The Pete Quiñones Show - Pete on a Livestream with Last Things - 'After Libertarianism'

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

64 MinutesPG-13Last Things asked Pete to come on and talk about everything how people end up on our side of the Great Divide.Last Things on YouTubePete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Beacon South Quarter, Dublin, where the smart shoppers go. Two hours free parking, just off the M50, exit 13. It's a Black Friday secret. Keep it to yourself. If you want to support the show and get the episodes early and ad-free, head on over to freemambionthe-wall.com forward slash support. There's a few ways you can support. support me there. One, there's a direct link to my website. Two, there's subscribe star. Three, there's

Patreon. Four, there's substack. And now I've introduced Gumroad, because I know that a lot of our guys are on Gumroad and they are against censorship. So if you head over to Gumroad and you subscribe through there, you'll get the episodes early and ad-free, and you'll get an invite into the Telegram group. So I really appreciate all the support everyone's giving me, and I hope to expand the show even more than it already has. Thank you so much. All right. Greetings Anon's. I am joined today by a man to whom you all owe your allegiance and to whom you are all probably already quite familiar. Pete Kannonia's. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing good. How are you all to? I'm doing really well. Pete and I had had the pleasure of getting to meet one another at the OGC event this year.

So I've been meaning to get this, get this in the books for a while. And Pete was generous enough to agree to come on because you are the podfather. You are a very busy man. I'm sure you have a very packed schedule. Well, I think that Adam Curry might have something to say about that. He calls himself the podfather. Yeah, yeah. Allegedly he created podcasting. Oh, really?

Yeah, but I appreciate that. Thank you. I mean, last month was seven years of podcasting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, you're my podfather, regardless. So a few of the things that I wanted to chat with you about today were, I think one of the things that you're particularly known for, Pete, at least in this sphere, is somebody who kind of came to this side of things from libertarianism. I don't know if anybody else, did you get this, Pete? my my title for this stream is a clever nod to the uh paul godfrey book after liberalism

but it's after after libertarianism i didn't even pick up on that but i apologize that's okay don't worry about it probably i'm probably the only one who's who's pleased with myself about it or happen to notice um i do think believe me i do things like that all the time I throw Easter eggs out there just to see if people will get them. And a lot of times it's just like

I'll tell my wife I'll be like I'm doing this hoping that this will happen and she'll be like well why and I'll be like because it amuses me and she's like that's just so weird. I mean if nobody picks up on it

it just means that we're both like too clever for everybody else so it's it's it's win-win whether or not they get it um but i wanted to talk to you today pete a little bit about sort of um what i'd call kind of categorizing the converts and how it is people make their way into this space and my taxonomy um as far as i can tell is as follows. I'm going to kind of give you the three main groups as I see them. And then I'd love to hear from you and you can tell me if you think I'm skipping over everybody, anybody or if this is an oversimplification. But I would say sort of the three main groups of people that become sort of dissident,

dissident thinkers. Group one would be first ex-libertarians, possibly best exemplified by yourself. And I would say that I mentioned this group first because I think that in a lot of ways they have the least distance to travel. Curtis Jarvin claims to have been sort of an ex-libertarian. There's that quote from Oren McIntyre, which is like the first sip from the cup of government malpractice will make you a libertarian, but the final sip will make you a monarchist, which I think he's grifting off of another quote. So there's the ex-libertarian group, and then group two. Group two is maybe the most, maybe the largest,

which would be just sort of the ex-normi-cons. And I actually think Orrin McIntyre might be kind of a good persona to think of when considering this group. These are just sort of people that were card-carrying members of the Republican Party answered to the label of conservative. And then one way or another kind of stumbled into this space, discovered that conservatism is in a lot of ways a mug's game, and kind of exited that into more reactionary politics.

And then group three, and this is a group that I was really a part of, is just ex-liberals. These are sort of people that sometimes I feel like I hit a warb zone like in Mario Brothers and I like I skipped I skipped a libertarian phase. I skipped a conservative phase. I just hopped directly from liberalism to kind of the dissident world. And I don't have a sense of how common that is really. you know, having bypassed all of that.

