The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1320: Pre-1945 German/Islam Relations w/ Thomas777 - Pt. 2

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

63 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.We continue our break from the 30 Years War series. Thomas continues a short series on pre-1945 Germany's relationship with the Moslem world.Radio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Buy Me a CoffeeThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas' WebsiteThomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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SSE E E E E E Eriticity brings a cleaner, a greener energy. SSE E E E E E Eriticity, a different kind of energy. Kind of energy. If you want to get the show early and ad-free, head on over to the piquinoes show.com. There you can choose from where you wish to support me. Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me about this, even though I think on the last ad, I stated it pretty clearly.

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Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekina Show. Thomas is back for part two talking about the relationship between Islam and not only the Third Reich, but, you know, you talked about the. Kaiser years in the first part. So jump right in. Thanks. Yeah, and subsequently, I at least want to dedicate a brief addendum to discussing the post-war resistance and exile. And how that dovetailed with the cause of Palestinian liberation and Pan-Islamic consciousness generally. I think we got into some of that when we were talking about the post-war

diaspora of national socialist in exile. We were talking about how Der Vague, which Johann von Weir's, as well as Otto Riemer and Hans Rudel, was a major contributor to, both in terms of his work product and capital investment. And when Argentina was no longer a friendly environment for that sort of partisan activity, going to Peron being forced out of office, Von Lear's made his way to the court of Nassar and Egypt and Syria in particular were very much the loci of that kind of partisan activity. And that's significant because that

plays into the, not just the military culture of the region on the Arab side, many of whom were trained by former national

socialist and Vermox veterans, but also it impacted the culture of resistance in profound ways. And that's something that's overlooked. And we talked a bit about the odd dialectics of the DDR and the Rote Army fraction. And Horstimaller, obviously the element he was representing when he was on the ground

and the Levant was that of the DDR and the Rote Army fraction. but he did a lot to facilitate deep contact and operational interdependence with the Popular Front for the liberation of Palestine and the nascent PLO and things. And this all ties together, not just conceptually, but in terms of a common nucleus of operative fact, if that makes sense I let me see I try to

indicate in my outlines where I leave off so if I'm repeating myself please let me know I think speaking of I raised Von Lears because I if memory serves we left off talking about

Von Lears and some of his work early on and after the National Socialist Revolution as early as 934-35 he was attempting to create good offices with, you know, European Muslims in the Balkans, as well as with elements in Palestine and behind the proverbial wire in the Soviet Union. and Van Lear is very much had the ear of Goebbels as time went on. Gerbils actually, through the propaganda ministry,

he instructed the press to paint a positive image of Islam, or at least not a negative one. This long proceeded to war. And he urged journalists under the penultial, number of the propaganda ministry to give credit to the Islamic world as a cultural factor that plays a historically significant role in the historical process. And that alliance between the national socialist cause and pan-Islamism. and the liberation of the Holy Land is, you know, completely commensurate with a component of a National Socialist Velt'spolitik.

You know, and this is important for a few reasons. It says light not just on the deep ideological culture and philosophical disposition to national socialism. It's standard bears, but also it's yet another rebuttal of the claim that the Third Reich was this provincial state that didn't understand the cultural and strategic situation outside of immediate battle theaters. And this preposterous for a lot of reasons, many of which are obvious. Germany was a very cosmopolitan country, not in the modern pejorative sense. I mean, in the 19th and early 20th century European sense. Von Leer is, of course, too, he was a linguist. He was fluent in something like 13 different dialects.

He was a cultural anthropologist, I mean, what we consider a cultural anthropologist. He was a philologist. He was an expert on Islam and Oriental societies. And he was very much a Wright Higalian. And he wrote an essay, probably his most famous essay, and it's fairly accessible online. I don't know if you can find a translation that's not corrupted by AI Slop.

