The Pete Quiñones Show - Examining the Leo Frank Trial w/ Tyler Janke Esq. - Complete

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

2 Hours and 26 MinutesPG-13 Tyler Janke is a lawyer and host of The Libertarian Podcast Review podcast.Tyler joined Pete for  a short series detailing the Leo Frank murder investigation, trial, and fallout, including the formation of the ADL. Episode 959: Examining the Leo Frank Trial and ADL Formation Pt. 1 w/ Tyler Janke Esq.Episode 961: Examining the Leo Frank Trial - The Trial and Appeals - Pt. 2 w/ Tyler Janke EsqEpisode 965: Examining the Leo Frank Trial - The Lynching and Its Aftermath- Pt. 3 w/ Tyler Janke Esq.Libertarian Podcast ReviewTyler on TwitterPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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For Mentor, Leon, and Teramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro. Search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera, design that moves. Finance provided by way of higher purchase agreements. from Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply.

Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. ESB transformed how the country powered itself once. And now we're doing it again. Working with businesses all across Ireland, helping them reduce their energy costs, reach their sustainability goals,

and future-proof their operations. Because this is not just for us. for us. It's for future us. To find out more, contact our smart energy services team at ESB.a.e. forward slash smart energy. I want to welcome everyone back to the Piquignanaz show. He just had me on his show. So, Tarly Yankee, I asked him to come on. But I think this is going to be multiple episodes, and I'm really excited. How are you doing, Tyler? Great. By the way, I trolled you into putting libertarian in your podcast title in a positive way. So I appreciate that. No problem at all.

It's fine. I'm kidding. I know that you're, I know that you live in the real world. You're one of the, you're one. You still live in the real world. So you keep reminding me of what the real world is. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Keep it up. Cool. We're going to talk about, we're probably do a few episodes on the Leo. Frank trial, if everybody's up for that. Let's start with this. Why do you think you're, what special, what special power do you have that you can really talk about the Leo Frank trial and you think you can that some other people can't? Well, as you heard, my name's German. So no, that's not a reason. Well, I'm an attorney. And by the way, that doesn't necessarily do anything. But if you, if you went to law

school correctly, what they try to teach you as to how to think like an attorney. And some of that is being skeptical and maybe not so cynical and then just not taking everything at face value and what's underneath. So great question as to, well, what makes me is then I'm very skeptical on things. As an example, and people may hate me for this, but things come up. And we just love to take whatever our parties serve us. Kill Dozer is a great example. This is, people love to talk about the guy that killed those. I think is in Granby. Colorado goes out and kills people with his big thing because he's pushing up against the state. Did he kill anybody? No, he tried to. Okay. Yeah, good, thank you. And this is important, right? Which is,

but I think he was just mentally deranged. He said he was doing what God told him to. So having a spokesman for your cause. Be careful with that. Kappernick's another one where he has, you know, Castro on his shirt and he's talking about police state abuse. Well, that doesn't really work. So you don't have to overdo it. You can pick right people that help represent your causes.

And then if you don't play into the propaganda side, it's helpful as well. So I think I'm good about trying to see problems areas and then using the right people for the right reasons. And this is a prime example. the Leo Frank issue case where they took a despicable person, they tried to hold them up on a pedestal, and then to push an agenda.

All right. So, yeah, let's get into it. Give us a little bit of background on, well, what happened? Why did the police arrest Leo Frank? Leo Frank. Leo Frank is the Jewish man from New York, Brooklyn. He was 29 years old. He had moved down to Atlanta.

down in the south. He was actually born in Texas when he was three months old. They moved to New York. His grandfather was a Confederate slaveholder. So just keep that in mind. So he's down. He runs this pencil factory. It's called the National Pencil Factory MPC. It might be something involved in there. So you make the joke there. I can't quite tie it in, but it feels like it. And I'll just call MPC from now on with that. So he's the supervisor down there. And a girl gets married. It's Confederate Day. It's like the Memorial Day for the South. It's a Saturday. Around noon, the stroke, I don't get into too much detail. But why was he arrested is the scrolls murdered and they found her in the factory and there's only a few suspects it can be

and he's one of them that the police think that he may be involved. So he was at his factory on a Saturday, which tells me that he probably wasn't a practicing Jew. Exactly. Well, no, he was the president of the Benet Brith, like the secret society, not secret, but it's a Jewish community down. And so he was the president at 29, okay? He was a, he was a reform Jew. He had a rabbi, Rabbi Marx. He didn't believe in anything. So. Exactly. And by the way, that's, that's a great thought because that's what I thought too. I'm like, he's working on a Saturday. He always works on a Saturday. That's a problem. But I, not for him, I guess. Yeah. So I guess one of the things that a lot of people don't realize is, and as someone who lived in Atlanta for 17 years, it's always had a very large Jewish. There's been a large Jewish population there for a long time. I remember living out in Conyers, which is outside of Atlanta to the east. One town over is Covington. And there's this long road called Salem Road, anyone who's driven across I-20, maybe you've noticed it. Salem Road is that whole area. There's miles upon miles. I mean, just you catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive by design. They move you. Even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Teramar. Now with flexible

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And way back in the day. And like you said, Leo Frank had an uncle who was a slave owner in the South. So when people start looking at like, when they start having the opinion that, and this is what I've seen over and over again. And E. Michael Jones talked about this on the episode we did together. When people have the opinion that in 1913, the clan or pretty much anyone else down there, there was this large, anti-Semitic kind of geist where it was just who they were. Completely false.

Completely false. And by the way, there's so many strings you can pull on this. I believe, so there's three phases of the Ku Klux Klan. Okay, we don't necessarily need to get into all of it. But the more, you know, people think about the Ku Klux Klan now and their marches against the Jewish people, that was not the original. The first section of the clan, which is what, early 1860s to end it about 1870. There were Jewish members. Yeah, there were Jewish members in the clan.

Even the second one, which they say starts in 1915, and some of it they try to tie in with the Leo Frank case, the Knights of Mary Fagan, which is very suspect if that's even the case. It's really the nation, the birth of a nation, D.W. Griffith, his movie that was a big deal from the book, The Klansman. And actually, that kind of was a rebirth. but even then that still involved a lot of Jews or a decent amount. And I think that the pushback that the Jews gave to the South in this case for this despicable guy is actually what ended up making more of a pushback against them,

which was a later filler, perhaps even into the Klan, probably the third wave. Right. The first Klan was really a reaction to reconstruction. Exactly. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who's a picture on the wall. wall. Picture on the wall over there. I'm in Alabama. We, yeah. By the way, it's interesting when you read about the Klan how the first two disband almost, it sounds like the Libertarian Party, which is there's too much confusion. People are organization that it really know what they're doing. And next thing, you know, Bedford, Forrest, he's like, hey, I'm out. I'm disbanding this thing as

an example. So. All right. So let's, that's out of the way. It wasn't this. They didn't look at him because they didn't look at Leo Frank because he was a Jew. They looked at Leo Frank because there was,

it was only him and really one other person who had opportunity. Yeah. So let, we can walk through some of the timeline with this, if you want to. Actually, you know, before,

in some, in case someone's totally confused about, what happened here. This is 1913. It's a murder of this girl. This guy, Leo Fanks, he's a Jew. He gets, he goes to murder. They said he murdered this girl. Out of this comes the ADL. The ADL is kind of what spurred some of this. And there are a lot of ones that are still pushing the propaganda. What's important also about this is that the Bernet Brinibre that he was a president of, that's where the ADL specifically came from. So the birth of a nation and the birth of the ADL all kind of at the same time. All right.

I know I'm going to get this wrong. I might get this wrong and I want to apologize, but I do want to say hello to somebody who, after I did the E. Michael Jones episode, I received the newsletter in my, in my PO box. And it was, it's the Mary Fagan newsletter. And it's put out by the grand niece of Mary Fagan. Mary Kate Fagan, I think is her name or something like that. Yeah. And I wanted to thank her for sending that. That was a very interesting. It's nice that people are still doing newsletters. Yeah. She put out a book trying to kind of counter some of this. There's multiple books.

Danison, this guy that wrote it in the 60s. Steve Only was a big one. And then, anyway, go ahead. There's any need to keep piping out. Yeah. So, all right. So she's murdered. She's murdered in the, she's found in the factory itself. The factory is owned by Leo Frank. And there's also a black gentleman who, the stories go that he mopped the floors, everything, so he just stood by the front door. And it appears that when it comes to the investigation,

there's only two possible people who could have done it. This black gentleman named Jim Connolly and the owner of the factory, Leo Frank, is that correct yeah so to start out with mary goes to pick her paycheck up at the pencil factory now i don't think he owned it i think his uncle actually owned it he was a superintendent doesn't matter it's all family um so she goes to pick up her paycheck on saturday saturday was a holiday it was closed they typically pick it up on friday and one of the things is her friend went to pick it up for it and leo's like no no no she's got to come here herself which was not usual because friends

picked up paychecks for each other all the time there. She comes there. She's off on this trolley with one of her friends. She gets off. Now, the timelines gets important. She had cabbage for lunch, which actually comes out to be kind of the forensics that you have of this. She comes to the factory around noon, and she, and Leo, she comes to get her money. She gets it from him.

He signs off than the thing. And he is the last one to ever see her. Now, Jim Connolly, who you mentioned, yeah, he's kind of your derelict guy that works there at the, do you mind if I say the N-word? I don't know. He's considered, even by other ones, they call him a low-level nigger. So that's just, you know, the way they describe him. Of course, we're talking about 1913 here.

And he's at the place. But her body is not discovered until the night watchman, Newt Lee, another blackman, finds her about three in the morning, tries to call Leo Frank, not a good, called the police. And then they come over there. As it works out, much later down the line, Jim Connolly admits to knowing something about the murder. So essentially, yes, to answer your question, he, Jim Connolly and Leo Frank are the only two it could possibly be. Connolly points the finger at Frank. Frank now has to point the finger back at Connolly.

But even to get there, Pete, Leo Frank tries to pin the murder on a white guy. He then tries to pin it on Newt Lee. He then tries to pin it on Connolly. So he's always pinning it on someone else. And the black guys are the ones that he really tries to emphasize. Yeah, that would seem to make sense because of the tenor of the South at that point. And so, all right, what leads them, what evidence, I mean, you don't need a, you don't need to build the case before you arrest someone. and you just need some kind of substantial evidence.

What is it that they find? What's the evidence that leads to Leo Frank being arrested? So, yeah, Newtley, like I said, the night watchman. He finds her down in the basement. He doesn't even know if she's a white girl, black girl. Her face is so messed up. And it's kind of dark down there. So he calls the police.

They come over. They question him. And, you know, immediately, hey, black guy, young girl, she's 13, by the way, young girl, he's probably the one. But he's all straight up about everything that's going on. So they arrest him. Then they're immediately somewhat, I don't know if they're suspicious or Leo Frank, but they're at least do some good police work where they don't just give it away. Like, you're the white guy. Of course, you had nothing to do with it. They call them up. He answers and they're like, hey, we're going to have

to come get you. This is in the morning. They go to pick him up. And he is super nervous, like, over the top. Right then, that's where they start to be suspicious. They ask him if he knows who this Mary Fagan girl is, and he's like, I don't know. I'll have to check my books. This is all important later on because he had multiple interactions with her. So, of course, you'd know who it is. I think the night watchman did tell the police that he had, that Leo had called him around seven or eight that night, which had never done asking, is everything okay? So there was already a little bit of suspicion. They take him to the, not the corner, but where she's being in turn, or her body's there at

the, I guess it would be a coroner's office. And Leo Frank went look at her. He's really super nervous. Then when they get him over to the factory and they're walking him through, he is, he's acting really weird. So they're immediately on edge and he ends up, they take him into the police station after that evening or that morning and walking around. and they actually tried to have him interrogate Newt Lee to get some evidence out of him,

which ends up just going not too good for either party. But they're both arrested. They end up arresting Jim Connolly as well. And he hangs out in jail for several weeks. So from what I understand from reading other things that Leo, when they brought him to the factory, he was so nervous and shaken that he couldn't like. couldn't hold things in his hand. He was just, he was a complete wreck. And obviously he was nervous that he, that he was caught. But I guess the, the hard, I guess the, the, the thing about

the whole trial, or the, the whole case is that, um, how quickly do we get to the point where his lawyers show up and make it all about, you know, the deflection away and how he's a pillar of the community, yada, yada, yada, yada, all this, all that. So not really yet. Matter of fact, it doesn't get until we're into the trial where they start to, that's, by the way, so I know I've heard you talk about, he would, the only thing they charged him with were murder. okay, that was it. It wasn't rape, by the way. We can talk a little bit about that because that's actually somewhat questionable. But even then, the same way back in 1913 as it pretty much is today, you can't try to prosecute someone on their character.

And, you know, like a prostitute, you don't get to say, oh, she's a prostitute. That's why she was raped. No, no, no. So, but if they bring up his good character, you can rebut it with bad character. And that's one of the mistakes that they started to do was they wanted to show his good character and him being a pillar of the community during the trial. And then what it allowed everyone to do was to bring in all these instances where he wasn't. And some of the salacious stuff that he was doing in the building, bringing girls in, touching them, looking in the bathroom all the time, opening their door when they're dressing, all these kind of things. and then specifically the stuff that Jim Connolly was able to testify against. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive by design.

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His deal with Leo was he would have him come in on certain days. And this was a day he said it was supposed to be the case. And by the way, he's in jail because why not lock up the black guy? And he's kind of sitting there. After a few weeks, he finally is like, let me talk to someone. He wants to start telling him some stuff. The reason he wanted to start telling him things was because he then changes his stories multiple times. So it's a little bit problematic.

