The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1248: A Realistic, Sperg-Free Discussion w/ Ron Dodson

Episode Date: August 3, 2025

86 MinutesPG-13Ron Dodson is Principal Owner & Portfolio Manager of a Texas hedge fund.Ron and Pete talk about the most pressing current issues from a realitic POV.Ron at the American ReformerRon's SubstackRon on TwitterPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon, and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro. Search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera, design that moves.

Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from Volkswagen. Financial Services, Ireland Limited. Subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th

because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items, all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Lidl Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value.

Discover five-star luxury at Trump Dunebeg. Unwind in our luxurious spa. Savour sumptuous farm-fresh dining. Relax in our exquisite accommodations. Step outside and be captivated by the wild Atlantic surrounds. Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas, with vouchers from Trump Dunebag.

Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunebiog, Kush Farage. If you want to get the show early and ad-free, head on over to the piquecignones show.com. There you can choose from where you wish to support me. Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me about this, even though I think on the last ad,

I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed, you're going to have to subscribe your substack, or through Patreon. You can also subscribe on my website, which is right there, gumroad, and what's the other one? Subscribe Star. And if you do that, you will get access to the audio file. So head on over to the Pekignonez Show.com.

You'll see all the ways that you can support me there. And I just want to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can put out the amount of material that I do. I can do what I'm doing with Dr. Johnson on 200 years together and everything else. The things that Thomas and I are doing together on continental philosophy, it's all because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank you enough. So thank you. The Pekingona Show.com.

Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekanjano show. Ron's back. Hey, Ron. How you doing? It's going on, Pete. Oh, you know, it's, well, One of those days, just another day, to like 90 degrees and 90% humidity outside.

So I'm sitting in the air conditioning. Yeah, we have entered the blast furnace section of the year in Dallas, where, you know, the weather is based on a dare. It is, it is hot. It is hot. So all my, all my, you know, cultural recovery for. on the right who, you know, want me to be in a full three piece, you know, and tie every day. I'm like, I live in Dallas. I love all that.

I love that aesthetic. I'm for you. But I'll do that when I, you know, when it's not 104, you know, in the shade. Yeah, yesterday morning I woke up. I purposely set my alarm for real early so I could most. the lawn. And normally when I get out that early and I mow the lawn, there's a, you know, there's a hint of a breeze. All gone. Just humidity and just, I mean, just mowing the lawn by the time. I mean, I got a riding mower. By the time I was done with that, I'm like, I can't. I'm not doing anything

else. This is insane. What are you crazy? When it's just, when it's just dead still and it's human, we don't have that in Dallas. What's funny is Dallas has, on average, as much or more wind than Chicago. It's just a function of it being so flat and, you know, where it is in relation to, you know, the mountains and everything. In other words, it has no relationship to any mountains. But, and it's, it's, it's not as dry as like Arizona, but it's, but it's nowhere near Houston or the Florida Panhandle or where you live. And so that is one thing we've got going for us is if you go outside, at least there's usually some kind of breeze going on.

And it's, you know, not 80, 90 percent humidity. That's a killer. Man, we used to own a bunch of apartments, family business. We used to own a bunch of apartments in Houston. And I remember when we made this big acquisition, this back in the Lehman was our lender. That tells you how long ago we're talking about. And we made an acquisition of 15 garden style of properties. These are all four to 800 units each property.

And over a week and a half, we had to go walk each unit because otherwise you don't know what you're buying. Right. And oh, I had to have lost 10 pounds just Houston. Oh, I mean, you know what it's like. You know, and you're climbing all those stairs and everything. It was miserable. But made us money. Yeah.

I mean, I was in Austin a couple of years ago right outside Austin and Spicewood, and we were on the Colorado. And it was like, it was like 105, 110 degrees. This is Memorial Day weekend. Yeah, Spicewood Springs. Yeah, yeah. The thing was, it was so windy all the time that it didn't feel. I mean, it's 105 degrees. Come on.

That's not even human. But I was still able to deal with it. It's really weird because you have this wind that's just, I mean, going through one year and out the other. I mean, it's just brutal. Yeah. So a fun day in the market today. We're recording on Friday. Don't even get me started.

And I'm trying not to be. I have my trading screens turned off so I won't be too distracted. But my, but I do have just for Feduc. My fiduciary responsibility, I have Fox business up and, oh, it's a fun one. It's a fun one today. I mean, not too, too bad. We're down, S&P's down one and three quarter percent. It could be a lot worse, but not, you know, we've had a good run. You know, we're up since April 2nd. We're up 10 and a half percent. So that's actually, you know, one day does not an investment make. but still not fun on the day. Well, it's interesting because if you track it,

you know, I knew that I knew some tech stocks were going to be down today because the NAS is down more so than bigger percentage. Yeah, it's down 2.4% today right now. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, then I look at, I track Bitcoin and Bitcoin's down as well. One and a quarter percent. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's tracking too. You know, let's jump into that. So this past week, Trump, big deal, does it always have to be a big deal with Trump. The biggest. This tariff thing with Europe. Yeah.

Well, here, we'll get into some economics, okay, about this. But let's start with this. Does any of this matter if you are not deporting 20 to 30 million people? You know, that's a really. that's a really good question, Pete. The interploc, first of all, I would love to think we would deport 20 to 30 million people. I'm becoming more and more skeptical every day, even though I think the biggest thing is,

let's take this in sections. I think the biggest thing right now is turning off the spigot coming in, right? and and there are provisions in the big beautiful bill you know everybody's talking about how ice has now a bigger budget that the Marine Corps and that's all great I think the I think right now the biggest emphasis is on making sure nothing comes in and then over time setting up the administrative part and like right wrong or indifferent there is an administrative part to being able to deport because right now there's just not the infrastructure to do so in numbers. And so the funding is there to increase that, but that doesn't happen overnight. So right now, can you seal the, can you make the border functional? Let's not even talk about sealing.

Can you make it functional? And I think they've, you know, the numbers aren't, I don't know. It appears that it is. Everything I've seen is. And even if it isn't and you're never going to get perfection, it's cut down on, from what I understand, 90 to 95% of what was happening under Biden. Right. And that's exactly what I'm seeing. So I think that's really good.

And then if you create this aura, so to speak. of, look, getting in the country actually involves a process and the borders are functioning and there is a that there is a new attitude to where we don't just, because here's where, here's where the immigration and the question of tariffs, let's just keep it in the realm of concepts for a minute. Where those are related is you're just talking about borders, functional borders. And with people is over here with ice and deportations and all that. And over here, you're talking financial with tariffs.

And you have to have both because money, if you don't have some kind of functional border, and I don't know what the magic number is as far as what the level of tariff ought to be. I think we can talk about that when we get in the minutia. But you have to have both people borders and financial borders. Otherwise, if you only have people borders, you commoditize your people because of capital flows. And that gets real, that sounds real complicated, but it's not. That gets into Dutch disease and all these other things. I've written about that.