But it was titled, uh, Judaism and Islam is opposites and in Hegelian terms von Leer is viewed Islam as the dialectical antithesis of Judaism and a splendid repudiation of it and he said that that's one of the reasons why the caliphate wasn't subverted by a hostile Jewish element within because these recalcitrant people were locked behind ghetto walls and every aspect of the Islamic cultural social and legal code precluded them mobilizing in a possible capacity to wage war

from within by subterfuge or any other way and uh whether anybody accepts that perspective or not or think that it is merit within the Hegelian paradigm or without, it's a fascinating theory. And I highly recommend any of Von Lear's essays that you can run down. I mean, admittedly, I've got a discreet interest in the subject matter. And it's relevant to my own research. But aside from that, I believe it's essentially having a complete understanding in conceptual terms of the Third Reich and the National Socialist ideological culture. A new year brings new challenges.

Convert those challenges into sales and let Grenca help grow your business through smart leasing investment. Do you know Grenca finance IT hardware and software, factory and industrial machinery, telecoms and CCTV, medical and dental equipment, hotel and retail equipment, office furniture and so much more. Call Grinke on 0192-92-400 or see Grinca.e for your local office. That's GREMKE. Ireland's business future starts here today. Introducing Air Business, Secure Managed Solutions for All. We work with your business to deliver secure, managed cloud, network, workplace and mobile solutions, tailored end to end and designed to fit your exact business needs. We're here 24-7 whenever you need us.

Get real support from real people with real solutions. Visit airbusiness.i and let's talk. Airbusiness, secure, managed solutions for all. SSE Eartricity brings a different kind of energy. So you can bring your, we're going to enjoy this hike even if it kills us. Energy. Or your, how hard can this DIY thing really be? Even your fourth coffee has just kicked in energy.

Whatever energy you bring to the world, SSE Eartricity brings a cleaner or greener energy. SSE Eertricity, a different kind of energy. And Van Leer's wasn't alone in his overall perspectives. Ferdinand Klaus, he was a well well, regarded racial theorist. And he was an associate of Hans Gunther,

Hans F. K. Gunter, who was another well-known racialist. Both these guys are profile comparable to Houston's Stuart Chamberlain or Lothrop Stodd for comparison. Plus, his book,

Ross Unsel. Ross Unseil. race and soul was for all practical purpose as a bestseller if memory serves and

for different reasons the data that he cited because again he Klaus and Gunter both had very much

a materialist view of race but they were in substantial agreement with Julius Evela and René Geynon in suggesting a basic affinity between the master castratum of the Nordic race and that of the caliphate in other words Islam was emergent and curated by the natural racial overcast within Darl Islam. And that's one of the reasons it's so splendidly tailored

to this integral concept of sovereignty, where every man is in his place and the caste system remains undisturbed because it emerges from the natural hierarchy within, you know, the Oriental paradigm from where it was emerging. Klaus wrote reports to the S-S-Hed office on political effects. affairs and strategic matters relating to anthropological considerations. And he wrote a paper that was submitted titled Preparation of an Operation for Winning Over the Islamic Peoples. And within it, he reflected on the good offices between the Kaiser Reich and the Ottoman Empire.

He talked about the warrior heritage of many of the step people who were, you know, very, very much culturally Muslim. And he said it's important to emphasize similarities in Velt and Schum between national socialist doctrine and ethics and the Koran. You know, and that's very interesting. And to be clear, Klaus wasn't suggesting that national socialism was intended as some sort of irisots religion. I know that that's something a lot of anti-fascists like to claim and bandy. He was acknowledging that the Islamic faith structure is very, very different than religion in the Occident. It's the integral aspects of it that are significance. because Islam is a political doctrine, an ethical disposition, as well as the theological system,

and that's what's key. And if you're a Hegelian, which essentially everybody associated what the Third Reich was, to some degree or another, you view the development of religiosity, as being very much bound up with the dialectical process within the relevant culture. And the variables that, the historical variables that created Islam were very congress with those that gave rise to national socialism. particularly the perennial existential Ross and Krieg against the Jew. So it's not really a stretch.

