The Pete Quiñones Show - Episode 1397: Jolly West and DDD w/ Capitalisimo and Christopher Sandbatch

Episode Date: July 19, 2026

60 MinutesPG-13Pete invited Capitalisimo and Christopher Sandbatch to come back on the show and discuss a recent talk they gave on Dr. Jolly West  and the components of DDD.Cap on TwitterTooky's MagDrive Time Movie NightSandbatch's BookSandbatch's SubstackSandbatch on TwitterPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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If not, here's a show. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano show. Got a couple guys here. Capital Lisa Moe. Welcome back. How are you doing? Oh, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back.

and Sandbatch it's been what a month how you doing? Yeah it's you know better than average in some ways less good than average and others I am for instance skipping diner goth night at the diner bar and my diner goth friend is

going with her ex-boyfriend so you know I have I am displaying Lindsay Graham tier devotion to the target and the target is either do the peak highway rest stop or is right 90

yeah yeah or arm Israel to bomb children I am showing up for the show like Lindsay Graham showed up to bomb children yeah all in which is not actually in but I'm I mean

I'm on the radio I got it you know love of the game that's it that's it all right gentlemen I asked you here because recently I didn't event you both gave a tandem presentation and I was ill and I missed it and that's pretty much the only reason that I asked you guys to do this to basically so that we could be your private dancing monkeys there is an unfortunate thing and you know last night on our show on our show library of mass

destruction we got to we got to talk about my favorite dudes in the world Okay, briefly in a show about MK Ultra because of course they were MK Ultra subjects. But unfortunately, like the Grateful Dead, I can't remember how I did anything the night before. So you won't get exactly the same thing, you know. Yeah, for example, we can't do the audience participation portions. So, you know, I can be I could be the audience. Those were scripts anyway. We could do those.

We could do those with Mike of Pole and a soundboard. That's right. That's right. It doesn't really work when we do when we do fake improv with pre with pre planted outcomes just to make people feel like they have some influence on the It was incredible how well it worked like to me I'm just like sitting in the I'm just like sitting up here first of all that was the first time I've ever spoken at one of these things and I was the first time I've done anything on stage and I've done poetry readings that sort of thing first I've done anything on stage first thing I've done anything on stage. First thing I've done anything on stage. age in almost 15 years. And it went just how everything else in my life goes. I black out and focus on the mission like I was taught, you know. And, but I was surprised because I was sitting up there. I was like, wow, we asked like the three most obvious people in the world, the most and gave seeded them with the most obvious shit imaginable. And still it worked. The audience got

the audience relaxed and got into it. And I was. I was amazed at how well the lessons that we were. I love a chance to put DVD into deployment to add the fourth D and we got to do it while talking about the 3D. It was great. That's right. Tell everybody what the 3Ds are. The 3Ds are debility, dependency, and dread. He makes it sound worse than it is.

Actually, I was making it sound less bad than it is. Keep going. You were making it. Yeah, you were definitely making it sound less bad. Dability, dependency, and dread is a concept originated by major Dr. Lewis Jollyon West, who was a psychologist in the mid to late 20th century, who originated the concept of DDD in a study that shares the same name on released POWs from the Korean War who had been, who had allegedly defected.

And he was sort of reverse engineering the methods of the North Koreans and Chinese to try to figure out certain commonalities with sort of mind control brainwashing and putting people into these states where they could. I saw this movie. I even saw the remake of it. The Venturean candidate. Oh, the Manchering candidate would actually be more, more, would more overlap with George Estabrooks' work than Louis Jollyan West's and is a little bit like, okay, so here is,

I'm really glad you mentioned that actually. But you know, like, this is one, this is the, the Manchurian candidate, you know, because a lot of, on our show, what we do is a lot of, we do a lot of parapolitics stuff. We've read parapolitics books. And most parapolitics books, as it turns out, were written by either boomer cons or kind of fucking lefties. And this is like one of these things. Manchurian Canada is one of these primary sources that bleeds into everything. So it's mentioned in every fucking book we read.