And we can talk. I don't want people's eyes to roll back in their head and think, oh, this is going to be some really technical talk. But if you, Nick Land has been great at this. And I don't, you know, I'm not lockstep with Nick Land, but he's been great on the fact that capital, free cap, completely frictionalist free capital flows to where there is no, there are no borders, financial borders to your country.

really just hollows out your people. It commoditizes them because the money's going to go wherever it can have the highest rentier return. And so you got to have both. So that's how they're related. Now, what's the actual interplay? What you asked was, what's the actual interplay between trying to get to a point where we can deport people with, real gusto, the people who need to be deported. And we can have a good discussion about that. I think there's, you know, on the right, it tends to be, hey, they all must go back. And then

how do you define all? I'm probably compared to most, you know, Daryl Cooper and I are very much the same. And people call us both kind of bleeding hard on that. Neither one of us really are, but, but, but I have a hard time being really hardcore to the person. We basically de facto said, come on, make a better way of life, 20 years ago, and they've been here. We haven't jacked with them. And now they have a whole life and kids and all this stuff. Yes, I understand. I have, I have sympathy with everybody on the right who says, hey, they got to go back to, that just seems kind of shitty to me. Pardon me. I don't know if we can say, if I can say that on your podcast. Of course.

But that's where the argument is. The argument isn't we're just going to wink and nod and everybody. We're a citizen of the world and we're a, you know, a propositional nation and citizenship is BS and it means nothing. We're all in agreement that that ruins everything, right? So we're all on that page. The question is, is when I see my, you know, when I go and I'm driving to work in the morning, And I, at the bus stop to pick up the elementary school kids and all and those Hispanic moms who are there and the kids have their lunch and they're dressed well and they're really, they're acting American. These people who I'm talking about are acting American.

Well, okay, let's, I have a hard time being real hardcore about those folks because that life lived is what I'm. I want, quote unquote, heritage Americans to be doing. And so anyway, now I'm going to get hate mail because no, they all got to go back. But again, that's an argument. But again, I've skirted around this very good question about tariffs and the at-the-margin relationship to an outflow of cheap labor. That's what you're talking about, right? So, I don't think tariffs in a macro economy are inflationary.

I just don't because inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon. The big beautiful bill, it could be argued, may be inflationary. but it isn't if you couple it with the you're taking away this labor supply. Okay? And what I mean by that is, is that seems counterintuitive, but tariffs can't cause prices to go up because in and of themselves, they decrease where supply and demand cross. Does that make sense?

In other words, if this microphone that I'm using, to record this. If the prices of the price of this microphone, if it goes up and the demand for this microphone, the demand for podcasting microphones, and no, this isn't my cool RE20 that's at my home studio, this is a razor, whatever that is, 100 bucks, okay? But let's say this goes to $200. I'm just making up a number because of tariffs. The same number of these aren't going to be bought. They're just not. Supply and demand are going to cross at a different level. So you can't say tariffs increase the general price level.

And that's what inflation is. Well, because the general price level is an increase of dollars in the, it's more dollars chasing the same goods. That's inflation. Not the price of this goes up. That's not inflation. You can have compartmentalized inflation. For instance, we can say there is great inflation in healthcare for all kinds of reasons.

Or you can say there's inflation in the labor costs in contract manufacturing, home building. That may be going up. But inflation, when we talk as an economist, when we talk about inflation, you're talking about general price increases. and that is always a monetary phenomenon because if you get money, if the monetary base is the same, then all you're doing is prices in and amongst your goods and services all zero out. Does that make sense?

Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items, all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale,

28th to 30th of November. Liddle, more to value. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design. They move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plug-in hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon and Teramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2,000 euro.

Search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera. Design that moves. Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from Volkswagen Financial Services, Ireland Limited. Subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

Discover five-star luxury at Trump Dune Bag. Mind in our luxurious spa. Saver sumptuous farm-fresh dining. Relax in our exquisite accommodations. Step outside and be captivated by the Wild Atlantic Surounds. Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dunebeg. Search Trump-Ireland gift vouchers.

Trump on Dunebiog, Kush Farage. Hopefully. No, I mean, I talked for a long time. hopefully I didn't lose everybody. Well, I understand that inflation is monetary and you can't make the tariff. The tariff argument is. Yeah, you're a former libertarian guy. You understand this.

Yeah. And I see libertarians doing that. Oh, tariffs are inflationary. And then you correct them. And like a lot of them will be like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I'm, you know, they just get caught up in like an online, they get caught up in an online,

you know, their echo chain. is screaming something and they're screaming something. But, oh, by the way, you're not going to get the hate email. I'll get the hate email on that, you know, and I understand. And the crazy thing is. Pete, Pete, you know, here's what. I'm going to say this. For all you guys who, who listen to Pete and subscribe, this guy is the most honest broker.

He has never, ever once in the several times, I've been on your show four or five times now. and I know this from other people who I know are frequent guests on your show. He has never once said to me, hey, I want you to shade this this way or that way, or I don't want you to talk about this or that. Complete intellectual honesty and freedom. And let me tell you, not all shows are like that. So when you subscribe and I encourage you to do that because Pete is, he is bringing a diversity of use. usually from the right, but a wide spread of views. He isn't shading it from you're getting,

you're not getting what Pete wants me to say. You're getting exactly what I'm saying. So, so this guy's got intellectual honesty. And I know stuff behind the scenes that, that even, that you would, you'd be shocked at how,

what an honest broker this guy is. So all that being said, don't send him hate mail. If you don't like what I'm saying, don't send me hate mail either. but let's have an honest, just realize it's not Pete who's saying, yeah, I've kind of had these guests say this. Can you take the other side? Never in a million years would he say that. All right. Well, you know, the thing about the whole immigration thing and what Daryl said,

I mean, I was really disappointed, even in a lot of my brothers, my brothers in the old glory club with their take because Daryl is of the opinion that this is not going to have. happen, that mass deportations are not going to happen. It's not like he doesn't want them to happen. It's that he's taking that opinion and he's like, okay, so how do we live realistically? And that's one of the reasons I left libertarianism is because they don't do that. They preclude themselves from that. They're like, we're not going to look at things realistically because that's immoral. And then I see people on my side, people that I agree with and they're like, well, we can't look at things realistically. If we look at And it's like, well, I mean, why did I leave libertarianism?

Because you're just doing the exact same thing as purity spiraling. No, he doesn't believe that this is going to happen. So if this isn't going to happen, you know, do you, you know, the person, you know, when he said, you know, the white, you know, shit lib, Antifa fuck, do you, you know, would you rather live next door to them or would you rather live next door to, you know, some, some South America. who you go to church with. I mean, how is that, how is, that is only controversial to you and should upset you if you're a Spurge, if you're a complete retard. Okay. I mean, you're just, we're dealing in reality here and you're dealing in, oh, my, my, my ideology

where I have to be a perfect little soldier for whatever ideology I bought into. And I mean, I'm sorry, there's a practical way of the world. Well, and we have to figure out a way to. Yeah. And just think about it for a second. If would look, I'll put it this way. Nostalgia will kill you. It just will.

