spread, including here. One of my great fears with the Ukraine-Russian war is if Russia loses, I think that's highly unlikely, but if it should happen, the Russian Federation might itself disintegrate into chaos. Now, which is a worst problem for us?

Vladimir Putin's Russia, or Russia turning into a stateless area with thousands of nuclear weapons and delivery mechanisms that can reach the United States in the hands of, we have absolutely no idea who is in control of them. And one of them starts hitting a U.S. city and says, we'll do it. We're going to nuke one of your cities every week until you hand over all the gold in Fort Knox. What do you do? So state preservation is the task of existing states. I just did a column again for traditional right,

looking at the Israeli-American Iranian war from this. perspective and how it affects the legitimacy of the state in those three countries. Well, in Iran, obviously it undermined it tremendously. And it is not in our advantage that the state of Iran disintegrate. In Israel, it's being ripped apart internally because to stay in power, Netanyahu has to please these small ultra-Orthodox parties that are demanding constant war against everyone, and their constituents won't fight. They're exempt from the draft. So the ultra-Orthodox are pushing Israel into war after war and saying, you, the secular Israelis, have to fight them. We don't. You talk about a collapse in legitimacy. That is, that's risking

it in a very high degree. And here again, as I said earlier with Trump, he has left his base behind with what he's doing not only in the Middle East, but elsewhere, in terms of getting us involved in more wars. That is not what we voted for him for. So there's a legitimacy issue, not for the state here, but certainly for the Trump presidency. The problem is nobody in national capitals sees this. Martin Van Krafeld said to me years ago at my office in Washington, everybody can see it that the people in the capital cities. And that remains true. The next question we had was had to do with drone warfare and, you know,

ask whether drones are something new, are they just another permutation of artillery? There are another permutation of air power, in my view. What we're seeing with drones is they work greatly on the battlefield to the advantage of the defense. And this goes right back to World War I. in both World Wars, we saw that when the enemy has a lot, has control of the air, and is putting a lot of air power over you, because he's got control of the air, you're fine as long as you don't have to move. The problem comes when you have to move, and particularly have to move under time pressure,

and he's got air over you all the time when you're moving. At most, it greatly slows you down. And this was a big problem with the Germans in 1944, countering the D-Day invasion. They needed the German defense operated on the basis of a fairly thin forward defense that's more of a screen and then shifting operational reserves to pocket enemy breakthroughs. But that means those operational reserves have to move very quickly,

which means they have to move on roads. but they had allied fighter bombers over them the whole time they were trying to do that, which forced them off the roads and into cover. So it wasn't so much the attrition that was the problem. It was what it did to the speed of their movement of operational reserves. On the eastern front, the Soviet Air Force, which had the worst planes and the worst pilots, was probably the most effective Allied Air Force because it focused everything exactly on that, slowing the movement of German operation reserves, the fire brigades, as the Germans call.

So what drones are doing is simply duplicating that situation that we've seen before, but doing so very cheaply and with a whole lot of aviation over you all the time. the cost of large fleets of fighter bombers or even Stoovek's, which was the aircraft the Russians used so effectively this way, or Stukas, which the Germans used this way, was limited by their cost and the cost of the pilot and all of the rest of it. When the drones are the kinds of Ukrainians are building, which, by the way, have worked a great deal better than our multimillion-dollar drones, which proved easy takedowns for Russian EW, The ones Ukrainians are making for a couple hundred bucks in their garages, you can have enormous quantities of them, and they're overhead all the time. Again, so long as you don't have to move, you're on the defensive, that's not a huge problem. But as soon as you go on the offensive, it is a huge problem.

And the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hexeth, just did something brilliant. he said in the Army and Marine Corps Colonels now have the authority to take government money and go out to the hobby shops and buy and put together any drones they want and experiment with them. Brilliant. This is exactly the way the German army used to operate.