It's like one of these. It's like there's like five or six books that are mentioned that are in every single book that we read. This is one of them. Well, it's, it's extremely, it's, the reason why is that it's extremely. salacious. The Manchurian candidate as a concept for people who don't know is the idea that a person can have a dissociative identity implanted in them that could be activated with a certain trigger word or phrase, etc, etc. That will cause them, that will cause the dissociated identity to awaken, take control of the person and execute some command, typically literally executing someone else. But you can, you can, you know, this is used all over the place in fiction. So, you know, you think of like, I'm even, obviously the films, the Manchurian candidate where this happens. Or in something like Battlestar Galactica where there are all of these sleeper agents who are awoken when they hear all along the watchtower.

So this concept has a lot of resonance. but it is not it is not really the same thing necessarily as the DDD method and it's not actually even as I mean it's not as in city it's it's more acute and less insidious than the deployment of this psychological technology has been in in reality and in the present ongoing according to us, according to us. I'm not saying that the Manchurian candidate stuff is not possible. I'm saying that it's extremely difficult and it's difficult to reproduce. So it's not something that can be distributed at scale, in my opinion. Well, you mentioned the name Jolly West and I'm sure that rings a lot of bells for people. So continue. Sorry for my diversion. No, no, no. No, it's good. Well, and the thing is that a lot of the times when we talk about these things and we're really trying to give a history of a psychological technology, like an actual method in how it has developed

like an engineering problem, right? And there is a hazard in doing this that we get, that people will focus on the salacious stories rather than the sort of more humdrum, but actually quite insidious. Yeah. One of the things incredible is every once in a one will do a special. And again, just to introduce Jolly West, if you're like looking at the nuts and bolt side of psychological

manipulation, this guy showed up to work. And this is what he's it gets... He was kind of the forest gump of brainwashing. Yeah, he's like from 1950 or so to... Yeah, the DDD paper was

1950. Yeah. I believe. You let's say, and then Oklahoma City was his swan song, you know, okay, so like every, for 40 years, which is the absolute height of government-funded kooky research. Okay, he was there every step of the way in all kinds of places that he, I mean, like really, there's no way one dude should be caught here and here and here and here. It's just dudes just everywhere. It's incredible.

Right. So in essentially, so the DDD, the DDD paper actually, and this is another little tangent that is possible to go on. It was published in the journal's sociometry, which was published by in partnership with the Tavistock Institute. So they should be familiar with anyone, anyone who studied the history of attempts to do mass control of society. So the, so this technology basically became part of the M.K. Ultra program. Jolly West made his, made his bones there, got roped in, and became a longtime CIA contractor. He was also a, you know, sort of above board professional psychologist. He was the head of psychology at Oklahoma University before going on to head the

essentially the neuroscience center at UCLA for the rest of his career. Yeah. This guy was not a nobody. Like this is not this is not a fringe person. There is an auditorium at UCLA named after him. UCLA kept his papers. He was a well-regarded professional. One could say he was a major doctor. But you know what? This is one of these things which is, I mean, it's fascinating.

We lose context of this because academics today are so universally kind of dumpy. That and we also lose, really lose track of how decidedly, conservative and Christian and to the right this country has moved in really moved between 1970 and like 1980 okay and we

forget sometimes that can the like go on the Lawrence Welk show and you will find people just casually discussing the most bat shit barbaric like concept so like not only he's really interesting in that

he didn't now I didn't not hide at all. He was on television all the time. Okay. And look it. Right. He was like he's a person that people who thought of themselves as like, you know, the kind of like, you know, the kind of shit lib, rich person that like subscribes to the Harvard review of medicine or like, you know, some like nature magazine or something like that. This is somebody that they would have been aware of, you know.

Right. Yeah. The, um, so he, he started working on this. He was involved in several other programs. Uh, people who are familiar with MK Ultra will also be aware of certain, certain other programs. Again, this is something where the salacious tends to lead. You know, if it, if it, if it bleeds, it leads or if it bleeds in multiple colors, it leads even harder. So, um, You know, people like Sidney Gottlieb, who was the head of the chemical division, uh, rope Jollyon West into some of his experiments, all of which were kind of, you know, they, they talk about, well, why did, you know, why were they experimenting so much with, uh, these psychoactive substances? Like, why were, you know, why did Operation Midnight Climax

happen where they, uh, where the CIA stood up a fake brothel in, um, in San Francisco and dosed Johns with LSD just to basically use them as test subjects. Well, the reason is the initial methods to induce the to do DDD were all torture. And so here are what the D's stand for. So first is debility. Dability is a state where the subject has lost some capacity and is over. aware that they have lost the capacity. So you can make someone feel incapacity in a variety of ways.