It's whereas, and people say, well, Ron, aren't you a little bit of a reactionary? And I go, yeah, I am. But, but, but, but reaction. looks back to what's best from what came before and then realistically tries to put that in a current and future context. We're never going back to the 1950s. And if you did, I don't want to black pill people because I think we're on a really good track. All things, you know, as they say, in economics, Keteros peribus, all things being held equal. And those of you playing Ron Dodson bingo, there's your Latin.

You can cross that off the, I'll get to Dikaiosune and the Greek later when I'll let you cross that one off too. But the just pure nostalgia and the desire to go backwards is every bit as deadly as the progressive idea that the arrow always goes up as part of this dialectic. process, they're the same thing. Just one looking backward and one looking forward. Nothing ensures the arrow goes up other than wise people dealing in reality. Most of what I talk about, well, I say most of what I talk about. I spoke to the Dallas Young Republicans the other night. An unbelievable group of people, you wouldn't believe these Jin Ziers. I mean, I was floored. We had this venue and it was standing room only. They must have thought somebody else was coming to speak, but it was standing room only,

standing ovation at the end of it. And I'm talking about geopolitics. And from a realist standpoint, I'm not like beating, you know, some drum and it's hardcore red meat. I'm like trying to do a junior John Mearsheimer, you know, impersonation, basically, talking about Iran and Israel and what foreign policy, how does it affect the average citizen? Should the average citizen be considered in foreign policy? The answer is yes, because the citizen is the one who should be considered by the state in every decision.

But anyway, I normally get asked to talk about that kind of stuff. But when I do get asked to talk about this, I want to be a realist, just like I am. when I'm talking about foreign policy or I'm talking about diplomacy or when I'm talking about geopolitical risk. We want to be in the land of the real. And the land of the real is your forefathers for better or worse in the founding of this country brought a first of all we weren't indigenous, but we settled this whole land. We didn't conquer. I mean, we can go back and forth about the American Indians and all that. And that's fine.

That's great. I don't have a problem with settling a radically pagan place and conquering that. I just, you know, I think Pete and I'd probably be on the same page as far as that. I have no problem with the conquistadors destroying what was going on in Central Mexico with the pyramids to human sacrifice. Oh, here comes the radical right to destroy all of our altars here. Yeah, fine. I'm good with that. Destroy them all.

Just like the English destroyed the most of it. I think it's pretty much all rooted out. The cannibalism in New Guinea and the disgusting things that were going on there. Yes, there is good and evil, and it is okay for a settling, conquering people to root out the evil. and human sacrifice is evil. If you don't think it is, then, you know, I don't know. We can, I don't know. But anyway, but that being said, we brought in a non-heritage American group to help us, you know, industrialize.

And then your forefathers brought in a whole bunch of folks that you may or may not like in order to fill up this entire continent, you know, this part of our continent. And that's done. And so you've got to, how we deal with that now is, first of all, you do exactly what Trump's doing is you go and get this homen hero. He's awesome. And he's like, we've got to have real borders. And by the way, not just on the southern border, on the northern border as well. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together, we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.com.i.4.Northwest. Employers, did you know you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1500 euro in gift cards annually completely tax-free. And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card.

Options Card is Ireland's brand new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit OptionsCard.I.E. Today. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savour festive bites from Big Fan Bell,

expertly crafted seasonal cocktails and dance the night away with DJs from Love Tempo. Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. house.com. Get the facts be drinkaware, visit drinkaware.com. The southern border is the biggest problem. I'm starting to, I mean, as far as I'm concerned, Canada is now is India. So we need, well, it's not just Indian, but Chinese infiltration via Canada is a thing. Um, but you've got to, you've got to start with securing your border. And that sounds very political and GOP and all this stuff. I don't mean that. It's just, it's like if you want to do,

to build a nuclear weapon, you can't start with a W88. You know, you can't start with a two-stage thermonuclear device. You've got to start here, simple, and then progress to here, and then progress to here. And that's what we've got to do. We have to have a immigration Manhattan project, and that's what we're doing. We're building this first stage, what you call a shotgun or a gun device right now where you have a we can do this where you have a subcritical mass here and a subcritical mass here you use some good old fashion explosive t-and-tie and you jam them together real fast and you have a critical event really quickly that's called a nuclear explosion doesn't get a ton of yield but it's you got to learn how to do that before then you can go to an implosion device which is much harder

And then once you learn how to do that, now you go and you start learning how to goose the yield on that implosion device. And then you go to a two-stage device and so on and so forth. That's what we're doing with immigration. And so you start with the border. And that is the, that's, it's not simple, but that's much easier than loading up people and putting them on buses, trucks, whatever. the key on the deportation is self-deportation. And what bothered me in the big, beautiful bill, was we didn't go hardcore on remittance.

Even 10% would have been, I think what do we settle on? 1%? 1.5%. I don't remember what the final number is. But remittance payments, and you've got to be careful, because what you don't want to do is punish U.S. citizens from being able to move money around. That's a separate, that's a separate issue. You might, you still need financial borders, but you don't want, you want to, you want to punish those who are here illegally and, and, and the remittance payment thing where they're sending all the money back, you know,

you're just having this huge flow. That incentivizes at cost, with, with no cost, that incentivizes illegal immigration and that incentivizes the people who are here illegally to stay here. The biggest part, if you want to decrease the illegal population from, I mean, what do you think it is, Pete, 30, 40 million, maybe north of 40 million? Let's say you want to cut that in half. I've heard 40. I've heard 40. I've heard 40.

Yeah. Let's go with 40. If you, if let's say it's 40, you can get and realistically in the next three years, what do you think you can actually truck out of here and process? I think probably five million maybe. Yeah, realistically. I mean, realistically without a, well, here's the thing is I don't think that you could do anything on a mass scale top down. I think it would have to be bottom up, which would mean local, local has to be involved, county has to be involved, state has to be involved. And it does, I don't know that that's what they're, I think they're trying to do a top down and

anything you try to do top down is going to fail because you have to bring, top down just doesn't work, especially in a managerial system. Absolutely. So what we're talking about, if you all want to go read about the principle, Pete and I are talking about is subsidiarity, or the, I'm making a hash out of pronouncing that. There's probably a much more eloquent way to say this word. But it's the idea that the best, most government is done tacitly where it's near and next to where the impact is. So most government is done best locally. Whatever you can push down to the local level is going to be done. First of all, that's where party matters less and all these other things and where you actually know the people are doing it. I live, I don't live in Dallas.