A lot of lateral authority, experimentation, you pass around the results of what works and what doesn't work. And he thereby bypassed our whole Soviet-style military R&D and procurement system that would tell you, oh, we can have a new drone in 10 years and it'll cost $20 million apiece. The way we do R&D procurement now is so bad, it literally cannot produce a good product. So he just bypassed the whole thing on the drone issue.

I'll also mention for the first time since maybe 1480, the Portuguese Navy is now leading the world. Portugal is now building the world's first designed, bottom-up built drone carrier. It looks like a small aircraft carrier. It will carry air drones, surface drones, and undersea drones. I don't know the numbers, but it will probably carry more drones than a Ford class carrier can carry fighter bombers. And it costs about $130 million. Approximately one- one-hundredth the cost of a Ford-class carrier. So Portugal's again leading the way. Be nice if somebody in Washington would pay attention to that. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid. We're planning to upgrade the electricity

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Terms apply for more infoos sky.a slash speeds. In order for the United States to become, to start pumping out and becoming the kind of manufacturer of military equipment. I mean, and I'm not talking about just small arms. I'm talking about basically a lot of the things that we have to rely upon other countries now to build, especially China, parts, everything, if you were to bring that back all home, bring that all back home, I mean, do you think we're looking at like nationalization? Do you think you're going in and using eminent domain to take land, build national factories and basically hire people and put people to work? I have trouble seeing like if there was another arms race now with Russia, because Russia is just basically just can build at will. I have trouble. I have trouble seeing like if there was an, if there was another arms race now with Russia, because Russia is just basically, it just can build at will. I have trouble. I have.

trouble seeing the private industry being able to do it anymore because private industry just sends so much overseas. Well, of course we can do it and we can do it without all those dire effects because what we actually need for the most part is cheap, simple stuff, not enormously expensive vast programs, not F-22 and now what is it, F-49 fighters and all of the rest of it. the kind of stuff that's working in combat is again stuff people are putting together in their basements and we certainly have for the heavy industry side of it for tanks for example we have plenty capacity of rust belt factories in cities like cleveland hey we still make steel and we still have by the airport we still have the world war two tank and bomber plant all you'd have to do is

start spooling it up again warner and suasy the buildings are still standing, barely, a machine tool factory in World War II employed 5,000 people. That'd be great for Cleveland. Love to see it. But what prevents it is the whole R&D and procurement system we now have, which again duplicates the Soviet economy. A friend of mine had a brief he gave around the Pentagon that one of the slides says the Pentagon now controls the world's largest planned economy. Nobody got it. Nobody blinked as to what that means. I mean, literally, it works on millions of pages of regulations. Of course, if you're going to do it through something like that,

the result's going to be a disaster, but we don't have to do it that way. There are lots of cheap, simple solutions. Again, we see the people involved in real wars doing these kinds of things, and we can build that stuff, and we can do it without, in effect, copying the old Soviet economy or doing as Nazi Germany did in the 30s and reviving the economy through forced draft militarization.

The way war is going is not friendly to great big, complex, expensive systems because more and more they're getting taken down by cheap, simple system. And I can't help, by the way, being amused by all of this fear in Europe and the U.S. and NATO over the Russian army. The Russian army's performance in Ukraine war has been terrible.

It's been a joke. It's been so bad. Yes, they're learning, but they've got a long way to go. This is not the Soviet Army of 1944-45. This isn't even probably the Soviet Army of 1941. This has been a disaster for the Russian army. I think, frankly, that the Scandinavian states, the Baltics, and Poland could on their own. give the Russians a thorough beating if they tried any infursions into those areas.