You could get them addicted to a substance and then periodically withhold it from them so that they go through withdrawal. You could withhold sleep. You could cause them to feel physical pain. You could get them addicted to your podcast and then go on vacation. You could do that, you could hang that parasyality over their head. Um, the, any, any sort of thing, sensory deprivation was a major one. I mean, Chinese water torture, even, even, which is, you know, fundamentally a, uh, very slight,

but constant, uh, stimulus that prevents that prevents sleep, right? And so, um, all of these, all of these things are ways to do that. But it's really inefficient. It can take days. Days or even weeks to break someone doing that. And so because they wanted efficiency, they needed to find ways to induce effective states of debility more quickly. So psychoactives were viewed as possibly one of the best ways to do that. Ultimately, in my opinion, I don't think, I mean, it definitely can work.

But ultimately, I think that what they did was, you know, realize that they had to go harder with the dosages. There are a lot of stories where essentially they created vegetables or they completely brain wiped people so that they were essentially drooling retards. You know what's interesting is you can't do this with just LSD. So like they had much trust me. He's tried. But like you're they're brewing up quite a cocktail here. So this is like something that should never be forgotten. Like this is also like not the conditions under which this are happening are so much more extreme than the average person can imagine today.

Yeah. So there are. The second is dependency. dependency is where once a person is in a state of debility and they're feeling, you know, quite under duress, you start offering them relief and you become their sole source of relief. You give them rewards for complying with certain things. You stop punishment. You give them, you know, you become the source of reinforcement. It's better if you're the sole social source.

that they have. This is why other methods of inducement, which, and we can get into like sort of cult, cult behavior or, you know, maybe one of the most famous examples of this is the so-called Stockholm syndrome of Patty Hurst. But Donald DeFries, who is the person who brainwashed Patty Hearst was a test subject of Jollyon West. And hilariously enough, after those, after he learned so well that he used it on Patty Hurst, and Patty Hurst was convicted in her part in the Simbionese Liberation Army's crimes, Jollyon West ended up on her defense team as a subject matter expert, which indeed he was. He's the guy you would want to hire for that. So, um, Incredible. So you become a source. The dependency part is you build the social link and it's strongest if it's the only one. And dread is you make them aware that this could be with that you make them aware that this could go away.

And the consequences of it going away would indeed be very dire. So you reinforce this dependency with a. with a with a with a with a fear of basically all all alternatives if you can um so that is debility dependency and dread the many of the mk ultra projects were attempts to induce that more efficient and so they're basically just doing um doing experimental modeling or various um for various methods of making did DDD work. Okay. So a lot of a lot of time is spent focusing on on the most salacious ones. But you know as it happens, you know, the a lot of the LSD experiments basically ended when we got cable news. Well, I mean,

you know, there's more going on than that also because like alongside and And here's one of the things is that along. There are other, there are other experimental through lines on this, on this, like, tech true. One of the things is that they figure it LSD didn't work or it doesn't work in the way that they could scale. Okay. Right. And more predictably.

And one of the, the, the main through line of MK Ultra is that, you know, through a web of academic networks that are still very healthy today. by the way, located in the San Francisco Bay Area. This is like San Francisco is a not, it's not an unimportant city before World War II, but it is really the academic weird, weirdery that grows up around Berkeley and Stanford, that puts San Francisco on the map as a place rather than just being a port in California.

Okay, and so like, I can't remember where it's going with that. But it is, oh, no, no, no, no. M.K. Alternate. Yeah, yeah. These academics, okay, again. Oh, never mind. I can't remember where it's going with it. Lost me.

When you, when you started on this path, you and God knows knew where you were going and now only God knows. But it's a, all right. Well, so, yes. There are other through lines. As you were pointing out, there were people involved in the MK Ultra process. They were involved in creating certain, creating or infiltrating certain social movements, really fueling them in a lot of ways. Do you want to go back to the Grateful Dead and Steely, Dan?