And I certainly kind of made my exit from liberalism before, I think, progressivism was kind of fully, reached its full maturation. And I've never met anybody who really considered themselves, you know, capital P progressive that have entered this space. I only know sort of classical liberals that ran for, were fleeing progressivism and wound up here. So, Pete, what would you say to that kind of taxonomy? Do you think that that kind of describes the primary groups,

or do you see other people coming from elsewhere? Yeah, I think that the most would come from conservatism would make a lot of sense. What I also hear from people who say they come from conservatism is they stopped at the libertarian station for a little while, you know, just for a stop, most of them. They didn't get caught up in it for over a decade like that did. And yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense. I think it's pretty obvious when you like,

you meet someone who's libertarian who came over here. They tend to keep some of their priors in that there's a tendency towards purity spiraling. I think the conservatives are a little more open to discussion, a little less rigid. I just don't know that many liberals. I mean, I know Dave, you know, distributist, which is obvious by, you know, I think,

It's easy to tell where someone came from. Just look who they're arguing with on X. Yeah. So I'm always going after libertarians. Dave's always going after liberals and leftists. And, you know, Orrin is really going back and forth for going back and forth with Normicons. That's true. Yeah.

Yeah. I think the old allies become the new enemies. Now, when you say progressive, are you like Bernie, would a Bernie bro be progressive? Where are you coming from? That's a good question. I guess when I mentioned progressive, I'm just thinking of somebody that went from completely like throwing the party line. Like I don't, I would say I made, I kind of made my way here right around 2016. right as Trump was getting elected.

And I think part of what maybe made me move more quickly in this direction or sort of expedited my journey is just the Trump derangement syndrome that I was noticing amongst everybody. I just noticed I was kind of having a lot more schadenfreude about the election than anybody else I knew. And I don't, and I know a lot of people that were liberal, and that was the kind of the choke point where they turned. I don't know anybody who like suffered Trump derangement syndrome for four years

and then like mid-Biden presidency decided to flip. You know, like since progressivism has sort of been in its ascendance, its cultural ascension, and I'd say a lot of Bernie Bros probably fit that description. Like chop out trap house would be Bernie Brough. right and they're definitely i would categorize them as as progressive um but yeah i don't think since i think it's had the level of hegemony that it has i have not seen anybody fall completely out of favor with progressivism and end up as a as a reactionary they see there seems to be a like a certain um finite number of kind of windows or escape hatches that that people had

And if you didn't, if you didn't kind of leave, leave then, you weren't going to leave at just any, any point, if that makes sense. There's so much rugby on Sports Extra from Sky. They've asked me to read the whole lad at the same speed I usually use for the legal bit at the end. Here goes. This winter sports extra is jam-packed with rugby. For the first time, we've got every Champions Cup match exclusively live, plus action from the URC, the Challenge Cup, and much more.

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Visit drinkaware.com. Yeah, I look at guys like Jimmy Dorr, who haven't become dissidents, but they are definitely progressives who can see a lot of our arguments. And Glenn Greenwald as well. I know a couple of Bernie bros who came all the way over to a hard ride, even becoming extremely racial. I think that might be an easy path because if you're a true Bernie bro, you're against immigration and you understand immigration is anti-worker, anti-native worker. And I think once if you start coming over to our side and you already have that opinion, then you see immigration. now you can see immigration as an attack on on heritage America.

So I can see how that could turn some people racial and white, you know, white nationalist kind of way. But the, mostly what I see is people just talk about that, you know, they were conservatives. They did a quick stop in,

in libertarianism. And then they made the jump. And, you know, I was, I guess I started calling, myself a libertarian around 2008. But it, um, it took me until really after 2020 and just realizing that people aren't going to choose to be free. They're going to choose to be fed and choose to be led.

That, um, you know, and I had, and I had a friend of mine who I really like and he said, you know, we just, we can't have a libertarian dictatorship where we force everybody to be free. You know, and And then in 2020, I'm like, I started rethinking that. And I'm like, really? And I know it goes against first principles, but maybe you have to do that. I don't know. But you can't force people to be free. People are going to choose what they want.

I think it just comes down to the fact that the overwhelming majority needs to be ruled. And it's just a matter of, you know, the right people, the right people ruling. and also, you know, the right culture. And what culture is conducive is conducive to people being led and being told what to do in many cases. I have a friend who, you know, she said that when you read, like, Gentile is the Fascist Manifesto, and then you read, like, Marx, and you, when you marry the two,

because that's pretty much how you kind of, of you understand what Marx is saying about, you know, about how industrial states are going, what they're going to turn into. And then you're just like, okay, well, then what we have to do is we just have to figure out a way to, figure out who,

what people's best way to contribute is and set them down that path and even educate them towards that. You know, the idea that you educate, that everybody gets the same education is just absolute nonsense. You know, people would be much better off if guidance counselors were truly guiding you and seeing what you were best at and then guiding you down that path and then having programs to plug people into that and plug them into society so that, you know, your culture. they can fit into the culture well. And, you know, ever since I thought about that, because, you know, I've read Marx extensively, read Lenin, Bolsheviks,