This, again, much of it is the military, industrial congressional complex, keeping the money flowing. And by the way, in the Black Sea, the Russian Navy hasn't performed any better than its Army did. I just don't get the panic. Let me ask you about infrastructure at home. it's we have bridge you know we had a bridge fall in uh in Baltimore we had um we have this is happening all over the place train derailments power outages for no reason whatsoever in some places and you know for hours and hours what do you see having to be done to keep infrastructure going in the future, a lot of the people who know how to take care, you know, run a water treatment plant

are aging out. They're retiring. A lot of the, unless these skills have been passed down, we're looking at people who are coming, you know, who are coming into positions of, you know, we see this with politicians who have no idea what, have no theory of politics whatsoever. What's the future of infrastructure and should, what should, what should, we'd be worried about, if anything? Well, I'm not an infrastructure specialist, but at least depart from railways. I can say if the government wants to get private companies like railroads,

power companies, etc., to improve the infrastructure, it's very simple. You give them all kinds of tax breaks for doing that. Basic rule of governing. If you want more of something subsidize it, if you want less of something tax it. So the railroads, for example, are taxed fairly heavily. So you give them all kinds of tax deals if they'll put the money into improving the tracks.

By the way, most of the tracks in the U.S. at this point are in pretty good shape, and we aren't seeing necessarily more derailments. They just get a lot more attention than they used to. Trained derailments were fairly frequent in the past. We're actually probably down in respect to that. Yes, the highways are in many cases are terrible, and the bridge is a real problem. I mean, at least the bridge in Baltimore collapsed because a ship hit it. One collapsed in Milwaukee without any outside prompting. But there is one thing you touch on that I think is a vital importance and is getting no attention.

It's central to this concept of resilience, which is what we need to build a much more resilient society. And a lot of this has to be at the local level. But the critical thing is you mentioned water plants, all of that. The generation that's retiring or retired was the last one to know how to make them, work without computers. What we need to be prepared for is all the computerized stuff going down, whether it's because of a solar burst of EMPs, electromagnetic pulses. We got one in the 1850s that was so strong and set the telegraph keys on fire.

What would that do to every computer now? And what happens to your infrastructure if the only people who know how to operate it only know how to use the computers, and they don't know the manual backups. So I think there should be strong government subsidies for going to the people who knew how to make these things work without computers, recording that so their knowledge isn't lost, and making sure the devices they used, which would mostly be levers and valves and so on, that made it work before computers are still there and can be activated in an emergency. Because this dependence of vital infrastructure on computers is an enormous Achilles heel.

Yes, they can be taken down by a foreign attack. They can be taken down potentially by artificial intelligence. They can be taken down by the sun itself. But when they go down, we really need to have backups that don't. require that. In fact, if you look at cities, most people can get by for quite some time without electricity. They can get by with food in the basement for some time. What they can't get by with a matter of hours rather than days is water. Drinkable, safe water. We're up to me. I would require every city to have an auxiliary pumping system that was powered by steam.

because steam is the only form of power that requires no electricity. And I can assure you there are plenty of Daphaegis to fleet people in this country, steam-spirited, who would love nothing better, not getting paid for it, just to be the guys who come down on once a quarter fire up the steam plant, and make sure it's still working. We've got plenty of coal. We know how to build steam engines. and to keep those pumping stations going, when all the electricity was gone,

is going to be the number one consideration for cities when it comes to resilience. Of course, I wouldn't be a cultural conservative if I would like to see everything go back to steam power. But this is a case where we really need it. Mr. Fieldhouse? Yeah, so this comes from a friend. It's a three-part question. The first party is talking about drones, and we've, we, talked about that. You said it's primarily a continuation of aviation from the last century.

Do you see drones as being viable for an indefinitely long period, meaning you think there are going to be a counter to drones all of a sudden that changes that, or do you think it's going to continue on the trajectory that we're seeing right now, sir? I think there's going to be a counter, and I think it's going to be an area-wide counter, and I think every major power is working on this right now. There are all kinds of possibilities ranging from barrageble. balloons, through aerosols, through EMP, once again. At a certain point, if you don't have drones or don't have very money and your enemy has a lot, it's to your advantage to fry every electric circuit in or near the battlefield.

So I think that the invulnerability, if you will, of drones, I mean, they're vulnerable individually, but because of their numbers, the invulnerability of the drone cloud, if you wish, I think that's going to be something that comes and goes fairly quickly. So it's something like machine guns during the early part of the first World War. There was no counter to it until infiltration tactics and people invented a counter. Okay. Yeah. It's a little bit, by the way, World War I have to correct it.