I mean, I'm not going to go back to the Grateful Dead and Steely, Dan. I'm not going to go back to the great, because the Grateful Dead and Steely Dan are really, they're kind of in the, in the textbook, there's special case of very like self-aware, self-referential. The vast majority of the world really moved on in 1970. But the thing that's interesting is that when they were doing all these drugs, they amassed quite a large data set. And at the same time, they were developing.

And this is through Gregory Bateson, who remember I was referring to his book last night, talking about a book called Stepsworth. towards an ecology of the mind. Okay, they started, and this is also where everybody's buddy Marshall McLuhan starts to become really, like, you know, sort of really influential, because they eventually decided that this drug shit, yeah, it works for some things, but communication technology is far more powerful

at mass scale than, you know, boogeyman pharmaceuticals like LSD. And that from, and this is where, this is why Jolly West remains with, remains inside the network and all the, all the people that, all they were doing is LSD chemistry. That's why they kind of disappear and you know, Jolly just keeps chugging because he, you know,

he's really using the mechanics of modernity as his laboratory instead of pharmaceuticals. And you know, information, analogy is the big one moving forward from here. Right. Yeah. His, his, his methods, his methods were, he was method agnostic. He was, he was, he was process driven in method agnostic. So when, um, the sort of chemical division, uh, folded and dried up, uh, it, it didn't really stop him. Uh, he, he did at one point attempt to create, uh, the Center for the Prevention of Violence, which, um, uh, Ronald Reagan, as

as Senator of California, or as not Senator Governor of California, was very supportive of, in which they would essentially combine all of the, all of the nascent technologies of behavior modification in one, in one location in, I think it was the San Fernando Valley, to sort of use criminal psychotics as a basic stable of test. subjects. Many of the works that, many of the papers that West published were basically published with, as in his observations of where one might find people who were already experiencing debility in order to shortcut the process. Yeah. There were, he even published a paper that was basically about the impacts of chronic mass.

mouth pain, like dental issues, chronic mouth pain on people and how that would potentially put them in positions to be, to have certain modification methods used on them. And his theory, you know, ever the academic, ever looking for more grant funding, he was like, well, this could be, I mean, you know, this could be, you know, we could use this to help them deal with their, with their issues. right if that they're in this state but of course he didn't he didn't actually care about the directionality of the therapy right he he wanted to have the he wanted to make sure that he had a lever that did something so whether it helped the person or didn't you know the lever the lever can go both directions is is sort of the thought here so um let's see here uh so after that happened So the DDD method as it was as it was experimented, as the experiments developed basically showed that it was possible to use media to deploy this at scale. And so when if you have high frequency signaling, right, it becomes more effective.

And so back when Jollyan West started, you had daily newspapers, you had nightly news, you know, maybe you get that twice. Maybe you have a radio broadcast during the day and you have a television broadcast in the evening. In the 50s, you wouldn't even have had a television broadcast. But you have these sources of control. And they're pretty constrained. Like you can hand like the government can handle the messaging from a small number of, media outlets very easily. And, but you don't have that many touches, right?

So it's not an effective method of control. You just don't, you just can't get the volume out. As the, as cable became more prominent in the 80s, the, it became possible that you sort of see this shift in the funding where the formal MK Ultra stuff all gets all gets tidied up, you know, Richard Hell. Richard Helms orders most of the M-KEL Ultra documents destroyed, the former director of the CIA. Whether that actually happened or not,

opened for debate, like did he give the order so that no one would go looking and then put it somewhere else, totally possible? Who knows? But we find that a lot of that shifts towards media cultivation. And so you end up with a 24-hour news cycle where you can constantly be hitting people with messaging. You can hit people with messaging over and over all day and really, really get this DDD cycle happening. You can message people.

You can tell people they are experiencing debility. You can tell them essentially whatever you want. and with enough saturation messaging, it will start to have impacts. The, and you can guide them towards whatever, whatever outcome you like. The guiding is the thing is the hard thing. Putting somebody. Guiding is the hard thing. You can put them in the state, right?