You know, and again, you've got to understand the conceptual parameters of the time and place that these ideas were being postulated. There was a... unique receptivity, actual potential. You know, a lot of people who otherwise know the subject matter are overly dismissive of that. Interestingly, Klaus, after the war, he abandoned biological racialism. He remained an Orientalist academic. academic and he ultimately converted to Islam. That was the case with Carl Wolf, the SS

adjutant to the permanent SS adjutant to the furor. Later he he commanded troops in the field and he was highly decorated. He wasn't just a parade ground soldier. But he's a fascinating guy in in David Irving's true Himmler which is a great book I I understand some people's lament that it you can tell that it was intended to be two volumes and you know the infirmity of old age that strikes us all down struck Irving before you complete it but what there is of it is just fantastic. But anyway, Carl Wolf's testimony is cited extensively.

Anyway, Carl Wolf's daughter, Fatima Grimm, she married a Czech-Bosniak Muslim guy, and she converted to Islam, and she became an Islamic theologian, and she wrote extensively on jihad. is a concept. A new year brings new challenges. Convert those challenges into sales and let Grenca help grow your business through smart leasing investment. Do you know Greenka finance IT hardware and software,

factory and industrial machinery, telecoms and CCTV, medical and dental equipment, hotel and retail equipment, office furniture, and so much more. Call Grinke on 0192-92-400 or see greinca.e for your local office. That's GREMKE. Ireland's business future starts here today

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Airbusiness secure managed solutions for all. SSE Eartricity brings a different kind of energy. So you can bring your, we're going to enjoy this hike even if it kills us. Energy. Or your, how hard can this DIY thing really be? Energy. Even your fourth coffee has just kicked in.

Energy. Whatever energy you bring to the world, SSE E E E E E Eriticity brings a cleaner, a greener energy. SSE E E E E E Eriticity, a different kind of energy. kind of energy. And I realized Klaus and Fatima Grimm and people like, Ahmed Huber, who was a fascinating personage. I believe Huber would have been indicted after 9-11 had he not died,

but that's a subject or a discussion for another day. I realize these people are outliers. I'm not suggesting that it's normative or, some sort of natural progression within German cultural dialectics to convert to Islam. I've got tremendous respect for Islam, but I could never imagine converting to Islam, with the exception of somebody like René Dinone, who truly went native. I mean, living among Muslims and living in the Orient for essentially his whole life, that's a different phenomenon.

However, with those qualifiers, there is some sort of internal logic, especially consider the catastrophe of the day of defeat and the subsequent occupation. There is some sort of internal logic to the peculiar spiritual journey of Von Lear's of Fatima Graham, of Klaus, I believe,

But I'm sure the rebuttal of that is that that's speculation. And there was others too. There was other academic writers. Schmitz, Lindemann, Reichhardt, who posited not just an alliance at geostrategic convenience, but an ideological affinity between Islam and the next. National Socialist State on Hegelian grounds. Lindemann went as far as to say that and some of the propaganda that he drafted,

intended for Islamic societies, said the pure principle is the Occidental variant of, you know, the principle that animates, caliphate you know and um right guard knew the Quran very well so he was able to cite passages that conveyed the notion that Muhammad was the the fear of the believers and subsequently the caliph represented that role you know and um but he made clear that the fear is comparable to the He's not suggesting the fear as a prophet. You know, it was very intelligently tailored for its purpose.

You know, and of course, Muslims were under tremendous pressure by the communists. You know, they were targeted as severely as Orthodox Christians were. You know, and that also provided in. avenue of ingress for this kind of discursive affinity and after

as early as 1936 the major transmitter of German propaganda to the Mediterranean and North Africa and the Middle East was in Zesson which was a small town south of Berlin

and it housed at the time one of the most powerful shortwave transmitters in the world. It had been built for the transmit for the 1936 Olympics. And after 19, as of 1939, the broadcast station is Zessen. It brought, it had an Arabic broadcast every day, you know, intended for Turks. Iranians, Muslims who were then within the British Raj. There was a journalist Gustav Boffinger who headed up what was called the Orient office of the radio station. They had 70 or 80 permanent staff members, you know, type as translators, announcers.