and I agree with probably, like, 85 to 90% of Marx. But it just doesn't, the solutions are just awful. And, you know, you can't, you can't deracinate people from their history. You're just, there's, the solution is to, it destroys some,

destroy individual people's histories, destroy families, destroy groups. And then, you know, once you realize, well, it may be the best way to organize groups is to do it by literally sitting down and figuring out, all right, this person's going to be best as a soldier, this person is going to be best as a factory worker, this person is going to be best as an engineer. This person is testing high off the chart. it's we need this person doing we need to have this person doing whatever

you know we need to evaluate people and I think that's a way to run a that's the way to have water it's a way to have a civilization and just randomly plugging people into a plug in play system where they they decide all on their own

after being inundated with advertising and propaganda what they want to be. Maybe that's not the best system for having civilization. And I know that flies in the face of everything that we, that we're about. And so God's honest truth. I don't even know how I got here from what your question was. That's fine.

I was about to bring it back around, actually, I guess, because speaking of, I guess, you know, guidance counselors and personality and fitness tests. I was curious if you notice, I mean, given the fact that people can come from these very different backgrounds and granted maybe something like, you know, conservatives is our biggest sort of pool from which to draw from. But, you know, given that there are liberals, there are conservatives, they're libertarians, there are people, you know, there's some amount of people from pretty much across the entire political spectrum that have made their way here. Is there any

characteristic or characteristics that you like notice as a commonality? Like is there one sort of distinguishing feature, other than all of us obviously being like, you know, physiognomy, quite handsome that you say to yourself, oh, that guy's going to be open to this stuff. Or he's a, you know, I'll see him here in another

in another year, just given who this person is, personality was. Well, I mean, I would, just from my experience, there are a lot of people who are very open to being led.

And I don't mean that in a bad way. They almost ask to be led. And it's not something that we're, it's kind of hard to be at that stage right now. You know, we're still under occupation. And really any kind of movement, you know, people want to accelerate right now. people want to see real change. You know, you just look at England. You have all of these, you know, protests going on, burning,

going into migrant hotels and setting them on fire, chasing the migrants out of there, attacking migrants. I mean, absent a Vanguard, you know, a Mosley type who can speak for them and negotiate for them, really nothing, you're not even going to have incremental. you're not going to have incrementalism because they're occupied. You know, they're occupied by the global American Empire and the Judeo-American Empire. And there's nothing for them. There's no, they have no remedy.

There's no one they can appeal to and say, look, this town, one in three women has suffered sexual abuse from people who are not British. Please help us. And just by bringing that up, they're the bad guy. If they go on Twitter, if they go on Twitter, if they go on social media and they start complaining about it, they can get arrested and do a couple of years in jail while rape. roamed the streets and are maybe told to go to counseling. You know, and their counseling may be at their mosque.

So I think people, the one thing that I see about people coming over to this side is they're looking for answers and they're looking for solutions to big, to like the big picture problem. But we don't have the big, we don't have the answers to the big picture problem. So when you break it down and you start saying, okay, this is what we can do now. You know, join an old glory club chapter.

Concentrate on politics locally. Concentrate, maybe start a garden and grow food. If you're in a, if you're in a hyper blue area and you're not comfortable, maybe leave. They don't want that. they want the big picture they want

well when are we going to tear this all down and I get that and I want that too but that is that's generational I mean it's going to it took

it took us this long to get here because of technology and especially information technology maybe it won't take us as long to get through it and get past it, but it's not going to happen overnight. And that's the one thing that I see is people, they want to stop. A lot of people almost talk like they want to stop their lives because, well, if I try

to do anything and I try to be, you know, build, you know, buy a bunch of land or something like that, well, they're just going to come and destroy it. And it's like, well, that's not even remotely logical. I mean, the odds of that happening are infantessimal. I mean, the fact that you have to bring up like Waco and Ruby Ridge, you're just proving, you're just bringing up the exception, which proves the rule that, I mean, they, you can actually, if you want to, you can actually build,

build something now that is sort of like something you might want in the future. One question that that brings up for me, Pete, is, why is it do you think that our circumstances have not generated leaders? And I guess to make a comparison, to obliquely make a few comparisons, if you look at a figure like Mussolini or a certain Austrian painting, These were sort of leaders that arose out of the middle class in many respects. And I know a lot of people, I know you've done a few shows somewhat recently about like the PayPal Mafia. You know, maybe Elon and Teal have Vance as their guy to some extent now on Trump's ticket.