Well, you also have to deal with the fact that you have a multicultural society where you have fighting, you have interested or fighting against one another. And, you know, it's like you could, you could talk about, okay, oh, so a hundred years ago, if they wanted to get rid of, if a European country wanted to, you know, get rid of all of their illegal immigration, well, sure, well, the people who are doing this are all of basically a certain blood. They may be nineth, all ninth cousins or something like that. And it's very easy to see who, you know, who the outsider is. It doesn't exist. I mean, this, this country so far beyond that that. Yeah. And, and, you know, having the managerial system, having the NGO.

having all of these special interest groups. I mean, this is something brand new. You can't just look to the past and go, oh, if we can just do that, that doesn't, that's an anachronism. The way they did it is anachronistic. It has to be something new. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest.

We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4.Northwest. Employers. Rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card,

when with options card you can have both. Options card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a spend anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage. There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit OptionsCard.i.e. today. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savor festive bites from Big Fan Bell,

expertly crafted seasonal cocktails, and dance the night away with DJs from Love Tempo. Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at giddlestorhouse.com. Get the facts be drinkaware, visit drinkaware.com. So I was, I heard from a third party that one of the biggest, one of the biggest, one of the most wealthy people in the state of Texas in oil and gas said just the other day that if we, if we got rid of illegal immigration and got rid of the illegal immigrant labor supply, that oil would go to three or three to four.

$400. This is a guy really, really like. And I hope he's not watching because I don't want to offend him. He could squash me like a buck. No, I mean, he could. He's not like that. But the point is, is let that's silly on its face. Oil is a fungible product. The, the and the labor cost in exploring, and refining is, anyway, just if you go down, here's the big participants in where these are big participants in the labor part. Oil, farming, particularly in handpicked fruits and vegetables, home building, hospitality. So the idea that, so you've got, you've got to get the people who invest in all these areas on board with this. And let me just tell you,

they're not. They're not principled about these things. I know the oil executives are not. They're going to push back. I know the farming, big pharma especially. The family on farms, I think are more on board with hiring

their own, so to speak. But that's anecdotal. I don't know if that's, if that translates everywhere. Home building. the home builders, the subs, which heavily use, and we're talking about, you know, south of the border folks mainly, but some, you know, some Asian, South and Southwest Asian, and hospitality. So what do we do when these very well-heeled money to interests are putting pressure on Congress,

on the president and so forth saying, hey, you can stop the border, but don't deport these people. That's what we're up against right now. And I don't know what the solution to that is because if you got these folks, if I could spend an hour with these folks on a whiteboard, I'd show them that it's not as big

a problem as you think it is. The bigger problem, the thing that is an issue is let's say we could snap our fingers and tomorrow 40, 40 men, all the illegal immigrants, the ones who, the real problem, the ones who've been here and the last, gotten here in the last 10 years, okay, are all gone. You just snap your fingers. That is a sizable part of demand. And huge parts of the economy, economy have, and I'm not excusing this, by the way, huge parts of the economy have grown up, not huge, but sizable parts of the economy have grown up to meet this particular demand. And that's a problem. I don't know how you're going to politically, without just pure executive power, I don't know politically how you're going to cross that Rubicon. That's what we're really up

against in a real term deal. So sealing off the border, you're there. Getting some to self-deport because it's just more uncomfortable. Maybe the jobs at the margin are drying up with the real low-hanging fruit, you know, the guys who are getting hired, you know, to do dishes in the Mexican food restaurant, that kind of stuff. You know, hey, cousin Jose, you got to go, we don't have work for you anymore. Maybe that. But the fat part of this bell curve of this 30 to 40 million folks, that's hard. I'm not saying it's not worth doing. I'm just saying you've got to, how are you going to cross that with these moneyed interests? It is difficult. I know that from my pastime in apartments, that there were lots of folks who catered to the illegal crime.

You know, they might have seven, eight, nine people living in each one of their units because the folks paid cash and they paid on time. And how are you going to convince those folks? And that's hard. It just is. I'd love your opinion, Pete, on how do you get, how do you get past this? Well, I mean, I have a friend who was an employment lawyer in employment attorney in California. And he, you know, he does a huge may a cult on this now.

He defended businesses who were being attacked for hiring illegal workers. So, you know, he knows exactly how this works. And he said basically what Obama did was Obama just got all these regulations put through that protected them. And he said the way to reverse it is to, you know, you put in regulations that hurt these companies so much that they will not do it. And that it just takes will. You know, if you, if you say, you know, hey, on the second, on the second infraction, we pull your LLC. And on the third, we pull your business license.

Or even, I've said this just to trigger people, we nationalize your business. You know, the government takes over your business. Well, I mean, this is, it's pressure. People hate to think about, no, you're absolutely right. Let's keep it, again, one of the reasons I like talking to you is because you do have this economic pass. What what are the levers you can really, where I'm trying to drive this is, what are the levers you can push that, because are you going to do this purely through legislation? First of all,

legislature doesn't, they don't legislate anymore. They just don't. Trump has, Trump, they should be passing. All they should be doing right now is writing laws to make it illegal to be on the left in this country. and sending them to Trump to sign. They're not doing any of it. So this is going to have to be an executive power kind of thing. This is all going to have to be Article 2 kind of stuff. And what you have to do to get your oil executives,

your farming and you're large farming conglomerates, your homebuilders, basically the subcontractors, the home builders themselves stay out of this. because they know they have liability if they're not careful. And your hospitality, what you've got to do is raise the cost of hiring illegals to touching distance of hiring non-illegals. It doesn't even have to be the same, okay? Because there's this risk that's involved.

So how do you do that? But that's the question you've got to be asking. And that's what you've got to be helping, you know, post to Twitter, post to X, because they are paying it. The administration does pay attention to that. Writing your op-eds in your local sympathetic, you know, deal, writing your substacks, that's what you've got to be doing. So you've got just the cost that you're paying, most of these. folks are being paid over the this isn't being done these large oil uh i don't know about farming i don't know enough about it but home built you know uh but in hospitality and oil these

people are being paid over the table via through fake uh faked uh documents right in farming and home building with the subs i don't i don't know as much probably some of both but you've just got to so What ICE has been doing in showing up, I know they've been doing it some here. I hear anecdotes in other places, you know, where they'll show up at where there's obvious, you know, in the parking lot of Home Depot, the parking lot of lows in the mornings when the subs are coming around just trying to get workers, you know, the roofing, the roofer gangs, the bricklaying gangs, so to speak. that's good, but that's micro. That's driving up the cost because suddenly you don't have a group,

a sub is missing their two days to brick a house. Now that home builder's pissed because he's carrying that lot at his cost. That cost cannot be taken to the home buyer. This is what you've got to do, is these practical things to raise the cost. You can't depend upon the national legislature to do this. They're not brave enough. They've got too many of these big money to interest paying their campaign funds. I just don't think there's anything you can do to fix that.