And as the war went on, it broadcasts not only in standard Arabic, but in Berber and in some of these Caucasus languages too. There was an Egyptian emigrate named a Eunice Bari, who was a big national socialist. And he was a permanent fixture at the Zesson radio station. he's he he's a shadowy guy he disappeared at some point and it's pretty it's pretty clear if he wasn't murdered he disappeared into the into the middle east and and probably took it a new identity and ended up similarly in the court of nasser or or in Syria but um you know this in the Zeson, the Oriental broadcast from Zestan, they continued until just a month before the day of defeat, you know, in April, 9045. So it was a major thing.

We've got to get into the life and times of Mohammed Amin al-Husini for this to be anything approaching complete discussion. So forgive me for changing gears to, you know, like a biographical discussion. You know, of course, Hussein was the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. And he's a man who's very much lied about, which comes as no surprise. Not only was he a Palestinian and a significant man in Sunni Islam. But, you know, he also was allied. the ex's cause. So that's sort of a perfect stormic characteristics that, you know,

make on a target for slanders of the most hostile sort. He was pretty indisputably the most powerful leader of the Palestinian national movement during British rule over what before had been an Ottoman fiefdom for those that don't know from approximately

1917 until 1948 that was the period of British rule over Palestine and the Mufti was he reminds me very much a Said Kutab in his disposition

you know people suggest he talked at both sides of his mouth on the issue of violent partisan activity you've got to understand the role of a the Mufti

like a Mufti is a learned man in Islamic jurisprudence and Sunni's put a premium on on interpretation and application of the law so a Mufti he's not a governor

as we think of it and he's not a priest either he's uh he's one part sort of a learned wise man within the tribe and one part intermediary between the congregation of the faithful and the outsider or secular authority you know um and a lot of both zionists and out of court historians, either out of ignorance or because they're touting the prejudice as the former, they claim, oh, the British invented the office of the grand Mufti to have some sort of figurehead on the ground, this, you know, to

to mitigate the difficulties of directly ruling over a Muslim population. That's not true. That's ridiculous. They British recognized him as the grand Mufti of Jerusalem and seated authority over Islamic holy sites to him. But you're talking about a role and a title and a function of Mufti that spans a thousand years. Okay. But to bring it back to some of the similarities in Himad Khutib and another,

Islamic jurist types. There's a complex interplay between how a good Muslim relates to secular authority and how he manages a situation and such as that

the Palestinians were in vis-a-vis the occupation. They knew that some sort of race war was coming and that the Zionists wanted to ethnically cleanse them. they knew the British would be leaving at some point and they knew that if a national state was going to be realized they would have to make that divorce from British rule amicable. And finally, a mofdi is not a general and he's not a guerrilla fighter or a soldier. I mean, if he's called late on his life for jihad, that's what he must do, and he will do if he's worthy of the title.

But, you know, he's, it's not his role to devise military solutions under conditions of occupation. It's his job to keep the people safe, you know, and to interpret the law. laid down by the governing structure in a way that allows from Islamic life to be realized. You know, and beyond that, too, I'm not a Koran scholar, but so, you know, just, I just want to get that out there. But when armed revolt is permissible under the Koran, there's very discreet conditions for that. You know, even an apostate occupier or Kelly, if he protects Islam and allows Muslims to freely worship, it's not just a righteous to overthrow him or to disobey him. You know, and so there's that, obviously, you know, he's a hate target of mainstream historians in the Anglifer.