But I guess that that might be analogous to like, I don't know, those are sort of like, German aristocrats after World War II. That's the German, you know, aristocracy as opposed to anybody coming out of the middle. So what's different about our circumstances compared to somewhere like, you know, post-World War I, Germany or Italy, that does not generate these sort of, does not generate leadership from the middle in that way? There's so much rugby on sports extra from Sky. They've asked me to read the whole lad at the same speed

I usually use for the legal bit at the end. Here goes. This winter sports extra is jam-packed with rugby. For the first time we've got every Champions Cup match exclusively live, plus action from the URC, the Challenge Cup and much more. Thus the URC and all the best European rugby all in the same place. Get more exclusively live tournaments than ever before on Sports Extra. Jampack with rugby.

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for your unique feet. If you want to free your feet in joints from pain, improve balance or correct alignment, book a free foot assessment at footsolutions. .i or pop-in store today. Foot Solutions, the first step towards pain-free feet. On the many days of Christmas the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee, a visit with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse. Enjoy seven floors of interactive exhibitions

and finish your visit with brett taken views of Dublin City from the home of Guinness. Live entertainment, great memories, and the gravity bar. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the facts, be drinkaware. Visit drinkaware.com. Well, I mean, you said it.

It's post-World War I. Europe's in chaos. We're not in chaos. I mean, we are. We're in existential chaos. But they're in literal chaos. They tried to starve Austria to death after World War I. They said that if they didn't starve them,

they hoped that they would get sick and that they would grow up to be frail, that their children would grow up to be frail. You're coming out of a, you're coming out of the Great War, and there's basically any semblance of the Ancian regime is gone. So it's something new. So those who had the will amongst the chaos and the ashes of World War I to rise up, and especially, you know, when it comes to Germany and Italy and say, you know, we are a proud people. we you know our our history traces back you know traces back thousands of years unlike you know places like the united states where that's a rallying cry here you know and what i said when i said that when i said earlier that we have the ability to build locally and actually build and make ourselves

you know, make our lives more comfortable, that's the danger. The danger is that you, when you're building locally, you can't forget that why are you doing this? You're doing this because there's this greater danger out there that's going to grow and if it isn't attacked. So, you know, and then, you know, I'm looking. at John's comment here, think about how many lions there were after World War I. I mean, the National Socialists were fighting, you know, communists in the streets, like gunfights,

and they're killing each other. These were people who fought in their trenches in World War I, just some of the toughest men that ever lived. I'm not like that. I don't think you're like that. I mean, John Slaughter might be like that. I think John's definitely a lion. Yeah. But the, when you look around and you, you know, there are groups, there are movements out there who are like, we're just going to do just like the NSDAP. And, you know, we're going to, it's just going to be us.

Any other movement that tries to raise up, we're going on the right, we're going to destroy them because they're going to destroy them. because there can be only one. And I'm like, you're comparing yourself to people who fought in the trenches of Europe and killed people. And you can't even find a girlfriend. Pete, I think I take your point,

but I guess a counter theory to that, and I think maybe both of these are sort of operative would be yeah we're certainly not the same the same people we are not made out of metal we aren't forged in war in that same way but how does something like technology factor into that you know if you thinking again of those sort of heroes that came out of that emerged after world war one it was a lot of sort of you know street level protests and rallies and kind of grassroots momentum that brought a lot of people into power. You don't have mass communication, you don't have the internet. There's, I suppose, less means for power to silence. people like that in an era immediately following World War I as opposed to, you know, there was no deplatforming.

I mean, I guess they tried to de-platform those guys insofar as, you know, a lot of people tried to kill them. But that's a much more, that's a far blunter instrument than de-platforming somebody off of social media or what have you. I mean, do you think that there's one other perspective on that is just simply that, you know, technology is such that you can't really have leadership rising out of the middle in the way that you that they did in uh you know in the 1930s and 40s well sure you know so you know the nsdap they had to have their own printing press they had to have their own um their own little place where they were able to

print flyers and do things like that. But we have the internet right now. So there's no excuses for being able to, especially with Elon taking over Twitter. And yes, I know Twitter is not perfect, guys. I know. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Clutch your pearls a little more. But, you know, you can put a message out there and you can actually create narratives. Back then, the only people who were really creating narratives were the people who had control of the press. Now it's a lot easier. But the big problem is that you have to be able to organize and mobilize in real life. Most people live their lives online.

They think that what they're doing online is actually making a difference, and maybe it is. but you know something like the old glory club i think we we figured out that we social capital was probably more important than anything at this point so we need to build relationships and you know we need to build groups of people who you know trust each other and who'll go to go to the mat for each other and we'll support each other someone gets canceled something like that And I think that that's, there's the danger, but there's also a danger in having, being a part of a group. Because, you know, like not me and that you says down here, our civilization has been taken over by women's women and gays. The lions cannot thrive in a system that teaches violence and the people capable of it are anathema.