But when he does testify, 16 straight hours cross-examined by some of the best lawyers in the country, let alone in the South, he holds steady and it's pretty stellar. What he claims is that he is supposed to be watching out for Leo. Leo brings girls in there. They just want to talk. Leo says, tell you what, I tap my foot. You shut the door. When I whistle, you open it and we're done. And he's like, he had done that multiple times for him.

Different girls would come in. He seemed to like the plump girls. I don't know if that was the reason, but Jim Connolly did mention that multiple times on the testimony. Jim Connolly may have been projecting. What's hilarious, P, imagine this. Leo is sitting there, you know, he's the defense. He's at this table. His wife is there the whole time.

Jim's talking about all these other girls. And at one point, he does an anecdote about, um, uh, Leo Frank talking about a watch because Jim Connolly had bought a watch and he had borrowed money from Leo. So Leo actually takes money out of his pain. He's like, I don't know why you want. This is what Leo says to Frank. And he's testifying to this. He goes, I don't know why you would want this watch. He goes, my wife, that fat lady, she wants a watch and I don't want to get her to him. So he's outwardly ripping on his wife as she's in court. I don't know. It's humorous to me. That's all I'm saying there.

Okay, let's get back. Which is he says that Leo gave him a wad of cash $200 to burn the body. Basically, he says she hit her head. I put myself upon her. She didn't want like what I was trying to come on to her. She resisted. I hit her. And then he goes, she hit her head.

Then she's dead. So he wanted to have him help dispose of the body. And Pete, this might be the most. Without trying to stereotype, he gives him $200 to dispose of the body. And then he goes, takes it back. And he says, I'll pay you when it's done. So what does Connolly do? He's like, whatever.

He went out to the bar. He didn't burn her body. And that might be that your refusal or your insistence on keeping the money. It might have been what actually caused him to get, it ultimately get caught. Wow. Wow. the stereotype. Right. No one, you know, really no group can escape stereotypes. I mean, you mentioned that Mary Fagan, you mentioned Mary Fagan and cabbage. And I'm just like, well,

the stereotypes are just flowing all through this one. By the way, that, and I think it's important at some point, it's your show, but you do as a, at some point, let's talk about the South a little bit more depth than how it actually wasn't. She was Irish Catholic. The cabbage is important because they were able to establish a timeline. She dies around 12.30. She had eaten this stuff like 1130, her mom said. So the digestion and how it's done, they can actually say, hey, this is approximate time frame, which is very important because Leo said, I never left my office from 12 to 1. Didn't even go outside of the office itself.

But her being Irish Catholic is also important because Tom Watson, who ended up being a big publisher, wrote stuff there, He's an attorney. He came into light with this whole fiasco. He was very anti-Catholic. So for him to support her and support the black guy over Leo was something. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

So let's get back. Let's go back to this. So you have Jim Connolly there. You have Newtley. What eventually is it that causes, the district attorney to say, this is the guy we're going to charge. Yeah, once again, he was evasive. He was very nervous.

He didn't, you know, some of his actions were always putting the police a little bit on edge. He goes in immediately with the police. He's got, so what they had to do at the time. They had to, as a time card, the night watchman had to punch in every 30 minutes, okay? Few things that kind of set them off to begin with, Newt Lee, the night watchman, he was told to come in early that day, four o'clock rather than five, because Leo was going to go to a baseball game with his brother-in-law, Gentile brother-in-law, by the way. I don't know if that has

anything to do with it, but we just throw that out there. He shows up at four, and he said, Leo was acting really weird and basically shoot him out. He said, no, no, no, you need to leave, go hang out, go sleep somewhere, come back at six. And he's like, well, can I just sleep downstairs? And he's like, no, no, no, you can't do that. So, but the rule was, but the rule was, was when the night watchman shows up, he can't leave the building. So one, he let him do that. Comes back. And then you have some other instances, which is Leo's there. Girls start coming in to pick up their stuff. People saw Mary Fagan come in at 12 o'clock, never leave. There's not, you know, the building's closed for the most part. Another girl

shows up at 1205, she says. She sits in Leo's office. He's not in there. She waits for five minutes. Monteen Stover is her name. and then leaves. Leaves, so he wasn't. So you have a problem, which is during this time period, he says he's never left his office. Someone is there specifically that sees he's not in his office at all. So he's somewhere. And then a few other people here and there.

There's a big guy that had just been fired that, I got into too much. His name was Gant. Last name is Gantt. He's a big tall guy. He shows up to pick up some shoes that he had left at the building. and Leo comes out with this new Lee guy when he's trying to dismiss him. And this guy's like, I want my boots. Now, he had just fired him.

There's rumor that Leo Frank had said to someone else, oh, he and Mary are pretty tight. This is well before. So there's a thought process, maybe a conspiracy theory that he had fired this guy to get to marry himself. And anyway, this guy shows up. He's nervous and all. So those are the kind of the aspects that really started to bring the, I forgot to say, the checking in of the time card. So when the police are there with him, he looks at New Lee's time card and he says, it's all good.

He's checked in and everyone looks at it just fine. A few days later, he then says, oh, I found his time card and he wasn't punched in two different times. That was plenty of time to go to his house and dispose of whatever he needed to do. So you may want to check on him. The police go to his house and in a barrel, they find a blood. bloody shirt. Okay. So now, this is like Tuesday afterwards. So as they start to investigate their shirt, though, it looks like it was wadded up and wiped with blood, or they wiped blood with it. So if you were to put it on, it doesn't match up anywhere. The armpits, the corner said,

or the investigator said they weren't stained. Immediately that's where the police realized that Leo is trying to set up Newt Lee with a fake bloody shirt and a timestamp that had been altered because they had all seen it at the scene of the crime, the day after the murder, that he had not missed any punches. So immediately the police are already suspecting that, which is an amazing thing to think of. That, you know, blacks were lynched pretty good in Atlanta

for, you know, supposed crimes against girls. And you have a situation that's ripe for that, two black men. And Leo, though, is the one that they at least hone in on immediately. I wanted to go back to something you had mentioned earlier. You had mentioned Connolly, him offering Connolly $200 to burn the body. When was that allegedly? Like the day of the murder.

The day of the murder? Yeah. Okay, okay. So what happened there is Connolly is watching out. She comes in. He's watching like he's supposed to, he's sitting at the front on a bucket or something. He actually says he hears him knocking. And so he locks the door.

He's making sure no one's coming in there because he wants to, you know, chat with her is what he says. Then he hears some footsteps down the hall. A little bit later, he hears a scream that gets muffled. And then he hears tiptoeing coming back. And a little bit hears the whistle to come back up to him. That's when Leo says to him, look, I did this to this girl. I killed her. I didn't mean to. But you need to help me get rid of the body. So that's when they take her downstairs to the basement. Leo really doesn't want anything to do it. And then he tells him, you need to, we're going to write these letters. This is a big deal too. It's like these notes that you're going to put out there. And he has Connolly write them.

And Connolly doesn't, you know, it's abonics. He knows like five words, but he struggles to write them, puts him there. And it says, basically, the Knight Watchman is the one who did this, as if the killers or as she is right. It's super confusing even to try to read him. And that's when he says, here's the money. And then he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want you. Come back and come back and burner. And then, anyway, so that. But, you know, what's interesting to me is Connolly. I mean, this is a guy that was willing to take some money to burn a young girl and then kept quiet. And then when he was in prison for a while, finally he's like, I don't think I'm going to get paid. So now I better come true with my story. This guy isn't the best. Now, he was a drunk.

He'd love to just go to the bars. He said he'd pay, repay debts with beers. It sounds like a fun guy to hang out with. But it also is a lot of complaints about him peeing on the pencils. He took a a dump down in the basement. When I'm first reading this, because one of the first things I read was the, later on, Governor Slayton makes a decision whether or not to commute him, and he has a whole report about it, and he does not like this Conley guy. You know, it's a despicable person. You know, you're urinating on the walls and stuff.

But, and I take that, you know, the urination, the defecating in the basement out. That seems bad. But when you read some of the transcripts, you realize that that's kind of what they expect. the black guys to do. Like, they had white bathrooms. So he's like, I'm just doing this. Now, peeing on the pencils seems a little bit over the top. I mean, it just seems. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive. By design. They move you. Even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Teramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to

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Why is that questionable? One, they didn't charge him for that. The coroner did an extensive analysis of her and her genitalia and her vagina at the time. There was no seminal fluid found. He said that there was appeared to be some internal. They called it violence, but then even on cross. He's kind of, you know, it looks like something happened that wasn't just normal, right? So something happened.

Now, what's interesting is when Leo Frank tells, and this just goes to fascinating stuff, when he's telling Connolly that he did this, he said, you know, I struck her. And then he says, you know, I'm not built like most men. Now, there's a, I don't know what that means. Connolly seems to think, because they asked him in the trial, well, what does that mean to you? He's like, well, I've walked in on him before and he's had his head between the legs of women, of a woman, basically, you know. So I think his implication of that is like he's not built like a normal man. Maybe he has erectile dysfunction problems.

So maybe he was digitally penetrating here with his hand. That's kind of the idea. Others seem to think that what he meant by that was he was just a frail young, the skinny guy and that hitting a girl, you wouldn't expect her to hit her head and die. I don't know. Okay. So when did they talk about Connolly getting really finally getting released? So they have him several times for a few weeks in the in the cell before the trial where he's changing his story.

Now, when it finally comes out and he's got the full story of what happened, you know, the money changing or almost changing hands. getting told that there was, you know, by Leo that he had murdered her, trying to burn the body, all that stuff. He had gone through about three different iterations of a declaration, an affidavit to the court, and he had changed his story. So obviously, when you have someone continuously changing your story, when you come to court, that's going to be something that they're really going to hound on. And his point was, and I buy it, which is, look, I was supposed to get this money. I didn't get the money. Now I'm worried he's going to come after me. But I'm still like, I don't want to bury him.

He might give me the money. So he changes the story a little bit until the end where he's just like, no, this is, I'm done. I don't want to get pointed the finger at. So I'm going to completely give my full indication of the story. And then, you know, there's accusations that have come out later on that he was coached by Dorsey, the prosecutor. And I don't think that's the case so much. I mean, like, what's a few interesting things. four-week trial,

longest that they had had in at least Atlanta or Georgia, probably in the South, maybe in the U.S. at the time. So a long trial, Mr. Connolly testifies for, what, two days, three days,

16 hours of testimony. And up until this time, even being able, as a black man, being able to testify in court was just verboten. It wasn't happening. So, you know,

side note here, if you think about this, A black man testifies for three days against a white guy. Let's say this guy's a Christian, okay, and he's guilty. At what point is this not your Rose of Parks guy? I mean, it blows me away that he wasn't acknowledged as such, right? I'm just thinking about all the people who are screaming at the screen right now going, Leo Frank's not white.

It wasn't white. But Pete. he was not considered anything but at the time. Yeah, and that's the thing. That's the thing about the South, too, is Jews were considered white in the South. Yeah. There were Jewish slave owners. There were Judah Benjamin, who was the treasurer, of the Confederacy, was Jewish.

Jewish slave owners, Jews, sorry, but the black Hebrew Israelites are right. They did run the slave trade. and I mean, they were considered to be southerners. There's no doubt that's in arguable in 1913. Absolutely. And I think they actually, I saw a video and I think I played it on my first episode. I kind of done in this where a guy in the South and he's like, you know, who's a Jew and he's like, oh, but I'm a southerner.

I mean, that's kind of like the mentality is just, well, you're a southerner. And that might be more beneficial or strong as a communal tie tribe-wise than and then being a Jew at the time. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So all right. Newt Lee, how long is he held? And what does he contribute to the end up contributing? So Newt Lee, I think he was a stand-up guy. And he, I don't know how long he was held, but just like Connolly and a few others, they did figure out right away that he was just not someone that was part of this. Now, once again, as you mentioned right away, and I've talked about when Connolly is basically given descriptions of the murder and what happened, and he's implicating himself by being part of this, I think you can

rule out almost everybody else, but Leo Frank and Connolly, right? I mean, why is Connolly going to say, uh, yeah, this guy did it and I helped, tried to help do that. You wouldn't, you wouldn't even do that at all. So I think what he's saying is either full on true or he's the murder. There's, there's only two ways around it. And they felt pretty soon that Newtley wasn't part of this. Now, Leo Frank on that first day is allowed to go and try to interrogate Newt Lee outside of the police. He goes in there. They said, hey, you're his boss. Maybe you can get them to say something.

And the only thing, they don't really hear it because it's a little bit private. The only thing they hear at the end is Leo Frank saying, look, if you don't come through with this, we're both going to hang. Now, I don't know what that means. Is that an implication of I'm guilty or something? But pretty soon after that, even when they found their shirt, they just didn't believe that Newtley was. part of this so he was immediately exonerated immediately for then you know fairly soon yeah I mean let's talk about that where you're talking about a time in the south where the war is still people are still talking about the war I mean there are people alive who fought in the war

there are people alive who lost their families to the war lost their land to the war lost their homes to the war. Yet in this Atlanta community, they're willing to look past the two black guys and pin it on someone who was considered white at the time and a southerner. And I think, by the way, I think when the North really gets involved and what I mean by that is the newspapers, you had news. York Times. William Randolph Hearst started sending people down there. The three big newspapers, I think it was three in Atlanta, were first against Leo, Frank, and then they kind of come out for him.