80% of the casualties on the Western Front weren't to machine guns. They were to artillery. Okay. Yeah. Understood. Another one. constricting supply change. This deals a little bit with what we talked about with infrastructure, but we know that supply chain's disruption has been a big issue that we're just

now starting to see the last couple of years. Do you think that problem will get worse and speed up, or do you think it's going to, or excuse me, do you think that would speed up the operational speed of land warfare, or do you think it'll slow down the operational speed of land warfare, or is that something that's still not to be determined, sir? I think that's not determined. I do think, again, what we always fail to understand, and again, this comes back to feeding the military, industrial congressional complex, is that sophisticated systems often have unsophisticated counters that are quite effective. I mean, when we tried to create the matnamaral line in Vietnam of high-tech sensors,

the VC countered it with things like buckets of piss hung in trees. So there are all kinds of, and again, the Ukraine war is showing a lot of this, there are all kinds of very imaginative, inexpensive, quick ways to counter complex systems. And we tend not to pay much attention to that. Whether in the end that's going to favor offense or defense, whether it's going to slow things down or speed them up, I wouldn't care to predict. Yeah, I understand. sir. Is there a period that you see, historical period that you see as comparable or analogous

to fourth generation warfare? The person who's asking that basically has the thesis that the 30 years war pre-Westphalia is probably the period that looks more, most like fourth generation warfare, sir. Yes, I would include the 30 years war, but I wouldn't restrict it to that. If I really want to look at the parallel, I'd look at the 14th century. And there's a great book, Harper took me. a distant mere of the calamitous 14th century, based on the diary of a French nobleman at the time, the Ciducis, this is when the Black Death hits Europe.

And the Middle Ages, what everybody's been told about the Middle Ages is completely wrong. The Middle Ages were a high civilization. It was a very successful civilization. It was the closest we've come to building a traditional, to building a real Christian society. what destroyed it was the plague. When in six weeks you lose a third, a half, three quarters of your population,

everything changes and everything falls apart. So the 14th century was a time of absolute calamity with things like artificial intelligence that's already showing a bit how dangerous it can be and it's going to show a lot more of that. At a certain point, the machines are going to say, why do we put up with the carbon-based units? With the possibility of, obviously, nuclear war, with the genetic engineering,

genetic engineering is going to create both unintentionally and intentionally new plagues that could spread like the common cold but have the death rate of the black death. With all these kind of things hitting modern civilization, I think what we're potentially looking at is another 14th century. And yes, the 30 years war, by the way, Germany went through another 30 years war in the 20th century. Essentially World War I through the end of World War II, it's another 30 years war,

and with similar results for Germany. But the first 30 years war, by some accounts, the population of Germany was reduced from 16 million to 60. Are we going to potentially see that kind of thing again, unfortunately? Yes. And of course, especially if the National Institute of Healthcare is to keep funding gain of function research in deadly diseases. Do you have any of your own questions, Mr. Fieldhouse? I was going to say before that, a friend of ours, Daryl Cooper, is actually working on

an interwar World War I, World War II series, and he's actually looking at the fighting that went on in Germany post-World War I. There's so much there that we could talk about forever that's so relevant to the things we're talking about. I was going to ask, Martin Van Kreveld. I know Professor Van Kreveld went dark about six months ago, and he shut off all of his websites and whatnot. Do you know if he's still around or do you pass away, sir? I don't know, but it's the first I've heard of that, so I'm going to give Martin a call. We're good friends.

Now, I don't see his stuff normally because I do not and will not normally use the Internet. This is not a computer in my home, I assure you. There is no such thing. But that concerns me, yes. And thank you for letting me know that, and I will certainly try to give Mark McCall. I think he's also been hit hard by what's been going on in Israel, again with Netanyahu over and over again sacrificing his country

to his own personal interest of remaining in power. as I said on our last broadcast. Now to be pro-Israel, you have to be anti-Metanyahu. He's doing so much damage. And that may have hit Mark very hard because he does understand this. But no, thanks for letting me know. And I would be interested if you do find anything, sir. I was going to say Dr. Van Kreveld has been very critical of the military actions since October 7th.