Well, yeah. I mean, we, we live in that. system of the um what my friend jason calls the devouring mother where you see men even men on our side who use feminine language when they go after you know it's like calling someone triggered is very feminine somebody somebody having a natural anger response it makes sense now if you're doing it If you're doing it to your enemy, sure, you're trying to make your enemy upset and everything like that. But it's still feminine. And so basically everything is about this person doesn't want to be insulted.

You can't speak poorly of people. You can't talk about race anymore. You can't talk about IQ. you, these are things that are just, you, they're forbidden. And until we have genuine reactions, you know, what my friend Jason calls, you know, the vengeful son, until the, we have a spirit of the vengeful son where he rebels against that mother who is smothering him and smothering everything he says and every act he does. and, you know, if he won, whatever, every examining and criticizing every intention that you have for every act that you take,

until we have people who are willing to fight back and just be like, no, fuck you, I don't care what you call me. You know, oh, you think I'm a fascist? Okay, I'm a fascist. I'm going to become whatever it is that scares you the most. Then, you know, we maybe see, but, you know, it comes back to what I said earlier. We are under an occupation. We are under an occupation regime that when you start talking like that, you immediately, immediately get attacked. So you immediately come under fire from that devouring mother.

and this regime is all about the devouring mother. I was going to say I am familiar with those two concepts that the devouring mother and the vengeful son. I actually think those are maybe two of the best. There's so much rugby on sports extra from Sky, they've asked me to read the whole lad at the same speed I usually use for the legal bit at the end. Here goes.

This winter sports extra is jam-packed with rugby. For the first time we've got every Champions Cup match exclusively live, plus action from the URC, Cup and much more. That's the URC and all the best European rugby all in the same place. Get more exclusively live tournaments than ever before on Sports Extra. Jam packed with rugby. Phew, that is a lot of rugby. Get Sports Extra on Sky for 15 euro a month for 12 months. Search Sports Extra.

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For dates and bookings, visit wonderlights.I.E. Concept concepts to come out of the DR in quite some time. So he deserves full credit for those. I'd love to have them on at some point and discuss those. I don't know if those are things he... pulled directly from Carl Young or if they're somewhat just sort of inspired by I'm I'm almost positive they came directly from you yeah yeah um I guess in some ways the the vengeful son uh or being being more aggressive puts me in mind of like the very early days

of it when when things were still categorized as the alt-right, you know, when you had something like Charlottesville or people were, I think, much more kind of belligerently and gleefully stepping inside the frame of the left. you know, I think people are more fox-like today in dodging accusations of fascism than they were in the early days of the counterculture. And I wonder if that was a kind of a necessary adaptation because, you know, I think a lot of those initial waves, kind of crashed and I'm not certain much came of it or if it is a bit of a kind of cowardly retreat that we've conducted since then.

I think everything has to start somewhere and usually when you were when you're in dire straits and when the enemy has gained an insane amount of power, your first move you know, the first move you try to make may fall flat or may get co-opted. That's, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that you're, you may be the first group that's like, okay, let's, you know, we understand this. All right, let's go at it now. Let's go. We're going to attack it head on.

And then you realize this is a freight train that you can't stop. And then it's like you step back and you're like, well, I mean, I don't know what to do. You know, what do we? We want to keep this going, you know, and God forbid, money starts rolling in because then that can easily become the main focus. If people are making income off of it was something that I said about a few years ago. there was this movement in libertarianism to take over the libertarian party and it was uh they called themselves

a misis caucus and when they were able to get enough money donated per month they immediately the person who headed it up they gave him a salary so he worked full time and then they celebrated that by saying okay great now our next goal is

to get this person a full-time job. And to get this person a full-time job. And I'm like, no, that's not the goal. You have an ideological movement, okay? Unless it's conquest all over again, or O'Sullivan's law, anything that's not explicitly right-wing is going to become left-wing. Anything that's not explicitly ideological will be co-opted

by managerialism. And they got co-opted by managerialism. And I fucking told them it was going to happen. And then it just and then it, you know, and at first I was all gung ho about it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, this is something to be a part of. I feel like I'm doing something. And then

you discover Burnham and you're like, well, shit. It's like, well, this isn't going to work. Yeah. This isn't going to work. You're not you're not even in the game. I mean, it's like you're, you've just taken over a political party, which by its very essence is bureaucratic, is bureaucratic.