but even a lot of Muslims, some people try and paint them as some sort of extremist, quasi-national socialist. On the other hand, a lot of passionate people behind the Palestinian cause, you know, they view them as some sort of Machiavellian intriguer, you know, who didn't do enough to protect Palestine. That's misguided, in my opinion. you know um he was as partisan as he as was appropriate to the circumstances and the fact that he the fact that he got a personal audience that off hitler is pretty remarkable and the way that came about is fascinating too and i'll get into that but you know the on the one hand uh hitler was cunning in who he would curate good offices with but it's

it wasn't some foregone conclusion Hitler would meet whoever the grand Mufti of Palestine was, why would he? I mean, basically the by force of personality and the persuasiveness of his polemic and his own sort of cunning and intriguing

because he was something of an intriguer that's not a slander is what brought him into a face-to-face meeting with the furor and that's pretty extraordinary. You know, whatever's flaws that have to be acknowledged. You know, and it's also, too, the circumstances on the ground in Palestine,

I mean, to say nothing of the war years, but from the conclusion, from the fall of the Ottoman Empire, until, you know, the declaration of the Zionist state and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, There was an incredibly unstable and not just fluid, but actively chaotic situation on the ground and the Levant. You know, the, the Mofti's views changed in accordance with the security situation and the historical situation. You know, there was basically at least two distinct phases. You know, from 1917, when the British or British.

arrived until about 1936, where he was like Sayy Kutab, a kind of cautious, pragmatic, traditional leader in the Mufti role, you know, cooperating with British officials while uncompromisingly opposing Zionism. And then there was the exile phase. The Mufti was exiled. The Mufti was exiled. after the Arab Revolt, which was catastrophic. Not his exile, I mean the outcome of the Arab Revolt. But rightly or wrongly, he was swept up in the reaction of the crown to the revolutionary situation on the ground, and he was identified as a partisan actor, if not a,

an architect of the rebellion but after he was understandably bitter being exiled from his home you know and again the husseini family has a powerful and distinct heritage to this day they they remain important people in theater um but he became he became increasingly radical and he gravitated ultimately to the axis and he did become a partisan you know he ultimately

he became essentially gotlocked burger's right-hand man in recruiting and mobilizing Muslim populations to the Vafana SS Now, again, too, you know, Husani had been, he'd come up through the Ottoman system. You know, the Hussein family, they were the most prominent political Palestinian family who were the direct intermediary for generations between the Palestinians and the Ottoman overlords.

you know so i mean exiling him was was no small thing and he wasn't uh he wasn't some upstart careerist or some random imam you know who insinuated himself into a clerical and partisan role going to a nascent and then fully realized crisis situation you know so that it's all these things are all these things are important to consider what uh oh i want to give me one second just to find my citation here i'm sorry i wanted to i wanted to get into how um how the grand moved he got an audience with hitler um another personage who was essential to the development of the Third Reich's relationship with the grand Mufti, but Islamic populations generally, was a German officer named Wilhelm Hintersatz, also known as Harun al-Rashid Bay.

He was an SS Stendartan Fuhr. He was born in Brandenburg, and during World War II, he commanded the eastern Mazars. Muslim division, us Turkisher Wafanwebant division, which was this sort of cosmopolitan pastiche of Cossacks, Turkmen, Azeris, you name it. But El Rashid, during the First World War, he served on the general steps. of the Ottoman Empire with Inver Pasha, who was one of the young Turks for those in middle of history. And during his time there, two things happened. He developed a strong admiration for Otto Lehman von Sanders, who he met. Sanders was this Prussian aristocrat,

who was a non-observant racial Jew, who became this hero of the Ottoman Empire after spending his life there and and training their people and waging war when the Ottoman Empire went to war and command to Turkish troops. El Rashid wrote a biography of Sanders later that got published in Berlin in the 30s

that got a lot of fanfare. Anyway, during the war, during the Great War, he converted to Islam and then he, that's when he became Haru and al-Rashid B. After his conversion, he met up with, as the Great War

was ending, there was a whole glut of POWs from the Russian Empire at Woonstdorf camp. And he met a bunch of Muslim POWs who had