You can put them in the state very reliably. Guiding them is definitely the, the soft touch. And the, it required a lot of sort of pruning in the 80. or in the 90s. And so in the 90s, you ended up getting a bunch of, a bunch of sort of of ops to get to steer people away from things like militia movements and belief in conspiracies and cults. Jollyan West himself was very active in the cults awareness network, which was itself an operation stood up by, stood up essentially by CIA cutouts to sort of make people, you know, stay in the mainstream. It was a guardrail. It was a guardrail organization. You know, if we want to get into other sort of

things that, you know, West tried to induce, at one point he tried to get the words, he tried to make the word skyjacking a thing. And this was, this was during the whole like Iranian thing during the Carter administration. But there was like a, there was a film called skyjacking. You can see Jaliyah. Well, the DB Cooper thing.

Well, the DB, that DB Cooper was way earlier. Yeah, I know. But that's the like, that's like literally like the, mythological basis. Well, that, that it, yeah, yeah. But the, but the, but the, but the, but the, but the sky. But the skyjacking thing, so this is a failed experiment. You can see failed experiments in here as well. Sometimes it doesn't work. Yeah, it doesn't always work. He just, he was just like, oh, that didn't work. It doesn't matter.

Like, you know, he doesn't get paid for outcomes, right? He gets paid for the experiment. So there's this movie called skyjacking got made by some of Jollyon West's friends in L.A., who included, by the way, Charlton Heston, Charlton Heston, close family friend of Jolly on why yeah this dude's like by all like this is his he was correct politically this dude is what he would call a fucking boomer con it's ridiculous yeah he he was he was he was kind of all over the place but um he uh sorry yeah so this movie called skyjacking happened uh jolly on west used the word skyjacking in several of his papers around this time um there were news articles where he was basically advocating for essentially a government apparatus that is very much like the TSA.

And this was years and years before. This is the late 70s. So, and, you know, eventually, you know, eventually it came to pass. It's funny how that happens that a crisis occurs or is made to occur. and then a control apparatus is put into place. But, yeah, so that was a basic, a failed fear campaign, a multimedia fear campaign that didn't work because he just didn't have the frequency. He didn't have the volume.

He didn't have the spectacle. And so you start to see these messages change in the 1990s. You get these guardrails of anti-cult, anti-milicia types of things. Jollyan West was present at Waco during the assault on the Branch Divideons. Jolly-O-W-D-Doh- What are you doing there? He had no reason to be there. Right. Yeah, it was not exactly his Ballywick. And so he was there for messaging, in my opinion.

And, you know, allegedly, allegedly the literally monitoring the situation is right. Allegedly this is. So we also know that Timothy McVeigh was present at Waco, by the way. And they most likely spoke there. They most likely interacted with each other there. In fact, there is a non-zero chance, strongly suspected that Jollyan West was essentially the CIA handler for McVeigh. But the evidence for that is not as airtight as the other things that I have said. So grain of salt, you know. Personally, I believe it, but grain of salt. Let's see here.

Jollyon West was also one of the first people to start saying that the Oklahoma City bombing was one person, you know, in the in the time immediately after the Oklahoma City bombing. He came on cable television to talk to some survivors. As I recall it was the one black female survivor of OKC. Yeah. Was the person that they chose to interview? Yeah. Where did you find that one, Jolly?

It was Wolf Blitzer. It was Wolf Blitzer, actually, who was on the ground. ground. And, you know, Jolly West says, you know, the people or person who did this. And before that, everyone had always had always said, had been saying in that 24 hours, basically, that it was a group of people because there were a lot of eyewitness reports of multiple people. But, you know, you see him getting his news spot and doing a little bit of messaging control. It's very natural. and then but that was the that was as far as I can tell the first time and it was his his news appearance but um all all things do pass in their time and so Jollyan west uh died by his own hand or by his

son's hand in 1999 it was it was initially reported as um natural causes a few years later, his son put out a book stating that he assisted his father in suicide. Interestingly, he died of just a couple months after Sidney Gottlieb, the former head of the M.K. Ultra Chemical Division also reported as natural causes, still somewhat suspicious, timing and the fact that there was some renewed, there was some new interest in the MK Ultra. programs so yeah but the technology lived on the technology doesn't die with Jolly on West obviously and so all of this work have been done and we he died before you know he died in internet 2.0 right so we didn't have social media at

all 2003 happens and Facebook essentially invents modern social media media, rolls it out to college students, and before it's even distributed, before they even have a monetization method, they start experimenting on college students, which is just what you do, right? You're running the Stanford Research Institution, you run experiments on college students. You're the CIA in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, most likely to the present, you run experiments on college students. They're open to new experiences and there's a lot of them in one place and you know kids get wild no one's going to look right so um in 2006 facebook runs an experiment in uh message curation and so they uh they take the the feed that was to that

point merely uh merely a chronological list of things that your friends posted and they modify it with a positive or negative messaging for different groups of people. And they find that they can affect the types of things that those people are posting in response. And so by doing negative messaging, you can get negative responses. By doing positive messaging, you can get positive responses. But they also find that negative messaging leads to higher engagement. And their operant idea was that they were going to use this for advertising.