The bureaucracy of it's going to win. The ideologues will be pushed out. That's exactly what happened. And I think that that's one of, that's another one of those things about the, when you see, when you read about the first all, you know, the first alt-right movement. And it was it title bomb who wrote that book, War for Eternity? It was about, um,

about Bannon, mostly about Bannon, but also talked about a lot of the guys on the, uh, on the original alt-right and how, you know, well, we have all right.com now and then someone like, you know, started a, um, an LLC. It's like, okay, well, it's over. It's over. Now it's just, now it's just managerialism, you know, so, I mean, that's how did it? I mean, is, is that because managerialism now is just so, totalizing and other kind of radical movements weren't up against a bureaucracy that was quite as this thick. I will say, Pete, you know, it is, I don't know if it feels this way to you. It certainly feels this way to me that it's, it is almost possible, impossible to measure success. I mean,

if you take, for example, like, you know, the old, the OG all right, people would, would sort of say oh well that we can lay that defeat because we did not um we did not fully measure the strength and the power of like the media propaganda machine and it was so especially after something like charlottesville it was just so quickly and easily inframed and the narrative was was shaped and it's the media that was the um that obliterated that sort of you know wave one But then Elon Musk buys Twitter and so people say, okay, well, wow, well, now we have arguably the most powerful media company in the world that's not, I mean, granted he's not, you know, it's not like we bought it, but he's not as hostile to us. Can we consider this having captured a castle or a victory? Is this some ground? And, you know, mold bug comes out with a, you know, know, Ray Mere piece saying, nah, this ain't nothing. Everybody, you know, even after something

as, as monumental as that, everybody's sort of still like, I don't know. Is that victory? Is that what victory tastes like? I can't tell. And, you know, it is, it's like battling fog sometimes to be able to say, you know, this is progress. Have you recently purchased a new vehicle from Frankine Volkswagen? If so, you may be at risk for an exciting condition, known as new car joy. Symptoms may include spontaneous smiling, sudden increases in confidence and uncontrollable urges to take the scenic route. If you experience any of these symptoms, don't worry.

The only known treatment is enjoying your new vehicle. Side effects may also include great value and exceptional customer service. Talk to a friendly professional at Frank Heen Volkswagen today and see if upgrading your car is the right prescription for you. Let's look at Charlottesville. All right. Let's go back to Charlottesville. I think this is a perfect example of what I said earlier.

I've talked to, I've had one person who was at Charlottesville on my show, or I think I've had more than one, but specifically I've talked about, but I've talked to a bunch of people at Charlottesville who were at Charlottesville privately. The first thing I always ask him is, okay, why did you think you could get away with that? Why did you think that you could get away with like the Tiki Torch? March. Why did you think you can get away with going there and mobilizing and everything? When you know there's a deep state that, you know, and almost to a man, they say, well, you know, Trump got elected and, you know, we felt like, you know, that was a sign. And, you know, it gave us false hope. And yeah, yeah, we're an occupied, we're fucking occupied.

We're occupied. you can't do bullshit like that. If you do bullshit like that, you're going to end up in jail. You're going to end up, you know, without, not be unemployable.

We're occupied. You do stuff, you shut up and do stuff privately. You organize privately. You don't advertise what you're doing. It's like,

I love when people are like, so what's, you know, what's the whole point of OGC? A glory club. It's like, well, I mean, come, you know, do you want to come to a, you know, have a basket weaving or something like that? No, no, I want you to tell, no. I'm not telling you. No, I'm not telling you. It's not something secret. It's just, you know, it's a fraternity. But still, why would we tell you? Why would we want every, you know, it's the whole idea of elite theory, too. You want. You want. You want the best people. You don't just want everybody.

That's why we can have 150 people at an event and consider it a glowing success and other people can get a thousand or 2,000 people to event. But nothing is said at that event. Nothing is accomplished at their event with one or 2,000 people. Nothing. It's just a rally. Maybe people are meeting people and maybe some good stuff will come out of that. But there's no organization.

And I just think that people, until people realize that if you're going to organize now, it has to be around, you can't, you have to understand your limitations. You have to understand where we are. You have to understand what you can literally get away with. because we're an occupied people. Okay?

Since 1945, the things we believe are criminal. Get us put on lists, things like that. Get us arrested. Get us. We get fired from our jobs. You have to be smart.

And I think that Trump getting elected, sent out a signal to people that, oh, sent out a signal to certain groups of people, oh, things are changing, things are changing, and now we can, you know, go out and say the things we want, and we can march and, you know, we can chant things about Jews in public, and, you know, Trump's going to have our back. Okay, how'd that work out? How did not being able to understand the spirit of the age? work out for you. I mean,

I just, I don't, I don't get it. You know, it's, it's another reason why I, I don't really have time for the people who,

you can't have a conversation with them unless they're talking about perfection, about how, how pure it has to be, how we can't do, no, incrementalism, we can't do incrementalism,

no, everything has to be switched on a dime, No, I don't care. The election doesn't mean anything. One isn't better than the other. Unless my guy is getting elected and my guy's throwing up Romans in public, you know, then nothing's going to change. Nothing's going to get better.