There's a lot of, lot of interest and pressure that's just being built around this. And I think it just, I don't know, I had a point there, Pete, and I forgot it. I was talking about how they basically, at a time when they definitely shouldn't, when you wouldn't have expected them to overlook the two black guys, they went right to someone who was actually considered one of them. Right. Okay, I got to appreciate that. That the mentality of what you might think of the South as a northerner at that time,

and I believe they thought it was super country. You're not very sophisticated, and it's going to be an easy task to exonerate this guy. And then you had the black men down there. And even Leo coming from the north, he looked. He was a mechanical engineer. I think he went to Cornell. So, you know, he was a fairly smart guy, thought a lot of himself.

And I think the status is really what helped the prosecution, that the status on the other side and they're believing that they are just so much better. And that's not necessarily Jew or not, it could just be that the white status, you know, how dare you have a black man even testify against me? So I think that made a big, a big difference. Now, I want to leave anything about the trial for the next episode. When do, when do the newspapers start getting? Because when you start looking into actually the number, I don't even know if we need to go into it until the trial starts. But when you start looking at the amount of money that was thrown at this trial to make Leo, to prove that Leo Frank was innocent, I think I've read that it was.

$28 million in like $2023. Yeah, so I had read 25. It depends on when you convert that, obviously. Right. You know, inflation going where the numbers. But let's even say 25, $28 million doesn't really matter. You know, I would love to have that kind of money for it. Now, it wasn't all defense.

That goes through all the appeals that he has. And, by the way, this also goes towards much more than that, which is the investigators that they ended up getting because that ends up playing a huge part. The NPC ends up hiring two big investigation companies both out of town. They come out there to find the murderer and to exonerate Leo Frank. It doesn't help so much. So there was a lot of money rolling around. Now, you know, you mentioned just we said $200 that he was going to pay him.

This guy, Frank Connolly, was paid around $6 a week. Jim Connolly. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design, they move you even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2,000 euro, search Coopera and discover our latest offers. Coopera, design that moves.

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Frank oh yeah there's a lot of names yeah Jim con thank you by the way uh Jim Connolly gets paid around six dollars a week do you throw $200 at this guy that's a lot of money so a lot of this 25,000 was later on trying to have people change their their testimony try to have other people make false testimony that they were just throwing money every which way yeah Well, from what I understand, they may have even brought the Pinkertons in. Yes. It was Leo Frank's people who brought the Pinkertons in to investigate. And basically they were hired to prove his innocence.

Yeah. Them, and I want to say the Berks, or was another one or something like this, and there's this guy Burns. I think he was a famous investigator. He was a bit trash and he had problems. But the Pinkertons and this other investigative firm, they testified in court. for the prosecution. It's absolutely amazing that you, this guy was so guilty that they,

they couldn't do anything with it. So what else up until, well, like I said, we'll leave the trial for next time. But what are we missing? What do you think is relevant up until the trial that we've, we haven't gone over?

Well, I think it's somewhat important to understand the state of 1913 in Georgia. You know, reconstruction hadn't been all that long ago. You had a lot of, and this trial was full of, like, teenage girls testifying that they're working in this factory. So you're getting paid a pittance. Now, the ADL side likes to braw these things out as problems why Leo Frank was hated, right? He was hated. He was a Jewish owner of a factory.

These girls weren't making much. I don't think that would, because that tone did not take place. during the trial and even in the newspapers until after the fact. Now it's fun to go back and try to do it with today's hindsight. So that was a, but I think it meant something. I mean, there was crime going on in Atlanta. Maybe you can talk a little bit more about this. I know there was a bullweevil issue out in the West.

And so the Cotton was flying out there in Georgia, but it was the downtown Atlanta in that area itself. I don't know that they were necessarily doing so great. So it's an interesting time to. to think about all the different dynamics and in the South specifically and in that area. Right. And you would think that if, because the economy was still trash because of everything that happened war, you would think somebody who was successful as he was and is working for a company that's obviously making money, obviously isn't paying their employees a lot of money.

but I mean, from what I understand, those wages weren't, weren't much different than most factory work at the time. That they weren't hated. They weren't, you know, the National Pencil Company wasn't looked at as this, you know, as they weren't looked at as like carpetbaggers, which I mean, really, which is really what they should, could be considered. They weren't looked at that way. They weren't looked down upon.

They were bringing, they brought jobs to the community. And yeah, I think that's one of, I think that's also one of the reasons why they were so diligent in looking into this. And, you know, I don't think they wanted to blame, when you read it, they didn't want to blame Leo Frank. They would have much rather blamed it on Conley or even Newt Lee. But the evidence was just remarkable. Yeah. And your carpet beggar comment is really interesting because I think they come down and they're part of the community. You know, they're involved in there.

I mean, he went out and did stuff with Connolly that day. They walked to some store together. You know, they're hanging out, whereas the carpet beggar is maybe down there, you know, I'm not a big, I don't know a ton about it. But it's, you know, the reconstruction, those guys basically fleecing a lot of communities. Mary Fagan, she was only, she was there to pick, you know, 13-year-old girl, $1.25 is all she was getting paid that day. I don't know. It's an interesting time to look back on, you know, what your kids are doing or the amount of money that was being pushed around or what a dollar was meant for at the time. But yeah, that's that's kind of that time. Oh, Woodrow Wilson was just

elected president too. So we've got we had that going, of course. The the, um, geez, now you're depressing me. Yeah. And let's talk about, I mean, 13 year old girls. We, we think about that now and we're like, it's insane to think about. But when you look at like her life, I mean, she woke up and she went on the trolley by herself. She stopped and would meet friends at a place to eat by herself. I mean, these girls were because of what the situation was and we've seen it in other countries, especially like a lot of the Asian countries coming out of coming out of the war, things like that, yes, you would have to have what would be considered now child labor, but also, I mean, it seems like they, you know, it forced them to grow up a lot

sooner and be a lot more mature. Right. And one thing I was reading, which isn't necessarily how you want to grow up, is they're talking about putting your daughter into one of these factories to work is basically to prostitute her out. And they don't mean like, oh, she's working for little money. And they mean she's going to get sexually assaulted. So, uh, What I couldn't quite get from the coroner's report when he was talking, it almost sounds like he said her hymen was already broke. And so there's a good idea. Maybe she wasn't even a virgin.

So I don't know if she had been hooking up with Frank. It doesn't sound like it because Leo, because she rebuffed him at this moment. But he was definitely doing this with some others. But yeah, he was also with older women. So it's interesting. Do you call him a pedophile? I don't perhaps. probably in our standard of time.

I don't know what it was back then, if that was completely off limits. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I don't think they, I don't even know if they had an age of consent at that point anyway. So, you know, I don't think that comes until later. Well, up until, I guess, are we run up to the trial here? Can we cut this one and schedule another episode or anything else you need?

No, I don't know. What's interesting about some of these things is, I don't know if you want to talk about the news, the northern. We can cut it. That's fine. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, let's save the news because that's really, that's really when you start getting into the trial, too, when it's starting, when the influence, you're trying to influence everyone from public opinion to the lawyers to the judge to the, then we, you're probably a whole episode on the governor. I'm ready to go with him, by the way, too, yeah.

All right. Tell everybody, plug whatever you want. And we'll come back on my Twitter episode. Yeah, I just go to Twitter. It's just, you know, Tyler Yonkey on Twitter. LPR, if you go to Rumble, that's another good way to do it. So check out our stuff. But, yeah, just keep going, Pete.

I appreciate it, man. We'll schedule the next one. Talk to you later. Thanks, then. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano show, part two with Tyler. What's going on, Tyler? How are you doing? Good, Pete.

Thanks for once again for having me. By the way, I heard your show with Bird, and I know exactly what he's saying when you do the intro and you don't know what to say. And here I am, fucking it up. Thanks, good. Yeah, it's always weird. It's like, hi? Right.

You can upspeak it and turn it into a question and everything. Right, right. Yeah. All right. So after all the lead up to the trial that we did last time, I want to talk about the trial and the appeals today. So how did this trial get started? I mean, just go. Yeah.

Yeah. You're the lawyer. Right. Let me start by saying there was a few slight corrections. I wanted to do from last time. Please. And what I would tell everybody is, look, you had posted it out on the internet. as well on Twitter. The seminal book for this is by the Nation of Islam, the secret relationship

between blacks and Jews, the Leo Frank Case, lynching of a guilty man, volume three. I think that's what it. Yeah, there you go. Fantastic. It's, it is so well documented. It is unbelievable. Now, they throw a few good nuggets in here that, you know, because they come from a, from a little bit different perspective, but I just thought they did an amazing job at it. I don't know what you're thinking of it. With that in mind, there is so much pleadings out there. There are so much, you know, books written on it. There was, what they say, a million words of just the actual legal filings in this case.

So with that in mind, there's a ton of research material. I can't remember it all. I try to get as best I can out to everybody. So please go and do your stuff. Hope but don't make material mistakes, but there were a few. One, you asked me last time about Newt Lee if he was let go right away. Just make a little correction. He was actually held through the entire trial.

Now, he was, and I'm going to do a quick timeline here, but he was roughed up a bit. And then they decided he wasn't going to be the guy that they're going after. But they kept him basically locked up for zone protection. Another one was the ADL. I did find out that they said that the ADL technically, had been started in Chicago prior to the murder, but the murder and the ADL really born out of the Benet Brith in Atlanta with the big seminal, you know, the ignition for all that. Other than that, that's pretty what we have to start.

I will say, let me start here and then we'll go into the trial. And by the way, interrupt me at any point, Pete, as you will. Just go. There were three, I want to talk about the three frameups that really happened. And then that will help us kind of walk our way through this. So you had, at one point he tries to frame, Leo Frank, tries to frame Newt Lee. He's the night watchman. And how he did that was there's two notes that they found that implicated a tall, slender, black man,

Night Witch, they said, but we can show those notes as well. Remember that he said the time card that at one point he said it was perfectly fine. And then later on he produced a time card that said that he had missed times to give, so he's still pushing this guy. the bloody shirt, his men somehow had obviously planted a bloody shirt that the police weren't buying it. They allowed him to interrogate Newt by himself at one point. And then in the trial, they were even, and this is fine. You know, when you're putting your defense on for your client, you're going to try to strike a reasonable doubt anywhere you can.

And they were still trying to even point the finger at Newt Lee at that time. So that's the first guy. The second guy is James Gantt. He was the one that was came to the factory and at six o'clock saw Newt Lee out there with Leo Frank. Leo kind of got shocked about this whole situation. He, he being Leo Frank, had mentioned to his Pinkertons, his private detectives, that James Gant was friendly with Mary Fagan. That's two things. One is, hey, go and investigate him.

But the other thing is he had been telling the police this whole time he didn't, He never met Mary Fagan. He didn't even know her. As a matter of fact, I don't even know what her name is. So now that he says that's like an implication of guilt, but it also is trying to put the onus on James Gant. So there was that part. And then we come to James Connolly.

Here is the big thing with James Connolly. He's the guy that found or helped Leo Frank kind of dispose of the body. He was, and once again, we've put this into great perspective which is how the South was at that time. You do not as a black man have a murdered white girl in a factory that you work at and suddenly think that you're just going to not be thought of as a possible, the possible guilty party. He finds out, and this comes out when you go through the trial.

There's this lady, Miss White. She shows up at the factory. She sees a negro sitting there. She's there at around 1130. She comes back a little later. She's there at 12.30. Leo Frank makes her leave at one o'clock, or around 12, I'm sorry. But she had seen Connolly there.

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James Gant, I mean, she tells Leo Frank and the Pinkertons that she saw this Negro there. Now, why would you not pin the murder on Connolly immediately? He's a black man, he's seen around there. no one likes him and he didn't get pinned. Matter of fact, that never got relayed to the police until later. She then says, oh yeah, I told the Pinkertons, the private detectives, and then I told the police, so the police found out later.

But Leo Frank had heard this and he didn't push that. The only reason he's not put, and there's multiple chances he has to pin the tail on the donkey of Jim Conley, but he doesn't do it. And you know why, Pete, is because he had been implicating. him already and they had their deal going that he can't say Jim Connolly, oh yeah, he's the Negro that did this. Now go check him out because if you're going to go do that, Jim Connolly is going to say, well, I wrote these notes. I helped him take care of the body. So for me, that's a fascinating thing. Now, let me do this real quick. It's a bit of a timeline. We'll jump

real front before we go to the trial. So the 26th, Mary Fagan is murdered. The 27th, Newt Lee is arrested under suspicion of murder the 28th so we're getting a Tuesday Leo Frank is questioned he then hires the Pinkerton detective agency on the 30th so it's 26 now at the 30th suspicions of Frank are finally raised by Mary's friends they're saying hey he was kind of a creepy guy and also Newt Lee tells investigators that Frank acted nervous that day May 1 Jim Conley an African-American sweeper at the factory is arrested after being found in the basement trying to rinse out a blood-stained shirt. Now, this is important. This is May 1. He's rinsing out a blood-stained shirt. It turned out to be

rust. And when this, when, when they find him down there, why is he doing this? Well, because everyone in the factory had said, you've got to go and we're going to start to interview. So he was trying to clean a shirt. If he had done this to this girl, he would have been out of the state already. Not a doubt in my mind. He would have hit the road. You think a black man's going to get a fair trial. He's not even going to get a trial. He's just going to get lynched and we're done and over.

So at that point, you even think, okay, he's maybe arrested. Maybe Leo Frank is going to start throwing some shade his way or guilt his. No, it didn't happen. May 8, Newt Lee, and Leo are ordered to the coroner's jury to be held under the charge of murder. So the coroner does an investigation. He says, yes, we should push it. Corners inquest. Then they go to the grand jury.

Now there's rumors about some notes being spread around. That's when in May and middle part of May, that's when Lee, I'm sorry, Jim Conley starts to go, maybe this is going to go south. I don't want to be the guy. He starts hearing rumors too about a black guy being implicated. He doesn't really know it's New Lee and he thinks maybe it's him. So he starts to come out there.