More engagement, more ad dollars, more revenue, profitable Facebook. And this is years, I mean, this is years, this is 10 years almost before the Cambridge Analytica scandal where Facebook was modified algorithm directly to influence election outcomes. So, yeah. I mean, the earliest paper I've seen discussing something like that is being directly available as 1953. That was a British paper. It was produced by Tavistock Institute. But, yeah.

I feel personally, I think the Facebook thing is an inflection point because, like, you know, everybody's always searching around for like the moment things changed. It's pretty much right around when that, with that paper. published you know yeah almost on the marks it's like huh oh there's the missing there's the missing piece everybody who's been looking for it's right there yeah the the so so what what has essentially occurred is that now we have technologies that are high volume high frequency and that will regularly sort of induce these states of debility, dependency, and dread. This is, I mean, and you can just see it in just the common parlance that's sort of arisen,

like doom scrolling. Well, why doom, right? You're dread scrolling. You don't want to miss it. You don't want to miss out on anything, on anything, even though you hate everything that you're seeing. Right. you're afraid of the consequences of disengaging. It's a perfect induction state.

And there's also a common acknowledgement that these types of, that that type of behavior is unproductive. You, you lose time doing that, time during which you've made no positive, no positive advances in your own life. And so you have to think that if you were attempting to make people passive and at least in a sense, pacified, this would be the ideal technology. An engagement algorithm that keeps people locked in mentally and locked down in terms of their ability to act on the world. Well, I think that's something that the way people will will push back on that is to be like,

well, yeah, I mean, I know I'm on Twitter all day, but I'm doing it what, you know, or X all day when I'm doing it at work. And, you know, I'm at work. I got nothing else to do. So it's like literally, you have nothing else to do. It sounds like you have a lot of free time. You can't write a book. You can't, I mean, fuck, fuck, read a book.

You don't want to write books? Read a book. But you know what the most insane thing. And like the brutal, like, okay, like the methods that we use today don't seem as physically brutal, but psychologically, every bit is simple. Like the same kind of brute simplicity works on in North Korean prisons and in, like, in, like, like suburban america and like the the thing and the thing it thrives on was is is that everyone but me it's so so brutal that it actually like such like a world-rending like technology hinges on such a basic assumption that the average person is going to be like

oh everybody's like that but me uh yeah yeah i want to point i do want to like clarify that i'm not saying that like social media is not something that can be used. Like this is a technology and it is a tool. Like we could actually like, you know, this is, you know, heaven banning your brain, right? We could we could be pumping positive things into people's brains if we wanted to, but it doesn't, it doesn't lead, right? It doesn't lead to the same amount of engagement. It's not as revenue it is not as a not as positive for for revenues so which is you know interestingly why you know say you know you have do you have X premium well did you know that you can make your feed did you know that you can make your feed purely chronological well you know also it was really bad

on X even before you could monetize your account and that's just took it to another level i mean it took it to a level of if you do actually scroll like if the recommended not like the ones like only people you follow or something like that the four the four you slop again slot pages yeah you just you look at that and it's like what if this is real you see to me though to me that's like i said the guidance is the hard part how bad the age of slop is like a total failure mode for this particular like zone of guidance because it's so obviously slop at this point it's like okay yeah you're like you're falling if you can see the crackle they're not doing it they're not actually doing it right you know what I mean

I mean, sort of, I think, I think that, I think that like some amount of mental hygiene can, can help to, can help people to avoid the being DDD. You know, if you don't know it's occurring, right? Like these, these glimmers of awareness in terms like doom scrolling, do occur. but actually knowing the method can help you be aware of what it's happening. And it can help you disengage or redirect yourself. You do have some responsibility for your response to these sort of attacks. And so not to say that this isn't malicious and fundamentally evil to instrumentalize the human mind in this way. but you do have, you do have an ability to respond to this in a way that is not mechanical.