been drafted into the Tsarist army. And they further schooled him in Islam. And he developed an interest also in the Russian way of war. Because looking forward, it was clear that, you know, the Soviet Union was going to be the prime geostrategic actor, not just in Europe and not just contra Germany, but you know across this entire planet um because he was a an Aryan Moslem and an experienced combat officer and he was multilingual and he had the implicit trust of other Muslims he was recruited by Italian intelligence when they went to war in Ethiopia you know so he served

served Il Duce and further sort of augmented his credentials. And guys who served under him, like Italians and Germans, you know, who said it was uncanny that they said he, quote, prayed without timidity in a mosque. And quote, he had the implicit trust of the native Mohammedians who saw him as a fellow believer. he also viewed the United Kingdom as potentially Germany's Achilles heel and he said and this was even long before the ascendancy of the war party but he said that the British Empire is going to have to be neutralized because they're going to make war on the Reich and he said the key instrumentality of

the Reich prevailing in that conflict is an alliance with with with with Muslims on you know currently under um hostile occupation by by the United Kingdom he uh during up when operation Barbara Rosa kicked off or she he was a liaison officer with the Reich main security office and And the eastern populations, you know, the Muslim nations within, Muslim nationalities within the Soviet Union. And in that role with the Reich security main office of the SS, he made contact with the Grand Mufti,

Hajam al-Husini. and this became a close friendship between the two men and it developed into a deep alliance and al-Rashid and the grand mufti they began drawing of a plan they believed there was two things happening here this is when the quagmire in the Balkans was emerging in earnest you know which which was remained unmanageable for a substantial portion of the war so Rashid the Grand Mufti they believed that the ideal place to deploy a Muslim division would be in the Balkans you know and thus Hanjar came about 13th SS but additionally

Bosnia was the Muslim heartland within Europe. And again, like we talked about in the first episode, there was a prestige that attended that. And plus the ecumenical clout of the Grand Muftia Jerusalem, who's a very respected man, going to Sarajevo and addressing not just Bosniaks,

but all Muslims and particularly those behind the wire fighting communism. This was very politically savvy. A relative of the king of Egypt, King Farouk, a prince Mansour Daud, El Rashid met him to the Mufti, and Mansur then began aiding in these recruitment efforts. that bolstered these propaganda efforts. And the resulting formation ultimately, Hanjar was the first, and it was also Skanderberg,

which was Albanian Muslims, and Kama. But the true Pan-Islamic division-sized element was the Osterk Vafen-Vibandrassis. Turkish Waffen-Webanda SS, Eastern Turkic SS Corps. And again, it was a, it was Turkmen, it was Kazakhs, it was Aziris, it was, you know, all the nationalities of the Soviet Union who were of the Muslim faith were represented. got okay it uh now what's really interesting here is that the other sort of key personage in the vaughn ss was gotlob burger um he was a vaughn s general as uh well as a higher SS and police leader and he was responsible for the recruitment of

non-German nationalities into the Vofnsis. And he was impressed with what he saw from El Rashid and the Mufti. And Berger decided that there had to be an effort to insinuate chaplains with a national socialist ideological education. into Islamic formations. So the position of military imam was first introduced in 1942. And this, again, it's at the behest of Gottlob Berder. The command headquarters of the SS Eastern Turkish Division,

they set up what amount of doing an imam training school. And it oversaw a relationship. just practices in the four Muslim legions as they were designated. They assigned a mullah at division level and imams and clerics down to platoon level. The overall Legion mullah was a for the Azerbaijani Legion for example was Imam Pashyiv. the Turkestan Legion. It was Mullah Inouyev and so on down the line. And Legion and Division Mullahs, they were the equivalent company commander, and these were fighting men.

One of the most famous of the imams, he was a Bosnian named Halim Malich. He held the Iron Cross and slew of other war. you know so these these guys weren't just actors or stand-in propaganda elements and it also this is a level of religious formalized religious hierarchy and institutionalization which basically um it it was there's something brilliant about it That's not how Muslim armies were organized. It was really assimilating Islamic cultural coding into a Vermacht model.