And he has not been the most, he has, for a decade, it's not been the most popular person concerning the military in Israel, because he can be very critical of the IDF. Yeah, and he does so from a basis of very, very good knowledge about the IDF and if we're going to understanding about the idea. And this, of course, is his focus on the moral level of war. If only the Israelis were to use the grid that you'll find in my new maneuver order handbook and in the fourth generation warfare handbook that I wrote with Lieutenant Colonel Greg Thiel.

Very simple tool. I'm trying to push at the police departments as well if you were picking up on it. It's just a nine box grid, and you have the classic three levels of war on one side, tactical operational strategic, and John Boyd's on the other axis, the physical mental moral. And what you'll see is that states too often, and including the United States, focus almost all in reference at the tactical and physical box, which is the weakest of all the boxes. A higher trumps a lower. This is something people don't get. The strongest box is where the fourth generation entities focus, which is the strategic and moral. And whether we're talking at police department, all these problems you see with police.

police departments where they get in political trouble because some black, usually with a record as long as your arm, gets beaten up or worse, but cops, if they just would use the grid to plan their operations, I first came up with it when I spent a week with the Royal Marines in the early 2000s, and what the Royal Marine General said, this could help us foresee and avoid some second and third order effects. Well, yeah, that's kind of important, whether you're talking policing, whether you're talking war. Those second and third order effects are often much more important than the first order effect. And we don't get it. The IDF used to get it, doesn't get it anymore. Martin has been the guy leading the charge on this. So, yeah, I'm not surprised at all that he's,

that he's been very distressed because he's Martin and his wife are Zionists. They really, really believe in Israel. And to see your country doing itself that kind of damage is very difficult. And it appears that from everything I've seen on Twitter, Mr. Lutwok has taken the opposite direction. He believes that Israel is at its strongest right now, which I've known Ed Lutflok for a long time. He is as a writer, a brilliant stylist. And I'll leave it there. Well, a mutual friend of ours, Scott Horton from anti-war.com, had a question. And today is actually Scott's birthday. So I want to throw him out.

I have mine last Wednesday. I'm 78. Awesome. Awesome. Glad you're still here. I'm still here. I'm going strong. Yeah.

My friend, Greg, who submitted some questions. He's like, haven't heard from, I'm like, he's fine. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. But Scott Horton wanted your opinion about what Israel looks like for the midterm, you know, basically in the middle term now. Let me start by saying that when someone I know who I won't name asked President Nixon when he was in office, what do you think of Israel's future is?

President Nixon asked long-term, and my friend said, yes, Nixon went. Well, that long-term is now medium-term, and Israel is a classic crusader state, and it only survives, like all crusader states, as long as it gets extensive external support. And this is something, this is the catastrophe at the moral level, that Netanyahu's inflicting on Israel. He's creating a generation of people throughout the rest of the world who see Israel as the successor to Nazi Germany, who consider it loathsome on the moral level. And what is that going to do to that external support? We're now seeing this only from young people without much influence this initiative to divest of all investments that would benefit Israel and so forth.

What happens when those people are in power, which will just happen generationally over time, is their view of Israel going to change? No, that view of Israel is being cemented right now by what's going on in Gaza and the West Bank. And yeah, for a crusader state to destroy itself at the moral level is death. It's the end. The support stops coming and the place goes away. So medium term, well, Nixon, who was our best foreign policy president of all time by far. It's been a while since Nixon was president.