You do, you are possessed of reason. And so, and there are, and there are basic ways to shortcut, to shortcut the DDD method. So rather than experiencing debility and being convinced of your own debility, you can take actions to alleviate it, right? Rather than just wallowing in your perceived feebleness, you can take steps to correct it. Maybe that's physical. Maybe it's mental, maybe it's educational, maybe it's economic, right? There are ways out, but scrolling about it or just taking in messaging that you know is causing and causing you to focus on this ability. Non-productive.

Non-productive. Right? Yeah. The dependency, if you have a dependency on these perceived, you know, parisocial or like sort of negative messaging types of environments, you should literally touch grass. Like, I'm not saying you need to disengage. I'm not saying, you know, if you're politically activated,

I'm not saying you need to not be. politically activated. But I'm saying that real world social connections are phenomenally more beneficial to you than a lot of online social connections are. You know, and so sorry, sorry, Pete for your listeners. Like, you should definitely still keep listening to the Pinky Kinoa show. Yeah. Yeah. Again, like I said, everybody but this one. Yes. Everybody, everybody, everybody, but us. Yes. Everybody. If you don't listen, imagine all of the the bad things that will happen. And yeah.

So, you know, there are various fraternities of like-minded individuals that you could seek out to take positive steps in your positive and concrete steps in your own life. You could become a mooney. You could. You could. You could. You could get assigned. How much better is.

it hanging out at the airport though dude well you know that never happens to me so much time in the national airport like three weeks ago i'm still just because it's the closest one to west virginia yeah i think it's no i think it would come as no shock to my listeners that i've found myself hung over in the national airport in fact i think that's probably one of the first 10 places they would look for me i think that i think that you're probably generally hung over in airports. Like, no.

You go through airport security just for, just for human contact. Sometimes. It's amazing. It's amazing how many of our friends have, um, just absolutely, you know,

you've gotten stuck in airports lately and, uh, the stories. And I mean, that's, that that's almost a um an op unto itself i mean yeah yeah you get stuck in an airport i mean the doom the doom is going to get you i mean you know like being being stuck in an uncomfortable position like that can definitely cause people to to experience i mean real debility i mean you get

exhausted, right? You get stuck in, you get stuck in some bullshit for, uh, for like 16 hours. You just get sweaty. You start feeling greasy and gross. I mean, I do. I'm part Italian, so I just get greasy. But, um, you know, you just start feeling nasty, even if you've just been sitting there, right? Um, and, and, and you just start like, you know, like, I would pay anything to get out of this, like, this, uh, limbo. like it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's amazing the types of the types of situations that you can that you can use to uh or that can that can cause these types of states so um yeah it i don't it almost seems like our like our whole lives or it's almost like it's been designed to to do that especially if you i used to live in atlanta and they said they said that um every time you tell me that i i shiver him dude i'm i've talked about this before i actually lived outside of atlanta and i moved into atlanta to get away from the you know who's

interesting yeah because the place i moved to inside of atlanta even though it wasn't buckhead or someplace like that um there was less And it was, you know what it was? And Sandy, you love this. It was after Katrina. No, damn. And this nice little town that we had just, you know, like it's, oh, this place that hardly anyone knows about.

That's a nice suburban white town. I can have that. And it got flooded. Wow. It was like, oh, I think we need to move. And it's like, and we started looking around and it's like, well, where? It's like, oh, there's this place inside the perimeter. this neighborhood inside the perimeter that just seems pretty just straight middle class and but the I I told that story to say this is when I moved outside of Atlanta and I

worked in Atlanta it was like an hour and a half drive each way so that's another thing I know people who live in Georgia who live way outside of Atlanta and work in Atlanta and they spend the month and a half in their car every year. Yeah. I mean, it does the does the LA, is the LA freeway a DDD, a DDD induction zone.

Well, I think, I think 85 and 75 and definitely 285 in Atlanta are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're, I mean,

you're also trapped in an area where like you could be, you could be regularly messaged, right? So, yeah, those are the, that is the sort of environment that presently obtains in the media sphere. And so it's something that, unfortunately, you know, like every person, one of the really elegant things about this present deployment is that it doesn't require every person to be a. sort of defecting node in the network in order to cause the DDD method to happen. Right. Right.