Now May 21, Hugh Dorsey announces that he's going to do indictments from the grand jury against both Newt Lee and Leo Frank. And then they'll concentrate on Frank. And then the grand jury hands down an indictment on May 23rd against Leo Frank, but not against Newt Lee. And then Conley finally comes clean. And then we'll kind of get into the trial there. So that's any questions about any of that yet.

No. No, sounds good. All right. Keep going. Okay. So now we got the trial started. So what's so interesting about the trial, and we talked about it a little bit. I mean, look, was she raped?

I don't know. There was definitely something that happened to her sexually. By the way, I didn't mention this last time because, and I had to, I don't like listen to the podcast. I'm on this, I repeat, but I had to go back and listen to it and to figure, see what I was missing here. One aspect is, okay, Leo Frank sees, how's the girl, Mary, he's trying to dittle her. She's resisting him. He hits her. He hits her.

He hits her head. Now, that's not what killed her, by the way. So you think of that and you're like, okay, you know, it's not first degree murder. No, no, no. He then goes and he's like, okay, my life is trash here. I can't have this girl, you know, why'd she get hit? I was trying to, you know, get in her pants. I smacked her.

That can't happen. So he strangles her to death. That, to me, is that that's what pushes it over the line. I think that's what everybody really comes to, like, rally around. Okay, so he was sexually molested. her, he hit her, that's fine. You have a choice not to go further with this at this point, and he takes a rope and basically garots her to the point where when they're doing the autopsy and describing this for court, the rope was still stuck in her neck as they went through.

So it was pretty intense. Okay, so a few interesting aspects of how this was going to be run. So they have two attorneys on one side, two on the other for the defense and a bunch of people are chipping in you've got the first day the way that they do there in Georgia at the time was they they bring everybody in and they swear all that are witnesses in at the same time so the the prosecution's like no problem we'll we'll swear him in and the defense is like nope you catch them in the corner of your eye distinctive by design They move you Even before you drive

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and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person, so together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply free. your community. Find out more at airgrid.i. forward slash northwest. We want to do this out of later date. They object to it. The judge overrules them. Now, the reason for doing this

was they wanted to play this game and it was great for the for the prosecution to see that suddenly you know there's like 40, 35, 40 witnesses that that the prosecution is going to call and the defense has around 100 plus and they are character witnesses. There are people that are going to be, you know, coming in from out of state. They're people of his Jewish society. They're girls from the factory, a bunch of girls from factory.

So suddenly the prosecution is like, okay. And we talked about this last time, which is character and how you get to present that to the judge. And I thought I'd kind of go here of what, see if we can find what I've written out here. For the judge, what he had done. Now, this is, if you look at all the pleadings and the trial transcript, the judge at the very, end, he then lays out what the call of, basically, what you're being charged with and how he breaks it down and what you're supposed to do to think about this. So he says it's a probable cause, of course, we need that.

There's multiple standards, and he talks about the, sorry, the clear and convincing evidence that we have, beyond a reasonable doubt and prondence of the evidence, those are kind of your different standards. And obviously we're doing beyond a reasonable doubt that you have here. It's murder. It's unlawful killing of a person in the peace of a state by a person, sound and memory and discretion with malice of forethought after express or implied. And then he kind of breaks down what malice is, what the presumptions are,

and the different types of evidence. Different types of evidence we're looking at here is direct and indirect. Circumstantial evidence, in a sense. Circumstantial evidence is not a problem. People always like, oh, you know, this is just circumstantial evidence. Yeah, but sometimes that's all you really have to get somebody. And it doesn't mean that those circumstances that all build up are still not great. Now, this wasn't a direct evidence case necessarily, but there was a lot of circumstantial evidence

that put Leo Frank right in the exact position. Character. Okay, so this is what the judge says about character. He goes, good character by the defense. It's introduced by a defendant is always relevant. and at issue and should be considered by the jury, along with all the other evidence introduced as the facts of the case. However, if guilt is established, notwithstanding the good character, then the duty is on the jury to convict. But good character should be taken into account.

If that good character creates a reasonable doubt, then they should acquit. However, the general rebuttal of those that knew him prior to the death of Mary Fagan, the state is then allowed to attack it by showing his general reputation is not good, by showing those witnesses who testified to his character were untrually reporting. Therefore, the state can ask if those testifying, if they've heard of certain acts of misconduct, those is evidence, this is not evidence to misconduct unless they testify to it. So in other words, like we said, once you bring character into it, you can then bring bad character.

And so we start out and we can walk through kind of the first week of the trial, the second week. I mean, it was four weeks. I'm not going to sit here and walk through four weeks of testimony. So I'll kind of break it down to begin with, which is you have, they bring in the mom. The prosecution does a really good thing in the first week of just kind of laying out everything. The timeline, Newt Lee testifies. Once again, remember, they had several colored men as they dictated on the transcript,

Newt Lee, Jim Connolly, and they had not really ever had the right to testify before in Georgia. The 14th Amendment was put in place specifically for that, what, 1866, to try to institute the fact that in all the states, they would say that people can actually testify in court, have their due process. So we have Jim Connell and Newt comes in, testifies, does a great job. And once again, the defense is, it's such a class warfare that they put on this, Pete, which is you've got the dirty Negro. here and then you've got this wonderful Leo Frank and his you know is good character of which and and just look at the way that the the black man is done up matter of fact they they make a case uh the defense at one point when jim connelly is there about the fact that he's uh got clean shirt on that he's got his hair fixed and and you know he's showered and that you're typically a dirty negro

as they even say in court and it's fascinating that you know when you come out of this that the You try to put this, the ADL then says, oh, it's so anti-Semitic, yet your racist commentary the whole time is just outlandish. Okay, so race doesn't really come into this whole thing for the most part. Jump ahead. Leo Frank's mom, there were two incidences that kind of come out. One is she's in the gallery and she yells at the prosecutor, Hugh Dorsey, you dirty Christian dog or Gentile dog at one point. And that, that, yeah, very good. There it is.

But yeah, this is what's great, Pete, is the next day, there wasn't a pogger. There wasn't a mob outside. There wasn't anything like that. She just came back into court and all was good. All right. You want me to keep going? Hammer away. Yeah.

It's, it's just wild that it seems like there's a lot, there's a lot of tolerance going on. Yeah. on all sides. And even saying that you turn it into a class war, that's interesting because, yeah, no one would ever think that somebody of high class would come on to a young girl and possibly hurt her.

I mean, there's no evidence of that anywhere in like history before that, right? None, not at all. But this is used over and over. I mean, jump forward in a few years. Another issue I get real deep into is Whitaker Chambers, Alger Hiss, the pumpkin papers, and was Alger Hiss a communist spy? And Whitaker Chambers, they, you know, hid horrible teeth.

And that was the thing they were actually talking about in front of Huac was, look at his teeth, he's a disheveled man. Why would I, this is literally what they're saying. Why would I ever associate with him? Therefore, I couldn't have been handing him, you know, papers, secret spice up. Anyway, that's a different thing there. All right. So second, Mama Frank comes back into the courtroom. No one's, no one's screaming at her. No one's trying to kill her and everything goes on. So what happens? Yeah. So in matter of fact, in the closing, Hugh Dorsey, the prosecutor, solicitor there, he actually makes a call to the sense of what we talked about here of the Jews in the South being part of community.

And then he equates his religion to their religion and you know, tries to basically he's propping him up. He's not staying anything onery or bad. And that never comes into it at all. There's no, there's no race. Matter of fact, the only race that guerrilla gets brought up is once again by his mom. And then the fact that he's bringing members of his Benebri society in there to testify on his good character. Okay.

The first part that you have real a big issue with when the prosecutor. is Jim Conley. He comes in there, week two, the first week, it had been pretty good, setting all these things up. And now he's testifying. He does multiple days, I think, 16 hours, they say, of testimony. This is a, you know, a dumb Negro, as they say, he can't be believed. Yet the best, you know, cross-examiners here in the state and then probably in the nation at the time couldn't crack him. They couldn't get him to do anything other than just tell his story. And he was really pretty good at him. He was somewhat entertaining. So that's perfectly fine. Now, the problem is that you've got to be able to, for him, describing,

it's from the legal sense here, some of these situations, you know, seeing Leo Frank in a compromising situation, doing these things. So there's objections at this point to him being able to even testify to this. And you'll talk about it when it goes to the appeals, which are, can you talk about someone's character? Because they're saying, hey, you can't talk about his character unless we're bringing up. And you're going first as the prosecution. You can't even do this. But there's a pattern in a scheme that you can describe of someone is doing something like a past act, maybe another criminal activity. Once again, you can't bring their other crimes into it to say that since they did this criminal act, that therefore they would do this criminal act, this other one.

But you can say that it's done in a scheme and in a way in a plan that continually happens, that now you can use it for this case to show that it's likely that this happened as well. And that's exactly over the objections that they got a lot of this testimony in from Jen Conley. Now, just from my own, you know, Pete, there's so much here. And I'm trying to go back and I've even looked at some of the, tried to look back some of the law that they had at the time. And it's tough. Hearsay. Hearsay is a big one. You know, that's been a rule that's been through common law since, you know, the 1500s.

It looked like there was a lot of hearsay being thrown around here. And I don't know if they were objecting to it or not some of the transcript when you read it. It doesn't I haven't found actually where it shows all sides of the conversation. So the the massive document that they did for their appeal, AllSides said it was good and then everyone's used that since then. It's just the testimony. It doesn't show what the cross-examiner is saying, the attorneys. It just says all the answers.

But some of that stuff has been filtered into the record so you can see it. But the point is there's a lot of hearsay being done. Okay. Week one, week two, Conley's done. The defense rests. And now the prosecution rest, the defense starts bringing in all their stuff. And they start off with just what I consider trivial stuff. They're trying to break the timeline, which is very important. You know, like I said, Leo Frank put himself in a box by saying, I never left this office. Someone saw you, came in there and you weren't there. This girl died. and we were able to pin it throughout the right time. And it happens right next to your office. You know, you don't hear anything. Mary Fagan had a $1.20 on her. Oh, Jim Connolly probably killed it because he wanted him.

He wanted $1.20. You know, Leo Frank had thousands of dollars in his office at the time. You know, these things don't add up. So they try to come in with, you know, like the trolley times, you know, countering with different stuff. And you had asked last time about was Jim Connolly ever offered to change his story? No, he wasn't. because that would have been difficult

because, I mean, they tried to kill him actually. They tried to poison him in jail. That actually came out. But they didn't try to actually pay him off because they figured, once again, in the class situation, you've got a black man, he's not going to be believed. You know, he probably shouldn't even testify. That's their thinking at time.

But a lot of other people did, and it reminded, did take money and did try to change, you know, have stories that were not correct. They reminded me of the, was it Paul Bagelarler or one of those guys talked about, you know, you drag a $20 bill through the trailer park. You could get any kind of story you want, talking about the Clintons and stuff like that. It's kind of what happened here with all this money going on that you started having the defense,

people trying to counter some of the few words, things here and there. But the big thing was when they started to bring girls in to talk about how great. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shelf voucher or a spend anywhere card? when with Options Card, you can have both. With Options Card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a Spend Anywhere card.

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Suddenly, that's when the damn breaks. and then all hell breaks loose. So the rebuttal that comes from the state, they're able to start getting rebuttal witnesses, and then they start to unload this, you know, girls saying, oh, yeah, he's coming into our dressing room. Oh, yeah, he touched me. They're also able to bring in this,

there was this another guy, Dobbs, Dalton, I'm sorry. And he was the one that Jim Connolly said that, oh, yeah, he used to come here and bring girls in with him, and Leo would let him hang around. So I guy comes and testifies, and yeah, I did that. the girl that he was there with, one of them was like, yeah, that happened. Another one's like, no, now she's married. She's not going to, she's going to perjure herself.

She's going to protect her relationship. And walk all the way through this. There's a lot of objections to these kind of, you know, witness testimony. But in the end, they're done and over in two weeks. Now, there's, if you read the closing arguments, they both had two attorneys. So it's actually pretty fascinating. These guys were well done. But before they do that, there's one other thing that happens, which is a monster.

It seems like a huge mistake to me. Now, the South, you know, honor society that you have, which would be, okay, Leo Frank should go up there, testify, cross-examination, show he's a man, say he didn't do it. And, you know, as this man in the South will either believe him or we don't. But that's how you do it. Well, you had three options at the time. One, just like now, don't testify, take the fifth. Two, testify and get cross-examined. But they had a nice little thing where he can make a statement, unsworn, and not have the option to be cross-examined.

So Leo Frank, yeah, it's just a little crazy. So Leo Frank decides that he's going to do this. He's been preparing for this. So he gets up there, and almost to all accounts, you have pro-Frank, you have anti-Frank, everybody says it was a rambling, mind-numbing experience. He spent hours talking about and showing how he goes through, because he did all the accounting for the NPC, showing how he did his accounting that day.

Walked everyone through the math. Basically to indicate, if I'm going to have done this, I didn't have enough time. I had to, I was too busy doing this calculations. Anyway, I don't know what the point, because it bored everyone to death. But then he says one aspect, which is he wants to start talking about this. And he says, I may have unconsciously used the restroom that day around between the 12, 1230. That to me, I mean, you know, there are people, there's like three or four instances where he basically claims it or admitted to doing it.