So it's going to have to be done through the executive branch through handling these things administratively. So ICE and so on and so forth, driving up the cost of doing this business. I would love to think you could do what you're talking about with the LLC. That's hard. Now that gets into the hall. I did a show the other day with Black Horse and Cruptose on tying liability and ownership back together. But that's another, you know, that needs to be done too. That would help do this.

But right now, you've got shell. shareholders who bear no risk. So if I own a home builder and my home that home builder is, you know, let's, I don't want to say any home builder names because I don't know what any of these people are doing, but you can go, you know, go look up the big home builder stocks. I bear, if I just own their stock, I don't bear any liability if they're hiring illegals in their stack. I don't bear any liability, even though I'm theoretically an owner via shares. We've got to somehow, that's where the legislation needs to come in, is how do we tie liability into ownership? And that would cut this S out quickly. But I don't hear anybody talking about

that. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i. 4. Northwest. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card, when with options card, you can have both. With options card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers, or choose a spending.

Anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage. There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit optionscar. com.com. On the many nights

of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savor festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails and dance the night away with DJs from love tempo.

Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at giddlestorhouse.com. Get the facts be drinkaware, visit drinkaware.com. Well, yeah, well, this is why I think we're not going to reform the system. I don't think we are either. Yeah, there's no way.

It has to be, it has to be torn. out root and branch. And I think people are waiting for like, you know, their great men to come along and do it. And I just don't, look, we've had great men in the past, but I mean, they weren't in, they weren't 100 years into a managerial system. They weren't a hundred, you know, it is very easy to look to the past and go, okay, well, I've seen before where you can tear everything out root and branch and fix it. Right. Or at least get it to where people are happy again.

People are thriving again, especially the native population. Right. But I mean, I don't think people realize that that's, you know, and I think Thomas really has the best take on this. It's like, this system's going to, the United States will probably exist in some way, shape, or form for another 200 years. It's just going to have to transform. And the answer to the answer to the.

the transformation is something people just do not want to hear. Because they don't understand that the only way you're going to do this is to decentralize and it's going to have to be done basically. You know, it's like, oh, you just want to get rid of the United States and you just want to, you know, you want China to come in here or, you know, or this new thing about how, if you talk about how things need to be done locally and on the state level or, you know, classic federalism, somehow that's brown coded. Because it's like, okay, what do you?

Well, I'm supposed to shrink back from that. What the fuck does that even mean? Yeah. Give me a second because I'm going to go right on the other side of my desk. I'm going to show you. Go ahead. I'll keep talking. No, I just don't, I don't get it.

People think, people honestly think that this is going to get fixed. This guy, this guy wrote about this. So he just, well, Ron just held up a copy of Chronicles magazine with Sam Francis on the cover. And it says, anarcho tyranny, the perpetual revolution. That's right. And so this is from April 2005 when Sam died. So Sam wrote in 95, 85, I'll have to look it up. I think Aaron's done a big talk on this, Aaron McIntyre.

entire. Maybe not. I could be wrong on that. But he wrote the this, there's this tension. I think Pete and I would probably be on the same page. There's there that the best government is done at the local level. And what what lends itself to actually being very redcoated, what you know, everyone everyone's a fascist about what they know best. They just are. you want to conserve that which you love. And that's just human, that's good part of human nature. We want to conserve our family. We want to conserve order.

We want to conserve if you're a Christian, you want to conserve a worship of a moral and righteous God. You want to conserve these things which are good. And you want to, and you're most hardcore about that, which you know the best. So, so this is, but, and that's a very localized thing. So in theory, and Angelo Cotivillo wrote about this in the Claremont Institute for years and years. Faithful Catholic, brilliant guy, sadly died about four years ago. but but that this radical federalism in theory is the best is the best answer to all of this and then if

you know some county in california wanted to be the people's republic you know be a commune fine you know and that little set of people could do that and if somebody wanted to be a you know there is a county in in new york state that is basically a big jewish cabots you know i think it's I think it's ultra-Orthodox. I don't know enough about it, but they kind of run their own deal, but they stay to themselves. They do their own thing.

Look, what I, but what Sam wrote about, and Sam's big magnum opus was called Leviathan and his enemies. And it was a combination of Hobbs, which wrote Leviathan, you know, you political science folks, Hobbs' brilliant work. And a combination of that and a festering.

if on a retelling of the managerial revolution. Great book. By former communist. But what Francis said was while federalism

is the best governing rubric, because localism is the most right-coded just naturally, it doesn't have enough combined energy to take away this Leviathan, this state monster, this managerialist hydra that has overcome and overtaken everything. So you have to have some form of this nationalist zeal in order to break the neck of that which enslaves us. And so there's this tension. And sometimes,

either be it because we're so nostalgic or we're even as this right, this right-leaning ultra-progressivism, and that exists too, this very hardcore right revolutionism that isn't real, that isn't based in what we can actually do, they both missed the target of how do we get from here to there? And this is what you've also got to do. You've also got to take the fat part of the bell curve along with you. You want to destroy your enemies and destroy by destroy, I don't mean kill them. I mean take away their political power. But you've got to take the, what were the Bolsheviks brilliant about?

about in Russia, this 17% evil minority, and it was evil, but they were able to bring enough of the fat part of the bell curve along with them that the people didn't just all rise up and destroy. 17% should not be able to take, should not be able to bring about an entire revolution of an entire people. That shouldn't happen. But they did. They did. And so, you've got to be realistic about how do we and the the the principled right the dissident right not just conservatives but the real right in america is what percentage pete five percent two and a half percent that was it's growing though it's growing it absolutely hey gen z man those guys like i said when i spoke the other night these guys were awesome and they weren't weirdo

These were well-adjusted, awesome folks, but they just want things to be better, right? And so how do you craft a movement and your arguments in order to bring the rest of the people along with you? Okay. So Pete and I both are no lovers of dispensationalism. Is that fair? It's kind of wacky. Kind of wacky. I would argue that it's gotten tens of millions of people killed, but go on.

Yeah, exactly. But how are you going to convince that group, which is in some shape, form or fashion, an immense group, an immense number of people who are should be right coded, how are you going to? to bring them along. That is a great question. I personally think it's not, you're not going to convince them that you're not going to completely convince them about modern Israel not being the same as Old Covenant Israel, as much as I would love that. But maybe you can convince them that Netanyahu is absolutely evil and been terrible for the United States. That might be doable. And in doing that, you can change the argument and bring them along. These are the kind of things you've got to think about and be realistic about.

Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. so together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i. 4.Northwest. Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1,500 euro and gift cards annually, completely tax-free.

And even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card. Options Card is Ireland's brand-new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches. Visit optionscard.i.e. today. Is that makes sense?