A, an algorithm set up to push a message doesn't actually ever have to inject the message. It just has to elevate and it just has to boost and de boost the desired information. So, so we're all sort of, we're all sort of participate, we're all sort of participating in that. unfortunately just what makes it elegant powerful and operate at the kind of scale that it does cool well i mean i don't want to keep you guys all night and everything i really appreciate you doing this um and i think it was a short one sorry it was a short one oh it's perfectly fine it's perfectly fine i mean we don't need to do an hour and a half and two hours all i don't need all my episodes now i think i like having on pete's show because we can do it short

I chain sandbatch to the desk for three hours every week. Dude, when I started doing podcasts, we would do three hours. And it was, we did three hour podcast then, I think mostly because we were like replacing Rush Limbaugh. We were like, like the whole thing was to be like edgy Rush Limbaugh. That's literally how like dinky the whole thing was in the beginning. And they had three hour time blocks. So we did three hour blocks then, but the attention span of everyone, including me, has dropped in the intervening years. Yeah, you know what's funny is, you know, most of the episodes I do run probably like one hour and send, so an hour and 30.

I'm more than more than willing to keep it shorter. I mean, because, I mean, you got to market. We're for where we have a show for. absolute schizo artist like like people who like fell off the back of like a windy painting book and like landed in our lab somehow um you know you you have like a you have like a market you're in you're in the zone you're in a zone where do you um where can people find your show so a library of mass destruction happens every monday at seven central time post-Miridian

post-Miridian and you can find that on streaming on X on YouTube and on Kick. So if it's streaming on X at the capitalissimo, it's streaming on YouTube

at Tuckies Meg is streaming on kick at the capitalizimo and you can also find it on Spotify although I do need to upload our back catalog and get that current. But yeah, that's where you can find us. And where's

the, what's that other show you do that, that I may have been on? That's right. Yeah, every Wednesday, I also do drive time movie night with our good buddy, Mike of Paul. That streams on X, rumble and kick.

And that is very different from what you heard here. It is, it is strictly, it is strictly for fun. We just, we just watch movies with our guys. Great for decompressing. DDD decompressing. It's probably, whereas Library of Magic's destruction,

if it weren't for the charming capitalism, it would be like pulling teeth. Drive time moving. It's like putting teeth in. It's the most fun I ever have doing a show. Wow, I appreciate that. Thank you. It really is.

It's excellent. Now, we did kill that we killed David Lynch, unfortunately, but. Tragically. You can also, you can also, sorry, sorry, sorry. You could also find me on the book club from hell where we read esoteric books, but I don't read the entire thing to you. In the Library of Mass Destruction, we do read the whole book. Like some other people, I couldn't possibly name at this particular moment.

we'll review the entire book live. So. 127 episodes for one book. No, that one was worth it. Now, like, admittedly,

some of the books since then have been a little less, maybe less worthy of the time spent on them. But I think our willingness to actually slog all the way through pretty much the collected great works of the John Birch Society has, Has merit. It has merit. Yep. You know what's funny, though?

We did do one book. We did a none dare call it conspiracy. Yes, we did. I can see it on my shelf from here. Dude, of course you have it. I hated that book. I hated everything about it. I, I, I, I, none of its,

none of its predictions came to pass. None of the, none of the extremely, uh, the ones that they considered mid, uh, the middle, the middle future.

Yeah, in the middle distance, which were like 1972. They did not correctly predict the landslide victory of Nixon. I mean, quite the opposite. But.

Yeah. All right, Sandbatch, tell people where they can find your stuff. Yeah. I'm not doing anything else right now. Best selling author. Oh, yeah, I've got a book. You can follow my Twitter link.

I'm bored of promoting that one book, though, and it's mine anyway. Better write another one. Yeah, I have another one written. I have another one. But I'm doing a different project right now. I'm republishing the works of John Gould Fletcher, and it's turning, I thought it was going to be like a one-week project, but it turned out it's like becoming very time-consuming.

All right. I'll make sure to link to your current book so that you can keep going. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Keep flow going. All right, gentlemen. Appreciate you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thanks, Pete.