I should go back to just one of those, which is his parent, his in-laws, he lives. with his in-laws, the sea leagues, and they had some servants. The night of the murder, one of the servants there, she told her husband that she was in the room. Leo Frank comes in. He's drunk. It's later in the evening. And he said, I killed a girl. Give me my gun. I'm going to kill myself. And this was saying to his wife. I didn't do it. So this lady, her husband's like, oh, shit, this guy's a creep. Tells the cops, they come and get her. She goes in there. She has counsel with her the whole time. And she gives an affidavit that he had said that. Now, the prosecution can't introduce this affidated.

They didn't even bring her up to testify because she had then tried to recant this. So she goes in the stand and she's talking about some other things. And so then it was just dumb to bring her in, I think, from the defense. But the prosecution then says to, you know, to basically push back against what she's just claimed. They show the affidavit. And now they have testimony all around that. So that's one aspect that actually on the. appeals they they bring up. So he's admitted to someone there. He, uh, there was another

admittance that, oh, they think it when New Lee when he was in the interrogating him when he said, we're both going to burn for this. And then obviously in court saying, I may have gone down to the bathroom myself. Uh, so the jury steps out. They take two hours. They come back in, just rewind a bit on the grand jury. Uh, there were five Jews, by the way, on the grand jury that indicted him. Two of them, helping to be members of his benign breast. I don't think there were any Jews on this jury, but they said he was guilty within two hours. There's one aspect that's important here, which is the judge. You said that there were five Jews on the jury that indict.

Grand jury. Grand jury that indicted him. Yes. There were, you don't think there were any Jews. There's no evidence of Jews being on the jury that convicted him. I have not heard any positive statements that there were. Yeah. There were, yeah. So, so, so, nothing that. Two hours come out. Now, there's a, there was due process is basically I need to have my chance to be served. A jurisdiction has to have over me. I get a chance to have my day in court and all the little procedural aspects that go along with that. And one of the things that they said here in criminal courts in Georgia is that he had the right to be present at every, aspect of his trial. Now the judge was concerned that whatever the outcome of the trial,

that there may be a little bit of a riotous activity, although there had never been any outbreaks in the court. There really had been nothing outside the court. I think I told you I saw this movie that was done in the 80s. And I'm trying to remember some of the actors in there, but there's a bunch of famous actors. Go back and watch it. It's the pro-Frank scenario. And what they do in there, which is, I can't find anywhere in history that, historically to prove that this is the case, during the trial, a bunch of Christians are standing right outside the window and they're singing like some Christian hymn. And that's supposed to be showing that, you know, hey, we're Christians.

We are going to get you, you dirty Jew. That never happened. That's nothing like that happened. But. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November.

Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.e. 4.6 Northwest. This Black Friday, gain stream and go full speed with 1 gig Sky Broadbats. and watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people killing you, John. And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't?

Get one gig Sky Broadband, Essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months. Our lowest ever price. Availability subject location, new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter, TV and broadband sold separately. Terms apply for more infoes sky.a.e slash beads. the judge is concerned that if he's if Leo Frank's out there when the jury's read, something might happen. So Leo Rosser, his attorney, the defense attorney, and with Hugh Dorsey, the prosecutor, they come to an agreement that they will waive his right to be there.

Now, Dorsey's explicit, like, you can't use this against us. You're going to waive this. You can't use this against this. They're like, yeah, perfectly fine. The jury comes out, says guilty. They pull the jury. Every single one of you tell us about it. They all say guilty, guilty, guilty.

And we're done and over. And then he's sentenced to death in a few days or a few weeks. But any questions about the trial? That's how we have. Well, no, that sounds good. There's numerous appeals. So I guess is that where we're going to go now? Get into the appeals?

Yeah, if you want to. Yeah, I think that's important because a lot of people are like, Oh, you know, it's, of course a Georgia jury is going to convict this dirty Jew, you know, of the murder. But no, there was plenty of appeals. 13, I believe. All in all highlights. Yeah. So, and by the way, the best thing about this, you know, it's the time era that we're in,

all this has been documented. So we all, we have all this information. which is a great thing for everyone to go through, but it's not so good for the ADL. They really want to go through this, and they want to go through the facts of all this. And by the way, if you go back and read at the time, even pro-Frank articles and everything,

there's things that are just vastly missing, which is anti-Semitism. It's just not at all in the picture at the time. And I think that's, to me, one of the frustrating things you get from this, which is, hey, Tyler, you know, someone posted on Twitter, big balls to do this episode. And I don't know about that. I mean, we're just breaking down the case.

And you're going to yell that for what you come out with because your part, your, your, your little team isn't seen in a good light. That's, that's no way to go through it. Anyway, that's my, that's my opinion. Yeah. If I, if someone on my team murder is a girl, murders a 13 year old girl, I'm, I'm not standing up for them. No, no, no, yeah. They're not on my team anymore. Right. Right. Okay, so let's walk. I'll walk through quickly just kind of the dates of all the different motions that happened, just so we could kind of see them.

And then we'll break through just some highlights of the main issues that happened. So he was sentenced to death on the 26th of August. He immediately files a new motion for a new trial. And it goes through Judge Rohn. So it's got to look. And we'll talk about this real quick, which is when you file an appeal, it's not like, I didn't like that ruling. So I need a someone else to you know tell them that they were wrong. No, it's you have to say for reasons of objections that were overruled or the misapplication of law or that you was just

So egregious in the outcome that it did not warrant the the the verdict that was there. So it's pretty specific about what you have to do He files a motion immediately goes to judge Rhone who had been the judge in the Superior Court that had just done the trial he denies it and then they start pushing that thing up there. I just thought it was interesting. So let me see. Yeah, this is one. In this state, a defendant charged with the crime and tried by a jury is given the right by motion for a new trial to have it reviewed, a verdict and judgment rendered against him and to have it set aside if set aside for an illegality or irregularity amounting to harmful error in the trial, including such grounds as the reception of a verdict in his absence. but where such motion is made, it should include all proper grounds which were at the time known to the defendant or his counsel or which by reasonable diligence could have been discovered.

And that is really important and that kind of becomes the lynchpin, which is he doesn't bring up in his first, and it's 103 different grounds for dismissal of a new trial that he wants. He does it rid on the air. It just keeps going through with these. But he doesn't on this first attempt bring up the fact that he was in the, not in the courtroom. Okay. Now, his attorneys had said, we're not, we're waiving it. We're not, but now it's different attorneys that are doing, work on all the appeals for him, and they don't bring that up in his first motion. It comes back to somewhat bite him. So he gets those denied, and he keeps going through. He files another one,

and you've got the multiple courts here. So the 13 isn't quite 13. It's like, goes to the first one, and then he appeals to the next one, or he amends it. He then comes back. The motion for new trial is denied. So then he, he does what's called the writ of errors. Here's all these errors that were supposed to have been corrected and that weren't all these objections. Was he able to use the character? Well, they overruled them on all those. Can he, you know, the plan and the scheme, can you do that? These other issues of, you've had these two doctors that had an outside issue with each other. Was that a problem? You know, nothing. And it has to be relevant. It has to be material. So they can be

minor errors. Oh, maybe that shouldn't happen. But is that really an error that's going to cause this whole trial to be upended? And it continually gets denied, denied. Then he starts doing, and this is all through 1914, back in November. He then goes up and tries to, he puts this rid of error to the Supreme Court of the United States through the district court. They deny him. then he comes back and his last ditch effort is for habeas corpus. So this is, you file it against the jailer, Magnum was his name, and you file it for like, look, I'm illegally imprisoned for something, you don't even have jurisdiction to do this. It should be letting me loose, letting me free, based on the fact that he due process,

the 14th Amendment now, and it was, oh, mob rule, the mob was so enveloped that, you know, singing Christian songs outside my window that I had no choice but that they, I didn't get due process. So, uh, Supreme court of, um, Georgia turns them down and that one goes, finally gets accepted, uh, goes up to the Supreme court. And to me, that one, uh, somewhat fascinating. One, uh, they've, they reject him on the lower courts for saying, if you didn't bring this issue up the first time, you've lost it. You've waived it. Matter of fact, it says here,

You're supposed to bring all known issues. You lost your chance for doing a new trial. You missed it there. You should have brought this fact up that you were not in the courtroom at the time. Now, with that said, the 14th Amendment, as we talk about, it's at the time, I don't know how well you are on the 14th or listeners here. I'm pretty good with the 14th, yeah. Okay. So, you know, 14th Amendment, which the NOI, Nation of Involve law does take into account, which is, what was the purpose of this in the first place?

is really to help black men be able to have the right to vote. That was one of them. And now you're trying to use it against him, basically, for this guy that's trying to string up a black man. You know, Nation of Islam book didn't like that. I don't know if that's really a great correlation. But what you had here, all the cases at this time, there wasn't substantive due process. It was just procedural due process if they could even be applied at all. And they take it up the Supreme Court and they say, with this in mind, is this mob so unruly that we,

couldn't have given you due process. The interesting part about that one, Pete, is that there's this guy, William Burns, and I think maybe you've heard about him. He was a private investigator that took hundreds of thousands of dollars from a lot of lobbyists and people in the north to go through and find the real killer. Now, what he ended up doing was he did drag the dollar bill through the trailer park. He got a bunch of people to sign affidavits, fake affidavits. I mean, there was a bunch of Otherwise, he got, he just got obliterated himself in the south because Dorsey, the solicitor, said, we're not going to have this. So they went after a lot of, you know, he's like, here's a, here's an affidavit saying that this guy on the jury was making comments, you know, about kill the Jews.

Well, anyway, a lot of this stuff was filed in the writ of air. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid. in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say

online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid. orgate.orgheim.org slash Northwest. This Black Friday, gain, stream

and go full speed with one gig Sky Broadband. And watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people killing each other. And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig Sky Broadband, Essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months.

Our lowest ever price. Availability subject location, new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter, TV and broadband sold separately. Terms apply for more info.com.com. Now, the Supreme Court actually mentions that in their order, which is, it's interesting that you have a lot of, you know, affidavits pointing the finger elsewhere, but you didn't include him with your Supreme Court brief. So they decided, okay, this stuff is such bullshit. I can't actually include it in there. Anyway, there were two dissenters on the Supreme Court. They do knock him down. They say that the mob wasn't, wasn't to the point that it was a problem. As far as due process

goes, it's procedural, which is, we're only as the feds here with the 14th Amendment, we're enforcing due process as what the state would be, privileges and immunity is of the state, not what we think due process is from the Fed, so the Fifth Amendment. So your due process, whatever it was there, you had a waiver, you're good, we're fine, we're not going to say that it's any issue, we're not going to overrule you. Interesting, Oliver Wendell Holmes, famous Supreme Court justice who made that stupid line, firing a crowded theater. He did dissent.

He didn't talk anything about the 14th Amendment. He just said, look, the crowd seemed to be unruly, and therefore you should have had a better chance at this. The great thing, though, Pete, all the filings, a lot of, it's not like any of these rulings were short-sighted. They took a lot of time. There's a lot of writing in there. And I think they, I think, personally, going through all the stuff that they came out with the right ruling. The great thing about this is that, you know, this, this four-week trial, longest one that they had had, all these pleadings, all these appeals that they have, they couldn't find any air strong enough

to give them a new trial. Even the ones that did dissent, because they weren't all, you know, seven, I think there was a seven two on the Supreme Court, the Georgia Supreme Court. Not everyone was unanimous on all of those. Even the dissents, though, they're always like, eh, maybe he could give this to him, but they weren't definitive forthright in their taking. So the Supreme Court says, overrules him. and he's sentenced to death.

And then we have a Governor Slayton issue going on. I'm wondering if we want to, if we want to sort of cut it there to save for part three, or do you think we can get into anything else and be coherent in part three? We could cut it if you want. Let me ask you that. Do you have any questions about any of these things?

I mean, admittedly, my, what I know of court law is I used to read a lot of decisions, but mostly from like Supreme Court decisions. I was obsessed with Ashwander for a long time. I thought that that was like a lot of the decisions around the New Deal, because I thought that was like the turn of everything. It's when all country just basically went up and smoke. But yeah, it doesn't seem to me like, I mean,

well, in the trial itself, is it just that they get, they look and they're like, okay, he is the only one who had opportunity to do it. And combined with the fact that Conley, I guess on the stand is basically telling him about the money, telling him about, is that what does it? Yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's the full breadth of everything, the sole story, which is Conley, they find him to believe believable, although it's over and over and over. They even had the one point, they grouped about 10 witnesses, and they just said, they all testified that Jim Conley, as a Negro, couldn't be believed under oath. So they really went hard at that.

But yes, he testified, I think he was believable. the fact that Leo Frank's story had changed, and then the fact that they were able to bring out in the trial, a lot of these little things where he was trying, it was obvious he was trying to frame either Newt Lee or this James Gant, and he never took the opportunity to do the same to Jim Connolly. I think that was so powerful that there was this Miss White who saw him in the factory, that he's there a week later,

still hanging around. It blows everyone's mind that this black man would not just take off if he had actually done that. So with that and the fact that because I don't think, I think just the facts themselves dealt with this. Enough girls came up and said, yeah, he was creepy. He was trying to touch me. He was looking through the people. He had been doing these exact things that Leo Frank or Jim Connolly says he was going to do. And then just there's a gruesome murder, possible rape going involved there.

Yeah. Do you think the Supreme Court, like Thomas says that Oliver Wendell Holmes gets a bad rap on a lot of things, do you think that that was just his not realizing that the, you know, that really anti-Semitism had anything to do with this trial, that was Holmes just like a knee-jerk reaction, or was it just his contrarian nature? Very well may have been. Look, as far as Oliver Wendell Holmes, yeah, I brought up the fire in the crowd of theater, is bad, but he's not bad on all of his decisions. So, you know, it's kind of a mixed bag.