Yeah, and here's something that I've been trying to talk about recently is. Okay, you can have the best arguments in the world, but who's going to be the mouthpiece for that? Who's a better mouthpiece to go after boomers and try and change their mind about dispensable? sensationalism and Israel and change anyone's mind, not only the boomers. Is it me or is it Tucker Carlson? I have a feeling it's Tucker Carlson. Yeah. And the people who are attacking Tucker Carlson right now, I mean, literally go to Canada and seek maid. You have no, I mean, he is doing more. And you can say,

oh, I was talking about that 10 years ago. These guys were talking about, they got canceled for it. Their banking was canceled for it. I know. Those people are heroes. And in the future, they will be remembered as heroes. Yeah. But they can't do what he's doing right now.

Oh, but he's a gatekeeper. He's only taking people this far. Well, let me tell you something. There are a lot of myths in our history. And people think that, like, the myth that they, they think that like one myth is going to take down another myth. You have to knock down this myth, which is not, which is a myth that has become part of your religion.

Right. It's become part of the religion. No, there's a myth over here that can be taken down first. And that doesn't, I'm trying to talk around things right now, okay? But there. I can, I can follow. I can follow up and be delicate. You know, there are myths that are not going to fall and may never fall.

Right. The problem thing is, is just because that myth continues to exist doesn't mean that this myth can't be taken down. And it's not going to be you on your alternative platform who can't even be on YouTube or can't even. Right. You have to put everything on Bix. shoot or something like that. No, it's going to be somebody who is actually like has, has had his eyes opened and he may not go as far as you want him to, but even though you're going that far, he's going to be able to accomplish way more than you are, not going that far.

Well, let's end up. Yeah, Pete, it's just purity spirals are not just a phenomenon of the left. they absolutely happen on the right as well and they're just and they're destructive it's why heywood was a profit on this he first saw he goes look it's coming we're going to have all these fights on the right when we gain a little bit of power and just beware and they're and they are they're destructive look you go you know if you go anonymous dissident right person who's watching this and you're on Twitter and you're fighting the good fight and all this. And you go and you're, you know, every summer you go, you get in the car and you go to the family reunion and you know, you're like, oh my gosh, none of my, none of these guys get it. But then suddenly your uncle, you're eating

fried okra across the table from your uncle and he says, hey, you know, I listened to martyr made. Have you ever heard of this guy? And I thought he was pretty good. And your heart leaps with joy because you're like, oh, or he listened to maybe something, you know, even more innocuous than Daryl's podcast, whatever it is. I listen to Haywood talk about, you know, Camp of the Saints, right? or whatever it is. Wouldn't you be excited about that? Well, just translate that across a nation and culture

and have a little grace with the folks who are picking up, you know, the crumbs falling off the table. Be gracious with people. Not everybody has to be, you know, and you'll get the mail about this, because I'm going to quote somebody, you know, as Yarvin used to say, and here we go, oh, you can't trust Yarvin, he's just another, whatever. Okay, I like Curtis. Curtis is, Curtis is Curtis, and I don't agree with everything and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I can't say the guy's not bright. He's had some really amazing points.

And the dissident right probably doesn't exist in its current form without what he did. Okay, just so leave that of that. But he always used to say, hey, you know, be careful when you say, when you're trying to screen out, screen the people who are coming to understand these things on the right from not being metal enough. You know, ah, that's not metal enough. I got to be, you know, not everybody's going to be Thomas. They're just not. Not everybody's going to be. Here's what people think. And this is something libertarians think. Libertarians believe that if Dave Smith can just get out there and deliver the message at every, Everybody's going to want to be a libertarian.

Well, that's proven to be false. I like Dave. I've known Dave a very long time. Yeah, I like Dave too. I want the best for Dave. Not everybody is going. It doesn't matter who you expose people to. You can expose them to me.

You can expose them to Devon Stack. You can expose them to the TRS guys. Not everybody is going. to radicalize. It's just, people are different. You don't, and you don't, I'm sorry, but you don't want a radical culture. Because what would you do with them?

What would you do with them? You want, what you want is, here's, okay, we're going to get in, let's be very delicate here, okay, because I don't want any of this snipped out or whatever. But let's say you got, let's just talk in algebra terms. let's say you you you folks who are really hardcore on the edge and metal let's say you got rid of people x just got rid of them what are you going to do with people y and what are you going to do with people z and people alpha and people you know eventually because i see this this happens in american protestantism okay to where i'm i'm i'm pca presbyterian

I'm a deacon and teach theology at my church and I write and I'm probably more qualified to talk about that than I am this stuff. But I see it in our circles to where we'll argue over the color of the carpet and what kind of wood the pulpits made out of. And suddenly if you're not agreeing on every little thing, then it's war. You don't want a nation like that because the purpose of all these things, you may rightly believe is so that people can live in peace and pursue their way of life in order, as Schmidt said, is that metal enough for you? As Schmidt said, so you can, in your own way, fight off Antichrist. That's the purpose of all this. And if you define what that people are so narrowly, you'll be in perpetual war. And just look at.

online. That's what it looks like. But the purpose, if you're Christian, the purpose is to follow the Prince of Peace. And by the way, the Prince of Peace who said, love your enemy, didn't say there weren't any enemies, and that's personal enemies, not enemies, not public enemies. We can get into that at another time. But there are enemies. But you got to be careful. Once you start getting into that, everybody, you know, inimica, enemicus, and you start getting into Latin terms, it's just the people who have bought into that Christians are supposed to be martyrs in every, you know, they're never supposed to pick up a sword. They start losing their minds.

Yeah, that's crazy. I just can't talk. I can't talk. The Joel Berries of the world. Well, Joel Barry's fine with Jews, like, massacring people, but not Christians. He's okay with them massacre. I think he'd be okay with Christians massacring people for Jews. Well, Joel's deal is a particular form of theology that sees a use for Romans 13,

the bearing of the sword only applicable for the earthly people of God, not the heavenly people of God. and it's just a weird hermeneutic. And, you know, he gets there. It's just, his, his worldview and his hermeneutic are obviously flawed to anyone who has their eyes wide open. But he doesn't, but, you know, that should propel us to make sure our eyes are wide open on all this stuff. I want to touch on Israel real quick. Because it's a, let's, let's, again, let's just be realistic about. it. Why, why does, why has America, why has the U.S. government, how have we gotten to where

we've gotten with Israel? There are reasons for that. It's not, you know, it's not, it didn't happen in a vacuum, so on, so forth. So we can be realistic about this and understand what's going on. Okay. Israel, that piece of land, sits. within tactical distance of way too many choke points for us to ignore. So it sits within tactical distance of the Dardanelles,

Bosporus, the Turkic Straits, hugely important. If you want to be able to interdict the Black Sea, you've got to have access to that. Why do you think Turkey is part of NATO? We get back to Turkey in a minute. It's there within tactical distance of the Suez Canal.