But you're a child. And you're just one of those people I talked about who just needs to be led. But right now, we're not building an army. You know, you need to find people who are leaders. So, I mean, I get frustrated by a lot of this because it, especially coming out of libertarianism where you think you know all the answers, where you can, you can diagnose most of the problems pretty perfectly. But your whole, all of your solutions, you have solutions like communists. It is literally, I will never stop comparing libertarians to communists because communists can tell you pretty much everything. What's wrong?

libertarians can examine something and tell you everything that's wrong but their solutions are completely impossible completely impossible right right it's all just it's you know ferry you're throwing around fairy dust and hoping that you know hoping that something's going to happen you know and both of them want to eliminate the state so it's like all right well i mean Okay, so sure. Do you think, Pete, do you, would you consider us, what would be a sign for you? And I'm assuming it's not Trump getting reelected. So what would be a, I guess, signal, a signifier for you that we were no longer occupied?

When, when will we know that we're no longer occupied if that's, if that's something that you could pinpoint? I think one really good signifier would be just an absence of any Zionist influence. I mean, I don't know what Israel is doing right now. It seems like it wants to destroy itself. Like it wants to bring down the wrath of, you know, the wrath of Islam upon it. Shia and Shia and Sunni, strangely enough. you know, then you have the city of London, which, you know, where all the money, all their money goes through. And they're, you know, with things that Powell has done to them, they're hemorrhaging so much that they're,

that Argentina is having to lend them, put their gold there so that they can have, you know, some kind of backing to lend off of. So, I mean, I think I think Zionist power is waning right now. It could come back. But, you know, still, people will point to Netanyahu getting 50 plus standing ovations

talking before Congress and say, see, see, we're still, we're occupied more than ever. They have more power than ever and not really see it for the K-Fave that it was. That's what it was, it was Stalin. I mean, it was, you know, you don't want to be the last, you're putting on an act so that it looks like these people are more powerful than they are. It's like, you know, saying that Ukraine is two weeks away from winning,

winning the war and defeating Russia. It's just all lives. Right. It's all lives. And I think their power is waning. And I think that that's when you start to see the occupation start to melt away. It's not something that's going to, I don't think it's something that can happen overnight like the Soviet Union. Just, you know, basically one day we're, you know, one night we're talking about, you know, the Berlin wall and the next, the next night, it's being.

torn down. I watched it on TV live. And I don't think it's going to happen that way, but it could. It could. And I think that's where, you know, our, we had a founding myth at one point that was, you know, that we, you know, we were a colony of this great, you know, this great empire and, you know, we won our independence. and it serves us well for a little while but an even more powerful narrative and founding myth

was given to us in World War II and that was that you know this terrible thing happened to this group of people and we helped to stop it and now that is anything that you say about

over representation of power, especially about a certain group that at Mils A, they wanted to exterminate them all. Even the ones in America. I don't know how they were going to do that. But it's one of the reasons why I concentrate so much on World War II. The myth that that was a good war has to be destroyed.

it's just all lies. Yeah. We need a new founding myth. Yeah. How about terrible things are happening to us and we have to stop? Well, you know, and then you get this other myth added on to it in 1964 and 1965 with the Civil Rights Act, which basically tells white people that they're the most evil people that ever lived.

And we have to give special rights. to this group that most of the white people alive had nothing to do with being here or had done anything ever too. I mean, think about how many, you know, my, you know, my first relative got here around 1810, 1820, have anything to do with slavery that lived in Pennsylvania. So it's like, we get, we get that.

people who, you know, people who emigrated through Ellis Island get, get this guilt trip about slavery and how it's like, no, it's, it's just too much. It's too much. We, when you're occupied by, when you're occupied by a narrative that's as powerful as the World War II narrative and the civil rights narrative. It's going to take a long time to break that. I do think they are kind of, you know, with the twilight of the boomers, both of those things are kind of fading

from an immediate cultural memory. And I think that's not something to underestimate. You know, there's not, people don't have, people aren't going to have family members that remember these things that are living. And I think when it's when it's just sort of the millennials in Gen Z, that's in some ways kind of a new canvas. Or at least I hope it is a new canvas.