And by the way, I think a lot of judicial, judicial temperament, and when you look back on it, it has to deal with kind of where you are now. And, you know, as an example, I look back through all the different story, as a matter of fact, justice story. I think he's a piece of shit, you know, kind of the things. It depends on where your personal view is and how you see these people. even him though he was he was reserved on a lot of this stuff and he just said look it seems to be the mob trial the problem though and this is what's amazing is you know i think brandyce was the first jewish

member of the supreme court he wasn't coming on there yet that was still to be coming on a few a few years i think it was 1917 i want to say so uh i could be wrong check me out on that but he he definitely wasn't on at this point um that the overwhelming feeling of the north and all the news You couldn't avoid this case. So I'm sure the Supreme Court justices had read stuff. And the New York Times was pumping out what they say. There was more words written about Jim Conley in the New York Times than about W.D. DeBois. So, you know, that's extreme for even the New York Times at the time.

So you can't help but think that they had been somewhat influenced because you now had two years from the time of the actual guilty to when the Supreme Court's going and do. doing this for all the papers to really, really ramp up the anti-Semitic trope that they were pushing out. All right. Well, then I guess we'll wrap it up there. And next time we, well, I mean, obviously the lynching, but also we can start getting into the press and just exactly how much the press and how much, how much came from the north, like you said, all the words were written, but also talk about the governor who looks like he went on a world tour after I think he was promised a lot yes yeah and yeah and one thing that a mistake that I made and I didn't know until recently was that I guess we'll talk about this next is that he didn't commute his sentence he commuted

his death sentence yes you're right he even had some skepticism as to what he was, you know, committed it to life in prison, which still means, okay, I mean, that, you know, you may not have the death sentence, but you at least have life in prison. So, yeah, I agree. Yeah. Well, we can also on the next one talk about what could like, I don't, you know, trying to get into the mind of somebody who's in a lynch mob is, is, is, it is, could be damaging to one soul. But the, what the idea may have been around somebody who has now a life sentence and is alive and is there, you know, there is still a chance of a, you got to have a presidential commutation, something like that. So, you know, I know that after,

I guess after you go to the Supreme Court, you can't, you can't get a pardon, a president's pardon. Yeah, yeah, I mean, the president could only have, even now, I mean, you know, even the way we're mixing things in, the president can only pardon federal crimes. So, you know, this is state crime. He was screwed in that sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, good. All right. I think last time you said, if anybody wants to find your work, go to your Twitter account at Tyler Yankee. That's correct. Yeah. Thanks. Cool. All right, man. Well, until the next time, can't wait. Yep. Take care.

I want to welcome everyone back to the Peking Yono show. You're going to wrap this up now, Tyler. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Pete. Nice to talk to you in a time of peace. Yeah. Oh, whoops. People look back this at a few years and say, excuse me? Yeah, what are they talking about? What was happening when they recorded this? So basically ended on the guilty verdict last time.

And the appeals, you talked about the appeals. And I guess the commutation of the death sentence comes first. But before we do that, probably. getting into the level of, I mean, what the media did and the media blitz. So why don't you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, let me, let me start. I found this quote. This guy, Leonard Dinerstein, he was an author. He wrote a book about Leo Frank and I think for his dissertation. And then he's updated a bunch of times. Now he's a scholar. But here, I just thought this was, I found this last night and I just thought this was great. So this is how he acknowledged.

anti-Semitism, he said that in, the anti-Semitism in Atlanta, quote, was evident in the widespread acceptance of Negro Jim Conley's testimony. I mean, if that doesn't say it all, it's like, and then kind of where we're at today as well, which is you go against our narrative, no matter what it is, you can't actually have a principled disagreement. And this is a lesser man, this Negro, therefore, since you accepted his testimony, we are then, you're anti-Semitic. That's the whole process. Well, something that we've definitely seen in the past week is that if you even mention, you're like, oh, wow, civilians died.

I mean, that's, that's frigging horrible. Well, civilians are going to die on the other side as well. It's either 100% you are for Israel. and you are you are for the Zionists or you are against them. And we saw that when Tucker Carlson was interviewing Vivek and Ben Shapiro did a completely insane rant commenting on it where he made zero sense. I mean, he he's, there was no facts and logic in there at all. It was emotion and bloodlust. and yeah so I think we know this we can see this in our current day that if you are not 100% behind

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And, you know, it's, yeah, I think people, I think a lot of people in the last few days have come to accept the fact that they're anti-Semitic. well and and and I'd say that because that ties into kind of where the ADL is now and a lot of the stuff that we had with the press at the time so it's just an important and by the way my journey from this we don't need to get too personal into it which is I've used to bent and be more in the Ben Shapiro camp you know I'm not a Jewish person I'm religious you know you think that the Christians have to support that kind of thing and it was along the lines of I remember telling someone how I didn't like Jimmy Carter and I'm like he's anti- Semetic because he wrote some things pro-Palestine. You know, it's kind of the cudgel that you use. And it shouldn't be done that way. Anyway, we can move on from that part.

Okay, good. Okay, so let's talk about what we didn't really get into too much. We haven't. We skirted it around a bunch is the news and the way that the press really took this into account, okay? And with that in mind, did they come into it right away? No, it took a little bit of time for some of these, the northern, Jewish families and stuff to really push into this.

It started with Albert Lasker. Okay, Albert Lasker, actually, it's his father who I did find this out yesterday. He was a confederate himself, you know, slave-owning family that they had down there. And I think he was from Texas originally. So this Albert Lasker is the head of Lord and Thomas. He's kind of like the what they call them the unchallenged monarch of American consumer advertising, the founder of modern advertising. You think of all these things that happened.

He was the man that really pushed this, you know, kind of a change in 1913 with some of that. So he comes into prominence there. His dad said, hey, you got to take a look at this. And so he starts to take interest. A lot of the press did come into it right near the trial. You know, William Randolph Hearst threw someone down there for his newspapers. And there is some reporting, you know, claims on some books and stuff that the news,

the emphasis by the north changed the trial because they couldn't come out as anti-black as they really wanted to do. You know, we've shown things here. They definitely were. So they said they curtailed that some. However, the Nation of Innsab Islam book really shows how much Lasker himself, you know, a man mostly of the South, although he lives now in Chicago, Adolf Ox, he was now running the New York Times, but he was actually a Southerner, too. They had strong, strong feelings. about slavery, the black man, they weren't any better. So I don't know that that necessarily played into it, but it drew some interest and there still was a little bit in the north,

some of this pretension that we're going to give blacks, at least they're due. So they had to restrain that a little bit. Albert Lasker, he really pushes this and the key for him, so they come in mostly after the trial, but the key for him was he had a ton of money, he put over $120,000 of his own money, money in there, $1913. So I think the book, they translated that to like 2.9 and 2016.

It's still a lot of money even for today of his personal money. But the big thing he had was connections and then he had pull. So think of the guy that's the advertiser and you're now running a newspaper. And how does your newspaper thrive on advertising? If this guy's wants one direction for you to go, you might be going that way. You might start. start changing your attitude or your editorials, the way your news stories are simply by the fact that you're going to get better advertising through Albert Lasker. So that was one big thing he had. What was interesting, and I'll get right to this on him. So he said, let me give this quote here. In his biography, he reeled that upon his first personal meeting with Frank, Leo Frank, he preserved,

he perceived him as, quote, a pervert and a disgusting individual so much that he even hoped that he managed that if Frank managed to get free, the latter would quickly perish in some accident. Furthermore, in his private correspondence, he freely admitted that a large fraction of the massive funding that he and his numerous and other wealthy Jews from across the country were providing had been spent on perjured testimony, and there was also strong hints that he explored bribing various judges. Given these facts, Lasker and Frank's other major backers were clearly guilty of serious felonies and could have received lengthy prison terms for their illegal contact. So once again, we talked about the money.

That was the big thing from the trial till the appeals was going through with this Burns investigator, trying to change the testimony lot. Okay, so Albert Lasker, he then brings in Lewis Marshall. Lewis Marshall was the American Jewish Committee president. He was an attorney. He was really well connected. Some say he might have been the most, highest praised or thought of prominent, I guess would be the word Jewish man in the country at the time.

He had backdoor dealings with Scotus. He knew Woodrow Wilson. He became the lead attorney for Leo Frank after the trial and through all the stuff. So his connections were huge as well. Along with Lasker, they then recruited Adolf Ocks. Adolf Ocks at the time, he was from the South, but he was now the owner of the New York Times. This guy, he liked to put down the blacks as well, but he really got involved in this thing. And I just wonder what's interesting in here.

Once again, we'll say another thing. He had a quote here. Lasker convinced his innocence. No, at no point was I convinced of his innocence. He also said on the death of Frank, I'm sure that it was a relief to Mr. Ox, who Frank lynched, who have Frank lynched and out of the way. I have felt for some time that he's secret. despised Frank. That's what one person said of Albert Ox after he was done. So these guys did not

like him. They said, and I have some other quotes, we could kind of go through as to what their whole feeling was. They also then brought in Jacob Schiff. Jacob Schiff was a Wall Street financier at the time. Shocker. I know who Jacob Schiff is. Okay. What do you know about him? He financed the Bolshevik Revolution. Okay. Well, he also. In Russia. I mean, to the tune of $200 million. Do you know how much, do you know how much that was in, in 19, early 1900s money? I can't even imagine. How many billion trillion? Two billion. Okay. There you go. Yeah. That's how much, that's how much he wanted to get revenge upon the, uh, the Russians for the pale of settlement. Wow. Well, what's interesting, his connection, he started and he was a financier, he was helping this as well.

But his thing actually is he had connections with Georgia and Slayton, the governor Slayton, and he actually, there was a, to help with the fund some cotton industries and through the state there, he got, I think it was a $139 million loan for the state of Georgia. This is right at the time of the commutation. Because remember when Judge Slayton commutes, and we'll get the spoiler, when he commutes Leo Frank's sentence, he then gets out of office in like a few weeks. even that long. So he then, Jacob Schiff tries to, through Marshall, the attorney, tries to have Slayton, because Slayton was an attorney as well, we'll get to his dealings, wanted to have him

nominated for Scotus. And then actually William Randolph-Hurst had even written some things and wanted Slateen to be the VP choice for Woodrow Wilson. So, and William Randolph-Hurst, we're not even really getting into much of him other than he had a bunch of a bunch of newspapers, and he was pushing the same thing. Once again, from advertising, I don't even know much. I didn't dig into Hearst. He wasn't as interesting to me on some of these. Some celebrities that were Thomas Edison, Henry Ford, Jane Adams,

they all were pushing for Leo Frank's innocence as we. Henry Ford? That's what I got out of one clip. So perhaps, perhaps that's true. Interesting. The man who wrote the international Jew. Well, maybe at some time later he's like, you know what? He wasn't because when did he write that?

Because it was later, wasn't it? Yeah, I can't remember. But go on. Keep going. All right. One of the best, look, like I said, this changed some strategy as far as the thing goes. But one of the best things that comes out of this. And once again, like I've said, if you are, you're interested in this at all or someone's

pushing you, the best sources are the original sources. And one of the guys with some of the best original sources were this guy, is this guy Thomas E. Watson. He was a populist at the time. He had it. He was an attorney. I think he was even a congressman. He ended up starting his own, I would say reg, but his own newsletter. And he started pushing back on the trial. What is interesting, when they always talk about anti-Semitism, they bring up Tom Watson, because he kind of turned that way. But he was mostly anti-black and very anti-Catholic, extremely anti-Catholic. So when we talked earlier about the cabbage and Mary Fagan, you know, being a Catholic girl, this is a guy that's like, you know, actually I'm going with him.

Plus, if you do check out his writings, and they're all there, you can still find him. And at the end, maybe I'll talk about some of the sources we have because there's some great sources that way they put these on audio. So all his writings are still out there. He did not start writing about the trial until after it was over. So the anti-Semitism, because, you know, look, let's say there was some anti-Semitism. from 1913 after the trial to the to the appeal. Okay, maybe. But does that matter?

Did that really? It doesn't matter for the appeals because the appeals were he couldn't get due process because of the anti-Semitism in the South. So we're just wiping that out. Tom Watson didn't start his fervor. And one of his most famous things is called him the pervert Jew. That's what he's starting to call Leo Frank, which is what Albert Ox thought of him,

which is what Adolf Ox and Lasker thought of him as well. is it out of the out of that no it's by the way if you look at his writings tom watson he's very he's very good fun to read uh i'm not saying i agree with everything i'm just saying he's a great writer uh but he wrote in defense of the jews many times before the whole trial so he got and and we'll tie this in here because tom watson is a very strong individual the north comes down and And even Albert Ox and Laskers talked about later on where they overplayed their hand. We came in, we tried to destroy Georgia in a sense, and then what happened? And they didn't take this guy seriously.