And a lot of the recruits really took to that. There were some Muslim legions that were terrible, and there were some that were absolutely savage. But this almost... ecclesiastical structure that one would have found in a company in the 30 years war, for example, you know, transposed to an Islamic cultural paradigm. Like when it worked, when the mentioned material constituting the company platoon or division in question, when it was game fighters and when it was mentioned material suitable for soldiers,

it was a it was it was a fantastic um formula and it also it that's did wonders for discipline and morale it wasn't just a question of spiritual counsel it was a way of conveying to these recruits that you know this is a this is a jihad against bolshevism and jewelry and and being a good national socialist and being a good moslem are synonymous and where those tendencies converge is in the person of the islamic national socialist critical soldier exemplified by the imam you know who was both a cleric and a warrior you know and who you know and in and not just a commander in in in um the path of jihad that we are on, but, you know, also a spiritual guide. The, uh, Ralfe on Hagendorf, who was a career, uh, vermarked officer, and an expert in military jurisprudence. In May of 1943, he issued a formal recommendation that, uh, in Muslim formations,

before a course marshal assigns punishment to a defendant there should be a consultation with the divisional mullah on the scope and severity of punishment to legitimize the military justice system and this was huge too hagendorf recalled also that he said he said it often these imams, what they'd recommend was usually substantially more severe than what the secular coded German military justice and the Vermak and the Wauphin SS otherwise demanded. So in practice, these e-moms acted as intermediaries with a European and Christian military justice system that nevertheless, you know, abided Islamic principles in its punitive aspect and this this insinuated legitimacy into it that otherwise would be lacking.

Around the same time, May 1983, Gotlob Berger, he issued a formal decree from the main office. it was on the quote ideological spiritual education of the of the moslem assess divisions and it formally identified e-mobs as the most important transmitters of political and religious education within moslem formations it made clear that the emphasis was to be on the common enemies of Germans and Muslims, you know, Judaism, quote, Anglo-Americanism, Communism, Freemasonry, secularism, you know, and that these shared ideals, including militancy and the martial ethos, the role in morality, of tradition of upright manliness and you know like all this is what brought together national

socialists of of different faiths you know whether they be the Protestant Catholic or or Muslim and you know again Berger the more I dive into I was I was researching his battle record and his career in the SS going to like a different so a related but distinguishable subject matter and he was just an amazing guy you really only find footnotes about him as oh he was this big war criminal and this brute or he's described you know kind of similar terms to martin board is just oh he was just a sort of cretentist function here not not at all and for a military man he had a lot of deep esoteric interests and I think the Bavon has said attracted those types frankly you know not not just

romantics and dreamers but there was Orientalism was literally coated into it you know I mean that's why the proud in Bukangangans Khan was required to at SS Younger School and of course Yacan Piper wrote his senior thesis on the Prattin book in Genghis Khan but I think I I Schopenhauer was an orientalist and I you know Schopenhauer more than Nietzsche was the patron philosopher of the German right I think but Yeah, we're coming up on the hour, man. I hope people are finding this educational and interesting.

And we'll wrap it up the next episode, I promise. Awesome. Awesome. That's what I was going to ask if you have another episode in this. And is that the up? Are you going to be getting into post-war? I'd like to. Post-war.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's your show, literally. Like, I mean, if you're a matter of that and if the subs, the main thing is that you're happy and the subs are finding this interesting. And then I promise we'll get back to the 30 years war. No problem at all. Remind everybody, go over to real Thomas 777.com. It's probably the best way to connect to Thomas. You can go to his website, Thomas 777.com, the T and Tomp.com.

Thomas is a seven and basically you can connect to them everywhere from there from those places. It's a firmament. Thank you, Thomas. Appreciate you. Thank you, buddy.