Okay? It's within tactical distance of the straight, oh gosh, at the south end of the Red Sea, and the Arabic name for that is escaping me right now, so I apologize. It's within tactical distance of the Persian Gulf and the strait of Hormuz. So Israel or something like it is going to be part and parcel of American foreign policy, as long as we have a reserve currency and oil is the chief determinant of that reserve currency's liquidity in transnational economic flows. It just is, and you're going to have to be okay with that. If we don't want a reserve currency anymore, then you better go back either on the gold standard

or have a legislated constitutional amendment balanced budget. Or you will get hyperinflation here at home. Because the only reason we can have a reserve currency and huge deficits in debt is because we can export that inflation. And we can do that because we are a global hegemony who helps regulate the flow of oil and natural gas worldwide. And therefore, we've got to have some presence to exert power within all those choke points.

Okay? So that's just real life. Do I like it? No. But that's real life. So how about, so Ron, well, we, the number one receiver or one or number two, depending on the year of foreign aid is Egypt. Why can't, that's also close to all those points.

Why can't we use Egypt? Or, hey, Turkey. And boy, Turkey's very expensive. expansionary so we got to be careful putting too much pressure on iran because iran was the natural the natural uh kind of kept a lid a little bit on turkey because turkey's very suny iran's very shia and it wasn't israel israel's just not big enough to to put real true pressure on turkey Iran was really being that buffer, but that pissed off Israel. So anyway, point being is, why don't we allow Turkey to be that, that, you know, they're a NATO member.

They're only a NATO member because of the Dardanelles and Bospra so that we can get in and out of the Black Sea. That we don't trust Turkey completely, okay? We don't. And this was all back to JFK, who we needed to put short-range missiles and medium-range missiles in Anatolia. And you're not redoing that. But we don't really trust Turkey or Egypt. We don't really trust Israel, I don't think.

I mean, I've got it on good, I can't say what I know, but know that Trump is putting personal pressure on Israel. And that's all I'm going to say about that. Don't even ask. But you're going to have to have, so it's not geographic. Also, like it or not, Massad, we know everything that's going on in that area through what we don't have through SIG-int.

In other words, our optical and the old system was called lacrosse. I don't know what the name of the new system is to intercept cell and radio traffic. What we don't get through that, we get by literal agents on the ground through Mossad. and we just do. We can't, if we're going to have this whole structure, we have shoehorned ourselves into this cul-de-sacter where we can't live, at least the perception is we can't live without Mossad's intel. And Mossad does not play nice in the sandbox with our intel agents.

They just don't. All the stuff that goes on in the movies and all that aside that we all live. MI6, Mossad, and CIA are rivals. And they don't get along very well on the ground. ground. We may work together up here, but on the ground, it's often ugly. But we can't live without them for whatever reason. We've shoehorned ourselves into that reality. So you're going to have to deal at some level with Israel. The problem is, and this used to all work okay until Netanyahu came along, and suddenly this turned into Israel expansionism and that we're going to be their lap dog that

that fixes all their problems and we're going to go destroy Libya. We're going to go destroy Iran. We're going to go destroy Iraq and all this and that. And we're going to be, you know, all this kind of stuff. This has been an, this has been the direct impact of Netanyahu. Okay. So the realist position is how can we fix that and then deal with the other stuff? And yeah, I wish that they didn't exert all the influence that they do on our government.

But they do. Okay? That is a long-term issue. It just, that's a long-term issue. But the short-term issue is what I just mentioned. And you're going to have to deal with these realities that I just mentioned. You can't make those go away tomorrow. You just can't.

If you did, if you snapped your fingers and they went away, it was just being. just like snapping your fingers and suddenly 40 million, you had 40 million people go away. That revolution would be extremely costly to American citizens. And the same way with this other stuff. And I know no one wants to hear all this, but you're going to have to figure out ways to deal with these realities. All right. That's what I wanted to say.

And again, you're going to get, I know you'll get hate mail about what I just said. I'm not some pro-Israel guy. I don't have, I mean, I've been to Israel. It's beautiful. The people that took me around, I did have a Mossad agent. And a former Mossad agent were my tour guides. They were great. I got to see all the old Holy Land where Jesus walked.

It was amazing. I got treated very well, all of that. I don't have any problem. I got great relationships with, I got an IDF guy who does, contract work for me. He goes back to Israel two months out of the year and does work for me who's IDF and we argue about all this stuff. And I'm very honest with them. I'm like, this kind of nonsense you're doing in Gaza. This is crazy. And he goes, yeah, we might get a little blowback for that. We have gone too far. So I don't have any problem. I don't have personal hatred in my heart

for anybody. I really don't. Pete knows this. But you're going to have to deal with these realities. And I don't know how you get from here to there. I really don't. There. That was a lot of talking. Sorry. Well, I think that's the problem is, I think people think that this is like very simple. People think that, you know, you just need one person to or we should, you know, here's what you hear. Well, we should just abandon all this. Well, I mean, that's just more libertarian bullshit. We should.

Yeah. Okay. How do we get there? How do we, how do you, okay, we're here tied up in with these insane. people, okay? We want to get over here where we're not tied up with those insane people. Okay, how do we bridge that? How does that happen?

It's the same thing about libertarians. Libertarians would be like, oh, you know, we need to get, we need to get to a narco-capitalism. Okay, so tell me the path. Tell me how to do that. And how did we get here to understand the incentives that built this edifice that we're all living in, okay? because you don't just, if you don't know how to, how it got here and you don't know how to rebuild something that provides for the peace of your citizenry, just taking a bulldozer to it,

okay, now who's going to build the fire? I kind of like to living in that house, even though it had all these problems. It might have been full of termites, but at least the rain didn't fall on my head. So you just, again, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, get from here to there, but understanding how we got to here. How do we get here? What were the incentive structures that built? So what are the incentive structures that built what we've got? I mean, just be realistic. You have a diaspora. Let's say, so the Jewish people had a rough go. They may have deserved. By the way, your series, everybody needs to go and listen to the series that Pete's been doing on reading Solzhenitsyn's 200 years together.

But it's so good. And I think Solzhenitsyn as a committed Christian, he's very realistic, but he's also gracious. I mean, he's not, this isn't a bloodthirsty screed. This is measured and, hey, look, we've got different worldview, and this is where it's pretty ugly in places. But, you know, I think it's, It's just been awesome.

It's been very educational for me. But how did you get to the Pail of Settlement? You got there for very, there were structural incentives on both sides that led to that. And then the latter, the ending of the pale and all the stuff. And then you had this liberal democracy in the United States that said, yeah, come on over here. and not only come over here, but we're going to give you a seat at the political table of power immediately.