Tom Watson happened. Tom Watson happened and he just eviscerates them point by point, recapping the trial. He knows all the legal jargon and he knows all the laws from down there. He talks about one of them, venue. They could have easily, because they're like, look, we're in Atlanta, we didn't get a fair trial. okay, you know what you could have done? You could have asked for a change of venue. You never did that. And he breaks down how they could have done that and likelihood of actually winning on that and had your trial somewhere other than Atlanta. But they were cocky. And they thought that they would get

Leo because we have a black man that's going to testify. So Tom Watson happens. The New York Times can't even compete with him. He's just, he destroys them. He knows way too much. And he takes them on the facts. So that to me is in his reasoning why he turns on the Jews. people, by the way, he had defended them in court. He is an attorney. They advertised in his magazine. None of this anti-Jewish sentiment came about during the trial. Once again, it's just not evident in any of the writings. So that just doesn't happen. Anyway, so that's kind of the news story around there as far as the newspapers influence. One other thing, I'd say it real quick here. Seven months before he's killed, the New York Times writes an article about, they expect him to be

lynched at some point or they're they're they're saying that's going to happen and they call this group the night we've heard it's an anonymous source the knights of mary fagin and it comes to that that's one by the way that's one of the best conspiracy of this and we'll get to in the end anything you wanted to say about the news stuff uh no let's get into um slayton and uh you know what what what most likely caused him to commute the death sons right so one of the first things I did, by the way, when I started reading all this, because it's 28 pages, the easiest thing to do to kind of get a breadth of this is you read Governor Slayton's commutation report. It breaks down the facts. It says everything. And I came from that. And my first thought was,

oh, yeah, Jim Conley is just a disgusting person. He's not, he's not that great. And then you go through all the facts of it. And you kind of backtrack and you go, okay, you know what? He's a of his times. I don't think he was all that bad, but Governor Slayton did commute the sentence, and he conducted like a four or five day inquiry. He had people testify again. You know, Dorsey, the prosecutor was like, look, this is BS. We've already done this. But Slayton wanted to do this. He said it was the right thing to do. And in the end, he decided to commute the sentence from life in prison to, I'm sorry, to life in prison from hanging. And we'll get to his connections, but here's what he found, though, still in his commutation. There was no error of law.

There was sufficient evidence to sustain the verdict. He felt like an imprisonment represented justice, also reserved for convicted murderers. As far as the anti-Semitic mob, he said, no such attack was made and none was contemplated. He said Jews were revered and contributed greatly to the development of slavery-dependent Jim Crow State. Okay. Look, you got to do this because now you look at the ADL and there, and I'll play, we'll get to that. He made his commutation based on what he considered new evidence, much of which was produced by the disgraced detective William J. Burns, who we've talked about. Ox Lasker all said they perjured people up and down the state of Georgia trying to get this thing.

So that was his. Of Connolly, the black guy, he said, the evidence shows that Conley was as depraved and letterous a Negro as ever lived. in Georgia. There you go. By the way, I don't know if we finish this, which is Jim Connolly does get convicted for like an accessory after the fact, spends a year in jail for his crime, and dies, you know, ripe old age, I think in the 1940s, 1960s, something like that, never hit the news wires again for crimes, which, if he was this disgusting sexual pervert, by the way, that movie I saw in in the 1988 one.

He is, he's like Gollum in a cell and this black lady's there. And he's almost like jerking off because he's just so, they show him as just this lascivious, uh, over-sexed person. It's,

it's wild. It's wild. Yeah, not shocked. I mean, who made that, Hollywood? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Bob Lemon, uh, Bob Lemon, he was the old guy, the dirty grump, grumpy old men.

That's his name? Is that his name? Jack Lemon. Jack Lemon, sorry. He played Slayton. And by the way, there's an old movie in the 60s where Walter Mathel plays Slayton. So those guys team up to play the same guy and then later on their grumpy old men. The original, well, weren't they the original odd couple too?

Yeah. Yes. So they just had the once again. Yeah. And I think Charles Dutton actually played. Charles Dutton was the, yes, the black guy. Yeah. It's wild.

All right. commutation of the death sentence and um by the way i just remembered something uh albert ox and some of these they decide to do run a portrayal of the crimes at one point so they have actors and they do all this stuff and i always find this funny because um if you've ever seen birth of a nation they like to do this too which is you can't use a black man to portray a black man you use a white person in blackface and it's uh it looks so creepy from now but anyway he did that as well. But yeah. That's amazing.

So commutes to that sentence and then some people start moving and going, you know, just making decisions. Yeah. So Slayton actually, he takes off and they moved the prison for where

Leo Frank is from one to another. By the way, if you read all the stuff about the discussion at this point, Leo Frank is really loving his notoriety. He's starting to have people come visit him at the prison. He talks about how wonderful his conditions are there. People are sending him money and he's just, he's loving life the way it is. They move, he gets slashed in the neck at one point. Someone tries to kill him. They save his life. And then a few

days or a week or so later, a lynch mob breaks into prison. This is like a team or something, breaks into prison, takes him out to, I think it was in Millageville, and they take them to Marietta where Mary Fagan was born, and they string them up, and they hulting, they lynch him, basically. And there is actually a picture out there. Yeah, yeah, there is. We won't be providing that or anything. No, they put a nice cloth over his face, though, so you can't really tell.

Yeah. Yeah. So, well, Well, why don't you talk about the fact that it does eventually. I mean, he does get, I mean, this is jumping forward. He does get pardoned. Yeah, maybe we need to finish off Slayton because there is one connection. We didn't.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't talk about there. I mean, we can do the Slaten World Tour. Well, yeah, you might know a little bit more about that than me, actually. What I found was, okay, he's governor from 1911 to 1915. You know, the murder happens in 1913. So there's, what, a two-year span that he, of elections. He just gets elected governor right before the murder are around there. And he had merged,

because he's an attorney, he had merged law firms with Luther Rosser, who was the criminal, the defense attorney for Leo Frank. Okay. They had just merged. So he can't practice law, so he's not doing that. But let me tell you, after he commute sentence and he's done, he goes back and works for the law firm. Like I said, Jacob Schiff tried to get him either put on Scotus, William Ramder first tried to put him on as a vice president. Schiff's letters to Slayton indicated that he would give him this cotton loan. Like I said, like I think it was, $139 million loan.

But firstly, he asked him, how do you feel about Leo Frank's innocence? And by the way, this money is, he hinted it was conditional on that. So anyway, there's good connection that Slayton was perhaps bought off or he thought it was in his best interest to do this. Plus, as you can see, what he thought about, Frank, or Jim Connolly, you just believe the quote, unquote, I have the DFUP white guy in this one. What do you know about, and by the way, Leo Frank's murdered and Jim Connolly is actually in California at the time and he hears the news. what do you know about him? From what I heard that Slayton immediately, once that happens and once the news of the lynching comes out, he immediately runs to New York. And he runs to the people who, you know, what they assume is the people who paid him to do this.

And there is no chance. No one's going to run him for SCOTUS now. No one's going to run him for Vice President now. So they just hand him a bunch of cash and he goes and he just basically tours the world for a little while. Yeah, which sounds about right. Yeah, and I don't know, I don't know how he ended up. I didn't look into that. But, you know, basically, you know, he committed a crime, he committed a crime, quote on a lot.

And then he ran and his, the people he, the people he did a favor for paid him handsomely and he decided to see the world. Yeah, it did come across that as soon as, like I said, Mars. the main attorney for Frank after the fact the real connected guy when Jacob Schiff said hey what about him for SCOTUS he's like yeah he basically he's not a smart guy I wouldn't put him up there for any reason so yeah there we go so yeah so he um all right go ahead go so what happens and and maybe do you want to talk about the lynching and the conspiracy or do we save that Pete we tease the folks here Go ahead and do it. Okay. So I mentioned, this is great about the NOI book here, about the secret of the Blacks and Jews. It's from a different perspective than perhaps we have. But it's one that's really interesting because they are, they're coming at it from an agree perspective as well.

You know, and talk about all the lynchings that are happening in there. Slayton only is concerned or these people only get riled out because one Jewish man gets lynched yet. Slate never commuted the sentences for a bunch of others. By the way, they at one point went through page after page of just how the due process for blacks was at the time. They had transcripts from a court hearing, and it's literally, you know, Mr. What's his name? You step up.

Did you take this lady's purse? No, 30 days. The next guy, did you do it? No, 30 days. And then one guy's like, hey, I said it didn't. He goes, 60 days. And then he goes, what? I can't.

And it's 90 days. Fine, two years. And that's the kind of, it was like within, you know, five minutes. It's your jailing, you know, the 15 different black guys. So that's the way this was. Okay. So the book indicates that there was such disgust for Leo Frank.

And he started to have talking. He started to have interviews. They said, no, you've got to stop this. Once again, they thought he was this complete pervert. I didn't like him from the moment. I saw him. These are legit quotes. I never thought he was legally guilty or innocent, I think they were, which is a weird phrase to use.

to the point where they felt, and I did read that one quote, where they felt that him being dead was actually more of a benefit than not. Because the more he talks, the more interviews, now you commuted his sentence. You're not going to hang him?

Fine, we got that, because they actually thought we'd commute it. Maybe we'd get some sort of other release, but the lynching is a better deal. Now, the New York Times makes this thing about these knights of Mary Fagan, and if you, by the way, if you look up the KKK,

the second wave of the KKK, They always say, you know, Simmons started it on the, what was the mountain up there, Stone Mountain, elder in Georgia, and the Knights of Mary Fagan. But the Knights of Mary Fagan never were, what you can tell, were actually a group. Like I said, New York Times mentioned them seven weeks before. There was one other magazine. It was the Israelite that had mentioned him. Great name.

But that was actually the brother-in-law of Adolf Ox. So there's a connection there. This group then lynches him. They never said that they were any. Simmons never said, I think that's his name, never said that there was any connection to knights of Mary Fagan. There was never a group associated with the Knights of Mary Fagan. So the Nation of Islam thing is,

this could have been your first false flag. We're basically, did they do the murder? Did they try to have this guy lynched, maybe take him out themselves? Possibly, I think that's a great conspiracy to come away with. Either way, it was a benefit for the ADL and everyone else involved. I actually probably on both sides to have this. The interesting part of the Knights of Mary Fagan is you mentioned the picture of Leo Frank being hung.

Guys are sticking their head to try to get in the picture. They're not hiding their faces. They would take pride in this and that never happened. And by the way, Simmons also, when they started the KKK at that point, wrote proudly of the, or Nice of the Jews. He didn't have an issue with them. So once again, we just want to emphasize this KKK formation out of Mary Fagan anti-Semitism. The connections are not there. It's no secret that being sick, frail, and weak makes you easier to antagonize and manipulate.

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or simply set up an intro call with a coach to see how you can start investing your health for the long term. Thank you. I guess one of the arguments is, and E. Michael Jones talks about this, is there's no real consciousness for anti-Semitism in the South at the time, but it really seems like because of everything that happened with this trial, everything surrounding it, the press, the commutation, the, just everything, that this was really like the, the, the, the, just everything. That this was really like the genesis of hey these people these people have a lot of power these people seem to stick together and they want to be above the law maybe we uh maybe this is a group we need to look at uh the kKK or the other the the jewish community um well no i'm thinking the

southerners the southerners in general the consciousness this helps this helps to build the consciousness of, you know, the idea that Jews are just in it for themselves and they'll do anything to protect your own people. And very, you know, look, you read the Tom Watson stuff. I mean, he was very put a, put it back by the, the northern aggression in words in a way that it's all went down. Very much could be. I mean, but, but once again, the birth of a nation comes out, I just want to emphasize this. The birth of a nation comes out in 1915. And that's right out, you know, right around the lynching. it was after. It made a killing. It made a killing in Georgia. I think that I mentioned that

MGM basically was founded off the funds that were created from that movie. There were Jewish, you know, brothers that had the movie in the South. They said at, what is it, in 7,000 Jewish people in Georgia around the time of the trial. And there was a study done that it went from 4,000 in 1910 to 12,000 in 1937. So you're looking at 300 Jews a year coming into the area. They weren't slowing themselves down. But the sentiment could very well have been. Once again, the way that the press really tried to push this as, once again, we're backwards place, letting the black guy talk, everything. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. So I know this is a little bit forward now. Let's get to the pardon. So to even set up the pardon, the ADL forms 1913. Once again, this Livingston guy started it. in Chicago, but he had $200 in his office, and the real power was down there in Georgia. So it comes out of the Beney Brith situation.

And why did I just lose my train of thought? You were talking about, you said the ADL. We were talking about the pardon and you, we've got to start with the ADL. You know, luckily that doesn't happen to me in court, but if it does, I'll call up Pete. So the ADL is pushing the pardon for quite some time. The Georgia Board of Partons is like, no, this isn't happening. We've already had everything. You know, good luck.

However, in the 80s, suddenly there comes out, I think it was 83, comes out this guy, Alonzo Man. Now, Alonzo Man, if you remember way back from episode one, he was a witness in the trial. He's a 13-year-old boy that testifies that he's in the facility, leaves that day at 1130, said there were some people there. Couldn't recognize Mary Fagan if he saw it in front of him. He'd just started in first of April. It only worked two Saturdays, so he may or may not have seen Conley.

Suddenly in his 80s, he has a recollection that everything's changed and that Jim Connolly, he had actually seen him there carrying Mary Fagan over his shoulder and ran into the boy and said, hey, if you say anything, I'm going to kill you. So what's his kid do? He goes home, tells his parents, and they're like, let's see how things play out. That black man seemed really dangerous. So he goes and testifies at the trial, you know, not much in there. And like I said, 83 some years later, now he's got a change of his story.

Once again, the best part about, look, there's several books that perpetuate myths over the years. One of them talks about kill the Jew or will kill you. That was a phrase that happened. The first writing that that ever came out in was like 1965. So you go back to all the contemporaneous stuff. It's never there. that. Oh, there was a guy when he went to the courthouse, had a gun. Now, let's think back here. Who are you more afraid of? Are you really afraid of Jim Conley, who gets arrested on May 8 and

is incarcerated all throughout the trial, spends a year in jail after the fact? Are you really worried he's going to kill you in your family in the South? In Georgia? It doesn't make any sense. So with this, this new revelation, you know, the whole story comes about, the Tennessean writes It's a big article about it. Now the ADL is on the path. They send it back over to the board of pardons to do this. And they have Mr. Mann there with him to basically show off to the board about how this guy is it.