In the last bit of time we have Pete, I did want to, I guess, circle back around a little bit to libertarianism. I guess we've been talking a lot about kind of strategies and blunders and and having the will to seize power. And I imagine on a more microcosmic level, you probably had a bit of a crisis point in your career. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand sort of your timeline correctly, you were fairly well established as sort of a libertarian thought leader and commentator. and voice of libertarianism, and then sort of mid-career, so to speak, you decided that you no longer wanted to accept that as a label. And I'm curious, I guess, I'm certainly curious what the reaction of your audience was or if you felt like, you know, you lost more followers than

you gained. But I'm also curious. just if you had any analysis paralysis. I mean, are you just somebody that you feel like you need to speak your mind? This is not something that was making sense to you anymore. And so you are going to communicate your skepticism, regardless of whether or not that meant sort of the, you know, the death of your career or all of your listeners

turning against you. I mean, how did you, how did you weigh that personally when you began to feel like this was no longer holding, holding your attention in the way that it was. I don't think I gave it much thought. I don't think much thought went into it. I just reacted.

And the thing that really put me over the edge was in 2021 when it was clear that the regime was using private companies to force vaccinations upon people. and I brought that up and I brought that up to you know a couple people who were actually bigger you know bigger than I

bigger libertarian voices than I were and you know the fight the the clap back on that of you know it's a private company bro they can do what they want that just made me realize that um that and

getting a very strong grasp on what social engineering is made me realize that libertarians had no answer for social engineering because they're anti-power, they're anti-violence, which is what is a state's monopoly on violence. I have a documentary called the monopoly on violence. What do you think helped you get clear on social engineering?

Was that something like a particular book or thinker that? It was a friend of mine. It was a friend of mine. She just hammered me with it. She just was like, there's no answer for this. And once I got that through my mind, I'm like, oh, yeah, they would look at social engineering, fighting back using your own social engineering or your own

propaganda as like immoral. I was like, oh, well, I mean, first of all, half these people are atheists, so I don't know where their morality comes from. It comes from actually property rights. That's a whole, that'd be a great rabbit hole to go down about how they tie property rights to morality. It's just absolutely incredible when you're dealing with materialists when it comes to that. But it was really understanding that they did not, they could not see that things that they believe in actually grew the state, like degeneracy. Like, you know, oh, well, I mean, as long as you can do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt another person. Okay, so degeneracy doesn't grow the state.

Got it. Open borders. Open borders doesn't grow the state. Got it. So basically their whole goal was to reduce the state or to eliminate the state. Yet half the things they advocated for grew the state. And it's just contradictions like that that I can't deal with. So I just started going down the path of just reading real politic and trying to figure out where I was at.

And I have my own opinions. You know, I probably stated some opinions in this that people disagree with. But, you know, I don't really, I like what Orrin says, what Orrin says. He says, basically the state, the job of the state is to have enough power to protect the culture of the people that exist within it. Yeah, a noble state or, you know, that's, that would probably be the definition of a worthy house, too, to, to John. to somebody like Charles Haywood. If a state's doing its job, it's protecting the culture of the people that it represents. Yeah, and you would expel people who are seeking to subvert that culture,

which is something that libertarians say they would do, but in essence, you know, it's also a generational thing. You know, okay, so you're going to, people are going to have kids in that culture. What happens if you, if you, if you, if you, if you could raise them as right as you want and they rebel against you, then you have to kick them out. You know, you can't have subversives in your culture. So it almost seems like I'm describing a utopia, which just can't exist. Well, utopia can't exist. So how do you govern?

There's your question. You can have a live and let live until managerialism takes over and then you have, you know, you have what you have now. Or you can base it around a real culture, a metaphysical culture as well. And you can see how that works. and you can base it around race, you can base it around religion, base it around whatever you want. But what we have now isn't going to work.

It's failed. And, you know, one of the reasons why, you know, I'm interested to see what the PayPal Mafia is going to do is because if they are intent on dismantling, this managerial state i want to see what wall that breaks down and what kind of opportunities that creates for the future for our people so i don't think the paypal mafia is coming to save us i don't think anyone's coming to save us but maybe they can make conditions a little better for us so that we can do our own thing yeah absolutely um amen maybe that's a good uh a great place to

stop because it felt like a good good final punch and we're right up at an hour but I do want to thank you very much for coming on. I hope we can do this again and I hope we get to see you again in the flesh definitely next year

if not sooner. I will definitely be at the Old Glory Club National Conference and see what happens in between now and then try not to do as much traveling anymore just because try to keep

things within driving distance airports are insulting to me yeah I'm not no argument for me either I hate to travel well all right Pete thank you again so much for your time

and you take care I appreciate LT take care thank you