If you were in their shoes, you would have taken advantage of that too, especially if you had the particular proclivities and talents that this group of people had that they learned in the pale. So just be realistic about what led to the situation that we're dealing with. And then in the middle of all that, here's a quote unquote, homeland

that springs up that says, hey, we're created for the very purpose of dealing with, you know, all this stuff that you feel that you were aggrieved by. So you would, again, let's say it's this, it would be similar to the same mechanics of people feeling aggrieved by the civil war in the South. And suddenly we had this federalism that led to much greater states. freedom. You know, let's say suddenly Mississippi had full right of, you know, freedom of the right of association again, that that part of the, of the CRA was, was abolished in certain states or certain places. You'd feel very, you'd have a very nostalgic view towards that and that would make you want to support that, even if you didn't live in Mississippi. So just

just realize they're incentives that have led to where we are. That didn't mean you have to agree with them. Understanding something and being able to explain something doesn't mean you agree with it or support it. This is the way you win debates and win hearts and minds. I learned this. I was a debater back in middle school and high school. And the best debaters were the guys who could argue both sides of any part, of any topic. If you understood that guy's position or where he was, because where you stand depends on where you sit, if you understood what he believed better than he did,

you were going to wipe the floor with him. But even better, you were going to be able to maybe even convince him that your position was better. And I did that. Not because I'm some kind of super smart guy. It's just you do the work. So if you want to win these arguments, understand how we got there. Listen to Pete's series with a doctor. What's his name?

Matthew Raphael Johnson. Yeah, he's awesome. Go listen to that series and understand how do we get here. Understand how did they get there in the pale. And then your arguments won't just be, well, that all sucks. Because that doesn't win anything. You may be right. You may be wrong, but it's not going to win anything. You're just going to be mad. And nobody wants to listen to that. I mean, you and your drinking buddies might, but have a bigger picture. I think Thomas makes a really good point about how you have people who are like, okay, well, if you have this diaspora here and they're causing all these problems and they've taken over, you have to get rid of them.

And Thomas is like, no, a structure was built that they can take, that basically they can manipulate. And basically that structure has to be. torn down. And there's where there's your beginning is how do you understand this. That structure, the way it's built it will not only be, if you got rid of this group over

here, there's going to be another group who's going to step in and manipulate it in the same exact way. And if it's not you and your guys, well then you're back in the same boat. I mean, it might not be as bad, but you know, come on. Yeah, and this is the factionalism that the founders were really,

really on guard against. They said, if you do this, if you go down this road, the real hardcore Jeffersonian road, which is what we've done, you know, we had the the guys that would have, we would have, that would have been on our side in the founding, you know, Washington particularly, but I'd love to think Madison, but not really, but but really Washington in that crowd. You know, Washington was a royal, not not a direct, but, but, uh, a royal, but was really worried about the factionalism that would come from going down the path we've gone. Now, it was the later guys who came along.

I mean, Jefferson became president, Madison, and they thought, and some would say it was just destiny because we had such a big continent to fill up that you were going to have to go down this path. And this is what's interesting if you go read guys like Harry Jaffa of Claremont. I love Claremont. I know some of your watchers probably don't like Claremont. I think it's I don't agree with Jaffa, but you've got to at least deal with Jaffa's arguments. And Jaffa says that Lincoln absolutely did what was necessary in order to fill up.

Otherwise, it would have been the Germans or the Spanish or the English or the French or somebody would have filled up the rest of the continent. And the only way to do that is through natural right. You can disagree with that, but you've got to deal with the argument. But going back to Thomas, no one's more metal than Thomas, right? I mean, Thomas is kind of sets the standard of hardcore. Yet, y'all, there is, I've spent personal time. with Thomas. There's no more gracious sweetheart of a guy than, than, then, then, then, then Thomas. And you listen, when he's, when he's on with Pete or on with, you know, some of the other platforms,

he's not, he's not screaming and burning stuff and, you know, he's, he's got well-reasoned arguments that are, that, and where he understands human nature and understands incentives that have led to XYZ. So everybody just takes the, the, what what, what Aristotle would call the accidents of Thomas, you know, his, his appearance and motif. But his, but Thomas's essence is well reasoned. Again, Thomas and I might differ on, I'm not a, I'm not particularly a yucky guy, but, but, but, but, but we can have a we can talk about that and be but but you can't be more you can't be any more just gracious in the sense of of the way Thomas presents his arguments the way Thomas talks through Thomas can is one of those guys who can make both sides of the argument he knows both sides

he has studied both sides he can dissect be like that don't just think oh Tom Thomas is metal, you know, and I'm going to really listen to the guy. He's incredible in how he can really gently take you through. Don't listen to the way he talks about Watergate. I think you just reposted the Watergate thing not too long ago. Yeah. The series on Watergate. Listen to how he measuredly takes you through that entire process, this seemingly complex deal.

Whereas if I talked about it, I'd just be like, Yeah, John Dean deserves to burn forever and ought to have been improved. You know, anyway, I've said enough about that. And I'm going to have to go here pretty quick. Yeah, I know you. I know you have stuff to do. All right. So we'll end it the way we always ended.

Please. You know, it's funny as I have notes here that we didn't even get to. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's fine. It's fine. No, I think what we said will get me in enough trouble with enough people. and I really don't care.

I mean, at this point, it's like, I mean, I don't even read the comments anymore. I mean, I will read the comments, but most of the time, half the time I'm reading comments and rolling my eyes. Because, I mean, people just, I don't know. I don't know what they're expecting. What a realistic vision of the way forward is for most people. And I'm trying to lay it out and trying to share how I think it's going to happen. And I think people are people think that this can be solved overnight. And it wasn't built overnight.

So, all right. Tell people where they can find your stuff and we'll get you out of here. Okay. I've got a substack. It's easy to find Ronald Dodson or Ron Dodson. I don't even remember. But you find me on Twitter, Ronald Dodson. You can, I've written for, I just got published by the Blaze.

I wrote about Epstein. the Blaze Media. That's a big, that's a big platform. And they were gracious enough to publish me and have asked me back. I've written for Claremont Institute's American Mind. I wrote a series on what I think power projection and foreign policy should look like going forward. And then I write often on more faith-based stuff, theology and the political theology, basically, for American reformer. And, but come find me on Twitter.

If you disagree, just be nice. You know, I love people. You should too. Even if you disagree with them, disagree with public enemies. And you can disagree with individuals, but don't hate them. It's not going to, it's bad for your, it's bad for your heart. It's bad for your soul. But disagree, you know, disagree vociferously.

But if you disagree with me, come find me on Twitter. we can talk amicably and then hug it out. How's that? But that's where I am. And I'm on, shoot, I'm on with Jay Burden and I'm on with Isker and CJ a bunch. I'm here, I show up here with Pete when he's gracious enough to invite me and any other podcast near you. Thanks, Ron.

Take care of yourself, right? Thanks. Thanks for having me, Pete. Of course. Thank you.