Now, I think he's senile, honestly, because when you read the transcript of that, his attorney is saying, hey, this happened. And he's like, I don't want. And I mean, he's not there. And the attorney's trying to give the answers. They turn him down. However, they come back a few years later and the board of pardons, I think, it just gets so unindated with the pressure that they actually, they do pardon him.

But this is important because, let me see if I could get to the actual pardon statement here. Let's go, I have it in my book here. So, because it's what's important is everyone, if you even watch on the ADL, the website, and they have a little thing about the ADL, the formation, the 100-year thing that they had, it talks about now he's been pardoned. But I think this is, oh, here we go. This is what they said. Without attempting to address the question of guilt or innocence and in recognition of the

state's failure to protect the person of Leo M. Frank and thereby preserve his opportunity to continue legal appeal of his conviction and in recognition of the state's failure to bring his killers to justice and as an effort to heal old wounds, the state board of pardons and paroles in compliance with its. It's constitutional statutory authority here by grants. Leo M. Frank, it pardoned. Now, they had denied it previously because he's not a live person. There's really nothing to pardon.

And I think that's the statute. So it almost seems like illegally they didn't do the right thing. But it's important to note there. They emphasized, the started out with, we're not talking about his guilt. This is simply we couldn't protect him. You took him out of the facility and you lynched him. Therefore, we're doing a posthumous pardon. That's it.

Okay. Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like the way they parade Biden around now, who's complete, you know, whose mind is completely gone. They bring this guy in. And, yeah, all of a sudden, you know, it's like, oh, it took him, what, 70 years to grow the nuts to, to say this, you know, it's like, now it's okay to say it, you know, it makes no sense.

You mean, you would think he would have, you know, after the Civil Rights Act, oh, now I'm protected. I mean, it's just, it's just ridiculous. Did we talk about hoaxes? We can talk about that. One is the bite marks or the kill the Jews or we'll kill you. That was kind of the first one. To start with that since I mentioned it.

The only way that they can trace any connection to that is evidently Luther roster or the defense attorney. At one point got a phone call preparing for trial and someone, you know, that said, kill the Jew or will kill you on the phone. And he's like, it didn't do anything about it. He didn't really care because who cares? So no one ever said anything about that. And it never, and I don't mean it that way, Pete, but that's funny. No, but I mean, once again, we have to, this is what's crazy.

And I think this is the problem with like even the ADL. They want to go back in time with today's standards to some extent, but not really. Because if we did that back then, I mean, once again, it's a Jewish man in Atlanta. He's going to be thought of as upper class compared to anybody else. So is that really, anyway, the point was that was never said you can't find it anywhere except for, you know, after the fact when people in the 60s are starting to write books about that. Another one was bite marks. I think someone had commented about was there ever bite marks. This is another crazy thing where, look, all the original materials.

there, the corner, when they testified, you know, from the autopsy, there was a lot they can actually do, especially science in 1913, the best that they could muster up. But they didn't have X-ray technology, Pete, and people have now said, oh, you look at the pictures, there was actually bite marks. And no, there's no bite marks. It looks like the pro-frank people trying to do something. I don't even really know where that goes, because they take teeth impressions. Once again, if these are there, you could have done it. By the way, there was a bloody fingerprint on one of the back doors, but they never, they could have asked Conley to take a fingerprint and match it, but they didn't. Interesting. Yeah. There's, I don't know if any other folk,

folks is, hoaxes. Folks is foes. Well, I mean, I guess really the only, the only thing to wrap up with is the fact that this was all used to empower and create an organization nowadays that is has international political power. Right. And yeah, I mean, is it the first of its kind like that in the United States? I think, I'm trying to think, I mean, it would definitely be the most powerful. There may have been Jewish organizations before that. I mean, B'nai Breath, but that's really just a secret society.

Well, the AJC was kind of, it was a, that's the Marshall had that. It's the American Jewish counselor. Yeah, something like, is that what it is? But they were, they were actually specifically tasked with trying to assimilate rich German Jews into the U.S. That was kind of their thing. And that's, that's where he had a lot of his money. But yeah. I mean, I take it, it's kind of like the NDACP, the SPLC, R-S-P-L-C-L-U, even, or the Rainbow Push

Correlation. Do you know what all those have in common? Do you know who started all of those? Leo Frank? I don't know. People who call themselves a certain background. Yeah. I know it's fascinating.

This is what I found off the ADL's website, which is, There was some videos they have and one of them is this what they claim that they're fighting against The one they found this out. This is why they this why they were created and I could play this video They might kind of try to strike you But it said fighting against the one form of prejudice could not succeed without battling all forms of prejudice Now that's what they said it stemmed from in 1913. Does that sound like they were worried about Jim Connolly's rights and hit the prejudice to him? Absolutely not. So you know this video's like a minute 40 or so i don't want to play it but if i did we could just

walk through all the false narratives that have been created uh because we know all the facts now and that's what's amazing about it they just they say oh and he was pardoned well he wasn't really i mean that's these are important little distinctions uh to know so um by the way did you did you get a chance i watched this documentary called defamation um did you have no you shared it with me i haven't had a chance watch it yet um it's really hard to find uh and And I finally found it and I ripped a copy. So if anybody needs it, we can probably post it up. And it's a, it's a Jewish Russian from Israel.

He decides to, hey, let's find out this whole thing about the ADL and stuff. It starts out, he's talking to his mom and she's just, she kind of rags on Israel and some other things. He follows a bunch of kids from Israel that go over to Germany to like, you know, Holocaust, memorial type of stuff. And it's fear porn the entire time. And I think that's, that's what I found out about. And then he goes to the ADL with Abe Foxman. And he goes, I want to do, I want to follow an incident that you have. Okay, that's fine one.

And so they're on there. Oh, yeah, this person, they had a, someone found a Nazi flag in their yard. So like, these are the things they're tracking. So at some point, and then he talked to Norman Finkelstein, which was interesting as well. He talked to a more orthodox Jew in New York. And the interesting part, especially the orthodox guy, was more along the lines of, this Zionism stuff, it's, what it does is it actually perpetuates anti-Semitism. And then you go and you see, what's your definition of anti-Semitism?

And it is so broad. Pete, it reminded me of the good old days of the Jesse Jackson, the Rainbow Push Coalition, where someone, I went to the University of Colorado. I'm out there. Coach McCartney, he's done. So they hire Rick New Heaisal. He comes in. He's not Bob Simmons, who was supposed to take over as a black man.

And so Jesse Jackson comes out there and he just tells you how horrible you are. And he tries to, basically, I'll be good for you newswise if you pay me off. And that's kind of what the whole thing is. So it's a very similar feel that it has to that. Well, the ADL does that too when, what's that basketball player? Kyrie Irving. Yeah, yeah. When he, part of his apology was writing a, he had to write a check to the ADL.

Yeah. I mean, and that's pretty much what we knew Jesse Jackson was doing. He would go in and he would basically say, look into a corporation and be like, you don't have enough black representation here, either get black representation or you can write us a check. Yeah. And that's pretty much what, I mean, where did they learn that from? Where do you learn that from? I mean, what I found with the big connection, like you watched that document and you think about the Leo Frank thing,

what came out of it, which was Leo Frank? which is there is a lot for us to fear. Now, one of the incidences that the ADL showed was this girl that said, oh, it was just a recent video. I saw she wakes up, her friend sends her text, and there on the chalkboard in the chemistry lab was a swastika. She was just in fear, Pete.

She was in fear. Now, I'm not a Jew, but things have happened to me, and I'm sorry, I just don't have the fear of every little thing. at high school like that and most people don't. But when these kids went and they visited Auschwitz, one girl is on camera talking to the guy and she's like, oh, I was this morning. This guy was over there and he started yelling Nazi at me in the heat.

He goes, I was there. He didn't. And she goes, yeah, I know. So, okay, that's a weird aspect for a teenage girl to do. But they instill the fear of everything around the corner is going to be harmful. And it's not healthy. It reminds me, you know, it was interesting. You talk about the Jesse Jackson.

and kind of the same idea of the blacks come out of the South. And there is a lot of fear. They're getting lynched a lot. But at some point, where are we going from here? Are we going to allow this to envelop our lives? And is it a healthy situation? I'm sorry to preach on on this, but this is kind of what you see now and this is what we have of criticism has to be.

And if you criticize in the wrong way, you're going to be labeled. And the label itself is the way that they can try to, well, censor you. Right. Yeah, it was, it really seems like they have their own history and they create it. I don't know if you've seen the Ben Shapiro history of Israel that's going around where he just basically gives the Israeli side on everything. You know, no mention of anything, any kind of, no mention of King David Hotel bombing, no, Urgon, no mention of Lehigh, no mention of the Levant affair, no mention of the USS Liberty, no mention of basically anything, anything, no mention of, he talks about how they acquired the Golan Heights in the 67, and it's like, you realize it that's like against international law,

you cannot get, you can't gain land by, by war anymore. And he, he, he, What? I just said, I don't know. That's not my thing. I'm learning more. But Dave Smith did break that down, and I thought it was very good. And he said one thing that I thought was actually great, which I've actually had a judge tell my client, which is, you know, you come here to swear the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Omissions are just as bad.

And that's what Ben failed to do, because you can't have this honest discussion. And by the way, it's so weird to see a guy in Congress. who's a Christian wearing an IDF uniform. You know, I'm German. Am I, I'd be, you know, that would not happen. But, you know, but, you know, but, um, yeah, it's, they're, I don't know how, you know, it's a lot of what you've seen this week is, um, how, how, they basically, they basically, want you to believe that Israelis are just good. They never do anything wrong. There are no settlements, no settlers. Settlers never kill kids just for fun, which they do. And kill Palestinian kids just for fun. They do. It's not human shields. It's, you know, not them throwing stones and hiding. No, it's they just, the settlers are the most radical of these groups. And of, of,

of the Israelis. And yeah, you don't get that. And, you know, lies by, lies by omission, if you're just going to tell, give your side of the story, um, I'm sorry,

you've, you've lost the right to be trusted. And as far as I'm, I mean, I've never trusted Ben Shapiro because for somebody who basically has made his fortune attacking identity politics, there's no bigger identity. politics issue than Zionism. I mean, Zionism is, it's a supremacy religion. And I was talking to a

friend of mine who grew up in a very strict Jewish family. She got out. She's one of the smartest people I know. She's one of the, she's one of the most anti-Zionist people you will ever meet in your life. And I told her, I said, if we could just get, if we just break people's minds from the Zionism, it would be great. And she said, you're still going to have to deal with the fact that Judaism, just Judaism, regular Judaism, is a supremacist religion. And as long as you have a group that has power, that has wealth, that believes that they're supreme to everyone else, you have a real problem. You have a real problem. You mentioned something that triggered me there, or not, or maybe think of something actually not trigger you trigger you

I get a good thing which is I've heard actually Ben and I've I've tried to do this myself which is you know arguing politics Ben Shapiro has said he tries not to argue them from a religious perspective okay let's talk about abortion or whatever you want to talk about because it doesn't it immediately alienate some people yet is there anything about this this current conflict that is not based in his religious perspective So he can't argue it from there. So there's been some really good coming to Jesus moments for me, at least with him. It's like, yeah, you're just, I, there's a lot of people out there right now.

There was a time when I would listen to him every once in a while, 2017, 2018, you know, when he was doing a lot of the takedowns of the growing woke at the time. And I remember him once saying, he said, I don't even consider people to be a Jew. who were born into a Jewish family. You're not Jewish unless you practice the faith. And he doesn't believe that. He doesn't believe that because there is, Zionism is not a, is not, these aren't religious people.

Most of them are atheists. They will be, they will be honest with you about that. Um, they pay very little, very little lip service to the Old Testament. They talk about the Talmud thing. then that's what they learn in Yeshiva.

That's what they learn in Hebrew school. And I mean, it's, he, I've caught, he's been caught in so many, if not out and out lies in so much inconsistency that he can't be taken seriously. He can't be taken seriously anymore. And with this whole thing, since this thing started, you just get to see how much of an emotional child he really is. because he is I mean he's

basically just throwing fits yeah he had had some tweet today I just the last bit of it he talks about assurance by all the right people that Jews ought not to defend themselves and I just replied like Jews or Israel what do you

because that to me is as part of the problem here you know America first suddenly turned into America first in line behind Ukraine in Israel. It's just, it's a weird concept for me coming from like pretty conservative upbringing to suddenly seeing this, I don't know, if the eyes are opened more, but it's a fascinating, a few few years for me. That's it. Yeah. All right. Well, I really appreciate this. This was fun. And also to get it to hear it from somebody who knows their way around a courtroom and had the mispleasure of being in law school. I'm sure there was a lot of good you took out of law school, but I'm sure there was a lot of

wasted time there, too, just like any other school. Like I said at the first line, at least my law school, they tell you, we want you to try to think like an attorney. And for me, that was, was helpful. So, yeah, once again, I really appreciate this. Look, what you can take away from this is if someone's bringing this Leo Frank thing up, now you at least have parts of this, you know, Well, like I said, when I first read the commutation, I'm like, oh, maybe this guy's, and then you go through it. And it's a, it's a slam dunk case that people have had to glom onto. And once again, why is this guy the person? Well, I think we've talked about it.

And it's to create, they got caught up with themselves. They pushed this thing too hard. And now they have to stick with it, which is fear porn. And you don't have to, you don't have to go down that route. You could easily say, Leo Frank was a pervert Jew. Just like they just like his his fellow, the fellows who went down there to, to defend him. Yeah. That, you know, he's a pervert.

And maybe they did. Let's leave that alone. Thank you, Tyler. I appreciate it. I'm scars.