So that long term may be in the medium term at this point. what a lot of it comes down to is can they find some way to get Netanyahu out of there and replace him with someone who's not just focused on himself and his own career and begin to begin to get Israel begin to get let Israel rebuild the moral capital that's been the basis for its survival since it's founding and that it's now spending at a tremendous rate under Netanyahu. I mean, he is at this point the death of Israel. It's occurred to me when I've talked to Pete in the past that it's like the only way to understand current is really strategic decisions is to think of,

or understand Netanyahu is behaving like a cornered animal, that he's afraid that essentially he's going to be sent to prison and that he'll die in prison. and because of his age, I just think that's the only way to really understand the way or make sense of the way he's acting lately in terms of military matters, sir. Yeah, I would agree. And I think what's needed is for the Israeli opposition all to come together and say, we guarantee you a pardon. You will not go to jail if you leave the prime ministership. And that's something that, shall we say, the U.S. could help encourage. Yeah. in the U.S. assistance would be necessary to ensure that he's not arrested by the ICC in the future?

What we should have very simply, and this implies not just to Israel, is where we can get someone who's destroying his own country to leave it. We should have a lovely area of Florida with all these marvelous mansions, and they will be secure there the rest of their days. it would be a whole lot cheaper than going to war to try to restore failed states. Give them an estate on a British property or an American property like they did for Napoleon after a second defeat. Exactly. Well, they did it the first time. St. Helena was a little, that was a little rougher. But yeah, we should give them a golden bridge over which to retreat. And that should start with Netanyahu.

And I know nobody who likes Golden Rich is better than President Trump. So, or will win anything. So maybe that's something he could give some thought to. Yeah, it's, it just seems rather absurd and just truly insane that a country that cannot, basically cannot survive where it has placed itself in the world that needs the support of other countries. in order to exist would just basically destroy its reputation on the world stage. And that's what Netanyahu's basically done is he's, there's like three, there's maybe two or three countries left in the world that support,

that support Israel. And the rest are at this point, or either hostile or just, or neutral to it. Yeah. And one of them provides the ammunition that they need for their anti-aircraft. system and can't make it fast enough. Yeah, it's, again, it's sad. I've been to Israel. I like the country. I like the people. Fascinating place.

I'm going to talk about history. I was walking with Martin Van Krafeld and near the whaling wall, which is the base of Temple Mo. And he pointed up to a little corbeling, and he said, that carried a wooden bridge that carried over to the palace of King David. where else do you find this well China perhaps but yeah it's it's tragic I I'm a despair at seeing Israel do this to itself and again it isn't Israel it's one party that could and one man been you and Netanyahu who's doing it one of the main problems you see I've been saying for since October 7th that Israel basically has to become more like a Western democracy in order to survive because really if you get Netanyahu out of there,

there are people who are more hardline than Netanyahu waiting to take over. That is also true. And that again will simply speed Israel's demise. It does have, it has made progress in terms of good state-to-state relations with some of its neighbors, although what they're doing in Gaza has put that on ice. But in terms of a people-to-people relationship, and again, the image that Israel has around the world is, it's absolutely self-destructive. So if Washington really wants to help Israel, again, it will build the golden bridge over which Netanyahu can retreat. and then we just have to hope that the Israeli public comes to understand that those kinds of policies are long-term and again, even medium-term disastrous for Israel,

and vote in a government that won't do that. You're entirely right. They could vote in somebody more hardline. All you can say is it's sad to see Israel destroy itself. All right, let me ask about Iran. I've been saying for two, two and a half years now that, and I think John and I have done episodes on this. I've done episodes with other people on this. A ground invasion of Iran is not going, the staging on that would take, you know, at least a year.

It's not going to happen. It is not going to happen. So what happens with Iran? Do they go on a, do they just decide to turn it into glass from the air, which is, which would take, that will, you'd lose a lot of aviation lives that way. Or do we just, do we force Israel and Iran to get along, which just doesn't seem to be in the cards since Netanyahu has been, you know, as taking power there? Well, I think the question again, from a 4GW perspective, is does the state of Iran hold together in the face of these defeats in state-to-state conflict? Let me just have to see how that happens. Persians are at most about 50% of the population. There have already been a number of centrifugal movements in largely non-Persian parts of the country. if we have another state disintegration like that in Iraq results here, the long-term effects will not be good for the United States or anybody else. Iran is a much more populous country than Iraq.

But the notion of us getting it on the ground, no, this would take the kind of U.S. administration that is as totally detached from reality as was the George W. Bush administration. that is not the case with President Trump. He does still have a grasp on reality. What the internal situation of Iran is going to develop, I simply don't know at this point it's too early to say. They're sitting back at the moment and licking their wounds and trying to figure out what they're going to do next. And we just, we have to see what their next move is.

Mr. Fieldhouse? Yeah, I'm very interested in that, partly because I was one of those people who had long or not Iran. I thought it would have been a more capable actor than it's been in the last year or two. But yeah, as you said, from a logistic standpoint, not only would you need a presidency that had been detached from reality, but I think the years, multi-year build-up process to even do an invasion is going to bring them back to a reality sooner or later.

Well, you've got a political revolt in this country. People would say we're not sending more of our kids to die for no reason in deserts halfway around the world. The public recognizes that the Iraq war was an absurdity, and it's not going to sit back for another one. Yeah, and to Pete's earlier point, it's like how long can an air war continue when our Israel's depended upon munitions being provided from the U.S.

that are also being used in Ukraine, that within a year, we were able to manufacture certain calibers ammunition less than it's being consumed in three or four weeks. So this is a horrible attrition strategy that the United States is waging. Well, Ukraine is not likely to win a war of attrition against Russia, simply because Russia is a much larger, stronger country. But if we're looking at Iran, President Trump's made it fairly clear he doesn't want an endless war with Iran. He wants a diplomatic solution, and he's open to removing the sanctions on Iran as part of a diplomatic solution.

So I think he's taking exactly the right approach here. And in fact, even immediately after our airstrike, which again, I wish we hadn't done, but immediately afterwards, Vice President Vance said, we are not at war with Iran. We are at war with Iran's nuclear program. That was a very important distinction. But the notion of us doing a ground invasion of another country halfway around the world for what, the public would stop it in the heart.

They're saying, my kids aren't going. Yeah. For what and with what? I mean, we have a much more engaged military than we had in 2003, and we have approximately 10% smaller. So, yeah, I agree. What we really have at the moment are not armed services. What we have are four very well-funded clubs for World War II.

War II reenactors. And so long as that is the case, we will be well advised to stay out of wars. I'll finish off with one question. Then 2028 rolls around. And I don't know what your opinion is of the election of 2020, but I think that there was pockets of shenanigans that basically led to the highest vote total of all time by far. But we get to 2028 and either Trump has been such a failure that they're not going to, the public is not going to trust Vance and the left gets in there and gets someone in there who is

not a Gavin Newsom, but somebody more like an Alexandria Casio-Cortez or someone of that ilk. does this culture war heat back up? And as under the Biden administration, and I think most of us know that Biden wasn't in charge for most of that, where they targeted Catholics praying outside of abortion clinics and pretty much anyone who was to the right of Bernie Sanders, do we see them try to persecute? people who are more going towards the kind of traditional, the return to tradition, like the return

to the 1950s like you were mentioning, do we see a full-on attack on those people? Yes, I think you would. The cultural Marxists believe in the stuff. I mean, it's absurd to the rest of us. They believe that everybody who's white or male or non-feminist woman or straight or Christian or Jewish or Asian or what have you, in other words, is not a member of one of their sainted victims groups, is inherently evil and must be suppressed by the state and must be reeducated forcefully, so all they do is endlessly apologize to the various victims groups. No, the public is not going to take this. They will bring it back if they get in. but I think at that point you're on the road to Victoria again,

and I think that would be a rather short road because the heartland would rise against this. And what the cultural Marxists don't understand is even if they're in power at Congress and in the White House, they're dependent on security forces, police and military, to enforce their edicts. but the people in those security forces loathe cultural Marxism. And so what you would have very quickly would be the heartland would be in the streets

and the military and the police would come over to it. And when that happens to a regime, it's over. If they lose the security forces, they lose everything. And I think that, I think that, I, I don't think the Democrats are going to be so dumb as to nominate someone like Bernie Sanders or to the left of Bernie Sanders, one of the squad, if you will, from the House or someone like that. I think their candidate is likely to be much more pragmatic. Someone, Newsom is moving to the right as fast as he can to position himself as a moderate. it. And I think, frankly, if they were to nominate an open cultural Marxist, no matter how bad the economy was, the Democrats would go down to a defeat of historic proportions, because the bulk of the country outside the East Coast elites has rejected cultural Marxism at this point. And that's why, as I said, you're even seeing liberals cheering the fact that Trump is waging open war on it and successful war against it. People were right.

up to here with being told that their career was over because they used somebody's wrong pronoun. It became, cultural Marxism became a self-satire. It went so far. I don't think you're going to see the Democrats so stupid as to nominate somebody who represents that. But if they do, then yes, we're back on the road to Victoria. And I don't want to see that happen. Well, I don't either. And, you know, it's just the absurdity of, the post-war consensus being that everybody, everybody's an individual, yet you, you're not allowed to have collectivism, but we're all going to get along. It just, it doesn't, it's absurd. Well, the diversity and community are at opposite ends of the poll. The more diverse an area,

the less community forms. Conservatives are and always have been strong supporters of community. This is a point I've made in the Congress for the New Urbanism, which is something I was involved in almost from the beginning, the recovery of traditional neighborhoods and town designs as opposed to sprawl suburbs as an option so that people have some choice other than sprawl. That the, I lost my train of thought, which happens a lot of my age, the diversity and community are opposed to one another because you get community most strongly where people are most alike, and conservatives like community that we violate it very highly, because the best way to enforce norms of social behavior is through community pressure, not through law, not through police, not through courts.

But simply that you find yourself on the outs with the community, if you do, certain things. And because community is something people want and value, if they're in a genuine community, that will exert a certain moderating tendency on what might be otherwise extreme behaviors. So, you know, community is one of the things we want to recover through retroculture. And I'll close with this, because I think we're done. If the country is to become, again, the America that it used to be, that I remember from the 50s. And that, by the way, is what most of the immigrants are coming here for. That's their picture of America. It's the America Father knows best and I'll leave it to Beaver. It was a great America. If we're going to recover

that, we can't sit back and just wait for Trump or some other government official to do that for us. It will come bottom up or not at all. It's important that the state not be an obstacle to it. And Trump's assault on cultural Marxism is disestablishing a lot of the obstacles to that traditional way of life that, of course, cultural Marxism had set up. Cultural Marxism loathes the America of the 50s. But if it's going to happen, it's going to be a bottom-up movement as more individuals and families and hopefully communities start to say, we're.

We're going to live in the old ways again. The old ways based on classic middle class values worked. The new ways that started when the counterculture of the 60s became the mainstream culture don't work. It's as simple as that. And I think there is the potential for such a movement. Again, I've got a little book out on the subject is called Retro Culture, Taking America Back.

It's happening in a growing number of places. we need to build that into the kind of movement that the left has built with, say, the environmental movement, not coercive, not something that is pushed by government, but where government, again, is not an obstacle to it. And we can, we can indeed take America back, but it's something we each as individuals and as families have to do. We can't wait and sit there and expect someone else to do it for us. That's what I've been saying for a long time. it's all going to start at the local level in order to repair this it has to start at the local level it cannot be top down rarely can you solve anything from the top down it's always from the bottom up as my Amish brand say the reason we use

buggy is because we want life to be local mr fieldhouse do you have anything to finish with no um i i am speechless i appreciate it again talking to us sir I'd definitely be interested what you find out about Professor Van Freveld. And I was good. Anytime, sir. Okay. Well, I'll conclude with what I said to my Amish friends. If your buggies could have bunker stickers on them, they can't.

But if they could, theirs would read, we know what Jesus would drive. I will make sure to link to the American Conservative to, I already have the traditional right, and then I will link to your books. And I encourage the people listening to read Mr. Lind and to buy his books. So thank you. Thank you once again. We really appreciate your time. Thank you.

Happy to do it.